Decisive European victories against Muslim armies - Videos

[Leliana]

I'll post TV documentaries and movies portraying decisive battles against Muslims in the history of us Europeans here, moments who were deciding for what we are now. Let's remember our fallen heroes and hold them in good esteem. :) Memento mori!

732 AD. Decisive battle of Karl <the Hammer> Martel at Tours&Poitiers against the Muslim moors who tried to enter Central Europe.

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1096-1099 AD. The first Crusade as a reaction to the call to arms by Pope Urban II. because Muslim attacked, besieged and conquered Christian towns in the Near East and blocked Jerusalem for Christian pilgrims.

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718-1492 AD. The Reconquista of the Iberian peninsula from the Moors.

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1529 AD. The first siege of Vienna by the expansive and conquering Ottomans led by Suleiman I. Only 24.000 Viennese defenders were facing 86.000 Ottomans and other 120.000 people in the Ottoman baggage train! The Ottoman acinci plundered the regions around Vienna and raped, pillaged and murdered the villagers of any age and gender. But Vienna could resist! The Christian allies defended Vienna and saved Central Europe for the first time.

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1571 AD. The sea battle at Lepanto. 211 ships of the Catholic 'Holy League' led by Don Juan De Austria were facing 260 ships of the Ottoman Empire led by Ali Pascha at the gulf of Patras. The Ottoman Empire took a devastating defeat with 110 sunk ships, 150 captured ships and 30.000 dead people. The 'Holy League' lost 13 ships and had a death toll of 8.000. The battle destroyed Ottoman power on the sea for all times.

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1683 AD. The second siege of Vienna by the Ottoman Kara Mustafa Pascha. An overwhelming Ottoman army of 120.000 soldiers tried to defeat and conquer Vienna once and for all. Vienna was defended by merely 15.000 soldiers inside the city walls led by Fürst von Starhemberg. The relief army of the Catholic 'Holy League' with 70.000 soldiers came for help late but could turn the tide in the most decisive hour in European's history. The 'Holy League' relief army was a Catholic alliance of Austrian and German, Venetian and Polish-Lithuanian soldiers led by Charles V. of Lothringen and Johann III. Sobieski. When the relief army stormed down the hills around the city and attacked, the few remaining soldiers inside of Vienna opened the city gates to rough the Ottomans up from behind. The crushing and absolute defeat at Vienna was the beginning of the end of the Ottoman Empire. In the subsequent time the 'Holy League' freed the people on the Balkans from Ottoman oppression and forced the Ottoman Empire back behind the Bosporus.

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Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxi_TQmXxuM
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84h2dVZvLNM
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ-ce6ROg2Q
Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVpkcZJVrvY

[Osprey]

Battle at Montgisard
500 Templars and a leper defeated Saladin's 25,000 finest troops.
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[ChildOfTheJin]

You got beaten in the end, one by one. Saladin, a Kurdish hero <3

Not that I support Islam or anything, but Islam believes in the same god as you Christians do. So Why do you hate Islam?

I was born a Muslim but I left the religion. It's a fake religion, and so is Christianity and all other Semitic religions. They have succeeded in brainwashing you with their Semitic lies.

I do not mean to offend you, but this is my opinion, I have read both the bible and Quran, pretty much all of your beliefs have been taken from Aryan religions.

You should read "Return of the Medes" it's a great book which is my source and is also the reason why I left Islam.

I hope the Aryans will unite once more, from the western Aryans, to the eastern Aryans. Let's just cancel out the Persians, they suck . Only joking lol. But seriously, if you do not believe me, then that is your choice, I'm not forcing you to leave your religion.

May you live long my friends and may Ahura Mazda be with you!

[Annihilus]

Battle at Montgisard
500 Templars and a leper defeated Saladin's 25,000 finest troops.
pSx63aNy4H8


The Templars were leading the christian force, that is not the same as 500 vs 25.000. Still, they were outnumbered and managed to slaughter their opponent almost completely, gj.

[Gaijin]

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Here's an animation video, dating the "Reconquista" in Portugal led by the first Portuguese king, Dom Afonso Henriques.

NOTE: For some reason, the subtitles become incomplete when the video is embed to forums.
Try viewing it in Youtube, by clicking in the video.

[Methmatician]

So much butthurt.

http://cdn.business2community.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/michael-jordan-lol.gif

[Flintlocke]

Battle at Montgisard
500 Templars and a leper defeated Saladin's 25,000 finest troops.
pSx63aNy4H8

Was the leper doing biological warfare on them? :D:D

[Virtuous]

and nothing was ever mentioned about Malta.

I.ARE.DISSAPOINT.

[Flintlocke]

^ Go back to riding your camels and screwing tourist gals :P

[Hayalet]

The crushing and absolute defeat at Vienna was the beginning of the end of the Ottoman Empire. In the subsequent time the 'Holy League' freed the people on the Balkans from Ottoman oppression and forced the Ottoman Empire back behind the Bosporus.
Not really. Almost entirety of the Balkans were still an Ottoman province in 1800, which is more than a century after the Battle of Vienna.

http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/1800/1800.jpg

The actual collapse of the Ottoman Empire was during a little something called the First World War, which had started because some Balkan folks rebelled against the Austrian yoke. :)

To make the matters worse, both Austria and Germany considered Ottoman Turks as their dear allies at that time. :grouphug:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Drei_Kaiser_Bund.jpg

[Virtuous]

"Go back to riding your camels"

don't have any, sorry.

"screwing tourist gals"

plenty of them (in summer) :D

[Riki]

Battle of Diu (1509)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Battle_of_Diu_1509.jpg/300px-Battle_of_Diu_1509.jpg

The Battle of Diu sometimes referred as the Second Battle of Chaul was a naval battle fought on 3 February 1509 in the Arabian Sea, near the port of Diu, India, between the Portuguese Empire and a joint fleet of the Sultan of Gujarat, the Mamlûk Burji Sultanate of Egypt, the Zamorin of Calicut with support of Ottomans, the Republic of Venice and the Republic of Ragusa (Dubrovnik).[2]
The Portuguese victory was critical: Mamluks and Arabs retreated, easing the Portuguese strategy of controlling the Indian Ocean to route trade down the Cape of Good Hope, circumventing the traditional spice route controlled by the Arabs and the Venetians through the Red Sea and Persian Gulf. After the battle, Portugal rapidly captured key ports in the Indian Ocean like Goa, Ceylon, Malacca and Ormuz, crippling the Mamluk Sultanate of Egypt and the Gujarat Sultanate, greatly assisting the growth of the Portuguese Empire and setting its trade dominance for almost a century, until it was taken during the Dutch-Portuguese Wars and the Battle of Swally won by the British East India Company in 1612. It marks the beginning of the European colonialism in Asia. It also marks the spillover of the Christian-Islamic power struggle, in and around the Mediterranean Sea and the Middle East, into the Indian Ocean which was the most important region for international trade at the time.

Date 3 February 1509
Location Diu, India
Result Decisive Portuguese victory
Belligerents
Portuguese Empire V Gujarat Sultanate
Mamlûk Sultanate
Zamorin of Calicut
Ottoman Empire
Republic of Venice
Republic of Ragusa
Commanders and leaders
Dom Francisco de Almeida.
Amir Husain Al-Kurdi
Malik Ayyaz
Kunjali Marakkar


Portugues Empire
18 ships; including
12 carracks and 6 smaller
caravels
1,300 Portuguese
400 Hindu-Nairs

Muslims (And others)
More than 250 ships, including 12 major ships, 40 galleys of Gujarat and 80 smaller ships of the Zamorin[1]
Casualties and losses
Unknown Unknown
Portuguese battles in the Indian Ocean

Ottoman–Portuguese Conflicts

Portuguese colonial campaigns

[Dilberth]

Battle of Siget was a siege of the Siget Fortress in Baranya (near the present Hungarian/Croatian border) which blocked Suleiman's line of advance towards Vienna in 1566 AD.

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Nikola Šubić Zrinski or Miklos Zrinyi (in Hungarian)(1508--1566) was a Croatian soldier in service of the Habsburg Monarchy and member of the Zrinski noble family.
He distinguished himself at the siege of Vienna in 1529, and in 1542 saved the imperial army from defeat before Pest by intervening with 400 Croats, for which he was appointed ban of Croatia.
He later beat the Turks in the Battle of Babócsa and the Battle of Somlyo.
Zrinski resigned as ban in 1561.
In 1566, from August 5 to September 7, his small force (2,300 soldiers) heroically defended the little fortress of Siget against the Turks (90,000 soldiers and 300 cannons), led by Suleiman the Magnificent in person. The Croatian forces of Zrinski repulsed 3 all-out Turk assaults for several weeks. Despite their inferiority, the imperial army did not send them any reinforcements.
After days of bloody struggle, the defenders retreated into the Old City; with the majority of Croats already dead, this was their last stand. The Turks tried to lure Zrinski into submission, offering him rule over all of Croatia but to no avail. Zrinski said: "nobody will point his finger on my children in contempt." During the Siege Suleiman died on 7th September. But the news was kept secret so that it would not ruin morale at the end of the siege.
The next day the final battle was conducted. The castle of Siget was burnt down to ruined walls and the all-out attack by the Turks began who swarmed against the Old City, drumming and yelling. Zrinski prepared for the last charge, addressing his men: "..Let us go out from this burning place into the open and stand up to our enemies. Who dies - he will be with God. Who dies not - his name will be honoured. I will go first, and what I do, you do. And God is my witness - I will never leave you, my brothers and knights!
Zrinski led an exit force of 600 troops from the castle. He was heavily wounded at his chest and his head by Turkish bullets. At the end, his dead body was beheaded. The Turks took the fort and effectively won the battle. Only 7 defenders managed to get through Turkish lines. The Turks suffered heavy losses, estimated at 18,000 cavalrymen and 7,000 elite janissaries and several high-ranked officers.

[Onur]

In fact there is nothing to be proud of for Croats and Hungarians for the events of 17th century in central Europe.

Papacy with his allies in Vienna sacrificed 10.000s of poor Hungarians and Croat peasants and threw them in front of Ottoman army like sheeps to slaughter, so the elite in Vienna and evil Papacy remains intact. They just converted you to catholicism, made you as their servants and abused laters by using them as some kind of human barricade against Ottoman army to gain more time.


Isn't that strange; Balkanites here cursing Ottoman empire for getting christians and using them as soldiers in Janissary squad while being proud of serving as a human barricade for the Papacy in Vienna at the same time? Also, there was no more than 30-40k Janissary soldiers back then while Papacy threw maybe 100k of them to the fire back then. So why you are not cursing to the Pope for forcefully throwing your ancestors to their death?

[Insuperable]

In fact there is nothing to be proud of for Croats and Hungarians for the events of 17th century in central Europe.

Papacy with his allies in Vienna sacrificed 10.000s of poor Hungarians and Croat peasants and threw them in front of Ottoman army like sheeps to slaughter, so the elite in Vienna and evil Papacy remains intact. They just converted you to catholicism, made you as their servants and abused laters by using them as some kind of human barricade against Ottoman army to gain more time.


Isn't that strange; Balkanites here cursing Ottoman empire for getting christians and using them as soldiers in Janissary squad while being proud of serving as a human barricade for the Papacy in Vienna at the same time? Also, there was no more than 30-40k Janissary soldiers back then while Papacy threw maybe 100k of them to the fire back then. So why you are not cursing to the Pope for forcefully throwing your ancestors to their death?

You are obsessed with the Papacy and Catholicism. I admire how you manage to connect a large number of discussions with Papacy and Catholicism or Christianity. Religion played its role in those days but defending its own and because of that "neigboroughing" countries was more important. I guess Papacy did not threw them as threw threw themselves.
Are you agnostic only on TA so you can badmouth Christianity? I can not help myself not to think that because you almost never badmouth other matters and if you do you never do it so incisively as you do with Chrisitanity.

[morski]

In fact there is nothing to be proud of for Croats and Hungarians for the events of 17th century in central Europe.

Papacy with his allies in Vienna sacrificed 10.000s of poor Hungarians and Croat peasants and threw them in front of Ottoman army like sheeps to slaughter, so the elite in Vienna and evil Papacy remains intact. They just converted you to catholicism, made you as their servants and abused laters by using them as some kind of human barricade against Ottoman army to gain more time.


Isn't that strange; Balkanites here cursing Ottoman empire for getting christians and using them as soldiers in Janissary squad while being proud of serving as a human barricade for the Papacy in Vienna at the same time? Also, there was no more than 30-40k Janissary soldiers back then while Papacy threw maybe 100k of them to the fire back then. So why you are not cursing to the Pope for forcefully throwing your ancestors to their death?

:D

http://www.dailysquib.co.uk/thumbnail.php?file=cat_124/1194.jpg&size=article_medium

Beware, pagan!

[Onur]

You are obsessed with the Papacy and Catholicism. I admire how you manage to connect a large number of discussions with Papacy and Catholicism or Christianity.
I saw several messages about the siege of Vienna in 17th century here. Pope called Poles, Croats and Hungarians to defend catholism and they died in the name of their religion. Can you tell me how come i can separate catholism and Pope from out of this event?

It`s just you guys are turning into blind eye to teh facts and then create an imaginary story of heroism out of this.

[askra]

1571 AD. The sea battle at Lepanto. 211 ships of the Catholic 'Holy League' led by Don Juan De Austria were facing 260 ships of the Ottoman Empire led by Ali Pascha at the gulf of Patras. The Ottoman Empire took a devastating defeat with 110 sunk ships, 150 captured ships and 30.000 dead people. The 'Holy League' lost 13 ships and had a death toll of 8.000. The battle destroyed Ottoman power on the sea for all times.

MUo1lmPzfuo

The firsts that attacked and captured the Ottoman Flagship, the Sultana, during the Battle of Lepanto, were the arquebusiers of Tercio de Cerdeña, a military unit located in Sardinia, that operated also as personal guard of John of Austria. :D

[Insuperable]

I saw several messages about the siege of Vienna in 17th century here. Pope called Poles, Croats and Hungarians to defend catholism and they died in the name of their religion. Can you tell me how come i can separate catholism and Pope from out of this event?

It`s just you guys are turning into blind eye to teh facts and then create an imaginary story of heroism out of this.

But how dare you speak like that when all that shit started because of Turks and Turks tried to take Vienna not once but two time even after the signing of peace which Turks broke? Regarding Poles, rich people in Holy Roman empire and the Church decided to finance Poles which I think they in the end did not accept to be funded.
Hungarians, Croats and Austrians during that time had some political ties because of the Habsburg Monarchy (not to mention that later battle of Petrovaradin liberated Croatia totally and particularly the battle of Vienna was a starting point for the liberalization of Europe and Croatia where in the Treaty of Sremski Karlovci 1699, the Turks renounced all claims to Hungary and Croatia)so defending the Catholic Church was not the only reason for all them to collectively join in the battle and yet it was possible that Turks breach into Central Europe which had to be stopped.
In short, they called and they answered the call, nobody called you.

[Leliana]

In fact there is nothing to be proud of for Croats and Hungarians for the events of 17th century in central Europe.

Papacy with his allies in Vienna sacrificed 10.000s of poor Hungarians and Croat peasants and threw them in front of Ottoman army like sheeps to slaughter, so the elite in Vienna and evil Papacy remains intact.
You have a sick and distorted view of history. What an incredible venture to turn the guilt question upside down! :picard2: So now the Catholic defenders and their allies are responsible for the death of the defenders?

How about the guilt of the Ottoman aggressors? If they hadn't attacked and tried to conquer huge parts of Europe there would've been no need for 10.000s of Hungarians, Croats, Germans, Austrians and Polish people to die in battle!

Something in your head can't be normal. :033102st: I'm accustomed to such moments of madness when arguing with Muslims and Turks.

[Annihilus]

You have a sick and distorted view of history. What an incredible venture to turn the guilt question upside down! :picard2: So now the Catholic defenders and their allies are responsible for the death of the defenders?

How about the guilt of the Ottoman aggressors? If they hadn't attacked and tried to conquer huge parts of Europe there would've been no need for 10.000s of Hungarians, Croats, Germans, Austrians and Polish people to die in battle!

Something in your head can't be normal. :033102st: I'm accustomed to such moments of madness when arguing with Muslims and Turks.

Comon Leliana, if you wouldn't have to fight us, you would just fight amongst each other. Nothing would change really, that was the way of life back then. Why do you have to make it so personal and keep living in the past?

[Leliana]

Comon Leliana, if you wouldn't have to fight us, you would just fight amongst each other. Nothing would change really, that was the way of life back then. Why do you have to make it so personal and keep living in the past?
I'm not living in the past but to understand the current world and to prepare for the future we need to know history. Muslims and Turks have never changed! They never stopped their efforts to colonize and islamsize Europe. They have and never had a chance in wars so now they try it with 'peaceful' immigration and changing our countries from within by gaining political power and influence. Your leader Erdogan has made clear what's the longterm goal of Turkish politics. The West! What did he say? '2071 is the goal'. That's the 1000th anniversary of the battle at Manzikert where you Turks defeated the Byzantine Empire. Later you killed countless of other people like Greeks and Armenians. And now you want to defeat our countries.

Your people were always a threat to our Occidental European world, you people are a threat and will stay a threat. You are not to be trusted and sympathy or friendship are lost on you! As we speak Muslim and Turkish politicians and their immigrant columns in our countries lead their jihad and attempt to change our civilization to a Dar-Al-Islam.

Oh and spare me your Taquia.

[el22]

Comon Leliana, if you wouldn't have to fight us, you would just fight amongst each other. Nothing would change really, that was the way of life back then. Why do you have to make it so personal and keep living in the past?
That's bullshit. Now we need to be thankful for being occupied.
I don't live in the past, but some Turks here, with Onur in head, are really dickheads.

[Annihilus]

I'm not living in the past but to understand the current world and to prepare for the future we need to know history. Muslims and Turks have never changed! They never stopped their efforts to colonize and islamsize Europe. They have and never had a chance in wars so now they try it with 'peaceful' immigration and changing our countries from within by gaining political power and influence. Your leader Erdogan has made clear what's the longterm goal of Turkish politics. The West! What did he say? '2071 is the goal'. That's the 1000th anniversary of the battle at Manzikert where you Turks defeated the Byzantine Empire. Later you killed countless of other people like Greeks and Armenians. And now you want to defeat our countries.

Your people were always a threat to our Occidental European world, you people are a threat and will stay a threat. You are not to be trusted and sympathy or friendship are lost on you! As we speak Muslim and Turkish politicians and their immigrant columns in our countries lead their jihad and attempt to change our civilization to a Dar-Al-Islam.

Oh and spare me your Taquia.

Indeed we must look at history to understand the present and take lessons for the future. During WWI we were allies and we both lost. But what happened after? We changed mentality and adopted a new world view. What did you do? You were so hurt in your pride that you couldn't live with it and look what happened. More people died than all the previous wars combined in Europe.

So if you look at history don't just take one aspect of it but look at the whole picture, otherwise you can never understand the present let alone know what the future might bring.

[Annihilus]

That's bullshit. Now we need to be thankful for being occupied.
I don't live in the past, but some Turks here, with Onur in head, are really dickheads.

Where did I say you need to be thankful for being occupied?:picard1:

[el22]

Where did I say you need to be thankful for being occupied?:picard1:
You implied it, by saving us from fighting each-other.

[Annihilus]

You implied it, by saving us from fighting each-other.

I didn't say we saved you from it, I just said that people back then fought each other all the time. It was the standard back then, there would have been fighting even if Turks had never existed on the planet. Proof is WWII, we weren't there, why did you keep on fighting?

[Vukodav]

The Battle of Fundina took place on 2 August 1876 in Fundina, a village in Kuči, Principality of Montenegro. The Montenegrin Army was led by the
two Montenegrin dukes, Ilija Plamenac
and Marko Miljanov, who had about 5,000 people uder their direct command.
Days before the battle, a Montenegrin
Muslim, Mašo-Hadži Ahmetov revealed
Ottoman plans to Marko Miljanov, so that Montenegrins knew where the attack was going to come from. The Ottomans advanced from the
Southwest towards Kuči, planning their
final attack for 3 August. But, since
Montenegrin commanders knew of their
plans, they counterattacked a day
before. Most of the fighting occurred at the bottom of Heljam hill, where
Ottomans were defending from the
trenches. While Marko Miljanov was in
the front lines, Ilija Plamenac was
commanding the Montenegrin army from
the back, developing a strategy. After the victory was secured, Montenegrins
captured the Ottoman leaders, put them
in a house and burned it to the ground.
The rest of Montenegrins chased the
remaining Ottomans soutward, forcing
them into a fast retreat. The importance of this Montenegrin
victory was that it stopped the Turkish
advance, and secured Montenegrin
victory in the Montenegrin-Turkish War of 1876-1878.
5000 Montenegrins beated 40000 Turks :D

[Osprey]

Its very interesting how some turkish guys use smooth, honey like language of ''forgiving'' and ''living in the past'' with Christian girls like Leliana but don't bother to respond to Christian guys like Solin, or when they do they always use retorts.

[Annihilus]

Its very interesting how some turkish guys use smooth, honey like language of ''forgiving'' and ''living in the past'' with Christian girls like Leliana but don't bother to respond to Christian guys like Solin, or when they do they always use retorts.

Hmm, my response was in general and would include Solin. And it is not about forgiving but more about moving on, how else can you evolve. If we didn't everything would always stay the same. Am I going to revenge all my ancestors or ask for forgiveness for what they did? How far back do I go with that? 1 gen 2 gen 20 gen 50 gen? Well with 5 gen or so I have my own ancestors killing each other allready so what I do now is the best way to honor them all. You may say it is honey language, that is your right but I really have a different view about it.

[The Lawspeaker]

Well rather than the Islam shit for me the most important battles are Alkmaar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Alkmaar), Leiden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Leiden), Turnhout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Turnhout_(1597)), Nieuwpoort (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nieuwpoort), Breitenfeld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Breitenfeld_(1631)), Gibraltar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gibraltar), Matanzas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_in_the_Bay_of_Matanzas), 's-Hertogenbosch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_%27s-Hertogenbosch) .. where the papists were decisively licked.

[Flintlocke]

A crusader was a pagan with a cross on, he just had a rhetoric that said it was different. That's why I like them, rape, plunder, wholesale slaughter. Hail to the Crusaders!

[northspaniard]

I know a Turk here, he's friendly and no problem with him. He behaves as an european. But arabs, pakis, etc. are different, indeed they try to change our society in places like Catalonia or Madrid, where they are a crowd. Even become aggresive when we "offend" them with our behavior. You cannot deny this, Onur. I dont see turks as those bastards.

[Onur]

Well rather than the Islam shit for me the most important battles are Alkmaar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Alkmaar), Leiden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Leiden), Turnhout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Turnhout_(1597)), Nieuwpoort (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nieuwpoort), Breitenfeld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Breitenfeld_(1631)), Gibraltar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gibraltar), Matanzas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_in_the_Bay_of_Matanzas), 's-Hertogenbosch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_%27s-Hertogenbosch) .. where the papists were decisively licked.
Tuan, if Ottoman empire would beat Papacy and destroy their powerhouse in Vienna in 16th century, then there wouldn't be any of these wars above and there wouldn't be a period of 80 years of war either, You wouldn't loose millions of lives against the forces of Papacy.

So i still hold my own opinion; Turkish defeat in Vienna was the world`s one of biggest turning points in history and i am sure that the world would be a much better place today if Turks would defeat them as early as 1520s.

[el22]

Argh, you're full of crap Onur.
Societies mature by gaining experience.
They gain experience by 'experiencing' different "philosophies", or approaches, to life or distinctive problems.
By being occupied, or "stabilized" as you might wish to call it, you only delay that process. It still has to happen.

[Leliana]

Tuan, if Ottoman empire would beat Papacy and destroy their powerhouse in Vienna in 16th century, then there wouldn't be any of these wars above and there wouldn't be a period of 80 years of war either, You wouldn't loose millions of lives against the forces of Papacy.
I can't believe that you can write such ridiculous nonsense and think it's a product of a sound mind. The Ottoman Empire was a conquering, oppressive, islamic, reckless, brutal and enslaving regime! The Balkan suffered for centuries and the people and countries there still didn't regain their full potential and power thanks to the Ottoman influence of keeping them down and treating them as cattle!

If your abominable Ottoman Turks had won in Vienna then Central Europe up to the Netherlands and beyond would have fallen in the hands of your Turkish Anatolian barbarian horde with the result that the scientific ascent, the industrial revolution, the rise of the European national states and the democratic awakening of free people would have never taken place! We were all backward slaves or second-class citizens like the Kurds or the Armenians for the longest time.

So i still hold my own opinion; Turkish defeat in Vienna was the world`s one of biggest turning points in history and i am sure that the world would be a much better place today if Turks would defeat them as early as 1520s.
Much drivel is going on in your malicious and spoiled dreams. :picard1:

I regret that our Holy League of Catholic armies didn't take full advantage of the weakness of the Ottoman Empire after their crushing defeat at Vienna to land on the other side of the Bosporus in order to free Konstantinopel and to drive your Turkish plebs back behind Anatolia to the place where your people really belong to: To Turkmenistan and Azerbaidschan! Anatolia should be handed over to the Armenians and Kurds and the western half of Asia Minor belongs to Greece or a new-to-found Byzantine country.

[Osprey]

Sorry Onur, humiliating peace which involves bowing down to the Caliph/Sultan, licking the ground in front of him, destruction of monaestries and slaughter of educated monks, paying jaziya, seeing pretty European girls being taken to Sultan's harems and serving as a Janissary to kill your own kin is much worse than a proud death.
Plus, the Papacy is much better preserving secrets and inspiring tall tales!

[The Lawspeaker]

Tuan, if Ottoman empire would beat Papacy and destroy their powerhouse in Vienna in 16th century, then there wouldn't be any of these wars above and there wouldn't be a period of 80 years of war either, You wouldn't loose millions of lives against the forces of Papacy.

So i still hold my own opinion; Turkish defeat in Vienna was the world`s one of biggest turning points in history and i am sure that the world would be a much better place today if Turks would defeat them as early as 1520s.

I am not sure whether the world would have been a better place if the Turks would have won at Vienna in 1520. For the Netherlands there was nothing to gain just yet (the struggle for independence would start 40 years later) but a Turkish victory over the armies of the pope and his henchmen would have prevented a lot of religious wars. In 1520 there was also not much of a protestant revolt going on (Luther only went to Wittenberg as late as 1517) but it might have put a stop to the Peasant's Wars in Germany (which Luther himself condemned btw: being the good papist lap dog that he actually was).

[StonyArabia]

Well it's true the Franks blocked the Arabs from entering into Central and Northern Europe. However it was not the Christians who blocked them from entering Eastern Europe. The Arabs having subdued the South Caucasus, now began to penetrate the North Caucasus, but in all wars they were defeated, and the climate was very cold and snowy which probably helped in their defeat. These people were called the Khazars who became converted to Judaism and were Turkic and created their empire Khazaria. The Byzantines would eventually ally with the Khazars against the Arabs, remembering that most of their empire vanquished to them. In fact the Byzantines even intermarried with Khazar royalty to seal this alliance. Without the Khazars, the Arabs would probably have grapped not only the Med but the Black sea and much of Eastern Europe.

[Insuperable]

Well it's true the Franks blocked the Arabs from entering into Central and Northern Europe. However it was not the Christians who blocked them from entering Eastern Europe. The Arabs having subdued the South Caucasus, now began to penetrate the North Caucasus, but in all wars they were defeated, and the climate was very cold and snowy which probably helped in their defeat. These people were called the Khazars who became converted to Judaism and were Turkic and created their empire Khazaria. The Byzantines would eventually ally with the Khazars against the Arabs, remembering that most of their empire vanquished to them. In fact the Byzantines even intermarried with Khazar royalty to seal this alliance.

If you are talking about Ashkenazi's that hypothesis is debunked a long time ago since AJ are very high on Med.

[StonyArabia]

If you are talking about Ashkenazi's that hypothesis is debunked a long time ago since AJ are very high on Med.

Nope, I am speaking about the Khazar's role in how they helped block the Arabs from entering into Eastern Europe. Today the descendant of the Khazars are all Sunni Muslim, and they indeed have nothing to do with the Ashkenazim. The Khazars were basically an Oghurified North Caucasian people, who were more likely similar to modern Adyghea/Chechens than anyone else.

[Anatolian Eagle]

Its very interesting how some turkish guys use smooth, honey like language of ''forgiving'' and ''living in the past'' with Christian girls like Leliana but don't bother to respond to Christian guys like Solin, or when they do they always use retorts.

Man you sure are paranoid as hell when it comes to girls. :D

I also prefer to use same so-called "honey language" but I use it to anyone else, whether guy or girl, or Christian or atheist, simply because I think the same way Annihilus. That's of course unless I'm getting offended as fuck, insulted, or forced to respond other way, but even in such situtation I generally try to avoid that since it will add nothing but an unneccesary flamebait and hostility.

[Anatolian Eagle]

Nope, I am speaking about the Khazar's role in how they helped block the Arabs from entering into Eastern Europe. Today the descendant of the Khazars are all Sunni Muslim, and they indeed have nothing to do with the Ashkenazim. The Khazars were basically an Oghurified North Caucasian people, who were more likely similar to modern Adyghea/Chechens than anyone else.

Khazars for sure weren't Turkified Circassians :picard1:

They were Oghur Turks but their empire were multietnic as they expanded their territory (Khazaria), they consisted Turkics, Slavs, Caucasians etc ruled by a Turkic elite. Many of their descendants converted to Islam or Christianity (although their Turkic declared Judaism as official religion to prevent that) as the empire was fallen. Crimean Karaites and Krymchaks are notable for still holding their Turkic langauge (althought their language doesn't belong to Oghur branch anymore but Kypchak one) and Jewish religion, they're usually regarded as descentdants of Khazars and they also regard themselves that way. The Ashkenazim also sometimes regarded as releated to Khazars, as written by Arthur Koestlers book The Thirteenth Tribe, however it still remains as an uncertainity in my opinion.

[Prince Carlo]

Nope, I am speaking about the Khazar's role in how they helped block the Arabs from entering into Eastern Europe. Today the descendant of the Khazars are all Sunni Muslim, and they indeed have nothing to do with the Ashkenazim. The Khazars were basically an Oghurified North Caucasian people, who were more likely similar to modern Adyghea/Chechens than anyone else.

Khazars were Turkic Nomads not north Caucasian. The Mokshas are a better candidate IMHO.

[Leliana]

1595 AD. Battle of Calugareni. The Battle of Calugareni was one of the most important battles in the history of early modern Romania. It took place on August 1595 between the Wallachian army led by Michael the Brave and the Ottoman army led by Sinan Pasha. It was part of the Long War, fought between Christian and Ottoman forces at the end of the 16th - beginning of the 17th centuries. The whole Ottoman forces were estimated at about 100,000 men, Michael the Brave had in total about 16,000 men and 12 large field cannons, with Transylvanian detachments.
Michael continued his attacks deep within the Ottoman Empire, taking the forts of Nicopolis, Ribnic, Chilia and even reaching as far as Adrianopel. At one point his forces were only 24 kilometers away from Konstantinopel. The Ottoman defeat was wholesome.

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[Insuperable]

The Ashkenazim also sometimes regarded as releated to Khazars, as written by Arthur Koestlers book The Thirteenth Tribe, however it still remains as an uncertainity in my opinion.

Well, you can write off that uncertainty since it has been stated so many times by researchers that studies done on Ashkenazi's refute the idea that Ashkenazi's are Khazar or Slavic converts ( at least for a major part ).

Who cares what Koestler said. As an example our first moden president Tudjman explored and was a proponent of an idea that Croats are Iranians.

[northspaniard]

If your abominable Ottoman Turks had won in Vienna then Central Europe up to the Netherlands and beyond would have fallen in the hands of your Turkish Anatolian barbarian horde with the result that the scientific ascent, the industrial revolution, the rise of the European national states and the democratic awakening of free people would have never taken place! We were all backward slaves or second-class citizens like the Kurds or the Armenians for the longest time.


This is true. The scientific progress and liberal/democratic ideas never would raise under a non-western european-protestant environment. Even less in a islamic one.