PDA

View Full Version : Ancient Greeks, the racists



Flintlocke
10-08-2012, 08:47 AM
Found something interesting at the Golden Dawn website.

http://www.xryshaygh.com/index.php/enimerosi/view/o-ethnikismos-twn-archaiwn-ellhnwn#.UHKNTa7hccc

The author brings to light many racial writings of ancient Greeks, I have translated to the best of my knowledge some of them that I find interesting.

κάποιος που ξέρει αρχαία καλύτερα ας μεταφράσει κάποια αν θέλει :)

Plato:

Ἀς λάβουμε ὑπ᾽ ὅψιν ὅτι ὁτιδήποτε παραλαμβάνουν οἱ Ἕλληνες ἀπὸ τοὺς βαρβάρους, τὸ ὀμορφαίνουν καὶ τὸ τελειοποιοῦν

Let's take into account that whatever the Greeks take from the barbarians they perfect it.

Aristotle:

Οἱ μελαγχροινοὶ ἄνθρωποι εἶναι δειλοί. Παράδειγμα οἱ Αἰγύπτιοι, οἱ Αἰθίοπες. Οἱ ξανθοὶ εἶναι γενναῖοι ὅπως τὸ γένος τῶν Αἰλουροειδῶν, τὰ γενναιότερα ἀπ’τα ζῷα. Παράδειγμα οἱ Δωριεῖς. Οἱ λίαν πυῤῥόχρωμοι εἶναι πανοῦργοι, ὅπως οἱ Ἀλώπεκες. Ὅσοι ἔχουν τὸ χρῶμα ἐρυθρόν, οὗτοι εἶναι ταχεῖς εἰς τὰς κινήσεις· διότι πάντα τὰ μέρη τοῦ σώματος θερμαινόμενα ὑπὸ τῆς κινήσεως κοκκινίζουν. Εἰς ὅσους δὲ τὸ χρῶμα εἶναι φλογοειδές, οὗτοι ὑπόκεινται εἰς τὴν φρενοβλάβειαν· διότι τὰ τοῦ σώματος θερμαινόμενα ὑπερβολικῶς προσλαμβάνουν χρῶμα φλογοειδές· οἱ δὲ εἰς τὸ ἔπακρον θερμανθέντες κατ’ ἀνάγκην θὰ εἶναι φρενοβλαβεῖς. Εἰς ὅσους δὲ τὸ περὶ τὰ στήθη χρῶμα εἶναι πύρινον, οὗτοι εὐκόλως ὀργίζονται. Εἰς ὅσους οἱ ὀφθαλμοὶ εἶναι σκοῦροι, εἶναι δειλοί ὅπως ὁ Λαγῶος, ἡ Ἔλαφος, τὸ Πρόβατο. Εἰς ὅσους εἶναι ἀνοιχτόχρωμοι, εἶναι γενναῖοι. Ὅσοι ἔχουν ἀπαστράπτοντες καὶ πράσινους ὀφθαλμούς, εἶναι γενναῖοι στὴν ψυχήν, ὅπως ὁ Τίγρης, ὁ Λέων καὶ ὁ Ἀετός. Ὅσων οἱ ὀφθαλμοὶ εἶναι βαθέος χρώματος οἴνου, αὐτοὶ εἶναι λαίμαργοι.

The dark peoples are cowards. Take for example the Egyptians and Aethiopians. The light peoples are brave like the felines, the bravest of the animals. For example the Dorians. The red haired are cunning like the Alopekes(?) The redheads are swift in movement because their body gets red through much blood flowing. Those who are redheads are also prone to crazyness because the overheating by the blood creates a tendency to madness. Those whose chests are red are very prone to anger. Those who have dark eyes are cowards, like the rabbit, the deer, the sheep. Those who have light eyes are brave. Those with blue(? ἀπαστράπτοντες ?) and green eyes have a brave soul like the tiger, the lion, the eagle. Those whose eyes are of deep "wine" color, they are gluttonous and greedy.


Aristotle:

ΤΑ ΜΕΝ ΕΘΝΗ ΤΩΝ ΨΥΧΡΩΝ ΤΟΠΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΤΗΣ ΕΥΡΩΠΗΣ (ΤΟΥ ΒΟΡΡΑ) ΕΙΝΑΙ ΠΛΗΡΗ ΘΥΜΟΥ (= ΠΟΛΕΜΙΚΟΥ ΜΕΝΟΥΣ), ΑΛΛΑ ΥΠΟΔΕΕΣΤΕΡΑ ΣΕ ΔΙΑΝΟΙΑ ΚΑΙ ΤΕΧΝΗ (=ΕΦΕΥΡΕΤΙΚΟΤΗΤΑ-ΤΕΧΝΟΛΟΓΙΑ-ΕΠΙΣΤΗΜΗ). ΓΙ' ΑΥΤΟ ΔΙΑΤΕΛΟΥΝ ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΑ ΜΕΝ, ΑΠΟΛΙΤΙΣΤΑ ΔΕ ΚΑΙ ΑΝΙΚΑΝΑ ΝΑ ΑΡΧΟΥΝ ΤΩΝ ΠΛΗΣΙΟΝ ΤΟΥΣ. ΤΑ ΔΕ ΑΣΙΑΤΙΚΑ ΕΘΝΗ (ΑΝΑΤΟΛΙΤΕΣ) ΕΙΝΑΙ ΜΕΝ ΔΙΑΝΟΗΤΙΚΑ ΚΑΙ ΤΕΧΝΙΚΑ, ΑΛΛΑ ΑΘΥΜΑ (=ΔΕΙΛΑ) ΣΤΗΝ ΨΥΧΗ ΤΟΥΣ, ΓΙ' ΑΥΤΟ ΔΙΑΤΕΛΟΥΝ ΑΡΧΟΜΕΝΑ ΚΑΙ ΥΠΟΔΟΥΛΩΜΕΝΑ.

The nations of the cold areas of Europe (the north) are full of fury but lower in intellect and art (inventiveness, technology, science) therefore they are free but uncivilized and cannot rule their fellow man. The asiatic nations (easterners) are intelligent and technical but they lack the rage (are cowards) in their soul. Therefore they are enslaved and ruled by tyrants.


ΤΟ ΔΕ ΓΕΝΟΣ ΤΩΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ, "ΩΣΠΕΡ ΜΕΣΕΥΕΙ ΚΑΤΑ ΤΟΥΣ ΤΟΠΟΥΣ" (ΚΑΘΩΣ ΒΡΙΣΚΕΤΑΙ ΣΕ ΕΝΔΙΑΜΕΣΟ ΓΕΩΓΡΑΦΙΚΟ ΣΗΜΕΙΟ), ΜΕΤΕΧΕΙ ΚΑΙ ΣΤΑ ΔΥΟ: ΕΙΝΑΙ ΚΑΙ ΕΥ-ΘΥΜΟΝ (ΓΕΝΝΑΙΟ, ΗΡΩΪΚΟ) ΚΑΙ ΔΙΑΝΟΗΤΙΚΟΝ. ΓΙ'ΑΥΤΟ ΚΑΙ ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΟ ΔΙΑΤΕΛΕΙ ΚΑΙ ΔΗΜΙΟΥΡΓΕΙ ΒΕΛΤΙΣΤΟ ΠΟΛΙΤΙΣΜΟ, ΙΚΑΝΟ ΝΑ ΑΡΧΕΙ ΕΠΙ ΠΑΝΤΩΝ. ΑΥΤΗΝ ΤΗΝ ΔΙΑΦΟΡΑ ΕΧΟΥΝ ΚΑΙ ΤΑ ΔΙΑΦΟΡΑ ΕΘΝΗ ΤΩΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ ΜΕΤΑΞΥ ΤΟΥΣ. ΤΑ ΜΕΝ ΕΧΟΥΝ ΜΟΝΟΠΛΕΥΡΗ ΙΔΙΟΣΥΓΚΡΑΣΙΑ, ΤΑ ΔΕ ΕΧΟΥΝ ΜΕΣΑ ΤΟΥΣ ΤΟ ΒΕΛΤΙΣΤΟ ΜΙΓΜΑ ΑΥΤΩΝ ΤΩΝ 2 ΔΥΝΑΜΕΩΝ...

The Greek gene (notice the word), since it lies in between geographically takes part in both. It is both furious and intelligent. Therefore it is free but also creates excellent culture. Capable to rule over all. That is the difference between the Greek tribes. Some are one sided, some have a perfect mixture of those two forces.

Ippocrates:

ΟΙ ΑΣΙΑΤΕΣ ΔΙΑΦΕΡΟΥΝ ΩΣ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΗΝ ΙΔΙΟΣΥΓΚΡΑΣΙΑ ΚΑΙ ΤΗΝ ΜΟΡΦΗ ΑΠΟ ΤΟΥΣ ΕΥΡΩΠΑΙΟΥΣ, ΚΑΘΩΣ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΠΙΟ ΔΕΙΛΟΙ, ΑΠΟΛΕΜΟΙ ΚΑΙ ΑΝΑΝΔΡΟΙ. ΑΙΤΙΑ ΕΙΝΑΙ Η ΕΚΕΙ ΣΤΑΘΕΡΟΤΗΤΑ ΤΟΥ ΚΛΙΜΑΤΟΣ. ΟΙ ΒΙΑΙΕΣ ΑΛΛΑΓΕΣ ΤΟΥ ΚΛΙΜΑΤΟΣ, ΟΠΩΣ ΣΥΜΒΑΙΝΕΙ ΣΤΗΝ ΕΥΡΩΠΗ, ΥΠΟΒΑΛΛΟΥΝ ΤΗΝ ΨΥΧΗ ΚΑΙ ΤΟ ΣΩΜΑ ΣΕ ΕΝΤΟΝΟΥΣ ΚΛΟΝΙΣΜΟΥΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΑ ΚΑΘΙΣΤΟΥΝ ΠΙΟ ΘΑΡΡΑΛΕΑ ΚΑΙ ΣΚΛΗΡΑ.

The asians differ from the Europeans both in character and appearance, since they are more cowardly, peaceful, and emasculated. The cause is the stability of the climate there. The violent changes of climate like in Europe submit the body and mind to intense stress and create brave and tough people.




The racial observations of the Ancients don't differ much from today's scientifically proven differences. The Ancients had no qualms about observing nature and saying exactly what they saw, in contrast to today's feel good ideologies that want to make man something he isn't, just for them to feel better. The appearance of these perennial forces in the 20th century on in the form of Fascism/NS are merely the return of the Ancient wisdom applied to today's world with modern technology. The Ancient Greeks were more "racist" than today's racists.

jerney
10-08-2012, 10:35 AM
lol is this something Golden Dawn is proud of, or?

Flintlocke
10-08-2012, 12:05 PM
They're proud of it yes.

jerney
10-08-2012, 04:31 PM
I thought they were trying to claim they weren't 'racists' nowadays

Γέλως
10-08-2012, 05:23 PM
For example the Dorians. The red haired are cunning like the Alopekes(?)
...like the foxes.

Flintlocke
10-08-2012, 06:11 PM
I thought they were trying to claim they weren't 'racists' nowadays

Shee, dey not be rayciest dey be for white peeploz :p

Tabiti
10-08-2012, 06:53 PM
Ancient Hellenics hated everyone not of their origin, actually. The same goes for all the nations before the middle of 20th century...Just ask my grandma about the women from the near villages;)
And if I were you I wouldn't accept sources taken from similar organisations as reliable. No matter left, center or right, anyone messed in politics uses history as weapon, just like religion, statistics and economics.

Anusiya
10-09-2012, 05:14 AM
Ancient Hellenics hated everyone not of their origin, actually. The same goes for all the nations before the middle of 20th century...Just ask my grandma about the women from the near villages;)
And if I were you I wouldn't accept sources taken from similar organisations as reliable. No matter left, center or right, anyone messed in politics uses history as weapon, just like religion, statistics and economics.

The 20th century thing can go both ways you know.;)

And NO Ancient Hellenics didn't hate anyone not of their origin. That's a 5th century statement-moto, so what? This happens virtually everywhere when you get overcrowding and overpopulation.

Geminus
10-09-2012, 05:12 PM
Those who have dark eyes are cowards, like the rabbit, the deer, the sheep. Those who have light eyes are brave.

Well would that mean that the majority of modern Greeks are cowards? ;)
Interesting that he wrote that, did Ancient Greeks have considerably lighter eyes than today?

Absinthe
10-09-2012, 05:34 PM
Racism was the mainstream in the ancient world. Can you think of a single nation which was open and tolerant to their neighbours? Anyone who wasn't their own was considered an enemy.

Anusiya
10-10-2012, 07:45 AM
Racism was the mainstream in the ancient world. Can you think of a single nation which was open and tolerant to their neighbours? Anyone who wasn't their own was considered an enemy.

Of course there is some truth to it, but it's different for a mere 4-5 millions to interract in a vast region from having half a billionto do so. The Greeks at that time didn't exceed a million.

Where is the sun!? Are you joking! :D

ioan assen
10-12-2012, 05:51 PM
The Romans in the end of the empire were pretty open minded, they granted citizenship to all people within the empire.
Byzantuim, Bulgarian empire were not racist.

Absinthe
10-12-2012, 09:24 PM
Actually I have an acquaintance who is finishing his PhD and his thesis is "Racism in the Byzantium" and according to him Byzantium was very racist :p

Food
10-12-2012, 09:36 PM
How They imagined theirselves:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100916175827/ike/images/4/41/GogetaandVegitoAnimatedDiffer-1-.gif

How they really were:
http://api.ning.com/files/73lMT4zhjoAs8UxliasV6I0z9ztU1oJ0Ar08qMAkhjWsOd6wW1 SXMwx-Q7G2fX6rQt6yAKzz864u77N6dB7TSrUtF5fpskhG/lovers2.jpg

Siberian Cold Breeze
10-12-2012, 09:45 PM
Early signs of Greek-German conflict ?
The nations of the cold areas of Europe (the north) are full of fury but lower in intellect and art (inventiveness, technology, science) therefore they are free but uncivilized and cannot rule their fellow man.


The asiatic nations (easterners) are intelligent and technical but they lack the rage (are cowards) in their soul. Therefore they are enslaved and ruled by tyrants.
That must be Chinese ..
Anchient Greeks don't know us ?

MarceloBielsa
10-24-2012, 04:52 PM
Ancient Greeks in Sicily and Italy isn't racists, in Syracuse and other greek colonies lived Gomorroi (greek settler) and Killikirioi (indigenous sicels\italic people).
This twoo peoples coexisted in peace and eventually amalgamated with one culture, this culture was called Siceliot or Italiot in Calabria and Apulia.
Ancient Greeks was a great people, and nowadays modern greeks, sicilian, calabrians and apulians is a fantastic fraternal peoples.

Vesuvian Sky
10-24-2012, 05:19 PM
I heard that the eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) at times could be quite draconian. They suffered from quite a bit of revolts at times as I understand. I could see them perhaps as being racist as they were faced it seems w/ fiercer opposition during the time of their empire from many desert dwelling maruaders and eventually the central Asian steppe hoards. I can imagine this would have done much to enforce a racist mentality among the rulers who probably likened themselves as eastern defenders of Western (Rome or Roman) civilization.

Granted the western Roman Empire would have faced similar problems throughout its history but I often wondered how racist it would be. A few people here and there have told me that they felt it was racist but never gave anything concrete as an example why this would be. I always felt it wouldn't have been cause apparently one could be a type of semite and even rise to rank of Caesar, hence Philip the Arab.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_the_Arab

On the other hand, I think some historians contest he was of local semite extraction.

Xenomorph
10-27-2012, 08:32 PM
The big thing for Byzantines was religion, not race; Eastern Orthodoxy was quite possibly the biggest linchpin in Byzantine society. While the empire was Greek culturally at its core, even after its major territorial losses to the Muslims, it remained quite multicultural, with Slavs, Arabs, Armenians, Italians, Turks, Vlachs, and Vikings all within the borders of the empire and mostly tolerated. A number of the most famous Byzantine emperors were not of Greek origin.

Boiorix
10-28-2012, 01:38 AM
So what if they were racist? It's completely natural. Even dogs are ranked by race so why shouldn't human?

Panzerfaust
10-28-2012, 02:12 AM
At least the Spartans weren't racist. I mean, they did enslave other Greeks..

kabeiros
11-04-2012, 12:11 AM
Aristotle:
Those with blue and green eyes have a brave soul like the tiger, the lion, the eagle.
Well, even Aristotle wrote stupid things
http://leesbirdblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/tawny-eagle-by-africaddict.jpg
http://milaraki.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/mac-os-lion.png