Deconstruction of the term Bulgar

[Novi Pazar]

No readers, this isn't the topic (Significance of the term Bulgar) but its to further expand on Nikola Spasikov's article. Hopefully you will further understand why Slavs outside of true modern Bulgaria were called INCORRECTLY Bulgars. This mistake was further cemented with the later comming of the Bulgarian Exarchos (1872 - 1912), sadly, modern writers still use these wrong historical references for their modern works.

Enjoy, especially Bulgars:

Гърците наричали българина "хондрокефалос", което означава дебелоглав, в смисъл твърдоглав, тъп, прост. На Запад през средновековието еретиците наричали "бугри" (фр. bougres), което произлиза от bulgare (българин) и означавало нещо лошо. Според френската енциклопедия "Ларус" думата означава оскърбителен термин, ругатня. В речника на Бл. Мавров тя означава тип, нехранимайко, проклетник. Академик Йордан Иванов в книгата си "Богомилски книги и легенди" пише, че във френския език са останали и до ден днешен думи и изрази, идещи от името "българин" (bougre) с негативно значение

Translation:

The Greeks called the Bulgarians "Hondrokephalos", which designates ticken headed person, in the sense of stubborn, dumb. In the West during Medieval Times the Heretics were called "Bugri" (Franch bougres), which derives from bulgare (Bulgarian) and designates something bad. Accoding to the Ecyclopedia "Larus" the word designates an derogative term. In the dictionary of Bl. Mavrov the word designates a Type, vagabont, cursed one. Academmian Jordan Ivanov in his book "Bogomils Books and Legends" writes, that the French language preserved till the modern day the words, that are derived from the term "Bulgarian" (bougre) with negative meaning.




Taken from:
BOZHIDAR DINKOV
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Babylon French-English
bougre (m) n. fellow; damn; bugger

Babylon English-English

bugger
n. fellow, chap; person who commits sodomy
v. sodomize; bother




The etymology of this word is amusing, it returns to… Bulgarian!
To the Middle Ages (fine Xe S.), the Bulgarian ones went guilty to the eyes of Rome of the heresy bogomile (they did not believe where the pope said to them to believe). Have showed them to be sodomites, which charged the Latin term bulgarus with a sexual connotation.
The francized term became bogre then guy (= heretic, discharged, homosexual - much of significance for only one term!), bougrery being male homosexuality.
By extension one invented the bougress, designating the lesbian.
The scholars of the rebirth them replaced the bougrery term by a more elegant name because resulting from the Greek: pederasty.

Nowadays the sexual connotation of the term was largely erased, a guy is almost the equivalent of a strapping man.

Babel Forum

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From Wikipedia:

"Vulgarism" derives from Latin vulgus, the "common folk", and has carried into English its original connotations linking it with the low and coarse motivations that were supposed to be natural to the commons, who were not moved by higher motives like fame for posterity and honor among peers — motives that were alleged to move the literate classes. Thus the concept of vulgarism carries cultural freight from the outset, and from some social and religious perspectives it does not genuinely exist, or — and perhaps this amounts to the same thing – ought not to exist.



While people who were known as the "Common Folk" under Roman Rule and later the same Term was used as Mass designation into the East Roman Empire, came to be misunderstood with the new comer Tatar Mongol Tribes designation "Bulgarian".

Latin vulgaris means common, ordinary, usual. This same word is only one character away from the Ethnic name of Proto Bulgarians Bolgari in Cyrilic Болгари (in Greek Βουλγαρoς pronounced VULGAROS which was mostly used to designate the Tatar Bulgarians, cause they were seen as low life creatures).



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Also interesting to consider is the Latin: burgus and burgarius > small fortification; soldier stationed at burgus; which left traces in the Old Germanic as burgarius precisely in Old High German, and burgõri* 7, burgeri*, Burgbewohner, Einwohner; nhd. Bürger, M., Bürger, Burgbewohner, Stadtbewohner.



Middle English, from Latin vulgaris of the mob, vulgar, from volgus, vulgus mob, common people

In the same context, there is also Musica Vulgaris in a sense of Folk Music!

The Designation comes from the Latin vulgaris („belonging to the People, Commoner“) orVulgar Latin (in Latin, sermo vulgaris, "folk speech").

In other words: Bulgaria is the land of the Vulgaren.

[Novi Pazar]

Armenian traveler Lehaci wrote:

Оттуда за пять дней мы достигли Босна-Сарая.* Это был большой город, построенный на высокой горе. Через него протекала широкая река, еще большая, чем остальные. Это был благоустроенный и торговый [город] и место купцов. Там сидел беглербек Румелии. Мы разыскали там четырех армянских купцов, которые, утешив нас, с любовью встретили и почтили у себя дома, за что да вознаградит их Господь! Там мы пробыли два дня. Люди той страны – здоровые богатыри, сильные и могучие, рослые и мускулистые; они совсем не знают турецкого языка, но только болгарский. Говорят, что в Румелии, кроме городов, есть 80 тысяч болгарских сел; по исповеданию они греки, а их архиепископ сидит в Атране. Почему же они всем округом приняли мусульманскую веру? Говорят, что как-то прибыли к ним хараджчи, и они из-за нищеты отреклись от веры, чтобы не платить харадж. Тогда хараджчи, собравшись, отправились в Высокую Порту (“Высокие Врата” или “Высокая Порта” (Баб и-Али), так называли Стамбул) и дали понять хондкару, что боснийцы приняли мусульманство не во имя бога, а из-за хараджа. Тогда царь повелел: «Пусть платят [все], хоть и стали мусульманами, кроме хаджи, которые ходили в Мекку». Увидели [62] они, что и веры лишились и харадж платят, стали ходить из-за хараджа в Мекку. Все они хаджи; среди них очень мало платящих харадж, таких называют румелийскими газиями. В Боснии повсюду есть также много болгарских монастырей. В пяти милях [от города] на высокой горе стоит большой известный и великолепный монастырь; нам сказали, что в эту епархию входит триста сел. Войдя внутрь, мы обошли его и благословили бога. Рядом с монастырем находился большой горячий источник, который приводил в движение 12 мельниц. В другом месте, около Хулупа, мы увидели построенные царями большие бассейны и каменные украшения, подобные источникам Бурсы. В Боснии все люди говорят по-болгарски и если клянутся, то, кроме имени Мехмета, ничего по-турецки не знают, поэтому говорят: «Такоми бога и вира Мехметская», то есть «Вот те бог и вера Мехметова», и т. д.

http://www.armenianhouse.org/lekhats...pter1_6.html#5

the above via Google translate:

From there, five days we reached Bosnia-shed .* It was a great city built on a high mountain. Through its extensive river run, even more than the rest. It was comfortable and trade [city] and the place of merchants. There sat beglerbek Rumeli. We found there four Armenian merchants, who will comfort us with love and honor the meet at home, so that the reward of their Lord! There we stayed two days. The people of the country - Bogatyrs healthy, strong and mighty, tall and muscular, and they do not know the Turkish language, but the only Bulgarian. They say that in Rumeli, except the cities, there are 80 thousand Bulgarian villages, on the [*fathe i.e religion] practice of them Greeks, and their archbishop seated in Atrane. Why are they all the district took the Muslim faith? They say that once they arrived haradzhchi, and they are due to poverty denied the faith, not to pay HARAJ. Then haradzhchi met, went to the High Oporto ( "High Gate" or "High-port (and Bab-Ali), the so-called Istanbul) and made it clear hondkaru that Bosnians are not adopted Islam in the name of God, but because of the HARAJ. Then the king commanded: «Let the pay [all], it's become Muslims but Haji, who went to Mecca». See [62] they that have lost faith and HARAJ pay, have to walk because of HARAJ in Mecca. They all Haji, among them very few paying HARAJ such call rumeliyskimi gaziyami. In Bosnia, everywhere there are also many Bulgarian monasteries. At five miles [from the city] on a high mountain is a large well-known and magnificent monastery, we were told that in this diocese are three hundred villages. Once you log in, we walked around it, and blessed God. Near the monastery is a large hot spring, which resulted in the movement of 12 mills. Elsewhere, about Khulup, we saw the kings built large pools and stone ornaments, such as sources of Bursa. In Bosnia, all the people speak in Bulgarian, and if you swear, then, except for the name of Mehmet, nothing in Turkish do not know why say: «Tacoma god and Wira Mehmetskaya», ie «These are the god and faith Mehmetova», and so e.

Translated with: http://translate.google.com/translate

[Novi Pazar]

To moderators, l would rather not have this topic closed and/or moved!

[morski]

http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/uCPXCYHSkao/0.jpg

[Pecheneg]

It was the Turkic Bulgars who gave the name "Bulgaria" to today's Bulgaria. Almost all historians & etymologists accept this.
The name Bulgar is derived from the Turkic verb bulğa ("to mix", "shake, "stir")


http://i48.tinypic.com/jagy2g.jpg

[Partizan]

It was the Turkic Bulgars who gave the name "Bulgaria" to today's Bulgaria. Almost all historians & etymologists accept this.
The name Bulgar is derived from the Turkic verb bulğa ("to mix", "shake, "stir")


http://i48.tinypic.com/jagy2g.jpg

I can't understand,why Bulgarians don't remember this heritage or try to Iranise it? :confused:

We discussed a similar thing about Hungarians in another topic,they have no problem with Magyar and even Hun legacy.However Bulgarians don't like being Bulgarians it seems...

[Pecheneg]

I can't understand,why Bulgarians don't remember this heritage or try to Iranise it? :confused:

Actually i don't care, they can see themselves whatever they want and let them believe in these ahmedinejadoid iranian fantasies. But i only care about the name "Bulgar", it's a Turkic word and originated from Turkic Bulgars, no doubt.

[Germanicus]

I have read somewhere that people from Finland crossed the River Bulgar into modern day Bulgaria, that is why a proportion of Bulgarians have Grey eyes?

[Archduke]

First of all, why this thread is in the Macedonian section? :confused:

Novi Pazar once again make threads which has nothing to do with Macedonia in the Macedonian section. And all this is anti-Bulgarian. Typical Serbian beahvior.
Novi Pazar just shows what Serbs did to debulgarize Vardar Macedonia !!!!!!!!!

As for the Turks here - All good thinking Bulgarians don't deny that Bulgars were Turkic. Even i don't deny it, although i hate Turks.

[ioan assen]

Serbian propaganda nonsense. The Macedonians were described as Bulgarian throuout their medievil history by Byzantine, Venetian, Serbian, Croatian, Papal sources etc. They were not refered to as Serboi. Simply put the Macedonians were refered to by all (and they refered to themselves) as Bulgarians - just like the Moesians and the Thracians. Due to the fact that Austria took control over Serbian populated lands Serbia was "advised" to look south to Macedonia - a Bulgarian land populated by Bulgarians at that time. Not just that: Serboi aquired lands which they previously described as Bulgarian: Nish, Pirot, Western Outlands, Macedonia. So they had to think quick in their propaganda how to justify that all those people who yesterday were Bulgarians (accepted even by Serboi old sources) today had to be "reborn" into Serboi. So the "clever" Serboi propagandists made up the trash Novi presented. Political propaganda aimed at debulgarizing the Bulgarian people in order to serbanize them. Stupidity at its best. Of course rejected by all states minus Serbia and Macedonia (because it can be handy at prooving that Macedonians werent Bulgarians even though they were called Bulgarians by all authors and by themselves).

[Novi Pazar]

It was the Turkic Bulgars who gave the name "Bulgaria" to today's Bulgaria. Almost all historians & etymologists accept this.
The name Bulgar is derived from the Turkic verb bulğa ("to mix", "shake, "stir")


http://i48.tinypic.com/jagy2g.jpg

The point here is not about the origins of the name Bulgar! Yes, we all know its a Turkic name, the Bulgars relatives: 'THE GAUGAZI', refer to themselves as either HASLI or ESKI Bulgars, meaning big or great Bulgars. What l'm trying to get at here is that nations have confused the word Bulgar as meaning: lack of manners, dirty, vulgar, dumb, low class and even to mean as a rebel/barbarian. This word 'Bulgar' was synonymous to a Slav, as Greeks considered Slavs as being a lowly class. The Greeks confused their own words for common man (lower class) for Bulgar because they were similarly spelt and pronounced.

The Slavs of Vardar Macedonia and Northern Greece were called Bulgars, not because they ARE Bulgars but because they were seen to be lowly Slavs. This term 'Bulgar' spread into modern day Bosnia, Serbia and Croatia, to also signify ill breeding, songs were sung in Dalmatia called the 'Bulgarishtice' during poor harvests.

PS This term eventually backfired on Bulgars inside modern Bulgaria, Paisiy noted that Bulgars were ashamed to be called BULGARS! This has all changed today LMAO

[Pecheneg]

Yes, we all know its a Turkic name, the Bulgars relatives: 'THE GAUGAZI', refer to themselves as either HASLI or ESKI Bulgars, meaning big or great Bulgars.

yea i know what "HASLI" & "ESKI" means in Turkic.
HASLI/HAS= pure/original
ESKI= old

btw, Gagauz are Oghuz-Turkic while Bulgars were Oghur-Turkic.
i don't care about the rest.

[Novi Pazar]

^ Do you think the Gagauzi are the decendants of Asparuch. I know your saying they are two different Turkic tribes (old bulgars) and gagauz, whats your take?

[Pecheneg]

^ Do you think the Gagauzi are the decendants of Asparuch. I know your saying they are two different Turkic tribes (old bulgars) and gagauz, whats your take?

There are 2 hypothesis about them;

1-) Seljuk hypothesis;

Gagauz descended from the Seljuk Turks who in the 13th century followed the Seljuk Sultan Kaykaus II (1236–1276) and supposedly settled in the Dobruja region of the medieval Bulgarian kingdom. There they presumably mixed with other Turkic peoples such as Pechenegs, Uz and Cuman (Kipchak) who came from the Eurasian steppe at about the same time. After settling in the eastern Balkans (Bulgaria) this Seljuks are thought to have converted from Islam to Orthodox Christianity in the 13th century and later became known as "Gagauz".

2-) Steppe hypothesis;
Gagauzes may be descendants of the Turkic nomadic tribes (Uz, Bulgars and Kumans) from the Eurasian steppes. Gagauzes at that time called themselves "Hasli Bulgar" (True/Original Bulgars) or "Eski Bulgar" (Old Bulgars) and considered the term "Gagauz" applied to them by the Slavic-speaking Bulgarians (who they called "toukan") demeaning. The Gagauzes called their language Turkish and accordingly claimed descent from early Turkic Bulgars who in the 7th century established the Bulgarian state on Danube.[12] Now many Gagauz in Moldova claim Seljuk-Turkish descent.


Interestingly they called Bulgarians "toukan" and themselves "haslı Bulgar (True Bulgar)"

[rashka]

I wonder if that's where they got the term "Boogeyman" from. :lol:

[Novi Pazar]

I wonder if that's where they got the term "Boogeyman" from. :lol:

As all Serbs call Bulgars 'Bugari' (not Balgari), they are their own Bugeyman LMAO

Rashka, sister, Bugari still have this gruge against Serbs and Serbia. Its astonishing Serbs never had territorial ambitions on the Bugari but Balgari were greedy little creatures, it stung their backsides even in WW2.

When are the Balgari going to rid of the ultra nationalist Ataka (Attack) party which OPENLY advocates territorial expansion into Serbia and Macedonia?

[morski]

As all Serbs call Bulgars 'Bugari' (not Balgari), they are their own Bugeyman LMAO

Rashka, sister, Bugari still have this gruge against Serbs and Serbia. Its astonishing Serbs never had territorial ambitions on the Bugari but Balgari were greedy little creatures, it stung their backsides even in WW2.

When are the Balgari going to rid of the ultra nationalist Ataka (Attack) party which OPENLY advocates territorial expansion into Serbia and Macedonia?

Serb hypocricy never ceases to amaze.

Explain these, Torlak!

A classic case of back-stabbing:


Lured by Austria-Hungary's promises for territorial gains from Bulgaria (in return for concessions in the Western Balkans), Milan IV declared war on Bulgaria on 14 November 1885. The military strategy relied largely on surprise, as Bulgaria had moved most of its troops near the border with the Ottoman Empire, in the southeast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbo-Bulgarian_War

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Greater_Serbia.png

http://www.kroll-antique-maps.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/1000piximages/.pond/Balkans1918ethnographic1000pix.jpg.w560h510.jpg

http://www.history-map.com/picture/000/pictures/Peninsula-Groups-Balkan-Ethnic.jpg

Stop lying, Serb!

[ioan assen]

He is not even real Serboi. He is Torlak. He knows he sold his soul to the devil and now he tries to justify why all Bulgarians should.

[Archduke]

He is not even real Serboi. He is Torlak. He knows he sold his soul to the devil and now he tries to justify why all Bulgarians should.

It makes sense.

Well known fact is that people which sold their true roots and identity are most brutal against their motherland. :(

[Arbërori]

He is not even real Serboi. He is Torlak. He knows he sold his soul to the devil and now he tries to justify why all Bulgarians should.

What's a Torlak? I remember my grandmother would use it as an insult?:eek:
Like as in stupid, ''slow'' person, but Shkije was the # 1 offense.:cool:

[ioan assen]

It makes sense.

Well known fact is that people which sold their true roots and identity are most brutal against their motherland. :(
We have a word in Bulgarian. It comes from Turkish: "Enicharin" - a Bulgarian forcefully taken from his parents to be though for a Turkish soldier. The enichari were also made muslims. They were the most merciless towards the Bulgarians. The case is same here: just substitute Turks with serboi and you got it. I bet he was never accepted as a real Serb.

[Arbërori]

We have a word in Bulgarian. It comes from Turkish: "Enicharin" - a Bulgarian forcefully taken from his parents to be though for a Turkish soldier. The enichari were also made muslims. They were the most merciless towards the Bulgarians. The case is same here: just substitute Turks with serboi and you got it. I bet he was never accepted as a real Serb.

Oh you mean Janissary? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissary.:thumb001:
In Albanian we would say Jeniçer, infact the great Gjergj Kastrioti
was one for most of his teenage years.

[ioan assen]

What's a Torlak? I remember my grandmother would use it as an insult?:eek:
Like as in stupid, ''slow'' person, but Shkije was the # 1 offense.:cool:
Ethnographic group of Bulgarians. They were devided between Serbia and Bulgaria. Most of the Torlaks in Serbia were serbanized, however over 20000 Bulgarians still live in Serbia and all of them are Torlaks. The first written documents in Torlakian calls the language "simple Bulgarian". Thats why Novi insist we leave the language when discussing the ethnicity of the Balkan slavs, because he knows half of Serbia speaks unproper language.

[ioan assen]

Oh you mean Janissary? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissary.:thumb001:
In Albanian we would say Jeniçer, infact the great Gjergj Kastrioti
was one for most of his teenage years.
Yes! The same! I ve read about your great hero Kastrioti: he was a big exception, he also converted back to catholcism. He fought the Turks sucsessfully. Too bad he couldnt organize the western aid as he wanted!

[Arbërori]

Ethnographic group of Bulgarians. They were devided between Serbia and Bulgaria. Most of the Torlaks in Serbia were serbanized, however over 20000 Bulgarians still live in Serbia and all of them are Torlaks. The first written documents in Torlakian calls the language "simple Bulgarian". Thats why Novi insist we leave the language when discussing the ethnicity of the Balkan slavs, because he knows half of Serbia speaks unproper language.

Oh, did they maybe inhabit Nish & most of Southern Serbia?
There were even Albanians, both Muslim & Orthodox inhabiting Nish
for ex., they were actually the majority in 1877-1878 (prior the Russo-
Turkish wars), unless these white little caps are Serbian? :rolleyes:
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/421070_412593305422332_764013531_n.jpg

When did the Serbianization take place? Many Albanian families from
Kosovo hail from Nish, like singer Rona Nishliu, but her family emigrated
to Mitrovica/Shën Dhimitër in the late 19th century.

[Arbërori]

Yes! The same! I ve read about your great hero Kastrioti: he was a big exception, he also converted back to catholcism. He fought the Turks sucsessfully. Too bad he couldnt organize the western aid as he wanted!

He was a great man, unfortunately he died too soon & God knows how the
Balkans would've looked like today if it wasn't for some traitors...:rolleyes:
He also incorporated alot of Pagan Illyrian symbols into his rule, like the
goat on his helmet for ex. Quite interesting life aswell, born Christian Orthodox,
converted Muslim & died Christian Catholic, his descending family currently
lives in the Arbëreshë areas in Italy, still proud Arbëreshë-Albanians.:thumb001:

[ioan assen]

Oh, did they maybe inhabit Nish & most of Southern Serbia?
Yeah. After masive serbanization still over 20000 Bulgarians exists in Serbia.

There were even Albanians, both Muslim & Orthodox inhabiting Nish
for ex., they were actually the majority in 1877-1878 (prior the Russo-
Turkish wars), unless these white little caps are Serbian?
I dont know. I ve read serbian sources that desctibed Nish as one of the most famous Bulgarian cities.

When did the Serbianization take place? Many Albanian families from
Kosovo hail from Nish, like singer Rona Nishliu, but her family emigrated
to Mitrovica/Shën Dhimitër in the late 19th century.
After the Serbs took those places. It wasnt wholy sucsessful: Bulgarians still live in Serbia.

[Arbërori]

Yeah. After masive serbanization still over 20000 Bulgarians exists in Serbia.

I dont know. I ve read serbian sources that desctibed Nish as one of the most famous Bulgarian cities.

After the Serbs took those places. It wasnt wholy sucsessful: Bulgarians still live in Serbia.

The area has been inhabited since prehistory by the Illyrians & Thracians
& during the Ottoman Empire, the Albanians & ofcourse the Bulgarians
must've been the majority: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanjak_of_Ni%C5%A1

It was annexed by the Principality of Serbia after the Russo-Turkish wars.
Another proof that we can coexist with our Bulgarian neighbours, as long
as they're proud & not in denial like the great Shonkeydonians, but Serbs
are a different story... :coffee:

[ioan assen]

He was a great man, unfortunately he died too soon & God knows how the
Balkans would've looked like today if it wasn't for some traitors...:rolleyes:
He also incorporated alot of Pagan Illyrian symbols into his rule, like the
goat on his helmet for ex. Quite interesting life aswell, born Christian Orthodox,
converted Muslim & died Christian Catholic, his descending family currently
lives in the Arbëreshë areas in Italy, still proud Arbëreshë-Albanians.:thumb001:
I ve read about him! Too bad he didnt live long enough to get the Turks out! Amazing his family still survives! You have to be very proud with him. He did make the life of the Turks difficult.

[Arbërori]

I ve read about him! Too bad he didnt live long enough to get the Turks out! Amazing his family still survives! You have to be very proud with him. He did make the life of the Turks difficult.

His great-grandson Giorgio Maria Castriota Scanderbeg has visited
Dibra/Debar twice, here he is with his also Arbëreshë wife:
http://www.lajmeshqip.com/kombetare/sternipi-i-skenderbeut-vizitoi-dibren

The last time he visited was in 2011 & I will quote his words from the same
page: ''I have come to my home, where in 1943, in Dibër, the first statue of
Scanderbeg was erected & later in 2003. I'm not an orator, I'm not
a politician, I'm a normal person. I'm the 14th generation of the Kastrioti
line, I am Albanian & I am proud with you, Dibrans, that value the history
of such a great man!''.:thumb001:

[ioan assen]

uou thats amazing! good for them they kept their familysmemoy alive!

[poiuytrewq0987]

Belgrade was once a "Bulgar" city, u mad?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Culture_of_the_First_Bulgarian_Empire.png

[Novi Pazar]

Bulgars and Albanians finding common ground with their lies LMAO

PS You guys are quite lucky lately considering l have been having problems logging into this forum due to *connection has timed out* bs. I'm patient!

Djordje Kastriota isn't even an Albanian, he was a Slavic prince of the region, his descendant Nobile Loris Kastriota Scanderbegh was one of many who formulated his genealogy.

[Novi Pazar]

Bulgars are spinning the lie of Serbianisation when in FACT it was the other way around!

History has told me of the un-deniable evidence of King Milutin burying himself amongst his own kind in todays Bugarska (not Balgarska), toponyms in western bugarska attest to Serbian origin not Slavo-Turkic. The ex-serbian population of western bugarska used to have a serbian slava, but behold, they continue to celebrate VIDOVDEN. During Ottoman occupation, the western regions of bulgaria were assigned to the patriarchate of Pec (kosovo i metohija) because of its DENSE SERBIAN POPULATION, not Balgari.

PS St. Sava didn't go and visit Balgari in western bugarska, he was visiting his Srbsko narod and to die amongst his narod.

I would like to visit Balgarska one day and see the town called SRBenica ;)

[poiuytrewq0987]

Bulgars and Albanians finding common ground with their lies LMAO

PS You guys are quite lucky lately considering l have been having problems logging into this forum due to *connection has timed out* bs. I'm patient!

Djordje Kastriota isn't even an Albanian, he was a Slavic prince of the region, his descendant Nobile Loris Kastriota Scanderbegh was one of many who formulated his genealogy.

... and your greatest emperor in "Serbian" history Dusan the Mighty was 3/4 Bulgarian. :cry

[ioan assen]

Bulgars and Albanians finding common ground with their lies LMAO

PS You guys are quite lucky lately considering l have been having problems logging into this forum due to *connection has timed out* bs. I'm patient!

Djordje Kastriota isn't even an Albanian, he was a Slavic prince of the region, his descendant Nobile Loris Kastriota Scanderbegh was one of many who formulated his genealogy.

We all know that in your "mind" all heroes are Serboi from Dagestan! Get a life and read a book, because I sense its not cool to be the laughing stock of the forum!

[ioan assen]

Bulgars are spinning the lie of Serbianisation when in FACT it was the other way around!

History has told me of the un-deniable evidence of King Milutin burying himself amongst his own kind in todays Bugarska (not Balgarska), toponyms in western bugarska attest to Serbian origin not Slavo-Turkic. The ex-serbian population of western bugarska used to have a serbian slava, but behold, they continue to celebrate VIDOVDEN. During Ottoman occupation, the western regions of bulgaria were assigned to the patriarchate of Pec (kosovo i metohija) because of its DENSE SERBIAN POPULATION, not Balgari.

PS St. Sava didn't go and visit Balgari in western bugarska, he was visiting his Srbsko narod and to die amongst his narod.

I would like to visit Balgarska one day and see the town called SRBenica ;)
Such a stupid arguments used for centuries by the Serboi nationalists and laughed outside of Serboi land! The fact that a Serboi king was burried in Bulgarian land doesnt proove the populace in which land he was burried was Serboi.
Your St Sava was burried in the Bulgarian caputal Turnovo in Northern Bulgaria - does this makes Ioan Assen II (who burried him there) and all Bulgarians from Turnovo Serboi? And the strangest thing that all your arguments are THAT laughable!
Another blant Serboi lie - Sava was not visiting western Bulgaria, he died in Turnovo which is in Northern Bulgaria!!! He was coming back from Erusalim through Bulgaria, he was not visiting any Bulgarians! Pathethic Novis lies! Again exposed!
The fact that the Serboi managed to impose some of their customs just prooves that there was a cultural influence, nothing more! Hell our churches are copies of the Greek one: in your logic the whole orthodox Balkans are Hellens! Your alphabeth, your whole culture is copy paste of the Bulgarian one yet we claim only the Bulgarians not the real serboi from Western Serbia!
Look at Torlakia: they speak Bulgarian. According to them, before the oppressive serbanization they were speaking "simple Bulgarian". With your lies you try to hide the truth but there are more than enough sources from that period NOT oppinions of serbomans, ex Bulgarian Torlaks etc!

[Novi Pazar]

... and your greatest emperor in "Serbian" history Dusan the Mighty was 3/4 Bulgarian. :cry

Whats that supposed to mean? His a Bulgar? Let me teach you something, kings and queens were married off to foreigners to keep the peace....GET IT? It tells me that Bulgars were crapping in their pants for them to be giving away their women to Serb princes and kings ;)

[poiuytrewq0987]

Whats that supposed to mean? His a Bulgar? Let me teach you something, kings and queens were married off to foreigners to keep the peace....GET IT? It tells me that Bulgars were crapping in their pants for them to be giving away their women to Serb princes and kings ;)

I thought Bulgarians didn't exist according to you and now you recognize them here. I'm confused. :icon_ask: Bulgarians didn't crap in their pants but married away unimportant daughters and sons to Serbs for future Bulgarization of your kings and indeed the greatest Serbian king was more Bulgarian than Serbian... I wonder if that has any correlation. :thumb001:

[Novi Pazar]

Such a stupid arguments used for centuries by the Serboi nationalists and laughed outside of Serboi land! The fact that a Serboi king was burried in Bulgarian land doesnt proove the populace in which land he was burried was Serboi.
Your St Sava was burried in the Bulgarian caputal Turnovo in Northern Bulgaria - does this makes Ioan Assen II (who burried him there) and all Bulgarians from Turnovo Serboi? And the strangest thing that all your arguments are THAT laughable!
Another blant Serboi lie - Sava was not visiting western Bulgaria, he died in Turnovo which is in Northern Bulgaria!!! He was coming back from Erusalim through Bulgaria, he was not visiting any Bulgarians! Pathethic Novis lies! Again exposed!
The fact that the Serboi managed to impose some of their customs just prooves that there was a cultural influence, nothing more! Hell our churches are copies of the Greek one: in your logic the whole orthodox Balkans are Hellens! Your alphabeth, your whole culture is copy paste of the Bulgarian one yet we claim only the Bulgarians not the real serboi from Western Serbia!
Look at Torlakia: they speak Bulgarian. According to them, before the oppressive serbanization they were speaking "simple Bulgarian". With your lies you try to hide the truth but there are more than enough sources from that period NOT oppinions of serbomans, ex Bulgarian Torlaks etc!

Ex-Bulgarian torlakians is unfounded and a myth like most of Bulgarian history in the South Balkans. Eventhou language is NOT an indicator for ethnicity, modern Bulgarian and Serbian was NOT the same spoken language 1000 years ago because otherwise your LOGIC FAILS, why? If we take your simplistic logic, then the language of Old Church Slavonic is structurally Serbian Slavic because they have the same DECLENSIONAL SYSTEM AS MODERN SERBIAN, not modern Bulgarian. We always hear this stupid reasoning of simple Bulgarian everyime, well, Torlakian and Shopski is actually too complex to be Bulgarian because they too have a Declensional system, so in essence, Torlakian and Shopski is in fact simple Serbian, like Macedonian ;)

Explain to me why King Milutin buried himself in the Serbian lands of modern Western Bugarska, not Balgarska?

[ioan assen]

Ex-Bulgarian torlakians is unfounded and a myth like most of Bulgarian history in the South Balkans.
Lets see DIRECT SOURCES.
Manuscript from Temska Monastery is a collection of writings from 1764.( A CENTURY AND 10 YEARS BEFORE THE EXARCHATE, which according to Novi turned all Serboi into Bulgarians!!!!)
The title of the manuscript is "Selected words from the weekly mental rituals. In simple Bulgarian language The manuscript is composed of the monk of Pirot Cyril Zhivkovich (1730 - 1807) in the Temska Monastery near the village of Temska, in Pirot district.
According to Kyril himself, he was born "in the city of Pirot, in the Bulgarian lands, in year 1730".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuscript_from_Temska_Monastery
So much for trying to falsify Bulgarian history! Its well known fact Nish and Pirot were Bulgarian cities till 1 century and a half. Before brutal serbanization took place! Yet over 20000 Bulgarians (Torlaks who are not Janissaries) still live in the stolen lands!


Eventhou language is NOT an indicator for ethnicity, modern Bulgarian and Serbian was NOT the same spoken language 1000 years ago because otherwise your LOGIC FAILS, why?
Language HAS ALWAYS BEEN the indicator for ones true ethnicity - a concept disliked in Belgrade, because southeastern serbia speaks "unproper" Serbian with Bulgarian grammer (the hardest thing to change) with imosed Serboi lexical influences (easiest thing to aquire just look at the amount of English words we use).

If we take your simplistic logic, then the language of Old Church Slavonic is structurally Serbian Slavic because they have the same DECLENSIONAL SYSTEM AS MODERN SERBIAN, not modern Bulgarian.
The fact that Old Chrurch Slavonic gradualy lost (prooved by Bulgarian sources, we were first to write our language remember - you copy pasted it for couple of centuries, so there are enough WRITTEN evidences) its declensional system and turned into modern Bulgarian and Macedonian has ZERO to do with the inferior Serboi lang. As always you try to claim smth Bulgarian with STUPID arguments obviously because you dont have too much things to pride your newfound serbianess on. OCSlavonic is prooved to be the language from which Bulgarian and Macedonian evolved since 19 centuries by German linguists. They are still NOT dispoven by any linguists. If you have some serious linguist analysis saying otherwise please post it. But I ll not comment on stupid remarks that if OCS had declenational system it makes it Serbian - no linguist has linked your savage language with classical OCS! Actually the Bulgarian Konstantin Kostenechki went to Serboi land and reintroduced Bulgarian features in your writing and you called them "classical" because you used Bulgarian language at first!!!

We always hear this stupid reasoning of simple Bulgarian everyime, well, Torlakian and Shopski is actually too complex to be Bulgarian because they too have a Declensional system, so in essence, Torlakian and Shopski is in fact simple Serbian, like Macedonian ;)
Both are classified as south EASTERN slavic UNLIKE Serboi language, both have the same grammer as Bulgarian! Bulgarian, Macedonian and Toorlakian are the same language and are spoken where the Bulgarian state was established! Serboi lang is not even in the same group: its southWESTERN slavic together with Croatian, Bosnian and Slovene.



Explain to me why King Milutin buried himself in the Serbian lands of modern Western Bugarska, not Balgarska?
He didnt bury HIMSELF unless he was a vampire, a ghoast etc. He was NOT burried in Sofia by the way! He was burried in Banjska Monastery (a Serb Orthodox monastery in the Banjska village near Zvečan in the north of Kosovo). Maria Brankova (Mehmeds II wife) ordered his remains to be TRANSFERED to Sofia.

[Novi Pazar]

Its getting dumb and dummer with the Bulgars here LMAO

"Cyril Zhivkovich"

Cyril was not a linguist, his was a MONK. Torlakian/Shopski have declensions, as do standard serbian. Bulgarian does not have them and is structurally different, its structurally, could be, considered as Romanian!

Read and learn below:

The dialects of the Prizren—Timok [i.e. Torlakian] zone have evolved from the easternmost group of Štokavian dialects. Their Serbo-Croatian origin is clearly testified by those characteristics given in § 5 [that is, the characteristics of the Western South Slavonic dialects also present in Torlakian], and their belonging to the Štokavian dialectal group is manifested through the presence of Štokavian innovations such as *skj, *stj, *zgj, *zdj > št, žđ; čr- > cr-, vь > u-, and vs- > sv-, and on the other hand, through the lack of innovations that occur in Čakavian and Kajkavian dialects. The difference between these dialects and their southeastern and eastern neighbouring dialects of the Macedonian and Bulgarian languages, was clear and strong even during the time of Slavonic migrations to the Balkans (§ 5). However, differences between Torlakian and Štokavian were even not present at all at first. These dialects were barely distinct from the present-day Kosovo—Resava dialect (which, after all, is still lively connected to this dialectal group, cf. § 101). The only significant phonetic specific was the change l̩ > lu in a few cases, however only existent in Prizren—South Morava area. It is very specific that yat here, like elsewhere in Štokavian dialects, before being rendered became closer than vowel /ɛ/, which is supported by the state in Krašovan dialect, which originates from this area (§ 220)."
"§ 126. The central event in the later evolution of the dialects from the Prizren—Timok zone was the appearance of the so-called balkanisms, characteristics specific for other Balkan languages, Slavonic and non-Slavonic. (The significance of these features is pretty high, giving that none of the mentioned Prizren—Timok archaisms makes an absolute boundary toward the standard Štokavian type: the reflex of semivowel is preserved as a distinct phoneme in many speeches of the Zeta—Sjenica dialect as well, the syllabic l in almost all Prizren—Timok speeches has evolved into /u/ after all in a few examples, and the final -l hasn’t been left unaltered on the whole area of this dialectal zone.) The lack of pitch oppositions (of quality as well as quantity), the analytic comparison, and the doubled use of personal pronouns is also found in the Greek, Romanian, Albanian, Bulgarian, and Macedonian languages. The same can be applied to omitting the infinitive. The analytic principle exists in Bulgarian and Macedonian declensions, too. Modern Greek, Romanian, and Albanian declensions show these simplifications as well, and tend to use a reduced number of grammatical cases. The usage of the three postpositive pronouns is common in most of the Macedonian dialects, and in other Macedonian dialects and the huge majority of Bulgarian ones the true postpositive article has evolved. The true origin of each of these characteristics is not clear yet, but it is certain that they have been transmitted from one Balkan language into another. It is clear that these balkanisms in the Prizren—Timok dialect have not evolved spontaneously, but have rather been brought from the neighbouring languages. [...] After all, it is clear that the dialects of the Prizren—Timok zone have entered the Balkansprachbund not sooner than the 15th century. Therefore, the main isoglosses that connect the Prizren—Timok dialects with the Bulgarian and Macedonian languages are chronologically only secondary in relation to those that show their connections with other Štokavian dialects. Thus they, even though they may be important for the typological characterization of the dialects, yet mean nothing when it comes to their origin. (Although the structural phenomena may be linguistically important, it cannot be used as a criteria for defining the connections between language types. [...] If only structural criteria was taken in count, one would have acquired most absurd conclusions, e.g. that Macedonian and Bulgarian dialects are closer to Aromanian and Romanian than Slavonic languages.)"

Pavle Ivić, "Dijalektologija srpskohrvatskog jezika" (The Dialectology of the Serbo-Croatian language)

[Novi Pazar]

"Language HAS ALWAYS BEEN the indicator for ones true ethnicity - a concept disliked in Belgrade, because southeastern serbia speaks "unproper" Serbian with Bulgarian grammer (the hardest thing to change) with imosed Serboi lexical influences (easiest thing to aquire just look at the amount of English words we use)."

Read above! Again, if we take your simplistic logic without history/culture and migrations, then its safe to say Old Church Slavonic is Serbian because todays modern form has slavonic declensions as did Old Church!

So once again, if l were to take your simplistic logic, then the Wendish Serbs are polish and Serbs are Croats or Slovenians?

The fact that Old Chrurch Slavonic gradualy lost (prooved by Bulgarian sources, we were first to write our language remember - you copy pasted it for couple of centuries, so there are enough WRITTEN evidences) its declensional system and turned into modern Bulgarian and Macedonian has ZERO to do with the inferior Serboi lang. As always you try to claim smth Bulgarian with STUPID arguments obviously because you dont have too much things to pride your newfound serbianess on. OCSlavonic is prooved to be the language from which Bulgarian and Macedonian evolved since 19 centuries by German linguists. They are still NOT dispoven by any linguists. If you have some serious linguist analysis saying otherwise please post it. But I ll not comment on stupid remarks that if OCS had declenational system it makes it Serbian - no linguist has linked your savage language with classical OCS! Actually the Bulgarian Konstantin Kostenechki went to Serboi land and reintroduced Bulgarian features in your writing and you called them "classical" because you used Bulgarian language at first!!!

Again, you just refer to the 19th century! FACTUALLY, historians had corrected the errors by classifying it correctly as Old Church Slavonic. Before it was wrongly classified by Germans, the language was known as OLD CHURCH SLOVENIAN. Why did the Germans make this error, well, they simply just placed this language within Bulgarian because they believed the wrong Greek sources and saw that the Bulgarian Exarchos was in full swing which the people supported OUT OF FEAR.

FYI, there was no language called Bulgarian/Serbian/Slovenian during OCS, it was simply known as SLAV or SLAVIC. Clement never called the language as Bulgarian he called it SLAVIC, like Rod Slovensk.

PS The historians got it right in the 20th century, why would you call slavic, Old Bulgarian when Bulgarian is the language of TURKS!

"TRANSFERED to Sofia."

Because Serbs were known to have a dense population in western bulgaria, hence why they were assigned to the Patriarchate of Pec. Srbusko Selo and Samokov (formerly known as Srpsko Samokov) are testament to the Ex-Serbs that were Bulgarianised.

[Archduke]

edited

[morski]

Torlak dialects have Blgarian grammar,though. Stop spreading disinformation.

How's the weather in Tokyo, btw?:D

[Novi Pazar]

One of the greatest defenders against the Ottomans was Albanian, in fact he returned to the Albanian dominated areas, his homeland, not the crumbling Serbian ones when he betrayed the Turks.

Serbs like you seem like the biggest revisionists in history.

No, l'm not, Djordje Kastriota's family bore Serbian Slavic names not Shqiptar-Albanian. I will visit the Albanian forum and educate you with the truth!

PS I will one day visit the church of Jovan Vladimir in Elbasan, what a great Serbo-montenegrin ruler he was of Slavic Albania!

[Archduke]

No, l'm not, Djordje Kastriota's family bore Serbian Slavic names not Shqiptar-Albanian. I will visit the Albanian forum and educate you with the truth!

PS I will one day visit the church of Jovan Vladimir in Elbasan, what a great Serbo-montenegrin ruler he was of Slavic Albania!

ooohhhhh nooo, the troll will spam in the albanian section too.

get ready alboz.

:picard1:

[Novi Pazar]

Torlak dialects have Blgarian grammar,though. Stop spreading disinformation.

How's the weather in Tokyo, btw?:D

Explain to me why in Ex-Serbian *Vidin* they use ga/gu not go/gi or say sve not vse or udovica not vdovica, sveca not svest, crn not chern, u not v etc....

I think you need to look at yourself in the mirror and say that to yourself!

[dralos]

he will bring the truth to us,as if we dont hear enough serbian truth=serbian propaganda

[Archduke]

Explain to me why in Ex-Serbian *Vidin* they use ga/gu not go/gi or say sve not vse or udovica not vdovica, sveca not svest, crn not chern, u not v etc....

I think you need to look at yourself in the mirror and say that to yourself!

I have friends from Vidin and they don't use these ugly Serbian words. :D

You should explain why there are many Serbs with surnames endind in ov/ova.

PS Novi Pazar you don't even know Serbian, i probably know it more than you, so arguing with you for such things is necessary.

[morski]

Explain to me why in Ex-Serbian *Vidin* they use ga/gu not go/gi or say sve not vse or udovica not vdovica, sveca not svest, crn not chern, u not v etc....

I think you need to look at yourself in the mirror and say that to yourself!

A bloke from Tran once said: У Ниш и Пирот сви су българи!

:D:cool:

[Archduke]

A bloke from Tran once said: У Ниш и Пирот сви су българи!

:D:cool:

morski, he will not understand you. :D

[Methmatician]

Wouldnt surprise me if Tsar Dushan was actually Bulgarian.

He was half Bulgarian.

[Loki]

To moderators, l would rather not have this topic closed and/or moved!

I moved it to the Bulgarian section where it belongs.

[Prengs]

No, l'm not, Djordje Kastriota's family bore Serbian Slavic names not Shqiptar-Albanian. I will visit the Albanian forum and educate you with the truth!

PS I will one day visit the church of Jovan Vladimir in Elbasan, what a great Serbo-montenegrin ruler he was of Slavic Albania!

You already have pissed from Albanians in the balkan forum about your idiot syndrome. Skanderbeg was who kicked Serbs in the Kosova battle 1448. He has mentioned in his personal papers several times how proud Albanian was.

Better learn how the biggest serbian clan Karađorđević that rules Serbs for 200 years, and were of Albanian descent.

[ioan assen]

Its getting dumb and dummer with the Bulgars here LMAO

"Cyril Zhivkovich"

Cyril was not a linguist, his was a MONK. Torlakian/Shopski have declensions, as do standard serbian. Bulgarian does not have them and is structurally different, its structurally, could be, considered as Romanian!

Read and learn below:

The dialects of the Prizren—Timok [i.e. Torlakian] zone have evolved from the easternmost group of Štokavian dialects. Their Serbo-Croatian origin is clearly testified by those characteristics given in § 5 [that is, the characteristics of the Western South Slavonic dialects also present in Torlakian], and their belonging to the Štokavian dialectal group is manifested through the presence of Štokavian innovations such as *skj, *stj, *zgj, *zdj > št, žđ; čr- > cr-, vь > u-, and vs- > sv-, and on the other hand, through the lack of innovations that occur in Čakavian and Kajkavian dialects. The difference between these dialects and their southeastern and eastern neighbouring dialects of the Macedonian and Bulgarian languages, was clear and strong even during the time of Slavonic migrations to the Balkans (§ 5). However, differences between Torlakian and Štokavian were even not present at all at first. These dialects were barely distinct from the present-day Kosovo—Resava dialect (which, after all, is still lively connected to this dialectal group, cf. § 101). The only significant phonetic specific was the change l̩ > lu in a few cases, however only existent in Prizren—South Morava area. It is very specific that yat here, like elsewhere in Štokavian dialects, before being rendered became closer than vowel /ɛ/, which is supported by the state in Krašovan dialect, which originates from this area (§ 220)."
"§ 126. The central event in the later evolution of the dialects from the Prizren—Timok zone was the appearance of the so-called balkanisms, characteristics specific for other Balkan languages, Slavonic and non-Slavonic. (The significance of these features is pretty high, giving that none of the mentioned Prizren—Timok archaisms makes an absolute boundary toward the standard Štokavian type: the reflex of semivowel is preserved as a distinct phoneme in many speeches of the Zeta—Sjenica dialect as well, the syllabic l in almost all Prizren—Timok speeches has evolved into /u/ after all in a few examples, and the final -l hasn’t been left unaltered on the whole area of this dialectal zone.) The lack of pitch oppositions (of quality as well as quantity), the analytic comparison, and the doubled use of personal pronouns is also found in the Greek, Romanian, Albanian, Bulgarian, and Macedonian languages. The same can be applied to omitting the infinitive. The analytic principle exists in Bulgarian and Macedonian declensions, too. Modern Greek, Romanian, and Albanian declensions show these simplifications as well, and tend to use a reduced number of grammatical cases. The usage of the three postpositive pronouns is common in most of the Macedonian dialects, and in other Macedonian dialects and the huge majority of Bulgarian ones the true postpositive article has evolved. The true origin of each of these characteristics is not clear yet, but it is certain that they have been transmitted from one Balkan language into another. It is clear that these balkanisms in the Prizren—Timok dialect have not evolved spontaneously, but have rather been brought from the neighbouring languages. [...] After all, it is clear that the dialects of the Prizren—Timok zone have entered the Balkansprachbund not sooner than the 15th century. Therefore, the main isoglosses that connect the Prizren—Timok dialects with the Bulgarian and Macedonian languages are chronologically only secondary in relation to those that show their connections with other Štokavian dialects. Thus they, even though they may be important for the typological characterization of the dialects, yet mean nothing when it comes to their origin. (Although the structural phenomena may be linguistically important, it cannot be used as a criteria for defining the connections between language types. [...] If only structural criteria was taken in count, one would have acquired most absurd conclusions, e.g. that Macedonian and Bulgarian dialects are closer to Aromanian and Romanian than Slavonic languages.)"

Pavle Ivić, "Dijalektologija srpskohrvatskog jezika" (The Dialectology of the Serbo-Croatian language)
As always nothing to comment here. Again some Yugoslavian propaganda which no one outside of Serbia ever bothers to read.

[ioan assen]

"Language HAS ALWAYS BEEN the indicator for ones true ethnicity - a concept disliked in Belgrade, because southeastern serbia speaks "unproper" Serbian with Bulgarian grammer (the hardest thing to change) with imosed Serboi lexical influences (easiest thing to aquire just look at the amount of English words we use)."

Read above! Again, if we take your simplistic logic without history/culture and migrations, then its safe to say Old Church Slavonic is Serbian because todays modern form has slavonic declensions as did Old Church!

So once again, if l were to take your simplistic logic, then the Wendish Serbs are polish and Serbs are Croats or Slovenians?

The fact that Old Chrurch Slavonic gradualy lost (prooved by Bulgarian sources, we were first to write our language remember - you copy pasted it for couple of centuries, so there are enough WRITTEN evidences) its declensional system and turned into modern Bulgarian and Macedonian has ZERO to do with the inferior Serboi lang. As always you try to claim smth Bulgarian with STUPID arguments obviously because you dont have too much things to pride your newfound serbianess on. OCSlavonic is prooved to be the language from which Bulgarian and Macedonian evolved since 19 centuries by German linguists. They are still NOT dispoven by any linguists. If you have some serious linguist analysis saying otherwise please post it. But I ll not comment on stupid remarks that if OCS had declenational system it makes it Serbian - no linguist has linked your savage language with classical OCS! Actually the Bulgarian Konstantin Kostenechki went to Serboi land and reintroduced Bulgarian features in your writing and you called them "classical" because you used Bulgarian language at first!!!

Again, you just refer to the 19th century! FACTUALLY, historians had corrected the errors by classifying it correctly as Old Church Slavonic. Before it was wrongly classified by Germans, the language was known as OLD CHURCH SLOVENIAN. Why did the Germans make this error, well, they simply just placed this language within Bulgarian because they believed the wrong Greek sources and saw that the Bulgarian Exarchos was in full swing which the people supported OUT OF FEAR.

FYI, there was no language called Bulgarian/Serbian/Slovenian during OCS, it was simply known as SLAV or SLAVIC. Clement never called the language as Bulgarian he called it SLAVIC, like Rod Slovensk.

PS The historians got it right in the 20th century, why would you call slavic, Old Bulgarian when Bulgarian is the language of TURKS!

"TRANSFERED to Sofia."

Because Serbs were known to have a dense population in western bulgaria, hence why they were assigned to the Patriarchate of Pec. Srbusko Selo and Samokov (formerly known as Srpsko Samokov) are testament to the Ex-Serbs that were Bulgarianised.


No linguists ever connected your savage speech with OCSlavonic! Sorry! No matter how you try you can not change the fact that Bulgarian was the first written slavic language, that you copy pasted our books and alphabeth (basicly our culture).
Wendish Serbs are definately more related to the polish than to the Serboi and Serboi are more related to Croats or Slovenians than to any other slavics. Its well known fact that when the Byzantine emperor let his serfs Serboi settle in western Servia, they were settled among other, previously settled slavic tribes and Avars. Wendish Serboi from Asia mixed with polish slavs. Read some real linguistic research. The southslavic was already devided into Southeastern and Southwestern slavic by the time Cyril and Methodius translated the bible nto slavic. Its proven that their slavic already possesed features found only in Bulgarian and Macedonian, not in Serboian! Please post prepared. You are in your forties, I know you just copy paste your serbian propaganda but still in that age you must know the basic stuff.
The statement that Bulgarian is Turkic is as laughable as me staything that Serbian is Dagestanic unslavic language (which has more grounds!).
There was never vast Serbian populace in Bulgaria, however how of Serbia has Bulgarian origin. Even PRESENTLY you have Bulgarian minority with over 20000 Torlaks who identify as Bulgarian, as their grandpas did.

[poiuytrewq0987]

So I heard the other day that the Italian automaker Bugatti thought up of the name thanks to Serbs sayin Bugar... yes, really. :D

http://derickg.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Bugatti_Renaissance.jpg

[Novi Pazar]

I thought Bulgarians didn't exist according to you and now you recognize them here. I'm confused. :icon_ask: Bulgarians didn't crap in their pants but married away unimportant daughters and sons to Serbs for future Bulgarization of your kings and indeed the greatest Serbian king was more Bulgarian than Serbian... I wonder if that has any correlation. :thumb001:

They never existed in Macedonia, man what is wrong with some of you here :picard2:

[Novi Pazar]

I moved it to the Bulgarian section where it belongs.

Why Loki, there are Bulgarian topics in places that are not Bulgarian, so why is mine different?

[Archduke]

Why Loki, there are Bulgarian topics in places that are not Bulgarian, so why is mine different?

i don't post about serbia in the macedonian forum you troll.

[Midori]

i don't post about serbia in the macedonian forum you troll.

No but you post about Bulgaria. Macedonians care way more about Serbia than Bulgaria lol :D

[Archduke]

No but you post about Bulgaria. Macedonians care way more about Serbia than Bulgaria lol :D

I post only historical truths, nothing for Bulgaria sweety. :coffee:

[Midori]

I post only historical truths, nothing for Bulgaria sweety. :coffee:

Well, no one cares either way.

[Archduke]

Well, no one cares either way.

They obvioulsy care since my threads are always being attacked by serbomans and macedonists.

[ioan assen]

Well, no one cares either way.
Thanks for prooving our point that the Serbomans dont care abouth the real history of the Macedonians.

[Midori]

Thanks for prooving our point that the Serbomans dont care abouth the real history of the Macedonians.

Real history =/= Bulgarian propaganda :laugh:

[Lithium]

Real history =/= Bulgarian propaganda :laugh:

Real history =/= Serbian propaganda :D

[Novi Pazar]

Real history =/= Serbian propaganda :D

Lets be honest, before 1872, Bulgars would have no claims to Vardar macedonia. All your references, 98% plus, which are themed from the late 19th century.

Its easy to see who is manufacturing propaganda......sofia!

[Archduke]

Lets be honest, before 1872, Bulgars would have no claims to Vardar macedonia. All your references, 98% plus, which are themed from the late 19th century.

Its easy to see who is manufacturing propaganda......sofia!

I showed you so many sources before 1872 (and not only me), yet your primitive brain can't accept them. How brainwashed and stupid you can be?!

[Arbërori]

I showed you so many sources before 1872 (and not only me), yet your primitive brain can't accept them. How brainwashed and stupid you can be?!

I've been reading some of this guy's posts & well... I would love to drink what he's having.:D

And lul'z @ the deliberate ignore on some arguments, priceless.:cool:

[Archduke]

I've been reading some of this guy's posts & well... I would love to drink what he's having.:D

And lul'z @ the deliberate ignore on some arguments, priceless.:cool:

The most funny thing is that he is not Serbian, just an Aussie with distant Serbian ancestry. :D

[Arbërori]

The most funny thing is that he is not Serbian, just an Aussie with distant Serbian ancestry. :D

Ugh shit, those late niggaz are the worst. :picard1: