Does some European Jewish music borrow from southern Italian style?

[Sikeliot]

I'm going to raise controversy here, but it has to be asked.

This Jewish song, in rhythm and instruments and even the tune, sounds so much like Sicilian music.

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Hava Nagila has a similar sound to some southern Italian folk music.

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Israeli song that sounds like Sicilian music, except its in Hebrew.

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Now some Sicilian music to compare.

Compare this to the first song I posted in the links of Jewish music.

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The rhythm of this song picks up later. It sounds like Bar Mitzvah music.

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And these songs sound similar too.

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[Sikeliot]

this is the first song I posted. The rhythm just is so familiar.

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[EagleAtHeart]

Maybe I don't have a musical ear, but each of those videos sounds exactly like Russian, Romanian, Polish, etc. folk music that I've heard at weddings or festivals.

Jews have infested all of those countries above, so its probably them just stealing it, as per usual.

[EagleAtHeart]

Article on Jewish folk music:



Israeli music is heavily influenced by its constituents, which include Jewish immigrants from more than 120 countries around the world, which have brought their own musical traditions, making Israel a global melting pot. The Israeli music is very versatile and combines elements of both western and eastern music.

From the earliest days of Zionist settlement, Jewish immigrants wrote popular folk music. At first, songs were based on borrowed melodies from German, Russian, or traditional Jewish folk music with new lyrics written in Hebrew.

[Sikeliot]

The last link I posted, with the Russian Jewish song "Tumbalalaika" is rhythmically very similar to songs in southern Italy like "Si Maritau Rosa". As are the instruments.

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It's also a coincidence where European Jews cluster genetically, which makes me think they're basically converted southern Italians. And the musical links come from that.

[Virtuous]

Maybe I don't have a musical ear, but each of those videos sounds exactly like Russian, Romanian, Polish, etc. folk music that I've heard at weddings or festivals.

Jews have infested all of those countries above, so its probably them just stealing it, as per usual.

I thought the same, it reminds me of the good ol' Soviet music with the mandolin.

[Sikeliot]

I thought the same, it reminds me of the good ol' Soviet music with the mandolin.

Southern Italians use the mandolin all the time, and the accordion. I'm surprised you wouldn't think it sounded similar, as I'd think Maltese music uses all of these instruments as well.

[EagleAtHeart]

The last link I posted, with the Russian Jewish song "Tumbalalaika" is rhythmically very similar to songs in southern Italy like "Si Maritau Rosa". As are the instruments.

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It's also a coincidence where European Jews cluster genetically, which makes me think they're basically converted southern Italians. And the musical links come from that.

Now you're just trolling.

That study linking Ashkenazi's to Mediterraneans (Bauchet) also stated that Ashkenazi Jews mostly clustered with Arabic North African populations when looking at the whole of Europe.

Many other genetic studies state they're Levantine.

So what can it be?

Also, who was the sample population? What regions? Southern Italy did take in lots of Jews after the Spanish Inquisition.

Either way, Jews are a unique race totally unrelated to ethnic Italians

[Virtuous]

Southern Italians use the mandolin all the time, and the accordion. I'm surprised you wouldn't think it sounded similar, as I'd think Maltese music uses all of these instruments as well.

And the accordion too, indeed.

Well, no, it can be a lil similar sometimes but we deviated a little from the style since we're disconnected from our cousins :P.

[Virtuous]

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[Virtuous]

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[Sikeliot]

Either way, Jews are a unique race totally unrelated to ethnic Italians

Doesn't appear that way to me.

http://imageshack.us/a/img717/4008/pca12s.png

[Vesuvian Sky]

I think as we all know certain Jewish cultural traditions have more or less been an amalgamation of where ever Jews have been. And Jews of course passed through Italy (one only needs to stand in front of the Arch of Titus to know why) and there's still Jews in Italy till this day (ironically the Jewish community of Rome is right by the Victor Emmanuelle monument - the most nationalistic symbol of Italy theoretically).

Anyway, yeah there's some rhythmic and the melodic similarity to southern Italian folk here. The tambourine, albeit a rather generic instrument found anywhere nowadays, certainly stands out the way its marking rhythm in a very folk Italian way.

I have no idea though if this song in post #2 has its roots or origins or not due to the time Jews were in Med. Europe.

Hava Nagila is of course very middle eastern and is using I think one of the darkest sounding Arabesque scales out there. Dick Dale covers this song and and Miserlou, a Greek folk song, and when you play these melodies on say the guitar you can tell they are derived from similar musical traditions: heavily Mid-east and Mediterranean.

I don't think all Jewish music sounds the same though and some of these song styles are certainly distinguishable from Klezmer which is very Ashkenazim IMO or more typical of Eastern Europe styles of music vs. Near East-Med. music.

[Sikeliot]

Well I'm glad to know it's not JUST me who notices the similarity, even though I didn't expect everyone to.

[EagleAtHeart]

Doesn't appear that way to me.

http://imageshack.us/a/img717/4008/pca12s.png

No source, no sample population, no margin of error, just a bunch of colored triangles.

If you can post where they derived that info from I'd gladly spend a few moments reading over the data to dissect it.

[Sikeliot]

I shouldn't have brought up genetics, let's keep this about the music.

[Anglojew]

Could also be from a shared Roman musical style.

[rashka]

Hava Nagila has a similar sound to some southern Italian folk music.
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Hava Nagila sounds more like Serbian than Italian. It has a sort of East European/Balkan Slav flavor to it. When I first heard Hava Nagila I thought it was Serbian music.

This one's a cool video. The Starčević family.
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[Anusiya]

I think Hava Nagila sounds like ska-Russian. And a bit of eastern tunes in there. It's like their own Misirlou. It probably originates from the Crymean somewhere. Another argument in favor of the Khazar presence.

Here is another rendition:

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[Virtuous]

Same thing goes for the bagpipes by the way, they are not Scottish but have been introduced to Scotland by trade from the Middle East.

[Peyrol]

Also some northern italian song sound jewish or balkanic

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[Peyrol]

Same thing goes for the bagpipes by the way, they are not Scottish but have been introduced to Scotland by trade from the Middle East.

We have bagpipes here too (north Italy).

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[Vesuvian Sky]

We have bagpipes here too (north Italy).


In the Italian neighborhood my family grew up, at one of the festivals Appenine mountain bagpipers were invited to perform their folk music.:cool:

[Sikeliot]

Only an ignorant American would think bagpipes are strictly Scottish. Although I've met a few who think they're Irish, not even Scottish. :lol: :rolleyes:

[Vesuvian Sky]

Only an ignorant American would think bagpipes are strictly Scottish. Although I've met a few who think they're Irish, not even Scottish. :lol: :rolleyes:

I've even had a very astute Scotsman who preformed bagpipe music tell me that the appropriate origins of bagpipe music to Europe which happened as a result of Romans conquering various parts of the Mid-east and bringing it back to Europe (it actually has Babylonian or Persian roots I believe).

Jordanians play it as well.

[Anusiya]

Sticking a couple of sticks in a cow's stomach and push to make sounds. Wait, doesn't this sound ancient Greek, or Thracian? The people even made guitars out of turtles!

[Vesuvian Sky]

Sticking a couple of sticks in a cow's stomach and push to make sounds. Wait, doesn't this sound ancient Greek, or Thracian? The people even made guitars out of turtles!

I wonder if Saul Hudson, aka Slash (part Jewish BTW), could be convinced to put down his Gibson Les Paul in favor of these turtle shell guitars.:D

Playing 'Sweet Child O'Mine' on ancient turtle shell guitar, now that I'd pay to see.:cool:

[Peyrol]

In the Italian neighborhood my family grew up, at one of the festivals Appenine mountain bagpipers were invited to perform their folk music.:cool:

In Abruzzo are called ''Zampogne'', in my mom village (eastern Lombardy) ''Baghet''.



Only an ignorant American would think bagpipes are strictly Scottish. Although I've met a few who think they're Irish, not even Scottish. :lol: :rolleyes:

But they associate pipes with celtic music...try to listen a song by Lou Dalfin and think ''this is from southern Europe''....3/4 of the american would say '''hoo this is celtic''.

[Dimitri159]

I think it borrows more from a Balkan style. A lot of Ashkenazi folk music sounds similar to (mainland) Greek folk music.

[Tauromachos]

I think it borrows more from a Balkan style. A lot of Ashkenazi folk music sounds similar to (mainland) Greek folk music.

The clarinet is one of the most important instruments in both styles