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Guapo
07-06-2009, 05:31 AM
http://www.aee.gr/english/5sarakatsani/Sarakatsan1.jpghttp://www.aee.gr/english/5sarakatsani/Sarakatsan2.jpg

The Sarakatsani nomadic shepherds of continental Greece are mainly located along the ranges of the Pindos massif. Epirus, Thessaly, Macedonia and Thrace are the provinces in which they are most numerous. Sarakatsani communities are also found further in the north. Their seasonal migrations had led many of them across the border to Bulgaria, Turkey, Albania and Yugoslavia. They α11 are Greek-speaking, wherever they live. The Danish scholar Carsten Hoeg (Hoeg, 1925-1926) has shown, that neither phonetically, nor in terms of grammatical structure, are there traces of foreign elements in the dialect spoken by the Sarakatsani. Further, he writes, the Sarakatsani material culture shows the trace of sedentary origins. On the contrary it follows with precision and simplicity from the conditions of transhuman life in α particular physical environment. The Greek ethnographer Angheliki Chatzimichali (Chatzimichali, 1957), who spent a lifetime among them, believes that they are α group of population, who in their pastoral way of life, social organization, and art, show forth certain prototypical elements of Greek culture. She is describing, for instance, the similarities between the Sarakatsani decorative art and those of the "geometric" style of pre-classical Greece. The English researcher J. Κ. Campbell (Campbell, 1964) arrives at the conclusion that the Sarakatsani "must always have lived in more or less the same conditions and areas as we find them today". They are, indeed, very endogamic, thus we may consider them, from the anthropological point of view, an isolate group. Ε. Makris (Makris, 1990) also believes that they are a pre-Neolithic people. He gives α full description of their material life in his book.

Taking into consideration the above, the author undertook the study of physical anthropology of the Sarakatsani with the aim of utilizing these data as α historical source in the decision of this concrete ethnogenetic problem. At this point it must be emphasized repeatedly, that racial characteristics in no way predetermine the trend of historical events. But it is also true, that we proceed from the indisputable position that the physical type of α people, its area of distribution and its physical composition always reflect the process of its ethnic history.

Material and Methods.

In 1963, invited by the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, the author has studied among other groups α group of about 300 adult Sarakatsani of the Balkan Mountains. Half of them were men and half women. In the years 1967-1968 almost another 300 were studied in Greece along the Pindos Mountains. In every individual about 60 metrical and morphological traits were examined, while in α series of α couple of decades of contemporary Sarakatsani skulls, from Boeotia, were examined more than 70 traits. For comparison were used the tables previously published by Poulianos (1968, 1969, 1971) and unpublished, of more than 15,000 people examined from Central Asia, through Caucasus, to Spain. In elaborating the collected material the usual statistical techniques were applied.

Analysis.

From the morphometrical analysis it is apparent that not only historically, ethnographically and linguistically the two groups share common origin, but anthropologically too. Some differences must be accounted to the fact that the group of the Balkan area has been separated from the main group of Western Greece about 150 years ago. Besides, its population is very small in numbers (it does not exceed 4000 people). On the other hand the population of Pindos area is counted to be α few decades of thousands. Thus the Balkan group must be considered still more isolated than that of the Greek mainland. Both groups are characteristic of their big diameters of the head. But the biggest of α11 in comparison to other europeoid series is the bizygomatic breadth overlapping that of the mongoloids. The Boeotian skulls give us the same picture. There is nothing, of course, of the mongoloid complexity among Sarakatsani. Their wide bizygomatic diameter in α very few cases exceeds the head breadth. This, according to C. S. Coon (Coon, 1939), is an archaic trait found only among Upper Palaeolithic Europeans. Wide zygomatic arches sometimes combine with flaring gonial angles, and often the forehead is wider than the mandible and the face takes on the characteristic form of an inverted triangle. The morphological face height is quite small, in relation to the width, α trait also very distinctive for the Epirotics, as α11 the above, from the Aegeans (Mediterraneans). The women groups also give α 1οw face height. The plump cheeks of the Sarakatsani stand at the opposite European extreme than the drawn ones amongst Aegeans. Browridges are of moderate size, or do not exist. In most cases the frontal slope is straight. The skin color is also lighter among Sarakatsani, and the chest hirsutness is rare. Hairiness in this part of the world seems to be α trait of great taxonomic value. The lack of any prognathism is stressed by the great percentage of the opisthocephalic part of the face. These are only some of the traits.

Discussion.

The description given above places the Sarakatsani population in the Continental, or Epirotic, type of the europaeoids, and not among the Mediterraneans (as supposed by Necrassova, Boev, 1962). It has been shown, that the Epirotic type is much older on European soil, than the Mediterranean one (Poulianos 1968). It is clearly related to the "Brunn-Przedmost-CroMagnon" type described by G.F. Debetz (1936). This same type is followed up by Ι. Ι. Gohman (1966) amongst the Mesolithic (Vassilievka ΙΙI ) and Neolithic population of Ukraine. Due to this work by Gohman we now know that the "Cro-Magnon in the wide meaning of the word" anthropological type of Western Europe in the Upper Palaeolithic is the same in Eastern Europe and the steppes of the Russian Plain. Upper Palaeolithic skulls are not yet known in Greece, but there is α very interesting find of early Mesolithic (Jacobsen 1969). The physical type of the skull is classified by J. L. Angel (1969) as Basic White (Α3) and lies between Tιviec and Natufιans (less linear than the later). Our own study of the skull (Poulianos 1970) gave α 1οw face (68 mm) and quite wide (143 mm). The frontal width is rather small and the slope almost straight. Unfortunately it is yet only one skull and it would be difficult to come to general conclusions about the Mesolithic population of Greece. Still we can classify it among the Protoeuropaeoids, in a way linking anthropologically the territory of Central and Southern Europe in such an early period.

The Epirotic type described above is met, besides the Pindos massif, among the Epirotes of NW Greece, which we first studied in 1957, and after whom the name of the type was given. The same type is met in Montenegro, as it is described by K.W. Ehrich (1948), in NW Bulgaria, (Poulianos, 1966), in Romania (Milku, Dumitrescu, 1958-1961) and in Ukraine (Djatchenko 1965). It is not confined only to the Dinaric Alps, but extended to the west at least as far as Pyrinnes. It is a real epirotic (e.g. continental). The Palaeolithic Europeans could not vanish without a trace. Their descendants became the Epirotics, and the most representative group of them, the nucleus so to speak of the Epirotic type, is the Sarakatsani isolates.

Up to now in literature prevailed the opinion that the Basques, who do not speak an Indo-European language, were maybe the oldest people in Europe. Some refer to the Lapps as well too. Let us consider both cases: The Basques (Poulianos 1969b) as α whole are not very different in their physique from the rest of the population of Spain, which in its absolute majority is Mediterranoid. This is not meant to say that no Cro-magnon elements are met among the Basques, as we cannot say that no Mediterranoids are met among Sarakatsani. The relict language is only an indication of the antiquity of a population. The physical features are those which count more. On our case the Sarakatsani show themselves to be much older.

The Lapps of the North of Scandinavia are not any more an anthropological aenigma. The traditional point of view to seek among laponoids the ancient brachycephals of Europe has not any more any kind of foundation. Many anthropologists who have worked among them have shown, that the Lapps are the result of "inbreeding" with mongoloids, who came to Europe (Bounak 1956) at least much later after the Europeoids existed there. Thus the Lapps cannot be the oldest people of Europe either. The geographical differentiatίon of traits which we have described above for the Epirotics shows that they have persisted in their special geographical regions, and they are met in a more "compacted" form amongst the Sarakatsani of Pindos and Balkan mountains areas, despite other changes of a more clearly phyletic evolutionary nature. Thus the antiquity of the Sarakatsani type is, at the least extent indirectly established. The Sarakatsani are nothing more or less than a local Middle Palaeolithic survival, or, perhaps α reemergence. Being an ecological isolated group, they represent a local specialization, in which selection may have played a part, as well as possibly other factors associated with life in a mountainous area. Looking into the historical past of races in our continent, the Sarakatsani may be considered the most ancient population of Europe.

The data presented here once more verify the validity of the thesis taken by Oshinsky (1959) and Krogman (1964), that anthropometric and morphological traits must still be considered the nucleus of Physical Anthropology.

link:
http://www.aee.gr/english/5sarakatsani/sarakatsani.html

Rhobot
07-06-2009, 06:33 AM
I thought the Basque were the most ancient people of Europe.

Treffie
07-06-2009, 08:24 AM
I find it amazing that there are still nomadic pastoralists in Europe. I think I've got some photos of the Sarakatsani somewhere, I'll post them here soon.

Nice article btw. :thumb001:

Tabiti
07-06-2009, 08:51 AM
Do you mean Karakachani? Never met the name Sarakatsani before...

Treffie
07-06-2009, 09:01 AM
Do you mean Karakachani? Never met the name Sarakatsani before...

From wiki


The most popular theory about the origin of the name Sarakatsani or Karakatsani, is that it probably derives from the Turkish word karakaçan (kara = 'black' + kaçan = 'fugitive') meaning 'those who flee to uncultivated lands'.[6] The first element (kara) of the word, was used by the Ottomans to denote the black garment of Sarakatsani, which indicated their mourning for the Fall of Constantinople.[citation needed] It is said that for the same reason, they also slaughtered the white lambs and left alive only the black. An alternative and less popular theory states that their name comes from the Aromanian word sarac-tsani meaning 'poorman'. The Sarakatsani were recorded under this name for the first time only at the end of the 18th century and the beginning of the 19th century, thus the quest for their true origins gave place to a lot of speculative theories among the scholars.

:)

Tabiti
07-06-2009, 09:09 AM
http://www.infotourism.net/documents/2749_dete.jpg
http://www.24chasa.bg/Images/Cache/Image_14917_6.jpg
http://dariknews.bg/uploads/photos_more/200707/path_826.jpg
http://dariknews.bg/uploads/news_images/200707/photo_big_160874.jpg
http://www.anamnesis.info/broi2/akSnimka5.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Berkovitsa-ethnomuseum-sarakatsani-folk-costumes.jpg
http://friends.btv.bg/files/groups/small/461cf3e5a69e04390862b8d87cc30a48.gif
Flag of the Bulgarian Karakachans.

P.S. They were never accepted as one of the major minorities here and already melted in the Bulgarian nation, imo. Even their names are completely Bulgarian.

Osweo
07-06-2009, 10:25 AM
The Danish scholar Carsten Hoeg (Hoeg, 1925-1926) has shown, that neither phonetically, nor in terms of grammatical structure, are there traces of foreign elements in the dialect spoken by the Sarakatsani.
Is it the last surviving Doric dialect? I dimly remember reading that some time...

Both groups are characteristic of their big diameters of the head. But the biggest of α11 in comparison to other europeoid series is the bizygomatic breadth overlapping that of the mongoloids. The Boeotian skulls give us the same picture. There is nothing, of course, of the mongoloid complexity among Sarakatsani. Their wide bizygomatic diameter in α very few cases exceeds the head breadth. This, according to C. S. Coon (Coon, 1939), is an archaic trait found only among Upper Palaeolithic Europeans.
I think that I have seen this in Sardinians, can anyone comment on that?

Wide zygomatic arches sometimes combine with flaring gonial angles,
What does that actually mean?

The Lapps of the North of Scandinavia are not any more an anthropological aenigma. The traditional point of view to seek among laponoids the ancient brachycephals of Europe has not any more any kind of foundation. Many anthropologists who have worked among them have shown, that the Lapps are the result of "inbreeding" with mongoloids, who came to Europe (Bounak 1956) at least much later after the Europeoids existed there. Thus the Lapps cannot be the oldest people of Europe either.
The author ought to specifiy what is meant by the rather arbitrary 'oldest'. 'A population that has least changed in physical character', I suppose is meant.
In that case, the Lapp comments are fine - there does seem to be some Samoyedic infusion. But there is an ancient European element too. I've not seen anyone attempt to anthropologically classify the latter, which may be impossible. Are there many remains up there to look at for the last few thousand years?

The data presented here once more verify the validity of the thesis taken by Oshinsky (1959) and Krogman (1964), that anthropometric and morphological traits must still be considered the nucleus of Physical Anthropology.

link:
http://www.aee.gr/english/5sarakatsani/sarakatsani.html
:thumbs up Hvala, Vojvoda!

Fortis in Arduis
07-06-2009, 10:52 AM
I find it amazing that there are still nomadic pastoralists in Europe. I think I've got some photos of the Sarakatsani somewhere, I'll post them here soon.

Nice article btw. :thumb001:

Please hurry. :thumb001:

Angantyr
07-06-2009, 10:55 AM
The article is clearly absolute bullshit.

The website it is posted on is run by the "Anthropological Association of Greece", a clearly politically oriented group of nuts. It has a section dedicated to "Denounciations" of foreign archaeological schools who excavate in Greece. All of the articles are dedicated to the Greeks being the oldest and the first.

The allegation that there are no traces of foreign elements in the dialect spoken by the Sarakatsani is demonstrably false. Ancient Greek itself was full of borrowings and had effects of substrates...modern Greek as spoken by the Sarakatsani, or any other group, even moreso.

Moreover, the Greeks are not indigenous to Greece, but intrusive Indo-Europeans who mixed with the Pelasgian, Cretan and other natives.

There is so much wrong with the allegations that it boggles the mind. I wish I had more time to mock it, but I must rush off to work.

Osweo
07-06-2009, 11:21 AM
The article is clearly absolute bullshit.
Oho! :D

The website it is posted on is run by the "Anthropological Association of Greece", a clearly politically oriented group of nuts. It has a section dedicated to "Denounciations" of foreign archaeological schools who excavate in Greece. All of the articles are dedicated to the Greeks being the oldest and the first.
Good job you said!

The allegation that there are no traces of foreign elements in the dialect spoken by the Sarakatsani is demonstrably false. Ancient Greek itself was full of borrowings and had effects of substrates...modern Greek as spoken by the Sarakatsani, or any other group, even moreso.
I don't think talk was of borrowings from the Classical era, but rather of later Slavic, Roman and Turkic. Are these found in their speech?

Moreover, the Greeks are not indigenous to Greece, but intrusive Indo-Europeans who mixed with the Pelasgian, Cretan and other natives.
But the author does acknowledge a different anthropological environment down in the rest of Greece, almost implying it is of Pelasgian stock to at least some extent.

There is so much wrong with the allegations that it boggles the mind. I wish I had more time to mock it, but I must rush off to work.
I look forward to the rest! :p

Guapo
07-07-2009, 04:30 AM
They could also be related to the Brunn-Przedmost-CroMagnon type that founded Lepenski Vir and moved southwards id est the Dorian tribes, Thracian tribes?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lepenski_Vir


I thought the Basque were the most ancient people of Europe.

This article states that Basques as α whole are not very different in their physique from the rest of the population of Spain, which in its absolute majority is Mediterranoid therefore not as old.

Albion
04-25-2012, 07:39 PM
I find it amazing that there are still nomadic pastoralists in Europe. I think I've got some photos of the Sarakatsani somewhere, I'll post them here soon.

Nice article btw. :thumb001:

Yeah, there's no drovers left in Wales and shepherds just move sheep between one nearby pasture and another in the uplands of Britain.

The Sarakatsani are interesting though. I think in most places shepherds were landless peasants or social outcasts rather than a cohesive ethnic group.

brunette
04-25-2012, 07:43 PM
http://www.aee.gr/english/5sarakatsani/Sarakatsan1.jpghttp://www.aee.gr/english/5sarakatsani/Sarakatsan2.jpg

The Sarakatsani nomadic shepherds of continental Greece are mainly located along the ranges of the Pindos massif. Epirus, Thessaly, Macedonia and Thrace are the provinces in which they are most numerous. Sarakatsani communities are also found further in the north. Their seasonal migrations had led many of them across the border to Bulgaria, Turkey, Albania and Yugoslavia. They α11 are Greek-speaking, wherever they live. The Danish scholar Carsten Hoeg (Hoeg, 1925-1926) has shown, that neither phonetically, nor in terms of grammatical structure, are there traces of foreign elements in the dialect spoken by the Sarakatsani. Further, he writes, the Sarakatsani material culture shows the trace of sedentary origins. On the contrary it follows with precision and simplicity from the conditions of transhuman life in α particular physical environment. The Greek ethnographer Angheliki Chatzimichali (Chatzimichali, 1957), who spent a lifetime among them, believes that they are α group of population, who in their pastoral way of life, social organization, and art, show forth certain prototypical elements of Greek culture. She is describing, for instance, the similarities between the Sarakatsani decorative art and those of the "geometric" style of pre-classical Greece. The English researcher J. Κ. Campbell (Campbell, 1964) arrives at the conclusion that the Sarakatsani "must always have lived in more or less the same conditions and areas as we find them today". They are, indeed, very endogamic, thus we may consider them, from the anthropological point of view, an isolate group. Ε. Makris (Makris, 1990) also believes that they are a pre-Neolithic people. He gives α full description of their material life in his book.

Taking into consideration the above, the author undertook the study of physical anthropology of the Sarakatsani with the aim of utilizing these data as α historical source in the decision of this concrete ethnogenetic problem. At this point it must be emphasized repeatedly, that racial characteristics in no way predetermine the trend of historical events. But it is also true, that we proceed from the indisputable position that the physical type of α people, its area of distribution and its physical composition always reflect the process of its ethnic history.

Material and Methods.

In 1963, invited by the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, the author has studied among other groups α group of about 300 adult Sarakatsani of the Balkan Mountains. Half of them were men and half women. In the years 1967-1968 almost another 300 were studied in Greece along the Pindos Mountains. In every individual about 60 metrical and morphological traits were examined, while in α series of α couple of decades of contemporary Sarakatsani skulls, from Boeotia, were examined more than 70 traits. For comparison were used the tables previously published by Poulianos (1968, 1969, 1971) and unpublished, of more than 15,000 people examined from Central Asia, through Caucasus, to Spain. In elaborating the collected material the usual statistical techniques were applied.

Analysis.

From the morphometrical analysis it is apparent that not only historically, ethnographically and linguistically the two groups share common origin, but anthropologically too. Some differences must be accounted to the fact that the group of the Balkan area has been separated from the main group of Western Greece about 150 years ago. Besides, its population is very small in numbers (it does not exceed 4000 people). On the other hand the population of Pindos area is counted to be α few decades of thousands. Thus the Balkan group must be considered still more isolated than that of the Greek mainland. Both groups are characteristic of their big diameters of the head. But the biggest of α11 in comparison to other europeoid series is the bizygomatic breadth overlapping that of the mongoloids. The Boeotian skulls give us the same picture. There is nothing, of course, of the mongoloid complexity among Sarakatsani. Their wide bizygomatic diameter in α very few cases exceeds the head breadth. This, according to C. S. Coon (Coon, 1939), is an archaic trait found only among Upper Palaeolithic Europeans. Wide zygomatic arches sometimes combine with flaring gonial angles, and often the forehead is wider than the mandible and the face takes on the characteristic form of an inverted triangle. The morphological face height is quite small, in relation to the width, α trait also very distinctive for the Epirotics, as α11 the above, from the Aegeans (Mediterraneans). The women groups also give α 1οw face height. The plump cheeks of the Sarakatsani stand at the opposite European extreme than the drawn ones amongst Aegeans. Browridges are of moderate size, or do not exist. In most cases the frontal slope is straight. The skin color is also lighter among Sarakatsani, and the chest hirsutness is rare. Hairiness in this part of the world seems to be α trait of great taxonomic value. The lack of any prognathism is stressed by the great percentage of the opisthocephalic part of the face. These are only some of the traits.

Discussion.

The description given above places the Sarakatsani population in the Continental, or Epirotic, type of the europaeoids, and not among the Mediterraneans (as supposed by Necrassova, Boev, 1962). It has been shown, that the Epirotic type is much older on European soil, than the Mediterranean one (Poulianos 1968). It is clearly related to the "Brunn-Przedmost-CroMagnon" type described by G.F. Debetz (1936). This same type is followed up by Ι. Ι. Gohman (1966) amongst the Mesolithic (Vassilievka ΙΙI ) and Neolithic population of Ukraine. Due to this work by Gohman we now know that the "Cro-Magnon in the wide meaning of the word" anthropological type of Western Europe in the Upper Palaeolithic is the same in Eastern Europe and the steppes of the Russian Plain. Upper Palaeolithic skulls are not yet known in Greece, but there is α very interesting find of early Mesolithic (Jacobsen 1969). The physical type of the skull is classified by J. L. Angel (1969) as Basic White (Α3) and lies between Tιviec and Natufιans (less linear than the later). Our own study of the skull (Poulianos 1970) gave α 1οw face (68 mm) and quite wide (143 mm). The frontal width is rather small and the slope almost straight. Unfortunately it is yet only one skull and it would be difficult to come to general conclusions about the Mesolithic population of Greece. Still we can classify it among the Protoeuropaeoids, in a way linking anthropologically the territory of Central and Southern Europe in such an early period.

The Epirotic type described above is met, besides the Pindos massif, among the Epirotes of NW Greece, which we first studied in 1957, and after whom the name of the type was given. The same type is met in Montenegro, as it is described by K.W. Ehrich (1948), in NW Bulgaria, (Poulianos, 1966), in Romania (Milku, Dumitrescu, 1958-1961) and in Ukraine (Djatchenko 1965). It is not confined only to the Dinaric Alps, but extended to the west at least as far as Pyrinnes. It is a real epirotic (e.g. continental). The Palaeolithic Europeans could not vanish without a trace. Their descendants became the Epirotics, and the most representative group of them, the nucleus so to speak of the Epirotic type, is the Sarakatsani isolates.

Up to now in literature prevailed the opinion that the Basques, who do not speak an Indo-European language, were maybe the oldest people in Europe. Some refer to the Lapps as well too. Let us consider both cases: The Basques (Poulianos 1969b) as α whole are not very different in their physique from the rest of the population of Spain, which in its absolute majority is Mediterranoid. This is not meant to say that no Cro-magnon elements are met among the Basques, as we cannot say that no Mediterranoids are met among Sarakatsani. The relict language is only an indication of the antiquity of a population. The physical features are those which count more. On our case the Sarakatsani show themselves to be much older.

The Lapps of the North of Scandinavia are not any more an anthropological aenigma. The traditional point of view to seek among laponoids the ancient brachycephals of Europe has not any more any kind of foundation. Many anthropologists who have worked among them have shown, that the Lapps are the result of "inbreeding" with mongoloids, who came to Europe (Bounak 1956) at least much later after the Europeoids existed there. Thus the Lapps cannot be the oldest people of Europe either. The geographical differentiatίon of traits which we have described above for the Epirotics shows that they have persisted in their special geographical regions, and they are met in a more "compacted" form amongst the Sarakatsani of Pindos and Balkan mountains areas, despite other changes of a more clearly phyletic evolutionary nature. Thus the antiquity of the Sarakatsani type is, at the least extent indirectly established. The Sarakatsani are nothing more or less than a local Middle Palaeolithic survival, or, perhaps α reemergence. Being an ecological isolated group, they represent a local specialization, in which selection may have played a part, as well as possibly other factors associated with life in a mountainous area. Looking into the historical past of races in our continent, the Sarakatsani may be considered the most ancient population of Europe.

The data presented here once more verify the validity of the thesis taken by Oshinsky (1959) and Krogman (1964), that anthropometric and morphological traits must still be considered the nucleus of Physical Anthropology.

link:
http://www.aee.gr/english/5sarakatsani/sarakatsani.html

Love them. They belong in North Central Greece I think.

Persoana
05-14-2012, 05:22 PM
Cool read. These people are very fascinating to me. They may be among the closest to representing the surviving ancient Thracians, but were later Hellenized over time. They also remind me a lot of the Aromanians or Vlachs in northern Greece and so on, due to similar traditional pastoralist culture, some clothing styles, traditions, etc., one of the big differences being of course the language. Hope these people's culture won't die out and become completely assimilated, as it would be a shame. Wish we knew more about their past.

aja675
08-08-2013, 12:57 PM
Really interesting topic.