How long does it take for melanin genes to kick in after a fair-pigmented population moves south?

[Zenobi Nieświcki]

How many generations?

[EagleAtHeart]

How much melanin? You mean a fair pigmented person to start looking like a South American?

I think some cross-breeding would be required for that.

Eskimos have lived in the Arctic for 5000 years now? They haven't evolved blonde hair, blue eyes, and fair pigmentation yet.

[Sarmatian]

There is no answer to this question because the idea of adaptation changes is nothing but theory. There were no successful experiments to prove it.

There are some changes observed but so far they are very inconsistent to develop any reasonable understanding of mechanisms involved.

[Anglojew]

How much melanin? You mean a fair pigmented person to start looking like a South American?

I think some cross-breeding would be required for that.

Eskimos have lived in the Arctic for 5000 years now? They haven't evolved blonde hair, blue eyes, and fair pigmentation yet.

You're making a mistake, the Eskimo's did evolve for their conditions although the mutations weren't the same as Nordics. Eskimo's evolved round faces and short limbs (smallest surface areas), fat retention, straight hair (opposite of the frizzy hair of the tropics) to stay warmer, the Epicanthic fold for sleet and snow etc. Nordics had a parallel mutation with blonde hair and lighter skin allowed Vitamin D absorption and blue eyes have advantages in hunting in snowy conditions. Simply they both evolved for their climates but differently.

Desert peoples (Jews, Arabs etc) have larger noses to cool the air when breathing incidently while I would imagine there are advantages to the wide negro nose in tropical conditions?

[Sarmatian]

You're making a mistake, the Eskimo's did evolve for their conditions although the mutations weren't the same as Nordics. Eskimo's evolved round faces and short limbs (smallest surface areas), fat retention, straight hair (opposite of the frizzy hair of the tropics) to stay warmer, the Epicanthic fold for sleet and snow etc. Nordics had a parallel mutation with blonde hair and lighter skin allowed Vitamin D absorption and blue eyes have advantages in hunting in snowy conditions. Simply they both evolved for their climates but differently.

Desert peoples (Jews, Arabs etc) have larger noses to cool the air when breathing incidently while I would imagine there are advantages to the wide negro nose in tropical conditions?

If Eskimos developed all these traits as adaptation to cold snowy climate of far North, how would you explain development of exactly same traits in Chinese?

[Rouxinol]

It might happen or it might never happen - that is, a mutation that leads a fair population to turn darker. Afrikaners are still fair despite having moved to South Africa centuries ago. The same with white Australians. This, despite the fact that white Australians are among the most skin cancer affected populations in the world. In our modern world it is unlikely that a mutation will be natural selected and spread as it would have been like in "primitive" populations. The degree of interbreeding is far less as well. Modern humans in modern societies choose their partners based more on other aspects such as wealth and power and will likely mate with only one partner to the rest of their lives. So, the perception of a mutation that might be convenient is quite different from the one of several thousands of years ago.

[Dombra]

How about the opposite?

[ficuscarica]

The "problem" is that there is no natural selection, because we can avoid the sun, use sunblocker, get cancer treatments, etc.
Otherwise I would guess a considerable change could be observed after maybe around 500 years.

[safinator]

The "problem" is that there is no natural selection, because we can avoid the sun, use sunblocker, get cancer treatments, etc.
Otherwise I would guess a considerable change could be observed after maybe around 500 years.
Not really, see Boers in South Africa.

[Rouxinol]

Not really, see Boers in South Africa.

If the Boers were transplanted to pre-historical times they would probably have turned darker. Paler people would start dying out of cancer and the darkest would be selected over the fairest. They just don't nor will because our society is not based on natural selection anymore. There's not a male that dominates a bunch of females, females now also choose their partners and other factors such as the ones ficuscarica and I listed are brought into account as well.

[ficuscarica]

They arrived there 200-350 years ago, not 500.
And we are speaking about a relatively developed group of people, that would have been able to protect itself from skin cancer pretty well.

Also, the South African sun isn´t that strong. South Africa is far away from the tropic regions, and more comparable to Southern Spain or Morocco.

We have a similar situation in Australia. The settlements mainly were created in the southern part, which is closer to Southern Europe than to the tropics in terms of climate. And the North European population there is only 200-250 years old.

[Belenus]

We have a similar situation in Australia. The settlements mainly were created in the southern part, which is closer to Southern Europe than to the tropics in terms of climate. And the North European population there is only 200-250 years old.

And in the north of Australia, white people still look completely typical for any European.

Modern society really doesn't have much natural selection going on. Our technological prowess has shielded us from most of nature's perils. Selection these days is almost entirely a social affair, with intellect, wealth, and various cultural influences (including the ever-shifting waves of fashion and celebrity) being the determining factors in mate selection. People are unlikely to change their skin colour these days for environmental reasons, but rather due to miscegenation, which is heavily promoted by subversive elements within our societies.

[Hayalet]

Eskimos have lived in the Arctic for 5000 years now? They haven't evolved blonde hair, blue eyes, and fair pigmentation yet.
Actually, those traits are thought to have originated in mild and cloudy conditions, not at all like the Arctic.


If Eskimos developed all these traits as adaptation to cold snowy climate of far North, how would you explain development of exactly same traits in Chinese?
I believe Mongoloid as a whole is considered cold adaptation. With additional tropical adaptation in some subtypes, such as Southeast Asians.

[Englisc]

Depends on diet, I suppose.

[Blackout]

Depends on diet, I suppose.

How would someone's diet, influence their skin colour?

Edit :

Unless they drink 'Sunny Delight' ! :rofl_002:

[Rouxinol]

How would someone's diet, influence their skin colour? :rofl_002:

Actually if you eat too much carrot your skin starts to turn yellowish due to beta-carotene accumulation. It's even used in auto-tanning pharmaceutical formulations.

[Blackout]

Actually if you eat too much carrot your skin starts to turn yellowish due to beta-carotene accumulation. It's even used in auto-tanning pharmaceutical formulations.

:thumb001:

One of them had too many carrots!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kx19ma46X81qa9ou3o1_400.jpg

Just joking, i know what you mean. I don't think the offspring would inherit this however.

[Rouxinol]

Just joking, i know what you mean. I don't think the offspring would inherit this however.

Yes, you're correct. Lamarckian theories were proven wrong a long ago.

[Incel King]

God made us fair-pigmented not some lame pseudo-scientific natural selection alpha male domination nonsense. Only truly degenerated dark individual would believe in that alpha-male domination shit. That's nothing but communist pseudo-science. Fair pigmented population will stay fair pigmented population forever.

[Belenus]

God made us fair-pigmented not some lame pseudo-scientific natural selection alpha male domination nonsense. Only truly degenerated dark individual would believe in that alpha-male domination shit. That's nothing but communist pseudo-science. Fair pigmented population will stay fair pigmented population forever.

Actually, Creationism is pseudo-science. But hey, to each his own.

[Englisc]

God made us fair-pigmented not some lame pseudo-scientific natural selection alpha male domination nonsense.
It's not about alpha male domination. There is a clear gradient of skin colour going from darkest in hot regions to lightest in cold regions.

Atleast you call natural selection "psuedo-scientific", creationism doesn't have any science behind it at all. ;)

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c317/Yoshi1684/04-skin-color-map_cl.png

[Smaug]

How much melanin? You mean a fair pigmented person to start looking like a South American?

I think some cross-breeding would be required for that.

Eskimos have lived in the Arctic for 5000 years now? They haven't evolved blonde hair, blue eyes, and fair pigmentation yet.

Yes, but Eskimos haven't developed fair complexion because it's interesting keepind dark in places that are covered with snow most of the year, because snow reflects sun light and it burns almost as much as if you were in Sahara.

Europeans that live in the far North kept or developed their light features to compensate the lack of sun light, but the thing is: there's no eternal snow in the ground to reflect sunlight, so being lighter helps in this case.

Even epicanthic fold can be seen as a protection against excess of sun light in snow-covered regions.