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Slycooper
11-30-2012, 11:43 AM
Native Portuguese have lived in the Azores for 600 years now. Will they ever adapt and start to look different from the mainland Portuguese? How long will it take if yes?

Artek
11-30-2012, 08:32 PM
Native Portuguese have lived in the Azores for 600 years now. Will they ever adapt and start to look different from the mainland Portuguese? How long will it take if yes?

Everything depends on how token Portuguese population looked like, then on eventual population bottleknecks (if there were any) or fertility rate of certain people (founder effects). Later migrations from mainland Portugal influenced early settlers population as well.
I don't know how exactly Azorean climate looks like. If there is a huge UV amount, selection favors darker individuals. That's probably all.

Sikeliot
11-30-2012, 08:36 PM
I don't think they will. I think the divergence was too recent for us to within our lifetimes see a difference.

The question could better be asked about Madeira, since they have more non-Portuguese ancestry than the Azoreans do.

Rouxinol
11-30-2012, 08:39 PM
No, they won't change, unless a catastrophe occurs and we go back into primeval days. Today's selective pressures are not based anymore of the survival of the fittest in the pure phenotypical sense: e.g. UV is high, you're dark, you're more likely to survive and produce offspring with that trait that will be also more likely to survive. This is to say that in modern days natural selection basically plays no role. People will not mate based on features that may be more suitable in a certain environment, for instance. In the modern world and developed societies selection is made almost entirely on a social level: power, wealth, intelligence, etc.

Riki
11-30-2012, 09:14 PM
Native Portuguese have lived in the Azores for 600 years now. Will they ever adapt and start to look different from the mainland Portuguese? How long will it take if yes?

Is there anything to adapt to?

Atlantic Islander
12-01-2012, 12:19 AM
If there is a huge UV amount, selection favors darker individuals. That's probably all.

The climate is different.



What can we expect?

The weather in the Azores is changeable! The islands enjoy a mild temperate climate throughout the year and benefit from the Gulf Stream; a current of warm water that heads north east from the Gulf of Mexico. The average air temperature varies between 11 and 26°C depending on the time of year and the surrounding ocean averages between 15 and 25°C. Being so far out in the Atlantic, the islands are prone to rainy days at any time of year, and without these showers of course, you could not enjoy the beautiful flora on the islands.
November to March

You can expect to have some bright sunny days, a few wet and windy days and some overcast and cloudy days, with average temperatures of between 11 and 17°C.
April to May & September to October

You can expect consistently warmer weather, brighter sunnier days with average temperatures of between 11 and 24°C.
June to August

You can expect lovely warm sunny days with average temperatures of between 15 and 26°C (with some days reaching 30°C). It can be quite humid especially on the coast or in areas where there is a lot of vegetation.
Warning!

If you are looking for a beach holiday with guaranteed sun, then the Azores are not the right destination for you. However, if you are looking for a holiday where visiting the beach is just one of many activities, then the Azores might well be the perfect destination!



In the winter the average daytime temperatures are from 12-16 degrees Celsius (54-62 Fahrenheit). So you will never see snow on the Azores (unless you climb the mountain on Pico of course).

The average temperatures vary from 11 to 25 degrees Celsius depending on the time of year. In the summer months of June through to September the temperature tends to range from 17 to 25 degrees Celsius.

The wettest months are from October to March but you can expect rain on virtually any visit to the islands. Even the sunniest summer day can be interrupted by rain clouds rolling over the island. And even the wettest winter day can be interrupted by a beautiful couple of hours of sunshine. So pack accordingly by bringing layers of clothing and plan to bring a coat along as you explore the island. A light coat can make the difference between being comfortable or uncomfortable, especially if there is a good breeze coming off the ocean or if you are at a higher altitude enjoying the scenery.

There tends to be light cloud cover over the islands on many days.

The Islands benefit from the East Gulf Stream which brings warm ocean water. The oceans temperature ranges from 17 Celsius in the winter to 25 Celsius in the summer. This makes for very comfortable temperatures for swimming in the ocean during the summer.



The Azores has a particular climate. It never gets too hot, neither too cold. The days are slightly unpredictable, however, with sunny mornings transforming into cloudy afternoons. The weather here is influenced by what is known as the “Azores High”. This is an anticyclone region with high pressure, located slightly to the North or slightly to the South of the Azores. Generally the weather here is softer than in mainland Portugal or western Europe.

There is a clear difference between the summer and the rest of the year. Temperatures don’t seem to rise above 20ºC form November through to May and then shoot right up to reach an average maximum of 26ºC in August.

The minimum temperatures are very mild also, with the lowest average being in February, generally not reaching below 10ºC.

With this mild climate, the islands maintain their naturally lush green flora all year round.



Climate

The archipelago is spread out in the area between 37° N and the parallels of latitude that pass through the Lisbon area (38° 43' / 38° 55' N), giving it generally a tepid, oceanic, subtropical climate, with mild annual oscillations. Daily maximum temperatures usually range between 15 °C (59 °F) and 25 °C (77 °F). The average annual rainfall increases from east to west, and it ranges from 700 to 1600 annual millimetres (27.6–63 in) on average, reaching 6,300 millimetres (250 in) on Mount Pico,[27] the highest Portuguese mountain at 2,351 m (7,713 ft). The Azores high, an area of high atmospheric pressure, is named after the islands.

In addition, the Instituto de Meteorologia has identified the following weather extremes:

Highest minimum air temperature: 24.3 °C (75.7 °F), in Angra do Heroísmo, Terceira (30 June 1996)
Lowest minimum air temperature: −3.5 °C (25.7 °F), in Chã das Lagoinhas, São Miguel (2 January 1973)
Highest maximum air temperature: 32.1 °C (89.8 °F), in Madalena, Pico (7 September 1985)
Lowest maximum air temperature: 4.0 °C (39.2 °F), Chã das Lagoinhas, São Miguel (20 February 1972)
Maximum precipitation in 24 hours: 27.6 cm (10.87 in), Furnas, São Miguel (3 October 1974)
Maximum wind speed: >168 km/hour, Angra do Heroísmo, (Terceira 2 November 1995)[29]

It rains off an on randomly and without warning, it's something you have to get used to. I was watching a video the other day and someone said something along the lines of "a true Azorean woman is at home in the rain".

Slycooper
12-01-2012, 12:24 AM
What island are you from Plastictuga?

Atlantic Islander
12-01-2012, 12:26 AM
Is there anything to adapt to?

Only the climate and natural disasters.

Atlantic Islander
12-01-2012, 12:27 AM
What island are you from Plastictuga?

I was born in Sao Jorge, and lived there and then on Terceira before moving to the US.

Slycooper
12-01-2012, 12:29 AM
I was born in Sao Jorge, and lived there and then on Terceira before moving to the US.

oh. I didn't know you were born there. Nice:)

evon
12-01-2012, 12:30 AM
Are you very inbred using the ROH calculator plastictuga? also, my granny has a 5,3cM match from the Azores, so they must have had some population movement during the middle ages or so:)

Albion
12-01-2012, 12:30 AM
If England gets ruined then I'll sneak off to Portugal, probably the Azores. It sounds like a lovely place. Portugal as a whole is very nice, but the Azores feel more like home (probably the rain and how green they are - they look a bit like Ireland or Western England).

evon
12-01-2012, 12:37 AM
I could only ever live along the Atlantic coast line, i am addicted to rain and mild climate:)

Albion
12-01-2012, 12:50 AM
I could only ever live along the Atlantic coast line, i am addicted to rain and mild climate:)

What about the Pacific NW or NZ - similar climates there too.

evon
12-01-2012, 12:53 AM
What about the Pacific NW or NZ - similar climates there too.

I dont want to leave Europe, i am too connected here, its where my ancestry has been for so long we are at one with it, i would only leave if i was forced to...But i could visit those places yes:)

Atlantic Islander
12-01-2012, 12:55 AM
Are you very inbred using the ROH calculator plastictuga?

I'm not as inbred as I could be, because my father is from the mainland:




ROHs of length at least 200 will be reported.

No-Call runs of length at least 10 will be reported.

No-Calls will be treated as homozygous.
Heterozygous SNPs that are at least 150 SNPs away from the nearest heterozygous SNP will be treated as homozygous.

Chr 11 has a No-Call run of length 17 from position 55373973 to position 55427700 (53.73 Kb)
Chr Y has a No-Call run of length 1766 from position 2649694 to position 59032809 (56383.11 Kb)

Chr 1 has a ROH of length 421 from position 102389733 to position 104311712 ( 1.92 Mb)
Chr 1 has a ROH of length 216 from position 209012975 to position 209603252 ( 0.59 Mb)
Chr 2 has a ROH of length 203 from position 31587235 to position 32112652 ( 0.53 Mb)
Chr 2 has a ROH of length 412 from position 47590034 to position 47773960 ( 0.18 Mb) (1 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous)
Chr 2 has a ROH of length 200 from position 49141838 to position 49498006 ( 0.36 Mb)
Chr 3 has a ROH of length 216 from position 37034770 to position 37067495 ( 0.03 Mb)
Chr 3 has a ROH of length 319 from position 48612549 to position 50080439 ( 1.47 Mb)
Chr 3 has a ROH of length 261 from position 119275098 to position 119824166 ( 0.55 Mb)
Chr 3 has a ROH of length 206 from position 130322553 to position 131251079 ( 0.93 Mb)
Chr 3 has a ROH of length 251 from position 159851200 to position 160939817 ( 1.09 Mb)
Chr 4 has a ROH of length 216 from position 90435011 to position 91102650 ( 0.67 Mb)
Chr 5 has a ROH of length 243 from position 3575370 to position 4161404 ( 0.59 Mb)
Chr 5 has a ROH of length 344 from position 23104936 to position 24496862 ( 1.39 Mb)
Chr 5 has a ROH of length 241 from position 45147057 to position 50165848 ( 5.02 Mb)
Chr 5 has a ROH of length 209 from position 111983052 to position 112302521 ( 0.32 Mb)
Chr 5 has a ROH of length 613 from position 129579206 to position 131995606 ( 2.42 Mb) (1 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous)
Chr 6 has a ROH of length 244 from position 17746513 to position 18369224 ( 0.62 Mb)
Chr 6 has a ROH of length 209 from position 54256680 to position 54839594 ( 0.58 Mb)
Chr 6 has a ROH of length 202 from position 69294485 to position 69898036 ( 0.60 Mb)
Chr 6 has a ROH of length 230 from position 83321765 to position 84217168 ( 0.90 Mb)
Chr 7 has a ROH of length 322 from position 64225274 to position 66466119 ( 2.24 Mb)
Chr 7 has a ROH of length 276 from position 117064625 to position 117451124 ( 0.39 Mb)
Chr 8 has a ROH of length 211 from position 20634750 to position 21138707 ( 0.50 Mb)
Chr 8 has a ROH of length 222 from position 24457899 to position 24970519 ( 0.51 Mb)
Chr 8 has a ROH of length 444 from position 49949807 to position 51980821 ( 2.03 Mb)
Chr 8 has a ROH of length 225 from position 80841972 to position 81825137 ( 0.98 Mb)
Chr 9 has a ROH of length 204 from position 72658280 to position 73397090 ( 0.74 Mb)
Chr 9 has a ROH of length 216 from position 75519371 to position 75793444 ( 0.27 Mb)
Chr 11 has a ROH of length 336 from position 5246512 to position 5322737 ( 0.08 Mb) (1 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous)
Chr 11 has a ROH of length 365 from position 47752775 to position 51392716 ( 3.64 Mb)
Chr 11 has a ROH of length 370 from position 55483652 to position 56626151 ( 1.14 Mb)
Chr 11 has a ROH of length 274 from position 89822105 to position 90796002 ( 0.97 Mb)
Chr 11 has a ROH of length 226 from position 110016519 to position 110747785 ( 0.73 Mb)
Chr 11 has a ROH of length 206 from position 117788313 to position 118145686 ( 0.36 Mb)
Chr 12 has a ROH of length 274 from position 111618332 to position 113025901 ( 1.41 Mb)
Chr 13 has a ROH of length 267 from position 83161193 to position 84089207 ( 0.93 Mb)
Chr 15 has a ROH of length 258 from position 51057181 to position 51677560 ( 0.62 Mb)
Chr 16 has a ROH of length 351 from position 2103341 to position 2133818 ( 0.03 Mb)
Chr 20 has a ROH of length 377 from position 32764183 to position 34560609 ( 1.80 Mb) (1 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous)
Chr 20 has a ROH of length 256 from position 44076853 to position 44674283 ( 0.60 Mb)
Chr 21 has a ROH of length 504 from position 29980144 to position 31543624 ( 1.56 Mb)
Chr X has a ROH of length 204 from position 22624292 to position 23154712 ( 0.53 Mb)
Chr X has a ROH of length 237 from position 125821224 to position 127777221 ( 1.96 Mb)
Chr X has a ROH of length 362 from position 153710540 to position 154752980 ( 1.04 Mb)
Chr Y has a ROH of length 1766 from position 2649694 to position 59032809 (56.38 Mb)

Chr 1: 71.031 % (54629 of 76909 SNPs) are homozygous, 174 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 2: 69.068 % (53421 of 77346 SNPs) are homozygous, 181 No-Calls, 1 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 3: 70.156 % (44398 of 63285 SNPs) are homozygous, 130 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 4: 67.988 % (37405 of 55017 SNPs) are homozygous, 132 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 5: 70.431 % (39455 of 56019 SNPs) are homozygous, 134 No-Calls, 1 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 6: 69.436 % (43914 of 63244 SNPs) are homozygous, 173 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 7: 70.021 % (35686 of 50965 SNPs) are homozygous, 146 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 8: 69.670 % (34288 of 49215 SNPs) are homozygous, 134 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 9: 69.753 % (29972 of 42969 SNPs) are homozygous, 96 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 10: 71.104 % (35781 of 50322 SNPs) are homozygous, 114 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 11: 71.131 % (34123 of 47972 SNPs) are homozygous, 119 No-Calls, 1 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 12: 70.035 % (33004 of 47125 SNPs) are homozygous, 118 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 13: 69.923 % (25227 of 36078 SNPs) are homozygous, 83 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 14: 69.339 % (21369 of 30818 SNPs) are homozygous, 82 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 15: 69.792 % (19821 of 28400 SNPs) are homozygous, 81 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 16: 71.770 % (21651 of 30167 SNPs) are homozygous, 74 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 17: 70.908 % (18924 of 26688 SNPs) are homozygous, 57 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 18: 71.774 % (20076 of 27971 SNPs) are homozygous, 62 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 19: 70.830 % (13127 of 18533 SNPs) are homozygous, 45 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 20: 71.918 % (17141 of 23834 SNPs) are homozygous, 42 No-Calls, 1 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 21: 71.456 % ( 9578 of 13404 SNPs) are homozygous, 46 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr 22: 69.617 % ( 9816 of 14100 SNPs) are homozygous, 40 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous

Chr X: 74.003 % (19246 of 26007 SNPs) are homozygous, 64 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
Chr Y: 1766 SNPs, 1766 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous
mtDNA : 2459 SNPs, 12 No-Calls, 0 heterozygous SNPs treated as homozygous

Total autosomal (Chr 1-22): 0.243 % ( 2263 of 930381 SNPs) are NoCalls
Total autosomal (Chr 1-22): 29.835 % (277575 of 930381 SNPs) are Heterozygous (this tally excludes 4 heterozygous SNPs that were treated as homozygous)
Total autosomal (Chr 1-22): 70.165 % (652806 of 930381 SNPs) are Homozygous (this tally includes 4 heterozygous SNPs that were treated as homozygous)




also, my granny has a 5,3cM match from the Azores, so they must have had some population movement during the middle ages or so:)

Ah, that's pretty cool.

evon
12-01-2012, 12:58 AM
Are you on the latest illumina chip? if so you score very high, about as high (or higher) as many Japanese people..

Atlantic Islander
12-01-2012, 01:12 AM
If England gets ruined then I'll sneak off to Portugal, probably the Azores. It sounds like a lovely place. Portugal as a whole is very nice, but the Azores feel more like home (probably the rain and how green they are - they look a bit like Ireland or Western England).

The only downside are the earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

Atlantic Islander
12-01-2012, 01:42 AM
If England gets ruined then I'll sneak off to Portugal, probably the Azores. It sounds like a lovely place. Portugal as a whole is very nice, but the Azores feel more like home (probably the rain and how green they are - they look a bit like Ireland or Western England).

Actually I have to add that it seems some people from there do decide to retire to the Azores for that reason, there's this Scottish guy that retired to Flores with his wife, he likes to post photos on Flickr. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24718842@N04/sets/72157612759668115/)

Riki
12-01-2012, 10:44 AM
Only the climate and natural disasters.

Azores:
Altitude; 79 m (259 ft).
The average temperature in Azores is 17.3 °C (63 °F).
The range of average monthly temperatures is 8 °C.
The warmest average max/ high temperature is 26 °C (79 °F) in August.
The coolest average min/ low temperature is 11 °C (52 °F) in February.
Azores receives on average 958 mm (37.7 in) of precipitation annually or 80 mm (3.1 in) each month.
On balance there are 188 days annually on which greater than 0.1 mm (0.004 in) of precipitation (rain, sleet, snow or hail) occurs or 16 days on an average month.
The month with the driest weather is July when on balance 27 mm (1.1 in) of rain, sleet, hail or snow falls across 10 days.
The month with the wettest weather is January, November when on balance 120 mm (4.7 in) of rainfall (precipitation) occurs.
Mean relative humidity for an average year is recorded as 76.5% and on a monthly basis it ranges from 73% in August to 80% in January & December.
Hours of sunshine range between 2.6 hours per day in January and 6.6 hours per day in August.
On balance there are 1626 sunshine hours annually and approximately 4.5 sunlight hours for each day.
On balance there are 0 days annually with measurable frost and in January there are on average 0 days with frost.

Continental Portugal:
Altitude; 77 m (253 ft).
The average temperature in Portugal is 16.6 °C (62 °F).
The range of average monthly temperatures is 11.5 °C.
The warmest average max/ high temperature is 28 °C (82 °F) in August.
The coolest average min/ low temperature is 8 °C (46 °F) in January & February.
Portugal receives on average 708 mm (27.9 in) of precipitation annually or 59 mm (2.3 in) each month.
On balance there are 113 days annually on which greater than 0.1 mm (0.004 in) of precipitation (rain, sleet, snow or hail) occurs or 9 days on an average month.
The month with the driest weather is July when on balance 3 mm (0.1 in) of rain, sleet, hail or snow falls across 2 days.
The month with the wettest weather is January when on balance 111 mm (4.4 in) of rain, sleet, hail or snow falls across 15 days.
Mean relative humidity for an average year is recorded as 70.0% and on a monthly basis it ranges from 60% in July to 80% in January & December.
Hours of sunshine range between 5.1 hours per day in December and 12.2 hours per day in July.
On balance there are 3023 sunshine hours annually and approximately 8.3 sunlight hours for each day.
On balance there are 0 days annually with measurable frost and in January there are on average 0 days with frost.

Theres not enough difference on the Weather that requires adaptation.
It's not exactly a change from Morroco to Iceland.

Atlantic Islander
12-01-2012, 03:34 PM
Theres not enough difference on the Weather that requires adaptation.
It's not exactly a change from Morroco to Iceland.

True, but that wasn't the point. They said:


If there is a huge UV amount, selection favors darker individuals. That's probably all.

There isn't a huge UV amount, so Azoreans would not end up darker - especially when there's actually less sunshine on average.


Azores:
Hours of sunshine range between 2.6 hours per day in January and 6.6 hours per day in August.
On balance there are 1626 sunshine hours annually and approximately 4.5 sunlight hours for each day.

Continental Portugal:
Hours of sunshine range between 5.1 hours per day in December and 12.2 hours per day in July.
On balance there are 3023 sunshine hours annually and approximately 8.3 sunlight hours for each day.


Either way there hasn't been even close to enough time for any sort of adaptation to occur.

Slycooper
12-01-2012, 03:44 PM
The populaton of the Azores is only 250,000, Most of the population lives on Sao Miguel. About 110,000.

Atlantic Islander
12-01-2012, 04:08 PM
The populaton of the Azores is only 250,000, Most of the population lives on Sao Miguel. About 110,000.

Terceira has a decent amount of people too, 56,000.

Anyway, it doesn't matter how many people there are on the islands, there hasn't been enough time for adaptation.