Albanians, Albanesi?

[Harry Potter]

What's your opinion about the Albanians? Opinione su gli Albanesi? Good, bad, please also comment and explain why.

[Prince Carlo]

Albo women have big boobs.

[Harry Potter]

Albo women have big boobs.

Really?:confused:

I live in Albania and never noticed that, I would actually say that that's the biggest problem of Albanian women, they got no big boobs.

[mysticism]

Albanian women have tiny boobs. That's my problem.

[AkisGreece]

What's your opinion about the Albanians? Opinione su gli Albanesi? Good, bad, please also comment and explain why.

Well i cannot speak for the whole Albanian nation but for the people that i've met.

They are not that bad as they present them,there are decent and hard working people amidst them.



One thing that i don't like is the demonisation of Greece amidst them.
Burning Greek flags and demand to annex Greek soil to Albania might lead your country into very dangerous paths.
With attitudes like that,you could make the Greek state to demand Albanian soil of Southern Albania....

And in that case,no US army will help you like they did in Kosovo.

[Anusiya]

They are ok. Kind of naive in their majority. It's just that over 60% of their population haven't got a clue about anything. At least younger ones are more educated.

[Strawberry]

I think Albanian men have a bad rep in the UK.. Many people have told me to stay away from albanian men, even albanians themselves say this..Why? When I was working, the albanian security guards wouldnt let any boys talk to me, they would threaten them if they did lol... So from my opinion albanian men are a bit protective? i dont know, ive only met a few..

[Harry Potter]

Well i cannot speak for the whole Albanian but for the people that i've met.

That's obvious, we can't know everyone.


They are not that bad as they present them,

The medias don't care about the truth anymore, they just obey to their masters.


there are decent and hard working people amidst them.

Obviously, they're cleaning the roads of Greece. No Greek would ever do that job.


One thing that i don't like is the demonisation of Greece amidst them.
Burning Greek flags and demand to annex Greek soil to Albania might lead you country into very dangerous paths.

Lets say that even in Albania we have the Golden Dawn of Albanian ethnicity.


With attitudes like that,you could make the Greek state to demand Albanian soil of Southern Albania....

That's going to happen soon. The govern of Albania is not democratically elected and therefore doesn't care about the will of the people. Has already tried to give parts of S.Albania to Greece and it will, believe me. Albanians are pussies, no one is standing to kill the traitors that are ruling the country.
I guess you have heard from the medias about a treaty to give parts of S.Albania to Greece. Sali Berisha the actual dictator of Albania(Salistan) is trying hard to do that and he will, soon...


And in that case,no US army will help you like they did in Kosovo.

The USA didn't helped Albania nor the Albanians in Kosovo. They don't give a damn about the ethnic Albanians. In Kosovo they(NATO) were forced to intervene because they wanted to remove a dictator(Milosevic) who was also Pro-Russian. They intervened even because Milosevic was removing the most basic human rights and because he was doing ethnic cleansing. And finally you're right, the USA would never help Albania in a problem against Greece. They're kissing your back since ever, frankly I personally believe that the USA is trying to help you getting S.Albania. Hey this is the USA, they care only about themselves and their pockets, they got no friends they're mercenaries(in the political context, not the simple folks).

[Anusiya]

I guess you have heard from the medias about a treaty to give parts of S.Albania to Greece. Sali Berisha the actual dictator of Albania(Salistan) is trying hard to do that and he will, soon...


Yet another clue that proves my theory that your Gheg masters are eager to send you away from their territory and control you at the same time. It is true however that the Tosk element has many times asked the annexation of Southern Albania to Greece. And naturally this never materialized due to the Austro-Hungarians and the Turks.

[AkisGreece]

Dear Papoutsis,


I will only comment that after 1987 Greek state officially took back the Casus Belli against Albania for the occupation of Southern Albania(you see that i call it with the way Albanians name it,not to provoke anyone).

UCK fought in Kosovo with no result at all.
The Americans wanted to establish a military base at this geopolitical hotspot.
And they obviously helped you...Albania had no serious tactical army to face the Serb one.


Anyway,you have a conspiracy-way of thinking towards Greece,which is obviously naive.
No Greek is loosing his time on making plans to conquer Albania.
We have ourselves more serious problems to face.

[Harry Potter]

They are ok. Kind of naive in their majority. It's just that over 60% of their population haven't got a clue about anything. At least younger ones are more educated.

Wrong, things are getting worse. I live in here so I know. The dictatorial-ruling party the 'Democratic' party is forcing the youth to join the youth section of this party. Those who join it get super votes at school, those who don't are living in a hell. This happens in the high schools mostly, Petro Nini Luarasi high school in Tirana, Qemal Stafa high school in Tirana and others are famous for it. Teachers are not elected on personal abilities but for political ties with the dictatorship. I know a girl who has all votes like 10(A+), I asked her if she can tell me the alphabet of the Albanian language or at least tell me what's the shape of this planet, she said they don't teach anymore these things in High School. I was horrified, then I asked around and I was told what was going on on the scholastic system of Albania, it's a tragedy and entire generation burned from the mafia dictatorship.


I think Albanian men have a bad rep in the UK.. Many people have told me to stay away from albanian men, even albanians themselves say this..Why? When I was working, the albanian security guards wouldnt let any boys talk to me, they would threaten them if they did lol... So from my opinion albanian men are a bit protective? i dont know, ive only met a few..

I recommend you the same, better stay away from them. Albanian men have a serious problem with the gender equality.

[Anusiya]

@AkisGreece

No, I believe he actually is much more moderate than some here... I frankly have debated with some very moderate ones, most of them are from the south though.

[AkisGreece]

Yet another clue that proves my theory that your Gheg masters are eager to send you away from their territory and control you at the same time. It is true however that the Tosk element has many times asked the annexation of Southern Albania to Greece. And naturally this never materialized due to the Austro-Hungarians and the Turks.

Due to Italians is the correct answer mostly.
Austro-Hungarians had a word on the Albanian issue to counterbalance their back then loss of Bosnia.
And Turkey was not existing back then.
Only its predecessor,the Ottoman Empire.

[Harry Potter]

Yet another clue that proves my theory that your Gheg masters are eager to send you away from their territory and control you at the same time. It is true however that the Tosk element has many times asked the annexation of Southern Albania to Greece. And naturally this never materialized due to the Austro-Hungarians and the Turks.

I am mixed, Geg+Tosk, Berisha is not a Geg, to be Geg you have to be Albanian. No Albanian would sell his homeland, Berisha is doing that. Maybe he's Bosnian, Nasinci, Roma or whatever, he's no Albanian.

Show me one unique reference that the Tosk "element" has asked to join Greece? Tosks are much more anti-Greek than the Gegs, Gegs tend to be more anti-Serb and doesn't care too much about Greece.


Dear Papoutsis,


I will only comment that after 1987 Greek state officially took back the Casus Belli against Albania for the occupation of Southern Albania(you see that i call it with the way Albanians name it,not to provoke anyone).

As far as I know the "war law" still exists. You can call it North Epirus, no problem, it is North Epirus geographically and historically. Just the nationalists and the fools have a problem with that. Since every Albanian newspaper uses the words Northern Epirus, it's obvious that no normal person cares too much.


UCK fought in Kosovo with no result at all.
The Americans wanted to establish a military base at this geopolitical hotspot.
And they obviously helped you...

They didn't helped Kosovo nor the ethnic Albanians. They opposed Milosevic and his pro-Russia ideas.


Albania had no serious tactical army to face the Serb one.

Albania stayed neutral to the war. Only NATO and Serbia fought.


Anyway,you have a conspiracy-way of thinking towards Greece,which is obviously naive.
No Greek is loosing his time on making plans to conquer Albania.
We have ourselves more serious problems to face.

Never heard of the recent attempts that Berisha is doing to give territories to Greece? Try to Google it, no conspiracy here, but treaties signed by both sides publicly.


@AkisGreece

No, I believe he actually is much more moderate than some here... I frankly have debated with some very moderate ones, most of them are from the south though.

The 'moderates'(people with a brain) aren't Gegs nor Tosks, it's about having a brain and USING it. There are smart Gegs and smart Tosks. Sure the Tosks seems to be more educated, because the communist regime left the Gegs in miserable conditions, the Tosks were favored on anything, while Gegs were getting poorer and poorer everyday. Tosks got a lot of knowledge during that dark period, Gegs were barely allowed to get educated.

[AkisGreece]

How old are you Papoutsis?

[Harry Potter]

How old are you Papoutsis?

30+, why?

[Anusiya]

I am mixed, Geg+Tosk, Berisha is not a Geg, to be Geg you have to be Albanian. No Albanian would sell his homeland...

He is a Gheg love it or not, let's leave the patriotic notes and stick to a more elaborate discussion.


Show me one unique reference that the Tosk "element" has asked to join Greece? Tosks are much more anti-Greek than the Gegs, Gegs tend to be more anti-Serb and doesn't care too much about Greece.


Several Tosk villages during the 1910's had accepted the Korfu agreement, and they weren't Greek at all. They just felt more alligned to the Greek element and felt they could prosper better. I am not in favor of border change and irridentism, it's just a fact.



Never heard of the recent attempts that Berisha is doing to give territories to Greece? Try to Google it, no conspiracy here, but treaties signed by both sides publicly.

No, nothing. What would we do with pieces of rocky mountains? :confused: Let me guess, oil? (again? :D)


Sure the Tosks seems to be more educated, because the communist regime left the Gegs in miserable conditions, the Tosks were favored on anything, while Gegs were getting poorer and poorer everyday. Tosks got a lot of knowledge during that dark period, Gegs were barely allowed to get educated.

I have been told that both Ghegs and Tosks hate the communist regime, so nothing new here. Ghegs and Tosks are two distinct peoples with different geopolitical views in the region. Perhaps they would be better off if they parted ways.

[dralos]

it would be better if chameria goes back to albania

[Anusiya]

it would be better if chameria goes back to albania

How about we fund a school in Cumanovo so that you all get to learn proper letters and call it a day? :D

[dralos]

How about we fund a school in Cumanovo so that you all get to learn proper letters and call it a day? :D
says the colonist from anatolia who thinks he has anything to do with the ancient greeks

[Harry Potter]

He is a Gheg love it or not, let's leave the patriotic notes and stick to a more elaborate discussion.

No one is talking about patriotism, the argument was treason. No Albanian would ever sell his homeland and he's doing that. HE'S NOT AN ALBANIAN.


Several Tosk villages during the 1910's had accepted the Korfu agreement, and they weren't Greek at all. They just felt more alligned to the Greek element and felt they could prosper better. I am not in favor of border change and irridentism, it's just a fact.


You got any evidence on this "fact"?

And also, do you realize that the Corfu agreement was just a piece of paper signed a few days before the WWI signed by a German impostor(who was ruling Albania without the peoples' will) and a Greek diplomat? You realize that it was never applied? Do you realize that Zografos and his buddies were so weak that they ended up arrested by the POLICE?


No, nothing. What would we do with pieces of rocky mountains? Let me guess, oil? (again? )


It's still territorial supremacism.


I have been told that both Ghegs and Tosks hate the communist regime, so nothing new here. Ghegs and Tosks are two distinct peoples with different geopolitical views in the region. Perhaps they would be better off if they parted ways.

Yes right the Albanians should split, but some Bulgarians, Albanians, Romanians and Turks of Eastern Orthodox Faith should stay in the same country and also claim to be the ancient Greeks...:picard2:

[Queen B]

The Albanians I have met fit in two categories.
They are either very kind, very polite and very hardworking or they are either very rude, uncivlized, sexists and lazy.
Its kinda strange, like black and white.
I m pretty sure that Albanians IN Albania are different, and more in the middle, I guess it has to do with those that migrated here.
In the internet, its more like it. Albanians that live in Albania, are down-to-earth,polite and educated, while the ones that don't live there, fit in the one category I mentioned, except 1-2 individuals (speaking about apricity)

[Grizzly]

The Albanians I have met fit in two categories.
They are either very kind, very polite and very hardworking or they are either very rude, uncivlized, sexists and lazy.
Its kinda strange, like black and white.
I m pretty sure that Albanians IN Albania are different, and more in the middle, I guess it has to do with those that migrated here.
In the internet, its more like it. Albanians that live in Albania, are down-to-earth,polite and educated, while the ones that don't live there, fit in the one category I mentioned, except 1-2 individuals (speaking about apricity)

lol, you shouldn't use the internet to form opinions on people. It's the internet..

[Queen B]

lol, you shouldn't use the internet to form opinions on people. It's the internet..

Τhat's why I first and mostly spoke about people who I have MET.
I only talked about those I met at internet in the last 3 lines

[Grizzly]

Τhat's why I first and mostly spoke about people who I have MET.
I only talked about those I met at internet in the last 3 lines

Gotchya.

[Grizzly]

Τhat's why I first and mostly spoke about people who I have MET.
I only talked about those I met at internet in the last 3 lines

BTW, how are Albanians compared to other immigrants in Greece? A bit curios..

[Anusiya]

No one is talking about patriotism, the argument was treason.

Q: And what is the prerequisite for treason?
A: Not being a patriot perhaps? :P


You got any evidence on this "fact"?


Reactions and approval
[I]The Protocol was eventually accepted after the intervention of Venizelos; however the representatives of Himara found the terms too humiliating, arguing that the only viable solution would be union with Greece and not autonomy inside the Albanian state.

I am not even going to argue about Zografos's legitimacy. I need to mention however that the terms of the Protocol had been accepted by both Italy and Austria.

[Queen B]

BTW, how are Albanians compared to other immigrants in Greece? A bit curios..
I would be unfair (for all parties involved) because they are the most numerous of all the immigrants.

As you probably know, we have all kind of immigrants here. From eastern europe, to middle east, asia, africa, etc.

For the ''good'' Albanians that I mentioned, they are pretty cool people. Hard working, integrated in the society, polite, and proud people (in a good sense).
We have a couple of families in my neighborhood, and never cause any problem, in fact, they are well-liked people.
They are ''better'' than many of the eastern european immigrants, in terms of behaving, but not as ''good'' as some Asians (like Philipino, f.e)

For the ''bad'' ones, they are equally as bad as the Russians from Pontus, Georgians, Middle eastern and African scums that steal, sell drugs, talk filthy, beat their wives, etc.

[Rron]

Well i cannot speak for the whole Albanian nation but for the people that i've met.

They are not that bad as they present them,there are decent and hard working people amidst them.



One thing that i don't like is the demonisation of Greece amidst them.
Burning Greek flags and demand to annex Greek soil to Albania might lead your country into very dangerous paths.
With attitudes like that,you could make the Greek state to demand Albanian soil of Southern Albania....

And in that case,no US army will help you like they did in Kosovo.
Firstly you must explain what is considered Greek soil , its not every part of your neighbours country with which ones you have boundaries Greek soil, but lets get back to Albanian lands which you called ''Greek soil'' in your post.

Within greek state of 1913 there were helenized arvanites , orthodox chams and helenized vllachs, while muslim chams were deported from that part in 1944, the first two have as own language Albanian language, vlachs their own language .So in occupied part of Epir in 1881-1913 there are not Hellenes, but only hellenized populations by language

Louis Beonlew on it his work ''Greece before the Greeks'' have mentioned facts among other '' Before independence war of 1821 there didnt exist any Albanian in Argos which can speak Greek language.In 1870 territories around Aticca,south Euboea ,Megara , Argos , Corinth were completely inhabited by Albanians.

[Anusiya]

Within greek state of 1913 there were helenized arvanites , orthodox chams and helenized vllachs...

Interesting. So, are "Cham" and "Arvanites" distinct? Because I believe both are of Albanian origin.

[Rron]

Interesting. So, are "Cham" and "Arvanites" distinct? Because I believe both are of Albanian origin.
No they are not distinct , why you are asking me that?

[Anusiya]

Because you mentioned them separately. That's all.

[Rron]

Because you mentioned them separately. That's all.
I mentioned them in that way with purpose to have more clearer picture of facts.

[Harry Potter]

Q: And what is the prerequisite for treason?
A: Not being a patriot perhaps?

Selling your homeland to the neighbors?


I am not even going to argue about Zografos's legitimacy. I need to mention however that the terms of the Protocol had been accepted by both Italy and Austria.

And then when they moved in Albania they kicked your back, right?


Interesting. So, are "Cham" and "Arvanites" distinct? Because I believe both are of Albanian origin.

Well by modern standard they are different. Chams Moslems and Christians have all an ethnic Albanian identity, while not all of the "Arvanites" have an ethnic Albanian identity. For Arvanites I mean the Albanophones of central and southern Greece. N.W.Greece and N.E.Greece have pure Albanians by language and identity.

[Aura]

I would be unfair (for all parties involved) because they are the most numerous of all the immigrants.

As you probably know, we have all kind of immigrants here. From eastern europe, to middle east, asia, africa, etc.

For the ''good'' Albanians that I mentioned, they are pretty cool people. Hard working, integrated in the society, polite, and proud people (in a good sense).
We have a couple of families in my neighborhood, and never cause any problem, in fact, they are well-liked people.
They are ''better'' than many of the eastern european immigrants, in terms of behaving, but not as ''good'' as some Asians (like Philipino, f.e)

For the ''bad'' ones, they are equally as bad as the Russians from Pontus, Georgians, Middle eastern and African scums that steal, sell drugs, talk filthy, beat their wives, etc.

There are 2 types of albanian emigrants,firstly those who left the country for economical purposes and they didn't have any kind of qualifications, education etc, mostly villagers. Secondly, students who represent the other face of albanian society who are very educated and well integrated. In Tirana the elite of albanian society you can find old people who have studied in the west and Moscow(after the commies) very open minded,I can say one of the best capitals of Balkans well people dont have that low complex of nationalism and hate for other neighbor countries.

[Rron]

Well by modern standard they are different. Chams Moslems and Christians have all an ethnic Albanian identity, while not all of the "Arvanites" have an ethnic Albanian identity. For Arvanites I mean the Albanophones of central and southern Greece. N.W.Greece and N.E.Greece have pure Albanians by language and identity.
By which modern standards are they considered different? what are these standards.Can you please be more specific and explain you claims how that Arvanites which ones you mentioned are not of Albanian identity just because they probably are hellenized, when i say hellenized i mean by language, to not mention fact that they even under such a totaly opression by Hellenes remained bilingual.

[Queen B]

There are 2 types of albanian emigrants,firstly those who left the country for economical purposes and they didn't have any kind of qualifications, education etc, mostly villagers. Secondly, students who represent the other face of albanian society who are very educated and well integrated. In Tirana the elite of albanian society you can find old people who have studied in the west and Moscow(after the commies) very open minded,I can say one of the best capitals of Balkans well people dont have that low complex of nationalism and hate for other neighbor countries.

I guess so... but in Greece's case, are not that kind of immigrants. At least not the second category. We ''export'' educated youngsters, unfortunately, we can't even keep our own here.
In Greece there are people who left Albania for economic reasons, in the very early 90s, who came here legally, settled and integrated, worked hard, and live as part of this society without causing troubles.Or people that came later, to join their families, etc.

There are also people that left Albania because they escaped prison, because they already had legal problems there (and came here without papers), or uneducated fools that expect that because some of their compatriots work and are well-off here, everything will be as good for them, without moving their ass to work, or without working legaly. Rude, uneducated, sexists,etc. Most of them are single/males (young), but you'll find some of those troubled holding a family.

I think the educated ones that you mention, are probably staying in Albania.
I mean, Albania is making steps forward by trying to modernize itself, built more facilities, make it more tourist-friendly,etc,

[Harry Potter]

By which modern standards are they considered different? what are these standards.Can you please be more specific and explain you claims how that Arvanites which ones you mentioned are not of Albanian identity just because they probably are hellenized, when i say hellenized i mean by language, to not mention fact that they even under such a totaly opression by Hellenes remained bilingual.

Oops, I forgot to say "Modern standard of the Greek language".:(

They call Tsamides the people of Epirus and Arvanites the people of central and southern Greece.

Well it's also true that not all the Albanophones of central and southern Greece have an ethnic Albanian identity. Not all of them were like A.Kollias or N.Stylos. I know that they have suffered a lot. More than the Chamerians or Arvanites have suffered those who call themselves just "shqiptarë" and live in the Evros province mostly. The Chamerians lived under fear so they didn't opened their mouth, the Arvanites lived with mixed feelings and didn't had too much to say, while the ethnic Albanians of North-Eastern Greece had the bravery to admit their ethnic Albanian identity, but has never had the support of the Greek-puppet governs that have ruled Albania since 1992. I guess you have seen the documentaries made by Top-Channel Albania that interviewed many people from Evros, these guys were even claiming to be higher in number than the ethnic Greeks in that province and Alexandropouli in particular(I think this was exaggerated by them). I think you can still find the videos on top-channel.tv or on Youtube.

[Aura]

I guess so... but in Greece's case, are not that kind of immigrants. At least not the second category. We ''export'' educated youngsters, unfortunately, we can't even keep our own here.
In Greece there are people who left Albania for economic reasons, in the very early 90s, who came here legally, settled and integrated, worked hard, and live as part of this society without causing troubles.Or people that came later, to join their families, etc.

There are also people that left Albania because they escaped prison, because they already had legal problems there (and came here without papers), or uneducated fools that expect that because some of their compatriots work and are well-off here, everything will be as good for them, without moving their ass to work, or without working legaly. Rude, uneducated, sexists,etc. Most of them are single/males (young), but you'll find some of those troubled holding a family.

I think the educated ones that you mention, are probably staying in Albania.
I mean, Albania is making steps forward by trying to modernize itself, built more facilities, make it more tourist-friendly,etc,

I understand perfectly that category of people who are emigrants. Anyway as I've seen in now thousands of them are coming back bcs of crisis. What is important to mention is also that good students who left Albania only few of them are coming back, after graduating they start their carrier on those countries.For example I had the chance to see that in USA albanian students but also a from other balcan countries are becoming elite there..So in Albania those students who represent the best elite of society are not coming back, compared with albanian society in macedonia-skopje is even worse,I guess in Kosovo is kind a the same too. According to me this is the most patriotic act if this elite is coming back and kick out this commie elite in power. I guess you dont have this situation in Greece!

[Queen B]

I understand perfectly that category of people who are emigrants. Anyway as I've seen in now thousands of them are coming back bcs of crisis.
That's good. Both for you and for us.

What is important to mention is also that good students who left Albania only few of them are coming back, after graduating they start their carrier on those countries.For example I had the chance to see that in USA albanian students but also a from other balcan countries are becoming elite there..
Same here. As I said, we ''export'' scientist, educated youth.
That's sad, actually.

[Anusiya]

Has already tried to give parts of S.Albania to Greece and it will, believe me. Albanians are pussies, no one is standing to kill the traitors that are ruling the country.
I guess you have heard from the medias about a treaty to give parts of S.Albania to Greece. Sali Berisha the actual dictator of Albania(Salistan) is trying hard to do that and he will, soon...


Perfect example of micro-politics and fast food news. Careful, the Turks will invade from the Thrace, vote for patriot 'X'. The Greeks are coming from the South, vote for patriot 'O'. Aren't you tired of this bull?

[Harry Potter]

Perfect example of micro-politics and fast food news. Careful, the Turks will invade from the Thrace, vote for patriot 'X'. The Greeks are coming from the South, vote for patriot 'O'. Aren't you tired of this bull?

http://www.defencegreece.com/index.php/2011/09/greece-was-willing-to-compromise-on-the-eez-border-with-albania-as-long-as-the-u-s-was-kept-out-of-the-negotiations/

Do you live in Greece or not?

[alb0zfinest]

I guess so... but in Greece's case, are not that kind of immigrants. At least not the second category. We ''export'' educated youngsters, unfortunately, we can't even keep our own here.
In Greece there are people who left Albania for economic reasons, in the very early 90s, who came here legally, settled and integrated, worked hard, and live as part of this society without causing troubles.Or people that came later, to join their families, etc.

There are also people that left Albania because they escaped prison, because they already had legal problems there (and came here without papers), or uneducated fools that expect that because some of their compatriots work and are well-off here, everything will be as good for them, without moving their ass to work, or without working legaly. Rude, uneducated, sexists,etc. Most of them are single/males (young), but you'll find some of those troubled holding a family.

I think the educated ones that you mention, are probably staying in Albania.
I mean, Albania is making steps forward by trying to modernize itself, built more facilities, make it more tourist-friendly,etc,
Alot and i mean ALOT of the educated ones left from Albania in the 1990s it was called an Albanian brain drain.
http://cloud1.gdnet.org/~research_papers/Albanian%20brain%20drain:%20turning%20the%20tide
Sadly because of this Albania will grow at a slower pace.

[iNird]

Brain drain is a problem for the majority of the world except for the few rich countries (ieAmerica, Australia, Britain, Germany, Canada, France, Japan etc.)

In my personal opinion, many of the stereotypes of Albanians come from the early 90's from Albania. These first wave of immigrants were poor, uneducated and frankly naive since they were locked up in a communist dictatorship for their whole lives. When these people immigrated to say Italy, Greece, etc they didn't really know how to function in a modern society. Today the story is different.

[Queen B]

Brain drain is a problem for the majority of the world except for the few rich countries (ieAmerica, Australia, Britain, Germany, Canada, France, Japan etc.)

In my personal opinion, many of the stereotypes of Albanians come from the early 90's from Albania. These first wave of immigrants were poor, uneducated and frankly naive since they were locked up in a communist dictatorship for their whole lives. When these people immigrated to say Italy, Greece, etc they didn't really know how to function in a modern society. Today the story is different.

But those from the early 90s are the ''good'' ones. Might not be educated, or rich (if you are, why to migrate?) but they are hardworking, polite, and they integrated in society. The 1st generation living there, are fully integrated.

The second wave was the problem. The second wave is those who escaped from prisons. Those who left immidiately, and came here ILLEGAL.

[Anusiya]

But those from the early 90s are the ''good'' ones. Might not be educated, or rich (if you are, why to migrate?) but they are hardworking, polite, and they integrated in society. The 1st generation living there, are fully integrated.

The second wave was the problem. The second wave is those who escaped from prisons. Those who left immidiately, and came here ILLEGAL.

"Escaping from prison" isn't necessarily something bad. He/she might have been blacklisted from their government.

[Aura]

Brain drain is a problem for the majority of the world except for the few rich countries (ieAmerica, Australia, Britain, Germany, Canada, France, Japan etc.)

In my personal opinion, many of the stereotypes of Albanians come from the early 90's from Albania. These first wave of immigrants were poor, uneducated and frankly naive since they were locked up in a communist dictatorship for their whole lives. When these people immigrated to say Italy, Greece, etc they didn't really know how to function in a modern society. Today the story is different.

Anyway educated albanian emigrants don't contribute nothing for their country,they will never return back,so they are useless :)

[safinator]

If i was the Government i would promote a programm to make this people return but it costs.

[Aura]

People make the government, we should not wait everything from government...As Ismail Kadare says: Albanians are patriots in primitive way and steal the country in modern way...
So dralos patriotism for me is non sense :D

[Drawing-slim]

...

[iNird]

The second wave was the problem. The second wave is those who escaped from prisons. Those who left immidiately, and came here ILLEGAL.

I'm not sure how true this is because it is more of a Greek claim that Albania let all of it's murderers, rapists, thieves, were dumped into Greece. But even if this is true that these prisoners were let go, you have to realize that many of these prisoners were political prisoners, religious people and etc. One could be jailed in Albania during that time for listening to Western radio or simply making an anti-Communist statement. So it's not like the worst of the worst were dumped into Greece (assuming the story is true.)



Anyway educated albanian emigrants don't contribute nothing for their country,they will never return back,so they are useless :)

It depends if they send back remittances back home they do contribute.



If i was the Government i would promote a programm to make this people return but it costs.

Albania does have a program called "Albania brain gain."

http://www.braingain.gov.al

It doesn't appear the website is working so it might be shut down. Regardless I don't think these programs will do much. I think if these people come back it will be a natural progression of the standards in Albania rising.

[Queen B]

I'm not sure how true this is because it is more of a Greek claim that Albania let all of it's murderers, rapists, thieves, were dumped into Greece. But even if this is true that these prisoners were let go, you have to realize that many of these prisoners were political prisoners, religious people and etc. One could be jailed in Albania during that time for listening to Western radio or simply making an anti-Communist statement. So it's not like the worst of the worst were dumped into Greece (assuming the story is true.)
Ιf its not true, then its not too good for your country's reputation, you know.
If all those people were ''normal'' average people, then there is a problem.

Those people have been selling drugs, steal, murder, and are engaged in criminal activities.
And unlike the first wave that came here legally, with all the papers needed, they came illegal.
Its those people that gave Albanians a bad name here.

[Peyrol]

What's your opinion about the Albanians? Opinione su gli Albanesi? Good, bad, please also comment and explain why.

Credo che attualmente siano una delle comunità straniere maggiormente integrate nel paese.

[Drawing-slim]

Ιf its not true, then its not too good for your country's reputation, you know.
If all those people were ''normal'' average people, then there is a problem.

Those people have been selling drugs, steal, murder, and are engaged in criminal activities.
And unlike the first wave that came here legally, with all the papers needed, they came illegal.
Its those people that gave Albanians a bad name here.Its not good for your country's image at all what you've done to albanians for the last 20 years.
At least albanians came out of 47 years of brutal total communist isolation. Whats your excuse?

[Queen B]

Its not good for your country's image at all what you've done to albanians for the last 20 years.
At least albanians came out of 47 years of brutal total communist isolation. Whats your excuse?
Done what?
Open borders and welcoming them?
Right, we should send those all back, indeed. After all, the did nothing positive hear.

[Geni]

Credo che attualmente siano una delle comunità straniere maggiormente integrate nel paese.

Mi fa veramente piacere di leggere questo...dopo tanti anni turbolenti.. ..:)

[Peyrol]

Mi fa veramente piacere di leggere questo...dopo tanti anni turbolenti.. ..:)

E' vero, i primi anni non sono stati facili per nessuno, per noi nè tantomeno per voi che vi sieie ritrovati lontani da casa in un paese straniero e molte volte ostile...ma oggi è diverso, anzi (purtroppo) molti albanesi di seconda generazione faticano a parlare il tosco (ne conosco almeno tre con questo ''difetto'').

[Geni]

E' vero, i primi anni non sono stati facili per nessuno, per noi nè tantomeno per voi che vi sieie ritrovati lontani da casa in un paese straniero e molte volte ostile...ma oggi è diverso, anzi (purtroppo) molti albanesi di seconda generazione faticano a parlare il tosco (ne conosco almeno tre con questo ''difetto'').

hhaaa ..e normale..spero che si integrerano al meglio...e dare il loro contributo per rafforzare Italia e in questo modo rafforzando i legami tra i 2 popoli..abbiamo ancora molto da correggere ed apprendere....ma mi fa veramente piacere che stiamo sulla strada giusta..grazie Perduellio per questi pensieri da persona matura..

[beaver1]

Serbs - friends
Albanians - enemies
This is standart Russian variant

[Geni]

Serbs - friends
Albanians - enemies
This is standart Russian variant

That logic....congratulations..that profound vision of reality...:thumb001:

[Anusiya]

LOL! In Soviet Russia, phenotype classifies YOU!

[Ira di Dio]

hhaaa ..e normale..spero che si integrerano al meglio...e dare il loro contributo per rafforzare Italia e in questo modo rafforzando i legami tra i 2 popoli..abbiamo ancora molto da correggere ed apprendere....ma mi fa veramente piacere che stiamo sulla strada giusta..grazie Perduellio per questi pensieri da persona matura..
E' vero, da quanto posso vedere io gli albanesi sono una delle poche comunità di immigrati (se non l'unica) il cui rapporto con gli italiani si è effettivamente evoluto nel senso di una vera integrazione, a conferma che non tutte le culture sono compatibili (vedi i cinesi o i nord africani per citare gli esempi che fanno maggior "resistenza"). Alcuni "casi" problematici tra gli albanesi in Italia emergono ancora di tanto in tanto ma sono sempre più rari.

[Peyrol]

E' vero, da quanto posso vedere io gli albanesi sono una delle poche comunità di immigrati (se non l'unica) il cui rapporto con gli italiani si è effettivamente evoluto nel senso di una vera integrazione, a conferma che non tutte le culture sono compatibili (vedi i cinesi o i nord africani per citare gli esempi che fanno maggior "resistenza"). Alcuni "casi" problematici tra gli albanesi in Italia emergono ancora di tanto in tanto ma sono sempre più rari.

Quelli credo che saranno un continuo tumore in crescita per la nostra società, assolutamente non integrabili. Oddio, forse per i maghrebini qualche speranza c'è, ma per i cinesi decisamente no.

[Harry Potter]

Credo che attualmente siano una delle comunità straniere maggiormente integrate nel paese.

Finalmente un Italiano che risponde. C'era un motivo perche' ho creato questo topic esattamente in questo sub-forum, volevo sentire l'opinione degli Italiani.


Serbs - friends
Albanians - enemies
This is standart Russian variant

The topic is about the opinion that the Italians have about the Albanians, not the Russians. That's why the topic was created in this sub-forum.

Anyway, even that opinion is wrong. That's what the Putin-related garbage media tries to shows up or what stupid hooligan-trash shows up on the stadiums along Nazi Germany flags and "Heil Hitler" salutes. Ironically Hitler hated the Russians. The Russian elite is much more in favor of the advanced progressive Albanians than the medievalist Serbs.

[beaver1]

The topic is about the opinion that the Italians have about the Albanians, not the Russians. That's why the topic was created in this sub-forum.

Anyway, even that opinion is wrong. That's what the Putin-related garbage media tries to shows up or what stupid hooligan-trash shows up on the stadiums along Nazi Germany flags and "Heil Hitler" salutes. Ironically Hitler hated the Russians. The Russian elite is much more in favor of the advanced progressive Albanians than the medievalist Serbs.
I wrote in wrong place, agree. And this is not my opinion, its just typical opinion here, doesnt matter if it is false or right. I, personally, like smart and crazy persones :) of all origins