Pomaks of Bulgaria; "Bulgarians are the enslavers of Rhodobe mountains"

[Onur]

I just saw this article in the Bulgarian media. It appears like the Pomaks of Bulgaria issued a book about the incidents happened in Bulgaria after Balkan wars.

They describe christian Bulgarian reign in the Pomak populated Rhodobe mountains as an occupation and they say that the christians was the ruthless enslavers of the region.

They give some details about the incidents happened after the war like massacres and tortures upon Pomak population and forcing them to convert into christianity. The author of the book, Ismen Redzhepov claims that Bulgarian christians committed genocide upon Pomaks and today's Bulgarian statesmen are continuing to conduct some kind of policy of "ethno-religious cleansing" of the region of the Rhodope Mountains "through economic and spiritual genocide".

The author also claims that the Pomaks was never christians before islam but they were the descendants of tengrist Bulgars who fled to the mountains because they refused to be christians when it started to became dominant religion in the region.

According to the article, the distribution of book has been immediately banned in Bulgaria.

You can read from here;

http://www.novinite.com/media/images/2012-11/photo_verybig_144706.jpg

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=144706

[Onur]

I don't know if Pomaks are the descendants of tengrist Bulgar Turks or not but it`s quite known that when the Bulgar king accepted christian faith in late 9th century, the tengrist Bulgars refused to be christian and they started uprising against the king under the leadership of his son, the prince. The king was failing to suppress the uprising of his son and eventually the Byzantine emperor sent his armies to Bulgaria back then. They massacred the rebels, including the king`s own son and forcefully established christianity in the region in the end.

[Insuperable]

I don't know if Pomaks are the descendants of tengrist Bulgar Turks or not but it`s quite known that when the Bulgar king accepted christian faith in late 9th century, the tengrist Bulgars refused to be christian and they started uprising against the king under the leadership of his son, the prince. The king was failing to suppress the uprising of his son and eventually the Byzantine emperor sent his armies to Bulgaria back then. They massacred the rebels, including the king`s own son and forcefully established christianity in the region in the end.

Bosniaks think that Pomaks are Bosniak in origin.

[Archduke]

I fail to open the link.

[morski]

Pomaks = circumcised Bulgarians.

/thred

[morski]

I don't know if Pomaks are the descendants of tengrist Bulgar Turks or not but it`s quite known that when the Bulgar king accepted christian faith in late 9th century, the tengrist Bulgars refused to be christian and they started uprising against the king under the leadership of his son, the prince. The king was failing to suppress the uprising of his son and eventually the Byzantine emperor sent his armies to Bulgaria back then. They massacred the rebels, including the king`s own son and forcefully established christianity in the region in the end.

Bah! Full of shit as always.


Vladimir is mainly remembered for his attempt to eliminate Christianity in Bulgaria and the re-institution of Paganism. This event is written of by Constantine of Preslav in his Didactic Gospel. Vladimir started the process of destroying the Christian temples and persecuting of the clergymen, because he regarded them as instruments of Byzantium and its efforts to influence the Bulgarian kingdom. However, Vladimir Rasate's actions were not well received by the population and the aristocracy, and he was only supported by a few of the boyars. Therefore, in 893, Boris I left the monastery he inhabited and dispossessed his son. He blinded Vladimir and put him in a dungeon, where his trails vanish.

After coping with Vladimir's uprising against Christianity, Boris placed his third son Simeon on the Bulgarian throne during the Council of Preslav which was a direct consequence of Vladimir-Rasate's ill attempt to restore paganism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_of_Bulgaria

[morski]

Bulgarian christians committed genocide upon Pomaks


The rebel town was reported to the Turkish authorities and on April 30, 1876, 8,000 Bashi-bazouk, mainly Pomaks, led by Ahmet Aga from Barutin surrounded the town.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7] At that time the Pomaks were a part of the Ottoman Muslim Millet. After a first battle, the men from Batak decided to negotiate with Ahmet Aga. He promised them the withdrawal of his troops under the condition that Batak disarmed. After the rebels had laid down their weapons, the Bashi-bazouk attacked the defenseless population. The majority of the victims were beheaded[8]

According to the most sources, around 5,000 people were massacred in Batak alone.[9] The total number of victims in the April uprising according to most estimates around 15,000,[10][11] which is supported by Eugene Schuyler's report, published in Daily News, according to which at least 15,000 persons were killed during the April Uprising in addition to 36 villages in three districts being buried.[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batak_massacre

Git Burda, Poturnak! Ay siktir!

[Bugarash 1893]

The role of Pomaks cant be seen only one sided.

Some Pomaks served the ottomans.
Some were good bulgarian nationalists.

Some Pomaks today declare to be turks.
Some declare to be bulgarians.

[Hurrem sultana]

Bosniaks think that Pomaks are Bosniak in origin.

we do not:rolleyes: we actually look down on the pomak and torbesh populations

[Insuperable]

we do not:rolleyes: we actually look down on the pomak and torbesh populations

I heard that Bosniak historians claimed that. In any case I do not care.

[Hurrem sultana]

croatian nationalists spread a lot of bullshit

[ioan assen]

Bosniaks think that Pomaks are Bosniak in origin.
What does Bosniak origin mean? Up till Yugo they thought they were islamized Serbs and Croats... Last I heard they were Illyrian... So Pomaks cant possibly be Bosniak since there were no Serbs, Croats and Illyrians in southern Bulgaria...

[Bugarash 1893]

PATHETIC !!!!!

[Behemot]

Bosniaks think that Pomaks are Bosniak in origin.
:confused:
Nope,never heard it till you wrote it

[Bugarash 1893]

I just saw this article in the Bulgarian media. It appears like the Pomaks of Bulgaria issued a book about the incidents happened in Bulgaria after Balkan wars.

They describe christian Bulgarian reign in the Pomak populated Rhodobe mountains as an occupation and they say that the christians was the ruthless enslavers of the region.

They give some details about the incidents happened after the war like massacres and tortures upon Pomak population and forcing them to convert into christianity. The author of the book, Ismen Redzhepov claims that Bulgarian christians committed genocide upon Pomaks and today's Bulgarian statesmen are continuing to conduct some kind of policy of "ethno-religious cleansing" of the region of the Rhodope Mountains "through economic and spiritual genocide".

The author also claims that the Pomaks was never christians before islam but they were the descendants of tengrist Bulgars who fled to the mountains because they refused to be christians when it started to became dominant religion in the region.

According to the article, the distribution of book has been immediately banned in Bulgaria.

You can read from here;

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=144706


POMAKS MY ASS!

That book is nothing more but typical twisted minded turkish propaganda brought under the order of the sick turko brains from Ankara,descendant of the ottomans who raped the Bulgarian nation on all fields for 5 centures,propaganda brought straight from the depths of Anatolia.

Another example of the dirty turko-neo ottomanic mentality working behind Bulgaria's back!

If Bulgaria wasnt runned by poor pathetic souls someones head will roll for this.

[morski]

If Bulgaria wasnt runned by poor pathetic souls someones head will roll for this.

Cutting heads off is their way. Some jail-time will suffice.:)

[east]

Few moths ago I was in town Yakoruda. The people there are mostly Mohammedans. Interestingly, they communicate with each other on difficult to understand archaic dialect of Bulgarian. For me, these people are Bulgarians separated by Christians for a long time, but kept his tongue, even archaic appearance.

[Insuperable]

What does Bosniak origin mean? Up till Yugo they thought they were islamized Serbs and Croats... Last I heard they were Illyrian... So Pomaks cant possibly be Bosniak since there were no Serbs, Croats and Illyrians in southern Bulgaria...

Not even they know it. As Dilberth said they change ethnicity every 20 years or so.:laugh:

[Onur]

Few moths ago I was in town Yakoruda. The people there are mostly Mohammedans. Interestingly, they communicate with each other on difficult to understand archaic dialect of Bulgarian.
Thats what Pomaks in Turkey always told me.

They say that your current Bulgarian tongue is artificial one created after 1878 by the Russians but Pomak tongue is largely unaffected from russification. They consider Pomak tongue is the old true Bulgarian.

I believe this because i read several articles about how Russians altered Bulgarian tongue while trying to eliminate 10.000+ Turkish words from Bulgarian language.

[morski]

Thats what Pomaks in Turkey always told me.

They say that your current Bulgarian tongue is artificial one created after 1878 by the Russians but Pomak tongue is largely unaffected from russification. They consider Pomak tongue is the old true Bulgarian.

I believe this because i read several articles about how Russians altered Bulgarian while trying to eliminate 10.000+ Turkish words from Bulgarian language.

That part is wrong.


XHi-8tEZAME

That song is in Rupski dialect. The dialect of both the Pomaks and the Christian Bulgarians from the Rodopa mt.

The Pomaks in Mesta and Struma valeys speak different dialects, as well as the ones living in the Central Balkan mt. area.

[Albion]

It's a shame that the Pomaks, Bosniaks and (some of the) Albanians haven't been Christianised.

[Hurrem sultana]

It's a shame that the Pomaks, Bosniaks and (some of the) Albanians haven't been Christianised.

lol today when even western europeans are leaving christianity you want us to become christians?

[Albion]

lol today when even western europeans are leaving christianity you want us to become christians?

Yes. Because even secular peoples are shaped by morals and beliefs from their former religion.
It's not like Christianity declined and everything from it went with it. Western Europeans are basically Christians that no longer worship god. The deity has become detached, but the basic fundamentals of the religion are still ingrained into our societies.

This is why I have my doubts about "secular" former Muslim countries. Turkey is supposed to be secular and we see Islam gaining strength there, and in some aspects it is reverting to a more traditional Islamic society.
So yes, you have to be Christian and then become secular. Secular Muslim countries and secular Christian ones are not the same, they're still shaped by their former religions.

I don't aspect you'll understand, but never mind.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Bosniaks think that Pomaks are Bosniak in origin.

No we don't but we would like that they embrace Bosniak identity, just as we would like that ethnic Russian, Polish, Ukrainian and other Slavic (or European) Muslims to embrace it as well.

[Hurrem sultana]

No we don't but we would like that they embrace Bosniak identity, just as we would like that ethnic Russian, Polish, Ukrainian and other Slavic (or European) Muslims to embrace it as well.

:picard1::D

[Behemot]

No we don't but we would like that they embrace Bosniak identity, just as we would like that ethnic Russian, Polish, Ukrainian and other Slavic (or European) Muslims to embrace it as well.
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Insuperable]

No we don't but we would like that they embrace Bosniak identity, just as we would like that ethnic Russian, Polish, Ukrainian and other Slavic (or European) Muslims to embrace it as well.

Zar postoji skupina Muslimana unutar tih naroda kao etnička skupina tih naroda?

[mysticism]

No we don't but we would like that they embrace Bosniak identity, just as we would like that ethnic Russian, Polish, Ukrainian and other Slavic (or European) Muslims to embrace it as well.

The child trying to be the father's father :D:picard2:

[Hurrem sultana]

Zar postoji skupina Muslimana unutar tih naroda kao etnička skupina tih naroda?

kako da ne

[Sultan Suleiman]

I heard that Bosniak historians claimed that. In any case I do not care.

So why did you point it out if you don't care :rolleyes:

[Sultan Suleiman]

Zar postoji skupina Muslimana unutar tih naroda kao etnička skupina tih naroda?

There are enough Russian converts to fill up the Sarajevo canton by themselves. Many of them have skills I would fucking give tens of thousands of Bosniaks in diaspora in exchange for their loyalties.

While there are few pockets of Muslim Poles and Ukes (which are not mixed in with Tatars) which I would welcome with open arms.

[Sultan Suleiman]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


:picard1::D

Both of you are a product of Muslim migrants which never lived in pre-1463 Bosnia so I would appreciate it if you would keep it down :)

[mysticism]

So why did you point it out if you don't care :rolleyes:

Wait, Pomaks aren't bosniaks? Surely Torbesh are though right?

[Sultan Suleiman]

Wait, Pomaks aren't bosniaks? Surely Torbesh are though right?

Hope that as many of them would accept it the golden lilies on the blue shield as their national emblem.

We Bosniaks have tradition of assimilating European Muslims which were shunned by their co-nationals. We can thank most of Tuzla's population to Magyars, Poles and fragments of Njemci, while most of Krajina's population to Slavonian Croats and Magyars again :thumb001:

[mysticism]

Hope that as many of them would accept it the golden lilies on the blue shield as their national emblem.

We Bosniaks have tradition of assimilating European Muslims which were shunned by their co-nationals. We can thank most of Tuzla's population to Magyars, Poles and fragments of Njemci, while most of Krajina's population to Slavonian Croats and Magyars again :thumb001:

Golden lilies?

Is Serbia Bosniak?

http://mountainsageblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/serbian-coat-of-arms2.png

Yeah you're right, Bosniaks are the forefathers of the united nations. Such beautiful multiculturalism, Nelson Mandela would be proud. *tear*

[Sultan Suleiman]

Golden lilies?


I don't see a blue shield there :rolleyes:

Or that you are European :D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Flag_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina_%281992-1998%29.svg/707px-Flag_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina_%281992-1998%29.svg.png

And I don't see why are you making fun out of it? Serbian ethnogenesis today consists of ethnic Serbs (proper) from historical White Serbia, Illyirian remnants, Albanians, Vlachs, Bulgarians, Greeks and occasional stray Germanic tribes.

[Insuperable]

So why did you point it out if you don't care :rolleyes:

I wanted to see what you will tell me. I heard that your historians claimed that. You said they did not. End of story.



There are enough Russian converts to fill up the Sarajevo canton by themselves. Many of them have skills I would fucking give tens of thousands of Bosniaks in diaspora in exchange for their loyalties.

While there are few pockets of Muslim Poles and Ukes (which are not mixed in with Tatars) which I would welcome with open arms.

I doubt that Russians would degrade themselves. I doubt there that many ethnic Russian muslims.

[Sultan Suleiman]

I wanted to see what you will tell me. I heard that your historians claimed that. You said they did not. End of story.

What historians? Post me few of their names or are you just doing one of your Vaticanesq pull-it-out-of-rectum tricks, honestly wouldn't surprise me.


I doubt that Russians would degrade themselves. I doubt there that many ethnic Russian muslims.

Nearly 800K ethnic converts mate who need a home where they will be surrounded by people similar to them.

[Insuperable]

What historians? Post me few of their names or are you just doing one of your Vaticanesq pull-it-out-of-rectum tricks, honestly wouldn't surprise me.

Someone on this forum some time ago said that to you and you said nothing in return and I thought that is because you agreed with him.

[Mraz]

What does Bosniak origin mean? Up till Yugo they thought they were islamized Serbs and Croats... Last I heard they were Illyrian... So Pomaks cant possibly be Bosniak since there were no Serbs, Croats and Illyrians in southern Bulgaria...


Never in Bosnia people called themselves Serb or Croats, ask any older Bosnian, it became a fantasy once Muslim nationality was adopted, our ennemies can say it's false, we all know they're Catholic and Orthodox Bosniaks, but we let them be whatever they want because we aren't complexed as they are.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Someone on this forum some time ago said that to you and you said nothing in return and I thought that is because you agreed with him.

Yeah sure... As if I would miss an opportunity to grind an idiot to dust, no matter his ethnicity.

But could you find that post please? The first time I heard this was coming from you several months ago. :rolleyes:

[Saruman]

Hope that as many of them would accept it the golden lilies on the blue shield as their national emblem.

We Bosniaks have tradition of assimilating European Muslims which were shunned by their co-nationals. We can thank most of Tuzla's population to Magyars, Poles and fragments of Njemci, while most of Krajina's population to Slavonian Croats and Magyars again :thumb001:

Some refugees from for ex. Hungary departed to Anatolia, others to Bosnia etc.. There are some problems here. First if most Tuzlaks were Hungarians and Poles they would have been clearly lighter than Northern Croats, which they are not, so taking that claim as truthful means also assuming they're at least 1/3 Turks, to account for their features, but ofc more likely that input was not as strong.

Secondly as we mention those inputs you're conveniently forgetting another one: anatolian, that a number of Bosniaks claim, and even inflate. For ex. some Serbian author did once a study of Cazin/Western Krajina (where many are from Croatia proper) and by taking their own traditions as benchmark he found that even majority of them were from Anatolia, which can't really be the case, so as I have also monitored in some cases, some Bosniaks will invent non-European ancestry in order to distance themselves further from "infidels" I guess.

I don't think many muslim east/west Slavs go to Bosnia today, but some Turks seem to. Not that long ago I saw a dwarfish very dark Turkish man holding hands with a Bosniak hijab wearing woman in Sarajevo, it was a pathetic sight, he didn't even speak our language, man being shorter than woman, ugly man with a decent woman... But that's where (at least traditional and existant) Islam leads to. You know after Ottomans departed many bosnians departed for Turkey where by now their northern European genetic component surely must have diminished, making them genetically on avg. probably "borderline" European, rather than "clearly European".

[Sultan Suleiman]

Some refugees from for ex. Hungary departed to Anatolia, others to Bosnia etc.. There are some problems here. First if most Tuzlaks were Hungarians and Poles they would have been clearly lighter than Northern Croats, which they are not,

Actually they are just that. Bunch of Hungarians, Slavs which we referred as Poles and Njemci which for the last 400 years mixed with the Bosnian natives.
Tuzla was literally depopulated by a massive plague in 1608 which wiped out 2/3 of the local population. But demographic structure of Tuzla just in matter of decades rebounded, meaning we imported Muslim citizens from collapsing Hungarian front. It isn't that a much of a stretch to get to that conclusion.


I don't think many muslim east/west Slavs go to Bosnia today

Well not today, but one day I hope they will be considering Bosnia as their potential homeland. And not just them, there are plenty of Scandos, Anglos, hell even the Njemci which feel isolated by their co nationals and don't want to give in to the unproductive brown blob which constitutes most of Sunnis and Shiias infesting Europe right now. Their talents will be greatly appreciated here and new blood which will strengthen us was always welcomed here.

And more conservative Sunni you are less are you going to mix with other Sunnis or anyone else out of your tribe.

[Bugarash 1893]

Pomaks nothing...

I call the mod to change the title.

This propaganda can come only from one direction,from the sick turko brains from Anatolia.