Ladder Theory

[Loki]

http://www.laddertheory.com/ladderconstruction.htm

http://www.laddertheory.com/images/mansladder1.jpg

So it should be self-evident, if you are following this at all, that the people you want to have sex with the most will be at the top of the ladder. Descending down to the bottom of the ladder we pass the following people:

1. The people we really want, who may even be out of our league, are on top.
2. Then come the people we like.
3. Moving further down we pass the people who we would fuck if we were intoxicated and would admit to doing it later.
4. At the bottom are the people we would fuck drunk, and would lie about doing it later.

Clinging to the bottom are the girls that are wolf ugly. These are women so ugly you would chew your own arm off to get away rather than fuck them. Usually fake teeth, or the loss of several hundred pounds can move a woman up from wolf ugly.

Now let's take a look at what the typical woman's ladder looks like:

http://www.laddertheory.com/images/womansladder1.jpg

The first thing to notice here is that a woman has not one ,but two ladders. This is because in addition the normal ladder, a woman also has a friends ladder. The friends ladder is where a woman puts guys that she considers "just friends". More to the point where she puts guys who don't get to have sex with her.

The problem arises because a woman never lets a guy know which ladder he is on. Obviously there is a huge difference, or gap between these two ladders. It is in this gap that kisses of death are delivered and intellectual whores are made. All a man can do is "go for it" and make a move on a girl; ask her out, try to kiss her, write her a love note or whatever. If he's on the good ladder fine. If he is on the friends ladder this is a case of ladder jumping. The man is trying to jump the gap from the friends ladder to the real ladder. The girl has two choices at this point: she can let him on the ladder and all is well, or, more likely, she can kick him in the head, and off the ladder. If you look you'll see that below the ladder is the Abyss(what was it Nietzsche said about a man being on a rope stretched over an Abyss?....well it's worse than he thought; there is no rope.) So the man falls into the Abyss. The Abyss isn't really as bad as it sounds. Mostly it's a period of self-loathing, embarrassment, and of course utter awkwardness with the girl in question if they are talking at all.

To fully illustrate the point I'll now examine some common scenarios and their ladder theory explanations. For purposes of these examples Tom will be our boy and Jane will be out girl.

Scenario 1: Tom meets Jane. She's pretty and seems interesting to talk to. Tom and Jane start haging out and talking more and more. Tom develops an attraction to Jane, and one day tries to kiss her. Jane tell Tom she doesn't think of him that way and she wants to remain friends. The next few weeks contact between the two falls off. Jane starts fucking an outlaw biker.

Ladder Theory Explanation: Tom met Jane. Tom was immediately placed on the friends ladder. Tom didn't know this. Tom tried to jump ladders. Jane kicked Tom in the head rather than let him on and sent him hurtling to the Abyss below. The oulaw biker was not on her friends ladder (they never are) but rather on her good ladder.

Scenario 2: Tom meets Jane. She's cute and seems smart. After an appropriate amount of time he asks her out on a date. She acccepts and they have what seems to be a perfectly nice date. Tom thinks he has a chance with Jane. He asks her out again. She says no, either explicitly or by never returning his phone call. Tom has no idea what the Hell just happened. Jane starts fucking an unemployed alcoholic.

Ladder Theory Explanation: Jane misrepresented which ladder Tom was on. He thought he was on the good ladder because of her acceptance of the date. Mistake. This led to an unintentional ladder jump. He was kicked into the Abyss. In this situation, Jane often wants to stay friends becasue you are so interesting and funny or some shit like that. If this happens you are most likely an Intellectual Whore. I'm sorry. This is most likely to be a ninja-bitch.

Scenario 3: A girl says any of the following to you:
• "You're like a brother to me"
• "You're like a big teddy bear".
• "I feel like I can talk to you about anything"
• "You're so nice"
• "Can you help me with my homework"

Ladder Theory Explanation: You are on the friends ladder. So Sorry.

You can see that a lot of problems can be avoided(though sadly not problem two) by declaring as soon as possible to a girl that you will not be friends under any circumstances. You can explain that she is too attractive or you can be blunt and say you don't want to bend your "friends" over a table and fuck them, but would rather play poker and go to the races with them, thus disqualifying her from friendship. As long as you are clear. This may scare a girl away. But if it does what would you want with such a skittish little twit anyway?.

[Loki]

IF A MAN FINDS YOU ATTRACTIVE YOU CANNOT BE FRIENDS

Many women want to argue this point and say things like " I have lots of guy friends." Maybe. There are exactly 3 cases Intellectual Whores has identified whereby a guy and a girl can be friends:

1. The guy is gay
2. The guy does not find you attractive
3. The guy already has a woman much higher than you on the ladder

Even Nietzsche knew this. Most guys know this intuitively. Most girls doubt. I have a challenge for all of you girls who still doubt. Pick a guy who does not meet any of the criterion on the above list that you think is your friend. Then ask yourself this question: If you were both alone at his place one night, and you excused yourself to the bathroom and came out naked and asked him to have sex with you would he:

1. Tell you he doesn't want to risk the beautiful friendship you have created with messy physical entanglements.

2. Comply.

Remember
...this only works if you are honest with yourself. Number one is of course something that guys hear all the time. Intellectual Whores refers to it as the Kiss of Death. It is more likely that he will jump you eagerly.

[Su]

Where is Mary if we need her opinion? :laugh:

[Su]

EDITED: Wisdom not opinion :D

[Mary]

You rang? :D Yes, all of this is true.

[Incel King]

love is power,
love is force,
if you don't have cash,
you'll never have a girlfriend,
it's for sure off course.

One sweet poem by: Jack Atlas!

[Kazimiera]

The ladder is true.

[Su]

Yeah, the ladder makes sense actually.

Mary, you were right :D Did you create the ladder or go the info through internet?

[Mary]

Yeah, the ladder makes sense actually.

Mary, you were right :D Did you create the ladder or go the info through internet?

I didn't create it. Props goes to the person that runs the website.

[Scarlet Ibis]

Scenario 3: A girl says any of the following to you:
• "You're like a brother to me"
• "You're like a big teddy bear".
• "I feel like I can talk to you about anything"
• "You're so nice"
• "Can you help me with my homework"

Ladder Theory Explanation: You are on the friends ladder. So Sorry.


This one isn't always true.... :D;)

[Mraz]

I had a flash...Is it possible that Loki is Mary's husband?

[Kazimiera]

This one isn't always true.... :D;)

"Can you help me with my homework?" is heavily loaded. She might have other intentions than just homework.

[Kazimiera]

I had a flash...Is it possible that Loki is Mary's husband?

We've seen Loki and we've seen Mary's husband. They are definitely two different people.

[Mraz]

"Can you help me with my homework?" is heavily loaded. She might have other intentions than just homework.

"Oh sure lets go to my room so nobody will bother us" :D
"She said : what is this??"
"And I said : my Pokemon collection :cool:

[Kazimiera]

"Oh sure lets go to my room so nobody will bother us" :D
"She said : what is this??"
"And I said : my Pokemon collection :cool:

"And she said: can I poke you??":eyes

[Loki]

Girls have a guy friend ladder (and yeah, she will consciously deceive the guy that he has chances, until he insists .. then she will get nasty with him) because:

1) Unlike men, women need emotional support too. And she likes to have lots of men around. But she can only be in love with one man at a time ... that is true.

2) Girls don't trust each other for friendship. See here:

PfW8deSlsiA

[Mraz]

"And she said: can I poke you??":eyes

And I said : I hear nothing I put my Darth Vader mask. :p

[Kazimiera]

I'm not entirely sure what happened between me and my husband though. He was on the friends ladder. He was DEFINITELY on the friends ladder. He must have jumped ladders without me noticing.

[Loki]

I'm not entirely sure what happened between me and my husband though. He was on the friends ladder. He was DEFINITELY on the friends ladder. He must have jumped ladders without me noticing.

Sneaky guy, respect :D

[Celxon]

IF A MAN FINDS YOU ATTRACTIVE YOU CANNOT BE FRIENDS

Many women want to argue this point and say things like " I have lots of guy friends." Maybe. There are exactly 3 cases Intellectual Whores has identified whereby a guy and a girl can be friends:

1. The guy is gay
2. The guy does not find you attractive
3. The guy already has a woman much higher than you on the ladder

Even Nietzsche knew this. Most guys know this intuitively. Most girls doubt. I have a challenge for all of you girls who still doubt. Pick a guy who does not meet any of the criterion on the above list that you think is your friend. Then ask yourself this question: If you were both alone at his place one night, and you excused yourself to the bathroom and came out naked and asked him to have sex with you would he:

1. Tell you he doesn't want to risk the beautiful friendship you have created with messy physical entanglements.

2. Comply.

Remember
...this only works if you are honest with yourself. Number one is of course something that guys hear all the time. Intellectual Whores refers to it as the Kiss of Death. It is more likely that he will jump you eagerly.

You will be held responsible for spreading "He's Just Not That Into You" paranoia among single girls who read your post. ;) I pretty much agree about certain aspects of the dreaded friend zone, though. Just hope and pray that your wife never puts you there. By the way, on a serious note, if a guy has a mood disorder, he should be exempted from the eternal horn dog rule.

[Amud]

I've seen this before. It's a useful heuristic and teaching tool for understanding the basics of sociosexual theory, but obviously it's a gross simplification of what goes in a woman's head, and there will always be exceptions to every rule. The more you try to distill human behavior into concrete, mathematical statements, the less accurate your model will be. I certainly like it, though. Recommended reading for any clueless, omega male.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Women need to be told what ladder you go on, not asked.

Regardless of a woman's intellect, when it comes to guys she acts more like a single celled amoeba. Monkey see, monkey do is the most common thing of course. I have an extremely hot friend I hang around with a lot. If I show up somewhere with her, suddenly I am hard to resist, a very captivating fellow. Alone, I am a probable murderer who girls shrink back from.

Mostly it's like Chris Rock put it. If you ask a girl to suck your balls, you are gonna have some dry balls. If you tell her to do it and apply gentle pressure (aka half nelson) you are gonna get your balls sucked.

That's it for women. The instant assessment thing is bullshit, they are easily led to the proper conclusion. Just look at the genetic trainwrecks half the hot girls are dating, do you really think they are the better man? Hardly, but swarthoid peasant types toot their own horn all day long and eventually will manage to find girls gullible enough to believe it, while the superior intelligence men sit there wondering if megan likes him or not they have verbally assaulted 8 women.

[jake]

Women need to be told what ladder you go on, not asked.

Regardless of a woman's intellect, when it comes to guys she acts more like a single celled amoeba. Monkey see, monkey do is the most common thing of course. I have an extremely hot friend I hang around with a lot. If I show up somewhere with her, suddenly I am hard to resist, a very captivating fellow. Alone, I am a probable murderer who girls shrink back from.

Mostly it's like Chris Rock put it. If you ask a girl to suck your balls, you are gonna have some dry balls. If you tell her to do it and apply gentle pressure (aka half nelson) you are gonna get your balls sucked.

That's it for women. The instant assessment thing is bullshit, they are easily led to the proper conclusion. Just look at the genetic trainwrecks half the hot girls are dating, do you really think they are the better man? Hardly, but swarthoid peasant types toot their own horn all day long and eventually will manage to find girls gullible enough to believe it, while the superior intelligence men sit there wondering if megan likes him or not they have verbally assaulted 8 women.



There is a lot of truth to this but you have to remember that there are a lot of women in the world. Even a lot of pretty women in the world. Just because all the girls at a bar end up fucking and mating with low humans doesn't mean anything really. Why do you think they are at a bar in the first place? They aren't meant to have good trait kids thanks to their fate of being low IQ. Just means less future good trait people in world which makes it better for you and your kids in future

[Harley]

Meh.

I notice I can only surround myself with people I actually like when it comes to friends. I wanted to say I don't have a two ladder system, but I do. It's more like 1) main ladder/everyone I like and 2) second ladder/wtf ru? I will not be friends with someone I do not like or find interesting.

Usually, everyone starts on the main ladder. I immediately toss guys to the other ladder if they are only concerned with what's happening to them in the now, with no concept or consideration of the future. Stupid actions coupled with stupid words is definitely one way to become forgettable.

The second thing that gets them tossed is the inability to be straightforward. I'm not a mind reader. Problems are best solved in a timely manner when both parties are willing to communicate and are committed to finding a solution instead of tearing the other person down.

I believe a good man is one that always has control over self but has mercy for his loved ones.

Brotherzone is a funny concept to me. This is where my Oppa love comes in. A man cannot be my Oppa unless I trust and value his opinions more than my own unquestioningly. Brotherzone to me means a brother-in-arms type of deal. Every day feels like another battle in a war. I'd prefer to be with someone that I can turn my back on and know I'd be okay with.

I would say I feel like I'm too old to be playing games, but it's more like I'm just tired of games, subconsciously or not. I either like you or I don't, which means you either exist or you don't. There is no friend ladder and only a man of good character can be brotherzoned. The other type of brotherzone that is mainstream is disrespect towards brotherhood, or just family/ soul relations in general.

Idk, society seems good at creating these weird trancelations with seemingly innocuous words. The coined term "brotherzone" is one such instance. They cause issues that shouldn't be issues and keep engaging superficial thinking and ways of life. :-/

[Mädel Edelweiß]

This is only true for attractive women. Which I am not, so I have never experienced having male friends. Men want nothing to do with me. Sure, there are outliers. Men “hit me up” for sex, which I always decline (because I like to think I have some semblance of self respect, and casual sex also does not appeal to me)

[HectorOfTroy]

Imagine sitting in your basement typing up the OP.

[CrazyDaisy]

The first thing to notice here is that a woman has not one ,but two ladders. This is because in addition the normal ladder, a woman also has a friends ladder. The friends ladder is where a woman puts guys that she considers "just friends". More to the point where she puts guys who don't get to have sex with her.

The problem arises because a woman never lets a guy know which ladder he is on. Obviously there is a huge difference, or gap between these two ladders. It is in this gap that kisses of death are delivered and intellectual whores are made. All a man can do is "go for it" and make a move on a girl; ask her out, try to kiss her, write her a love note or whatever. If he's on the good ladder fine. If he is on the friends ladder this is a case of ladder jumping. The man is trying to jump the gap from the friends ladder to the real ladder. The girl has two choices at this point: she can let him on the ladder and all is well, or, more likely, she can kick him in the head, and off the ladder. If you look you'll see that below the ladder is the Abyss(what was it Nietzsche said about a man being on a rope stretched over an Abyss?....well it's worse than he thought; there is no rope.) So the man falls into the Abyss. The Abyss isn't really as bad as it sounds. Mostly it's a period of self-loathing, embarrassment, and of course utter awkwardness with the girl in question if they are talking at all.


I’m usually very clear about only wanting to be friends with a guy early on, they just choose to hear what they want to hear.

[Sacrificed Ram]

This thread:
http://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m42v15uDjA1rw30hro1_500.gif

[Mingle]

Many guys can start out as friends and then become partners. So the ladder isn't entirely accurate. There should probably be something merging the two ladders together at their halfway points.

[arkas]

I don't believe in this at all, so many of the couples I know in real life started off as friends and including my own ex gf. It depends though, there are some people who have no opposite gender friends, I suppose this ladder was designed by a guy like that.

This is ladder makes more sense for hooking up, it doesn't really correlate to actual serious relationships.

[Ylla]

IF A MAN FINDS YOU ATTRACTIVE YOU CANNOT BE FRIENDS

Many women want to argue this point and say things like " I have lots of guy friends." Maybe. There are exactly 3 cases Intellectual Whores has identified whereby a guy and a girl can be friends:

1. The guy is gay
2. The guy does not find you attractive
3. The guy already has a woman much higher than you on the ladder

Even Nietzsche knew this. Most guys know this intuitively. Most girls doubt. I have a challenge for all of you girls who still doubt. Pick a guy who does not meet any of the criterion on the above list that you think is your friend. Then ask yourself this question: If you were both alone at his place one night, and you excused yourself to the bathroom and came out naked and asked him to have sex with you would he:

1. Tell you he doesn't want to risk the beautiful friendship you have created with messy physical entanglements.

2. Comply.

Remember
...this only works if you are honest with yourself. Number one is of course something that guys hear all the time. Intellectual Whores refers to it as the Kiss of Death. It is more likely that he will jump you eagerly.
You can if he respects you and u make it clear that ur not interested.

[Bobby Martnen]

You can if he respects you and u make it clear that ur not interested.

I completely agree with this. Back when I was in middle school, a dirtbag found out who I liked and told her. She was willing to remain friends, but I fucked up the friendship (and most of my friendships, for that matter, I was a little shit back then) by acting like a complete jackass, and being an irritating little prick to pretty much everyone.

Long story short: people who are attracted to each other can remain friends IF THEY ARE BOTH MATURE AND WILLING TO BE ADULTS

[SneedsFeedNSeed]

A friend is someone you can call Resident Fatso and he will laugh.
Women will break down and have an existential crisis. (Which makes it funnier)
I will never understand guys who try to chip away at the Shawshank of friendship, thinking they'll make it. I would never invest years of my life for a woman's "maybe". I don't negotiate with terrorists.

[Celestia]

lol this was an interesting read and a lot of it is true.
Back when I was dating I pretty much instantly knew if there would be sexual chemistry or not.
I feel like a lot of men miss clear and obvious signs. If she asks for advice on another dude that should be a clear indicator she isn't interested in anything more.

[SneedsFeedNSeed]

lol this was an interesting read and a lot of it is true.
Back when I was dating I pretty much instantly knew if there would be sexual chemistry or not.
I feel like a lot of men miss clear and obvious signs. If she asks for advice on another dude that should be a clear indicator she isn't interested in anything more.
Some do that to get information about what the guy they talk to likes. But womens' signalling is so broken.
I think there's not one unambiguous sign that a woman is interested, all of them can be interpreted in either way.

I hate it when guys grovel, makes me wanna go drive around in a car with a megaphone saying "SHE DOESN'T LIKE YOU. SHE DOES NOT LIKE YOU. SHE LIKES ME."

[Celestia]

Some do that to get information about what the guy they talk to likes. But womens' signalling is so broken.
I think there's not one unambiguous sign that a woman is interested, all of them can be interpreted in either way.

I hate it when guys grovel, makes me wanna go drive around in a car with a megaphone saying "SHE DOESN'T LIKE YOU. SHE DOES NOT LIKE YOU. SHE LIKES ME."

Yeah I suppose you’re right. I’m pretty straightforward with my wants and feelings, but there are women who test the waters and play games to find out info.

[JamesBond007]

blasé ...jaded...blasé...indifferent

I slept with so many women as an atheist (phase I went through) I don't care about them anymore.

Here is an experiment : take a kind of liquor you enjoy and drink to the point of almost alcohol poisoning and throw up and dry heave for hours. Guess what ?! blasé ! You no longer probably like that liquor anymore.

I feel like I have a mission in life and women are distractions.

[Loki]

lol this was an interesting read and a lot of it is true.
Back when I was dating I pretty much instantly knew if there would be sexual chemistry or not.
I feel like a lot of men miss clear and obvious signs. If she asks for advice on another dude that should be a clear indicator she isn't interested in anything more.

Many of them don't miss the signs, but are unwilling to accept it... to their own detriment. Or they pretend not to notice, in the hope of changing your mind.

[Richmondbread]

lol this was an interesting read and a lot of it is true.
Back when I was dating I pretty much instantly knew if there would be sexual chemistry or not.
I feel like a lot of men miss clear and obvious signs. If she asks for advice on another dude that should be a clear indicator she isn't interested in anything more.I feel our chemistry is off the charts

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[lei.talk]

https://youtu.be/P8a9T1jKo0M