Which country makes the best wine?

[rashka]

I love Spanish wine. It has a nice earthy flavor.

[mysticism]

Romanian wine is nice, I like Montenegrin red wine - Vranac.

But the title must go to the French.

[Damião de Góis]

I'm not a wine drinker, but if i wouldn't switch Moscatel, Vinho Verde or Vinho do Porto for any foreign wine.

[Atlantic Islander]

I'm not a wine drinker

Blasphemy :p

[Mark]

California (u.s.) holds it's own these days.

[Caismeachd]

USA Sonoma county. After that probably France. I've only had port wines from Spain or Portugal and that's not my style. Italy is good with sparkling/carbonated wine.

[Comte Arnau]

Iberia makes the best wine. France comes second. Italy third.

[Atlantic Islander]

California (u.s.) holds it's own these days.

Yes that's true, it's partially due to the Portuguese that settled in the valley.

[Anglojew]

It depends on the grape variety. I'd say most reds are still best from France. It depends on your palate though as it's what you're used to eg New world people tend to prefer smoother less complexity and therefore their own wine over Old world wines and vice versa.

Savignon Blancs from New Zealand are amazing. You need that on the list.

Recently some Australian wines have won the best wine in the world awards;

AN Australian stable has again been named among the winners at a prestigious international wine-making competition.
During a ceremony in London on Tuesday night Neil McGuigan was named "world's best white wine maker" by judges of the International Wine Challenge, edging out two French labels for the trophy.

It is wonderful for the Australian wine industry to win this award," Mr McGuigan said.

"This award demonstrates that Australian wine remains world-class, and is a force to be reckoned (with)."

A collection of McGuigan chardonnay, riesling and semillon took out five gold medals during the competition, delivering the top white wine prize to the Australian producer.

McGuigan won the same award in 2009



Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/aussie-named-world-best-white-wine-maker/story-e6frfkui-1226472376912#ixzz2BmnwP972

and;

The Ramunno family's Witchmount Estate is now recognised internationally for its shiraz, the 2004 vintage being named the top shiraz in the world in the Syrah du Monde wine competition held in France.

I think a case could be made that Australia and France are the two best wine producers today. Moldovan wine is surprisingly good sometimes and little known.

[rashka]

It depends on the grape variety. I'd say most reds are still best from France.

I agree French is very good too.

[Mark]

Quote > I think a case could be made that Australia and France are the two best wine producers today. Moldovan wine is surprisingly good sometimes and little known. >

I've been drinking this: http://www.yellowtailwine.com/sauvignon-blanc/
I'ts a nice, dry Aussie Wine.

[Anglojew]

Yellowtail is a big export wine and not a bad drop but not so popular in Australia. It's a little like fosters beer, not bad but not popular here.

Try anything from Penfolds. Southern Italian whites are awesome from memory.

[Kazimiera]

South Africa!!!

[Mark]

South Africa!!!
you biased?

[Kazimiera]

you biased?

Absolutely. I don't even drink wine! :D

[Madonna]

Chilean wine !!!

[ficuscarica]

The French. And I am glad that Baden in this regard is the extension of French vine culture into Germany, based on our climate and soils that are similar to central France our main wines are Pinots, especially Pinot Noir. Our wine is not internationally famous though, because there is a strong local demand, which makes it unnecessary to export.

[Comte Arnau]

A nice map. Spain has the most vineyards in the world (2011). Here you can see the different areas, grape varieties and if they're red, white, sparkling or dessert wines.

http://www.paladarytomar.com/wp-content/gallery/vinos-de-espana/map-of-spain-wine-regions-big1.png

[Arianiti]

French

[Vasconcelos]

I'm glad most people don't know our wines, prices would sky rocket almost immediately.

[kabeiros]

Kabeiros house blend, it's da best :thumb001:

[Laubach]

French wine, of course!

[Peyrol]

Yes that's true, it's partially due to the Portuguese that settled in the valley.

False. First wine pioneers in California were teo ligurian brothers, from Santa Margherita (Genova province), in 1850.

Anyway, i'll go with France + Ligurian wines.

[Archduke]

The fertile land of Thrace produce the best grapes.

Ancient Thracians were famous for their wine.

[Vasconcelos]

This is stupid, people are just voting for their own.




Fuck you.
Yes, ALL of you.


Fuck.

You.

[Peyrol]

This is stupid, people are just voting for their own.




Fuck you.
Yes, ALL of you.


Fuck.

You.


Don't worry, it's the typical balkan way-of-doing that is infecting all the board :laugh:

[Roy]

Polish one


http://www.praguepost.com/pictures/1-20120201-11944-8171-pic.jpg


Prepared in my region (Lower Silesia) from Miękinia. But I can't testify whether it is good.



Responding to a question: Chilean are the best, especially sweet/semi-sweet Cabernet Chauvignon from Chile

[Comte Arnau]

This is stupid, people are just voting for their own.




Fuck you.
Yes, ALL of you.


Fuck.

You.

:D

Iberian wine is getting more and more known, but it's mostly connaisseurs who get the good one. The French know how to sell well, they put some beautiful presentation even to the mediocre ones and that's all.

I've seen Don Simon bricks sold in Scandinavia as Spanish wine, lol. Here teens use it to mix it with the Coke.

[Dacul]

Where is Moldavia and Romania in your poll?
Moldavia wine is best,for my tastes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_wine

[Damião de Góis]

This is stupid, people are just voting for their own.


This forum used to be an haven for nationalists from Europe. I don't know if that is still true, but a big percentage of members are still nationalists. That being said, this kind of questions or questions like "where do the most beautiful women come from" will always have the outcome you mentioned. I find it perfectly normal :p

[Peyrol]

No offence to anyone but i sincerely think that outside your countries no-one know polish, bulgarian or moldo-romanian wines...:lol:

French wines instead have international prominence.

[Vasconcelos]

Most people here seem unable to be unbiased. Why do I even bother checking these threads..

[Comte Arnau]

Most people here seem unable to be unbiased. Why do I even bother checking these threads..

Well, I don't have any problems to recognize that champagne is better than cava. When it's a good champagne, that is.

[Vasconcelos]

Well, I don't have any problems to recognize that champagne is better than cava. When it's a good champagne, that is.

Oh I'm not talking about you, this was mostly aimed at everyone on this forum, most polls seem to be worthless popularity contests.

[Dacul]

No offence to anyone but i sincerely think that outside your countries no-one know polish, bulgarian or moldo-romanian wines...:lol:

French wines instead have international prominence.
What do I care about Italian and French wines,no one buys these in Romania.
Neither Spanish wine.
Moldavia sells most wine in Russia.
Romania sells most of the wine in Germany.

[Graus]

I didnt bother to read past best but will answer Germany anyway. Chances are its correct.

[Peyrol]

What do I care about Italian and French wines,no one buys these in Romania.
Neither Spanish wine.
Moldavia sells most wine in Russia.
Romania sells most of the wine in Germany.

That's totally irrilevant, since thousands of millions of people around the world buy french, iberian, italian and californian wines.

[Malesor89]

I'm not trying to jump on the bandwagon, but the French make some of the best wine in the world.

[Sunphq]

English wine:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Chapel_Down_Flint_Dry_2008.jpg/300px-Chapel_Down_Flint_Dry_2008.jpg

[inactive_member]

Bordeaux Blends
Rhône Blend of Syrah and Viogner (5%) which is white variety creating an interesting flavour.
Pinot Noir from NZ.

Australian Cabernet Sauvingon from Coonawarra.
Chilean red wines.
New Zealand Sauvingon Blanc from Marlborough region. It's crisp and refreshing that does not cost a fortune.

Georgian wines are popular in our part of the world. Many of their wines are semi-sweet not fully matured.

There should have been more countries in the poll with multiple choice option.

[Roy]

Are there any proffesional wineries in Belarus, Rugevit? (I doubt in it as already in Eastern/Northern Poland there is way too cold for it ... but summers seem to more and more sunny and warm) :)

[inactive_member]

Are there any proffesional wineries in Belarus, Rugevit? (I doubt in it as already in Eastern/Northern Poland there is way too cold for it ... but summers seem to more and more sunny and warm) :)

There are now wineries in Belarus. The climate is not suitable to grow grapes in Belarus. Wines are imported. :)

[Roy]

Interesting :)

[inactive_member]

Interesting :)

Maybe white grape varieties can be grown in southern Belarus suitable for winemaking. It's not worth the hassle. There is no wine drinking culture as there is in southern European countries if that's what you wanted to know. :)

[rhiannon]

California produces my favorite wines:thumb001:

[Jackson]

Australia and California.

[Atlantic Islander]

I only like Sweet (http://wine.lovetoknow.com/wiki/List_of_Sweet_Red_Wines) Red. (http://wine.about.com/od/fortifiedwines/a/Port.htm)

[Mark]

California produces my favorite wines:thumb001:
I like Napa and Sonoma wines too.

[Vasconcelos]

I only like Sweet Red (http://wine.lovetoknow.com/wiki/List_of_Sweet_Red_Wines).

Don't you live verde?

[Atlantic Islander]

Don't you live verde?

I like Port. My avô likes Vinho Verde, and my avó likes Verdelho. :P

[billErobreren]

France hands down! I do enjoy Spanish & Chilean wine too. In this country: I'll go with California

[Szegedist]

In 1703, Francis Rákóczi II, Prince of Transylvania, gave King Louis XIV of France some Tokaji wine from his Tokaj estate as a gift. The Tokaji wine was served at the French Royal court at Versailles, where it became known as Tokay. Delighted with the precious beverage, Louis XV of France offered a glass of Tokaji to Madame de Pompadour, referring to it as "Vinum Regum, Rex Vinorum" ("Wine of Kings, King of Wines"). This famous line is used to this day in the marketing of Tokaji wines.


Emperor Franz Josef (who was also King of Hungary) had a tradition of sending Queen Victoria Tokaji Aszú wine, as a gift, every year on her birthday, one bottle for every month she had lived, twelve for each year. On her eighty-first and final birthday (1900), this totaled an impressive 972 bottles.

Tokaji wine has received accolades from numerous great writers and composers including Beethoven, Liszt, Schubert, Goethe, Heinrich Heine, Friedrich von Schiller, Bram Stoker, Johann Strauss II, and Voltaire. The composer Joseph Haydn's favorite wine was Tokaji. Besides Louis XIV, several other European monarchs are known to have been keen consumers of the wine. Louis XV and Frederick the Great tried to outdo one another when they treated guests such as Voltaire with Tokaji.

Napoleon III, the last Emperor of the French, ordered 30–40 barrels of Tokaji at the French Royal Court every year. Pope Pius IV. (1499–1565) at the Council of Trient in 1562, exclaimed: Summum pontificem talia vina decent! (This is the type of wine that should be on the papal table). Gustav III, King of Sweden, loved Tokaji - it has been said he never had any other wine to drink.

In Russia, customers included Peter the Great and Empress Elizabeth of Russia. A newspaper account of the 1933 wedding of Polish president Ignacy Mościcki notes that toasts were made with 250-year-old wines, and goes on to say "The wine, if good, could only have been Essence of Tokay, and the centuries-old friendship between Poland and Hungary would seem to support this conclusion."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokaji#Famous_consumers_of_Tokaji

:coffee:

[Grumpy Cat]

Spain, South Africa, and Chile IMO. USA not bad, either, same with Australia.

Yeah, I hate wine from my own country. Often too sweet.

[Permafrost]

This. As far as I'm concerned, noone can rival it

http://jancek-doo.com/index.3.jpg

[Ouistreham]

I voted for Spain.
Not that I am unconditionnally crazy about anything Spanish, but they had only one vote, which doesn't do justice to their production.


Iberia makes the best wine.
It makes sense. If you add Portugal to Spain, it makes a probably unmatched variety of quality products (including specialties that don't exist anywhere else on planet Earth, including Portwine and Sherry for instance.

That being said, I'm not a dedicated wine drinker. I appreciate a sip of white wine with sea foods, and IMHO only French wine can fit _ from cheap Muscadet to Alsatian Gewurtztraminer or Burgundian Châblis.

[d3cimat3d]

Probably Georgia where wine originated from. Second is Moldova.

[Smaug]

I'm not a wine drinker, but if i wouldn't switch Moscatel, Vinho Verde or Vinho do Porto for any foreign wine.

You are not really Portuguese, you are a shame to the Empire... :picard1:

[Grumpy Cat]

France makes great wine as well. But my favorite French wines run on the expensive side here.

My favourite wines at the moment are Two Oceans Savignon Blanc (South Africa) and Jackson-Triggs Cabernet Savignon (Canada).

[Vesuvian Sky]

I actually enjoy whine from the Tikvish region of Macedonia and Georgia (the Georgian sweet whines).

Also, there are very good French-American whines from Napa Valley.

[Germanicus]

It is a proven fact that France makes the best wine, the soil is superior.

[Damião de Góis]

You are not really Portuguese, you are a shame to the Empire... :picard1:

Yes, Count Arnau has called me before on that :)

(i also don't like sardines)

[Slycooper]

I don't always drink wine, but when I do it's french wine....

[Dombra]

France imo but I actually like cheap Australian wine a lot

[Sisak]

Croatia, but people doesnt know that because of bad promotion. In Croatia every every fifth family has vineyard.

[Atlantic Islander]

(i also don't like sardines)

:puppy_dp:

[Pontios]

Ummm... Where is Greece???? :mad:

A country that is full of grapes and wine is not listed...

[Damião de Góis]

:puppy_dp:

I grew up in a coastal town and always had plenty of fish to choose from. I always had the choice between sardines and something else and i always prefered mackerel which was usually served together with sardines. When i was little i didn't like the amount of spines it had and the taste was not as good as mackerel in my opinion. :p

[Jackson]

I grew up in a coastal town and always had plenty of fish to choose from. I always had the choice between sardines and something else and i always prefered mackerel which was usually served together with sardines. When i was little i didn't like the amount of spines it had and the taste was not as good as mackerel in my opinion. :p

The spines are some of the best bits of the sardine, i used to love crunching on them as a kid!

[Damião de Góis]

The spines are some of the best bits of the sardine, i used to love crunching on them as a kid!

lol! I think they would be a bit indigestive?

[HispaniaSagrada]

Iberia makes the best wine.

And ham!

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Hungary-Tokay melted gold in glass

http://i.imgur.com/bEam2je.jpg

[YeshAtid]

Hungary-Tokay melted gold in glass

http://i.imgur.com/bEam2je.jpg

it's so beautiful

[HispaniaSagrada]

When I was fibe years old we moved into a new house. I'd hang out while the men would work and move things in. All there was was a) water b) wine

I wanted Coca-Cola and just to spite the fact there was none I chose wine instead of water.

My cousin gave me some and I drank and drank and drank.

That night I barfed all over my bed.

I never touched wine again.

Lasagna also made me sick when I was little and I didn't eat it again for 20 years.

I also don't eat sardines.

I'm not crazy about boiled bacalhau.

I don't drive fast.

[lI]

There are now wineries in Belarus. The climate is not suitable to grow grapes in Belarus. Wines are imported. :)
Interesting. Lithuania is even colder and yet wine is more popular there than in some of the more Southern parts of East Europe:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Wine_consumption_world_map.png

There are two traditional wineries (Alita (http://www.alita.lt/en/) in South Lithuania & Anykščių vynas (http://www.anvynas.lt/en/) in North LT): the first specializes in cheaper sparkling wines - no idea what they're made from, the second company dates back to the first independence and makes various types of wine from local fruits (apples, chokeberries, black currant, cherries).

There's also an annual festival for artisan wine-makers (Pieniu Vyno Svente) with a competition for various categories (best gooseberry wine, best raspberry wine, best dandelion wine, etc.).

[Diërker]

italia.

[RussiaPrussia]

southern russia or georgia

[Baluarte]

After 3 mins of thinking I still can't decide between Italian and French, so let's just go with Italy since I like the people more, and therefore the producers have a higher chance of being nicer :thumb001:

[Baluarte]

xD Leliana and "I don't drink wine"

[ALSh]

I love Spanish wine. It has a nice earthy flavor.

Why isn't serbia in the list :rolleyes2:

[askra]

Everyone is choosing wines from their homelands so for me the best wine is Cannonau, not only is good but it is the wine with the highest concentration of polyphenols, antioxidants that reduce the risk of tumors and cardiovascular diseases, and it was discovered be one of main factors for reach a high longevity.

http://www.winetwo.net/profiles/blogs/drink-cannonau-wine-and-live-past-100

http://www.drinkhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Cannonau-di-Sardegna-Riserva-bottle.jpg

[Maximum Speed]

I prefer sardinian wine

[Temujin]

I had Château Lamothe de Haux , Bordeaux style with some Camembert. Easy day for me.

[Lusos]

Portuguese Wine Is unknown for most of the foreigners.
And only Italy as more Grape vaiety them Portugal.
For fortified Wines theres no match against Portuguese Wines.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ckafOscDPYg

[Daco Celtic]

How is Australia on this list but America isn't? Ever heard of Napa Valley?

[Erronkari]

Portugal, Spain, Italy, France and Greece.
All of them in equal.

[Arsen_]

I am not a fan of wine (I prefer vodka), but I know that in Armenia there is a huge selection of wines, and not only grape wine but also many other varieties: Pomegranate wine, Quince wine, Plum wine, Blackberry wine, Cherry wine, Raspberry wine, etc.

[Kyp]

Italy & France

[Wolfdog]

I have voted for "Portuguese".
I am fond of fortified wines and "Portwine" is my favourite out of competition.

[Melki]

What a question...

According to the most discerning gourmets (and well-off members of society), French wine is purely and simply the world number one.

Besides, the largest museum dedicated to wine is located in Bordeaux.


I am not a fan of wine (I prefer vodka), but I know that in Armenia there is a huge selection of wines, and not only grape wine but also many other varieties: Pomegranate wine, Quince wine, Plum wine, Blackberry wine, Cherry wine, Raspberry wine, etc.

You dare to call that wine, I call it a blasphemy :picard2:

[Arsen_]

You dare to call that wine, I call it a blasphemy :picard2:

Well as I said I am not a fan of wine and I drink only homemade red wine that my wife and mother-in-law make. :)

By the way I remember that in Soviet times, wine was mainly produced in neighboring Georgia, while in Armenia the emphasis was placed on the production of strong alcoholic drinks such as brandy.

In Armenia, it is mostly women drink wine, men prefer stronger drinks. :)

[Daco Celtic]

None of the above. Moldova and California

[Melki]

None of the above. Moldova and California

American wine in general and Californian wine in particular are excellent and I don't understand why they are absent from the poll...(like the finest German wines)

...but Moldovan wine ??? four bucks for its most expensive bottles...

C'mon maaaan :crazy:

[Chris596]

Republic of Moldova in my opinion. The taste and the flavor is amazing.

(yes, I drink alcohol, just not too much)

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Republic of Moldova in my opinion. The taste and the flavor is amazing.

(yes, I drink alcohol, just not too much)

You honorary Moldovan now, grab a cușmă and dance the sârbă

[WeirdLookingFellow]

American wine in general and Californian wine in particular are excellent and I don't understand why they are absent from the poll...(like the finest German wines)

...but Moldovan wine ??? four bucks for its most expensive bottles...

C'mon maaaan :crazy:

We sell grapes grown on the most fertile soil in the world for less than 25 cents a kilo.

[Chris596]

You honorary Moldovan now, grab a cușmă and dance the sârbă

I would love to visit Moldova once :D I've never been there but my father was. Around 2000 or something.

[catgeorge]

Australian wines from the Barossa Valley, especially Grant Burge label. I have drank wine all over and I find this the best.

[Ion Basescul]

I don't see us and Georgia on the list :rolleyes:

[Melki]

We sell grapes grown on the most fertile soil in the world for less than 25 cents a kilo.

And AutoVAZ in Tolyatti makes 1000 Lada for the price of a single Ferrari. Amazing, isn't it? :rolleyes:




(yes, I drink alcohol, just not too much)

Enjoying a glass of great wine is not just about...drinking alcohol :mad:

[WeirdLookingFellow]

And AutoVAZ in Tolyatti makes 1000 Lada for the price of a single Ferrari. Amazing, isn't it? :rolleyes:



Enjoying a glass of great wine is not just about...drinking alcohol :mad:

I'm sorry, I didn't know you caress your grapes with diamonds and turn the soil with golden ploughs. You probably think we water our vines with Chernobyl water, smh.

[Melki]

I'm sorry, I didn't know you caress your grapes with diamonds and turn the soil with golden ploughs. You probably think we water our vines with Chernobyl water, smh.

Then how do you explain that Moldovan wines are not praised by wine experts in the same way that they do with wines from France, Tuscany, California?

There must be a good reason, don't you think?

[akva]

I don't see us and Georgia on the list :rolleyes:

My vote for these countries

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Then how do you explain that Moldovan wines are not praised by wine experts in the same way that they do with wines from France, Tuscany, California?

There must be a good reason, don't you think?

But they are praised.

http://wineofmoldova.com/news/wine-of-moldova-wins-new-awards-in-international-competitions/

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/moldova-turns-its-wines-into-gold-becoming-the-most-awarded-eastern-european-country-at-mundus-vini-international-wine-competition-301037764.html

https://wine-and-spirits.md/en/the-number-of-medals-in-2018-for-moldovan-wines-was-counted-a-new-record/

[Finnish Swede]

Alcohol is very expensive here (selling prices incl. heavy taxes). So normal people here will drink bit lower class wines vs some other countries in Europe ... meaning with same sum of money per bottle .... we get worse wines.

But among of reasonable priced red wines exactly here (keeping also minds our pretty limited choices in shop ... ALKO has monopol position) I have found Portuguese red wines pretty good.

[Melki]

But they are praised.

http://wineofmoldova.com/news/wine-of-moldova-wins-new-awards-in-international-competitions/

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/moldova-turns-its-wines-into-gold-becoming-the-most-awarded-eastern-european-country-at-mundus-vini-international-wine-competition-301037764.html

https://wine-and-spirits.md/en/the-number-of-medals-in-2018-for-moldovan-wines-was-counted-a-new-record/

And so? Celtic FC is champion of the Scottish League. It doesn't necessarily mean they have a chance to win the Champion's League in a near future.

[Melki]

Alcohol is very expensive here (selling prices incl. heavy taxes). So normal people here will drink bit lower class wines vs some other countries in Europe ... meaning with same sum of money per bottle .... we get worse wines.

But among of reasonable priced red wines exactly here (keeping also minds our pretty limited choices in shop ... ALKO has monopol position) I have found Portuguese red wines pretty good.

Portuguese and Chilean wines are usually the cheapest
wines available at the Scandinavian vinmonopol stores.

[Daco Celtic]

American wine in general and Californian wine in particular are excellent and I don't understand why they are absent from the poll...(like the finest German wines)

...but Moldovan wine ??? four bucks for its most expensive bottles...

C'mon maaaan :crazy:

Like my grandpappy used to say "Don't sleep on Moldovan wine"

[Melki]

Like my grandpappy used to say "Don't sleep on Moldovan wine"

Which means?

[Daco Celtic]

Which means?

don't sleep on (someone or something)

meaning: Don't fail to appreciate or ignore the significance of someone or something. ... They may be underdogs, but don't sleep on them in these playoffs.

[Finnish Swede]

Portuguese and Chilean wines are usually the cheapest available wines in the Scandinavian vinmonopol stores.

Chilean for sure (and those are quite popular among of cheap wines). I still think they all tasted (what we have) pretty similar.

But there are few ''bad'' qualities available from some other well known wine countries as well.

[Ülev]

Europe's most northern vineyard (Item in Dutch/Norwegian on Dutch TV (https://nos.nl/video/2337951-wijn-uit-noorwegen-we-hebben-hier-30-procent-meer-daglicht-dan-in-frankrijk.html)) along the Sognefjord and various landscapes.

https://img.gfx.no/2039/2039607/vindruer_pa_slinde.980x655.jpg

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5dbae1069d83c0292a3622ca/1572532504412-5Q8QDX6I5AT5Q0LXQVLE/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kPG2PYunyJcMm5IaDDyRjSJ7gQa3H7 8H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLf rh8O1z5QHyNOqBUUEtDDsRWrJLTmD3GJgI7_jN764QbmlaUTk-jwKY9ThN-LXKsZSloYSBRlQqTgJhR4qOwiPx1erW1i/Oversikt+mark+1.jpg

https://en.sognefjord.no/imageresizer/?image=%2Fdbimgs%2FSystrond-motell-og-camping-7_gallery-image-Leikanger.jpg&action=Background_Overlay

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/Travel/2020/February/norway.jpg

[Mortimer]

Alcohol is very expensive here (selling prices incl. heavy taxes). So normal people here will drink bit lower class wines vs some other countries in Europe ... meaning with same sum of money per bottle .... we get worse wines.

But among of reasonable priced red wines exactly here (keeping also minds our pretty limited choices in shop ... ALKO has monopol position) I have found Portuguese red wines pretty good.

FinnishSwede I would drink a bottle of red wine with you and have deep conversations

[Finnish Swede]

FinnishSwede I would drink a bottle of red wine with you and have deep conversations

I would not. I avoid gypsies.

Plus I do not use alcohol much.

And lastly: I have read about wine scandals of Austria (1980's?). People there mixed diethylene glycol to wines to make those taste better...

[Ülev]

in Poland ---> Zielona Góra Wine Fest

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zielona_G%C3%B3ra_Wine_Fest


https://youtu.be/Www6z6wmKNU

[Mortimer]

I would not. I avoid gypsies.

Plus I do not drink alcohol much.

And lastly: I have read about wine scandals of Austria (1980's?). People there mixed diethylene glycol to wines to make those taste better...

I think you are not really honest if you say you would not talk to me because gypsies I think you are not that racist also this is not a date I would believe though that you would not date gypsies though

[Benyzero]

I don't like wine. Italy, France, and not last in the row Hungary also produce quality wines.

[Tacitus]

Italy and the southern cone countries (Chile/Uruguay/Argentina).

[Finnish Swede]

I think you are not really honest if you say you would not talk to me because gypsies I think you are not that racist also this is not a date I would believe though that you would not date gypsies though

Morty, we have gypsies here! I know your people! I'm not like Nittonia (American; was in my friend list), who might just have heard term gypsy first (and last) time in TA.

Secondly the fact that I might not use (at least always) as bad language with you as Blondie, Stearsolina, Balkan members, Spaniards, Romanians etc. only tells that I see no benefits on that. But if you push me too far ... you will note that. I started one thread against you (earlier), did not I? I will do same/another if ever needed. If you think I'm victim type of person, you are badly mistaken.

Lastly what comes to me ... as I said ... many people have misread me. Why? Because I'm very outspoken person with very strong opinions and because people are stuck on their own believes/visions (a'la: as writing that ways she needs to be this or that). I have been called here: Nordistic, Feminist, Racist, Leftiest, Nazi, Environmental terrorist, Right wing, etc. Nice full circle of opposite determinations. My ''heart'' might not be as poisonous as some might think (yes, you're right one that). How it could be ... I have lived in safe bird nest ... but that does not mean I would accept all kinds of people anywhere near to me (or into my countries). Nope, I do not. Not even many Europeans.

[gixajo]

In any of the countries of the list, you can find great wines and horrible wines.

France has always known how to sell its products very well, and in terms of image it beats everyone, not always so much in quality.

With this I am not saying that France does not have very good wines, it does, but not nearly as good as the price that many of them have.

Anyway, the best wine is the one you like the most, not the one that anyone tells you is the best. And the one you like the most is the one you drink easily and effortlessly.

And of course, the best wine is not necessarily the most expensive.

[Finnish Swede]

In any of the countries of the list, you can find great wines and horrible wines.

France has always known how to sell its products very well, and in terms of image it beats everyone, not always so much in quality.

With this I am not saying that France does not have very good wines, it does, but not nearly as good as the price that many of them have.

Anyway, the best wine is the one you like the most, not the one that anyone tells you is the best. And the one you like the most is the one you drink easily and effortlessly.

And of course, the best wine is not necessarily the most expensive.


Based on our prices (which is high) ... the cheapest wines here are about 7 euros, but those are not good. Between 8,50 to 9,50 euros ... best red wines comes to Portuguese and few of those are already pretty good (in my taste). Saying other ways: Great value of money.

If we rise the price range a bit ... we start to find good wines from several countries. For example from Italy ... different Ripassos. Plus I have never taste any bad Tommasi wine :p. But oh, I'm not expert. I basically only drink wines in bigger celebrations.
.

[gixajo]

I would not. I avoid gypsies.

Plus I do not use alcohol much.

And lastly: I have read about wine scandals of Austria (1980's?). People there mixed diethylene glycol to wines to make those taste better...

Probably because grapes have trouble ripening well in countries with early winters, and they produce little sugar, which is what turns into alcohol during fermentation.

Winemaking in relatively cold climates is fraught with problems, and not only winemaking, but also the cultivation of the vine itself, except with highly adapted varieties.

White grape varieties tend to be more conducive to being grown in more humid and colder climates than red ones.

[Thracian]

Chile and Argentina.

[Finnish Swede]

I tend to choose Spaniard Cavas over French Champagnes. Better value of money.

[Mixdguy17]

I dont like drinking Wine too much but I think its most likely a Tie between Italy, France and Spain.

[El_Abominacion]

Spanish is definitely my favourite. Then a tie between Italian and French wine

[Karadon]

the ones i made tasted better than the other wines i bought

[Roy]

Wines from French or Chile are the best.

[Ülev]

I like our local wines


https://youtu.be/j9ET2pQYVgE

[stellan]

france and italy

[Universe]

Hungary (no bias at all!) :heh:

[Ülev]

^^ Mad wine

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/M%C3%81D_Furmint.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokaji

[Melki]

don't sleep on (someone or something)

meaning: Don't fail to appreciate or ignore the significance of someone or something. ... They may be underdogs, but don't sleep on them in these playoffs.

No doubt that Moldova produces a honest wine, but to be sincere with you there is no way it could compete with the best vintage wines from France, Italy, California, Spain or Argentina...



In any of the countries of the list, you can find great wines and horrible wines.

France has always known how to sell its products very well, and in terms of image it beats everyone, not always so much in quality.

With this I am not saying that France does not have very good wines, it does, but not nearly as good as the price that many of them have.

Anyway, the best wine is the one you like the most, not the one that anyone tells you is the best. And the one you like the most is the one you drink easily and effortlessly.

And of course, the best wine is not necessarily the most expensive.

It's true that many French wines intended for export are overrated.

But on the other hand, the high price for the most sought after grands crus is justified, according to oenologists, since the perfect harvest conditions are seldom met.

A couple of years ago, a bottle of Romanée Conti (a notorious Burgundy considered as the world's most expensive wine) from the 1945 vintage was sold 558 000 dollars.


I tend to choose Spaniard Cavas over French Champagnes. Better value of money.

I can't imagine Formula One drivers celebrating their victory with Spanish cava. :eek:

https://zupimages.net/up/20/39/yb4d.jpg (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/39/yb4d.jpg)

[Melki]

I dont like drinking Wine too much but I think its most likely a Tie between Italy, France and Spain.

Any sommelier or wine professional would put it in that order.

https://zupimages.net/up/20/39/a343.png (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/39/a343.png)

[JosephK]

Yep, I'd say Italy, France, Spain (depending on type of course, and I only drink red wine). But definitely I think California wines are way overrated and Macedonian wines under-rated.

[Finnish Swede]

I can't imagine Formula One drivers celebrating their victory with Spanish cava. :eek:

https://zupimages.net/up/20/39/yb4d.jpg (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/39/yb4d.jpg)


LOL. Those people/organizations will not need to think how much bottle of one will cost (opposite to me). Not to talking about huge magnum bottles. But I bet good quality Cavas will still taste as good as Moet and Chandon.

[Alenka]

Slovenia.
:rolleyes:

[Melki]

LOL. Those people/organizations will not need to think how much bottle of one will cost (opposite to me). Not to talking about huge magnum bottles. But I bet good quality Cavas will still taste as good as Moet and Chandon.
:picard2:

Perhaps YOU wouldn't see any difference, but I can guarantee that the least experienced wine experts do. As clear as night and day.
It would be like comparing a Fiat Panda with a Lamborghini Countach. :rolleyes:

[Loki]

Deleted some offtopic. This is not a dating site or thread please.

[Faklon]

Not really a fan of wine or alcohol in general. I prefer Ouzo, Tsikoudia/Tsipouro or Beers if anything.

There are some decent varieties of wines here I think which may also be quite VFM since the wine culture and demand is far lower than in Southwestern Europe.

I would only drink expensive wine with Mortimer discussing the angles of our dickpics with stronk Blakan turbo-folk playing in the background.

[gixajo]

Hungary (no bias at all!)

Your Tokay is quite good.:)

[Finnish Swede]

:picard2:

Perhaps YOU wouldn't see any difference, but I can guarantee that the least experienced wine experts do. As clear as night and day.
It would be like comparing a Fiat Panda with a Lamborghini Countach. :rolleyes:

Well... they said (in Top Gear) that Lamborghini Countach was actually pretty bad/unpleasant car to drive :p

I have tasted some champagnes so far. No many, but few.

Plus I have this waiting for day I will graduated (get my papers out).
Good enough?

https://images.alko.fi/images/cs_srgb,f_auto,t_medium/cdn/008715/bollinger-special-cuvee-champagne-brut.jpg



So you are saying that for example this is ''bad''
Juvé y Camps Gran Reserva Cava Brut 2015
https://images.alko.fi/images/cs_srgb,f_auto,t_large/cdn/918997/juve-y-camps-gran-reserva-cava-brut-2015.jpg

[Melki]

Well... they said (in Top Gear) that Lamborghini Countach was actually pretty bad/unpleasant car to drive :p

I have tasted some champagnes so far. No many, but few.

Plus I have this waiting for day I will graduated (get my papers out).
Good enough?

https://images.alko.fi/images/cs_srgb,f_auto,t_medium/cdn/008715/bollinger-special-cuvee-champagne-brut.jpg



So you are saying that for example this is ''bad''
Juvé y Camps Gran Reserva Cava Brut 2015
https://images.alko.fi/images/cs_srgb,f_auto,t_large/cdn/918997/juve-y-camps-gran-reserva-cava-brut-2015.jpg

I don't say it's bad. (I'm not talking about Armenian or Lebanese wine), Spain has some of the most renowned wine regions in the world.

But we're talking about labeled Champagne...the king of sparkling wines, unmatched in terms of prestige and respect. Don't get fooled by a bottle.

[Damião de Góis]

I don't care much about wine, but it was funny seeing Melki the sudaca claiming our wines were cheap after someone simply said they liked them :rolleyes:

[Mortimer]

Im not familiar as much with all the wines. I just voted french for its reputation. But I drink when I drink (not often, not much). Zdrebcava Krv. That is a serbian wine and means horse (young horse or horse kid) blood. It is red wine.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61PUu39KrVL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

[Finnish Swede]

I don't care much about wine, but it was funny seeing Melki the sudaca claiming our wines were cheap after someone simply said they liked them :rolleyes:

+1

But I agree, with exactly wines Scandinavian culture/knowledge are pretty limited versus some Southern countries (in this context I calculate France among of those). Still personally that does no matter/harm me very much. I'm simply country girl. I just trust on my own taste (anyway), and try drink something I prefer/like and afford to buy :). If I do not know/recognize hundreds or thousands different wine brands or grapes, so be it.

My father has one French colleague. Bit weird man (southern) but still someway charming old gentleman. He has born (comes from) Bordeaux area. He is so tight (''serious'') with wines that he does not want to drink even another French wines (for example Bourgogne wines).

As he is visiting in Finland, he opposite wants to buy clean & fresh chanterelles from local market places. Or bring those to his wife.
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Most of times his schedules (airport => meeting => airport) has been so tight that there is no time to visit in the city/centre)

Once as I knew he was coming, I went to forest and picked up some of those to him. My dad gave them to him.

[Finnish Swede]

I don't care much about wine, but it was funny seeing Melki the sudaca claiming our wines were cheap after someone simply said they liked them :rolleyes:

For example these 3 Portuguese wines are all good (all in 8euros - 9,50euros price range here incl. our high taxes). There are several of red wines from Chile, Spain, Italy, France, Southern Africa, Australia, Argentine, Bulgaria etc. in that same low price range ... and based on my opinion those Portuguese wines are the best (so far).

LU actually might be most sale red wine in Finland now 2020. The label/sticker in the bottom (LÖYTÖ ... viinilehti) ... has been put in Finland by ALKO. Finland's wine magazine has valued it extremely good wine for its sale price. It is the cheapest of 3 ... just 8euros.


https://www.rosaviinijaruoka.fi/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/setencostas-red-375ml.jpg

https://www.rosaviinijaruoka.fi/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/LAB-Reserva-Touriga-Nacional-Cabernet-Sauvignon-Syrah-2016.jpg



https://www.rosaviinijaruoka.fi/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/duas-uvas-vinho.jpg

[Samnium]

France, not even close. After France I would say Italy.

[Melki]

Double post

[Melki]

I don't care much about wine, but it was funny seeing Melki the sudaca claiming our wines were cheap after someone simply said they liked them :rolleyes:

I never meant Portuguese wines were cheap. Portugal is one of the most reputed wine producers in the world, with a very long tradition.
I just wrote that the Portuguese wines are among the cheapest (or better said, the most affordable) in the Scandinavian alcohol outlets, perhaps because they are only wines selected for export. No doubt that the best Portuguese wines remain in Portugal.

And I don't care if you call me "Sudaca", although I posted the results of my autosomal DNA test that clearly show that I'm 100% European. You can think what you want, it has no effect on me.
It's just sad that many right-wingers lack so much brain power that they need continuing use of defamation in order to discredit an opponent...:rolleyes:

But back to the wines....
Here's my personal list of the world's top 10 quality wine producers

1- France
2- Italy
3- United States
4- Spain
5- Argentina
6- Portugal
7- Germany
8- Australia
9- South Africa
10- Chile

[Finnish Swede]

Just for curiosity .... I went watch which is the most expensive red wine available in ALKO Finland.

It is this one from France:

https://cdn.ct-static.com/labels/09d73dcb-31aa-4b1a-a166-558e69ece506.jpg

Now, no doubts there are even much more expensive wines in the World than that one. Plus note that our price incl. huge local taxes, but still? 8999,90eur per bottle. 10 cents under 9000euros for one 0,75l bottle.

Now then, if people are saying here that French wines are the best, are you saying that like saying: Italian cars are best (because of Ferrari etc.)? Or are we saying that because of quality of French wines which normal people are also able to buy and drink ... are the best?

Secondly which price range wines you normally buy? I know what some wines costs with pretty light taxes (have been in Latvia for example).

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Portugal, hands down. French and Italian wine have good marketing behind their products and while they produce good wines they are absolutely not worth their price tag most of the time. Very few wines are worth spending more than 30 bucks on them. You are paying for a premium label when you could just get a bottle of Portuguese wine for one third of the cost that will be equally as good if not better. It is the same with Scotch, anything that costs more than $100 will not be better, you are just paying for a "premium" experience.

Anyway, trust the people who are experienced on the subject.

https://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/wine-who-per-capita.jpg

[magicalM]

I know... I have to give my vote to Hungarian wine. We all know that Italy, France and Spain are well known for their wine. Hungarian Tokaj is famous. Apart from that, Egri Bikaver from Eger have some really really high ratings if you are willing to exceed the 6 euro budget ones. Vivino is a good place to start. Here is an example! And if you willing to go up in price, then heaven is waiting for you! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200924/fff6bf65d85167679ac2a0cfb9e12b69.jpg

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[magicalM]

I know... I have to give my vote to Hungarian wine. We all know that Italy, France and Spain are well known for their wine. Hungarian Tokaj is famous. Apart from that, Egri Bikaver from Eger have some really really high ratings if you are willing to exceed the 6 euro budget ones. Vivino is a good place to start. Here is an example! And if you willing to go up in price, then heaven is waiting for you! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200924/fff6bf65d85167679ac2a0cfb9e12b69.jpg

Sent from my Mi 9T using TapatalkAnd I forgot to mention Szekszárd which given as an example

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[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I know... I have to give my vote to Hungarian wine.

I have been to Eger and I was pleasantly surprised with the Hungarian wine culture. Good stuff.

[Melki]

Just for curiosity .... I went watch which is the most expensive red wine available in ALKO Finland.

It is this one from France:

https://cdn.ct-static.com/labels/09d73dcb-31aa-4b1a-a166-558e69ece506.jpg

Now, no doubts there are even much more expensive wines in the World than that one. Plus note that our price incl. huge local taxes, but still? 8999,90eur per bottle. 10 cents under 9000euros for one 0,75l bottle.

Now then, if people are saying here that French wines are the best, are you saying that like saying: Italian cars are best (because of Ferrari etc.)? Or are we saying that because of quality of French wines which normal people are also able to buy and drink ... are the best?

Secondly which price range wines you normally buy? I know what some wines costs with pretty light taxes (have been in Latvia for example).

It may be only wine for you, but oenologists and sommeliers make no mistake about it.

The wine shown on your picture is precisely the most expensive wine in the world: Romanée Conti, a red Bourgogne. As I mentioned in a previous post, two years ago, a bottle of the 1945 vintage was sold at an auction for 558 000 dollars, because 1945 was an exceptional year for that wine, but above all because there are only few bottles from that year left in the world.
A wine is not expensive because it has a French sticker on it, but because of its gustatory quality, its savoriness...

And the most expensive wine doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best. In the case of Romanée Conti, the harvest conditions play a significant role. Burgundy has a harsher climate than the Bordeaux area, therefore there are less exceptional Bourgogne than Bordeaux. Hence the skyhigh price.
The five Bordeaux premiers crus Château Haut-Brion, Château Lafite Rothschild, Château Latour, Château Margaux or Château Mouton Rothschild are more praised than the best Bourgogne, although they are less expensive (around 3 500 Euros for a Château Latour in a wine outlet, and from 25 000 Euros for a Romanée Conti).

[Melki]

Portugal, hands down. French and Italian wine have good marketing behind their products and while they produce good wines they are absolutely not worth their price tag most of the time. Very few wines are worth spending more than 30 bucks on them. You are paying for a premium label when you could just get a bottle of Portuguese wine for one third of the cost that will be equally as good if not better. It is the same with Scotch, anything that costs more than $100 will not be better, you are just paying for a "premium" experience.

Anyway, trust the people who are experienced on the subject.

https://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/wine-who-per-capita.jpg

How do you know French and Italian wines are overrated and are just a matter of "marketing"?

Have you ever tried a vintage Château d'Yquem or a Montrachet Côte de Beaune ?
I'm sure not. Because neither you nor I can afford it.

When you look at a wine estate from the Bordeaux area, you immediately understand that tradition means something to the French (marketing, oh my God :picard1:)

https://zupimages.net/up/20/39/106x.jpg (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/39/106x.jpg)

The southern Euro inferiority complex towards the French is a bottomless pit (we make better wine, better cheese, our capital city is more pretty than Paris, we are lighter than the French, look at this blonde judge or at this basketball player, we have less blacks...:picard2:)

[Faklon]

Portugal, hands down. French and Italian wine have good marketing behind their products and while they produce good wines they are absolutely not worth their price tag most of the time. Very few wines are worth spending more than 30 bucks on them. You are paying for a premium label when you could just get a bottle of Portuguese wine for one third of the cost that will be equally as good if not better. It is the same with Scotch, anything that costs more than $100 will not be better, you are just paying for a "premium" experience.

Anyway, trust the people who are experienced on the subject.

https://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/wine-who-per-capita.jpg

Looks rather dubious mate, Brits here consider wine a semi-exotic drink and Italians are mad for it.

This makes more sense,

The World’s Biggest Wine Drinkers 2017
(https://www.movehub.com/blog/wine-consumption-worldwide-2017/)

Portugal again is on the top but the overall breakdown seems more balanced.

[Faklon]

better cheese

That's absolutely true, much healthier cheese on top of that.

[Finnish Swede]

Opinions might vary, but as I come from Scandinavia (not from any wine culture areas) ... for me what I eat at lunch or at dinner is always more important than what I'll drink (that my food is excellent). Of course good right kind of wine will support taste of food ... but still support. Or, that is how I think. Opinions might vary.

Based on my thinking: I would not easily go to buy wine which is much more expensive than food I'll eat. Personally I do not care about wines which are more expensive than 25 euros (here). I rarely buy any over 20 euros either (Christmas etc. maybe). Most of time price range is both sides of 10 euros (+/- 2 euros).

If I would be rich person, all what I wrote above would be fully meaningless. But I'm not. Like most of us.


Plus another question someway close to thread's topic. I have understood that global warming has started to cause headaches to some wine producers (wine areas/ wine countries). How you see future of wine producing/ wine industry? Who will be winners and who not?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

How do you know French and Italian wines are overrated and are just a matter of "marketing"?

Have you ever tried a vintage Château d'Yquem or a Montrachet Côte de Beaune ?
I'm sure not. Because neither you nor I can afford it.

When you look at a wine estate from the Bordeaux area, you immediately understand that tradition means something to the French (marketing, oh my God :picard1:)

https://zupimages.net/up/20/39/106x.jpg (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/39/106x.jpg)

The southern Euro inferiority complex towards the French is a bottomless pit (we make better wine, better cheese, our capital city is more pretty than Paris, we are lighter than the French, look at this blonde judge or at this basketball player, we have less blacks...:picard2:)

We can not afford it because it is a collectors item. You are paying for a collectors item, not for what the wine is actually worth or what it costed to be produced.

Most of what you are paying for is marketing and the brand value, that is noticeable in wines that have a price difference of $20, let alone wines that cost thousands of euros. You have to be very naive not to believe that.

An example with two American wines:

https://media.winefolly.com/cheap-vs-expensive-wine.png

All I want is a nice wine to go with a lovely meal I do not want to memorize the lineage of every Chateau in Bordeaux dating back to 1389. Perhaps we also have inferiority complexes in relation to French "sissyness"\pretentiousness but regarding wines I can assure you that there is no complex. Most Portuguese stand by their wine. Nobody consumes imported wine in here, not matter if cheap or expensive because we know we are not missing out, our grapes rival with those of the fancy wine producers.

[Melki]

We can not afford it because it is a collectors item. You are paying for a collectors item, not for what the wine is actually worth or what it costed to be produced.

Most of what you are paying for is marketing and the brand value, that is noticeable in wines that have a price difference of $20, let alone wines that cost thousands of euros. You have to be very naive not to believe that.

An example with two American wines:

https://media.winefolly.com/cheap-vs-expensive-wine.png

All I want is a nice wine to go with a lovely meal I do not want to memorize the lineage of every Chateau in Bordeaux dating back to 1389. Perhaps we also have inferiority complexes in relation to French "sissyness"\pretentiousness but regarding wines I can assure you that there is no complex. Most Portuguese stand by their wine. Nobody consumes imported wine in here, not matter if cheap or expensive because we know we are not missing out, our grapes rival with those of the fancy wine producers.

lol. You know nothing about wine industry. :picard2:

Your analys is based on American wine, the United States is the country where marketing is king. Some US-produced sparkling wines even use the term Champagne on their labels, a blasphemy in France!

In Europe wines are subject to very strict restrictions on yield and vine variety. In Bordeaux, The Official Classification of 1855 was requested by Emperor Napoleon III for Bordeaux wines. Brokers from the wine industry ranked the wines according to a château's reputation and trading prices, and guess what? This classification is still valid today, with almost no exception throughout history.
All factors play a decisive role in a wine's reputation: the oak barrel (yes, it makes a huge difference whether it's American or French oak), the cork, the noble rot, just everything. Why do you think the world's best sommeliers are able to identify any kind of wine by grape variety, estate, year of release...all this with eyes closed? Do you really think the reputation depends only on a label on the bottle?
Wow, this would make of sommelier the easiest of all well-paid jobs on Earth. Where do I sign? You are the naive one for that purpose.

And it's the same in Portugal, Porto is undoubtedly the best fortified wine in the world, not because Portuguese claim it, but because any wine expert will confirm it to you.
How would you react if I tell you that the best Portos are overrated and that they are equal and even inferior to any ordinary Spanish sherry? :rolleyes:

Last but not least, your map doesn't make any sense. Portuguese have the highest wine consum in Europe. So and what? How could this mean they produce the best wines? In your map, Romanians consum more wine than Spaniards (17 liters per capita according to the map), but it's because Spaniards are staunch cerveza-drinkers, not because they make poor-quality wines.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

lol. You know nothing about wine industry. :picard2:

Do you know how to make wine or have you ever done it? Most Portuguese members in here probably have, from harvest to the final product on the table. Could not care less about your pretentious French chicness.


Your analys is based on American wine, the United States is the country where marketing is king. Some US-produced sparkling wines even use the term Champagne on their labels, a blasphemy in France!

The expert on the wine industry that claims that only the U.S. cares about marketing and brand value...all the regulations you have in France are not meant to protect its controlled denomination and regional\brand value, at all!...


In Europe wines are subject to very strict restrictions on yield and vine variety. In Bordeaux, The Official Classification of 1855 was requested by Emperor Napoleon III for Bordeaux wines. Brokers from the wine industry ranked the wines according to a château's reputation and trading prices, and guess what? This classification is still valid today, with almost no exception throughout history.
All factors play a decisive role in a wine's reputation: the oak barrel (yes, it makes a huge difference whether it's American or French oak), the cork, the noble rot, just everything. Why do you think the world's best sommeliers are able to identify any kind of wine by grape variety, estate, year of release...all this with eyes closed? Do you really think the reputation depends only on a label on the bottle?
Wow, this would make of sommelier the easiest of all well-paid jobs on Earth. Where do I sign? You are the naive one for that purpose.

Only enthusiasts with years of practice can identify something like that blindfolded.

"Over 500 people tasted wine flights composed from 523 different wines ranging in price from $1.65 to $150. They then answered the question “Overall, how do you find the wine?”

The bottom line is that in blind tastings of regular people, there is no correlation between the wines they like and the price of the wine. In fact, the paper found a slightly negative correlation, suggesting that regular people actually prefer cheaper wines.

Among wine experts (people with formal wine training), the test found a slight positive correlation between the price of wine and the scores assigned by the reviewers. Experts, it seems, really do prefer more expensive wine according to the experiment. About 12% of the participants were labeled “expert,” because they had some wine training, such as a sommelier course."

Source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-decision-tree/201207/cheap-and-expensive-wine-taste-the-same-in-blind-taste-tests

The background story of some item like a bottle of wine influences our expectations and changes our interpretation. If I pour some 50€ wine into a 1000€ bottle and give it to you most likely you will say that it was the best wine you have ever had...


And it's the same in Portugal, Porto is undoubtedly the best fortified wine in the world, not because Portuguese claim it, but because any wine expert will confirm it to you.
How would you react if I tell you that the best Portos are overrated and that they are equal and even inferior to any ordinary Spanish sherry? :rolleyes:

A lot of expensive Porto wine is overpriced and overrated. If not preserved correctly you might get an expensive Porto bottle with 50 years old that will have wine lees at the bottom, which will be a horrible experience. You are paying for how many years that they had the wine stocked without profiting anything from it plus the collectible\enthusiast value, not really how much the actual product is worth.


Last but not least, your map doesn't make any sense. Portuguese have the highest wine consum in Europe. So and what? How could this mean they produce the best wines? In your map, Romanians consum more wine than Spaniards (17 liters per capita according to the map), but it's because Spaniards are staunch cerveza-drinkers, not because they make poor-quality wines.

It means they should know something about wine. You can place France on your top 10 list as number one but I can not say that for me it is Portugal without having you go hysterical and projecting that every "Southerner" has inferiority complexes. This is the opposite of feeling inferior, this is me acknowledging the quality of what we produce in here and standing by it. I could name a lot of stuff that we do not do well but wine certainly is not one of them.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Massive Côte du Rhône fine-wine fraud uncovered by French police


Some 66.5 million bottles of wine, the equivalent of 13 Olympic sized swimming pools full of plonk, was falsely sold as high quality Côtes-du-Rhône wine, French officials have revealed.
Almost half a million hectolitres of wine was sold off under the Côtes du Rhône AOC label - which denotes both the geographical origin of the wine and a certification of quality.

Some of the wine, 10,000 litres in fact, was even falsely sold under the renowned Chateauneuf-du-Pape AOP label, the commercial value off which was €7000,000.

The massive fraud was revealed in a report this week by France's consumer fraud body the Direction Générale de la Concurrence, de la Consommation et de la Répression des Fraudes (DGCDRF).

Their inquiry into the 2017 scam unearthed a "massive misuse of the Côtes-du-Rhône label" including by a major wine producer, which has not been named.

But DGCCRF chief executive Virginie Beaumeunier told the press that the "CEO of the company" was "indicted for deception and fraud".

Wine fraud in France has become an issue for authorities and customers alike in recent years with the problem being highlighted by the jailing in 2016 of a French wine baron.

Francois-Marie Marret was given a two-year sentence for fraud for blending poor quality wine with high-end Saint-Emilions, Lalande-de-Pomerols and Listrac-Medocs to sell to major supermarkets under prestigious labels.

The 800,000-litre (211,000-gallon) "moon wine" fraud, so called because the cheap wine was spirited to his operation by night, was uncovered thanks to the diligent work of French customs inspectors.

Source: https://www.thelocal.fr/20180316/massive-cte-du-rhne-fine-wine-fraud-smashed-by-french-police

Probably the type of overpriced wine Melki would buy and swear by that it is the best wine ever.

[Universe]

TA has lots of wine experts per capita. Personally I don't care much about wines. ( I know it's sold as something 'high brow' and 'intellectual' but I don't see it as such)
All of them are the same to me.

[Melki]

Do you know how to make wine or have you ever done it? Most Portuguese members in here probably have, from harvest to the final product on the table. Could not care less about your pretentious French chicness.



The expert on the wine industry that claims that only the U.S. cares about marketing and brand value...all the regulations you have in France are not meant to protect its controlled denomination and regional\brand value, at all!...



Only enthusiasts with years of practice can identify something like that blindfolded.

"Over 500 people tasted wine flights composed from 523 different wines ranging in price from $1.65 to $150. They then answered the question “Overall, how do you find the wine?”

The bottom line is that in blind tastings of regular people, there is no correlation between the wines they like and the price of the wine. In fact, the paper found a slightly negative correlation, suggesting that regular people actually prefer cheaper wines.

Among wine experts (people with formal wine training), the test found a slight positive correlation between the price of wine and the scores assigned by the reviewers. Experts, it seems, really do prefer more expensive wine according to the experiment. About 12% of the participants were labeled “expert,” because they had some wine training, such as a sommelier course."

Source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-decision-tree/201207/cheap-and-expensive-wine-taste-the-same-in-blind-taste-tests

The background story of some item like a bottle of wine influences our expectations and changes our interpretation. If I pour some 50€ wine into a 1000€ bottle and give it to you most likely you will say that it was the best wine you have ever had...



A lot of expensive Porto wine is overpriced and overrated. If not preserved correctly you might get an expensive Porto bottle with 50 years old that will have wine lees at the bottom, which will be a horrible experience. You are paying for how many years that they had the wine stocked without profiting anything from it plus the collectible\enthusiast value, not really how much the actual product is worth.



It means they should know something about wine. You can place France on your top 10 list as number one but I can not say that for me it is Portugal without having you go hysterical and projecting that every "Southerner" has inferiority complexes. This is the opposite of feeling inferior, this is me acknowledging the quality of what we produce in here and standing by it. I could name a lot of stuff that we do not do well but wine certainly is not one of them.

1/ The title of the thread is "which country makes the best wine". According to experts and specialists, overall it's France (with Italy and California as serious contenders). Period. However the title of the poll is "which wine do you prefer?" which is more subjective. I don't mind you prefer Portuguese wine. Many Hungarians and Romanian members have expressed their preference for their national wines (which are good, but it's also the only wines they've ever tasted in their life).
The problem is that you stated that the French wines are overpriced and overrated, and that they don't deserve their high reputation, their over-the-top prices not being justified. This is totally wrong, and you may understand that I must firmly contradict you.

2/ As for myself, I'm not a wine expert. And I know I would not be able to tell the difference between a Champagne and a good Spanish Cava or Crémant de Luxembourg. My taste buds are not trained enough. But wine experts can. It's not only an intellectual thing: wines may taste all the same to Universe or Finnish Swede but not to a professional oenologist.
I would have been lured by the wine fraud, tasting a plonk a taking for granted it's a noble wine. But once again, I'm not a specialist, I leave that job to others. I'm only a wine enthusiast who purchase the bottles I can afford. And as long as I do it with pleasure, it's no shame. Period.

3/ That's the reason why your blind tasting involving regular persons doesn't make any sense. Only trained experts with years of practice can tell them apart from one another with eyes closed, as pointed out by yourself. Not all sommeliers are equal. Like in sports, there are champions and losers. It's not because you participated in a course and had some basic training that you will become an expert working in a five stars hotel.

4/ I don't deny that marketing is relevant in wine industry, but in Europe, and France in particular, tradition matters more. You can't so easily cheat with the origins and the vinification process to boost up your sales the same way some American producers do. French authorities don't kid with wine, our prestige and our credibility are at stake. Frauds and traffic involving wine are a national shame and sooner or later they are discovered.

5/ Sadly, a lot of Porto brands are overrated and overpriced but not the best ones. It's important to be well-guided and know all the information before any purchase.


TA has lots of wine experts per capita. Personally I don't care much about wines. ( I know it's sold as something 'high brow' and 'intellectual' but I don't see it as such)
All of them are the same to me.

says the man with a very "high-brow French" avatar. Isn't it ironic? :rolleyes:

[Finnish Swede]

Just one curiosity (part of mental differences between Europeans ...)

Many alcohol drinks have been determined/specified (= protected) very tightly ... what can be called (marketing wise): Cognacs, Champagnes, Whiskeys etc. ... where those are produced, how those are produced not to talking about pure raw materials. Except one. Vodka.

Under name of Vodka one can (is allowed) sell almost anything if just alcohol % is high enough. If Vodka would had been product of some others than Northern Europeans ... that would hardly be so.

[magicalM]

I have been to Eger and I was pleasantly surprised with the Hungarian wine culture. Good stuff.Good to hear! There are some hidden treasures there for sure due to the microclimate.

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[Truen]

I dont like Wine its discusting! only German Beer :)

[ModernMaskil]

I dont like Wine its discusting! only German Beer :)

Bruh our ancestors have literally been drinking wine at least once a week for the last few thousand years.
Leave the Mediterranean, pleb.

[Truen]

Bruh our ancestors have literally been drinking wine at least once a week for the last few thousand years.
Leave the Mediterranean, pleb.

and nowdays most of us drink Tirush in the Kiddosh.