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Aragorn
12-01-2008, 10:02 PM
Ethnic group seeks autonomy in Ukraine

It is deceptively quiet in Zakarpatye, the most western region of Ukraine. The government is waiting to see if the Rusyns, an ethnic group which originates from the area, will declare independence from Ukraine. Although it would remain a part of Ukraine, legally it would be under completely new jurisdiction.

On October 25 the Second World Rusyn Congress declared it will seek the creation of an autonomous Rusyn state. A government for the future republic was also elected. The heads of world Rusyns put forward an ultimatum: the Ukrainian government could acknowledge the autonomy legally or if it doesn’t, the Rusyn separatists will put into effect the deed which declares the recreation of the Rusyn autonomy as it was set up in 1938. The separatists’ leaders say they do not need Kiev’s support to do so.

"We are not separatists, we are trying to achieve the status of a republic within Ukraine, it is our duty to our ancestors," the Rusyns' spiritual leader, Dmitriy Sidor, said during the congress.

Speaking to ITAR TASS on December 1, Sidor pointed out that the Rusyn government is set up and ready to begin its activities. He also noted that declaring independence is fully within the new government's jurisdiction. However, the priest pointed out that he cannot release the names of the new cabinet as this could create legal problems for its members.

The "Rusyn separatists" as they are officially called in Ukraine, claim they are actively persecuted. A case has been filed against them, as their calls to change the borders and the entity of the Ukrainian state has been deemed unconstitutional. Dmitriy Sidor said in his interview that he himself is often subject to police attention. Allegedly, he has to undergo interrogations practically every other day.

Sidor, however, doesn't see anything unconstitutional or controversial in his demands. He points out that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, 78% of Zakarpatye's population voted in favour of remaining within Ukraine, on condition that it is granted the status of a special autonomous republic. This, according to Sidor, would restore historical justice, as it would recreate the situation prior to World War II.

Meanwhile, the Ukrainian National Academy of Science issued a statement on November 5, announcing that Rusyns do not exist as an independent ethnicity. According to the study, ethnographically and linguistically, they do not differ from Ukrainians sufficiently to be classified as a separate entity. Some conspiracy theories in Ukraine even suggest that the Rusyn independence movement was restarted from Moscow in the 1980s.

Anna Skripnik, the president of the International Association of Ukrainians says that the term "Rusyn" is in fact a common name that Ukrainians have given themselves since the 10th century. However, the Zakarpatye region was distant from other parts of Ukraine economically, culturally and politically, so the term remained in use longer. According to Skripnik, calls for independence are simply attempts to stir up regional tension within Ukraine's brittle political climate. Rusyns, she says, are no different from Ukrainians either ethnically or historically.

However, the separatist feeling within Zakarpatye has been the cause of many problems for some Ukrainian politicians. The Ukrainian Svoboda Party has filed several complaints against the Rusyns.

"Today the separatists from Zakarpatye, led by a priest from the Moscow patriarchy, put forward an ultimatum to the Ukrainian government. Tomorrow they could arm themselves with Russian passports and money from the Kremlin and re-enact the "Georgian scenario" in Ukraine," the party's statement read.

http://www.russiatoday.com/features/news/34083

TheGreatest
12-24-2008, 07:12 AM
It is deceptively quiet in Zakarpatye, the most western region of Ukraine. The government is waiting to see if the Rusyns, an ethnic group which originates from the area, will declare independence from Ukraine. Although it would remain a part of Ukraine, legally it would be under completely new jurisdiction.

I'm a Quarter Rusyn and I'm glad to see this development. The Russians and Ukrainians did everything possible to stamp out our dialect, religion and culture.




"We are not separatists, we are trying to achieve the status of a republic within Ukraine, it is our duty to our ancestors," the Rusyns' spiritual leader, Dmitriy Sidor, said during the congress.

Though I believe most Rusyns would want a separate republic. But reality being, it's not wise to taunt the Ukrainian Government, whom is in possession of the Third (or fourth?) largest standing army.





Meanwhile, the Ukrainian National Academy of Science issued a statement on November 5, announcing that Rusyns do not exist as an independent ethnicity. According to the study, ethnographically and linguistically, they do not differ from Ukrainians sufficiently to be classified as a separate entity. Some conspiracy theories in Ukraine even suggest that the Rusyn independence movement was restarted from Moscow in the 1980s.

Anna Skripnik, the president of the International Association of Ukrainians says that the term "Rusyn" is in fact a common name that Ukrainians have given themselves since the 10th century. However, the Zakarpatye region was distant from other parts of Ukraine economically, culturally and politically, so the term remained in use longer. According to Skripnik, calls for independence are simply attempts to stir up regional tension within Ukraine's brittle political climate. Rusyns, she says, are no different from Ukrainians either ethnically or historically.

However, the separatist feeling within Zakarpatye has been the cause of many problems for some Ukrainian politicians. The Ukrainian Svoboda Party has filed several complaints against the Rusyns.

"Today the separatists from Zakarpatye, led by a priest from the Moscow patriarchy, put forward an ultimatum to the Ukrainian government. Tomorrow they could arm themselves with Russian passports and money from the Kremlin and re-enact the "Georgian scenario" in Ukraine," the party's statement read.

Someone help me contain my laughter. :D


It's a good theory and a nice propaganda piece, nevermind that Rusyns are strictly anti-PanSlav and Russophobic. We are Western Slavs, we don't want to join Russia, why the hell would we? It was the Russians who converted our people to Orthodoxy, bastardized our language and brainwashed millions under the Soviet Union to adopt the Ukrainian identity. :mad:

Stegura
12-27-2008, 08:26 AM
I'm also a quarter Ruthenian. :)

Here's a map of Carpatho-Rusyn lands.

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/9679/magocsieq7.png

Many Rusyns immigrated to Western Pennslyvania during the late 19th and early 20th centuries for work in the Steel Mills.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/57/The_Deer_Hunter_poster.jpg

"The Deer Hunter" was a good Vietnam War movie which focused on the lives of Rusyn-American steel workers in western Pennslyvania! "The Deer Hunter" recieved an Oscar for Picture of the Year back in 1978. I really enjoyed the wedding scene. You can find Byzantine Catholic churches like that all over Southwestern Pennslyvania.

Stegura
12-28-2008, 07:28 AM
We are Western Slavs, we don't want to join Russia, why the hell would we?

Agreed, Ruthenians have much more in common with Central Europe, Catholicism, and the Austo-Hungarian Hapsburg Monarchy then they will ever have in common with Eastern Europe, Orthodoxy, the Romanovs, and the Judeo-Bolsheviks.

Ruthenia should become independent. If that does not work, Ruthenia could become a part of Slovakia or Hungary. Carpatho-Ruysns would benefit much better under Slovak or Magyar rule then they would under Ukrainian or Russian rule.


It was the Russians who converted our people to Orthodoxy, bastardized our language and brainwashed millions under the Soviet Union to adopt the Ukrainian identity. :mad:

I'm also 1/2 Hungarian. The Russians screwed over the Hungarians as well. Before WW2, Carpatho-Ukraine now (Zakarpattia Oblast) was 1/4 Hungarian and the capitol city Uzgorod had a Hungarian majority. With the Red Army approaching in Fall 1944, tens of thousands of Hungarians fled. Thousands of those who stayed were deported to Siberia and forced to work in slave labor camps or the U.S.S.R. :mad:

TheGreatest
12-28-2008, 07:55 AM
Agreed, Ruthenians have much more in common with Central Europe, Catholicism, and the Austo-Hungarian Hapsburg Monarchy then they will ever have in common with Eastern Europe, Orthodoxy, the Romanovs, and the Judeo-Bolsheviks.



That is because Ruthenia is in Central Europe. We were not a ''distant Mongol land'', as Westerners had thought of the various Russian Fief states in the Medieval Period.


Ruthenia had never been a part of the Russian Empire; this is a fact that surprises a lot of Americans. We had our own independent kingdom till the 1300's, and then administrated by the Poles, Austrians and Hungarians for almost 800 years.
Polish Administration came first and it was quite awful, the reason for the bad blood that exists to this day. Hapsburg leadership was quite good in comparison. We had been recognized as a distinct people; not quite like the ones in Slovakia, but neither like the foreign Russians or the Kyviv Rus Slavs.
Ruthenia was one of the crown lands of the Hapsburg Empire and remained the least rebellious state, not so much a peep during the year of revolution, other than among the rowdy Poles (who were quickly and rightfully put down).






Ruthenia should become independent. If that does not work, Ruthenia could become a part of Slovakia or Hungary. Carpatho-Ruysns would benefit much better under Slovak or Magyar rule then they would under Ukrainian or Russian rule.

I'm also 1/2 Hungarian. The Russians screwed over the Hungarians as well. Before WW2, Carpatho-Ukraine now (Zakarpattia Oblast) was 1/4 Hungarian and the capitol city Uzgorod had a Hungarian majority. With the Red Army approaching in Fall 1944, tens of thousands of Hungarians fled. Thousand of those who stayed were deported to Siberia and forced to work in slave labor camps or the U.S.S.R. :mad:


I wouldn't mind seeing the Hapsburg Empire reborn but that's a little impossible. :D
Slovak and Hungary would be good. Hungary and Slovakia to this day, still recognizes Rusyn as a distinct people, in terms of language, culture and identity.
A lot of ethnic Rusyn have Hungarian and German blood. There were also 200,000 Germans (Southern German; mainly Swabians and Austrians) who settled the region as rural agriculturalists. 200,000 people was quite a lot, given that the region's entire population was no more than 2 million. Most of these agricultural settlers had migrated to North America before the end of the century, my family being one of them.

Aragorn
12-29-2008, 10:14 AM
But how realistic is a Ruthenian secession?

First, I dont think Ukrainian government will allowing it to happen, as it might encourage the millions of ethnic Russians to call for secession aswell.

Secondly, we know how hyprocite the EU is concerning the right on self-determination in Europe.

TheGreatest
12-29-2008, 10:26 AM
But how realistic is a Ruthenian secession?


I believe secession would be considered an illegal act. However, the situation in the Ukraine is peculiar enough for secession to work. For example, if Ruthenia separates, than the Eastern Ukraine might as well, leading to a political crisis which paralyzes the armed forces.




First, I dont think Ukrainian government will allowing it to happen, as it might encourage the millions of ethnic Russians to call for secession aswell.

Ethnic Russians and Rossiyanes make up the majority of Ukraine's population.



Secondly, we know how hyprocite the EU is concerning the right on self-determination in Europe.

Sometimes I think that the EU just wants everyone to become ''European Citizens'', like the kind back in the Soviet Union ''Rossiyane'' (Citizen of the Soviet Union).
Though the EU is going to take it up a notch and import tens of millions of Africans.