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Crn Volk
10-10-2012, 12:15 AM
http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/21987/49/

Reasons why Macedonia can't have normal relations with Bulgaria
Tuesday, 09 October 2012

Although one can certainly come up with several fold more reasons why Skopje and Sofia have not been able to normalize their relations, here are ten that come to mind right from the start.



1. Macedonians at home spent majority of their WW2 fighting against Bulgarian soldiers. Macedonian partisans engaged the Germans mostly in major battles outside of Macedonia, in other parts of the then Yugoslavia.

2. In 1913 Macedonia was split in 3 parts (Vardar, Pirin, Aegean). Due to the split, the remains of one of the greatest Macedonian revolutionaries Goce Delcev (died 1903) found itself on the 'other' side, in present Bulgaria. Official Sofia in 1946 sent Delcev's remains to the rightful owners, the Government of Macedonia in Skopje. Today official Sofia claims him as "Bulgarian". Why give him up if he is your own, and equally important, why claim him 60 years later?



3. Bulgaria while protecting their Jewish minority, was responsible for rounding up and sending to concentration camps the Jewish population from Macedonia and Thrace (present Greece). Macedonia lost 98% of its Jewish population. All of the gold, art and jewelry was stolen by Bulgarian soldiers and sent to Sofia. Just a fortnight ago (October 7th), Jewish leaders from Israel told the Bulgarian Government in Sofia that "saving your own Jews but murdering others still makes you a murderer". There goes Sofia's hope that everyone has amnesia.

4. Official Bulgarian census in 1946 listed 252,908 Macedonians living in Bulgaria. Official census in 1956 somehow listed less, 187,789 ethnic Macedonians, concentrated in the Pirin region. In 2011, official Sofia counted 1,600 Macedonians! For the next census, Sofia will follow Athens and claim it has no minorities.

5. When visiting Bulgaria, in particularly major holiday destinations , one is able to view dozens of TV channels from all of Bulgaria's neighbors. The only channels missing (scrambled) are those from Macedonia.

6. Just like in Greece, Bulgaria too does not allow Macedonians to register a political party and take part in Parliament elections. The Macedonians have taken Bulgaria to Human Rights court in Strasbourg twice, won both times, but still cannot register their party.

7. Bulgaria first recognized Macedonia, at the same time did not recognize the language which automatically created tensions between the two countries.

8. Bulgaria wanted to help Macedonia during the Greek embargo and opened its port in Burgas to Macedonian companies. This nice gesture was conditioned - official Skopje must stop its communication with Macedonians in Bulgaria.

9. After 2000, Bulgaria decided to create a "minority" in Macedonia, Serbia, Moldavia (even Albania) by issuing passports and citizenships to Macedonians. According to Macedonians and Serbs who have received Bulgarian passports, the entire procedure was done in less than two months involving little to no documentation at all.

10. A typical court case of divorced parents seeking a custody of their daughter turned into a circus case because the mother (Spaska Mitrova) had recently received a Bulgarian passport. Mitrova's new passport meant the bombastic arrival of two dozen journalists from Sofia at a small court house in Gevgelija to cover the case and cheer on Spaska Mitrova.

ioan assen
10-10-2012, 12:29 PM
I can add alot more but the main is that the Macedonians do not study their real (shared with the Bulgarians) history and invent something else which deffinately is not history. I think from there the problems evolved: if they knew their history they ll know why there can never be "Macedonian minority" in Bulgaria.

Vojnik
10-10-2012, 01:06 PM
2. In 1913 Macedonia was split in 3 parts (Vardar, Pirin, Aegean). Due to the split, the remains of one of the greatest Macedonian revolutionaries Goce Delcev (died 1903) found itself on the 'other' side, in present Bulgaria. Official Sofia in 1946 sent Delcev's remains to the rightful owners, the Government of Macedonia in Skopje. Today official Sofia claims him as "Bulgarian". Why give him up if he is your own, and equally important, why claim him 60 years later?

Here is something.

After 1944, the Bulgarian policy on the Macedonian Question was changed under Bulgaria's new communist regime, which was committed to the Comintern policy of supporting the development of a distinct ethnic Macedonian consciousness. Communist Yugoslavia also began to implement the same policy. The region of Macedonia was proclaimed as the connecting link for the establishment of future Balkan Communist Federation. The newly established Yugoslav People's Republic of Macedonia, was characterized as natural result of Delchev's aspirations for autonomous Macedonia.

So by Bulgaria eventually becoming a communist state, they had to send Goce Delcev's remains to Skopje in some kind of symbolic gesture to show that Macedonians are a distinct ethnic group, and as it says above: "characterized as natural result of Delchev's aspirations for autonomous Macedonia".

Communism fucked everything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotse_Delchev

Goce Delcev was a Macedonian Bulgarian because he spoke and wrote in the standard Bulgarian language, associated himself with Bulgarians from Bulgaria proper, was the co-author of the BMARC statute which states that a member of the organisation cane be a Bulgarian regardless of gender and worked towards the establishment of a autonomous Macedonia with the goal of letter on uniting with the rest of Bulgaria.

Crn Volk
10-10-2012, 10:25 PM
Here is something.


So by Bulgaria eventually becoming a communist state, they had to send Goce Delcev's remains to Skopje in some kind of symbolic gesture to show that Macedonians are a distinct ethnic group, and as it says above: "characterized as natural result of Delchev's aspirations for autonomous Macedonia".

Communism fucked everything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotse_Delchev

Goce Delcev was a Macedonian Bulgarian because he spoke and wrote in the standard Bulgarian language, associated himself with Bulgarians from Bulgaria proper, was the co-author of the BMARC statute which states that a member of the organisation cane be a Bulgarian regardless of gender and worked towards the establishment of a autonomous Macedonia with the goal of letter on uniting with the rest of Bulgaria.

No, I would say the Bulgarian occupation of Macedonia in WW2 fucked everything. Macedonians welcomed the BG army with open arms, but when they started their harsh bulgarisation measures and started abusing the locals, and behaving like occupiers, rather than liberators, the Macedonians turned against them. Tito's offers seemed more appealing, and here we are today. The Bulgarians still continue with the same old shit. Move on bre lujgje...

morski
10-11-2012, 11:34 AM
No, I would say the Bulgarian occupation of Macedonia in WW2 fucked everything. Macedonians welcomed the BG army with open arms, but when they started their harsh bulgarisation measures and started abusing the locals, and behaving like occupiers, rather than liberators, the Macedonians turned against them. Tito's offers seemed more appealing, and here we are today. The Bulgarians still continue with the same old shit. Move on bre lujgje...

We'll move on when you stop falsifying our common history and cut the anti-Bulgarianism on all levels.

Bugarash 1893
10-12-2012, 01:22 AM
Until macedonism exists as the main ideology in Macedonia there will be no friendly hands being offered.

Many mistakes were done by the idiots that ran Bulgaria for the last 20 years.

Bulgaria first recognized Macedonia as a state,breaking the ice.

Helped them not to freezy to death during the greek embargo.

Gaved them tanks for the 2001 crisis,without which they would have probably thrown rocks at the albanians.

Not to mention the rest favors!

And still they bark,I have always said Bulgaria should have had an agressive policy towards Macedonia using every tool and every situation to destabilize it.

Crn Volk
10-12-2012, 02:14 AM
Until macedonism exists as the main ideology in Macedonia there will be no friendly hands being offered.

Many mistakes were done by the idiots that ran Bulgaria for the last 20 years.

Bulgaria first recognized Macedonia as a state,breaking the ice.

Helped them not to freezy to death during the greek embargo.

Gaved them tanks for the 2001 crisis,without which they would have probably thrown rocks at the albanians.

Not to mention the rest favors!

And still they bark,I have always said Bulgaria should have had an agressive policy towards Macedonia using every tool and every situation to destabilize it.

Go on, give us your best shot. You know full well that Macedonia would just join Serbia in a new union if the going got to ruff.

Bugarash 1893
10-12-2012, 02:24 AM
Go on, give us your best shot. You know full well that Macedonia would just join Serbia in a new union if the going got to ruff.

No it wouldnt.
They might be of a proserbian spirit but they wont be joining Serbia.

Btw,you are forgetting the albanian factor mate.
You think that if that hypothetically speaking happened...the albanians of Macedonia will agree to become part of some union with Serbia?

Crn Volk
10-12-2012, 02:30 AM
No it wouldnt.
They might be of a proserbian spirit but they wont be joining Serbia.

Btw,you are forgetting the albanian factor mate.
You think that if that hypothetically speaking happened...the albanians of Macedonia will agree to become part of some union with Serbia?

Yes, an all-out war between Slavs and Albanians will probably happen in the future. Which side will you be on?

Bugarash 1893
10-12-2012, 02:48 AM
Yes, an all-out war between Slavs and Albanians will probably happen in the future. Which side will you be on?

War:D
You are surounded by two albanian states and an 30% strong albanian minority within.

Surounded by a nation that has international support by the great powers and has a strong diaspora.

Albanians today are in all spheres of the state...from the judicary till the army-which wasnt the case in 2001.

So if there is war it will be a total war which will shake the state out of it's very foundations.

I think that these facts are enough for you to understand that you will get ganged banged if war happens...and besides,you will go in war with what?

sticks and stones?

Crn Volk
10-12-2012, 04:15 AM
War:D
You are surounded by two albanian states and an 30% strong albanian minority within.

Surounded by a nation that has international support by the great powers and has a strong diaspora.

Albanians today are in all spheres of the state...from the judicary till the army-which wasnt the case in 2001.

So if there is war it will be a total war which will shake the state out of it's very foundations.

I think that these facts are enough for you to understand that you will get ganged banged if war happens...and besides,you will go in war with what?

sticks and stones?

I said total war between Slavs and Albanians. Serbs are Slavs too, and I know how they love the shiptars.

Vojnik
10-12-2012, 04:33 AM
I said total war between Slavs and Albanians. Serbs are Slavs too, and I know how they love the shiptars.

Why would Serbs help us? we recognized Kosovo as an independent state and you expect Serbia to fight with Macedonia when Albanians want to occupy Tetovo? The only help that we would receive, if another civil war broke out, would be from Bulgaria, as they did in the past.

Crn Volk
10-12-2012, 05:38 AM
Why would Serbs help us? we recognized Kosovo as an independent state and you expect Serbia to fight with Macedonia when Albanians want to occupy Tetovo? The only help that we would receive, if another civil war broke out, would be from Bulgaria, as they did in the past.

Bulgaria would only take eastern and southern Macedonia and leave the rest to the shiptars.

In a total war, the Serbian army would be stationed in Macedonia and Montenegro, who both recognized Kosovo. The Macedonian army would work in coalition with the Serbian and Montenegrin armies. The aim would be to push back shiptars to the Albanian border. If Albania got involved, then it too would be a target. Bulgaria would sit back and watch, or join in with the shiptars against the Serbs and Macedonians, just like in WW2

Bugarash 1893
10-12-2012, 06:39 AM
I said total war between Slavs and Albanians. Serbs are Slavs too, and I know how they love the shiptars.

One more wrong step from the serbs and they are going under NATO occupation.

And dont be sure that the serbs can do alot about it.
The serbs now are a nation in a downfall.
They dont have the spirt nor the military might from the 90's...while the albanians are stronger than they were in the 90's.

Crn Volk
10-16-2012, 02:30 AM
One more wrong step from the serbs and they are going under NATO occupation.

And dont be sure that the serbs can do alot about it.
The serbs now are a nation in a downfall.
They dont have the spirt nor the military might from the 90's...while the albanians are stronger than they were in the 90's.

You're kidding right. Albania, with all it's 3 tanks will run over Belgrade? :picard1: