The Meddest?

[Comte Arnau]

Which of these European territories do you consider the most typically Mediterranean?

Vote! :) Multiple choice allowed.

http://oi50.tinypic.com/2804501.jpg

[Sikeliot]

Typically Mediterranean in the sense that you couldn't call them anything else?

Sardinia, Southern Italy/Sicily and Malta.

The parts of Spain highlighted can still be considered Western European, as can southern France. Northern and NE Italy have traces of Central Europe and I'd assume they don't feel completely Mediterranean. Greece and the western Balkans also has a Balkan character enough that you could say the same.

[Damião de Góis]

I don't know but Croatia sells itself as the real deal:

YPf0HxiJYb0

[askra]

We should define the meaning of the term med, before.

I have never understood what it means really, considering that first of all the mediterranean is a sea, so it is primarily an obstacle that divides populations who live in 3 continents, culturally and ethnically different.
Similar terms are often used for other populations like the baltics or the atlantics, but humans live on land masses, not in the sea.

In my opinion only true mediterraneans are the fishes, the cetaceans and all the other creatures who live in the water, not human beings. :)

[Virtuous]

Malta is the meddest and also the "middlest" in the whole Mediterranean :D

Bullshit aside, I think Malta is the most Med, 'cause we had conquerors and people mixing from all over the Med so yeah...

[Comte Arnau]

Ok, let's put some ideas or conditions sine qua non. :D

1. Med coastline, nice sand beaches
2. Med weather
3. Olive oil and Med diet in general (veggies and fruits, fresh Med seafood, rice, poultry...)
4. A rather sociable/outdoor way of life
5. Med phenotypes
6. "Meddish architecture" (white-looking seaside little towns, tourist resorts...)
Etc.

[Partizan]

I consider Malta,Sicily,South Italy and Greece as Meddest.

[Arbërori]

When I think of the Mediterranean, I usually think of
Southern Italy & Sicily, Greece & Crete & also Croatia,
but the latest has got other differences aswell, while
when thinking of Bosnia & Montenegro, they're more
mountain-like, Dinaric overall when they come to mind.

Albania can also be very Mediterranean (especially in
the South), but it's people are pure Balkanoids.

I would also include Malta, but to be frank, I'm quite
clueless on it & til' recently, didn''t even know where
it was located - although I would love to visit!:thumb001:

[Septentrion]

Italy,Spain,Portugal,Albania and Greece, Corsica,Malta are Europe's most Mediterranean populations.

[Corvus]

You are all Mediterranian. Deal with it

[Vesuvian Sky]

http://imageshack.us/a/img27/5241/2804501.jpg

Yes! The Kingdom of Naples is back!:cool:

[Γέλως]

You are all Mediterranian. Deal with it
And you are an American. Deal with it.

[Corvus]

And you are an American. Deal with it.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/27474104.jpg

[Rouxinol]

This is about culture, or at least I am understanding the thread in that way. I voted for Southern Italy, Malta and Greece, taking into account Count Arnau's conditions.

[Leliana]

All but NE Italy (Romagna & Venice), Croatia / Bosnia / Montenegro and Albania.

[Peyrol]

Italy,Spain,Portugal,Albania and Greece, Corsica,Malta are Europe's most Mediterranean populations.

Nope.

The country as whole isn't only ''mediterranean''.
How 61 million people with different background could be all ''meds'', even if some regions haven't med sea since paleozhoic, like Lombardy or Piemont?

Sardinia is probabili the ''most med region'' in Europe.

[Gaijin]

Italy,Spain,Portugal,Albania and Greece, Corsica,Malta are Europe's most Mediterranean populations.

Portugal is an Atlantic country.

[Smaug]

Southern France, Southern Italy and Greece

[Rouxinol]

Italy,Spain,Portugal,Albania and Greece, Corsica,Malta are Europe's most Mediterranean populations.

Wrong. Only in 12 posts you've made so far your agenda is crystal clear, Aviane. Portugal is far away from the Mediterranean Sea, its coast is fully Atlantic and most Portuguese people haven't ever seen or bathed in such sea and some regions of countries with coastal areas bathed by the Mediterranean are promoted here by travel agencies as exotic places, like the Caribbean of Europe, due to its turquoise waters and considerable higher water temperatures (while in most Portuguese beaches - except in the Algarve - we get 17ºC/18ºC at best in the summer season, in the Mediterranean they are usually over 22ºC). Usually those who can't afford a transatlantic flight to the Caribbean, Brazil or Florida go to Sicily, the Greek islands or the Baleares.

[Peyrol]

Lol @ all the people who voted Venice and Romagna.

[askra]

Nope.

Sardinia is probabili the ''most med region'' in Europe.

In Sardinia there is a famous adage which says "the Mediterranean is the place from where all misfortunes and the robbers come", after all we are the population in the mediterranean sea, together to the Corsicans (the real Corsicans), that have had the least relations with the sea, having lived far from the coasts for thousands years.

[dralos]

albania is very med especially in south much more than northitaly,croatia,bosnia and montenegro

[Leon_C]

U med bro?

[dralos]

U med bro?
who me?

[Leon_C]

This is medness!

This is spartaaa!

[Ouistreham]

Portugal is far away from the Mediterranean Sea, its coast is fully Atlantic and most Portuguese people haven't ever seen or bathed in such sea and some regions of countries with coastal areas bathed by the Mediterranean are promoted here by travel agencies as exotic places, like the Caribbean of Europe, due to its turquoise waters and considerable higher water temperatures (while in most Portuguese beaches - except in the Algarve - we get 17ºC/18ºC at best in the summer season, in the Mediterranean they are usually over 22ºC).

That makes a tremendous difference.

"L'Enfer, c'est les autres"
(JP Sartre)
La Méditerranée aussi. :)

[Toretto]

All Country on the mediterranean sea.

especially South Italy

[Rouxinol]

That makes a tremendous difference.

"L'Enfer, c'est les autres"
(JP Sartre)
La Méditerranée aussi. :)

Non, non, ce n'est pas vrai mon cher. It makes a tremendous difference indeed. The only regions of Portugal that are Mediterranean-like (despite not having any Mediterranean sea around) are the Algarve (above all) and, by extension, the Alentejo. The bulk of the country, center and north, are anything but Mediterranean. There are differences in social behavior, in cuisine (more hearty as more north one goes), in architecture. In terms of phenotypical distribution/scope it is basically the same country-wise, but that's not what this thread is all about.

As a matter of fact, a typical village from the Algarve is closer to Marseille (France) in appearance and mindset than to a northern Portuguese village, even though geographically southwards. Examples:

Typical central/northern Portuguese villages:

Ponte de Lima
http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/68813_440663225987766_1494845878_n.jpg

Vila do Conde
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Rua_da_Igreja_Vila_do_Conde.JPG

Guimarães
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/561999_492642187422128_1544813254_n.jpg

Typical southern Portuguese villages:

Albufeira
http://luzportugal.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/albufeira-view-tourist.jpg

Vilamoura
http://www.portugaltours.com.pt/userfiles/image/blog/vilamoura-marina.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--qrLHJA2uYs/Ty7XJrDl-FI/AAAAAAAAQEY/WlBeai6rkfM/s1600/DSC00048.JPG

Mediterranean France cities:

Nice
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01909/nice-beach_1909152b.jpg

Marseille
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Hafen_von_Marseille-Notre_Dame_de_la_Garde.jpg

[Catrau]

That makes a tremendous difference.

"L'Enfer, c'est les autres"
(JP Sartre)
La Méditerranée aussi. :)

Now I'm pretty sure you're a Troll, the first frenchie troll I've seen around. Do you want a medal? It will be a cork one.


Take a map and look at it. If Portugal is hardcore med so the whole of France is.
We do have cultural influences from the roman occupation but we are a people of the Atlantic facade. Since ever and ever.

There is nothing wrong about being med, a culture that I admire and have dominated the world for millennia and also where lies some of the most important features of the modern world organization.

Open you eyes, this where the deepest Portuguese roots lie.

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Megalithic_Culture-1_zpsde8bfa8e.png

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Menir6_zpsd37aa74b.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/menir1_zps5944b8f0.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Menir2_zps3e0a58bb.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Menir4_zpsfca99e86.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Menir7_zps2c6da39c.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Menir8_zps8fedd9b3.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Menir9_zpsef7265c4.jpeg

Do you understand what I mean? Or do you want me to explain you slowly?

Are you going to discuss this time or just fart and run away to not smell your own "gas"?
Also, for the record, your passages in the forum can give to the more distracted the feeling that you are an educated person and that your scribbles have ground, this time across a quote from Sartre about the Med. Well, I've read a few textes Sartre too (don't like it), if he meant something with that phase, I have no idea. What I know is that he was a big fan of Saint Tropez.... maybe with that phrase he was referring to the french colony of Algeria.

[Ouistreham]

The only regions of Portugal that are Mediterranean-like (despite not having any Mediterranean sea around) are the Algarve (above all) and, by extension, the Alentejo. The bulk of the country, center and north, are anything but Mediterranean.

Don't be absurd. Southern France is predominantly under all sorts of Mediterranean influences, including Atlantic areas like Gascony or the Basque country (and I like it that way), but not Portugal? By some incredible luck you've been spared? left untouched by this disgrace?

Last time I checked Portugal is the only European country being entirely included in the Mediterranean Csa and Csb climate zones (other than Malta, San Marino, Monaco and other superpowers).

[Hesperión]

I don't know but Croatia sells itself as the real deal:But it's showing off the Venetian architecture of the Dalmatia.

[Hesperión]

You are all Mediterranian. Deal with itYour spelling is awful.

[Catrau]

Don't be absurd. Southern France is predominantly under all sorts of Mediterranean influences, including Atlantic areas like Gascony or the Basque country (and I like it that way), but not Portugal? By some incredible luck you've been spared? left untouched by this disgrace?

The disgrace is only in your head. You are the Med hater.
I like too much the Mediterranean but I'm also a truth freak. Our autumns, winters and springs are completely off Med. Show me a Mediterranean rain graph than can match any one in Portugal, especially in the northern half (where live 93% of the Portuguese).


Last time I checked Portugal is the only European country being entirely included in the Mediterranean Csa and Csb climate zones (other than Malta, San Marino, Monaco and other superpowers).

Bullshit. Show us that map. I can show you 10 different maps.That’s funny how we should follow a classification invented by a Russian German in the early 4th quarter of the XIXth century who have never been here (just like you). It’s a nice try to classify Taskent and Porto as Med only because of two values in Temperature and in Rain fall.
About rain, usually doesn’t rain only in June and July;
About temperatures they can be milder in the winter do to the Atlantic but aren’t by no means as high as in the med in the summer.

Anyway, you know nothing about this and you’ve never been here or leaved your wind swept north. How can one say such a stupid thing being northern Portugal one of the places where more rain falls in Europe?? You should take a look at the “What's the weather today in your area?” at The Lounge. Happy learning.
I wonder from where comes that bad gall towards south. You're an anecdote.

[Rouxinol]

Don't be absurd. Southern France is predominantly under all sorts of Mediterranean influences, including Atlantic areas like Gascony or the Basque country (and I like it that way), but not Portugal? By some incredible luck you've been spared? left untouched by this disgrace?

Last time I checked Portugal is the only European country being entirely included in the Mediterranean Csa and Csb climate zones (other than Malta, San Marino, Monaco and other superpowers).

Well, perhaps you checked the wrong sources.

http://www.japassei.pt/fotos_artigos/C21ZZ_New_Picture.png

On the the map on the left, the light greenish zones are Cfb (Oceanic climate) - by chance, that strip of land happens to be the most populated area of the country). The orange one is Csb with continental influence (it even snows in peak winter) and the brown areas are Csb with high altitude influence. Only the pinkish, south of the Tagus river, basically, are Csa (the "pure" Mediterranean climate). On the map on the right is depicted the distribution of endemic flora, which corroborates very precisely the distribution of climate: typical Mediterranean vegetation is found only south of the Tagus river.

[Damião de Góis]

He means the Koppen classification system. A system which considers coastal town Porto and almost 1000 meter elevated town Potenza to have the same climate:

http://oi46.tinypic.com/xfrr6v.jpg

http://oi50.tinypic.com/2uo2trb.jpg

[Ouistreham]

You're all turning really pathetic.

The Mediterranean is defined by the possibility of growing and harvesting olive trees.

There are famous olive groves in Minho, Portugal's northernmost province.

Case closed.

[Gaijin]

What does the climate have to do with all of this?

[Damião de Góis]

You're all turning really pathetic.

The Mediterranean is defined by the possibility of growing and harvesting olive trees.

There are famous olive groves in Minho, Portugal's northernmost province.

Case closed.

It was you who brought up climate :rolleyes:

Now you changed from climate to olive trees? Olives aren't native to Portugal, Romans brought it here. But it seems to be a very adaptable tree:


Olive trees, Olea europaea, show a marked preference for calcareous soils, flourishing best on limestone slopes and crags, and coastal climate conditions. They grow in any light soil, even on clay if well drained, but in rich soils they are predisposed to disease and produce poorer oil than in poorer soil. (This was noted by Pliny the Elder.) Olives like hot weather, and temperatures below −10 °C (14 °F) may injure even a mature tree. They tolerate drought well, thanks to their sturdy and extensive root system.

[Ouistreham]

What does the climate have to do with all of this?

A certain Count Arnau (the one who started that thread) wrote:


Ok, let's put some ideas or conditions sine qua non. :D

1. Med coastline, nice sand beaches
2. Med weather
3. Olive oil and Med diet in general (veggies and fruits, fresh Med seafood, rice, poultry...)
4. A rather sociable/outdoor way of life
5. Med phenotypes
6. "Meddish architecture" (white-looking seaside little towns, tourist resorts...)
Etc.

EDIT #1:
It was you who brought up climate :rolleyes:

See above, moron.

EDIT #2:
"Meddish architecture" (white-looking seaside little towns, tourist resorts...)
Etc.

Here Count Arnau seems to suffer a Catalan (Balearic?) bias. Bleached buildings are distinctive for Sardinia, Tunisia, Greece, Portugal, large parts of Spain, but are unknown in Southern France (except for the Basque country) and most of Italy.

The Italians, actually, seem to favour any colour but white:

http://www.locandadelpapa.com/5_Portovenere_big.jpg

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/Baloncici/Baloncici1011/Baloncici101100246/8323205-batiments-colores-de-burano-ile-ensoleillee-rue.jpg

[Damião de Góis]

EDIT #1:
See above, moron.


You retarded piece of shit...

1- you mention climate
2- people reply to it
3- you call our replies pathetic and mention olive trees instead

now fuck off

[ficuscarica]

Relax man.

Portugal is semi-mediterranean, because it has many similarities with mediterranean regions but also some special and non-mediterranean attributes.

[Damião de Góis]

Relax man.

Portugal is semi-mediterranean, because it has many similarities with mediterranean regions but also some special and non-mediterranean attributes.

That's not the point. I won't have some french retard insulting me for no reason over climate.

"French", with an italian surname most likely:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61273&page=2

[Gaijin]

What does the climate have to do with all of this?


A certain Count Arnau (the one who started that thread)...

Then let's bring Australia, California, Chile and South Africa while we are at it.
After all, these same emplacements share the same climate.


Relax man.

Portugal is semi-mediterranean, because it has many similarities with mediterranean regions but also some special and non-mediterranean attributes.

Portugal is an Atlantic country.
There's nothing Mediterranean about it, other than the climate.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8036/7958328096_0b2e983baf_b.jpg

[Catrau]

That's not the point. I won't have some french retard insulting me for no reason over climate.

"French", with an italian surname most likely:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61273&page=2

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1176687&postcount=12

He is a Troll.
I had my CCTV locked on him for a while.
Someone that says:

Don't be absurd. Southern France is predominantly under all sorts of Mediterranean influences, including Atlantic areas like Gascony or the Basque country.
Can't be for real. Oh yeah, there are some but too little comparing with all the others.
:picard2:

:rotfl::rotfl:
:1127::1127::1127::1127::1127::1127:

[Ouistreham]

That's not the point. I won't have some french retard insulting me for no reason over climate.

"French", with an italian surname most likely:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61273&page=2

Why are so many Portuguese on that board that hysterical?

Yep, I wrote some comments in Italian.

I also used Dutch, Swedish, and German sometimes, in addition to French and English.

Does that make you a problem?

[Damião de Góis]

Why are so many Portuguese on that board that hysterical?

Yep, I wrote some comments in Italian.

I also used Dutch, Swedish, and German sometimes, in addition to French and English.

Does that make you a problem?

Nope, i couldn't care less.

[Hesperión]

Here Count Arnau seems to suffer a Catalan (Balearic?) bias. Bleached buildings are distinctive for Sardinia, Tunisia, Greece, Portugal, large parts of Spain, but are unknown in Southern France (except for the Basque country) and most of Italy.You forgot Ireland.

Traditional Irish cottages:
http://www.photogalaxy.com/pic/sammeh-5/irish_cottage_in_donegal.jpg
http://imageseu.homeaway.com/vd2/files/HR/400x300/g/49478/77912_4.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m32fryKnuq1rufoeso1_500.jpg

[Hesperión]

You're all turning really pathetic.
Wasn't France the country that proposed a "Mediterranean Union"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_for_the_Mediterranean#Mediterranean_Union


The Mediterranean is defined by the possibility of growing and harvesting olive trees.You are right about olive trees in Portugal. But it's still a stupid way to define what's Mediterranean. (admittedly nowhere as stupid as asking which region in the Mediterranean basin is "the meddest".)

The olive tree border:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/OliveTreeBordercommons.jpg

[askra]

Here Count Arnau seems to suffer a Catalan (Balearic?) bias. Bleached buildings are distinctive for Sardinia, Tunisia, Greece, Portugal, large parts of Spain, but are unknown in Southern France (except for the Basque country) and most of Italy.

The Italians, actually, seem to favour any colour but white:

http://www.locandadelpapa.com/5_Portovenere_big.jpg

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/Baloncici/Baloncici1011/Baloncici101100246/8323205-batiments-colores-de-burano-ile-ensoleillee-rue.jpg



Almost all traditional house typologies in Sardinia are not bleached (white plastering) , but constituted by stone in sight (granite, trachyte, basalt, tuff) or adobe bricks in the southern plains, or very coloured.
The only stereotyped "mediterranean typologies" are the turistic sea resorts in "neo mediterranean style" invented by the Swiss architect Jacque Couelle and the italian Luigi Vietti during the planning of the "Emerald Coast" at the end of 50's.

Stella Maris Church built in neo mediterranean style in Porto Cervo (town founded less of 60 years ago), (personally i like it, but generally in Sardinia is considered an extraneous style, commonly called "Stile Costa Smeralda":
http://www.sardegnacultura.it/immagini/7_70_20060407095952.jpg

poltu quatu (another sea resort built less than 50 years ago)
http://immobiliare.poltuquatu.com/wp-content/plugins/slider-pro/includes/timthumb/timthumb.php?q=100&w=580&h=250&a=tl&src=http://immobiliare.poltuquatu.com/foto/portu_qualtu_corr_16.jpg

Porto Raphael (other sea resort in neo-mediterranean style, so not traditional):
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3146/3852254569_0d495748b1_b.jpg

ancient towns in Sardinia
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/57085634.jpg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3218/3141302664_232e926758_z.jpg
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/79260796.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3607/3303091321_92d16293d2_b.jpg
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4126/5072086714_afba38500b_b.jpg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3263/2622979368_795ac93c64.jpg

[Damião de Góis]

I'm still curious about what makes Porto a "fully mediterranean" city. Apparently it's their weather..

http://norway4.wikispaces.com/file/view/climate_map_of_norway.jpg/180233955/climate_map_of_norway.jpg

Or the color of their buildings? :confused:

http://www.gallery-hostel.com/admin/files/data/images/1309520489_porto-de-gaia.jpg

[Rouxinol]

Olive trees are not endemic to Portugal, but to the eastern part of the Mediterranean basin... But they are hardy, I bet they would even grow in Nord-Pas-de-Calais.

[Kazuma]

I'm still curious about what makes Porto a "fully mediterranean" city. Apparently it's their weather..

http://norway4.wikispaces.com/file/view/climate_map_of_norway.jpg/180233955/climate_map_of_norway.jpg



honestly weather is not a good element to establish what is med...
according to this precipitation map even liguria is not mediterranean, for me this is an absurd. Genoa has an average of 1100 mm of rain and 13 cm of snow, it's not rare to see snowfall of 30 cm every 2-3 years (for example 10-15 cm just last week). Anyway it's obviously a mediterranean city.

About megalithism, there are megalith in Liguria (and Piedmont too) but the centre of megalitism probably remains Sardinia in the heart of the mediterranean sea.

being mediterranean is not an offence, the mediterranean sea is the cradle of civilization ;)
the problem of this thread is that is not clear what mediterranean means...are you referring to geography, tradition, genetic, phenotypes or what else?

[rashka]

Albania can also be very Mediterranean (especially in
the South), but it's people are pure Balkanoids.

Pure balkanoids? No.

[Γέλως]

honestly weather is not a good element to establish what is med...
according to this precipitation map even liguria is not mediterranean, for me this is an absurd.
This is because this map is completely irrelevant to the question.

[Damião de Góis]

honestly weather is not a good element to establish what is med...
according to this precipitation map even liguria is not mediterranean, for me this is an absurd. Genoa has an average of 1100 mm of rain and 13 cm of snow, it's not rare to see snowfall of 30 cm every 2-3 years (for example 10-15 cm just last week). Anyway it's obviously a mediterranean city.

About megalithism, there are megalith in Liguria (and Piedmont too) but the centre of megalitism probably remains Sardinia in the heart of the mediterranean sea.

being mediterranean is not an offence, the mediterranean sea is the cradle of civilization ;)
the problem of this thread is that is not clear what mediterranean means...are you referring to geography, tradition, genetic, phenotypes or what else?

The french poster considers it some kind of disease and started throwing insults around, because some people dared to question if Portugal was mediterranean.

But yeah, weather was brought into the discussion.

[Hesperión]

The french poster considers it some kind of diseaseWhy would you bother? Even if you can still see a few French bitching around, they are a relic of the past and France today is an extension of the South Mediterranean.

http://worldmoslem.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/2225100514_13d961aec9.jpg

[Gaijin]

being mediterranean is not an offence, the mediterranean sea is the cradle of civilization ;)
the problem of this thread is that is not clear what mediterranean means...are you referring to geography, tradition, genetic, phenotypes or what else?

No, it's not an offense. No one is inducing that.

But if someone accused your mother of being as great whore, although she wasn't, I'm sure you wouldn't sit down, cross your arms and take a couple of laughs as if it was correct, would you?

Portugal is an Atlantic country.
It has always been, Politically, Geographically, Historically, Culturally, Gastronomically, Floristically, Genetically and Phenotypically.

Most of it's history itself, revolves in the Atlantic ocean, that it would only be fair to assert that the Atlantic ocean belongs o Portugal, considering that the waters under Portuguese jurisdiction, (hence the maritime dimension of Portugal) encapsulates the Atlantic ocean, surprisingly it also holds two archipelagos in the Atlantic ocean.


"Here...where the land ends and the sea begins"
- Camões, Luís de

The grand one eyed poet was appealing to the special relationship between Portugal and the Atlantic ocean.

[Kazuma]

No, it's not an offense. No one is inducing that.

But if someone accused your mother of being as great whore, although she wasn't, I'm sure you wouldn't sit down, cross your arms and take a couple of laughs as if it was correct, would you?

Portugal is an Atlantic country.
It has always been, Politically, Geographically, Historically, Culturally, Gastronomically, Floristically, Genetically and Phenotypically.

Most of it's history itself, revolves in the Atlantic ocean, that it would only be fair to assert that the Atlantic ocean belongs o Portugal, considering that the waters under Portuguese jurisdiction, (hence the maritime dimension of Portugal) encapsulates the Atlantic ocean, surprisingly it also holds two archipelagos in the Atlantic ocean.


"Here...where the land ends and the sea begins"
- Camões, Luís de

The grand one eyed poet was appealing to the special relationship between Portugal and the Atlantic ocean.

Visigoth, is for you to call someone mediterranean the same to call someone whore? :D
This kind of nordicism is very sad from my point of view. Anyway, if this can make you feel better, Portugal is not a mediterranean country (overlooking the atlantic ocean) but simply a southern euro/atlantic country with his peculiar soul.

[Peyrol]

honestly weather is not a good element to establish what is med...
according to this precipitation map even liguria is not mediterranean, for me this is an absurd. Genoa has an average of 1100 mm of rain and 13 cm of snow, it's not rare to see snowfall of 30 cm every 2-3 years (for example 10-15 cm just last week). Anyway it's obviously a mediterranean city.

About megalithism, there are megalith in Liguria (and Piedmont too) but the centre of megalitism probably remains Sardinia in the heart of the mediterranean sea.

being mediterranean is not an offence, the mediterranean sea is the cradle of civilization ;)
the problem of this thread is that is not clear what mediterranean means...are you referring to geography, tradition, genetic, phenotypes or what else?

That's the point: on TA being ''med'' is considered an insult.

[Damião de Góis]

Why would you bother? Even if you can still see a few French bitching around, they are a relic of the past and France today is an extension of the South Mediterranean.

http://worldmoslem.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/2225100514_13d961aec9.jpg

It bothers me from the minute i get insulted.

[Rouxinol]

That's the point: on TA being ''med'' is considered an insult.

Normal. The Apricity is the successor to "The Nordish Portal". It was a so-called "Nordicist" forum. When The Apricity started out a lot of the "founding" users came from that one other forum. So I think it's safe to say the The Apricity still has a Nordicist undertone, even though it has changed a lot of course (as Skadi became "The Nordish Portal" of later-years, so to speak). :D

[Gaijin]

....is for you to call someone mediterranean the same to call someone whore?...

No, I was just making a metaphorical comparison, under false accusations.
Obviously, like you said...It seems that people take it as an offense, just like calling someone's mom a 'whore'.
:fponder:

[Catrau]

That's the point: on TA being ''med'' is considered an insult.

Yes, I agree that's the stand point of a few short minds. I don't agree that's an overall feeling.

[Catrau]

About megalithism, there are megalith in Liguria (and Piedmont too) but the centre of megalitism probably remains Sardinia in the heart of the mediterranean sea.


http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Megalithic_Culture-1_zpsde8bfa8e.png

How can you consider Sardinia the center of Megalithism??
Sardinia has many megaliths bur it stands close to a region with huge megalitic concentrations. In general the western mediterranean isles have megaliths.

Megalithism is clearly an Atlantic shores people achievement. Sardinia, Corsica and the Baleares are the "exception that confirms the rule". Many things and time passed after those monuments were erected but it's a neolithic mark od western Europe that gives clues to our distant pass, since about 8000 years ago.

[Kazuma]

i mean the italian centre ;)

[Virtuous]

Now I'm pretty sure you're a Troll, the first frenchie troll I've seen around. Do you want a medal? It will be a cork one.


Take a map and look at it. If Portugal is hardcore med so the whole of France is.
We do have cultural influences from the roman occupation but we are a people of the Atlantic facade. Since ever and ever.

There is nothing wrong about being med, a culture that I admire and have dominated the world for millennia and also where lies some of the most important features of the modern world organization.

Open you eyes, this where the deepest Portuguese roots lie.

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Megalithic_Culture-1_zpsde8bfa8e.png




oooooooooo, Malta is shining with Megalithic culture.

ps: I MED AT YOU

[Virtuous]

Actually, if you look closely, Malta is at the heart of the Mediterranean Sea.

http://www.destinationmalta.com/images/malta-scale.jpg

and we have the oldest Megalithic construction in Europe.

http://www.maltesering.com/images/archaeology_hagarqim2.jpg

checkmate, atheists.

[Ouistreham]

Megalithism is clearly an Atlantic shores people achievement. Sardinia, Corsica and the Baleares are the "exception that confirms the rule".

Total horseshit (except in comic books)..

The megaliths are much more certainly a pre-IE legacy (Indo-Europeans culture initially ignored funeral monuments made of stone, they burnt their dead).

The distribution of dolmen graves in France suggests a relation with the tin route that in the Bronze Age connected the Middle-East with the mining sites of Cornwall and Brittany (there were also big ones in Iberia), Malta, Sardinia and Corsica being key strategic positions on that essential trade route.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/Carte_Mégalithes_France.png/649px-Carte_Mégalithes_France.png

This is possibly the reason for the otherwise illogical presence of a sizeable Mediterranean racial presence in Brittany, Cornwall, Wales etc.

There are also big Megalithic concentrations in Tunisia and Algeria BTW.

[Catrau]

Total horseshit (except in comic books)..

The megaliths are much more certainly a pre-IE legacy (Indo-Europeans culture initially ignored funeral monuments made of stone, they burnt their dead).

The distribution of dolmen graves in France suggests a relation with the tin route that in the Bronze Age connected the Middle-East with the mining sites of Cornwall and Brittany (there were also big ones in Iberia), Malta, Sardinia and Corsica being key strategic positions on that essential trade route.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/Carte_Mégalithes_France.png/649px-Carte_Mégalithes_France.png

This is possibly the reason for the otherwise illogical presence of a sizeable Mediterranean racial presence in Brittany, Cornwall, Wales etc.

There are also big Megalithic concentrations in Tunisia and Algeria BTW.

Total bullshit.
Hey man, there were people living here before the indo-european migrations. There is no tin in northern Portugal only gold :D.

Les français on une vision trés particuliére de l'histoire...

[Catrau]

There are also big Megalithic concentrations in Tunisia and Algeria BTW.

Since you are a visionary, it depends on what your vision of “BIG” is.

Now, cut the crap. We are mostly westerners in ancestry: Paleolithic and Neolithic. Then strongly Indo-European especially in a cultural sense (language, architecture and other cultural characteristics of the past) but also genetically because it was the most important migration to nowadays Portugal and only then also a huge cultural input via the roman empire (language, law, architecture and general social and spatial organization). We are one of the most ancient Europeans as well as the Basque, some of the purest Cro-Magnon, and we’ve colonized western Atlantic Europe from Iberia to southern Scandinavia passing thru France and the British Isles, especially Ireland.
We have mainly brownish hair and eyes but, about 20% blonds, 3% gingers and between 20 and 50% light eyes, which means: Yes, we are full westerners, south-westerners to be more rigorous.

Here a nice and fully credited resume:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_people

Now, as I said before, get lost. Don’t even try to state that I have different parents or reformulate my ancestry you moron. Unlike you that are a German wannabe, we know who we are and to say the truth I'm beginning to get tired of your constant comments, sometime pure xenophobic other times trying to make a thesis based on your twisted visions.

So, NO. We aren’t the meddest, far from that, we are the less Med in southern Europe. Nothing good or bad about it, it’s just the way it is.

[Slycooper]

Portugal is an atlantic country. Seeing that mainland Portugal's entire coastline is the Atlantic ocean. Also Portugal includes two archipelago's in the middle of the Atlantic ocean.

[Ouistreham]

Unlike you that are a German wannabe...

This is rich from someone who claims to be "Celtic".


Catrau
.....
Last Online: Today 09:35 PM
Join Date: Jan 2012
Meta-Ethnicity: Celtic

[Catrau]

This is rich from someone who claims to be "Celtic".

This time fell head on inside a pit… did you finish your ammunition? Haven’t you got anything else to throw at me (us)? Haven’t you read the text I’ve just send you before?:picard2:

I do not claim, my ancestry is Celtic.
My ancestors spoke Celtic you stupid and were the hardcore of the Celtic world.
The word Celtic itself was born in southern Portugal, the keltoi was the name given by the Greeks to the tribe of the Celtici and later the whole of that culture became known of celtic.

http://i.imgur.com/vhC3E.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/G4ufi.png

http://i.imgur.com/kru4F.png

http://i.imgur.com/pEE9F.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OljrT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/5GRwS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pWuCS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/CrcON.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/95C3d.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4nvJR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9Uu7S.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/O7p0Y.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1HGrd.jpg

Do you know where were the biblical lands of Tarshish??

http://i.imgur.com/7Koqs.jpg

Got it?!?! Still with doubts??!

Fucking Troll, at least you learned something today. Now go and have a nice sleep.
I’m more and more convinced that you aren’t French, I refuse to acknowledge such a fail. I guess you’re just another Algerian trying to pass as French and at same time a German wannabe.

[Ira di Dio]

This thread looks tasty it's a pity I've overlooked it. :)

[Catrau]

This thread looks tasty it's a pity I've overlooked it. :)

I hope you are bringing something intelligent to the discussion and do not copy the crappy attitude of your Algerian neigbor, german wannabe.

God he is a total fail.

Can someone explain me what was the meaning of writing the hour of my last post??? What was meant with that information? add something to the discussion? Only if you're a mere retarded.

:confused3:

[Ira di Dio]

I hope you are bringing something intelligent to the discussion and do not copy the crappy attitude of your Algerian neigbor, german wannabe.
Relax I come in peace. I was just stating the objective awesomeness of this thread. By the way is that "german wannabe" a quality of my "Algerian neighbor" or is it addressed to me? :cool:

[Catrau]

Relax I come in peace. By the way is that "german wannabe" a quality of my "Algerian neighbor" or is it addressed to me? :cool:

:D:D:D:D
I imagine you came in peace.
I was obviously talking about the neighbor...

[Ira di Dio]

:D:D:D:D
I imagine you came in peace.
As usual man. ;)

Anyway now that I can keep track of how this juicy thread evolves I can stand aside with my pop corn in hand. You guys can continue, make as if I wasn't there please. :)

[Catrau]

As usual man. ;)

Anyway now that I can keep track of how this juicy thread evolves I can stand aside with my pop corn in hand. You guys can continue, make as if I wasn't there please. :)

Ok, I'm alive and kicking for another assault on the Algerian..

[Ouistreham]

my ancestry is Celtic.
My ancestors spoke Celtic you stupid and were the hardcore of the Celtic world.

The Druidic religion was never known in Iberia, and there is only very sketchy evidence that La Tène civilisation made it there.

And if you ask me, my opinion is that in most (if not all) of Gaul, let alone in Iberia or North Italy, those elusive Celts were only a tiny aristocracy of priests and princes (they wouldn't have disappeared so completely otherwise).

OMG, I didn't even suppose you would dare to post THAT:

http://i.imgur.com/95C3d.jpg

This cannot be more pathetic.
What do you want to prove with that?
Don't you know that bagpipes don't have anything specifically Celtic? That they are played throughout Europe and in North Africa?

Don't you know that the Iberian bagpipe, called gaita is related to the Greek/Balkanic one, whose name is gaida?


"Algerian neighbor"

As for neighbours, I refrained so far to point out that Portugal is much less distant from Morocco than from France; but while we're at it... :D

[Catrau]

The Druidic religion was never known in Iberia, and there is only very sketchy evidence that La Tène civilisation made it there.

And if you ask me, my opinion is that in most (if not all) of Gaul, let alone in Iberia or North Italy, those elusive Celts were only a tiny aristocracy of priests and princes (they wouldn't have disappeared so completely otherwise).

OMG, I didn't even suppose you would dare to post THAT:

http://i.imgur.com/95C3d.jpg

This cannot be more pathetic.
What do you want to prove with that?
Don't you know that bagpipes don't have anything specifically Celtic? That they are played throughout Europe and in North Africa?

Don't you know that the Iberian bagpipe, called gaita is related to the Greek/Balkanic one, whose name is gaida?



As for neighbours, I refrained so far to point out that Portugal is much less distant from Morocco than from France; but while we're at it... :D

Yes, I know that I shouldn't correlate bagpipes to Celts, it's only to make fun of you... Oh my god!!oh my god!! You have to agree that they look really nice.
You can find bag pipes all around but they do not open festivals as they open here, from the small village festival to the biggest ones, some of them with roots that can be traced to the old pagan festivals of the Samhain and the Imbolc that then went into Roman tradition and were only supplanted by the Christian tradition. Nobody knows exactly where the bag pipes comes from, only you apparently know. Gaita is pretty much Iberic and it isn't used just for bag pipes, it's used to call a lot of instruments, and the truth is that even a penis (cock) is called gaita in some instances and places :D:D:D, moron. Maybe, who knows? the Greeks adopted it when they had interests in commerce with us some 2500 years ago. Anyway apparently it doesn't have much success over there. But I can show you another dozen pics and a dozen folk groups that use it in Portugal.

About the rest, you may think "uatehva" you want no one should take it into consideration, you have proven to be too factious and xenophobic.

We have the places of worship, the names of the rivers and villages, the words left written in stones, the art, etc. We know where it came from. The most advanced research in the topic agrees with the importance of that culture in our ancestry.

http://www4.uwm.edu/celtic/ekeltoi/volumes/vol6/6_11/gamito_6_11.html

About Moroccans and Algerians... distance is a curious concept because unlike you think: we have nothing with those guys and while we always fought them, to you, they were your pawls. So, I guess you do not know but only in the Plane Euclidean Geometry space, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, Einstein showed us that space and time are relative. In this case, the relationships among states and peoples, the space isn't plane... understand what I mean???

[legolasbozo]

if you ask "mediterranean"as a concept, i figured greece and naples (napolateans) out. Classic buzuki melodies, tarantella or sirtaki, an agressive rush in the mediterranean streets, yelling peoples to each others, to many gesture, body langueage. This is what mediterranean is. i refresh my mind and Spain is not mediterranean, i mean something else with mediterranean input. Haydeee

[Jackson]

So, NO. We aren’t the meddest, far from that, we are the less Med in southern Europe. Nothing good or bad about it, it’s just the way it is.

I'd second that. Genetically Portuguese and Spanish seem to be the most northern among southern Europeans, from what I've seen.

[Ira di Dio]

I'd second that. Genetically Portuguese and Spanish seem to be the most northern among southern Europeans, from what I've seen.
Not really: the Slovenians are the most northern southern Europeans and by far.

[Jackson]

Not really: the Slovenians are the most northern southern Europeans and by far.

Ok then. Good point. Spanish and Portuguese are among the most northern, apart from the Slovenians.

[Peyrol]

''spanish'' is a nationality, not an ethnicity.

[Prince Carlo]

if you ask "mediterranean"as a concept, i figured greece and naples (napolateans) out. Classic buzuki melodies, tarantella or sirtaki, an agressive rush in the mediterranean streets, yelling peoples to each others, to many gesture, body langueage. This is what mediterranean is. i refresh my mind and Spain is not mediterranean, i mean something else with mediterranean input. Haydeee

You need to travel more and see less Hollywood.


Ok then. Good point. Spanish and Portuguese are among the most northern, apart from the Slovenians.

Greeks, Italians and Iberians have the same amount of southern-med admix. The only difference is that Greeks and Italians have more West Asian admix which peaks in the caucasus and is not med in the strict sense.

[Catrau]

I'd second that. Genetically Portuguese and Spanish seem to be the most northern among southern Europeans, from what I've seen.

I've no particular interest in being northerner, I like too much who I am and all thousands of years of history of my forefathers but I tend to agree a bit with you.


Not really: the Slovenians are the most northern southern Europeans and by far.

And agree less with Ira.

Let me explain. From my view of the Slovenians, I see them looking very northerners (in a light colored sense), I mean physically, and in phenotype but culturally they are much more Mediterranean than we are even if we are usually considered and coined as "full" meds, at least by "American" and general “hollywoodesque” standards. We and the Iberians in general, genetically are much more close to north-westerners than the Slovenian are, even if against the general concepts, something that I'm pretty sure will change in the near future with people becoming more interested in this matters and understanding better their full ancestry. I think we can say that, for example, without the Nordic/Viking migrations to the British isles (that made a lot of difference), the Brits would undoubtedly look much more like us. So, concluding: Genetically we are the less Meds and closest to Northwesterners and culturally either. Slovenian have more northern looks (light phenotype) but are more Med culturally. It looks like people migrated there and kind of supplanted the locals in numbers but yet acquired their culture. Something like what happened in the end of the Roman Empire: barbarians came here, made our northern looks grew a bit bigger but had no influence on our culture, in fact they adopted it.
Take a look at this map
http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/EuropeanautosomaladmixturesDodecadv3_zps4faa2bb4.p ng

Let’s suppose it is fairly correct since it used the autosomal admixture concept that Ira like so much :). Iberia is, in average, as north-westerner as it is Med. Now, it is also fair to imagine that the balance might shift a bit to north-western as you move west (to the Atlantic) making us genetically a bit more Northwestern than Med. The Slovenians must have some 10-15% less north-western input but they also have some 35% Baltic/eastern (light) input apart from the about 30% Med input that in this case seems to be a balkanic/westmed/eastmed input, yet culturally they are much more close to the Med hardcore either in absolute and in relative distance.

[Corvus]

Here is a good table. Take a specific look on the Med admixture.
Slovenians have less than Austrians btw:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AkbFGFGkvhh9dF9Va3ZpU3VnRVBTb1ZJckJBYWhGc mc&output=html

[Damião de Góis]

The northern component people are talking about peaks in Northeast Europe on these genetic runs. South Slavs are the most northern southern europeans.

[Ira di Dio]

Slovenia has nothing - zero - of "Mediterranean" culturally speaking. Also phenotypically they haven't much. Everyone who's been there knows it.

[Corvus]

Slovenia has nothing - zero - of "Mediterranean" culturally speaking. Everyone who's been there knows it.

It has a little bit in the south, they also have a famous bay - Koper
But in general the people look very Slavic with low Med influence

[Catrau]

Here is a good table. Take a specific look on the Med admixture.
Slovenians have less than Austrians btw:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AkbFGFGkvhh9dF9Va3ZpU3VnRVBTb1ZJckJBYWhGc mc&output=html

Correct but Austrians have also much more North-western than Slovenian.
The thing here is that Slovenian have about the same med input as west Iberians but have less north-western and their huge Baltic/Slavik input puts them into a less melanine direction. The question proposed by Jackson is a comparison to north-westerners. In terms of culture I believe they are more Meds than western/northern Iberian.

[Ira di Dio]

It has a little bit in the south, they also have a famous bay - Koper
But in general the people look very Slavic with low Med influence
Correct but I was talking of their culture, not geography.


The question proposed by Jackson is a comparison to north-westerners.
Jackson wrote "northern" as far as I can see.

[Corvus]

Correct but I was talking of their culture, not geography.

But also their culture is a little bit Med influenced. Not to a high degree but if you compare them to Czechs or Slovaks you notice certain differences.

[Ira di Dio]

But also their culture is a little bit Med influenced. Not to a high degree but if you compare them to Czechs or Slovaks you notice certain differences.
I guess so, if you compare it to the Czechs...

[Catrau]

Correct but I was talking of their culture, not geography.


Jackson wrote "northern" as far as I can see.

Wich northerners did he meant then? Scandinavian? Baltics?

[Peyrol]

Portugal as Britain and Slovenja ''med country''...only on the anthrophoras :laugh:

[StonyArabia]

Greece and Southern Italy

[Catrau]

Portugal as Britain and Slovenja ''med country''...only on the anthrophoras :laugh:

Who said that???

I do not really care about that. I will sleep the same tonight but we're used to your preoccupation with Iberian. To me it looks like a bicycle race: If the Iberian Team gains some lead you always come from nowhere on steroids trying to keep the pace :D:D.
The truth is that without the Roman Empire, our cultural med influence (that's what we should be talking about here) would be close to nil.

[Peyrol]

Just ask to the real english members of this board if they feel culturally and racially connected (and if they feel some kind of brotherhood feeling) with you, simply.

Slovenja culturally and racially is central european, btw. The geographical meaning is senseless in this discussion.

[Catrau]

Just ask to the real english members of this board if they feel culturally and racially connected (and if they feel some kind of brotherhood feeling) with you, simply.

Slovenja culturally and racially is central european, btw. The geographical meaning is senseless in this discussion.

That is a different question. Why don't you ask me if I feel culturally and racially connected to them? My answer would be No but my feeling and the overall feelings are one thing, the other thing is what lies deep inside us and from that point of view most Portuguese aren't that different from most Brits even if in average, phenotipically we are quite different.

I feel nothing towards Africans but we all know we came from there.

Anyway, I must say that, appart from the fact that they drive on the left and that I speak a latin language (that supplanted a Celtic one), I have more interest in the British Isles than I will ever have in Italy, or Slovenia.

[Gaijin]

Who said that???

I do not really care about that. I will sleep the same tonight but we're used to your preoccupation with Iberian. To me it looks like a bicycle race: If the Iberian Team gains some lead you always come from nowhere on steroids trying to keep the pace :D:D.
The truth is that without the Roman Empire, our cultural med influence (that's what we should be talking about here) would be close to nil.

Yes, Italians love to manipulate these boards, to deceive the public through false advertisement when they are "losing".

"Mare ******* (Our Sea)" was coined by the Romans themselves, to address to the Mediterranean oceanography. Hence their sea.
Further, their empire incorporated Mediterranean realms.

What else needs to be said?
Italians are the Meddest.

Case closed.

[Catrau]

Racially the Meddest are Sardinians and East Iberians.

edit

[Catrau]

Racially the Meddest are Sardinians and East Iberians.

Are you talking about the map I've posted?

[Atlantic Islander]

When it comes to the Azores, the people are mostly Med physically, but culturally not as much. When Anthony Bourdain filmed no reservations: Azores in the very beginning his first impression is that it's Med, but then halfway through the episode he's changed his mind and he says: "It's very different here than the mainland, it's not a Mediterranean culture at all".

Since the Azores are a part of Portugal, that means that a part of Portugal is not culturally med.

[Rouxinol]

The only occasions we do speak of the Mediterranean in our history books in Portugal are the following: Phoenicians, Ancient Greece, Roman Empire, Italian Renaissance. Not much more than that.

Portugal is mainly an Atlantic country with Mediterranean influence via the Roman domination of the Iberian peninsula. I honestly don't care what others think, say or or want it to be like.

[Slycooper]

When it comes to the Azores, the people are mostly Med physically, but culturally not as much. When Anthony Bourdain filmed no reservations: Azores in the very beginning his first impression is that it's Med, but then halfway through the episode he's changed his mind and he says: "It's very different here than the mainland, it's not a Mediterranean culture at all".

Since the Azores are a part of Portugal, that means that a part of Portugal is not culturally med.

It varies island to island too. Different Islands got Portuguese from different regions. Like Sao Miguel and Santa Maria got a large southern Portuguese settlement.

[Catrau]

Ok It's in line with the autosomal map. The thing here is that, it's ok because we're talking about the meddest but you can't evaluate a people only with that variable. In the autosomal map I see Italy too blue, nothing else but blue except the north. This means: west med (45%) and then east med (?%) and Balkanic (?%), wich means a huge % of meddest for Italy, except northern Italy with a northwestern input about the same as average Iberia.

[Catrau]

The only occasions we do speak of the Mediterranean in our history books in Portugal are the following: Phoenicians, Ancient Greece, Roman Empire, Italian Renaissance. Not much more than that.

Portugal is mainly an Atlantic country with Mediterranean influence via the Roman domination of the Iberian peninsula. I honestly don't care what others think, say or or want it to be like.

I entirely second this.

It's a 20/20 evaluation.:D

[Atlantic Islander]

It varies island to island too. Different Islands got Portuguese from different regions. Like Sao Miguel and Santa Maria got a large southern Portuguese settlement.

It's not about who settled there, and I'm not talking about physical features, it's about the influence the traders and mariners had on the culture. Ships from all over passed through the Azores.

[Rouxinol]

The bulk of our food isn't the typical Mediterranean cuisine as well. We eat a lot of stews of beef, pork and lamb as well as potatoes (fried or boiled or baked). Pasta, tomato and oregano are almost non-existant in our cuisine.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6075/6062507671_051252ae90_z.jpg http://luisdel.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/cozido.jpg http://comportugal.com/fichuprelanex/fx1346941329.jpg http://s3.amazonaws.com/foodspotting-ec2/reviews/1089258/thumb_600.JPG?1322681501 http://wordcatpress.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/bacalhau-a-braz.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ctvuRANZw4A/TyRyUhm5TzI/AAAAAAAAEHY/xeKN1ofx34s/s1600/ensopado_borrego.jpg

[Gaijin]

The bulk of our food isn't the typical Mediterranean cuisine as well. We eat a lot of stews of beef, pork and lamb as well as potatoes (fried or boiled or baked). Pasta, tomato and oregano are almost non-existant in our cuisine.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6075/6062507671_051252ae90_z.jpg http://luisdel.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/cozido.jpg http://comportugal.com/fichuprelanex/fx1346941329.jpg http://s3.amazonaws.com/foodspotting-ec2/reviews/1089258/thumb_600.JPG?1322681501 http://wordcatpress.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/bacalhau-a-braz.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ctvuRANZw4A/TyRyUhm5TzI/AAAAAAAAEHY/xeKN1ofx34s/s1600/ensopado_borrego.jpg

You forgot about Codfish.
Our National dish is fished in the North Atlantic ocean.

[Prince Carlo]

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/images/ejhg2012229f2.jpg

According to this study North East Italians (SMC) are the most "nordic". Sardinians (SA) are the meddest.


http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Mediterranean-admixture.gif

There are no Slovenians, Croatians and Bosnians in that run. BTW Maciamo maps are hardly reliabe.

[Catrau]

Just ask to the real english members of this board if they feel culturally and racially connected (and if they feel some kind of brotherhood feeling) with you, simply.

Slovenja culturally and racially is central european, btw. The geographical meaning is senseless in this discussion.

I was checking this month photos and after your last concerns, I couldn't stop smiling at this one.
It looks like my daughter, at 9, already shows some kind of interest in England, check out her earrings :thumb001: :D:D. Now I understand why she and her sister keep begging me to go on summer vacations to the UK. I’ve been avoiding that because I drive during the vacations and stop everywhere we like and I shit my pants just thinking about driving in the UK.

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Marta_zps806ab2ae.jpg

Anyway, I don't want you to call me English wannabe, something I'm not but I'm perfectly aware of great joint victories of the 700 years of the Oldest Alliance, the common interests that nowadays make sense to me but I’m also aware of the shame and consequences of the British Ultimatum in Africa in 1895, but there is one thing I must tell you: during all the time I've published in this forum, never an English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish member said or posted something aiming to offend the Portuguese or simply ignored (another way to offend) us. On the contrary, they are always polite, discuss with us and many times like the photos of our country, something that I can't say about most Italians, not that I see on them some kind of hater but it looks like they can't stand our geographical, cultural and genetic position in Europe, as if, as I said before with the cycling allegory, we are somehow in some kind of lead. Why do you care? Please, let’s be friends and stop caring that much about us. We do not envy you. But we are almost as much Med as you are African.

[Damião de Góis]

I'm the perfect person to ask about english wannabeism among portuguese people. So if anyone is curious about it just ask me...

[Rouxinol]

I frankly do not understand the relationship between Portugal being an Atlantic nation and this "British wannabe" concept... It's factual history: the Portuguese people's history is built upon the Atlantic ocean. The Atlantic ocean is the soul of Portugal, its people and its history: they are interwined. As our dearest Portuguese language poets, from Luís de Camões to Fernando Pessoa, sang in their poems:


MAR PORTUGUÊS

Ó mar salgado, quanto do teu sal
São lágrimas de Portugal!
Por te cruzarmos, quantas mães choraram,
Quantos filhos em vão rezaram!

Quantas noivas ficaram por casar
Para que fosses nosso, ó mar!
Valeu a pena? Tudo vale a pena
Se a alma não é pequena.

Quem quere passar além do Bojador
Tem que passar além da dor.
Deus ao mar o perigo e o abismo deu,
Mas nele é que espelhou o céu.

-- Fernando Pessoa

Cabo da Roca, where the land meets the sea:

http://www.farosdelmundo.com/gallery2/d/5527-2/Faro+Cabo+da+Roca+II+-+Portugal+-+Diciembre+2004.JPG

:)

[Damião de Góis]

It works like that... saying we border the Atlantic Ocean will automatically get this people pushed onto us:

http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/im_so_british.jpg

along with the label of "British Wannabe".

[Catrau]

We need a thread on:

What's the most Atlantic nation of Europe?

I bet on... Portugal.

:D:D:D:D:D:D

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/ZEEP2_zps07d2d350.jpeg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/ZEEP3_zps544525d6.jpg

[Gaijin]

...Portuguese people haven't ever seen or bathed in such sea...

The only Portuguese you'll ever find bathing in the Mediterranean sea, is this guy.
http://kgov.com/files/images/science/P-Man-o-War.jpg

[Catrau]

Med is for pussies..

:mocking::eviltongue:

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Cascais_zps30c1778a.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/705070_399925770083189_631980626_o_zps6d3b3a41.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dzbTu.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RltJX.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8wKR6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vg0Rt.jpg

[Slycooper]

Hell. Two regions of Portugal are IN the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

[Mortimer]

My votes go to Greece and Southern Italy

[Prince Carlo]

There is a difference between Southern Italy and Sicily. BTW Sicily getting more votes than Malta and Sardinia is a joke.

[Virtuous]

There is a difference between Southern Italy and Sicily. BTW Sicily getting more votes than Malta and Sardinia is a joke.

Spero che con il mio thread del cazzo sappiano piu che Malta e infatti Mediterranea (Sud Europa), altro che Nord Africa. :|

[Peyrol]

The portuguese-mad-mood is very funny...you always call me ''mediterranean'' even if my region (Piemont) is Alpine and we aren't mediterranean neither racially, neither culturally and neither geographically, but....you go mad when someone call you ''med''.
Obviously racially you're ''atlantic'' (what is supposed to be ''atlantic race''...?)...oh si...:rolleyes:

Funny that the theorizer of the non-existent ''portuguese race'' thinked different:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusotropicalism

[Peyrol]

Yes, Italians love to manipulate these boards, to deceive the public through false advertisement when they are "losing".

"Mare ******* (Our Sea)" was coined by the Romans themselves, to address to the Mediterranean oceanography. Hence their sea.
Further, their empire incorporated Mediterranean realms.

What else needs to be said?
Italians are the Meddest.

Case closed.


We aren't roman, how do you pretend that we are the same people of 2000 years ago, Visigoth?

If ''italians'' (used as general term, but explain me which italians precisely) are romans, then you (as offspring of Roman Empire too) are roman too.

[Rouxinol]

The portuguese-mad-mood is very funny...you always call me ''mediterranean'' even if my region (Piemont) is Alpine and we aren't mediterranean neither racially, neither culturally and neither geographically, but....you go mad when someone call you ''med''.
Obviously racially you're ''atlantic'' (what is supposed to be ''atlantic race''...?)...oh si...:rolleyes:

Funny that the theorizer of the non-existent ''portuguese race'' thinked different:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusotropicalism

I never called you anything? By the way, Lusotropicalism was coined by a Brazilian, so there's nothing much Portuguese about it. António de Oliveira Salazar held to that in his late years (especially starting in the 1960s) because Portugal went into war with Portuguese India and Portuguese Africa and he had pressures from all over the world to grant independence to the Portuguese colonies. So, basically, it was used for the purpose of enduring Portuguese colonialism when all other European colonial powers had given up their colonies long before. An important chunk of Portuguese people are phenotypically either Atlanto-Mediterranid or Atlantid, and these are phenotypes of the so-called "Atlantic spectrum" - so, racially, Portuguese is Atlantic and Mediterranean. Culturally, Portugal is Atlantic and Mediterranean as well. Geographically it is solely Atlantic. But either way the Atlantic is much stronger and is especially present in the bulk of the country, which is it's northern coast from Lisbon to the tip of Minho. Our country and the Atlantic ocean are interwined since the Age of Discovery. Even our national anthem talks about it.

[Peyrol]

I never called you anything? By the way, Lusotropicalism was coined by a Brazilian, so there's nothing much Portuguese about it. A. de Oliveira Salazar hold to that in his late years (especially starting in the 1960s) because Portugal went into war with Portuguese India and Portuguese Africa and he had pressures from all over the world to grant independence to the Portuguese colonies. So, basically, it was used for purpose of enduring Portuguese colonialism when all other European colonial powers had given up their colonies long before. A important chunk of Portuguese people are phenotypically either Atlanto-Mediterranid or Atlantid, and these are phenotypes of the so-called "Atlantic spectrum" - so, racially, Portuguese is Atlantic and Mediterranean. Culturally, Portugal is Atlantic and Mediterranean as well. But the Atlantic is much stronger and is especially present in the bulk of the country, which is it's northern coast from Lisbon to the tip of Minho. Our country and the Atlantic ocean are interwined since the Age of Discovery. Even our national anthem talks about it.

You confirmet exactly my point /thought.

[Gaijin]

We aren't roman, how do you pretend that we are the same people of 2000 years ago, Visigoth?

This sounds a lot more like a personal debate.
Considering that your are distancing yourself from the Romans.


"We aren't roman"

Way to go...you just violated the entire identity of the Italians.
The Roman gods must be proud of you. I wonder how would the senate react.

If I was your modern day Italian I'd be offended by your accusation.

What I would like to know is...where are the Romans? Where are they?
Because according to you, it seems to me that you are implying that the Romans are extinct?

Are the Romans extinct mister Perduellio?


If ''italians'' (used as general term, but explain me which italians precisely) are romans, then you (as offspring of Roman Empire too) are roman too.

I think I speak for anyone who thinks of Italy, when I say that people envision the Roman Empire, when they think of Italy.


...then you (as offspring of Roman Empire too) are roman too.

I'm flattered.
Although I might have Roman ancestry...the majority of the Portuguese came straight out of the Celtic tribes (The Lusitanians to highlight) descendants of Viriathus himself, only followed by Roman, Visigoth, Suevi, Alan, and Vandal input.
This is has been attested under the HLA-A25-B18-DR15 and A26-B38-DR13 Haplogroups that the Portuguese are indeed Lusitanians for the most part, since the paleolithic.

We even hold the title and prefix "Luso".
Just like the English are to "Anglo", the French are to "Franco", or the Greeks are to "Hella".

Just because we have Roman culture, it doesn't mean we are Roman people.
The Lusitanians were simply Romanized, after imperial rule.

PS: Why are you so desperate into making the Portuguese, Mediterranean people?
Whilst stripping the Italians as non-Mediterraneans?


Funny that the theorizer of the non-existent ''portuguese race'' thinked different:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusotropicalism

Your last input makes no sense.
I have no idea why did you quote a philosophy instituted by a Brazilian, to be applied in the Colonies, in the first place.
What does all of this have to does with Portuguese people?

Salazar, a great comrade of Mussolini reject such theory.
You ought to know that, non-Roman.

Stop calling me Visigoth. You know very well why he left.
Or do I need to remind you?

The only genuine Italian in this board seems to be Torretto.
Everyone else seems to exile themselves in the Alpes.

[Hesperión]

Although I might have Roman ancestry...the majority of the Portuguese came straight out of the Celtiberian tribesEh...the Celtiberians were a group of Celtic tribes in the eastern part of the Peninsula, distinct from any Celtic groups in the western part.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Mapa_celtiberos.jpg


(The Lusitanians to highlight) descendants of Viriathus himself, only followed by Roman, Visigoth, Suevi, Alan, and Vandal input.
This is has been attested under the HLA-A25-B18-DR15 and -B38-DR13 Haplogroups that the Portuguese are indeed Lusitanians for the most part, since the paleolithic.

We even call ourselves and hold the prefix of "Luso".Well...the Lusitani (probably related to the Vettoni) were only in a part of modern Central Portugal. Usually maps place them all the way to the Atlantic coast. But that seems to be a mistake because there were the Turdulos (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Túrdulos), probably related to the Turdetani.
http://www.tesorillo.com/hispania/imagenes/hispania7.gif

[Gaijin]

Eh...the Celtiberians were a group of Celtic tribes in the eastern part of the Peninsula, distinct from any Celtic groups in the western part.
Celtiberians, in the geographical scene of Celts in Iberia.
Fixed it in any case.

The Celts were in the West of the peninsula, whereas the Iberians were in East. In the middle, relatively diagonal from southwest to northeast, was the junction line between Celts and Iberians, the Celtiberians.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Ethnographic_Iberia_200_BCE.PNG

[Peyrol]

Sure, northern italians are ''romans'' (so, etrusco-latin ethnic syncretism, that's what the so called ''romans'' were).

Don't mind if we're called ''Gallo-Italic'' (a subcategory of Gallo-Romance) people and not ''Latino-Faliscan''.

[Catrau]

Back to topic please.

After all, why are we discussing the Portuguese if the author of the thread didn't even post them as an option???
:D:D:D:D

First came Septentrion whose knowledge of the Med isn't wide and then came the Troll from northern France. Finally came our Italian friends who want us, for some unknown reason, right in the center of the Med. They caused the derail!!

Who are the true Meds???

[Mans not hot]

Who are the true Meds???
SimplyNordic and Henry.

[Gaijin]

Sure, northern italians are ''romans'' (so, etrusco-latin ethnic syncretism, that's what the so called ''romans'' were).

Don't mind if we're called ''Gallo-Italic'' (a subcategory of Gallo-Romance) people and not ''Latino-Faliscan''.

There you go, speak for yourself. You are Gallo-Italic.
Therefore, you shouldn't be incriminating on the plural form, overall Italians, just because you are not a Roman yourself.

[Peyrol]

There you go, speak for yourself. You are Gallo-Italic.
Therefore, you shouldn't be incriminating on the plural form, overall Italians, just because you are not a Roman yourself.

Just a question: who are for you the ''roman italians''?
It isn't a ironical question, i'm really curious

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/Italy_-_Forms_of_Dialect.jpg/300px-Italy_-_Forms_of_Dialect.jpg

[Damião de Góis]

Well...the Lusitani (probably related to the Vettoni) were only in a part of modern Central Portugal. Usually maps place them all the way to the Atlantic coast. But that seems to be a mistake because there were the Turdulos (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Túrdulos), probably related to the Turdetani.
http://www.tesorillo.com/hispania/imagenes/hispania7.gif

Those Turduli are a confusing people. To the west of the Lusitanni there are the Turdulorum Oppida who seem to be akin to the Lusitani, although the name suggests they are akin to the Turdolos. But in the north part of their region there are the Turduli Veteres, who apparently were akin to the Lusitanni and Gallaeci? :confused:

Also they are related to the Turdolos with the Celtici in the middle of them?

[Gaijin]

Just a question: who are for you the ''roman italians''?
It isn't a ironical question, i'm really curious

Why do I feel like you are trying to crave a road to Gaul?
This thread is not about you, or Torino.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/RomanItaly.png/400px-RomanItaly.png

Careful what you say about Julius Caesar.
He's often regarded as one best Roman patricians.

[Comte Arnau]

Since it's taking up quite a bit of the thread, let me tell you just one thing. Neither Portugal nor the Piedmont are in the poll. And I didn't include them on purpose! :D

[kabeiros]

You are all Mediterranian. Deal with itOnly the Spaniards, Croats and Alboz can't deal with it, we Greeks are really proud of our mediterranian origin

[Linet]

Whats meddest ? :icon_ask:

Who isnt proud to be meditteranean? :1099:

[Lábaru]

Only the Spaniards, Croats and Alboz can't deal with it, we Greeks are really proud of our mediterranian origin

Cantabrians are Mediterraneans, you guys are Anatolian.

[Comte Arnau]

Only the Spaniards, Croats and Alboz can't deal with it, we Greeks are really proud of our mediterranian origin

The fact that all Greek regions but one have Mediterranean shores could contribute to that.

[Damião de Góis]

Only the Spaniards, Croats and Alboz can't deal with it, we Greeks are really proud of our mediterranian origin

Yes it's normal that people embrace the sea that their cities border. Otherwise, if there was a thread about who is the most Black Seaest, i'm sure some people would put us on the run.

[Linet]

Well no matter what....being meditteranean is a honor :humble: all the great civilisations :odinsleipnir: have been born either around meditteranean :vikingship: or in middle East :desert:

[kabeiros]

Cantabrians are Mediterraneans, you guys are Anatolian.You are one of the best examples of Spaniards who dislike or even hate their country's position on the map, you secretly wish that Spain was in Scandinavia :D
We Greeks are mediterraneans par excellence but don't worry, we are woggs unlike the nordic Spaniards

[kabeiros]

Yes it's normal that people embrace the sea that their cities border. Otherwise, if there was a thread about who is the most Black Seaest, i'm sure some people would put us on the run.Can you be more specific?

[Lábaru]

You are one of the best examples of Spaniards who dislike or even hate their country's position on the map, you secretly wish that Spain was in Scandinavia :D
We Greeks are mediterraneans par excellence but don't worry, we are woggs unlike the nordic Spaniards

Sure, I want to be placed in scandinavia. That is my dream. You're a smart boy.
http://s1.postimage.org/m91sl698v/N_S.gif

[Linet]

...What has Spain to do with Black sea? :icon_ask:

[Comte Arnau]

I also didn't include Cantabria, Castile or the Basquelands, for a reason.

[Damião de Góis]

Can you be more specific?

We don't border the Mediterranean Sea, and neither the Black Sea.
Your poets write about the Mediterranean, ours write about the Atlantic. Wouldn't you say this is normal ?

[kabeiros]

We don't border the Mediterranean Sea, and neither the Black Sea.
Your poets write about the Mediterranean, ours write about the Atlantic. Wouldn't you say this is normal ?Of course, that's why I didn't include Portuguese among the people who are ashamed of their med origin.

[Comte Arnau]

Of course, that's why I didn't include Portuguese among the people who are ashamed of their med origin.

A whole half of Iberia looks west into the Atlantic, not only the Portuguese, man. Castilians, Basques... all of them are hardly Med in many aspects.

[MM81]

Whats meddest ? :icon_ask:

Who isnt proud to be meditteranean? :1099:
I'm proudly mediterranean. I'm a gallo-roman living in a beautiful piece of land with amazing weather, stunning nature, and a great past to be proud of.
I wouldn't change my sea, my flowers, my mild winter and my warm spring with anything else in the world.
http://www.granturismoncc.com/files/9613/5031/1013/cinque-terre.jpeg
http://www.cinqueterreresidence.it/cinque_terre/foto_cinque_terre/manarola/images/manarola.jpg
And the food...Don't forget the food!

[Linet]

I try to get the reason of the arguement :icon_fight: here but i fail :noidea:

Portuguese people are not meds, i dont think anyone could consider them as meds but Spanish people are mediterraneans :viking ship. If they dont want to be :disapproving...well...its their choise and even better for us :cheer_icoon: since then we are even more special :humble: and even fewer :biggrin the nations that can say they hold the craddle of civilisation :rose:.

PS. What does it mean this part of my country is to another sea :icon_ask:? I am from Sparta, the only place in Greece that has nothign to do with the sea :ftitanic::ftitanic:. But i consider my nation a sea nation....we are a whole...:grouphug:...if someone tells me i am not a sea-wolf i ll be offended anyway :angry:

MM81 :keep up :thumbs:

[Comte Arnau]

I try to get the reason of the arguement :icon_fight: here but i fail :noidea:

Portuguese people are not meds, i dont think anyone could consider them as meds but Spanish people are mediterraneans :viking ship. If they dont want to be :disapproving...well...its their choise and even better for us :cheer_icoon: since then we are even more special :humble: and even fewer :biggrin the nations that can say they hold the craddle of civilisation :rose.

Do you consider the French Med too?

[Lábaru]

I admit that I am somewhat stunned, Where are the Spanish who deny their Mediterranean side? why there are some eastern guys speaking about Spain?

on the other hand, is less Mediterranean portugal than Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria and Castilla in average? There is a lot of ignorance about the west by what I see.

[Linet]

south France yes :nod: and any french who consider himself med, yes...but French were never great sea-men anyway :ohwell:....On the other hand the Spanish navy :vikingship: was a big pride :cool: for the Spaniards.

[Comte Arnau]

south France yes :nod: and any french who consider himself med, yes...but French were never great sea-men anyway :ohwell:....On the other hand the Spanish navy :vikingship: was a big pride :cool: for the Spaniards.

So you divide France into two, but not Iberia. Lame argument then.

Northern France and Western Iberia are not Med. Simple as that.

[el22]

Ok, let's put some ideas or conditions sine qua non. :D

1. Med coastline, nice sand beaches
2. Med weather
3. Olive oil and Med diet in general (veggies and fruits, fresh Med seafood, rice, poultry...)
4. A rather sociable/outdoor way of life
5. Med phenotypes
6. "Meddish architecture" (white-looking seaside little towns, tourist resorts...)
Etc.

We have all of these. I don't know how he stand in rapport with others, but by number 4 I think we beat all other candidates.

[Linet]

well ok :icon_biggrin: ...as i said, i wasnt even seeing any reason for argument :fdancing: ....Actually the fact that Greeks consider Spain meds, for us, is acceptance and like kind of sea-brotherhood :grouphug: and also is because you are the only other nation expect us that was roaming the meditteranean sea with its ships :viking ship.
If you ask a Greek what he thinks as meditteranean, he will say Greece, Spain and Italy and we feel akin to you because of that...maybe thats why Kabeiros got abit angry :rage:. Maybe he felt like slapping our hand of friendship :stop00010:

[kabeiros]

A whole half of Iberia looks west into the Atlantic, not only the Portuguese, man. Castilians, Basques... all of them are hardly Med in many aspects.I'm aware of that but overall you are basically a Med population and I find it kind of pathetic to get paranoid every time some one points this fact to you. Labaru got mad with me because I once dared to suggest that Spaniards look like Greeks, in his mind Spaniards look like Nordic super heroes while Greeks and S/Italians like Somalis :D

[Lábaru]

I'm aware of that but overall you are basically a Med population and I find it kind of pathetic to get paranoid every time some one points this fact to you. Labaru got mad with me because I once dared to suggest that Spaniards look like Greeks, in his mind Spaniards look like Nordic super heroes while Greeks and S/Italians like Somalis :D

You're obsessed with me. Anyway Somalis are slightly darker than you.

[Nurzat]

i am surprised rumanians are not in the poll. they would have been voted meddest fo sho

[Linet]

I'm aware of that but overall you are basically a Med population and I find it kind of pathetic to get paranoid every time some one points this fact to you. Labaru got mad with me because I once dared to suggest that Spaniards look like Greeks, in his mind Spaniards look like Nordic super heroes while Greeks and S/Italians like Somalis :D

Kαι τι πρόβλημα έχουμε με αυτό :icon_ask:; Μην ασχολείσαι... εγώ είμαι περήφανη που είμαι Ελληνίδα :biggrin και έχω τα καστανά μου μάτια :eyes και δεν καίγομαι από τον ήλιο :flamed:. Αν δεν τους αρέσει αυτό που είναι, εμείς τι πρόβλημα έχουμε; :ohwell:.

Sorry for the Greek

[kabeiros]

on the other hand, is less Mediterranean Portugal than Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria and Castilla in average? There is a lot of ignorance about the west by what I see. What does mediterranean mean to you? Swarthy, short, ugly people with Afro hair?

[Comte Arnau]

well ok :icon_biggrin: ...as i said, i wasnt even seeing any reason for argument :fdancing: ....Actually the fact that Greeks consider Spain meds, for us, is acceptance and like kind of sea-brotherhood :grouphug: and also is because you are the only other nation expect us that was roaming the meditteranean sea with its ships :viking ship.
If you ask a Greek what he thinks as meditteranean, he will say Greece, Spain and Italy and we feel akin to you because of that...maybe thats why Kabeiros got abit angry :rage:. Maybe he felt like slapping our hand of friendship :stop00010:

Spain didn't exist back then. It was us, Aragonese-Catalans, who roamed the Mediterranean and had duchies in Greece, not the Castilians. They went west and conquered America.


I'm aware of that but overall you are basically a Med population and I find it kind of pathetic to get paranoid every time some one points this fact to you. Labaru got mad with me because I once dared to suggest that Spaniards look like Greeks, in his mind Spaniards look like Nordic super heroes while Greeks and S/Italians like Somalis :D

So for you Med only means Med phenotype?

[rashka]

I didn't understand the question to begin with so I didn't vote as yet.

[Linet]

I didn't understand the question to begin with so I didn't vote as yet.

I hadnt understood either till i saw them arguing :Pruegelknabe:
Who is the most Meditteranean, thats the question....whatever that means :noidea:....
Vote Greece :eyes.... we deserve it since i explained you :wink:

[Übermensch]

Mediterranean is an immence sea shared by a lot of people and cultures, asking which country on this sea is the most ''med'' is kinda vague, since there are a lot of aspects to consider.
Anyway i would say the most mediterranean would be Italians (except the one northen then Ligurians),Occitans (''southern French''), Corsicans,Andalusians,Catalans,Maltese,Greeks and Sardinians.

[kabeiros]

So for you Med only means Med phenotype? No, of course not. But my sister who visited Spain with Erasmus told me that she loved it because people there were very friendly, loud speaking, happy people just like Greeks and Italians (she went to Vigo which is on the Atlantic shores, not on Mediterranean). Anyway, I don't want this thread to turn into a Greco-Spanish war, so I won't bother you any more

[Lábaru]

What does mediterranean mean to you? Swarthy, short, ugly people with Afro hair?

I do not know where you get those words and why associate it with me. I think you have a lot of hatred towards Spain because we are beautiful people, and we swam in the Atlantic and the Cantabrian waters, and that bothers you and you feel like shit there, at the edge of the east.

Either way, Spain has the best olive oil in the world, vote us :)

[kabeiros]

Kαι τι πρόβλημα έχουμε με αυτό :icon_ask:; Μην ασχολείσαι... εγώ είμαι περήφανη που είμαι Ελληνίδα :biggrin και έχω τα καστανά μου μάτια :eyes και δεν καίγομαι από τον ήλιο :flamed:. Αν δεν τους αρέσει αυτό που είναι, εμείς τι πρόβλημα έχουμε; :ohwell:.

Sorry for the GreekΚανένα πρόβλημα ρε Λινετ, απλώς είπα να πειράξω λίγο τους Ισπανούς, είναι πολύ εύκολο :p

[Linet]

Mediterranean is an immence sea shared by a lot of people and cultures, asking which country on this sea is the most ''med'' is kinda vague, since there are a lot of aspects to consider.
Anyway i would say the most mediterranean would be Italians (except the one northen then Ligurians),Occitans (''southern French''), Corsicans,Andalusians,Catalans,Maltese,Greeks and Sardinians.

hell will engulf :dev you if you dont vote Greece :rant:

[Queen B]

I am proud Med. I don't care about others.

[Linet]

Κανένα πρόβλημα ρε Λινετ, απλώς είπα να πειράξω λίγο τους Ισπανούς, είναι πολύ εύκολο :p

:lol:... Οι Ισπανοί είναι γλυκούληδες....και μας υποστηρίζουν στα εθνικά μας :dance:...μην τους θυμώνεις .

[Atlantic Islander]

I didn't understand the question to begin with so I didn't vote as yet.

I personally believe the OP meant culturally. Maybe Count Arnau could elaborate on what he meant...?

[Linet]

Either way, Spain has the best olive oil in the world, vote us :)

:shocked:
You wish :1099:
...we could use your oil only in our machines :cool:

[Comte Arnau]

No, of course not. But my sister who visited Spain with Erasmus told me that she loved it because people there were very friendly, loud speaking, happy people just like Greeks and Italians (she went to Vigo which is on the Atlantic shores, not on Mediterranean). Anyway, I don't want this thread to turn into a Greco-Spanish war, so I won't bother you any more

Fine.

The thread is intended to arise some controversial discussion from the very moment Mediterranean is a vague term, no problem with that. It is just that, when architecture, food, weather, and many other aspects are included, Western Iberia and Northern France can't even be considered.

This is why I only included in the poll those which are obviously Med, as they are territories with Med shores. And from here on, discuss which of them looks more Med to each one of us.

By the way, I'm a Catalan, and Mediterranean proud.

[Lábaru]

I personally believe the OP meant culturally. Maybe Count Arnau could elaborate on what he meant...?


Originally Posted by Count Arnau View Post
Ok, let's put some ideas or conditions sine qua non.

1. Med coastline, nice sand beaches
2. Med weather
3. Olive oil and Med diet in general (veggies and fruits, fresh Med seafood, rice, poultry...)
4. A rather sociable/outdoor way of life
5. Med phenotypes
6. "Meddish architecture" (white-looking seaside little towns, tourist resorts...)
Etc.

[Atlantic Islander]

Fine.

The thread is intended to arise some controversial discussion from the very moment Mediterranean is a vague term, no problem with that. It is just that, when architecture, food, weather, and many other aspects are included, Western Iberia and Northern France can't even be considered.

This is I only included in the poll those who are obviously Med, as they are territories with Med shores. And from here on, discuss which of them looks more Med to each one of us.

Thanks for elaborating.

[kabeiros]

I do not know where you get those words and why associate it with me. I think you have a lot of hatred towards Spain You've got to be kidding, right? I don't hate Spaniards, where did that come from? If you can find any posts of mine which contain hatred towards your nation please show them to me

[Lábaru]

You've got to be kidding, right? I don't hate Spaniards, where did that come from? If you can find any posts of mine which contain hatred towards your nation please show them to me

Sure. but first you can quote me, the words that bother you so much.

I do not think any Spanish has said absolutely nothing about the Mediterranean, except CA and he puts a third part of Spain as Mediterranean candidates. So, what is your problem?, I think you're a little crazy.

[Damião de Góis]

Originally Posted by Count Arnau View Post
Ok, let's put some ideas or conditions sine qua non.

1. Med coastline, nice sand beaches
2. Med weather
3. Olive oil and Med diet in general (veggies and fruits, fresh Med seafood, rice, poultry...)
4. A rather sociable/outdoor way of life
5. Med phenotypes
6. "Meddish architecture" (white-looking seaside little towns, tourist resorts...)
Etc.

Portugal has clear mediterranean influence when i look at this list, particularly in the south. In the northern half, there are no tourist resorts and summers aren't as hot. Fishing town Nazaré for example, in central Portugal, i don't see it as especially med:

http://ipt.olhares.com/data/big/248/2484421.jpg

However, some landscapes in the south look very mediterranean to me:

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/15110/dsc_5567.jpg

[Linet]

Sure. but first you can quote me, the words that bother you so much.

I do not think any Spanish has said absolutely nothing about the Mediterranean, except CA and he puts a third part of Spain as Mediterranean candidates. So, what is your problem?, I think you're a little crazy.

He is nuts :loco:
:p
....he was just teasing you :eyes
....and anyway, the least i want to see is Spanish vs Greeks :icon_mad:...so stop it now :aufsmaul_2: both of you roosters :chicken:

[Comte Arnau]

Portugal has clear mediterranean influence when i look at this list, particularly in the south. In the northern half, there are no tourist resorts and summers aren't as hot. Fishing town Nazaré for example, in central Portugal, i don't see it as especially med:

http://ipt.olhares.com/data/big/248/2484421.jpg

However, some landscapes in the south look very mediterranean to me:

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/15110/dsc_5567.jpg

Well, needless to say that if some of you feel I should include more places in the poll, like, say, the Algarve, just tell me.

However, I've bathed in the Algarve in the summer... and man, that was so grrrrrrrrrly cold :D

[Lábaru]

He is nuts :loco:
:p
....he was just teasing you :eyes
....and anyway, the least i want to see is Spanish vs Greeks :icon_mad:...so stop it now :aufsmaul_2: both of you roosters :chicken:

and the funniest thing. he was talking about Scandinavia and Nordid, I honestly think he's a bit confused.

[kabeiros]

Sure. but first you can quote me, the words that bother you so much. which words do you think that bother me so much? That according to you Spaniards are beautiful people who swim on the Atlantic while Greeks are ugly darkies who swim in the worst waters of the whole world? And you think that I am a little crazy?

[Linet]

:flynch: kill me now....
Somebody stop them :cry:

[Lábaru]

which words do you think that bother me so much? That according to you Spaniards are beautiful people who swim on the Atlantic

Yes, Atlantic, Cantabrian and Mediterranean waters. A third part of Spain is in the list.


while Greeks are ugly darkies who swim in the worst waters of the whole world? And you think that I am a little crazy?

stops using drugs, that's your fantasy. Quote me or shut up.

[Linet]

:goodnight:

[Damião de Góis]

Well, needless to say that if some of you feel I should include more places in the poll, like, say, the Algarve, just tell me.

However, I've bathed in the Algarve in the summer... and man, that was so grrrrrrrrrly cold :D

You have no idea how many northern portuguese go every summer to Algarve to bathe in their warm waters :p

The only time i went to Porto was in spring, it was windy and cloudy with sun sometimes.. but definitely not hot, maybe 20ºC. We went to the coastline, and there was this woman sunbathing there, in the wind. I was shocked :D

[Comte Arnau]

You have no idea how many northern portuguese go every summer to Algarve to bathe in their warm waters :p


But that's because you consider the Mediterranean a piss bathtub. ;)

[Damião de Góis]

But that's because you consider the Mediterranean a piss bathtub. ;)

I only have one experience with the Mediterranean sea, and it was warm. I don't know if i went in an atypical year.. but i had never felt warm sea before in my life. :p

[Lábaru]

I want to be placed in Scandinavia because my land is very ugly :(
AytBLRPvPXQ

[kabeiros]

he is nuts :loco:
:p
....he was just teasing you :eyes
....and anyway, the least i want to see is spanish vs greeks :icon_mad:...so stop it now :aufsmaul_2: Both of you roosters :chicken:Σιγά ρε Λινετ, είπαμε να είμαστε φιλικοί αλλά όχι κι έτσι. Ο τυπάκος τρελαίνεται και μόνο στην ιδέα ότι οι Ισπανοί είναι σαν τους Ιταλούς και τους Έλληνες (οκ ειδικά με τους Έλληνες) και χαλιέσαι που του πατάω τον κάλο? Τί νομίζεις δηλαδή, ότι αν φέρεσαι υποτακτικά και συμφωνείς με ότι λένε, θα σε υποστηρίξουν σε θέματα σχετικά με την Ελλάδα?

[Linet]

Σιγά ρε Λινετ, είπαμε να είμαστε φιλικοί αλλά όχι κι έτσι. Ο τυπάκος τρελαίνεται και μόνο στην ιδέα ότι οι Ισπανοί είναι σαν τους Ιταλούς και τους Έλληνες (οκ ειδικά με τους Έλληνες) και χαλιέσαι που του πατάω τον κάλο? Τί νομίζεις δηλαδή, ότι αν φέρεσαι υποτακτικά και συμφωνείς με ότι λένε, θα σε υποστηρίξουν σε θέματα σχετικά με την Ελλάδα?


Να σου πω την αλήθεια εγώ είδα από εκεί που ξεκίνησες να του τα χώνεις :aufsmaul_2:. Απλά είχα την αίσθηση ότι αντιδρούν έτσι επειδή τους πάτησες τον κάλο :faint2:. Αν έιπαν μλκια για την Ελλάδα....τότε καλά που δεν το είδα...είμαι χειρότερη από εσένα όταν μου τη λένε για την Ελλάδα και ειδικά άλλοι Ευρωπαίοι που μέχρι χτες ζούσαν σε στάβλους :sheep000:.

[Prince Carlo]

Catrau should explain me something about the mediterranean culture of Slovenia. Last time I checked Slovenians were a slavic speaking country with strong cultural ties with Austria and Hungary.

[Corvus]

Catrau should explain me something about the mediterranean culture of Slovenia. Last time I checked Slovenians were a slavic speaking country with strong cultural ties with Austria and Hungary.


I told you before, Slovenians are less med influenced than Austrians.
Both in culture and genetics. And Austrians are not really Mediterranian either.
Just approx. 10% of the population could pass as Italians.

[Peyrol]

I told you before, Slovenians are less med influenced than Austrians.
Both in culture and genetics. And Austrians are not really Mediterranian either.
Just approx. 10% of the population could pass as Italians.

80% of the slovenian population can fit in Friuli or Veneto...

[Corvus]

80% of the slovenian population can fit in Friuli or Veneto...

That`s right, but thats because of the fact that the inhabitants of Friuli are related to Slovenians and Carinthians.

By Italy I mean the Central and Southern parts

[Peyrol]

That`s right, but thats because of the fact that the inhabitants of Friuli are related to Slovenians and Carinthians.

By Italy I mean the Central and Southern parts

About 40% of forlans are, in reality, rhaeticized slavs.
Aquileian bishop, during slovenian expansion, offered lands and farms to many of them in all the modern Friuli.

[Corvus]

We all know that Northern Italy is not a Mediterranian region either.
The Med sphere initiates in Emilia Romagna.

[Peyrol]

We all know that Northern Italy is not a Mediterranian region either.
The Med sphere initiates in Emilia Romagna.

There is some med ethnic influence even among some northerners, btw...Venice as city for example was for a millenium the major commercial centre of Southern Europe and people from all over the Known-World lived in the city, included about 500 turks rescued by venetians after battle of Lepanto which converted to Catholicism and gained venetian citizenship (called ''Conversi'').

[Laubach]

.but French were never great sea-men anyway :picard2:

Yes, we conquer several territories in the Americas, Africa, Asia and Oceania using a car :coffee:

[Ibericus]

I would say it's Sardinian, for it's geography, and because genetically they are always the peak for the 'mediterranean' components.

[Linet]

Yes, we conquer several territories in the Americas, Africa, Asia and Oceania using a car :coffee:

Cars back then :blink: ? You are goooood :wink:

[MM81]

We all know that Northern Italy is not a Mediterranian region either.
The Med sphere initiates in Emilia Romagna.

On the eastern side... But on the western side, (northern) Italy becomes a med country just beyond the mountain passes between Perduellio's land and mine :)
http://www.ininternet.org/turismo/images/liguria.jpg

[Linet]

:ohwell: Are you serious?
North and South? Are you talking for the same country or you plan to devide it in the near future? :eusa_eh:

[MM81]

? Not planning to divide anything... Why do you ask?

[Linet]

Because a country is a whole....if you are a mediterranean country then you just are....:noidea:
If someone asks, are you a thracian country? Yes we are :nod:...i wont say yes we have a part of Thrace :eyes....Thrace is a part of us, it represent all of us....so yes we do :thumbs:

[MM81]

Well geographically speaking, most of the North isn't mediterranean: Liguria, coastal Veneto and Romagna are the only true "med". It's the same as for northern Spain: Bilbao isn't med, Barcelona is.
It has nothing to do with national identity, which is a stronger feeling, you know :thumb001:

[Linet]

Well geographically speaking, most of the North isn't mediterranean: Liguria, coastal Veneto and Romagna are the only true "med". It's the same as for northern Spain: Bilbao isn't med, Barcelona is.
It has nothing to do with national identity, which is a stronger feeling, you know :thumb001:

Well to me is strange :chin:...we really never do that. Even if a small part of Greece is something, then we consider all of us as part of it :grouphug: even if we live at the other side. I suppose we may be different in that...

[Lábaru]

Well geographically speaking, most of the North isn't mediterranean: Liguria, coastal Veneto and Romagna are the only true "med". It's the same as for northern Spain: Bilbao isn't med, Barcelona is.
It has nothing to do with national identity, which is a stronger feeling, you know :thumb001:

Even Galicia, Asturias , Cantabria and Basques are partly Mediterranean, at least 50% of our culture and blood come from Mediterranean people.

[gold_fenix]

i am atlantic and i am mediterranean, i am southern and i am western , you call me atlantic, mediterranean , southern or western any of them because is those i am and proud of those, but you don't pretend to say that i don't belong to any of these because there is the lie

[Peyrol]

Well to me is strange :chin:...we really never do that. Even if a small part of Greece is something, then we consider all of us as part of it :grouphug: even if we live at the other side. I suppose we may be different in that...

This is med sea for you? Is my region.

http://impresamia.com/extern/Ottobre_2012_2/Monviso.jpg

http://piemonteturistico.myblog.it/media/00/02/1458976861.jpg

http://www.notizie.it/wp-content/blogs.dir/33/files/2011/07/langhe6.jpg

http://static.turistipercaso.it/image/a/autunno/autunno_svvgm.T0.jpg

http://www.lucagino.it/files/fotografie/Gallerie/HD/Terre-divine-HD.jpg

http://images03.localidautore.it/dbimg/resort/val-di-susa-148.jpg



...and my city

http://www.residencetorino.biz/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/torino-night-highres.jpg

http://static.controlacrisi.org/images/auto/a7/a7e38a39811d15c0539803aaa69ae162a544199da9e46c0fb2 cc6ca7.jpg

http://convention.turismotorino.org/public/image/convention_torino_panorama_2.jpg

http://www.passioneventi.it/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/torino-borgo-medievale-cortile-del-melograno.jpg

[Linet]

It doesnt look med :sunny: but is beautifull :rose:
:lol: I just said what we do, so to me is really strange :)...If you ask me i am Thracian and Macedonian and Dorian and Ionian and i am proud for all of the dances of Pontus and the Ionians and the Cretans because they are mine as well even if i am Spartan. But thats our mentallity :nerd:, i dont force it on anyone else :whip: , but it really surpriced me at first :shocked:.

[Catrau]

Catrau should explain me something about the mediterranean culture of Slovenia. Last time I checked Slovenians were a slavic speaking country with strong cultural ties with Austria and Hungary.

:D

That discussion was left a while ago. It's about the same as Romania...
:D

The truth is that I don't give a shit about it, I couldn't care less.
Sorry man, I'm not in the mood anymore, I had a to sail heavy seas and fight troll pirates from the same provenace as my ancestors did. Anyway I had fun with it and learned a lot, not with the trolls, of couse but with all the others, usually friendly members.

I really like the Med and it's history and culture. I have very nice Italian friends.
I like the wine, the best med heritage these (acording to Strabo) western neolithic beer drinkers retained and now we produce the very best wine you can find in the world.
Check out this nice set, I assure you it's a fantastic lot.
http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/2012-12-30-5141_zpse9aea60d.jpg
:D:D

But this has more to with me/us:

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/IMG_1881_zps700f19fc.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/IMG_1862_zpsaab98c2a.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/IMG_1916_zpse6dd31e0.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/IMG_2248_zpse774d646.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/IMG_6208_zps7f67f472.jpg

It's awsome.
We aren't Meds at all but we kept some goods things that came from the Med... meanwhile we've lost a big deal of our pagan ancestry because of those southern Babarians :D.

But many remained:
Sardines over Broa (Yellow Bread):

http://i.imgur.com/zVu9I.jpg

And just to piss off some... again:
Opening my hometown "Festa dos Tabuleiros", the oldest pagan (celtic) festival in Portugal that gathers 500000 in an afternoon.

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Facebook/Festa%20dos%20Tabuleiros%202011/267677_2191466904709_1188234743_2631933_1721200_n. jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Facebook/Festa%20dos%20Tabuleiros%202011/261557_2191467104714_1188234743_2631934_4941560_n. jpg

I'm off this discussion. It's is for Meds.
Trolls still show here and there. It's not your case.

*all photos by... "moi"... "je" ;-)

[Peyrol]

It doesnt look med :sunny: but is beautifull :rose:
:lol: I just said what we do, so to me is really strange :)...If you ask me i am Thracian and Macedonian and Dorian and Ionian and i am proud for all of the dances of Pontus and the Ionians and the Cretans because they are mine as well even if i am Spartan. But thats our mentallity :nerd:, i dont force it on anyone else :whip: , but it really surpriced me at first :shocked:.

Italy was from 476 to 1861 divided into several states who developed different and rich cultures....just take a look of here, the Duchèe du Piemont-Savoie who lasted from 950 to 1861, or the Venetian republic (697-1797)...so, it isn't surprising if we have strong regionalisms.

[Comte Arnau]

It doesnt look med :sunny: but is beautifull :rose:
:lol: I just said what we do, so to me is really strange :)...If you ask me i am Thracian and Macedonian and Dorian and Ionian and i am proud for all of the dances of Pontus and the Ionians and the Cretans because they are mine as well even if i am Spartan. But thats our mentallity :nerd:, i dont force it on anyone else :whip: , but it really surpriced me at first :shocked:.

Greece is small compared to Italy or Iberia, and all of you (or the overwhelming majority) are ethnic Greeks. No wonder you feel as one.

[Linet]

Greece is small compared to Italy or Iberia, and all of you (or the overwhelming majority) are ethnic Greeks. No wonder you feel as one.

I think we are opening an irrelevant topic :p
I understnad what you are telling me :icon_ask: but no matter what i suppose you love :love0031: the country you live at.

[Peyrol]

Greece is small compared to Italy or Iberia, and all of you (or the overwhelming majority) are ethnic Greeks. No wonder you feel as one.

10 million people, a very low population...they're ''cute'' http://www.faccine.eu/smiles/1145801939-Amore6.gifhttp://www.faccine.eu/smiles/1145801939-Amore6.gifhttp://www.faccine.eu/smiles/1145801939-Amore6.gif

[Comte Arnau]

10 million people, a very low population...they're ''cute'' http://www.faccine.eu/smiles/1145801939-Amore6.gifhttp://www.faccine.eu/smiles/1145801939-Amore6.gifhttp://www.faccine.eu/smiles/1145801939-Amore6.gif

Well, I don't consider them few. We Catalans are 10 millions too!! :p

[Linet]

Well, I don't consider them few. We Catalans are 10 millions too!! :p

yes but we are cute :silly000:....:eyes

[Peyrol]

Well, I don't consider them few. We Catalans are 10 millions too!! :p

...sbedem!:D

(obviously if you consider us a ''ethnic collettivity'').


Total population: c. 125 million

Italy 55,695,126
Brazil 23,047,494
United States 17,250,211
Argentina 16,427,786
France 4,903,890
Canada 1,445,335
Venezuela 1,200,000
Uruguay 1,255,220
Australia 852,418
Perù 865,000
Germany 695,160
Switzerland 521,146
Belgium 376,091
United Kingdom 255,403
Chile 184,997
Paraguay 110,000
South Africa 77,400
Spain 38,694
Libya 25,000
Costa Rica 15,000
Ethiopia 8,000

[Ira di Dio]

By Italy I mean the Central and Southern parts
Why? It's arbitrary of you. :rolleyes:

[Corvus]

That's annoying. :rolleyes:

Why, the North is traditionally only partially Italy. Bear in mind that this country is a bit artificial because it was a confederation of seperate independent kingdoms until the unificiation 1861.

The North is heavily influenced by German and Keltic elements.
Core Italy is the Centre. The South is at least perceived as the stereotypical Italy by the media and Americans, despite the fact that they are seperate entities as well.

[Peyrol]

Well Nordlicht, alto this is part of the country, tecnically...

http://www.cavalieridellaluce.net/nord/files/nord_big.gif

[Ira di Dio]

Why, the North is traditionally only partially Italy. Bear in mind that this country is a bit artificial because it was a confederation of seperate independent kingdoms until the unificiation 1860.
You're right but just because it is an "artificial" country Italy must be either all, from Lampedusa to the Alps, or nothing.

It never existed an ancient people called the Italians, everyone was something else centuries ago, not only the northern Italians.

The fact that some foreigners have stereotypes about Italy shouldn't change reality one bit.

[Linet]

And the South is Greek :rose:...Lets throw Italians to the sea :ftitanic:...nothign for them :laugh:

[Peyrol]

And the South is Greek :rose:...Lets throw Italians to the sea :ftitanic:...nothign for them :laugh:

Nope.

They've mostly greek ancestors, this is true, but they aren't ''greek'' as you or Dandelion.
Only few people are able to speak southern italian greek (remember the videos of some days ago? this) in 2013, unfortunately, even if was the main language of southern Italy until 1500.

[Linet]

Dont talk back :no: if you want a life-boat :dev:

[Corvus]

You're right but just because it is an "artificial" country Italy must be either all, from Lampedusa to the Alps, or nothing.

It never existed an ancient people called the Italians, everyone was something else centuries ago, not only the northern Italians.

The fact that some foreigners have stereotypes about Italy shouldn't change reality one bit.

I understand your point, it is now a nation since 152 years so common bonds have developed. It is comparable to the situation in Austria, but that`s another chapter.

I know that there has never been a tribe called Italians, but at least standard Italian originated in Tuskany, so it is fair to say that the centre is the heart of Italy.

[Ira di Dio]

I understand your point, it is now a nation since 152 years so common bonds have developed.
Yes, maybe not so strong, but IMO they have and the north is "Italy" (whatever relevance one gives to this word) as much as the south is, although abroad things are perceived in another way as you know.

By the way don't forget that choosing Tuscan over any other dialect or language and call it "Italian" was also a fluke. However I do agree with you that the central Italians are more quintessentially Italian than either the northerners and the southerners, in the sense that culturally they show local features in a way that the other Italians don't.

[Linet]

The descendants of Romans=Italians :icon_ask:...no?

[Ira di Dio]

The descendants of Romans=Italians :icon_ask:...no?
A Roman could be from Britain down to Egypt.

[Linet]

Well to me Italians=Romans :thumbs: ....case solved :richter:

[Ira di Dio]

Well to me Italians=Romans :thumbs: ....case solved :richter:
We can sort of agree if you replace the words Italian with central Italian and Roman with Italic. ;)

[MM81]

Well to me is strange :chin:...we really never do that. Even if a small part of Greece is something, then we consider all of us as part of it :grouphug: even if we live at the other side. I suppose we may be different in that...
Well but geography is geography, national identity is national identity... They're different things. I am italian, I love my country and its differences. But I don't consider myself an inhabitant of the Alps... Because I live on the sea. Anyway Perdu, who lives at the feet of the Alps, is a fellow countryman of mine like my neighbours living on the beach. Geography doesn't really matter in this... And cultural identity neither.

[Linet]

Mmmm no :icon_ask: , i didnt mean it considering it like if staying at that place. But if you ask me what our dances are :fdancing:...i will say all kinds, from any place of Greece and i trully consider them like ours :grouphug: , mine as well even if i dont inhabit there.

[MM81]

@ Linet: well, maybe your feelings about your country's traditions depends on the nation's size. I mean, Greece is far more "compact" than Italy, geographically (and culturally).
Example: I recognize neapolitan music or tarantella (typical southern dance) as part of my country's cultural heritage as a whole, but I don't feel them properly mine as specifical forms of popular culture, because they originated 800 km southwards from my hometown, and above all we have totally different forms of ancient popular culture here.
But I recognize tarantella and canzone napoletana (neapolitan song) part of my country's heritage, and I respect them for this reason.

[Durrerque]

In my opinion I consider the most Meddest places are Granada, Murcia, Catalonia, Valenicia, Balearic Islands, Languedoc, Sicily, Malta, Greece, Crete and Sardinia.

Other places that are next are off course going to be out of Europe are Turkey, The Levant, Iraq, only parts of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Baharain, Iran, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan and to a small extent Northern India.

That is just my point of view.

[Linet]

Crete is Greece

[Comte Arnau]

Crete is Greece

What about Cyprus?

[Linet]

What about Cyprus?

:) ....Its Greece too :eyes but its a separate state :wink

[Ira di Dio]

Other places that are next are off course going to be out of Europe are Turkey, The Levant, Iraq, only parts of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Baharain, Iran, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan and to a small extent Northern India.
Cool selection of Med countries, man :thumb001:

No Kazakhstan? I've heard they have some nice beaches.

http://www.doxbox.it/shop/product_images/uploaded_images/Borat_mankini.jpg

[Ianus]

Souther Italy, Iberia, Greece, Adriaric Balkans, Provence and Linguedoc

[WOOHP]

A whole half of Iberia looks west into the Atlantic, not only the Portuguese, man. Castilians, Basques... all of them are hardly Med in many aspects.

:lol:

Basically whole of Iberia and North Italy are more "Med" phenotypically than Provence or Languedoc(Atlantid and Atlanto-Med are just West Meds with some nordoid admix). Culturally French Med coast differs from the rest of Med Europe. Compare the French riviera with places like Mallorca, Crete or Valencia.

[Comte Arnau]

Basically whole of Iberia and North Italy are more "Med" phenotypically than Provence or Languedoc

The thread is not just about the phenotype. If we are to believe there is a "Med" phenotype, after all.

Native Languedocians couldn't be more Med, by the way.


Culturally French Med coast differs from the rest of Med Europe. Compare the French riviera with places like Mallorca, Crete or Valencia.

And the clear differences are?