R1b1a2 & Tutankhamun

[Belenus]

I'm not that knowledgeable about genetics, so I had a question about an article (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/08/01/oukoe-uk-britain-tutankhamun-dna-idUKTRE7704OR20110801) I read recently.

Apparently, the Egyptian royals belonged to the haplogroup R1b1a2, which is strongest on the Atlantic coast of Europe.

I was wondering, is the Atlantid phenotype most often associated with R1b1a2? Or Mediterranid, or Atlantomed, or what?

In any case, I think there's a good chance my haplogroup not only built the megaliths, became the Celts, conquered the New World, etc. but they also reigned in ancient Egypt as Pharaohs, which is all kinds of awesome.

Thanks.

[Onur]

So, did we finally able to whitewash the most advanced brown society in the world? Hurray for the white power !!!

OR wait...

Does that mean western Europeans are just whitewashed brownies?

Which one is correct?

[arcticwolf]

So, did we finally able to whitewash the most advanced brown society in the world? Hurray for the white power !!!

OR wait...

Does that mean western Europeans are just whitewashed brownies?

Which one is correct?


Onur I hate to agree with you but I must! :D

I think R1b is common in Africa, unlike R1a. :laugh:

[Damião de Góis]

Apparently, the Egyptian royals belonged to the haplogroup R1b1a2, which is strongest on the Atlantic coast of Europe.


No, you wont find R1b1a2 in western Europe. The suclades are different and much longer in size. The three major ones are:

R1b-S116
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/THq_t3eR6JI/AAAAAAAACjg/ECinYNcEUB8/s400/s116.jpg

R1b-u106:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/THYYn0iOp2I/AAAAAAAACiw/GTn5liL2F68/s400/u106.jpg

R1b-u152
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/THY988BUM3I/AAAAAAAACi4/PEATYyVuzig/s400/u152.jpg

[Sikeliot]

R1b1a2 is Anatolian type of R1b, is it not?

Also, R1b is common in Cameroon or Chad, I forget which. How do we know his haplogroup was not of that variety?

[Damião de Góis]

R1b1a2 is Anatolian type of R1b, is it not?

Also, R1b is common in Cameroon or Chad, I forget which. How do we know his haplogroup was not of that variety?

R1b-V88, a subclade specific to sub-Saharan Africa, is found in 60 to 95% of men in northern Cameroon.

[EagleAtHeart]

R1b1a2 is found in the Balkins and Anatolia.

That sounds about right. Lets be honest, there's only two races on the planet that could have created Egypt: East Asians and Europeans, and it appears the ruling class were a mixture of such. In the latter part of their dynasty there was race mixing, especially with slaves from the Nubian tribes,and that's what brought it to ruin.

Also, there's some question as to why Egyptians depicted themselves the way they did, for example, Cleopatra:

How the Egytians depicted her:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/%D0%9A%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%80%D 0%B0_VII.jpg

How she really looked:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg

^Here she looks like a Balkanite.

[Anusiya]

R1b1a2 is found in the Balkins and Anatolia.

That sounds about right. Lets be honest, there's only two races on the planet that could have created Egypt: East Asians and Europeans, and it appears the ruling class were a mixture of such. In the latter part of their dynasty there was race mixing, especially with slaves from the Nubian tribes,and that's what brought it to ruin.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg

^Here she looks like a Balkanite.


Cleopatra is like one of the last rulers of Egypt and she was Greek. Egypt spans a history of at least 5000 years. Some time in the late Bronze Age Greek trade cities were formed and they started exchanging populations and culture.

But the early inhabitants of Egypt couldn't differ from the rest of the Mediterranean atlandid peoples living across the coasts. Perhaps they had more Semitic and African influx.

I don't know but for some reason, this bust seems legit.

[Insuperable]

R1b1a2 is found in the Balkins and Anatolia.

That sounds about right. Lets be honest, there's only two races on the planet that could have created Egypt: East Asians and Europeans, and it appears the ruling class were a mixture of such. In the latter part of their dynasty there was race mixing, especially with slaves from the Nubian tribes,and that's what brought it to ruin.


While I agree with what you said here how did you come up with East Asian part?

[EagleAtHeart]

While I agree with what you said here how did you come up with East Asian part?

I read years ago when studying Egypt that there was a theory that East Asians may have migrated through Anatolia and made it to Egypt. I can't find a source of this now through a cursory search of Google. Maybe tomorrow when I'm less tired I'll try again to find it.

[Insuperable]

I read years ago when studying Egypt that there was a theory that East Asians may have migrated through Anatolia and made it to Egypt. I can't find a source of this now through a cursory search of Google. Maybe tomorrow when I'm less tired I'll try again to find it.

Professional source or random Internet blogger source?

[Comte Arnau]

I personally think those who reconstructed it some years ago aren't probably that far from the truth.

http://images.sciencedaily.com/2005/05/050511133510.jpg

http://www.guardians.net/hawass/Tut/images/Tut%201.%20French%20Team.jpg

That is, Egyptian. Not European, not African, and not Arab yet.

[Belenus]

Onur I hate to agree with you but I must! :D

I think R1b is common in Africa, unlike R1a. :laugh:

Probably this was a joke but if it wasn't...

The R1b population of Western Europe is quite obviously not 'white-washed brown'. They've been in Europe longer than the R1a haplogroup, so who would have been around to 'white-wash' them? It's fairly clear to me that R1b Europeans ruled as the élite in Egypt, and some probably even ventured further south into Africa at some point, which could explain the R1b presence there. Alternatively the R1b group in Africa just evolved completely separately.

Negroids rarely built more than mud huts. There's no conceivable way they could have been the ancestors of the Spanish, French, British etc. To even suggest as much is absurd. Western Europe hosts the strongest and most developed nations in the history of this planet. Clearly it was the white R1b haplogroup which founded and ruled Egypt, and there were definitely never Africans so far north in Europe.

[Onur]

Western Europe hosts the strongest and most developed nations in the history of this planet.
This is absolutely wrong because quite contrary, western Europe was the least developed section of the world before 15-16th century. The western Europe is in fact the latest developed section of the world, maybe thats why you think like that was always the case throughout history but that wasn't the case.

The western Europe was able to develop only after protestant reformation, renaissance and industrial revolution thanks to the rich Andalusian libraries and European scholars who mastered Arabic language, but before that, it was the least developed place on earth.

The Roman empire was advanced thanks to it`s ancient Greek heritage but they quickly gone backwards after they accepted christianity because medieval church was dogmatic and anti-scientific. They destroyed their own scientific heritage because they considered that knowledge as sin. They rediscovered science after 1200 years of backwardness during the religious dogmatic rule.


I can say that even the isolated American Indians was much more advanced than western Europeans because when Mayas and Incas was building pyramids and observing the star and planet movements, western Europe was suffering in backwardness, diseases and poverty.

[Insuperable]

This is absolutely wrong because quite contrary, western Europe was the least developed section of the world before 15-16th century. The western Europe is in fact the latest developed section of the world, maybe thats why you think like that was always the case throughout history but that wasn't the case.

The western Europe was able to develop only after protestant reformation, renaissance and industrial revolution thanks to the rich Andalusian libraries and European scholars who mastered Arabic language, but before that, it was the least developed place on earth.

The Roman empire was advanced thanks to it`s ancient Greek heritage but they quickly gone backwards after they accepted christianity because medieval church was dogmatic and anti-scientific. They destroyed their own scientific heritage because they considered that knowledge as sin. They rediscovered science after 1200 years of backwardness during the religious dogmatic rule.


I can say that even the isolated American Indians was much more advanced than western Europeans because when Mayas and Incas was building pyramids and observing the star and planet movements, western Europe was suffering in backwardness, diseases and poverty.

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?
Are we talking about Egypt or about post Greek times and Christian times?

Westen Europe is the most advanced part of the planet and nobody gives a fuck about 10th or 15th century and anyway since you explained why it was backwards during that time why do you have to mention it in the first place since what you said has zero connection with the topic?

[Belenus]

In terms of the size of empires and the amount of technological innovation, the Western Europeans are the mightiest and most intellectually active people in history. Yes, they stood upon the shoulders of those who came before them, but they stood much higher. Since the rise to world dominance of Western Europeans, technology and cultural sophistication has sky-rocketed like never before. The rate of advance since the discovery by Columbus of the New World has been radically faster than at any earlier period. As powerful as the Romans were, their technological development over millennia was minor. The same applies to every pre-Western civilisation.

The predominantly Celtic nations of Europe have had the most decisive influence in shaping the modern world. To think otherwise is just ignorant.

I'll grant that it's true that Western Europe wasn't always as developed as it became in the last few hundred years. But at the same time, it was never weak. The Romans couldn't fully subjugate the Celts of Britain, and the mostly-Gallic French were one of the most powerful countries of the Middle Ages. Spain defeated the Almohads and threw Islam back into the desert. The fact is that various plagues kept Europe weak for a number of centuries. Once we overcame them, there was nothing holding us back, and we conquered almost the entire world while advancing technology by leaps and bounds in a very short time.

[Artek]

Probably this was a joke but if it wasn't...

The R1b population of Western Europe is quite obviously not 'white-washed brown'. They've been in Europe longer than the R1a haplogroup, so who would have been around to 'white-wash' them? It's fairly clear to me that R1b Europeans ruled as the élite in Egypt, and some probably even ventured further south into Africa at some point, which could explain the R1b presence there. Alternatively the R1b group in Africa just evolved completely separately.
There were many dynasties ruling in Egypt and only one has Y-DNA test done. Most of them were probably J1, E1b, J2 etc. Tutankhamun's R1b isn't much European either, rather West Asian-like.

Negroids rarely built more than mud huts. There's no conceivable way they could have been the ancestors of the Spanish, French, British etc. To even suggest as much is absurd. Western Europe hosts the strongest and most developed nations in the history of this planet. Clearly it was the white R1b haplogroup which founded and ruled Egypt, and there were definitely never Africans so far north in Europe.
I have no doubt that Negroids were primitive, at least to some extent. But I clearly doubt that "Europeans" founded Egypt. This state was found by the people called now "Middle Easterners".

[Geni]

Have all polsky chest mania ???: D

[Damião de Góis]

This is absolutely wrong because quite contrary, western Europe was the least developed section of the world before 15-16th century. The western Europe is in fact the latest developed section of the world, maybe thats why you think like that was always the case throughout history but that wasn't the case.

The western Europe was able to develop only after protestant reformation, renaissance and industrial revolution thanks to the rich Andalusian libraries and European scholars who mastered Arabic language, but before that, it was the least developed place on earth.


Protestants and industrial revolution had nothing to do with Andalusian libraries. Before the industrial revolution in 1750-1850, several western european countries had global empires, so i wouldn't say it was the least developed place on earth.




I can say that even the isolated American Indians was much more advanced than western Europeans because when Mayas and Incas was building pyramids and observing the star and planet movements, western Europe was suffering in backwardness, diseases and poverty.

The Mayans are from the same period as the roman empire. As for the Incas, you could say the had they were unfortunate to meet a more advanced civilization than them.. which meant their end.

[kabeiros]

How she really looked:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg

^Here she looks like a Balkanite.
Have you never heard the story about Cleopatra being an inbred Greek Empress of the Ptolemaic Dynasty? She didn't have a single drop of negroid or Egyptian blood

[Demhat]

The R1b* Tutankhamun belongs to is similar to that found in the Levant and Southern Anatolia.

[Comte Arnau]

His father:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/PortraitStudyOfAkhenaten-ThutmoseWorkshop_EgyptianMuseumBerlin.png/471px-PortraitStudyOfAkhenaten-ThutmoseWorkshop_EgyptianMuseumBerlin.png

His mother:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/TheYoungerLady-61072-RightProfileView-PlateXCIX-TheRoyalMummies-1912.gif

His grandpa: (the father of both his father and mother)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Colossal_Amenhotep_III_British_Museum.jpg/427px-Colossal_Amenhotep_III_British_Museum.jpg

His grandma:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/QueenTiy01-AltesMuseum-Berlin.png