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Onur
10-13-2012, 11:09 PM
There is a great article about the 100th anniversary of the first Balkan wars in the Time magazine. Quite surprisingly, this article mentions about the horrible events caused by the relatively short but bloody Bulgarian invasion in eastern Thrace, Turkey where they literally mutilated every Turkish civilians they saw in there.

Turkish people finally kicked out the Bulgarian army after less than a year but all the Bulgarians of eastern Thrace also migrated out with them too because there was no way for us to live together anymore.


The Balkan Wars: 100 Years Later, a History of Violence
The Balkan wars, which began on Oct. 8, 1912, are considered minor footnotes in 20th century history. But they mean so much more.

http://timeglobalspin.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/001035.jpg
Soldiers remove the dead from the battlefield at Adrianople during the First Balkan War.

A century ago today, the Balkan wars began. On Oct. 8, 1912, the tiny Kingdom of Montenegro declared war on the weak Ottoman Empire, launching an invasion of Albania, then under nominal Turkish rule. Three other Balkan states in league with the Montenegrins — Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia — rapidly followed suit, waging war on the old imperial enemy while drawing upon a wellspring of national sentiment in each of their homelands. By March 1913, their blood-soaked campaigns had effectively pushed the enfeebled Ottomans out of Europe. Yet by July, Greece and Serbia would clash with Bulgaria in what’s known as the Second Balkan War — a bitter monthlong struggle that saw more territory change hands, more villages razed and more bodies dumped into the earth.

The peace that followed was no peace at all. A year later, with Europe’s great powers entwined in the fate of the Balkans, a Yugoslav nationalist in the Bosnian city of Sarajevo killed the crown prince of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Europe plunged into World War I.

“The Balkans,” goes one of the many witticisms attributed to Winston Churchill, “generates more history than it can locally consume.” To Churchill and many Western observers of his era, this rugged stretch of southeastern Europe was a headache, a geopolitical mess that had for centuries been at the crossroads of empires and religions, riven by ethnic tribalisms and the meddling of outside powers. Half a century earlier, Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismarck — the architect of the modern German state — expressed his disgust with this nuisance of a region, scoffing that the whole of the Balkans was “not worth the bones of one Pomeranian grenadier” in his employ.

But while these grand statesmen of the West saw a backward land brimming with ancient hatreds, the Balkans’ turbulent past, and the legacy of the Balkan wars in particular, perhaps offers a more instructive history lesson for our present than even World War I. This is not just because the Balkan wars spawned some historic firsts on the battlefield — such as the first instance when aircraft was used to attack an enemy (by the Bulgarians) or some of the first grim scenes of trench warfare in continental Europe (observers recount how, in one trench, the legs of dead Turkish soldiers froze into the ground and had to be hacked off). It’s because in many ways these battles fought a century ago reflect our world today: one where internecine and sectarian conflicts — in, say, Syria or the Democratic Republic of Congo — are enmeshed in the agendas of outside powers and where the trauma of that violence often augurs more of the same.

On the surface, the Balkan wars were opportunistic land grabs. The Ottoman Empire, at this point very much “the sick man of Europe,” had held sway over a vast swath of the region since the 15th century, but by the 19th century was a steadily hemorrhaging territory. Newly independent states in Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia — at times, egged on, at others, reined in by imperial powers like Russia, Austria-Hungary, Germany and the U.K., who were all jockeying for supremacy— were now possessed by their own fantasies of creating a Greater Serbia or Greater Bulgaria. The genie of ethnic nationalism was very much out of its bottle, and the Balkans were suffused with anti-Turkish, anti-Muslim feeling. See these popular lines of doggerel, penned by a mid-19th century Montenegrin prince:

So tear down minarets and mosques,

and the kindle the Serbian yule logs,

and let us paint our Easter eggs …

… our faiths will be submerged in blood.

The better of the two will be rise redeemed.

[Eid] can never live in peace

with Christmas Day.

And there was blood. The joint Balkan invasion of Turkish territory in Albania, Macedonia and Thrace, along the rim of the Aegean Sea, saw brutal, bitter fighting, miserable sieges and myriad atrocities committed on all sides. A Czech correspondent described the approach to Lozengrad, the Bulgarian name for what’s now Kirklareli, Turkey, as something out of Dante’s Inferno. “Only his dark genius could recreate all the horrors of the cold swamps out of which stick the twisted and mutilated bodies of the fallen,” he wrote in the Czech daily Pravo Lidu in October 1912. Another journalist entering the city of Adrianople (now Edirne, Turkey) when it was finally surrendered by the Ottomans to the Bulgarians in March 1913, recounted the utter desolation of the ancient town, then a “ghastly theater of blood”: “Everywhere bodies reduced to mere bones, blue hands ripped from forearms, the bizarre gestures, empty eye-sockets, open mouths as if calling in desperation, the shattered teeth behind the torn and blackened lips.”

The capture of Adrianople effectively brought what’s considered the First Balkan War to a close. A treaty brokered in London by Europe’s great powers ended hostilities by May, but would soon unravel when, in late June, territorial disputes led to the Greeks and Serbs turning on the Bulgarians — the biggest victors of the First Balkan War — and, even at times with the help of Turkish fighters, stripping the Bulgarians of much of the gains they had made in the earlier conflict. It was a huge source of national humiliation for the Bulgarians, who had mobilized 500,000 troops — a quarter of their entire male population — during the wars.

In all, over the course of the Balkan wars, some 200,000 soldiers died in less than a year with countless numbers of civilians massacred in raids on towns or laid low by starvation and disease. Grisly accounts followed one after the other of pogroms and ethnic cleansing in a dizzyingly complex, diverse part of the world that, for all the inefficiencies and injustices of Ottoman rule, had existed in relative multicultural harmony for centuries. A landmark report on the Balkan wars, issued in 1913 by the then brand new Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington, D.C., claimed that “there is no clause in international law applicable to land war and to the treatment of the wounded, which was not violated … by all the belligerents.” The Carnegie report went on to declaim “the megalomania of the national ideal” — the ugly, crude nationalism that fired the expansionist zeal of countries the world over. “Violence carries its own punishment with it and something very different from armed force will be needed to establish order and peace in the Balkans,” the report warns.

But that was a message, like many others made then by dovish liberals and peaceniks, that went unheeded. At a time when the great powers were steadily amassing arms and tying themselves into alliances primed for war, the smaller Balkan states could only end up pawns in a much bigger game of chess. Resurgent Serbian nationalism, backed by Russia, put the two ultimately at odds with Austria-Hungary, triggering World War I. “The Balkans were not the powder keg, as is so often believed: the metaphor is inaccurate,” writes journalist and Balkans historian Misha Glenny, in his book, The Balkans: Nationalism, War and the Great Powers, 1804-1999. “They were merely the powder trail that the great powers themselves had laid. The powder keg was Europe.”

What followed, of course, involved more bloodshed, more seismic upheavals, more redrawing of maps. Decades later, the Balkans tragically convulsed in another round of ethnic warfare following the collapse of the Soviet Union and the fall of Yugoslavia’s own communist state. As some commentators parroted Churchill and Bismarck’s dismay with the region, Mark Mazower, a noted scholar of Eastern Europe now at Columbia University, wrote in an essay how the fragile politics of a nation — not simply old ethnic enmities — can lead to the disintegration of once tolerant, integrated societies: “It has been war — first as a specter then as a reality — which affected people’s sense of ethnic identity.”

Prescient for its time, the 1913 Carnegie report opens with an impassioned appeal for peace and an end to the “monstrous business” of the arms race. Otherwise, the legacy of the Balkan wars was clear:
[It will be] only the beginning of other wars, or rather of a continuous war, the worst of all, a war of religion, of reprisals, of race, a war of one people against another, of man against man and brother against brother. It has become a competition, as to who can best dispossess and “denationalize” his neighbor.

Violence, as the report says, is its own punishment. And a century doesn’t seem so long ago.

Read more: http://world.time.com/2012/10/08/the-balkan-wars-100-years-later-a-history-of-violence/#ixzz29DtdXGVl


The comment from the international commitee for the Balkan wars in 1913 is so interesting;

Prescient for its time, the 1913 Carnegie report opens with an impassioned appeal for peace and an end to the “monstrous business” of the arms race. Otherwise, the legacy of the Balkan wars was clear:

[It will be] only the beginning of other wars, or rather of a continuous war, the worst of all, a war of religion, of reprisals, of race, a war of one people against another, of man against man and brother against brother. It has become a competition, as to who can best dispossess and “denationalize” his neighbor.

It looks like they predicted the future of Balkans in 1913 by saying that this was just a beginning of wars.

Anusiya
10-13-2012, 11:16 PM
Troubling times indeed.

Onur
10-13-2012, 11:30 PM
Troubling times indeed.
Yes it was.

The decisions of Ottoman authorities caused loss of lives of Turkish people back then. They were so stupid because Otto von Bismarck was so right about Balkans;

Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismarck — the architect of the modern German state — expressed his disgust with this nuisance of a region, scoffing that the whole of the Balkans was “not worth the bones of one Pomeranian grenadier” in his employ.

Balkans was not worth the bones of one Turkish soldier either but Ottoman authorities wasted 100.000s lives for it.

Incal
10-14-2012, 01:32 PM
Karma's a bitch.

Archduke
10-14-2012, 01:44 PM
Quite surprisingly, this article mentions about the horrible events caused by the relatively short but bloody Bulgarian invasion in eastern Thrace, Turkey where they literally mutilated every Turkish civilians they saw in there.

Ohh, ohhh, the poor innocent Turks...

Hevo
10-14-2012, 01:46 PM
Karma's a bitch.

Karma doesn't exist.

Incal
10-14-2012, 03:08 PM
Karma doesn't exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor

Bugarash 1893
10-14-2012, 09:10 PM
A history of violence thanks to the turks.

We still cant get over their leftovers,thats why we are in this situation.

Anusiya
10-14-2012, 10:00 PM
A history of violence thanks to the turks.

We still cant get over their leftovers,thats why we are in this situation.

The same thing happened wherever the Austro-Hungarians set foot on. Romania had longterm territorial problems and geopolitical ones too, Poland, Czechs, Yugos, you name it, it is there. Stupid empires come and go, good riddens but Turks where the victims too.

Onur
10-14-2012, 11:34 PM
Searched in US congress archive web site and found pictures like these from the Bulgarian siege of Edirne (Adrianople) in 1912.

Bulgarians hastily burying dead Turkish civilians and soldiers into mass graves;
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/50100/50154v.jpg
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/50100/50155v.jpg
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/11600/11699v.jpg
http://aykutalp.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/ayvaz-babada-bulgarlar.jpg


Executions of the civilians in Edirne;
http://i.sabah.com.tr/sb/galeri/yasam/balkan-savasindan-kan-donduran-kareler/acr2bc4_d.jpg
http://i.sabah.com.tr/sb/galeri/yasam/balkan-savasindan-kan-donduran-kareler/acr5f10_d.jpg
http://i.sabah.com.tr/sb/galeri/yasam/balkan-savasindan-kan-donduran-kareler/acr39d9_d.jpg

http://www.loc.gov/search/?q=balkan+wars&fa=online_format%3Aimage&sp=1&sb=Date

Onur
10-14-2012, 11:43 PM
The Balkan Wars (1912-1913) and the Carnegie Report

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57673

Xenomorph
10-14-2012, 11:48 PM
“The Balkans,” goes one of the many witticisms attributed to Winston Churchill, “generates more history than it can locally consume.”

How true.

Grizzly
10-15-2012, 12:01 AM
The mess in the Balkans is largely credited to the Turks but obviously Onur thinks it's the opposite.. Turks come in like savages, burn settlements, abduct and drain civilian populations, enforce religious & cultural practices, ban native customs & languages, etc, etc, etc.. But yet the Balkan nations are the crazy ones?

Vukodav
10-15-2012, 12:43 AM
The mess in the Balkans is largely credited to the Turks but obviously Onur thinks it's the opposite.. Turks come in like savages, burn settlements, abduct and drain civilian populations, enforce religious & cultural practices, ban native customs & languages, etc, etc, etc.. But yet the Balkan nations are the crazy ones?

according to Turks on these forums, Ottoman empire was utopia.
but we Balkanites as all savages wanted to live in uncivilized society, since (according to them) Ottomans civilized us with baklavas and tulumbas.

Bugarash 1893
10-15-2012, 12:47 AM
Executions of the civilians in Edirne;
http://i.sabah.com.tr/sb/galeri/yasam/balkan-savasindan-kan-donduran-kareler/acr2bc4_d.jpg
http://i.sabah.com.tr/sb/galeri/yasam/balkan-savasindan-kan-donduran-kareler/acr5f10_d.jpg
http://i.sabah.com.tr/sb/galeri/yasam/balkan-savasindan-kan-donduran-kareler/acr39d9_d.jpg

http://www.loc.gov/search/?q=balkan+wars&fa=online_format%3Aimage&sp=1&sb=Date

Civilians:D

Nice try...but it is pathetic trying to make a false presentation yeh know?

For example the last picture,in the bulgarian archives it's known as ''execution of war criminals''.

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic/1919.jpg

If they were civilians there would have been bulgarian massacres over the turkish population of Odrin...or in this case,pictures of scenes where many turks are being executed not one,two three.

Bulgarian soldier giving water to a wounded turkish soldier

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic/86.jpg

Bugarash 1893
10-15-2012, 01:09 AM
Camels being taken as spoils of war by bulgarian soldiers-found in the fortress of Edirne,which was the most guarded fortress in that time in Europe.

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic3/5252.jpg

Bugarash 1893
10-15-2012, 01:11 AM
Bulgarian troops crossing the Maritsa river,very near to Odrin

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic2/3157.jpg


Bulgarian royal cavalry enters Odrin

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic3/5011.jpg


Triumphal Arch built in Odrin-todays Edirne and dedicated to the liberation of the city by the bulgarian army

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic/860.jpg

Bugarash 1893
10-15-2012, 01:20 AM
Killed bulgarians in the Odrin campaign

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic/365.jpg

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic/506.jpg

Onur
10-15-2012, 11:01 AM
Bulgarian troops crossing the Maritsa river,very near to Odrin
...

Bulgarian royal cavalry enters Odrin
...

Triumphal Arch built in Odrin-todays Edirne and dedicated to the liberation of the city by the bulgarian army

...
Do you notice something? There is not even single civilian person in the streets of central places. You wonder why?



Killed bulgarians in the Odrin campaign

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic/365.jpg
This picture you have posted above is clearly photoshopped because the original copy of it is in the US library of congress. Here is the original copy with several defects and torn paper;

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/50100/50155v.jpg

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/ggb2005016729/

These dead people are massacred Turkish people in Edirne as it`s been clearly written on the picture in 1912. What is this website named lostbulgaria.com, photoshopping these pictures and falsely presenting as "dead bulgarians"?

Curse you and curse your state too for falsifying the truths.


Civilians:D

Nice try...but it is pathetic trying to make a false presentation yeh know?

For example the last picture,in the bulgarian archives it's known as ''execution of war criminals''.
Are these altered pictures from Bulgarian archives? Fcking assholes...

What war criminals in Edirne? They were innocent peoples defending their homeland against the invaders. Is this old person who were soon to be hanged by Bulgarian soldiers was a "war criminal"?;
http://i.sabah.com.tr/sb/galeri/yasam/balkan-savasindan-kan-donduran-kareler/acr5f10_d.jpg


And why you are posting these pictures here? Are you trying to promote your genocidal campaign and brutal invasion attempt to Turkey?

morski
10-15-2012, 11:11 AM
Do you notice something? There is not even single civilian person in the streets of central places. You wonder why?



This picture you have posted above is clearly photoshopped because the original copy of it is in the US library of congress. Here is the original copy with several defects and torn paper;


These dead people are massacred Turkish people in Edirne as it`s been clearly written on the picture in 1912. What is this website named lostbulgaria.com, photoshopping these pictures and falsely presenting as "dead bulgarians"?

Curse you and curse your state too for falsifying the truths.


Are these altered pictures from Bulgarian archives? Fcking assholes...

What war criminals in Edirne? They were innocent peoples defending their homeland against the invaders.

And why you are posting these pictures here? Are you trying to promote your genocidal campaign and brutal invasion attempt to Turkey?

Ever heard of several copies being produced from one negative?

War criminals:

rHPPtOQ0d3c

Onur
10-15-2012, 11:17 AM
Ever heard of several copies being produced from one negative?
No, the one from bulgarian archives are clearly from the copy in the US congress but altered laters. Some defects and the sentence below the picture has been cleared but notice the vertical line in the just right side of the center. This vertical line exists on both pictures. This proves that the original picture is from US congress but the one in Bulgarian archives are copied from that paper because it still contains some of the defects on it. Just look at the pictures;

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic/365.jpg
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/50100/50155v.jpg

So, these two pictures are not two different copies from same negative. Bulgarian one is a copy from the paper in US congress but later altered.

poiuytrewq0987
10-15-2012, 11:19 AM
What did Turkish occupation contribute to our civilization? I can only think of one thing (http://cache.virtualtourist.com/4/4584079-Sarena_Mosque_Tetovo.jpg), quite oddly! All our cultural and scientific advancements were halted during the Ottoman era thanks to their bloody massacre of our educated class. They subsequently reduced us to a burgeoning peasantry as per Islamic law to exploit jizya and apply devshirme. Turkish whining of a bunch of dead Turks is so hypocritical. If anything, Turks should be paying reparations, kissing our arses and apologizing for their crimes.

morski
10-15-2012, 11:20 AM
No, the one from bulgarian archives are clearly from the copy in the US congress but altered laters. Some defects and the sentence below the picture has been cleared but notice the vertical line in the just right side of the center. This vertical line exists on both pictures. This proves that the original picture is from US congress but the one in Bulgarian archives are copied from that paper because it still contains some of the defects on it. Just look at the pictures;

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic/365.jpg
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/50100/50155v.jpg

So, these two pictures are not two different copies from same negative. Bulgarian one is a copy from the paper in US congress but later altered.

Well, maybe you are right. It is just remastered so to say, though. Nothing else seems to have been altered, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.

poiuytrewq0987
10-15-2012, 11:31 AM
Bulgarian advance towards Constantinople was only halted because of German-built Ottoman battleships battering Bulgarian positions near the Catalca line. If the Germans hadn't been so generous to supply you with some finely built battleships then Catalca line surely would have fallen and Constaninople... or rather Tsarigrad would be Turk-free and in Bulgaria's hands today. ;)

Onur
10-15-2012, 11:32 AM
Well, maybe you are right. It is just remastered so to say, though. Nothing else seems to have been altered, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.
NOT "maybe", i am 100% right. It`s clear that the one in Bulgarian archives photoshopped and altered version of the original picture in the US congress archives.

The fuss here is the Bulgarian state falsifying the truths and using these lies to poison the minds of young ignorant Bulgarians like you.

poiuytrewq0987
10-15-2012, 11:35 AM
NOT "maybe", i am 100% right. It`s clear that the one in Bulgarian archives photoshopped and altered version of the original picture in the US congress archives.

The fuss here is the Bulgarian state falsifying the truths and using these lies to poison the minds of young ignorant Bulgarians like you.

Oh, why don't you enlighten all of us what fundamentals in the pictures were changed? I see absolutely nothing important changed except the improvement of the photo's quality. Go off with your conspiracy theories on someone else dumber.

Anusiya
10-15-2012, 12:10 PM
Bulgarian advance towards Constantinople was only halted because of German-built Ottoman battleships battering Bulgarian positions near the Catalca line. If the Germans hadn't been so generous to supply you with some finely built battleships then Catalca line surely would have fallen and Constaninople... or rather Tsarigrad would be Turk-free and in Bulgaria's hands today. ;)

Tsarigrad = Constantinople. I've seen that too, alas! :picard1:

Onur
10-15-2012, 12:32 PM
Tsarigrad = Constantinople. I've seen that too, alas! :picard1:
Yes, i noticed that too but i couldn't even think about what to say for this (!!!)

Tsarigrad :picard2:

I am sure Khan Asparukh is turning upside down in his grave. He created a country later to be occupied with these bunch of fools.

morski
10-15-2012, 12:36 PM
Yes, i noticed that too but i couldn't even think about what to say for this (!!!)

Tsarigrad :picard2:

I am sure Khan Asparukh is turning upside down in his grave. He created a country later to be occupied with these bunch of fools.

We've been calling it that way long before you came along so spare us the butthurt.:rolleyes:

Anusiya
10-15-2012, 12:41 PM
We've been calling it that way long before you came along so spare us the butthurt.:rolleyes:

:lol00002::laugh2::clap2: :icon_cheesygrin: :icon_lol::lol00002::lol00002:...oh well :ranger:

morski
10-15-2012, 12:45 PM
:lol00002::laugh2::clap2: :icon_cheesygrin: :icon_lol::lol00002::lol00002:...oh well :ranger:

What's so funny?

Vojnik
10-15-2012, 12:59 PM
At least our languages, culture and religions were preserved during the Ottoman rule. I wish I could say the same about the Greek occupation over Aegean Macedonia.

Anyway, the Balkan wars were terrible. We managed to kick the Ottomans out, but only to commit worse atrocities onto ourselves later on. The people who went into battle together, ended up killing each other over land grabs and materialistic shit.

So in reality, the worst time in Balkan history was the period not long after the expulsion of the Ottoman Turks.

Anusiya
10-15-2012, 01:10 PM
At least our languages, culture and religions were preserved during the Ottoman rule. I wish I could say the same about the Greek occupation over Aegean Macedonia.

Anyway, the Balkan wars were terrible. We managed to kick the Ottomans out, but only to commit worse atrocities onto ourselves later on. The people who went into battle together, ended up killing each other over land grabs and materialistic shit.

Says someone who calls a place "Aegean Macedonia" :rolleyes:

Vojnik
10-15-2012, 01:13 PM
Says someone who calls a place "Aegean Macedonia" :rolleyes:

I use it to let the reader know of which region I am referring to. What do you expect me to call it? greek macedonia? no way!

Archduke
10-15-2012, 01:21 PM
Thanks Onur, you inspired me to make new thread. :coffee:

Onur
10-15-2012, 02:01 PM
Thanks Onur, you inspired me to make new thread. :coffee:
By using the falsified materials and lies from your state? as i have proved in this thread?

OK, go ahead...

morski
10-15-2012, 02:08 PM
By using the falsified materials and lies from your state? as i have proved in this thread?

OK, go ahead...

I'm sorry but I'll have to disappoint you, mate. That picture was taken from the collection of Georg Woltz, the court photographer of Tsar Ferdinand. In it he has captured the burying of the dead near Odrin. Nothing falsified.

Bugarash 1893
10-15-2012, 04:52 PM
Do you notice something? There is not even single civilian person in the streets of central places. You wonder why?

You can see civilians on some of the pictures...


And why you are posting these pictures here? Are you trying to promote your genocidal campaign and brutal invasion attempt to Turkey?

The campaign was to ''liberate the slave''-that was the motto

Liberate our brothers that were still suffering under the turkish slavery.

Bugarash 1893
10-15-2012, 04:55 PM
Bulgarian advance towards Constantinople was only halted because of German-built Ottoman battleships battering Bulgarian positions near the Catalca line. If the Germans hadn't been so generous to supply you with some finely built battleships then Catalca line surely would have fallen and Constaninople... or rather Tsarigrad would be Turk-free and in Bulgaria's hands today. ;)

Trying to take Constantinople was the the biggest mistake.

If we didint lose the time on the Catalga front we would have entered Solun/Thesslaoniki before the greeks and liberate all of Aegean and Vardar Macedonia before the greeks and serbs.