Native Americans and Northern Europeans more closely related than previously thought

[Pallantides]

Using genetic analyses, scientists have discovered that Northern European populations—including British, Scandinavians, French, and some Eastern Europeans—descend from a mixture of two very different ancestral populations, and one of these populations is related to Native Americans. This discovery helps fill gaps in scientific understanding of both Native American and Northern European ancestry, while providing an explanation for some genetic similarities among what would otherwise seem to be very divergent groups. This research was published in the November 2012 issue of the Genetics Society of America's journal Genetics.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2012-11-native-americans-northern-europeans-previously.html#jCp

[Sikeliot]

Wouldn't it make more sense to think Native Americans have a Northern/Eastern European type component to their genes, like other Central Asian type people do?

[Pallantides]

Wouldn't it make more sense to think Native Americans have a Northern/Eastern European type component to their genes, like other Central Asian type people do?


The study have found Native American/Northeast Eurasian like influence in North Europeans, that some Native Americans have recent European admixture is not a factor in the findings.

[kabeiros]

Wouldn't it make more sense to think Native Americans have a Northern/Eastern European type component to their genes, like other Central Asian type people do?
No, they are not talking about recent European admixture in native Americans but about a shared ancestry between them and Europeans which dates to pre-history. Something like, that the ancient inhabitants of northern Eurasia who later colonized America left some of their DNA in Europe

[pinguino]

Or, maybe it is that Europeans have some Siberian admixture in them. Who knows? Some Europeans look very mongoloid, indeed, and I am not thinking in Russians but in Germans and Brits.

[Pallantides]

Might be linked with Y-DNA haplogroup Q?
http://www.disnorge.no/cms/system/files/offentlige_filer/Haplogroup-Q%20Eupedia.gif

Q1a3 is roughly 4% in South Norway and Sweden.

[arcticwolf]

Wouldn't it make more sense to think Native Americans have a Northern/Eastern European type component to their genes, like other Central Asian type people do?

Don't get us mixed up in this argument! We have nothing to do with this, leave us out of it! :D

[kabeiros]

Might be linked with Y-DNA haplogroup Q?
http://www.disnorge.no/cms/system/files/offentlige_filer/Haplogroup-Q%20Eupedia.gif

Q1a3 is roughly 4% in South Norway and Sweden. Probably, but it could also be haplogroup P from which both R and Q derived. Did they find how old is this shared ancestry?

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

siberia bitchessssssss, native americans are russians FTW!

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

I have long believed and it has been put up before that like people from greenland, Native Americans are distant relatives of siberians and maybe even russians.

[Han Cholo]

Thanks. I have discovered I'm full European now. I can brag it to IM.

[Pallantides]

Thanks. I have discovered I'm full European now. I can brag it to IM.

How does North and some East Europeans having some ancient Amerindian like ancestry, make you more European? :p

[Han Cholo]

How does North and some East Europeans having some ancient Amerindian like ancestry, make you more European? :p

Well, it certainly makes them more like me. Though like you said, doesn't necessarily mean I'm more like them, though I'm sure many whackos would interpretate it that way.

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

Native Americans are an extension of the Sammi people, the true nobles

[Pallantides]

Native Americans are an extension of the Sammi people, the true nobles

Don't troll in this thread, any non-constructive or unrelated posts will be removed.

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

It is related to this post completely man, what is the first post about? Native Americans are related to northern Europeans, aka Sammi most likely!

[Supreme American]

No surprise. Halpogroup X.

[Han Cholo]

No surprise. Halpogroup X.

And Q, and other non-neolithic ones.

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

what are non neolithic markers?

[Atlantic Islander]

So, would this explain Northern European dodecad globe4 results?

[Slycooper]

So I have more european in me lol? lol Obv not.

[Neanderthal]

Very interesting finding Pallantides. Would this mean proto-european branches divided into two groups at some point and one of them became Siberian-like people and other evolved in what whe know today as the UP types?

[Han Cholo]

Very interesting finding Pallantides. Would this mean proto-european branches divided into two groups at some point and one of them became Siberian-like people and other evolved in what whe know today as the UP types?

I think Amerindians are derived from a mix of those early eurasians and then mixed with contemporary Central and Siberian populations, and likely some influx from modern ones as well.

But I think this shared component must be dead in a pure percentage in any modern population. Perhaps, to give an example, Finns could be 40% of this and some Alaskan tribe 15%?

[Insuperable]

So, would this explain Northern European dodecad globe4 results?

Yes, globe 4 calculator was based on that findings.

Just to put link anyway
http://theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=00691

[finþaų]

Does this mean that Dinaroid-influenced North Europeans are in reality part Sylvid?

[Prince Carlo]

This amerindian admix predates the West Asian/North European split.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IS_fRlD7V5k/UJBi-JEMqjI/AAAAAAAAAzs/FWBI9YH6zLU/s1600/treemix.png

Indeed Georgians are more mong shifted than many North Euros.

[Pallantides]

http://www.genetics.org/content/early/2012/09/06/genetics.112.145037.abstract

Ancient Admixture in Human History

Nick Patterson et al.

Population mixture is an important process in biology. We present a suite of methods for learning about population mixtures, implemented in a software package called ADMIXTOOLS, that support formal tests for whether mixture occurred, and make it possible to infer proportions and dates of mixture. We also describe the development of a new single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) array consisting of 629,433 sites with clearly documented ascertainment that was specifically designed for population genetic analyses, and that we genotyped in 934 individuals from 53 diverse populations. To illustrate the methods, we give a number of examples where they provide new insights about the history of human admixture. The most striking finding is a clear signal of admixture into northern Europe, with one ancestral population related to present day Basques and Sardinians, and the other related to present day populations of northeast Asia and the Americas. This likely reflects a history of admixture between Neolithic migrants and the indigenous Mesolithic population of Europe, consistent with recent analyses of ancient bones from Sweden and the sequencing of the genome of the Tyrolean ‘Iceman’.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2012/09/euro.png


We estimate an admixture date of 4150 ± 850 B.P. Our standard errors computed using a block jackknife (block size=5cM) are uncomfortably large here.

However this date must be treated with great caution. We obtained a data set from the Illumina iControl database (http://www.illumina.com/science/icontroldb.ilmn) of ‘Caucasians’ and after curation have 1,232 samples of European ancestry genotyped on an Illumina SNP array panel. We merged the data with the HGDP Illumina 650Y genotype data obtaining a data set with 561, 268 SNPs. Applying rolloff to this sample with HGDP Karitiana and Sardinians as sources, we get a much more recent date of 2200 ± 762 years B.P.

Ancient DNA studies have documented a clean break between the genetic structure of the Mesolithic
hunter-gatherers of Europe and the Neolithic first farmers who followed them. Mitochondrial
analyses have shown that the first farmers in central Europe, belonging to the Linear Pottery culture
(LBK), were genetically strongly differentiated from European hunter-gatherers (BRAMANTI
et al., 2009), with an ‘affinity’ to present day Near Eastern and Anatolian populations (HAAK
et al., 2010). More recently, new insight has come from analysis of ancient nuclear DNA from
three hunter-gatherers and one Neolithic farmer who lived roughly contemporaneously at about
5000 years B.P. in what is now Sweden (SKOGLUND et al., 2012). The farmer’s DNA shows a
signal of genetic relatedness to Sardinians that is not present in the hunter-gatherers who have
much more relatedness to present-day northern Europeans. These findings suggest that the arrival
of agriculture in Europe involved massive movements of genes (not just culture) from the Near
East to Europe and that people descending from the Near Eastern migrants initially reached as far
north as Sweden with little mixing with the hunter-gatherers they encountered. However, the fact
that today, northern Europeans have a strong signal of admixture of these two groups, as proven
by this study and consistent with the findings of (SKOGLUND et al., 2012), indicates that these two
ancestral groups subsequently mixed.

[pinguino]

Perhaps, that's why is so difficult to find Amerindian ancestry in certain societies in the Americas.

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

Perhaps, that's why is so difficult to find Amerindian ancestry in certain societies in the Americas.

because they were all white? :P who are the mestizos then?

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

Patterson and his colleagues, including Harvard Medical School Professor of Genetics David Reich, studied DNA diversity, finding that one of these ancestral populations was the first farming population of Europe. The DNA of this group lives on today in relatively unmixed form in Sardinians and the people of the Basque Country. It is also present in at least the Druze population of the Middle East.

This is really exciting because it brings one thing into clarity, that Native Americans are part of the superior Farming race. Those who carry the farming gene such as the British and certain other superior groups. Those who showed no history of farming or herding are historically shown to have not accomplished anything of interest. And many others had to be taught by the true superior people on how to behave in a modern way.

[Han Cholo]

This is really exciting because it brings one thing into clarity, that Native Americans are part of the superior Farming race. Those who carry the farming gene such as the British and certain other superior groups. Those who showed no history of farming or herding are historically shown to have not accomplished anything of interest. And many others had to be taught by the true masters how to live.

No, those are the neolithic invaders. :picard1:

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

their is another article about the farming gene and it is linked specifically to those people with the tendancy of farming and is only found in specific countries like England and Ireland, parts of germany, and other places you can track it back to the middle east and it is a marker for people who had the tenancy to be farmers. These farming communities would be what lead to the development of civilization. And also are the opposite of those with warrior genes or hunter gatherer genetic tendencies. Then you have societies that sprung out of basically nothing like Russia that adopted most of their culture from western europe and integrated it with their own in a relatively short period of time. You can say these countries are only mimicking.

The way it works in my ladder of superiority is
Farming Society
Herding Society
Fishing + Trading Society + pillaging (viking types)
hunter gatherers + savages (certain goths and russians and nomadic groups)

a stable society allowed for intellectual development

you can look at inventions and philosophy by country and region and compare it to a farming society and see it is greater early in history in these areas.

[Hesperión]

Which northern European populations (and on which clines)?

For some time now I've been a firm believer that (proto-)Germanic (and (proto-) Slavic and Baltic) culture ancestrally stem from the Steppes of Western Asia. Likely derived from the peoples of the Corded Ware culture (as different to Western European cultures that likely derived from the peoples of the Bell Beaker culture). We know that Amerindians migrated into the American Continent from a close and related region, Siberia.

It makes sense.

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

we can now see nordic traditional clothes and link it with native american and siberian

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_sgCPRbc8zJI/SY2xPD8-fXI/AAAAAAAABt4/0YhfprO8qi4/s400/img462x462.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1400/762780984_b6e40c4706.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2hi5szm.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ue2_vDGeEV8/TQ6vKx4NFqI/AAAAAAAAFC0/QbnPlg6c9W4/s1600/siberian+eskimos.jpg
http://www.policy.hu/filtchenko/Andrey%20Filchenko/images/researchers%20Jordan%20and%20Filchenko%20with%20B. Yugan%20Khanty%20family.jpg
http://www.travelalaska.com/Things%20To%20Do/Art%20Culture%20History/Alaska%20Natives/~/media/Images/Travel%20Alaska/Skins/totemclose.jpg?mh=340&mw=360
http://www.fodors.com/images/experiences/Alaska-Sitka-Native-Performance.jpg

http://nursing322sp10.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/children-in-traditional-peruvian-dress.jpg
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/200711/20071105rad_native_ameri_500.jpg
http://gallery.nen.gov.uk/assets/0709/0000/0230/00200004_mid.jpg

[pinguino]

This is really exciting because it brings one thing into clarity, that Native Americans are part of the superior Farming race. Those who carry the farming gene such as the British and certain other superior groups. Those who showed no history of farming or herding are historically shown to have not accomplished anything of interest. And many others had to be taught by the true superior people on how to behave in a modern way.

Farmer race? That's weird. The people that settled in the Americas weren't farmers but hunter gatherers and fishermen. Only after the discovery of maize we could speak of farming in the Americas, and that happened thousand of years after the arrival to the new world.

[Pallantides]

The Mesolithic North Europeans were also hunter & gatherers. The Neolithic farmers came to Northern Europe around 4000 B.C

[Stefan]

One thing I don't understand is why they've concluded that these populations are related to Native-Americans and not other Northeast-Eurasians, of whom the Native-Americans have a vastly larger affinity with. Basically, why specifically mention Native-Americans, when it's likely that other Northeast Eurasians are related to Northwest-Eurasians on some level, possibly even more closely?

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

they have already linked them to siberians so it just makes native americans more related to russians

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

they have already linked them to siberians so it just makes native americans more related to russians

And eastern europeans can range from a southern migration upward and then the northern european in the northern eastern europeans, so they can't simply link them to "eastern euros" since romanians and north eastern Russians are way different


Farmer race? That's weird. The people that settled in the Americas weren't farmers but hunter gatherers and fishermen. Only after the discovery of maize we could speak of farming in the Americas, and that happened thousand of years after the arrival to the new world.

Also native americans did not discover Maize.. they fucking domesticated it from a tiny plant, not the "wild plant" that looks like corn that was thought before, it was actually from this plant http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/images/relevance/Z_diplo_earsmall.jpg into corn. So imagine how they figured that. They also brought tomatoes, chocolate, turkeys, pumpkins ect. to the world.

This shows maybe in the arctic climate they had to do with herding deer and such such as the sami, but once finding a place where they can settle down their farmer genes kicked in.

How else would the farmer gene have spread so far out unless when things got rough of course they can survive like the rest of the people, but farming takes over and domestication.

That is why England has 60% of Farmer genes in it and some migrated to ireland.

Take a look at the nations that have domesticated plants or animals.

[Prince Carlo]

So apparently Mesolitich Europeans were not mongs. :D

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/europeans-are-three-way-mix-with.html

[member]

So apparently Mesolitich Europeans were not mongs. :D

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/europeans-are-three-way-mix-with.html

They were semi-mong:
Quote from Polako:

However, a pre-print at arXiv, courtesy of some of the same authors who wrote the Patterson et al. paper, proposes that Europeans might be a mix of three ancient groups: Neolithic farmers, Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers, and/or Mesolithic North or Central Asians. In fact, this model is very similar to the one I entertained in my blog entry about the Patterson et al. paper, in which I said that Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers carried a North Eurasian component, rather than being entirely of North Eurasian stock (see here). This makes sense in the light of ancient mtDNA results, which show Mesolithic Europeans carrying mostly West Eurasian-specific U4 and U5, but with some samples from Mesolithic and Neolithic Europe featuring a minority of Siberian-speific markers such as C.

German Dziebel has a very interesting blog entry Yuzhnyi Olenii Ostrov: Ancient mtDNA Evidence for Amerindian Admixture in Europe
http://anthropogenesis.kinshipstudies.org/2012/11/yuzhnyi-olenii-ostrov-ancient-mtdna-evidence-for-amerindian-admixture-in-europe/


Karelia has historically been occupied by Karelians (or Karely in Russian), the speakers of the West Finnic branch of the Uralic family, but the ancient DNA recovered from the site suggests that there was no strong continuity between Yuzhnyi Olenii Ostrov people and modern Karelians, Finns or Saami, hence Uralic-speakers must have colonized this area in post-Mesolithic times. Craniologically, the Yuzhnyi Olenii Ostrov burial is dominated by Caucasoid morphology (left) but, importantly, there is a small number of skulls that display Mongoloid traits (right). Odontologically, the burial shows elevated frequencies of several Sinodonty (Northeast Asian-Amerindian) traits, including shoveling (the same trend as observed in other places such as the Caucasus), six-cusp upper molar, deflecting wrinkle of the metaconid and distal trigonid crest, which can be interpreted as either the preservation of archaic (plesiomorphic) tooth morphology in Mesolithic Europeans (e.g., six-cusp UM is found as far back as Homo erectus) or as gene flow from Asians and or American Indians (see Зубова А.В. 2011. “Одонтологические данные к проблеме «монголоидности» населения Восточной Европы в мезолитическую эпоху,” Вестник Московского университета. Серия XXIII. Антропология. № 1).

Among the surprising findings from Yuzhnyi Olenii Ostrov mtDNA are hg H (a highly frequent modern European haplogroup, which so far has been poorly attested in pre-Neolithic sites) and, especially, hg C1, which is found at highest frequency and diversity in the New World.


At the same time, Der Sarkissian’s strangely categorical claim (p. 168) that “the possibility of a prehistoric genetic influence from the Americas into Mesolithic Europe is highly unlikely” is a gross overstatement. Considering the fact that a whole-genome analysis corroborates the presence of Amerindian admixture in Europe (with northern Europe being more affected than southern Europe), hg C1a is already considered to be the product of a back-migration from the New World to eastern Siberia, craniologically Mongoloid morphology has the earliest appearance in North America, and not East Asia (Peter Brown (1999). “The First Modern East Asians? A Further Look at Upper Cave 101, Liujiang and Minatogawa,” in Interdisciplinary Perspectives on the Origins of the Japanese, International Research Center for Japanese Studies. Kyoto. Pp. 105-130. 1999) and archaeologically the quintessential Paleoindian fluted point industry is known to have expanded northward to Alaska and Northeast Asia, it’s not a stretch to imagine that some of these early “Mongoloid” groups migrated across Siberia into northern Europe at the end of the last Ice Age and merged with the pre-existing Caucasoid populations. The rarity of hg C1 in the ancient mtDNA samples in Europe may indicate a very targeted and restricted penetration of migrant forager groups that crossed Beringia after the melting of the glaciers. At the same time, Yuzhnyi Olenii Ostrov may be a refugium with deeper roots in European Upper Paleolithic, and hg C1 a relic surviving into the European Mesolithic from earlier times due to geographic isolation and long-term local endogamy reported for Yuzhnyi Olenii Ostrov by craniologists and odontologists (Jacobs K. (1992). “Human population differentiation in the peri-Baltic Mesolithic: The odontometrics of Oleneostrovskii mogilnik (Karelia),” Human Evolution 7 (4): 33-48).

[Balmung]

Don't get us mixed up in this argument! We have nothing to do with this, leave us out of it! :D

Well, didn't they say in the previous thread you guys had more North European/Mesolithic admixture? You're more mong :P embrace your mongness!

[Prince Carlo]

@Human_Master You are quoting Polako who is just a genome blogger. Why don't you quote the peer-reviewed article below?


Our interpretation is that most if not all modern Europeans are descended from at least one large-scale ancient admixture event involving, in some combination, at least one population of Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers; Neolithic farmers, originally from the Near East; and/or other migrants from northern or Central Asia.

So according to this last research North Asians came later and mixed with mesolitich Europeans.

[member]

@Human_Master You are quoting Polako who is just a genome blogger. Why don't you quote the peer-reviewed article below?



So according to this last research North Asians came later and mixed with mesolitich Europeans.

G. Dziebel's article gives a different perspective (based on Sarkissian's work).

[Prince Carlo]

So you are basing all this on few hg C1 found on the borders of Europe, aren't you?

EDIT That hg is just 7500 years old. So where is the surprise?