PAOK fans waving banner "Macedonia is Greek" in Strumica

[MegaArgus1]

PAOK fans waving banner "Macedonia is Greek" in Strumica
Fifty fans of Greek club PAOK yesterday caused the incident in Strumica Stadium during the playing of the match between female teams of PAOK and Macedonian champion Our Taxi. Group Greek fans who apply for one of the biggest nationalists in the stands by displayied a banner "Macedonia is Greek".

http://www.kanal5.com.mk/(X(1)S(lxhtfjr1gxttew45m2vy0q55))/getImageThumbnail.axd?imgPath=upload/makedonijaegrcka.jpg&imgSize=600&cropH=400

The incident confirmed the Ministry of Interior. In a statement the police said: The time from 17.00 to 19.00 in Strumica in the stadium "Mladost", held an international qualifier for the Champions League - women between FC "PAOK" from Greece and FC "Our Taxi" by R. . Macedonia. Before starting the game by cheering group of "FC PAOK" was displayed prominent transparent white cloth measuring 10x3m in English "MACEDONIA IS GREECE", after which the reaction from UEFA delegate banner was hidden and 3 minutes ago Finally the match was again displayed, that caused outrage among local cheerleading group. After the UEFA delegate began with a video camera to record transparent and reaction of local cheerleading group, the banner was taken off again so the cheering group of FC "Our Taxi" waited outside until the provocation ceased. The delegate of UEFA ruled the cheering group of "FC PAOK" to be removed from the stands and be boarded buses, which later led to the pushing of individuals employed by the security agency "NIKOB", which redulted i police intervention to prevent further escalation. Bus fan group "FC PAOK" at 20:40 pm by border crossing Bogorodica left the territory of Macedonia. From the inspection it was determined that the fans of FC "PAOK" smashed 40 plastic chairs in the stands where they were staying.

[jerney]

The translation is barely readable..

[MegaArgus1]

The translation is barely readable..

blame google i don't have time to fix it but the intent of the writer is clear

[Queen B]

Paokara OLE :)

[Crn Volk]

They look pretty lonely there. Quite a spectacle.

[kabeiros]

They look pretty lonely there. Quite a spectacle.Even one Greek is enough

[El Gre]

FC "Our Taxi"

What kind of a name is that for a team?
So did we beat the taxicabs or what?

[Vojnik]

Paok, the team of the Prosfigas waving flags that say "Macedonia is Greece" but yet they have only been in Macedonia in the last 150 years. Lol

[El Gre]

^^

So only Iraklis and Aris can waive flags that say Macedonia is Greece i suppose.

Iraklis established in 1908 from Thessaloniki
Aris established in 1914 from Thessaloniki.

Many natives also support PAOK as well, they are not strictly supported with people with roots from Asia Minor.

And finally to quiet down the MacedoSlavs

There is a team that was established in 1928 and they have the strangest name of all

MAKEDONIKOS FC!!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makedonikos_F.C.

[Vojnik]

None of those fans can wave flags saying "Macedonia is Greece" if they are from today's Thessaloniki.

[Crn Volk]

^^

So only Iraklis and Aris can waive flags that say Macedonia is Greece i suppose.

Iraklis established in 1908 from Thessaloniki
Aris established in 1914 from Thessaloniki.

Many natives also support PAOK as well, they are not strictly supported with people with roots from Asia Minor.

And finally to quiet down the MacedoSlavs

There is a team that was established in 1928 and they have the strangest name of all

MAKEDONIKOS FC!!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makedonikos_F.C.

Don't the Athenians refer to the supporters of these clubs as Bulgarians??

[kabeiros]

Us ''prosfyges'' will kick your ass, if you ever try to invade Greece with your best friends, the Turks... We have now returned home and we are ready to defend it at all cost!

[kabeiros]

Don't the Athenians refer to the supporters of these clubs as Bulgarians?? Yes, it is used as an insult

[Crn Volk]

Us ''prosfyges'' will kick your ass, if you ever try to invade Greece with your best friends, the Turks... We have now returned home and we are ready to defend it at all cost!

You may be able to take us on, but the Turks...that's another story

[Crn Volk]

Yes, it is used as an insult

But why do they call you Bulgarians and not some other insulting name?

[kabeiros]

You may be able to take us on, but the Turks...that's another storyLOL

[El Gre]

None of those fans can wave flags saying "Macedonia is Greece" if they are from today's Thessaloniki.

Iraklis was established in 1908 thats almost 20 years before the asia minor Greeks arrived!!

Was that team established by 'ethnic macedonians? Why would an 'ethnic macedonian' name a team after a Greek demi god ????
Was it Turks ? Was it Jews? Cmon who was it?

Answer the question , which ethnic group established a team called Iraklis in Thessaloniki in 1908??? Cmon its time to sweat , toy soldier cant save you here.

The year is 1908 , 20 years before your scapegoats the prosfiges arrived and there is a team called Iraklis in Thessaloniki . Now what? Go back into your corner where you belong.

[El Gre]

But why do they call you Bulgarians and not some other insulting name?


Well its very simple zaspan. They cant call us Macedonians to insult us because Macedonians are Greeks so its quite logical to use Bulgarians!!!!

[Crn Volk]

Well its very simple zaspan. They cant call us Macedonians to insult us because Macedonians are Greeks so its quite logical to use Bulgarians!!!!

Why logical? Why not call you Turks or Albanians?

[kabeiros]

But why do they call you Bulgarians and not some other insulting name? Because Bulgarians were our enemies (in 2nd Balkan War and WWII), it is a common trend in Greece to insult opposing fans as non Greeks - this proves that we consider our ''Greekness'' something to be proud off and any foreign influence as something to look down on. We are still ethnocentric, despite the enormous anti-nationalistic leftist propaganda of our governments...

[Crn Volk]

Because Bulgarians were our enemies (in 2nd Balkan War and WWII), it is a common trend in Greece to insult opposing fans as non Greeks - this proves that we consider our ''Greekness'' something to be proud off and any foreign influence as something to look down on. We are still ethnocentric, despite the enormous anti-nationalistic leftist propaganda of our governments...

Now I think you're sweating. They call you Bulgarians because they know you are not Greeks, but Grkomani......

BTW, can you tell me how FK Makedonija was founded in 1941, before the Socialist Republic of Macedonia was even in existence?

http://www.eu-football.info/_club.php?id=1501&nm=1826

[Midori]

Us ''prosfyges'' will kick your ass, if you ever try to invade Greece with your best friends, the Turks... We have now returned home and we are ready to defend it at all cost!

Huh? Turks aren't our friends.

[kabeiros]

Huh? Turks aren't our friends.
Sorry, Pigeon excluded :)

[Crn Volk]

Huh? Turks aren't our friends.

Politically and strategically they are, and all major political parties in Macedonia agree with this. The people however may differ in opinion.

[kabeiros]

Now I think you're sweating. They call you Bulgarians because they know you are not Greeks, but Grkomani...... Then, how come they call even the ''prosfyges'' Bulgarians? Are Anatolian Greeks Grkomani, too???


BTW, can you tell me how FK Makedonija was founded in 1941, before the Socialist Republic of Macedonia was even in existence? I don't care when your pseudo-nation was invented

[kabeiros]

Politically and strategically they are, and all major political parties in Macedonia agree with this. The people however may differ in opinion. I told you so, Pigeon

[Crn Volk]

Then, how come they call even the ''prosfyges'' Bulgarians? Are Anatolian Greeks Grkomani, too???

I don't care when your pseudo-nation was invented

As El Gre stated, the club was founded before the prosfyges arrived, so I guess they are excluded from the Bulgarian tag. The are instead referred to as prosfyges, because that's was they are - refugees, outsiders...

[Midori]

Politically and strategically they are, and all major political parties in Macedonia agree with this. The people however may differ in opinion.

Only stupid people believe that allying with Turks against Greeks is a good thing.

[kabeiros]

As El Gre stated, the club was founded before the prosfyges arrived, so I guess they are excluded from the Bulgarian tag. The are instead referred to as prosfyges, because that's was they are - refugees, outsiders... No, PAOK was founded in 1926, after the Anatolian Greeks arrived (the PAO-K means ''Konstantinoupoliton'' = from Constantinople) and Athenians call PAOK, Aris and Heracles fans Bulgarians. We call Panathinaikos and Olympiakos fans Albanians :D
Our grand-fathers were GREEK refugees, indeed

[Crn Volk]

Only stupid people believe that allying with Turks against Greeks is a good thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Macedonia%E2%80%93Turkey_relations

[Crn Volk]

No, PAOK was founded in 1926, after the Anatolian Greeks arrived (the PAO-K means ''Konstantinoupoliton'' = from Constantinople) and Athenians call PAOK, Aris and Heracles fans Bulgarians. We call Panathinaikos and Olympiakos fans Albanians :D
Our grand-fathers were GREEK refugees, indeed

I was taking about Iraklis

[Midori]

For example Hungarian-Turkish friendship sounds even more reasonable since at least half of Hungarians know that we're Ural-Altaic cousins.

Lol.. Hungarians have NOTHING in common with Turks. Except maybe the origin of their language.


typical macedonian thinking…to who close or not for what to prove???? not geographically not biologically…I am the closest to my friends regardless of origin…if the turks are honest in their friendship with us I can consider them as the closest …what to think to bulgars and greeks they don’t show any sign of respect towards us and cannot expect from me more than what they show for me

I meant genetically and culturally. I can be friends with a Chinese person, doesn't mean Macedonians are related to the Chinese.

[Crn Volk]

In the Balkans, an enemy of your enemy is your friend, so Turkey is Macedonia's friend.

[MegaArgus1]

In the Balkans, an enemy of your enemy is your friend, so Turkey is Macedonia's friend.

the turks are our friends indeed not because they like us but because our enemies are their enemies as well..we can hope the best for the serbian inclination …the bulgars and greeks will remain our foe for at least 300 years or more

[MegaArgus1]

Do they? Besides, we seem to be doing that anyway...
he probably meant albanians turkey is secular country and do not impose islam to anyone if they really wanted to they had 500 years to do it but they didn’t…….it was only a choice by some

[Midori]

turkey is secular country

Don't tell me you really believe that..

[Partizan]

Lol.. Hungarians have NOTHING in common with Turks. Except maybe the origin of their language.

Ask that to them:
diKFD7rgS_8

y7wxm7xBDgA

They can be with zero Turkic blood(however it's proved people from South-Western Hungary are direct descendants of Cumans) but they claim to be Hunnish raiders at least.I don't know you but I've been to Hungary.


Don't tell me you really believe that..

Haven't you heard about Atatürk? :rolleyes:

[tEhSaint]

None of those fans can wave flags saying "Macedonia is Greece" if they are from today's Thessaloniki.

http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/angry-no-l.png

[Vojnik]

Then, how come they call even the ''prosfyges'' Bulgarians? Are Anatolian Greeks Grkomani, too???

No, you Prosfyges that are the majority in Salonika are decendents of Christian Turk speaking refugees from Anatolia with no connection to Macedonia at all. So no, yous are not Grkomani by definition.

The Christian Turks first arrived and settled in Aegean Macedonia in 1923, they came in there thousands which their decendents now make up the strong majority in Northern Greece.
http://macedoniantruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/105-2.png

This is why it is extremely silly that a bunch of people who are new arrivals to Macedonia go to football matches in the Republic of Macedonia and provoke us with your signs stating that "Macedonia is Greece" when we Macedonians have been here much longer then you so called 'Greek Macedonians'

[Midori]

Ask that to them:
diKFD7rgS_8

y7wxm7xBDgA

They can be with zero Turkic blood(however it's proved people from South-Western Hungary are direct descendants of Cumans) but they claim to be Hunnish raiders at least.I don't know you but I've been to Hungary.


http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=764504&postcount=38

I'm part Hungarian and I agree with him.

[Partizan]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=764504&postcount=38

I'm part Hungarian and I agree with him.

Show comments of Magyar the Conqueror too ;) Or Arrow Cross,Vanguard...HungSanskrit was alone here among Hungarians :)

[Midori]

Show comments of Magyar the Conqueror too ;) Or Arrow Cross,Vanguard...HungSanskrit was alone here among Hungarians :)

Hungarians don't see you as brothers, get over it. If you were Christians it would be a different story.

[Partizan]

Hungarians don't see you as brothers, get over it. If you were Christians it would be a different story.


The right-wing Jobbik party and its president Gábor Vona are uncompromising supporters of Turanism and Pan-Turkism (The ideology of Jobbik considers Hungarians as a Turkic nation.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Turanism

Jobbik is third biggest party in Hungary.

Hungary isn't like Azerbaijan to us of course but unlike other European countries,they have a sizeable people who claim similar roots to us.

Hungarians=\=HungAhmedinejad(oops sorry Aryan aka Sanskrit :D)

[Midori]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Turanism

Jobbik is third biggest party in Hungary.

Hungary isn't like Azerbaijan to us of course but unlike other European countries,they have a sizeable people who claim similar roots to us.

Hungarians=\=HungAhmedinejad(oops sorry Aryan aka Sanskrit :D)

Well, those people are silly and delusional. Hungarians are much more related to Germans than to Turks.

[Partizan]

Well, those people are silly and delusional. Hungarians are much more related to Germans than to Turks.

Silly or not,they are more than %15 of Hungarian population.Not to forget there are people aware of their Ural-Altai roots in other parties as well however only Jobbik is ideologically Turanist.

BTW Turkish=\=Turkic,of course their Turkicness come from Idel-Ural(Chuvashia today) however Turkic in Turkey mostly comes from Transoxania/Greater Khorasan.

[Mordid]

Well, those people are silly and delusional. Hungarians are much more related to Germans than to Turks.
Hungarians are genetically very ''Central European'' and definitely closer to Germans than to Turks. The only thing they have in common is language.

[Siberyak]

Silly or not,they are more than %15 of Hungarian population.Not to forget there are people aware of their Ural-Altai roots in other parties as well however only Jobbik is ideologically Turanist.

Turks are more than 15% of the Hungarian population? Source?

[Midori]

Turks are more than 15% of the Hungarian population? Source?

He meant Jobbik supporters


Hungarians are genetically very ''Central European'' and definitely closer to Germans than to Turks. The only thing they have in common is language.

Of course. They look different as day and night ffs, how can they say they're related in any way :p

[Partizan]

Hungarians are genetically very ''Central European'' and definitely closer to Germans than to Turks. The only thing they have in common is language.

Where I mentioned genetics? :picard1:

I just mean that,there are many Hungarian people(mostly JOBBIK fans) who proud with Hunnic and Magyar heritage.Feeling is enough.


Turks are more than 15% of the Hungarian population? Source?

:picard1: :picard1: :picard1: :picard1:

It seems you didn't even read my post or you're just trolling.

I mean,supporters of JOBBIK party who supports pan-Turanism makes up more than %15:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobbik


Jobbik's interpretation of Hungarian nationalism also includes the ideology of Turanism ideology which stresses the alleged origins of the Hungarian people in the steppes of Central Asia ("Turan") and the affinity and origin of the Hungarians with Asian peoples such as the Turkic people, Japanese people, Korean people, Huns, and the ancient people of Sumer[45] The idea of the necessity of "Turanian brotherhood/collaboration" was borrowed from the "Slavic brotherhood/collaboration" idea of Panslavism.[46] Therefore Jobbik leader Gábor Vona favors Hungaria turning away from the West (including the Euro-Atlantic alliances) and towards the "East", to form a "Turanian alliance" whose "Western bastion" Hungary should become.[47]


It's funny a "part"-Hungarian/Macedonian,a Russian and a Polish discuss with me about how Hungarians feel.I don't think most of Hungarians would be bothered as much as those guys :lol:

[Siberyak]

Where I mentioned genetics? :picard1:

I just mean that,there are many Hungarian people(mostly JOBBIK fans) who proud with Hunnic and Magyar heritage.Feeling is enough.



:picard1: :picard1: :picard1: :picard1:

It seems you didn't even read my post or you're just trolling.

I mean,supporters of JOBBIK party who supports pan-Turanism makes up more than %15:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobbik

I'm not trolling. I miss read your post.

[Midori]

Where I mentioned genetics? :picard1:

I just mean that,there are many Hungarian people(mostly JOBBIK fans) who proud with Hunnic and Magyar heritage.Feeling is enough.


But Hungarians are only 1% Mongoloid on average. They barely have any Hunnic genes nowadays. Most of their genes are Slavic infact

[Partizan]

But Hungarians are only 1% Mongoloid on average. They barely have any Hunnic genes nowadays. Most of their genes are Slavic infact

I don't deny it.But since in their schools they learn Attila and Arpad as their national heroes,a sizeable part of them see Turks somewhat close to themselves.

[Queen B]

None of those fans can wave flags saying "Macedonia is Greece" if they are from today's Thessaloniki.
Every Greek can wave and say that, even if they are from Thessaloniki , Kozani, Chios or Crete.
Every GREEK, not any random Slav

[Onur]

Dude don't be fooled so easily. Turks don't like us. They only care about the Muslim minority in Macedonia and how to make their numbers bigger so they can take over our country. (Neo-Ottomanism)
The number of Turkish minority in Macedonia lessens everyday because they either migrate to Turkey or Europe. The remaining Turkish people are subject to assimilation among Albanians due to your state`s false policies.


Hungarians don't see you as brothers, get over it. If you were Christians it would be a different story.
First of all, they don't need to see us as "brothers", we are talking about mutual cooperation here. Thats more than enough.

Afaik, they are not that into religions as much as you. So, don't think like Hungarians have your primitive religious mindset.

Your false mindset is also the reason of your loyalty to the Serbians and nonexistent Yugo-slavia idea instead of your own Macedonian state. You are an hopeless case with your dogmas and false beliefs. It makes you so blind that you are even considering Greece as more friendlier than Turkey despite all their actions towards you.

[Midori]

The number of Turkish minority in Macedonia lessens everyday because they either migrate to Turkey or Europe. The remaining Turkish people are subject to assimilation among Albanians due to your state`s false policies.

If they choose to assimilate among the Albanians that's not our fault, it's their choice.


First of all, they don't need to see us as "brothers", we are talking about mutual cooperation here. Thats more than enough.

Afaik, they are not that into religions as much as you. So, don't think like Hungarians have your primitive religious mindset.

So, 90% of your countrymen are primitive according to you. Btw, Hungarians are mostly Catholics, and Catholic nations are known to be religious.


Your false mindset is also the reason of your loyalty to the Serbians and nonexistent Yugo-slavia idea instead of your own Macedonian state. You are an hopeless case with your dogmas and false beliefs. It makes you so blind that you are even considering Greece as more friendlier than Turkey despite all their actions towards you.

How is being a Yugonostalgic being loyal to the Serbs :confused: I'd like to see all Yugoslavs living in one state, nothing wrong with that (although hard to achieve)

[kabeiros]

No, you Prosfyges that are the majority in Salonika are decendents of Christian Turk speaking refugees from Anatolia with no connection to Macedonia at all It's reasonable for you to identify with the region of your origin rather than your nation, that's why you call all the inhabitants of the modern state of Turkey as Turks. We Greeks -unlike you Slavs who ''became'' Macedonians when you settled in Greek Macedonia- remain Greeks even if we settle in China. Our language has always been Greek, we don't construct imaginary languages by mixing Bulgarian and Serbian dialects.



This is why it is extremely silly that a bunch of people who are new arrivals to Macedonia go to football matches in the Republic of Macedonia and provoke us with your signs stating that "Macedonia is Greece" when we Macedonians have been here much longer then you so called 'Greek Macedonians'
1. There are Greek speaking people who origin from Macedonia and not Asia Minor, they are the true Macedonians
2. Balkan Wars and WWII are over, you lost and we kicked you out of our country, you filthy communists... get over it.

[El Gre]

As El Gre stated, the club was founded before the prosfyges arrived, so I guess they are excluded from the Bulgarian tag. The are instead referred to as prosfyges, because that's was they are - refugees, outsiders...

Your getting confused again like always.

Iraklis was founded in 1908 before the prosfyges arrived.
PAOK was founded after they arrived.

Southern Greeks call PAOK fans Bulgarians which is very strange but again southern Greeks call a souvlaki stick a 'straw' , they are a strange lot those southerners lol . Anyway its done to insult , nothing more.

As far as i know they dont call Iraklis or Aris fans Bulgarians
Iraklis are knows are geroi = oldies and Aris are called skoulikia = worms

The Greek members from Greece can confirm this or give more info.


And it would be nice to stay on topic and not have people talking about Hungarians and Turks etc.

Neither Sokol nor Vojknock can answer which ethnic group founded Iraklis in 1908 , 20 years before prosfyges arrived.
When they finally find out the answer they will realize it was the real Macedonians , not some fake slavic speaking peasants from around Bouf.

[Queen B]

As far as i know they dont call Iraklis or Aris fans Bulgarians
Iraklis are knows are geroi = oldies and Aris are called skoulikia = worms

Half true, actually.

Southerners, called every Northener as Bulgarian, but Paok fans are the most numerous and more passionate, so its more common towards them.
Northeners BETWEEN themselves call:
Paok - Guftoi
Aris - Skoulikia
Iraklis - Gries (not geroi).

[Crn Volk]

Your getting confused again like always.

Iraklis was founded in 1908 before the prosfyges arrived.
PAOK was founded after they arrived.

Southern Greeks call PAOK fans Bulgarians which is very strange but again southern Greeks call a souvlaki stick a 'straw' , they are a strange lot those southerners lol . Anyway its done to insult , nothing more.

As far as i know they dont call Iraklis or Aris fans Bulgarians
Iraklis are knows are geroi = oldies and Aris are called skoulikia = worms

The Greek members from Greece can confirm this or give more info.


And it would be nice to stay on topic and not have people talking about Hungarians and Turks etc.

Neither Sokol nor Vojknock can answer which ethnic group founded Iraklis in 1908 , 20 years before prosfyges arrived.
When they finally find out the answer they will realize it was the real Macedonians , not some fake slavic speaking peasants from around Bouf.

Were they Vlachs?

[iNird]

The number of Turkish minority in Macedonia lessens everyday because they either migrate to Turkey or Europe. The remaining Turkish people are subject to assimilation among Albanians due to your state`s false policies.


How many times do I need to own you on this subject on these baseless claims? For starters the Turkish figure is exagerated in the first place. Especially in a place like Plasnica (a declared Turkish dominant municipality) where the locals speak a Slavic language. Sure there might be some pressure on these "Turks" to declare Albanian but you never speak of these lost Macedonian Muslims or Albanians that declare as Turks especially in today's time where the Turkish image is deemed as more favorable due the vast amounts of Turkish investments including private schools in Macedonia. So stop it you little cunt with your lies on this subject.

Oh yeah, just for the lulz, your state's false policies doesn't even recognize any minorities and does nothing to stop assimilation of their ethnic groups. You spineless two faced cocksucker. You wish to keep Turkey ethnically Turkish but preach tolerance and minority rights in other countries. Get real douchebag.

[Crn Volk]

How many times do I need to own you on this subject on these baseless claims? For starters the Turkish figure is exagerated in the first place. Especially in a place like Plasnica (a declared Turkish dominant municipality) where the locals speak a Slavic language. Sure there might be some pressure on these "Turks" to declare Albanian but you never speak of these lost Macedonian Muslims or Albanians that declare as Turks especially in today's time where the Turkish image is deemed as more favorable due the vast amounts of Turkish investments including private schools in Macedonia. So stop it you little cunt with your lies on this subject.

Oh yeah, just for the lulz, your state's false policies doesn't even recognize any minorities and does nothing to stop assimilation of their ethnic groups. You spineless two faced cocksucker. You wish to keep Turkey ethnically Turkish but preach tolerance and minority rights in other countries. Get real douchebag.

This is true to some degree. There are Macedonian Muslims (Torbeshi) who declare as Turks, even though they don't know a word of Turkish, and their mother tongue is Macedonian.

[Crn Volk]

They sold their Christian faith to the Turks and became Muslims.. that's what makes them traitors. Macedonians call them ''Shiptari''. We could never accept a Muslim as part of our nation...

p.s. You don't need to be Orthodox to be Macedonian. You can be a Protestant, Catholic, Buddhist etc. just not a Muslim

In Bitolsko, even the shiptari are called Turci. I guess because we can't tell them apart. They all make good Boza though :)

Some Macedonian Muslims are good patriots like Ismail Bojda for example.

[MegaArgus1]

They sold their Christian faith to the Turks and became Muslims.. that's what makes them traitors. Macedonians call them ''Shiptari''. We could never accept a Muslim as part of our nation...

p.s. You don't need to be Orthodox to be Macedonian. You can be a Protestant, Catholic, Buddhist etc. just not a Muslim

whatever I treat them as macedonians and completely disagree with you ..the other religions you mentioned are not worth mentioning they are insignificant minority

[MegaArgus1]

But they don't agree with you. 90% of them identify as Turks and Albanians ;)

i don’t think so if you saw the video the guy is ready to be bulgarian not sebian nor albanian…why not macedonian??? can you guess why?????????????

[MegaArgus1]

In Bitolsko, even the shiptari are called Turci. I guess because we can't tell them apart. They all make good Boza though :)

Some Macedonian Muslims are good patriots like Ismail Bojda for example.

in general mulsims are referred as turks…ask how in bosnia the muslims are called by the serbs..they call them turks

[Vojnik]

It's reasonable for you to identify with the region of your origin rather than your nation, that's why you call all the inhabitants of the modern state of Turkey as Turks. We Greeks -unlike you Slavs who ''became'' Macedonians when you settled in Greek Macedonia- remain Greeks even if we settle in China. Our language has always been Greek, we don't construct imaginary languages by mixing Bulgarian and Serbian dialects.



1. There are Greek speaking people who origin from Macedonia and not Asia Minor, they are the true Macedonians
2. Balkan Wars and WWII are over, you lost and we kicked you out of our country, you filthy communists... get over it.

Yeah yeah, whatever you say you neo-Hellene.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2d6p8ah.png

"the unbaptised Turks left and the baptised Turks came"

http://i46.tinypic.com/wmdldk.png

Even the Cretans called you guys Turks when yous first arrived.

The Christian refugees from Anatolia were not Greek, nor did they speak Greek. They were Christian Turks that today make up the greater majority of the population in Aegean Macedonia.

And that is who the supporters of these football clubs are, which is why it is so stupid and insulting that they hold up such banners just to provoke us Macedonians who have been on the territory of Macedonia for thousounds of years longer then these new arrivals.

[Midori]

The Christian refugees from Anatolia were not Greek, nor did they speak Greek. They were Christian Turks that today make up the greater majority of the population in Aegean Macedonia.


Christian Turk? No such thing mate :D

[Queen B]

And that is who the supporters of these football clubs are, which is why it is so stupid and insulting that they hold up such banners just to provoke us Macedonians who have been on the territory of Macedonia for thousounds of years longer then these new arrivals.
Stupid is having a non-Greek claiming Macedonian ancestry.

[Crn Volk]

Stupid is having a non-Greek claiming Macedonian ancestry.

It's not a claim. It's a recognized fact in all countries except Greece and Bulgaria.

[tEhSaint]

It's not a claim. It's a recognized fact in all countries except Greece and Bulgaria.

What i dont really get, is why didnt you people invent another name for your territory? Lets say Epirus or Thrace? Oh, excuse me the former is reserved for Albanians i guess eh?

Macedonia has the whole package; Cool name and rich history,quite useful for a brand new pseudo country. Makes sense now.

[Crn Volk]

What i dont really get, is why didnt you people invent another name for your territory? Lets say Epirus or Thrace? Oh, excuse me the former is reserved for Albanians i guess eh?

Macedonia has the whole package; Cool name and rich history,quite useful for a brand new pseudo country. Makes sense now.

Our name has been with us for centuries, and yes it is cool. Stop trying to appropriate it :)

[Anatolian Eagle]

Christian Turk? No such thing mate :D

The Christians Vojnik referring is probably Karamanlides, whom were Turkish-speaking Christians in Anatolia later migrated to Greece via population exchange in numbers. Also believe me or not but Christian Turks do exist, in history and present, there were even Turkish Christian warriors amongst Crusaders, called "Turcopoles" ;) Today, their numbers isn't high but they do exist, there's also a Turkish national church, namely Turkish Orthodox Patriarchate. However this is off-topic.

[Pecheneg]

Christian Turk? No such thing mate :D

actually there is :)


Turcopoles
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50243



Karamanlides
-Many Karamanlides descended from (religiously converted) Turkish soldiers-Turcopoles (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50243) that Byzantine emperors settled in Anatolia.


*^ Vryonis, Speros. Studies on Byzantium, Seljuks, and Ottomans: Reprinted Studies. Undena Publications, 1981, ISBN 0-89003-071-5, p. 305. "They were originally Turkish soldiers which the Byzantine emperors had settled in Anatolia in large numbers and who retained their language and Christian religion after the Turkish conquests..."

[MegaArgus1]

Our name has been with us for centuries, and yes it is cool. Stop trying to appropriate it :)

The British Foreign Office and Macedonian National Identity, 1918-1941
http://www.gate.net/~mango/Rossos_British_FO.htm

Loring M. Danforth. The Macedonian Conflict: Ethnic Nationalism in a Transnational World. Princeton, N.J.: Princeton University Press, 1995. xvi + 273 pp. $29.95 (cloth), ISBN 978-0-691-04357-9.
http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=264

Macedonian National Identity: Quantitative Differences Between
Unitary and Subaltern National Myths and Narratives
http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/23437/1/DP33_MacedonianNationalIdentity.pdf

http://www.kppcenter.org/WBPReview2012-2-1-Slaveski-Kozarev.pdf

[Vojnik]

Stupid is having a non-Greek claiming Macedonian ancestry.

Whats even more stupid is having the new Greeks identify as Macedonians when there ancestors not too long ago lived miles away from Macedonia and spoke Turkish. But I guess this is what the whole Greek identity is based on, people that speak the Greek language and belong to the Greek Church, if you have those two, you are a fully fledged neo-Hellene, decendents of Aristotle and Socrates. :rolleyes:

I should not have to mention this at all, but I can personally go back to the late 1700's on my paternal side where my ancestors lived in Aegean Macedonia (northern Greece). Neo-Greeks from Macedonia can only go as far as there Grandparents, before that they were in central Turkey.

[Queen B]

It's not a claim. It's a recognized fact in all countries except Greece and Bulgaria.
Facts are based on proofs, and you have none.
''I am Macedonian because I say so'' its not a fact.

Our name has been with us for centuries, and yes it is cool. Stop trying to appropriate it :)
You mean this name has been for 60 years since TITO, and probably from some, since 1870 something . That doesn't make you macedonians.

Whats even more stupid is having the new Greeks identify as Macedonians when there ancestors not too long ago lived miles away from Macedonia and spoke Turkish. But I guess this is what the whole Greek identity is based on, people that speak the Greek language and belong to the Greek Church, if you have those two, you are a fully fledged neo-Hellene, decendents of Aristotle and Socrates. :rolleyes:
If someone is Greek by ancestry, has defenately more claim to Macedonians, since Macedonians were a Greek tribe.
Even if someone is 100% Cretan, STILL has more claim than a Slav.


I should not have to mention this at all, but I can personally go back to the late 1700's on my paternal side where my ancestors lived in Aegean Macedonia (northern Greece). Neo-Greeks from Macedonia can only go as far as there Grandparents, before that they were in central Turkey.
You think so. My paternal's side and family tree goes back 400 years ago. :bored::bored:

[Vojnik]

If someone is Greek by ancestry, has defenately more claim to Macedonians, since Macedonians were a Greek tribe.
Even if someone is 100% Cretan, STILL has more claim than a Slav.

Read this post of mine again.


Yeah yeah, whatever you say you neo-Hellene.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2d6p8ah.png

"the unbaptised Turks left and the baptised Turks came"

http://i46.tinypic.com/wmdldk.png

Even the Cretans called you guys Turks when yous first arrived.

The Christian refugees from Anatolia were not Greek, nor did they speak Greek. They were Christian Turks that today make up the greater majority of the population in Aegean Macedonia.

And that is who the supporters of these football clubs are, which is why it is so stupid and insulting that they hold up such banners just to provoke us Macedonians who have been on the territory of Macedonia for thousounds of years longer then these new arrivals.



You think so. My paternal's side and family tree goes back 400 years ago. :bored::bored:

Good on you Koukla, do you want a award? I am not having a competition here on family trees, I was just stating that my family alone have been in Macedonia much longer then most of the neo-Greeks in Northern Greece, but some how they are more Macedonian then me because they are Greek Orthodox and speak a newly imposed language rather then their Turkish mother tongue. :confused:

This is my last post on this subject, their is really no point debating with you neo-Greeks. I've had enough of your pathetic games.

[Queen B]

Good on you Koukla, do you want a award? I am not having a competition here on family trees, I was just stating that my family alone have been in Macedonia much longer then most of the neo-Greeks in Northern Greece, but some how they are more Macedonian then me because they are Greek Orthodox and speak a newly imposed language rather then their Turkish mother tongue. :confused:
They are more Macedonian than you because they are Greeks.
And Macedonians were Greeks. You are a Slav. 70 years ago you called yourself bulgarian, and 150 years ago, a Bulgarian or a Serb.
:D


This is my last post on this subject, their is really no point debating with you neo-Greeks. I've had enough of your pathetic games.
That's good to hear, but surely you (plural not specifically you) will create another butthurt thread about that. :bored:

[Crn Volk]

They are more Macedonian than you because they are Greeks.
And Macedonians were Greeks. You are a Slav. 70 years ago you called yourself bulgarian, and 150 years ago, a Bulgarian or a Serb.
:D

That's good to hear, but surely you (plural not specifically you) will create another butthurt thread about that. :bored:

What makes them Macedonian? What makes them Greek?

[MegaArgus1]

They are more Macedonian than you because they are Greeks.
And Macedonians were Greeks. You are a Slav. 70 years ago you called yourself bulgarian, and 150 years ago, a Bulgarian or a Serb.
:D

That's good to hear, but surely you (plural not specifically you) will create another butthurt thread about that. :bored:

Macedonia Vs. Greece - Who will win?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090119004434AAjcsDi

THE MACEDONIAN TENDENCY
THE MISTREATMENT OF GREECE'S ETHNIC MACEDONIAN MINORITY IS THE INSPIRATION FOR EVERY RACIST, EVERY FASCIST AND EVERY ETHNIC CLEANSER IN THE BALKANS! BY DEFINITION, THESE VALUES ARE ALSO NATO AND EU VALUES.
http://the-macedonian-tendency.blogspot.ca/2008/03/some-gets-it-right-about-macedonia-vs.html

[MegaArgus1]

XP2QcHohmFw

[MegaArgus1]

6hZIIigU0q0

[kabeiros]

The Christians Vojnik referring is probably Karamanlides, whom were Turkish-speaking Christians in Anatolia later migrated to Greece via population exchange in numbers. How many times do I have to post the same things for the stupid Turks (and the even more stupid Slavs) to understand? The population ex-change of Greece and Turkey included 1.3 million people of whom:

1. 400.000 were Pontic Greek speaking Pontic Greeks

2. 600.000 were Greek speaking (from Constantinople/Istambul, Kallipolis/Gelibolu, Nikomedia/Iznik, Adrianople/Edirne, Proussa/Bursa, Kydonies/Ayvalik, Fokaia/Foka, Smyrna/Ismir, Halicarnassos/Bodrum etc.)

3. 200.000 were Turkish speaking (from Cappadocia and a small number from western Pontus)

The third group might include a small percentage of Christianized Turks as you claim, but the rest are of native Anatolian (pre-Turkic) and Greek ancestry...


Back in topic, PAOK fans are of Macedonian, Pontic, Thessalian, Thracian and any other .....Greek origin (even Cretan), so they have every right to defend their Macedonian (GREEK) brothers against the fake Macedonian Slavs.

[Petros Houhoulis]

PAOK fans waving banner "Macedonia is Greek" in Strumica
Fifty fans of Greek club PAOK yesterday caused the incident in Strumica Stadium during the playing of the match between female teams of PAOK and Macedonian champion Our Taxi. Group Greek fans who apply for one of the biggest nationalists in the stands by displayied a banner "Macedonia is Greek".

http://www.kanal5.com.mk/(X(1)S(lxhtfjr1gxttew45m2vy0q55))/getImageThumbnail.axd?imgPath=upload/makedonijaegrcka.jpg&imgSize=600&cropH=400

The incident confirmed the Ministry of Interior. In a statement the police said: The time from 17.00 to 19.00 in Strumica in the stadium "Mladost", held an international qualifier for the Champions League - women between FC "PAOK" from Greece and FC "Our Taxi" by R. . Macedonia. Before starting the game by cheering group of "FC PAOK" was displayed prominent transparent white cloth measuring 10x3m in English "MACEDONIA IS GREECE", after which the reaction from UEFA delegate banner was hidden and 3 minutes ago Finally the match was again displayed, that caused outrage among local cheerleading group. After the UEFA delegate began with a video camera to record transparent and reaction of local cheerleading group, the banner was taken off again so the cheering group of FC "Our Taxi" waited outside until the provocation ceased. The delegate of UEFA ruled the cheering group of "FC PAOK" to be removed from the stands and be boarded buses, which later led to the pushing of individuals employed by the security agency "NIKOB", which redulted i police intervention to prevent further escalation. Bus fan group "FC PAOK" at 20:40 pm by border crossing Bogorodica left the territory of Macedonia. From the inspection it was determined that the fans of FC "PAOK" smashed 40 plastic chairs in the stands where they were staying.

Can't you just provide any proper source other than a picture?

Let's get straight with the subject: When we say that Macedonia is Greek, we don't mean your country. We mean Macedonia - as it was at the time of Phillip II and his son Alexander the Great.

We mean this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makedon

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Macedonian_Kingdom.jpg

Our modern borders are roughly the same extent. We are satisfied with them.

You tend to forget your own provocations, in your own stadium and elsewhere. Do I have to remind them to you?

At fan level:

http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo63/florina_013/uyz0c2sbtyx5zm4u0bwt-1.jpg

At Government level:

http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo63/florina_013/080402saeproedriomakedomd4.jpg

At festival level:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8BxMxS886L4/TxGKhyR5pLI/AAAAAAAAiuM/22OduPptaV8/s640/vevcani1.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tb2_hECjHjo/TxGMs09N-_I/AAAAAAAAiuU/x9RrzQhzomQ/s640/vevcani2.jpg

http://gdb.rferl.org/2958EE2D-19AC-4129-9A79-F467768C543A_cx0_cy0_cw0_w800_r1.jpg

http://media.makfax.mk/image/8befaf0f-3e3c-4942-a23b-c383088f1834

http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/WBStorage/Articles/938C02AFE170224FA63BBC67EF09C538.jpg

You made "our funeral", but you shall be the dead by the end of the century... Because of the Albanians... And WE DON'T CARE!

[Petros Houhoulis]

What makes them Macedonian? What makes them Greek?

Keeping up traces of the Ancient Macedonian culture, unlike you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Slavic_language#Pre-Slavic


A pre-Slavic period began c. 1500 to 1000 BCE, whereby certain phonological changes and linguistic contacts did not disperse evenly through all Balto-Slavic dialects. The development into Proto-Slavic probably occurred along the southern periphery of the Proto-Balto-Slavic continuum. The most archaic Slavic hydronyms are found here, along the middle Dnieper, Pripet and upper Dniester rivers. This agrees well with the fact that inherited Common Slavic vocabulary does not include detailed terminology for physical surface features peculiar of the mountains or the steppe, nor any relating to the sea, to coastal features, littoral flora or fauna, or salt water fishes. On the other hand, it does include well-developed terminology for inland bodies of water (lakes, river, swamps) and kinds of forest (deciduous and coniferous), for the trees, plants, animals and birds indigenous to the temperate forest zone, and for the fish native to its waters.[7] Indeed, Trubachev argues that this location fostered contacts between speakers of Pre-Proto-Slavic with the cultural innovations which emanated from central Europe and the steppe.[8] Although language groups cannot be straightforwardly equated with archaeological cultures, the emergence of a Pre-Proto-Slavic linguistic community corresponds temporally and geographically with the Kamarov and Chernoles cultures (Novotna, Blazek). Both linguists and archaeologists therefore often locate the Slavic Urheimat specifically within this area.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Slavic_distribution_origin.png

[Petros Houhoulis]

Whats even more stupid is having the new Greeks identify as Macedonians when there ancestors not too long ago lived miles away from Macedonia and spoke Turkish. But I guess this is what the whole Greek identity is based on, people that speak the Greek language and belong to the Greek Church, if you have those two, you are a fully fledged neo-Hellene, decendents of Aristotle and Socrates. :rolleyes:

I should not have to mention this at all, but I can personally go back to the late 1700's on my paternal side where my ancestors lived in Aegean Macedonia (northern Greece). Neo-Greeks from Macedonia can only go as far as there Grandparents, before that they were in central Turkey.

Well, let me sum it up for you Sokol:

You arrived in Macedonia in the Middle Ages. You claim that you are Macedonian because you settled in Macedonia for 1500 years. Then you were expelled from Macedonia.

Since what made you Macedonians was living in Macedonia, not that you are no longer living in Macedonia, you are no longer Macedonians. Plain and simple.

Us, on the other hand, carry Macedonia wherever we go:

Macedonia before the Slavs:

http://www.roman-emperors.org/sest6.jpg

Slavic invasions commence:

http://www.roman-emperors.org/sest7.jpg

The Macedonian refugees set up a new Macedonia in Thrace!

http://www.roman-emperors.org/sest8.htm

[Onur]

You arrived in Macedonia in the Middle Ages. You claim that you are Macedonian because you settled in Macedonia for 1500 years. Then you were expelled from Macedonia.
Thats still 1400 years earlier from your formerly Turkish speaking hellenic Macedonians. They came to Macedonia for the first time in 1923 without knowing a word of Greek but today, they became the sons of Alexander by some magic.

[MegaArgus1]

1. GOLD
http://gdb.rferl.org/2958EE2D-19AC-4129-9A79-F467768C543A_cx0_cy0_cw0_w800_r1.jpg

2. SILVER
http://www.kanal5.com.mk/(X(1)S(lxhtfjr1gxttew45m2vy0q55))/getImageThumbnail.axd?imgPath=upload/makedonijaegrcka.jpg&imgSize=600&cropH=400

3 BRONZE
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tb2_hECjHjo/TxGMs09N-_I/AAAAAAAAiuU/x9RrzQhzomQ/s640/vevcani2.jpg

[Food]

A Vietnamese guy I know said he thought Alexandros III was from Greece.

[Vojnik]

http://i48.tinypic.com/2d6p8ah.png

"the unbaptised Turks left and the baptised Turks came"

http://i46.tinypic.com/wmdldk.png

Even the Cretans called you guys Turks when yous first arrived.

The Christian refugees from Anatolia were not Greek, nor did they speak Greek. They were Christian Turks that today make up the greater majority of the population in Aegean Macedonia.

And that is who the supporters of these football clubs are, which is why it is so stupid and insulting that they hold up such banners just to provoke us Macedonians who have been on the territory of Macedonia for thousounds of years longer then these new arrivals.

Can you nea-Ellinas please stop ignoring this post from me, It's pissing me off.

"the unbaptised Turks left and the baptised Turks came"

Lets take the Turkish speaking Orthodox people that are know as the Karamanlides for example. In the 1923 population exchange they arrived in Aegean Macedonia numbered at around 100,000. They were forced to leave their home land in central Turkey. They only spoke Turkish, but with abit of magic, nea-Ellinas were born.

The home land of the new Greeks of Aegean Macedonia.
http://i47.tinypic.com/34xfk06.png



The oldest of the Karamanli misses his homeland.


The last surviving Karamanli, or Karamanlides in Greek, 98-year-old Stavros Farasopulos, says he misses his friends and his village back in Kayseri, and that he is proud to share his hometown with Turkish President Abdullah Gül.

Farasopulos was born in the village of Ağırnas in the eastern province of Kayseri in 1911 as a member of the local Karamanli community. Karamanli was a Greek Orthodox Christian community whose first language was Turkish written in the Greek alphabet and lived mainly in Kayseri’s Cappadocia region. Their name drives from the Karamanoğulları state that was based there before the growing Ottoman Empire annexed it in the mid-15th century.

The Karamanli community had to leave Turkey during the compulsory population exchange between Greece and Turkey in 1923 when transfer was solely based on religion, even though the Karamanlis’ first language was Turkish and most didn’t speak a word of Greek.

Farasopulos said he has missed his Turkish friends and his hometown since leaving it in 1924. He currently lives in Western Thrace, where his home is full of photos of Kayseri and one featuring President Abdullah Gül.

Among the mementos he keeps are letters dating back to when his family lived in Kayseri, letters in Turkish but written in the Greek alphabet.

Farasopulos’s eldest son, Nikos, speaks fluent Turkish. “My father brought me up as a proper Karamanli,” said Nikos.

When asked about his life in Ağırnas before 1922, Stavros Farasopulos said: “My best friends were Enver and Niyazi. Turkish was my mother tongue.”

Farasopulos then started talking about the period after World War I when Greece invaded Turkey.

“At that time, Greeks and Turks killed each other, but in my hometown nothing happened. That was because there was nothing that separated Turks from Greeks. During Turkey’s Independence War [1919-1922] I seldom saw a Turkish soldier in my village,” he said.

“I know my Kayseri and the Karamanlis. Turks, Greeks and Armenians are the same.”

Farasopulos said when he and his family first arrived in Greece he was discriminated against because the only language he could speak was Turkish.

Years later, in the 1960s, a friend from back in his village, Turan, came to visit Farasopulos in Greece. The first time Farasopulos went to his village after 1924 was in 1970. “When I went there in 1970, I was welcomed with open arms. I stayed there for two months. I didn’t want to leave. They later rebuilt the Ayi Anargri Church in the village. I thanked the mayor,” he said.

The last time he visited Ağırnas was in 2000. “I have grown old. I really want to visit my hometown but how can I?” he asked, citing his age.


Dandelion and other Greeks, how can you call these Turkish people as Greeks? if you do, then what the hell is a Greek? anyone must be able to become a Greek in this case, they just need to know the language.

[MegaArgus1]

Can you nea-Ellinas please stop ignoring this post from me, It's pissing me off.

"the unbaptised Turks left and the baptised Turks came"

Lets take the Turkish speaking Orthodox people that are know as the Karamanlides for example. In the 1923 population exchange they arrived in Aegean Macedonia numbered at around 100,000. They were forced to leave their home land in central Turkey. They only spoke Turkish, but with abit of magic, nea-Ellinas were born.

The home land of the new Greeks of Aegean Macedonia.
http://i47.tinypic.com/34xfk06.png



The oldest of the Karamanli misses his homeland.




Dandelion and other Greeks, how can you call these Turkish people as Greeks? if you do, then what the hell is a Greek? anyone must be able to become a Greek in this case, they just need to know the language.


so even today the greeks live in greece not in macedonia…those people are turks who because of religion pretend to be greeks…it appears that the tureks all christians called “Djaurs” regardless of ethnicity…so even christians with turkish origin were regarded as “Djaurs” ….like in the past or even today we refer for the muslims as turks regardless of the ethnic origin….so in 1923 the muslims (many of them macedonians by origin) considered as turks were exchanged with the christians having turkish ethnic origin (considered by the turks as Djaurs) which because of religion in time by accepting the greek language began to claim that they were decedents of the ancient maceonians only becaure they now live in macedonia …and it goes so far to wave banner in the hearth of maceonia “macedonia is greece”

[MegaArgus1]

the population exchange in religion terms happened whit the greeks otherwise what would happen to the turkish cristians is what happened to the armanians in 1915
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

[Midori]

How many times do I have to post the same things for the stupid Turks (and the even more stupid Slavs) to understand? The population ex-change of Greece and Turkey included 1.3 million people of whom:

1. 400.000 were Pontic Greek speaking Pontic Greeks

2. 600.000 were Greek speaking (from Constantinople/Istambul, Kallipolis/Gelibolu, Nikomedia/Iznik, Adrianople/Edirne, Proussa/Bursa, Kydonies/Ayvalik, Fokaia/Foka, Smyrna/Ismir, Halicarnassos/Bodrum etc.)

3. 200.000 were Turkish speaking (from Cappadocia and a small number from western Pontus)

The third group might include a small percentage of Christianized Turks as you claim, but the rest are of native Anatolian (pre-Turkic) and Greek ancestry...


This. Those ''Turkish'' Christians are actually Greeks.

[Onur]

MegaArgus, you are completely wrong in your theories about the Turkish christians.

Most of the Turkish christians has been sided with the Ataturk and his friends when Greece invaded Anatolia and they left the Istanbul church and formed their own with 73 bishops from all over Anatolia and they have been excommunicated by the Istanbul patriarchy.

They started praying in Turkish and announced that all the Turkish christians should abandon traitorous Istanbul patriarchy and join them to form their own Turkish church. Read these;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocephalous_Turkish_Orthodox_Patriarchate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Congregation_of_the_Anatolian_Turkish_Orth odox

The population of Turkish christians was around 400.000. As you know, population exchange has been proposed by the Greek state for the first time and they specifically insisted the inclusion of the Turkish speaking christians. They didn't want their Greek patriarchy in Istanbul to be insignificant because if Turkish christians would remain in Turkey then they would be the most numerous and eventually overwhelm the Greek one. They also didn't want to lose 400.000 people because they wanted to fill as many as people inside Macedonia to dilute slavic speaking population.

Turkish delegates refused to send Turkish christians at first but they accepted in the end when both British and Greek delegates insisted for them for days. This was the biggest shame of new Turkish republic back then. Ataturk said that his biggest regret was accepting the expulsion of Turkish christians from Turkey. He said this shortly before dying in 1938.

[Queen B]

Can you nea-Ellinas please stop ignoring this post from me, It's pissing me off.
Since you post nothing but bullshit, there is no reason to give attention to them .

[MegaArgus1]

MegaArgus, you are completely wrong in your theories about the Turkish christians.

Most of the Turkish christians has been sided with the Ataturk and his friends when Greece invaded Anatolia and they left the Istanbul church and formed their own with 73 bishops from all over Anatolia and they have been excommunicated by the Istanbul patriarchy.

They started praying in Turkish and announced that all the Turkish christians should abandon traitorous Istanbul patriarchy and join them to form their own Turkish church. Read these;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocephalous_Turkish_Orthodox_Patriarchate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Congregation_of_the_Anatolian_Turkish_Orth odox

The population of Turkish christians was around 400.000. As you know, population exchange has been proposed by the Greek state for the first time and they specifically insisted the inclusion of the Turkish speaking christians. They didn't want their Greek patriarchy in Istanbul to be insignificant because if Turkish christians would remain in Turkey then they would be the most numerous and eventually overwhelm the Greek one. They also didn't want to lose 400.000 people because they wanted to fill as many as people inside Macedonia to dilute slavic speaking population.

Turkish delegates refused to send Turkish christians at first but they accepted in the end when both British and Greek delegates insisted for them for days. This was the biggest shame of new Turkish republic back then. Ataturk said that his biggest regret was accepting the expulsion of Turkish christians from Turkey. He said this shortly before dying in 1938.

thanks for clearing up this issue…...the fact that the turk christians had been exchanged with mostly macedonian slavic mulims says that turkey preferred religion over ethnicity…so to simplify….for the turks at that time there were only christians referred as “Djaurs” and they cared less how those “Djaurs” had been ethnically divided so turkey put the turk cristians on the other side of the road with all other “Djaurs”

on the other hand all muslims regardless of origin had been considered as turks and referred as turks by the “Djaurs” since and even today for some the words muslims and turks are interchangeable

[MegaArgus1]

This. Those ''Turkish'' Christians are actually Greeks.

the greek sources are not to be trusted they don’t care for the truth and will do whatever needed to delude the world with lies and delusions

[Onur]

thanks for clearing up this issue…...the fact that the turk christians had been exchanged with mostly macedonian slavic mulims says that turkey preferred religion over ethnicity…so to simplify….for the turks at that time there were only christians referred as “Djaurs” and they cared less how those “Djaurs” had been ethnically divided so turkey put the turk cristians on the other side of the road with all other “Djaurs”

on the other hand all muslims regardless of origin had been considered as turks and referred as turks by the “Djaurs” since and even today for some the words muslims and turks are interchangeable
This is not that simple to explain. Before the population exchange, there was 700.000 Turks in Greece and their total population was around 3 million. The Greek state with 20-25% Turks wasnt that hellenic at all. So, they were going to be expelled out no matter what. After their catastrophic failure in Anatolia, they started to attack Turks in Greece and there was no way for them to live in there anymore. Venizelos was already planing to bring christians of Anatolia to Greece since WW-1 days. He wanted to do this to repopulate recently acquired Aegean Macedonia.

I will open a thread about population exchange when i find some time laters. So, you can read about it if you like.

[Sforza]

Well, I've seen such debates go on for as far as I'm alive but always a single question would come in mind. Sure enough the Slavic element exists in Macedonia for 1500 years so Macedonia is as Slavic as Serbia or Croatia.

*But* unlike Illyrians who were pretty much "fused" with the Slavs that came from the north (therefore going extinct as a distinct culture/language) a lot of the "initial" Macedonians "survived". Nowadays we call them "Ntopioi" meaning "natives". Maybe they were a minority in Ottoman Macedonia, maybe they were not, but they have as much of a right to self determination as the Slav-Macedonians do, maybe even more so since they mostly form a direct line from the Ancient Macedonians.

So -finally- my question is this. Why don't you people simply call yourselves Slav-Macedonians or use some similar demonym and be done with it, because that's *exactly* what you are. You're not Greek Macedonians, you're not Bulgar-Macedonians, not Turk-Macedonians, you're *slavic* Macedonians, what's wrong with that name?

To conclude it appears to me this whole argument is a bit made up. I don't have to like you to understand and respect that Macedonia was your homeland for centuries (unlike what many of my compatriots do, I grant you the significance of that) but you should do the same, not towards those that came "just now" (in historical terms), but to those Greek populations who were here for as much (in fact more than) as you were.

It seems to me that you're as blinded as the side you're accusing of being short-sighted (the Greeks). I don't like you, not because of the name, I believe that part of it belongs to you, but because in the process of "taking it" you seem to erase big parts of my people's history and to create links that they were not there.

For example I find it despicable that you never drew a clear line between Ancient Macedonians and you, but instead embracing them as your progenitors, *this* is despicable and you should be ashamed of what's going on in your country (falsifying history)...

[Onur]

I don't like you, not because of the name, I believe that part of it belongs to you, but because in the process of "taking it" you seem to erase big parts of my people's history and to create links that they were not there.
just compare the demographics and cultural situation of Macedonia before 1913 with post-1923 population exchange and then tell us who erased the history of whom.

And yes, your so-called "Greek Macedonians" was never there before 1923. Your state settled around 900.000 people in Aegean Macedonia back then. They were Anatolian christians and about half of them was speaking Turkish only.

[Sforza]

just compare the demographics and cultural situation of Macedonia before 1913 with post-1923 population exchange and then tell us who erased the history of whom.

And yes, your so-called "Greek Macedonians" was never there before 1923. Your state settled around 900.000 people in Aegean Macedonia back then. They were Anatolian christians and about half of them was speaking Turkish only.

Are you sure about this? This is a map from 1877 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Balkans-ethnic_%281877%29.jpg, it shows quite a sizeable greek community in macedonia especially along the shores.

There's an old song being told (in Greek) which takes place in the mid 19th ce, in a village near Nigrita, it talks about a woman named Gerakina that in the day of her wedding she fell into her death in a deep well. This is a well known song which can indeed be traced in actual events which were taking place in Greek village in what is modern day Macedonia.

Also a relative of mine wed (back in the 60s) a girl that was "ntopia", in fact there was a problem at first between the families because he was a "prosfygas" Greek and she was a "ntopia". Her great grandfather was a Greek priest who lived in the early 1800s and build the (Greek) church of a village that is now part of Thessaloniki under the name of Evosmos. The tomb with his name inscribed on is underneath the stairs of that church. Everything's written in Greek and if you ever come by I can walk you to that tomb but also the stories of the "ntopioi" (Greek Macedonians) that go centuries back.

It's nonsense and unhistorical to believe that there were no Greeks in Macedonia before 1923 I thought we're through that... I never denied the presence of Slavs here, I deny their monopoly on the name.

[Onur]

Are you sure about this? This is a map from 1877 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Balkans-ethnic_%281877%29.jpg, it shows quite a sizeable greek community in macedonia especially along the shores.
These are not the names of ethnic groups but religious affiliations. So, the "sizable Greek community" in that map are not only Greeks but everyone who were adhere to Istanbul Greek patriarchy and this includes Vlachs, Romioi (Greeks), Bulgars and Macedonians, christian gypsies, Arvanites, Gagauz etc.


It's nonsense and unhistorical to believe that there were no Greeks in Macedonia before 1923 I thought we're through that...
Yes, there was Greeks (romioi speakers) back then but they were no more than 20% of whole Aegean Macedonia, concentrated around Salonika city. The rest 80% majority was Turks, Slavic speaking Macedonians and Vlachs, Jews as a minority.

[Anatolian Eagle]

MegaArgus, you are completely wrong in your theories about the Turkish christians.

Most of the Turkish christians has been sided with the Ataturk and his friends when Greece invaded Anatolia and they left the Istanbul church and formed their own with 73 bishops from all over Anatolia and they have been excommunicated by the Istanbul patriarchy.

They started praying in Turkish and announced that all the Turkish christians should abandon traitorous Istanbul patriarchy and join them to form their own Turkish church. Read these;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocephalous_Turkish_Orthodox_Patriarchate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Congregation_of_the_Anatolian_Turkish_Orth odox

The population of Turkish christians was around 400.000. As you know, population exchange has been proposed by the Greek state for the first time and they specifically insisted the inclusion of the Turkish speaking christians. They didn't want their Greek patriarchy in Istanbul to be insignificant because if Turkish christians would remain in Turkey then they would be the most numerous and eventually overwhelm the Greek one. They also didn't want to lose 400.000 people because they wanted to fill as many as people inside Macedonia to dilute slavic speaking population.

Turkish delegates refused to send Turkish christians at first but they accepted in the end when both British and Greek delegates insisted for them for days. This was the biggest shame of new Turkish republic back then. Ataturk said that his biggest regret was accepting the expulsion of Turkish christians from Turkey. He said this shortly before dying in 1938.

Excellent post. I especially agree with last paragraph, however at least the church itself still remains, that's a good thing. I also had a picture of dogtags of Turkish Christan martyrs of the war of independence however I'm on phone therefore can't post it.

[kabeiros]

It's useless to discuss with low IQ Turks, my fellow Greeks, let them live in their fantasy land. How can you debate with ignorant fools, who call -Anatolian Greeks- Turks?
Can you imagine that, the fake Turks (of Kurdish, Abkhazian, Armenian, Persian, Arabian, Albanian, Bosnian, Egyptian, Syrian and African origin) call us Christian Turks? The percentage of pure Turkish ancestry is 10% in their own country and they call the descendants of Byzantines, Turks? I repeat their IQ is below 70, so it's useless to debate with them....

[Sforza]

Yes, there was Greeks (romioi speakers) back then but they were no more than 20% of whole Aegean Macedonia, concentrated around Salonika city. The rest 80% majority was Turks, Slavic speaking Macedonians and Vlachs, Jews as a minority.

How does that -then- change the core of my argument? There were Greek Macedonians then, there are Greek Macedonians now, no matter how few, the name is theirs as much as it is Slav Macedonians'. So there *must* be a differentiation in name, don't you agree?

Also Romioi is the Ottoman name of the people now called Greeks, there is no difference between the two. And if you go further back you'd see that Romioi are the same as the Byzantine Greeks (Romaioi) and even further back they are/were the ones under the name of Aeolians/Dorians/Ionians, etc. who collectively were called Hellenes. Same peoples... different ethnonym depending on who was in charge at the time...

edit:

It's useless to discuss with low IQ Turks, my fellow Greeks ...I am a big proponent of rational discussion using evidence and reason. I'll try my best using those tools, and if I find out that they're not enough, then and only then we can "take up arms"...

[Anatolian Eagle]

These are the releated pictures from my previous post:

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/_newsimages/1243048.jpg

Those are names in dogtags (yeh I know kinda unreadable but well... I dunno why it looks like that)
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/_newsimages/1243013.jpg

Releated article in Turkish:
http://www.hristiyanforum.com/forum/turkiyedehristiyanlik-f524/gayrimuslim-sehitlerimiz-t1459.html

[Anatolian Eagle]

It's useless to discuss with low IQ Turks, my fellow Greeks, let them live in their fantasy land. How can you debate with ignorant fools, who call -Anatolian Greeks- Turks?
Can you imagine that, the fake Turks (of Kurdish, Abkhazian, Armenian, Persian, Arabian, Albanian, Bosnian, Egyptian, Syrian and African origin) call us Christian Turks? The percentage of pure Turkish ancestry is 10% in their own country and they call the descendants of Byzantines, Turks? I repeat their IQ is below 70, so it's useless to debate with them....

No, you're just having an IQ complex as a different form of inferriority complex.

[morski]

Those are names in dogtags (yeh I know kinda unreadable but well... I dunno why it looks like that)
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/_newsimages/1243013.jpg



I see some clearly Armenian names like Agop, Kalust, Vartan and general Judeo-Christian names like Avram, Isak, Apostol.

[Γέλως]

Onur's pants are getting wet by thinking Turks are similar to the Europeans. Sadly, there's no such thing as Christian Turk.

[Anatolian Eagle]

I see some clearly Armenian names like Agop, Kalust, Vartan and general Judeo-Christian names like Avram, Isak, Apostol.

Of course, because they were TURKISH Christians and fought for TURKISH side. That's like calling a Turk named "Abdullah" or "Muhammad" an Arab, because their names are Islamic.

[Anatolian Eagle]

Onur's pants are getting wet by thinking Turks are similar to the Europeans. Sadly, there's no such thing as Christian Turk.

I could expect nothing more than denial :D

[Pecheneg]

Can you imagine that, the fake Turks call us Christian Turks? The percentage of pure Turkish ancestry is 10% in their own country and they call the descendants of Byzantines, Turks? I repeat their IQ is below 70, so it's useless to debate with them....
What's pure Turkish ancestry? Seljuk Turks were from today's Turkmenistan, not from siberia. We have much more Turkmen blood than you have original indo-european blood. Your people are predominantly e3b carriers which has nothing to do with indo-europeans (r1a carriers) from Kurgan steppes. Does it ring any bell in your empty head? You somalian e3b carriers have no right to talk about purity. You are just indo-europeanized pre-IE populations.



(of Kurdish, Abkhazian, Armenian, Persian, Arabian, Albanian, Bosnian, Egyptian, Syrian and African origin)
We are mixture between Oghuz Turks and Anatolians you idiot, what's african, egyptian, etc? you are confusing us with your own nation. :laugh:




It's useless to discuss with low IQ Turks, my fellow Greeks, let them live in their fantasy land. How can you debate with ignorant fools, who call -Anatolian Greeks- Turks?
and who the hell do you think you are... einstein? You take this "average IQ by country" graphics too serious, besides smartest people are east asians according to this studies, not your north african mixed curly haired e3b carrier people.

[Anatolian Eagle]

We are mixture between Oghuz Turks and Anatolians you idiot, what's african, egyptian, etc? you are confusing us with your own nation. :laugh:

Isn't it ironic how he listed shitloads of ethniticies that we live(d) together with and even those have nothing to do us, yet he only excluded Greeks? :D

[morski]

Of course, because they were TURKISH Christians and fought for TURKISH side. That's like calling a Turk named "Abdullah" or "Muhammad" an Arab, because their names are Islamic.

Mhm, they were Turkish citizens all right. Here's another one:

http://prikachi.com/images/361/4910361E.jpg

TURKISH soldier 1910-12

Serbian soldier 1914-15

Bulgarian soldier 1916-18

Petko Liskovski is the name.:D:D

[El Gre]

posted by vojknock

Can you nea-Ellinas please stop ignoring this post from me, It's pissing me off.

"the unbaptised Turks left and the baptised Turks came"

You want us to respond to an idiotic comment made by an illiterate(and dumb) slav speaking peasant??? Who gives a flying %#@% what a bunch of illiterate peasants think.

Maybe you and Van Boescheten can ask the same peasants why would 1 million so called 'turks' decide to convert to christianity and pay taxes etc etc?
Why give up the good life of being a muslim in the ottoman empire.
Why did the Karamanlides use the greek alphabet when they wrote?
Why do Pontic Greeks speak a Greek dialect which is closely related to ancient Greek?

Why do ignore the fact that there were easily 300,000 native Greek speakers living in Macedonia? What makes some fat headed ox pullers from Bitola more Macedonian than them?

Why do you ignore my QUESTION? What ethnicity established a team called IRAKLIS (named after Hercules) in Thessaloniki in 1908 , 20 years before the arrival of the refugees????

[morski]

posted by vojknock


You want us to respond to an idiotic comment made by an illiterate(and dumb) slav speaking peasant??? Who gives a flying %#@% what a bunch of illiterate peasants think.

Maybe you and Van Boescheten can ask the same peasants why would 1 million so called 'turks' decide to convert to christianity and pay taxes etc etc?
Why give up the good life of being a muslim in the ottoman empire.
Why did the Karamanlides use the greek alphabet when they wrote?
Why do Pontic Greeks speak a Greek dialect which is closely related to ancient Greek?

Why do ignore the fact that there were easily 300,000 native Greek speakers living in Macedonia? What makes some fat headed ox pullers from Bitola more Macedonian than them?

Why do you ignore my QUESTION? What ethnicity established a team called IRAKLIS (named after Hercules) in Thessaloniki in 1908 , 20 years before the arrival of the refugees????

Some of those were indeed so dumb that they didn't join the Exarchate, but remained loyal to the Patrarchy and became Greek.;)

[Onur]

El Gre, you don't know shit about your Turkish speaking ancestors but yet you try to speak about them;


Maybe you and Van Boescheten can ask the same peasants why would 1 million so called 'turks' decide to convert to christianity and pay taxes etc etc?
Why give up the good life of being a muslim in the ottoman empire.
These people were already christians before the foundation of Ottoman empire.

Seljuk empire has been destroyed by the Mongol army in 1243 and Ottoman empire has been founded in 1299. Byzantine missioners baptized as many as Turks possible between 1243 to 1350s, during that period of confusion. This is recorded in Byzantine chronicles and they wrote how they managed to baptize desperate Turks of Anatolia after Seljuk state was no more. In later times, Byzantines called these people as "Tourkosporo or Turcopoles".

Thats when they became christians. Thats also when Byzantine emperor allowed the Seljuk ruler`s son to settle in today`s Varna, Bulgaria en exchange of baptizing them and thats how the Gagauz Turks has been born.


Why did the Karamanlides use the greek alphabet when they wrote?
Karamanlides started to use Greek alphabet only after 1860s after the British phelhellenes started to educate them in Greek for the first time ever. Before 1860s, they were writing in Ottoman script just as the muslims.

[Vojnik]

posted by vojknock
You want us to respond to an idiotic comment made by an illiterate(and dumb) slav speaking peasant??? Who gives a flying %#@% what a bunch of illiterate peasants think.

Hey, watch your mouth you dirty goat fucking cunt.


Maybe you and Van Boescheten can ask the same peasants why would 1 million so called 'turks' decide to convert to christianity and pay taxes etc etc?
Why give up the good life of being a muslim in the ottoman empire.
Why did the Karamanlides use the greek alphabet when they wrote?
Why do Pontic Greeks speak a Greek dialect which is closely related to ancient Greek?

Why do Mexicans write in Spanish when they are not Spanish? The Greek alphabet has been used by many non-Greeks over history. What has a alphabet got to do with ethnicity? The Karamanlides spoke Turkish and were forced to leave their homeland in Turkey, do you think they wanted to go to Greece where they were forced to learn Greek and forget about their Turkish heritage?

Refugees being taught to speak Greek.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w295/miskoni_album/Makedonia/nggreatesttrekp582nov19253os.jpg
Look at the two in the front row on the left :D. They are now nea-Ellinas.


Why do ignore the fact that there were easily 300,000 native Greek speakers living in Macedonia? What makes some fat headed ox pullers from Bitola more Macedonian than them?


The entire region of Macedonia before the 1920's was by far dominated by Macedonians. Greeks were only concentrated down south along the coast. Then these Turkish refugees arrived, now 'Greeks' are the strong majority.


Why do you ignore my QUESTION? What ethnicity established a team called IRAKLIS (named after Hercules) in Thessaloniki in 1908 , 20 years before the arrival of the refugees????

You are more pathetic then I thought. So what if a bunch of neo-Greeks decided to call their team after Hercules? does that make them more Greek?

Turks and Greeks look the same to me anyway....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Turk-greek11.jpg

[Queen B]

It's useless to discuss with low IQ Turks, my fellow Greeks, let them live in their fantasy land. How can you debate with ignorant fools, who call -Anatolian Greeks- Turks?
Can you imagine that, the fake Turks (of Kurdish, Abkhazian, Armenian, Persian, Arabian, Albanian, Bosnian, Egyptian, Syrian and African origin) call us Christian Turks? The percentage of pure Turkish ancestry is 10% in their own country and they call the descendants of Byzantines, Turks? I repeat their IQ is below 70, so it's useless to debate with them....

I have stoped to try to talk with logic to Turks here. There is no thing like ''logic'' in them. :picard2:

According to Turks (and Slavs from the North and .. every kind of obssesed butt-hurt neighbor):

- All the Greeks in Asia Minor/Pontus/Anatolia, wasn't really Greeks, but Turks BUT all the Turks in Greece, were ONLY Turks.

- Even though (see above) those weren't really Greeks, and lived in a NON-Greek place, they managed to.. Hellenize people, and make them believe they are Greeks.

- In Macedonia, they weren't really Greeks, but Slavs, Turks, etc. Even before Balkan wars, the non-existence Greeks managed to... Hellinize the ... MAJORITY , while Macedonia haven't yet returned to Greece.

(I won't even mention the ''logical'' arguments about our ancestry, or their so-called Macedonian ancestry, because its more than laughable already)

So, you see. Basically, everyone that was here, WAS a Slav, an Albanian and a Turk. Every Greek out of today's Greek borders (and even in today's Greek borders) wasn't a Greek. !!!

On the other hand, the non-existent Greeks managed to Hellinize pretty much the majority, out of Greece's borders, or under a foreign power.

:loco:

[Pecheneg]

I have stoped to try to talk with logic to Turks here. There is no thing like ''logic'' in them. :picard2:

According to Turks (and Slavs from the North and .. every kind of obssesed butt-hurt neighbor):

- All the Greeks in Asia Minor/Pontus/Anatolia, wasn't really Greeks, but Turks BUT all the Turks in Greece, were ONLY Turks.
not every Greek of asia minor was Turk, but some of them have Turcopole (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50243) ancestry and a significant portion of them were native to region.




- Even though (see above) those weren't really Greeks, and lived in a NON-Greek place, they managed to.. Hellenize people, and make them believe they are Greeks.
You always use same arguments about us, don't you? Even your geneticist dienekes is obsessed with this Turkification tales.





- In Macedonia, they weren't really Greeks, but Slavs, Turks, etc. Even before Balkan wars, the non-existence Greeks managed to... Hellinize the ... MAJORITY , while Macedonia haven't yet returned to Greece.

(I won't even mention the ''logical'' arguments about our ancestry, or their so-called Macedonian ancestry, because its more than laughable already)

So, you see. Basically, everyone that was here, WAS a Slav, an Albanian and a Turk. Every Greek out of today's Greek borders (and even in today's Greek borders) wasn't a Greek. !!!

On the other hand, the non-existent Greeks managed to Hellinize pretty much the majority, out of Greece's borders, or under a foreign power.

:loco:

According to you, the non-existent Turks managed to Turkify asia minor, and some balkan people etc.

[Queen B]

not every Greek of asia minor was Turk, but some of them had Turcopole (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50243) ancestry and a big portion of them were native to region.

From ''some of them'' to ''Christianized Turks'' (the way that he is reffering to Greeks) there is a huuuuuuge difference.

If some Turks in TA were saying ''some of them'' we wouldn't make this discussion.



You always use same arguments about us, don't you? Even your geneticist dienekes is obsessed with this Turkification tales.

You didn't read my comment correctly. I m not mentioning the Turkification (here). I m mentioning the hilarious comments about Hellenization.

Some Fyromians claim that the Greeks (which according to them weren't really Greeks) managed to hellinize the population of Macedonia, (which according to them were NOT as a majority the Greeks) even when Macedonia haven't returned to Greece !!!!!!!!!!!

Some Turks on the other hand, claim that Pontic Greeks, Greeks in Asia minor, etc weren't really Greeks. Yet, they carried the Greek culture because of ... Hellenization !!!!



According to you, the non-existent Turks managed to Turkify asia minor, and some balkan people etc.
You are saying words that I have never said, Pecheneg.

Where did I say that Asia Minor had no Turks?

[MegaArgus1]

We feel the urge to tell the truth as we see it. But we should try to accomplish this without judgemental condemnations that hurt others. Again, when we remember that what we perceive in another is a reflection of ourselves, we become less judgemental. So when we freely express harsh judgement of another, we are in effect talking about those aspects of ourselves that trouble us the most.
- Shirley MacLaine, Going Within

[Sforza]

The entire region of Macedonia before the 1920's was by far dominated by Macedonians. Greeks were only concentrated down south along the coast. Then these Turkish refugees arrived, now 'Greeks' are the strong majority.

Again, why are those Greeks that lived in the area for centuries -no matter how few- *not* Macedonians? What difference does it make if they were 10000 or 1 million? They are/were as much "Macedonians" as you are/were (maybe even more having *Macedonian*, not slav, ancestry), why do you deny that right of theirs by calling yourselves *The* Macedonians?

You're Slav-Macedonians, you always were, you have no connection with the greek speaking population that lived in this place, you only have connection with *the* place so you *have to* make a distinction. You're not Macedonians (as you're relative new-comers) but you *are* Slav-Macedonians because you lived in a place called Macedonia. What's so hard to understand?

And why the f#@$ do you build statues with Alexander's name on it, it's the same as building a statue of Napoleon or Genghis Khan you're as connected to them as you're to Alexander, what's so hard of this to get? Do you have no heroes of your own?

[kabeiros]

not every Greek of asia minor was Turk, but some of them have Turcopole ancestry and a significant portion of them were native to region.

Now we can make a reasonable discussion. As you said, some of them might have been Turks who converted to Christianity in 1250-1300 AD and were included in the Greek and native Christian population of Cappadocia under the Byzantine Empire.
Later, when the Ottomans established their rule over Byzantium, Cappadocian Christians intermarried with other Christians and not with Turks (who were all Muslims now), so this small Turkish ancestry of them was minimized.
This phenomenon took place only in Cappadocia and Western Pontus (Bafra area), not anywhere else in Anatolia. In fact, the Greeks who lived in Bithynia and the western shores of Asia Minor (Ayvalik, Smyrne, Fokaia, Halicarnassos) are among the purest Greeks, because they didn’t mix with Turks, Albanians, Vlachs or Slavs and they were the majority of Anatolian Greeks.
Do you see now how foolish is Onur’s talking about the Turkishness of Anatolian Greeks?