Greek protesters attack German official

[Turkophagos]

http://www.dw.de/image/0,,16382661_401,00.jpg


A German official attending a meeting was attacked by protesters in northern Greece on Thursday. Riot police on the scene intervened, but did not arrest the assailants.

Municipal workers staging a protest against austerity cuts on Thursday in the northern Greek city of Thessaloniki have confronted a German diplomat before he was able to enter a building where a Greek-German relations conference was to take place .

The protesters reportedly pushed German Consul Wolfgang Hoelscher-Obermaier, then tried to douse him with coffee and water. Policemen attempted to shield Hoelscher-Obermaier, according to the news agency Reuters.

Several demonstrators then entered the conference center by force, leading to a clash with riot police. Initial reports did not indicate that any injuries or arrests had occurred during the violence.

The municipal workers chose the site for the demonstration after learning that German Chancellor Angela Merkel's special envoy to Greece, Hans Joachim Fuchtel, had planned to attend.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel condemned the attack.

"Violence is not the way to settle differences," she said after a meeting with the French Prime Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault in Berlin on Thursday.

According to dpa news agency, Fuchtel, who is also the German Deputy Labor Minister, told reporters that Greek cities should try to reduce the number of local government employees. He reportedly said that it took three times as many Greek municipal employees to do the same amount of work as their German counterparts.

Anti-German sentiment

Thursday's attack follows a day of protests across countries hit hardest by the economic crisis. Recurring protests across southern Europe have often led to clashes with the police.

The violent confrontation involving the German official in Thessaloniki reflects the ever-growing animosity in Greece toward the German government, which many protesters in the Mediterranean country have blamed for the harsh austerity measures.

In October, tens of thousands took to the streets of Athens to protest against German Chancellor Angela Merkel's trip to meet with the Greek government, brandishing signs depicting Merkel as Adolf Hitler.

Greece, where unemployment reached 25 percent this year, is facing a likely sixth year of economic recession.



http://www.dw.de/greek-protesters-attack-german-official/a-16381676

[Onur]

Biting the hand that feeds you, not so wise

[Flintlocke]

Let's see who the commies will beat up tomorrow :P

[jerney]

According to dpa news agency, Fuchtel, who is also the German Deputy Labor Minister, told reporters that Greek cities should try to reduce the number of local government employees. He reportedly said that it took three times as many Greek municipal employees to do the same amount of work as their German counterparts.

This is 100 percent true. Instead of attacking some foreign politician for stating the obvious, these people should direct their anger towards their own politicians who are helping contribute to the destruction of Greece and their fellow citizens who work in the public sector and are lazy, rude and inefficient workers and still receive wages that many Greeks could only dream of right now.

[AkisGreece]

According to dpa news agency, Fuchtel, who is also the German Deputy Labor Minister, told reporters that Greek cities should try to reduce the number of local government employees. He reportedly said that it took three times as many Greek municipal employees to do the same amount of work as their German counterparts.

This is 100 percent true. Instead of attacking some foreign politician for stating the obvious, these people should direct their anger towards their own politicians who are helping contribute to the destruction of Greece and their fellow citizens who work in the public sector and are lazy, rude and inefficient workers and still receive wages that many Greeks could only dream of right now.

Let's not forget that German officials awake bad memories from hunger and opression due to the Hitler's regime presence in Greece.

It doesn't matter how hard Germans try to bury deeply their past,people will never forget.

[Absinthe]

Let's not forget that German officials awake bad memories from hunger and opression due to the Hitler's regime presence in Greece.

It doesn't matter how hard Germans try to bury deeply their past,people will never forget.
That is the lamest excuse I've heard for justifying leftist stupidity for quite a while...

[AkisGreece]

That is the lamest excuse I've heard for justifying leftist stupidity for quite a while...

Maybe your family hasn't been affected by German hunger during the WWII.


My grandfather came near to extinction back then.

[jerney]

Let's not forget that German officials awake bad memories from hunger and opression due to the Hitler's regime presence in Greece.

It doesn't matter how hard Germans try to bury deeply their past,people will never forget.

The majority of the people in that crowd were 20-50 years old. They experienced nothing of the German occupation and I personally don't know any Greeks born after the war that harbor ill-feelings for modern Germans simply for what their grandparents/great-grandparents did.

[AkisGreece]

The majority of the people in that crowd were 20-50 years old. They experienced nothing of the German occupation and I personally don't know any Greeks born after the war that harbor ill-feelings for modern Germans simply for what their grandparents/great-grandparents did.

Then you should add me as the first in your list.


Greece never had 25% unemployment,and this simply happens due to Kostas Simitis who sold the country to the Germans.

Under US or British sphere of influence Greece prospered.
Numbers can speak for themselves.

[Absinthe]

Maybe your family hasn't been affected by German hunger during the WWII.


My grandfather came near to extinction back then.
My family was affected much like everybody else's. So what? What on earth does this have to do with stating the obvious 70 years later,
that the municipality employees who were hired as a political favor, while there was no need for them, should be fired now?
Why does everything need to be reduced to WWII drama? It wouldn't have mattered if it was a German or a Nepalese making this statement about Greek civil servants, cause it's the obvious truth!

[AkisGreece]

My family was affected much like everybody else's. So what? What on earth does this have to do with stating the obvious 70 years later,
that the municipality employees who were hired as a political favor, while there was no need for them, should be fired now?
Why does everything need to be reduced to WWII drama? It wouldn't have mattered if it was a German or a Nepalese making this statement about Greek civil servants, cause it's the obvious truth!

It has to do Absinthe due to the fact that Germans not only stole all of our food back then,they have also destroyed much of the infrastructure,took a debt they never paid back and laid the foundations of a destructive civil war while the rest of Europe was restructuring.



I can sense your anger and envy against civil servants who enjoy a steady income while you don't,but that doesn't make Germans innocent after the bloodshed they spread all over Europe.


Fifty years might be quite a lot comparing to average life expectancy of a 80 y old Greek,but in history it is equal to no more than a day.


And Jerney,your husband might like Germans...Maniots were the traitots who collaborated with Germans and killed Democrats for a peace of bread.



I personally do not want your companies here the same way that you don't want to pay lazy 'Southerners'.

[jerney]

Then you should add me as the first in your list.


Greece never had 25% unemployment,and this simply happens due to Kostas Simitis who sold the country to the Germans.

Under US or British sphere of influence Greece prospered.
Numbers can speak for themselves.

Even if that's the case, don't you think your anger is misplaced? Your country betrayed you, not Germany. Germany has no loyalties or commitments to Greece. Your country sold you out, not Germany. If your wife cheats on you, who deserves more of your venom, her or the man that screwed her? If you're a typical hot-headed Greek, probably the man, but therein lies one of biggest problems with the Greek mentality and temperament.

[AkisGreece]

Even if that's the case, don't you think your anger is misplaced? Your country betrayed you, not Germany. Germany has no loyalties or commitments to Greece. Your country sold you out, not Germany. If your wife cheats on you, who deserves more of your venom, her or the man that screwed her? If you're a typical hot-headed Greek, probably the man, but therein lies one of biggest problems with the Greek mentality and temperament.

Let me respond to your protestant way of thinking and judging people.

Economist places France as the next in Mr. Schäuble's list....
France is not a 10 million state like Greece or Portugal to be easily manipulated.


France is the country of the Commune and Revolution with nuclear weapons and tactical army ready anytime to attack the Maghreb and Levant.


So the question to Germans will be,either you pay via EuroBonds or Eurozone collapses.
It is the best as long as Europe works for Germany in the end.


You are a declining nation that will be 70 million to 2050,immigrants included.
France would have similar population and Russian GDP will overwhelm your own.

The only reasonable voice in Germany comes from older politicians who are put in the corner.


Greece just has to not be the one to leave the Euro first.
It's the best it can do up to what the situation is now.

[Absinthe]

I can sense your anger and envy against civil servants who enjoy a steady income while you don't,but that doesn't make Germans innocent after the bloodshed they spread all of Europe.

Exactly: all (at least most) of Europe suffered in WWII. But I don't see them whining about it today and relating these incidents to their current financial mishaps, not painting Hitler's mustaches on Merkel's portraits and making comical things like that.

We are the only people doing it that and it makes me feel lousy as a Greek. Only whiny Jews are into this sort of demonizing and at least they're financially strong and successful.

On the other hand, we have singlehandedly fucked our own economy and the Germans might have benefited from that in the past, one way or another.

But I didn't see any German politician in the past asking the Greek politicians to hire people the State doesn't need in exchange for votes, to give away large benefits and ridiculous privileges to the scum of the country (the lazy assholes who don't want to work, the syndicate mafia or the bastards who falsely claim to be blind or handicapped in order to get money from the state) and to take huge loans from the EU to sustain the nouveau-Greque lifestyle.
Greece has been creating a monster over the last decades and Greeks themselves are entirely, 100% responsible for it. Everything else is just denial, scapegoating and lame excuses.

It takes courage and bravery to admit your mistakes and learn from them. Or we can keep hiding behind our fingers.

[Flintlocke]

On the other hand, we have singlehandedly fucked our own economy and the Germans might have benefited from that in the past, one way or another.


The 'system' has created a generation of freeloaders and moochers who are counter productive. I can write 2 pages of what I went through yesterday at the ministry of transportation for a simple job. How is it possible that Olympic Airlines was working perfectly under Onasis with fewer than 200 employees and when the state took it over Olympic had 10,000!!!! employees. The only sector doing well is shipping because there is no state interference and the Greek intellect and ingenuity is given free reign.

Maybe the solution is to go back to a feudal type system where the Lords minded their business and the plebs theirs, the only interference between them was the collection of taxes.

[AkisGreece]

Exactly: all (at least most) of Europe suffered in WWII. But I don't see them whining about it today and relating these incidents to their current financial mishaps, not painting Hitler's mustaches on Merkel's portraits and making comical things like that.

We are the only people doing it that and it makes me feel lousy as a Greek. Only whiny Jews are into this sort of demonizing and at least they're financially strong and successful.

On the other hand, we have singlehandedly fucked our own economy and the Germans might have benefited from that in the past, one way or another.

But I didn't see any German politician in the past asking the Greek politicians to hire people the State doesn't need in exchange for votes, to give away large benefits and ridiculous privileges to the scum of the country (the lazy assholes who don't want to work, the syndicate mafia or the bastards who falsely claim to be blind or handicapped in order to get money from the state) and to take huge loans from the EU to sustain the nouveau-Greque lifestyle.
Greece has been creating a monster over the last decades and Greeks themselves are entirely, 100% responsible for it. Everything else is just denial, scapegoating and lame excuses.

It takes courage and bravery to admit your mistakes and learn from them. Or we can keep hiding behind our fingers.


1.Greece was the only country that had a civil war after WWII which was equal to financial and demographic decline.

2.Germany's allies paid for free for the restructure of West Germany due to American initiative,simply because they wanted a country to counterbalance USSR influence in Central Europe.

3.Germany's prosperity is due the free money they took after WWII and its geographic location.
All the myth for hard working Germans is simply a stereotype.
I guess you have never visited yourself Germany.
I've been to Berlin and Hamburg and the only thing that i admired was organisation.
I saw no struggling hard working people,just cold and unemotional Northern Europeans.
If Greeks were that lazy,Germans wouldn't hire them in their factories back in the 50's.

4.10 million population countries in sensitive geopolitical crossroads are under foreign parenthood and cannot decide for their own future.
It's the law of the land in any place all over the world.
Your main problem is that you compare Greece with countries geopoliticaly unimportant like Finland,Sweden,Norway and Denmark who not only were let to follow their own paths by superpowers,but also have a totally different appoach towards life due to their climate and history.

5.You are referring to the last 30 years,aren't you?
Greece was the country with the smallest share of the state when it came to business.
Greece was the only country that had its national air trafficker private,and that was Olympic Airlines.
Greece became a state and German loan funded economy only after its entrance to the EU.
That was the trend back than that was brought up with the new wave of social welfare state and modernisation.
Not to mention the directives that were embodied in Greek financial life so foreign conglomerates could easily access another 9 million customers for their products.

6.Since you mentioned Jews,let me inform you that they are carrying Carbonarism into them and they have a unique religion that isolates them from the rest of the world.
They control pretty much all of the scholars worldwide and influence US politics as far,as making US their main supporter.
You make again the mistake of comparing an individualistic society like the Greek one with a country totally different,special,with no certain future,which is recently formed.

7.At least you should admit that if you were one of the protesters,a civil servant with secure paycheck, you would tell us things kinda different.
I am a Greek like yourself and i know how you think.

[AkisGreece]

The 'system' has created a generation of freeloaders and moochers who are counter productive. I can write 2 pages of what I went through yesterday at the ministry of transportation for a simple job. How is it possible that Olympic Airlines was working perfectly under Onasis with fewer than 200 employees and when the state took it over Olympic had 10,000!!!! employees. The only sector doing well is shipping because there is no state interference and the Greek intellect and ingenuity is given free reign.

Maybe the solution is to go back to a feudal type system where the Lords minded their business and the plebs theirs, the only interference between them was the collection of taxes.


Maybe the solution would be to leave Greece yourself and move to Northern Italy or France.
The public sector is shitty there too,but none of you mention it.

I will certainly try to leave Greece after military service but not due to the reasons you state,but simply because of German approach to Crisis Management.


Germans destroy Europe for a third time in a row.

[Absinthe]

3.Germany's prosperity is due the free money they took after WWII and its geographic location.
All the myth for hard working Germans is simply a stereotype.
I guess you have never visited yourself Germany.
I've been to Berlin and Hamburg and the only thing that i admired was organisation.
I saw no struggling hard working people,just cold and emotional Northern Europeans.
If Greeks were that lazy,Germans wouldn't hire them in their factories back in the 50's.

One thing that always amazes me about you is your ability to make unfounded assumptions and jump into false conclusions. Same as you concluded that Flint was lying about being banned, that Jerney's husband loves Germans (in fact he hates them, lol), that I haven't lost family in the WWII or that I haven't been to Germany.

I have been to Germany and what I saw was polite, well mannered and quiet people minding their own business.

If that's cold then I'd take that any day over the loud, rude and gesturing crowd shoving me with elbows every day in the bus, constantly whining about everything and yet doing nothing about anything, demanding ridiculous privileges for sitting on their asses all day doing nothing.

The Greeks that were hired in German factories back in the 50's were hard working people. They were laborers who immigrated because they were hungry in their country.
The Greeks of today compare nothing to these Greeks. By and large we are spoiled, we mooch off our parents until we are 35, we chase the dream of the do-nothing dream in the public sector, we spend all day in the cafeteria playing tavli while the immigrants are working in our fields, etc, etc. This is Greece during the last 30 years. Everything has changed since the 50s.


7.At least you should admit that if you were one of the protesters,a civil servant with secure paycheck, you would tell us things kinda different.
I am a Greek like yourself and i know how we thing.

Admit what? I would never be one of these protesters. Ever.
Even if I was in the public sector and have been enjoying sucking the tax payer's money for years, I would still feel bad about it and when the shit would hit the fan I would lower my head and keep quiet. I'd know I would be guilty.

[jerney]

Same as you concluded that Flint was lying about being banned, that Jerney's husband loves Germans (in fact he hates them, lol)

Criterioh doesn't hate Germans, not at all, he is just sensitive to the way some Germans can make untrue or unfair generalizations about Greek people as whole (and I'm not referring to the things said in this article as it's a proper criticism).

[AkisGreece]

One thing that always amazes me about you is your ability to make unfounded assumptions and jump into false conclusions. Same as you concluded that Flint was lying about being banned, that Jerney's husband loves Germans (in fact he hates them, lol), that I haven't lost family in the WWII or that I haven't been to Germany.

I have been to Germany and what I saw was polite, well mannered and quiet people minding their own business.

If that's cold then I'd take that any day over the loud, rude and gesturing crowd shoving me with elbows every day in the bus, constantly whining about everything and yet doing nothing about anything, demanding ridiculous privileges for sitting on their asses all day doing nothing.

The Greeks that were hired in German factories back in the 50's were hard working people. They were laborers who immigrated because they were hungry in their country.
The Greeks of today compare nothing to these Greeks. By and large we are spoiled, we mooch off our parents until we are 35, we chase the dream of the do-nothing dream in the public sector, we spend all day in the cafeteria playing tavli while the immigrants are working in our fields, etc, etc. This is Greece during the last 30 years. Everything has changed since the 50s.



Admit what? I would never be one of these protesters. Ever.
Even if I was in the public sector and have been enjoying sucking the tax payer's money for years, I would still feel bad about it and when the shit would hit the fan I would lower my head and keep quiet. I'd know I would be guilty.


I will only comment that back in 50's all the Greeks,Italians,Yugoslavs and Turks that migrated to West Germany made it due to state aggrements driven by the US to rebuild the West German economy.

And of course i would like to inform you(looks like you have no idea,so this will be serious shit information) that all of the people who left for Germany back then were skilled technicians and engineers.
The main reason of doing that was simply because German youth was exterminated to a second lost world war for Germany.
As a result we lost technical work force for rebuilding the Teutons of Mittelleuropa.



All Greeks who have become immigrants the last 300 years never chose Germany as their destination simply because it doesn't fit their style.
The top destination for a poor and hungry Greek was always the New World...USA and Austalia mostly.
The rich have already been to the UK,Austria,Italy or France,but those have already been rich due to their family connections to the Ottomans.
This group of people had degrees in an area that a no rich wasn't able to study.
Have they offered anything to Greece?
NO!

The dynamical element of Greek diaspora,which equals to entrepreneurs,traders and fund managers have traditionally chosen the US,Australia,Romania(Moldo-Wallachia back then) and the huge market of Russia.

But all these are chit chat next to your supreme geopolitical and geoeconomical essays.


I wish good luck to you,the gentle and quiet Germans and every descendant of Tagmatasfalites.



May the force be with you.
I certainly won't and i'm fucking happy about it.

[AkisGreece]

Criterioh doesn't hate Germans, not at all, he is just sensitive to the way some Germans can make untrue or unfair generalizations about Greek people as whole (and I'm not referring to the things said in this article as it's a proper criticism).

All of Maniots have collaborated with Nazis.
It is well known.

It is obvious that Absinthe is naive in her statements,due to the part that she thinks the whole Greek state is responsible for her past wrong decisions.

[Queen B]

Akis, whatever Germany did, and whatever Germany owes us (because It does), that doesn't change the fact of what OUR country have done wrong. Even after this destruction by the ww2, we managed to advance, and be pretty well, didn't we?

So, about how we became now, who's fault is?
If we are ''bought'' by Germans, aren't we are also responsible of selling ourselves?

[Incal]

Even if that's the case, don't you think your anger is misplaced? Your country betrayed you, not Germany. Germany has no loyalties or commitments to Greece. Your country sold you out, not Germany. If your wife cheats on you, who deserves more of your venom, her or the man that screwed her? If you're a typical hot-headed Greek, probably the man, but therein lies one of biggest problems with the Greek mentality and temperament.


Bravo re.

[Leliana]

I'm a friend of Greece and of the Greek people here like dandelion with her hard-working and troubled family, Absinthe or Turkophagos, they have my full sympathy for their life situation and I understand their patriotism and rage directed at banksters, politicians and lobbyists, but attacking German diplomats who hand out billion of our German taxpayer money, including mine!!, is loathsome and a reason to cut all money transfers for an indefinite period of time. :mad: It sucks! The blame game becomes so stale.

€ ruins the European house. It doesn't bring the people together, it leads to unseen hate, conflicts and dissent on both sides. The givers hate the takers and the takers hate the givers.

[AkisGreece]

Akis, whatever Germany did, and whatever Germany owes us (because It does), that doesn't change the fact of what OUR country have done wrong. Even after this destruction by the ww2, we managed to advance, and be pretty well, didn't we?

So, about how we became now, who's fault is?
If we are ''bought'' by Germans, aren't we are also responsible of selling ourselves?

Greece under US protection had the second growth rate worldwide second only to Japan.
All of the industry was dead weak after EU directives,which were in favor of GERMAN AND FRENCH capital.

EU started as a different concept but it proved to be a machine working for Germany.

As to what Greece can do now,i propose staying in Eurozone,till it falls apart.

Greek people sold their selves as you state it,simply because after the Turkish invasion,Karamanlis the elder was hoping to find a stronger Alliance through a further connection with Germany and France.
His decision was quite succesful,and you see it by both French and Germans being opposite to the european integration of Turkey.

The gains of Eurozone for Germany outnumber the losses.

Whoever doesn't see it is obviously naive.

[AkisGreece]

I'm a friend of Greece and of the Greek people here like dandelion with her hard-working and troubled family, Absinthe or Turkophagos, they have my full sympathy for their life situation and I understand their patriotism and rage directed at banksters, politicians and lobbyists, but attacking German diplomats who hand out billion of our German taxpayer money, including mine!!, is loathsome and a reason to cut all money transfers for an indefinite period of time. :mad: It sucks! The blame game becomes so stale.

€ ruins the European house. It doesn't bring the people together, it leads to unseen hate, conflicts and dissent!

Then you should fight with all you've got to kick Greece out of the Eurozone since you consider Greeks lazy Southerners.

If i was a German this is what i would do.

[Queen B]

I'm a friend of Greece and of the Greek people here like dandelion with her hard-working and troubled family, Absinthe or Turkophagos, they have my full sympathy for their life situation and I understand their patriotism and rage directed at banksters, politicians and lobbyists, but attacking German diplomats who hand out billion of our German taxpayer money, including mine!!, is loathsome and a reason to cut all money transfers for an indefinite period of time. :mad: It sucks! The blame game becomes so stale.

Basically, its idiotic to do what they did.
If they want to attack someone, they should attack those motherfuckers that put us in the place. Why noone attacks politicians?
Maybe because they are the ones that vote them, I guess.

You can't get rid of evil if you don't find the root of it, and in this case, its those who they vote.



Greek people sold their selves as you state it,simply because after the Turkish invasion,Karamanlis the elder was hoping to find a stronger Alliance through a further connection with Germany and France.
His decision was quite succesful,and you see it by both French and Germans being opposite to the european integration of Turkey.
The gains of Eurozone for Germany outnumber the losses.
Whoever doesn't see it is obviously naive.
I didn't say that Greek people sold their selves, I said that Greece did. By that, I mean the governemt.

Blaming Germans (not that they are not at fault either), won't change the fact that we are at fault,too.

Greece signed projects just for the benefit of giving them to ''friends''. Greece made the Siemens scandal, not just Germany. Greeks voted the same fucking politicians again and again, not Germans.

[AkisGreece]

Basically, its idiotic to do what they did.
If they want to attack someone, they should attack those motherfuckers that put us in the place. Why noone attacks politicians?
Maybe because they are the ones that vote them, I guess.

You can't get rid of evil if you don't find the root of it, and in this case, its those who they vote.


I didn't say that Greek people sold their selves, I said that Greece did. By that, I mean the governemt.

Blaming Germans (not that they are not at fault either), won't change the fact that we are at fault,too.

Greece signed projects just for the benefit of giving them to ''friends''. Greece made the Siemens scandal, not just Germany. Greeks voted the same fucking politicians again and again, not Germans.



Greece are Greeks and vice versa.

Your answer to your second quote makes no sense dandi.


I'm off for the library.


I'll be on in 2 hours.

[Queen B]

Your answer to your second quote makes no sense dandi.

Simply :

You blame Germans for everything, and not Greeks/Greece for the current situation.

[Onur]

Why don't you Greeks blame Ottoman era for everything as it`s used to be and make peace within each other and with your German creditors? :)



Greeks voted the same fucking politicians again and again, not Germans.
Thats true.

Greece has been run by two familial dynasties of Papandreu and Karamanlis for several decades. If you wouldn't live through this economical crisis, i am sure you would see grandson Papandreus and Karamanlis in the government office too. It was looking like a monarchy rather than a democratic state.

[Queen B]

Why don't you Greeks blame Ottoman era for everything as it`s used to be and make peace within each other and with your German creditors? :)

Here he is again ..... :bored::picard2:

[Partizan]

:popcorn:

[Anusiya]

Παιδιά, δεν ξέρω τίποτα, πληρώνουμε την απραγεία των πολιτικών μας τα τελευταία 4-5 χρόνια. Ας μην το πάμε πιό πίσω. Αντί να έδιωχναν αυτούς τους 40-50 χιλ. βρωμιάρηδες από την αρχή, το διαιωνίζουν γιατί μετά δεν θα έχουν ρουσφετομάζα. Νιώθω απόλυτα αηδιασμένος. Μόνο αυτό να έκαναν, τώρα θα είχαμε κάποιο "χαρτί". Υποφέρουμε για 50.300...

Χώρα του φωτός τ'αρχίδια μου κουνιούνται.

[kabeiros]

Να που συμφωνούμε και σε κάτι, Anusiya. Το θέμα όμως είναι ποιοί θα εντοπίσουν και θα διώξουν αυτούς τους βρωμιάρηδες, αυτοί που τους διόρισαν?

[Petros Houhoulis]

Biting the hand that feeds you, not so wise

That wasn't even biting dear! Not even the coffee got on the consul!

[Petros Houhoulis]

Why don't you Greeks blame Ottoman era for everything as it`s used to be and make peace within each other and with your German creditors? :)



Thats true.

Greece has been run by two familial dynasties of Papandreu and Karamanlis for several decades. If you wouldn't live through this economical crisis, i am sure you would see grandson Papandreus and Karamanlis in the government office too. It was looking like a monarchy rather than a democratic state.

So speaks the representative of the nation which had more years under military rule and single party rule than democracy for the most of the 20th century...

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

:popcorn:

[kabeiros]

Siberian you will get fat if you keep eating popcorn in Greek threads:D

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Siberian you will get fat if you keep eating popcorn in Greek threads:D

Hahahaaa ,don't worry for me Komsu ,I have a lucky dna

[Graus]

Seems like our diplomats are needing protection, would be best if the Greeks would do it. The pictures would be quite nasty if our people would be forced to open fire on Greek soil. Not that I would cry a single tear for the protester scum.

I am positively suprised by this thread, I expected I would have to make some pretty nasty comments about the country but that would be unfair for the reasonable Greeks around here.

So I will do something different and talk about my country instead, the place which was obviously rebuild solely by Greeks through American cash...

There are quite a lot cultural differences, we are a lot less emotional and touchy than the average Southerner. We are slightly irritated when Greeks flip out because of a statue showing the middle finger while they dont seem to mind burning our flag and painting our representatives in Nazi uniforms. But overall we dont really care, except for one thing and thats where our anger, sense of betrayal and resentment steams from. In the end its all about the money but its a little more than simply being cheap, we payed quite a lot for all kinds of different projects after all but its different this time. Not only are we taking incredible high risk with those loans we are probably not going to see again but also the stability of the currency as a whole is at stake. And thats something we dont take lightly, around here. We lost our currency twice within a little over to decades and the people had to start over from the scratch. We equate devaluation with grim povererty and we kinda rightly do so, since most Germans are rather saving their money instead of investing or wasting it. One of the reasons we arent that happy with our undervalued currency to begin with. The same currency which was forced upon us by the French.
You may accuse us of malice and being power hungry all you want but the truth is we didnt seek those power, we learned the hard way its simply not worth it. We were forced to take this role because nobody else could. And we are saying what the net contributors think, its not just us but the others are quite happy to let us do the talking.
Overall its not like we dont care about your suffering but we are also convinced you wouldnt change your ways without it.

[Queen B]

I am positively suprised by this thread, I expected I would have to make some pretty nasty comments about the country but that would be unfair for the reasonable Greeks around here.
Why should you? You were expecting us to say they did well?
Most of THOSE protesters are leftists that have never worked in their life, and found a reason to react in something in their lives.
Attacking him won't change neither the situation of our country, nor what happened.
And if there is German official/politician at fault, is not him, but others,to start with.
And even in that case, we still loads and loads of OUR politicians, to attackk :cool:


There are quite a lot cultural differences, we are a lot less emotional and touchy than the average Southerner. We are slightly irritated when Greeks flip out because of a statue showing the middle finger while they dont seem to mind burning our flag and painting our representatives in Nazi uniforms. But overall we dont really care, except for one thing and thats where our anger, sense of betrayal and resentment steams from. In the end its all about the money but its a little more than simply being cheap, we payed quite a lot for all kinds of different projects after all but its different this time. Not only are we taking incredible high risk with those loans we are probably not going to see again but also the stability of the currency as a whole is at stake. And thats something we dont take lightly, around here. We lost our currency twice within a little over to decades and the people had to start over from the scratch.
You are quite wrong in that.
Your country has a fare share of Greek problems as well.
Projects taken by bribery (see siemens scandal)
Selling faulty military equipment in enormous prices (see Akis Tsohatzopoulos) ,etc.
Plus,the loans have benefited Germany (so far, at least)

No, I am not accusing you, neither passing you our problems, at the end Greece was the one that agreed on those and went through them, I am just trying to let you know, that things are neither as victimized as German media try to portray.

[Anusiya]

Seems like our diplomats are needing protection, would be best if the Greeks would do it. The pictures would be quite nasty if our people would be forced to open fire on Greek soil. Not that I would cry a single tear for the protester scum.


I welcome your observation that you were rebuilt through dollars and Mediterranean and Yugo labor.

But in this case it was just a coffee. And I should say that your representative handled it pretty well. He called it "a special kind of coffee invitation". No need to take this further. We are not taking up arms and starting a guerrilla warfare. :p

The problem lies in the pathetic excuses of leaders we have in Europe. They went through a ten hour discussion yesterday and still no outcome. I say screw this.

But I know why the north doesn't want us to go. They think in case we will, we will become a regional power, able to subsidize services to and from the Middle East and get over the debt in less than a decade. You want the junkie alive, but you still want him a junkie. I can live with a Hyundai. Volkswagens can wait.

[Graus]

Why should you? You were expecting us to say they did well?
Most of THOSE protesters are leftists that have never worked in their life, and found a reason to react in something in their lives.
Attacking him won't change neither the situation of our country, nor what happened.
And if there is German official/politician at fault, is not him, but others,to start with.
And even in that case, we still loads and loads of OUR politicians, to attackk :cool:

You are quite wrong in that.
Your country has a fare share of Greek problems as well.
Projects taken by bribery (see siemens scandal)
Selling faulty military equipment in enormous prices (see Akis Tsohatzopoulos) ,etc.
Plus,the loans have benefited Germany (so far, at least)

No, I am not accusing you, neither passing you our problems, at the end Greece was the one that agreed on those and went through them, I am just trying to let you know, that things are neither as victimized as German media try to portray.


With all due respect, the bribery wasnt really a problem for us. We dont have that much corruption inside of Germany. However bribing certain groups of foreigners was legal in my country. You could even credit it to your taxes. We assumed certain cultures are corrupt and thats the way you are doing business with them. Bribing inside of Greece wasnt illegal, while it would have been illegal in Canada, the Netherlands, Sweden etc.We didnt bring the corruption, we simply adapted. China and America use their secret agencies to spy for their economy and we did, what basically everyone else did but where a little bit too open about it. I am actually more pissed with the low standard of the products but I guess if one side already knows the other side will take it anyway, they will not bring their A- or even B-game.

The loans are a high risk investment, one we are probably not going to see again. And one more thing: we dont want this loan to be easy or cheap for you. It has to hurt, otherwise you wont change. We are not making many friends with those attitude but its actually more like our way of showing "tough love" than trying to benefit from your misery.

[Queen B]

With all due respect, the bribery wasnt really a problem for us. We dont have that much corruption inside of Germany. However bribing certain groups of foreigners was legal in my country. You could even credit it to your taxes. We assumed certain cultures are corrupt and thats the way you are doing business with them. Bribing inside of Greece wasnt illegal, while it would have been illegal in Canada, the Netherlands, Sweden etc.We didnt bring the corruption, we simply adapted. China and America use their secret agencies to spy for their economy and we did, what basically everyone else did but where a little bit too open about it. I am actually more pissed with the low standard of the products but I guess if one side already knows the other side will take it anyway, they will not bring their A- or even B-game.
I am not talking about being legal or illegal, but about your country having a fair share in our economic problems.
And even if it is legal to Germany, that still doesn't make it morally acceptable.
Still, the big fault is not yours, but us. If you feed the junkie, the junkie is responsible for starting drugs in the first place, right ?



The loans are a high risk investment, one we are probably not going to see again.
So far, we are taking more and more loans to pay back the previous loans, and pay the interest. Almost nothing has gone in to Greek state, so , so far your ''investment'' goes pretty good.
Plus, you already making good deals in Greece, by having good deals in our desperation. (Sun energy, etc)


And one more thing: we dont want this loan to be easy or cheap for you. It has to hurt, otherwise you wont change. We are not making many friends with those attitude but its actually more like our way of showing "tough love" than trying to benefit from your misery.
Quite the contrary. So far you are benefiting from misery.

None of your comitees asked for consification of the properties of some -already involved in briberies - politicians. None of your comitees have asked for consification of all the money that are deposited in foreign banks (aka LaGarde List). In fact, this LaGarde list was somehow dissapeared.
On the other hand, your comitees asked for more taxes, not to the politicians, or people related to them, or billionaires, but to normal people.

What your comitees does, is to keep THOSE responsible for this mess, keep doing what they did, and suck the blood from -already - poor people.

[Anusiya]

It has to hurt, otherwise you wont change. We are not making many friends with those attitude but its actually more like our way of showing "tough love" than trying to benefit from your misery.

We don't want to change. We want to progress as we are. Huge German corporations are no match for individual Greek entrepreneurs. You learned the hard way and you became westernized. We already were and hurting nobody. Ask a Norwegian what he believes about Greek maritime business.

[Graus]

I believe a Norwegian would be quite jealous of the tax rate of your shipowner just like myself. You seem to have a fundamental misconception about the German economy, we are the country of "hidden champions" not those of big corporations. Its all about the businesses of the middle class in Germany. You cant grow within the Eurozone the way you are. You have to adapt or leave otherwise you wont get out of this vicious circle.

I am not saying we are without fault, we did questionable things and probably still do but the discussion is mostly used by your politicians at home to deflect their own blame. And its not going to help you in the long run, qute the contrary.
I am all for taxing your rich elites accordingly as are pretty much all Germans but the problem is we are talking about the same guys we have to work with to solve the crisis. Our power in Greece has its limits and unfortunately we have to be realistic.
We offered you help in building working bureaucratic structures, especially when it comes to collecting taxes but your rich elites werent exactly happy with it.

[vdkn67]

As I am new here, just have read whole thread, and must notice there are much more sekoliaras than one, few months ago mentioned by some Athens journalist.