Most Endangered Ethnic groups..

[evon]

I wanted to see whom people feel are the most endangered ethnic groups in Europe and also give some awareness about them..

Here are a few maps to illustrate the endangered groups in my Region (Scandinavia):

Linguistic map:

http://www.languageandpeace.com/images/other/europe.gif

Demographic map (population density):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Population_density_Europe.png/700px-Population_density_Europe.png

In my region the most endangered are the various Saami peoples, especially the South Saami, whom live in a very small part of the area listed as number 1 here on this map:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Corrected_sami_map_4.PNG

Today they are very few, around 2000 who identify as South Saami (my guess is you can add another 500-1000 who identity as Norwegian or Swedish also), out of this total number only 600 speak South Saami, which is a distinct language apart from other Saami languages, whom also have far more speakers, i tried finding more videos with spoken south saami, but i only found this and a few others, its a children’s music cd advertisement;

NTnqi7xJlZs


Out of the Total population of around 5 million of which around 80-87% are Norwegians (with various linguistic ect sub-groups, we have two Norwegians languages also) and the rest a mix of mostly immigrants 650-800 000 and some minorities who number around 20 000. Since Immigration started in Norway these minorities have lost out out allot of things and Saami are one of the few minorities that its still politically correct to "joke about", they have lost out also in the fact that in most government buildings you are far more likely to find Urdu, Somali, Kurdish, Turkish, Arabic ect information available then you are Saami languages.

[Peyrol]

In my region most endangered languages are gallo-italic ones (pink in the map), plus furlane/friulano and venetian.
Also occitan piemonteis (''provenzale'' in the map) is endangered, even if is still vigorous.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__2WQcPvZv10/TSoG6stat-I/AAAAAAAAAdk/We5YtOHXGmM/s1600/cartadia.gif

[evon]

^ Is it considered separate ethnic groups?

[Anusiya]

:eek: Italy's ethnic/cultural map is massive. So all these are Italic peoples? No wonder why you guys had mafias over there.

[Smaug]

In my region most endangered languages are gallo-italic ones (pink in the map), plus furlane/friulano and venetian.
Also occitan piemonteis (''provenzale'' in the map) is endangered, even if is still vigorous.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__2WQcPvZv10/TSoG6stat-I/AAAAAAAAAdk/We5YtOHXGmM/s1600/cartadia.gif

Perduellio old friend, do you know what's the situtation of Venetian? I read that it is still widely spoken, can you confirm this information?

[Peyrol]

^ Is it considered separate ethnic groups?

Yes, because they're recognized as different languages, except tuscan, which don't exist as language because sandard italian is tuscan, chosen as national language because was the language of the Renaissance. Nowadays gallo-italic languages (lombard, piemonteis, ligurian, etc), Venetian, Forland and some others are endangere forstly for the massive south/north internal immigration of the 50-60 who changed northern italian ethnic component...now about 1 out of 4 in northern Italy is, in reality, a second/third generation southerner.

Remember that we were divided from 476 to 1861.
Plus, there are significant genetic difference between north/south and Sardinia/continent.


:eek: Italy's ethnic/cultural map is massive. So all these are Italic peoples? No wonder why you guys had mafias over there.


''Mafias'' originated in Sicilia and Napoli in 1861, after piemonteis ocnquest of southern Italy (event known as ''Italian Unity''), in reaction to central government.
There aren't indigenous mafias of central/northern Italy.


...and btw yes, we're a very diverse country.
And the previous map was about languages....take a look of this one which include also dialects of those languages. :lol:

http://geograficamente.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/lingue-italiane1.png

[evon]

I would love to Learn South Saami, but my own regional language (Nynorsk listed as blue) is also endangered and so i should focus more on that given its more practical and i have a background in it;

http://geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Norway-Languages-Map.png

I should ask my south saami friend if she speaks it, if so i can use it with her, but i think her Bf might get jealous:P so who knows...

[Peyrol]

Perduellio old friend, do you know what's the situtation of Venetian? I read that it is still widely spoken, can you confirm this information?

3 million speakers between Veneto and Friuli...and about 1 million speaker in Brazil, plus about 4,000 speakers in Mexico (city of Chipilo).

[Anusiya]

Which ones are the very "harsh" italian I have listened to at times? Something that sounds like a mix of Russian and Latin. Not nice sounding at all. Is it Roman?

[Peyrol]

Probabily Forlan/Friulan is the most endangered because isn't connected with other romance languages, but is a Rhaeto-Romanic...the loss of Furlan would be a loss for the entire european culture.

This is spoken furlan

05O3mSX4xnQ

[Smaug]

Furlan sounds like a mix of Lusitanian Portuguese and Russian.

[Peyrol]

Which ones are the very "harsh" italian I have listened to at times? Something that sounds like a mix of Russian and Latin. Not nice sounding at all. Is it Roman?

Standard italian is based on the spoken/written tuscan of the 1200-1500 (Dante Alighieri, Francesco Petrarca, Giucciardini, etc)...so, tuscan (and the closest language, corsican) are the ''most italian'' languages here.

Corsican is very close to tuscan/italian

dpXAWC9Skmw

[Peyrol]

Furlan sounds like a mix of Lusitanian Portuguese and Russian.

You're not the first who say this...definitely, after romanian forlan is the most slavicized language, especially in the pronunciation.

[Comte Arnau]

In Iberia, it is the (Upper) Aragonese ethnicity, still alive in a few Pyrenean valleys, but almost extinct. Their language, culture and lifestyle aren't transmitted to children any more, as most move to the cities and local politicians disregard it.

http://www.esculturaurbanaaragon.com.es/images/echo1m.JPG

http://www.posadamagoria.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/anso.jpg

ZLctnXgiWwg

[Peyrol]

^

Is Aragonese language intermediate between catalan and castillian?

[Comte Arnau]

^

Is Aragonese language intermediate between catalan and castillian?

Yes, kind of. It was closer to Catalan and Gascon in the Middle Ages, now what remains of it is heavily Castilianized. Most natives nowadays speak a hybrid.

[Pallantides]

but my own regional language (Nynorsk listed as blue) is also endangered


Good thing, the sooner it's gone the better. :D

[Peyrol]

Yes, kind of. It was closer to Catalan and Gascon in the Middle Ages, now what remains of it is heavily Castilianized. Most natives nowadays speak a hybrid.

Is sad when people don't transmit their culture/language to their childrens...here this trend is happened/is happening everywhere in north Italy...but about northern italian laguages, the only recognized as minorance is Forlan, so karnik people have some little chances to survive as linguistical/cultural ethnic group.

[Comte Arnau]

Is sad when people don't transmit their culture/language to their childrens...here this trend is happened/is happening everywhere in north Italy...but about northern italian laguages, the only recognized as minorance is Forlan, so karnik people have some little chances to survive as linguistical/cultural ethnic group.

Funnily enough, Aragonese may be the language with more Wikipedia articles and more books published per year with regard to the number of readers. :D

[Peyrol]

Funnily enough, Aragonese may be the language with more Wikipedia articles and more books published per year with regard to the number of readers. :D

Why this? There is a revival project?





I forgot another tuscan dialect who si nearly extinct...corsican

GwNNbOKR8Hw

[Comte Arnau]

Why this? There is a revival project?


There is one since the 1970's. There are books, magazines, bands, associations, an online newspaper (www.arredol.com), etc. It is optionally taught at some schools and there are maybe a few hundreds of new speakers in Saragossa. The Statute of Aragon recognizes it vaguely (same for the Catalan spoken in eastern Aragon), but it is not official yet.

As of today, I'd say there must be some 6,000 to 10,000 speakers, probably only half of them being really fluent.

[mysticism]

The Sorbs, numbering today a mere 60,000 in north-eastern Germany. Only an approximately 25,000 speakers of the language today.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Germany_sorbian_region.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Bautzen_Ortschild.jpg/800px-Bautzen_Ortschild.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/xpyioz.jpg

They have no autonomy and little support from the German government.

[evon]

Good thing, the sooner it's gone the better. :D

"blow me" city boy:P

[Prince Carlo]

now about 1 out of 4 in northern Italy is, in reality, a second/third generation southerner.

^ Bullshit. Not even if you includes all the the half bloods.

[Peyrol]

^ Bullshit. Not even if you includes all the the half bloods.

It is. You never been there i presume. Even in some isolated cities as Cuneo, Bergamo or Udine there was a southern immigration.
Higher percentages are about 65% in Torino and 60% in Milano.

[Prince Carlo]

It is. You never been there i presume. Even in some isolated cities as Cuneo, Bergamo or Udine there was a southern immigration.
Higher percentages are about 65% in Torino and 60% in Milano.

I saw the statistics. People born in the south are not even 10% of North Italian population. If you include all the half bloods, second-third generation... perhaps 15%.

EDIT I've heard that Catalonia is 50% Spanish non Catalan.

[Peyrol]

I saw the statistics. People born in the south are not even 10% of North Italian population. If you include all the half bloods, second-third generation... perhaps 15%.

EDIT I've heard that Catalonia is 50% Spanish non Catalan.

Lol, maybe in the neoborbonic wet dreams.

Only in Torino metro area there are 1,4 million of first-second-third generation southerners out of 2,2 million people, and Piemont has 4,5 million people.

[Prince Carlo]

Lol, maybe in the neoborbonic wet dreams.

Only in Torino metro area there are 1,4 million of first-second-third generation southerners out of 2,2 million people, and Piemont has 4,5 million people.

I don't know about Piedmont, but the total number of Southerners in Lombardy is close to 10%.

http://www.magnagreciapievemanuele.it/pubblicazioni/gruppiRegionaliLombardia.pdf

About surnames these are the most common surnames in Liguria.

http://italia.indettaglio.it/ita/cognomi/top_ten_cognomi_per_regione_out.html

The only Southern surnames are Costa and Oliveri which are also very common in the north, so only some of them are from the South.

I will make a similar work for Piedmont and Lombardy later.

EDIT you must insert "Liguria" below to see the surnames.

[Peyrol]

I don't know about Piedmont, but the total number of Southerners in Lombardy is close to 10%.

http://www.magnagreciapievemanuele.it/pubblicazioni/gruppiRegionaliLombardia.pdf

About surnames these are the most common surnames in Liguria.

http://italia.indettaglio.it/ita/cognomi/top_ten_cognomi_per_regione_out.html

The only Southern surnames are Costa and Oliveri which are also very common in the north, so only some of them are from the South.

I will make a similar work for Piedmont and Lombardy later.

EDIT you must insert "Liguria" below to see the surnames.

I don't know about Liguria, sincerely. And in Lombardy they're about 1 million, which isn't a low number (lombardy has 9 million people), because in Apulia or Calabria there aren't 1 million lombards to balance.

And about Torino, my all-day experience in this city work better than some anonimous statistic.

[Pallantides]

"blow me" city boy:P

I'm not a city boy, I just happen to currently reside in the city.:D

[alb0zfinest]

The Arbereshe language in Italy, and the arberisht (Arvanitika) language in Greece. Especially Arberisht where its being attempted to greekify the language.

[Anusiya]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

If a language doesn't catch up with the trends, and technology, then it is not useful. Dead languages are preserved either way through writings, so no reason to be a masochist and teach a kid a language he will have no use for in the future. Sooner or later languages either die, or borrow from more structural ones. It's like a Swiss knife. I am not saying that the Greek language is the most complete utility of humanity, especially when dealing with information technology, it's utterly useless. But for all the rest keeps up pretty well.

[alb0zfinest]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

If a language doesn't catch up with the trends, and technology, then it is not useful. Dead languages are preserved either way through writings, so no reason to be a masochist and teach a kid a language he will have no use for in the future. Sooner or later languages either die, or borrow from more structural ones. It's like a Swiss knife. I am not saying that the Greek language is the most complete utility of humanity, especially when dealing with information technology, it's utterly useless. But for all the rest keeps up pretty well.

This wasn't a matter of a "language catching up with the trend", this was after years of forceful assimilation and banning the use of Arberisht. Eventually when the Arvanites began assimilating they started identifying more with Greeks then Albanians, and attempted to change the language to make it more "Greek". Of course they couldn't do this without the help of Greek administrations, those "nice and considerate people" :p
Anyways the example you gave doesn't really fit in this situation, because not only are the speakers very few, the language itself is being altered drastically.

[Peyrol]

There is one since the 1970's. There are books, magazines, bands, associations, an online newspaper (www.arredol.com), etc. It is optionally taught at some schools and there are maybe a few hundreds of new speakers in Saragossa. The Statute of Aragon recognizes it vaguely (same for the Catalan spoken in eastern Aragon), but it is not official yet.

As of today, I'd say there must be some 6,000 to 10,000 speakers, probably only half of them being really fluent.

Spoken aragones is very interesting. Definitely more catalan than castillan.

[Anusiya]

This wasn't a matter of a "language catching up with the trend", this was after years of forceful assimilation and banning the use of Arberisht. Eventually when the Arvanites began assimilating they started identifying more with Greeks then Albanians, and attempted to change the language to make it more "Greek". Of course they couldn't do this without the help of Greek administrations, those "nice and considerate people" :p
Anyways the example you gave doesn't really fit in this situation, because not only are the speakers very few, the language itself is being altered drastically.

Of course it's being altered drastically. There was simply no use for it. Arvanites mixed and assimilated. And why should it be preserved since there is Albanian anyway. :P

Always these Greeks' fault. You have to love us, there is little doubt. It's a hidden admiration.

[alb0zfinest]

Of course it's being altered drastically. There was simply no use for it. Arvanites mixed and assimilated. And why should it be preserved since there is Albanian anyway. :P

Always these Greeks' fault. You have to love us, there is little doubt. It's a hidden admiration.

Because Arberisht is a dialect of Albanian, loosing arberisht is loosing a whole dialect. Besides with arvanitika the Albanian language is richer and filled with more words. Arvanites didn't just assimilate, alot of it was forceful, and the use of their language was prohibited several times during Greek history. But eventually they freely assimilated.
Well its the truth.
Ok you got me i can't keep the secret anymore Αγαπώ την Ελλάδα :D

[Anusiya]

Faleminderit!

LOL! :D

[Balmung]

Any country that has a city with only about 40-60% ethnics. Needs to start readjusting some policies.

[evon]

Another endangered ethnic group is Kvens, i have met one who lives in my city, but i dont think any of them speak Kvenish anymore:(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kven_people

[Anusiya]

Tsakonika is an extinct Greek dialect. I am not sure if it has been mentioned before. Here goes:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/-ZqJINF02Vk0/SB9cn8q6oLI/AAAAAAAAAJI/QU_bhNHF8hY/026_12.JPG

http://astroforum.gr/forum/files/thumbs/t_tsakonika2_106.jpg

Possibly ancient Doric/Spartan elements included. Marked in blue:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Pelopones_ethnic.JPG

I know it's a bit of topic, but still extinct and the people who speak it nonetheless. Especially if one considers that the population of Peloponisos is rather diverse.

[Pallantides]

Another endangered ethnic group is Kvens, i have met one who lives in my city, but i dont think any of them speak Kvenish anymore:(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kven_people


The Kven language is a mutually intelligible dialect of the Finnish language and it's estimated that roughly somewhere between 2000 to 8000 people are native speakers of Kvenish.

[Prince Carlo]

I don't know about Liguria, sincerely. And in Lombardy they're about 1 million, which isn't a low number (lombardy has 9 million people), because in Apulia or Calabria there aren't 1 million lombards to balance.

That's 1 out 9, not 1 out 4 like you falsely claimed and I strongly doubt Piedmont has a different ratio. Other Northern regions have surely far less than that (1 out 15, 1 out 20,...).

[Peyrol]

That's 1 out 9, not 1 out 4 like you falsely claimed and I strongly doubt Piedmont has a different ratio. Other Northern regions have surely far less than that (1 out 15, 1 out 20,...).

Well, take a look of Torino White Pages and the surnames and after we will talk again about this.

[Prince Carlo]

Well, take a look of Torino White Pages and the surnames and after we will talk again about this.

I believe you on that and also on Piedmont (you live there after all). But you claimed that 25% of Northern Italian population is of Southern origins which is not true. 10% is more a realistic ratio.

[Peyrol]

I believe you on that and also on Piedmont (you live there after all). But you claimed that 25% of Northern Italian population is of Southern origins which is not true. 10% is more a realistic ratio.

Maybe i wrote wrong, i meant to wrote that here (Torino metro area) and in some other big cities southerners were 25%.


Btw, returning to the topic...another endangered ethnic group

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[evon]

A good video about saami languages..

vkG7psgdl1o

[Tevon]

Most Endangered Ethnic groups..

Chingizids in Scandinavia.. Like evon and me...

[Comte Arnau]

I saw the statistics. People born in the south are not even 10% of North Italian population. If you include all the half bloods, second-third generation... perhaps 15%.

EDIT I've heard that Catalonia is 50% Spanish non Catalan.

That is misleading, as reality is far more complex.

It is true that Catalonians who are of clear Catalan ethnic background (let's say, Catalan 1st-language speaker with both surnames Catalan) are fewer than a half (probably about 38% of the Catalonia population). This is, however, not a minority, and much of the ruling elite belong in fact to this group.

But the generations born from either the massive mixing of ethnic Catalans with other Iberians or the high number of immigrants from other parts of Iberia (or Europe) in the last two centuries speak Catalan for the most part, feel Catalan and are considered as such by everybody, despite some derogatory terms like xarnego (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charnego) having occurred at times. In Catalonia, Catalan can be spoken by almost 80% of Catalonians, even if it is a 2nd language for half of them.

The policy followed now with the so-called new Catalans (that is, the recent waves of non-European immigrants) is similar, so that Catalan becomes the 2nd, 3rd, sometimes 1st language for those who go to school here.

The fact that the numbers of Catalonians in favour of independence is now higher than 50% (according to polls) isn't representative either of 'ethnic Catalans' vs 'Catalonians from other backgrounds', because many ethnic Catalans are Unionist while many 'new Catalans' are pro independence.

[Skomand]

They have no autonomy and little support from the German government.

Autonomy for such a small number would be a farce.
And they do get government support.
Sorbisch is obligatory in primary schools and some middle schools.


"Das sorbische Schulnetz ist in Sachsen besser ausgebaut als in Brandenburg. Insgesamt gibt es in der Lausitz heute etwa 25 Grundschulen, in denen Sorbisch obligatorisches Unterrichtsfach ist. In Sachsen gibt es derzeit vier Mittelschulen mit Sorbisch als Lehrvermittlungssprache in Bautzen, Räckelwitz, Ralbitz und in Radibor, sowie eine Mittelschule mit zweisprachigem Unterricht in Schleife. Darüber hinaus wird in drei sächsischen Mittelschulen Sorbisch als Fremdsprache vermittelt. (Stand 2009)

[Skomand]

Prussian-Lithuanians and their language did not make it into the 21st century. The collateral damage brought about by the Red Army invasion of Eastern Germany was their end.

Their grammars and newspapers are in archives now.

Grammarwise modern Lithuanian derives from Prussian-Lithuanian. The first grammar appeared in modern Lithuania only as late as 1906.

* Daniel Klein: ''Compendium Lituanico-Germanicum, Oder Kurtze und gantz deutliche Anführung zur Littauischen Sprache.'' Königsberg 1654
http://gluosnis.vu.lt/biblio/dperziura.pradzia?nr=36

* Philipp Ruhig: ''Littauisch-deutsches und Deutsch-littauisches Wörterbuch.'' Königsberg 1800 (mit einem Nachwort von Immanuel Kant) http://www.archive.org/stream/littauischdeuts00ruhigoog

* Christian Mielcke: ''Anfangsgründe einer littauischen Sprachlehre''. Königsberg 1800 http://books.google.de/books?id=2yFb...age&q=&f=false

* Friedrich Kurschat: ''Beiträge zur Kunde der littauischen Sprache.'' Erstes Heft: ''Deutsch-littauische Phraseologie der Präpositionen.'' Königsberg 1843, Zweites Heft: ''Laut- und Tonlehre der littauischen Sprache.'' Königsberg 1849
http://books.google.de/books?id=8mpb...age&q=&f=false

* August Schleicher: ''Handbuch der litauischen Sprache.'' 2 Bde., 1856/57 http://books.google.com/books?ie=UTF...tsec=2&lpg=PR2

* Friedrich Kurschat: ''Grammatik der Littauischen Sprache.'' Halle 1876 http://www.archive.org/details/gramm...rlit01kursgoog

* Friedrich Becker: ''Der kleine Littauer.Das Wichtigste aus der Sprachlehre, mehrere alphabetisch geordnete Wortregister und 200 Sprichworte. Zum Anfangsgebrauch bei Erlernung der littauischen Umgangssprache für verschiedene Geschäftsverhältnisse''. Tilsit 1866
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biDeta...RecordId=24692

* Christoph Jurkschat: ''Kurze deutsche Grammatik oder Sprachlehre für preußische und russische Littauer, sowie Szameiten zum rechten Erlernen der deutschen Sprache''. Tilsit 1900 http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biReco...RecordId=35001

* J.Schiekopp / Alexander Kurschat: ''Litauische Elementar-Grammatik''. Tilsit 1901.
Teil I: Formenlehre
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biReco...RecordId=24973
Teil II: Syntax http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biDeta...RecordId=35590

* Ernst Schwentner: ''Die Wortfolge im Litauischen''. Heidelberg 1922 http://www.archive.org/details/diewo...imli00schwuoft
* Oskar Wiedemann: ''Handbuch der litauischen Sprache.'' Strassburg 1897
http://www.archive.org/stream/handbuchderlita01wiedgoog

* Jonas Pipirs: ''Lithauische Sprachlehre mit Berücksichtigung des Selbstunterrichts. Erster Theil.'' Memel 1899
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biReco...RecordId=30443
* Maxim Voelkel: ''Litauisches Elementarbuch.'' Heidelberg 1900
http://www.archive.org/stream/litauischeseleme00vluoft

* Wilhelm Steputat: Litauischer Sprachführer. Tilsit 1916
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biReco...RecordId=28117

* August Leskien: Litauisches Lesebuch mit Grammatik und Wörterbuch. Heidelberg 1919
http://www.archive.org/stream/litaui...eseb00leskrich

* A.Seidel: ''Grammatik der litauischen Sprache.'' Wien und Leipzig 1915
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biReco...RecordId=28138
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Keleiwis. Königsberg 1849–1880. Verantwortlicher Redakteur Friedrich Kurschat, Verlag und Druck Emil Rautenberg
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biSerial.do?biRecordId=8022



Lietuwiszka ceitunga. Klaipeda 1877–1940. Verantwortlicher Redakteur Martin Szernus
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biSerial.do?biRecordId=7435



Tilžės keleiwis. Tilsit 1883–1924. Verantwortlicher Redakteur Johann Ferdinand Kelch
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biSerial.do?biRecordId=4473



Nauja lietuwiszka ceitunga. 1890–1923
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biSerial.do?biRecordId=4060