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Beorn
07-27-2009, 04:44 PM
Mocking the Welsh is the last permitted bigotry


On the eve of the Eisteddfod, Jan 'I'm a cunt' Morris says that, much as the English might enjoy their personal experiences of Wales, ancient suspicion of their neighbours always kicks in.

‘Don’t let’s be beastly to the Germans’ went a sarcastic lyric of Nöel Coward’s at the end of the second world war, and nowadays nobody of civilised instinct is beastly to them. Quite right too. Political correctness, so often stultifying to free expression, has at least ensured that racial bigotry is recognised as the cruellest kind of yobbery, distantly but recognisably related to genocide. Few of us now blame ‘the Germans’ for the evils of the war, and generalised mockery of Jews, blacks, wogs, frogs, Micks, Poles or Eyeties, let alone Muslims, has to be witty indeed to raise even a guilty laugh.

One class of person, though, one race, one nationality, is evidently exempt from this taboo. In England it is open-season still for Welsh-baiting. The Welsh joke flour- ishes. The Welsh language is still an object of derision. Scoundrels still ‘welsh’ upon their creditors, and to this day Lord Kinnock is calumnied as the old Welsh windbag. Who has not heard the English tourist complaining that the moment he and his family walked into a Welsh pub, ‘they all started jabbering in Welsh’?
So what? Yes, well, except that these adolescent attitudes are rooted in sadness. Nobody in all England lives further than 100 miles from a Welsh border, yet the public ignorance of the English about this intimate and ultimate neighbour is sad to contemplate. It is not simply geographic — every London taxi-driver, every other waitress in Leeds has been to Prestatyn or had a caravan holiday in Gwynedd. For that matter half the English middle-classes have either had a Welsh great-grandmother, or have spent their childhood holidays in their cottage near Harlech. But as to understanding anything more profound about the history, the existence and the meaning of Wales, their minds are blank and their responses generally weasly.

They squirm, that is to say, because their feelings are ambivalent. They enjoyed Prestatyn well enough, they still fondly remember old Miss Davies at the sweet shop, but they have been conditioned by history to steer clear of Wales, to stand back as it were, and mask their discomfort in ribaldry. Taffy the thief was a Welshman, after all. Who knows what those jabbering Welshmen in the pub were jabbering about? For centuries the English were open enemies of the Welsh, and I suspect they are innately suspicious still of their often obdurate and sometimes boring neighbours (for one has to admit that, as Shakespeare’s Hotspur said of their national hero, Owain Glyndwr, Welshmen can sometimes be ‘more tedious than a smoky house’).

So it is probably an inherited national instinct that allows today’s English columnists and tap-room jokers to be as beastly as they please about the Welsh. The contact between the two peoples has been essentially inimical from the start, and because the Welshman was always a wily kind of enemy, a guerrilla more than a stand-and-fight man, given to ruses and deceits, boasting of supernatural advantages — because the Welsh wars of the English were never quite like their other wars, and never did end in a Plassey, a Waterloo, an Omdurman or an Alamein, a brooding sense of dissatisfied resentment was perhaps left behind in the English subconscious.

Of course they have had many other hereditary enemies. The age-old rivalry with France has only recently faded. Colonial grudges find their echoes still. Even now Nazis and Germans are sometimes confused. The antipathy against Wales, though, is something different, because it is tinged always with contempt, and soured by incompletion. Isn’t Wales part of Britain — part of England, really? What’s this nonsense about the revival of a language — don’t they all speak English anyway, and why can’t they spell Owen Glendower like Shakespeare did? What would they be without us? What do they contribute? And listen, this will make you laugh — did you hear the one about the Welshman and the crocodile...?

There is something very sad about this dim antagonism, and for the Welsh the sadness is double-edged. On the one hand the English are at last, year by year, diminishing the Welshness of Wales — heedlessly, not by a war of attrition, but by a war of intrusion. Hardly a town is without its English-owned second homes, its English-managed pub, English voices in its schoolyard, English shops on its corners, not to mention cultural importations like obesity and leylandii hedges. On the other hand it is evident that the long rearguard action of the Welsh, fought with so much guile over so many centuries, is never really going to succeed — not just the English, I fear, but history itself is bound to obliterate such small nationalities in the end.

The sadness of the Welsh, then, is not so much for the inevitable defeat itself, but for the ironic manner of it. They are now closer to victory — that is to say, to national fulfilment — than they have been since the days of Glyndwr himself. They have, if not a parliament exactly, at least a National Assembly with some real powers. Their indefatigable patriots have seen to it that, despite all predictions, their language lives exuberantly, and to my mind there has been real grandeur to the pathos of their resistance down the ages.

All this makes the mean bigotries of English yobs more despicable still. This is the season of the Welsh National Eisteddfod, the annual peripatetic festival of the Welsh culture and its language, and if you happen to be near Bala in Gwynedd about now, you will be mean-spirited indeed not to share the joy, the beauty and the fun of the Welsh identity, expressed as eagerly in poetry and music as in rugby football. That less than half the inhabitants of Wales speak the Welsh language, that the Welsh Assembly has no tax-raising powers, that the only motorways in Wales are the ones that go to England, that the Welsh media is dominated by the English — none of all this quenches the true love of most Welsh people for their country.
Perhaps a sense of inferiority animates English people in their prejudice, as they compare this inextinguishable national spirit with their own? Perhaps they are beginning to understand why it is instantly advantageous to tell foreigners that you are not English, but Welsh? And perhaps the Welsh themselves should accept the infantile abuse of stand-up comics and loveless intellectuals with a shrug of the shoulders and an indulgent smile, in a proper exertion of boneddigrwydd — which is to say, more or less, noblesse oblige.

Source (http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/5200003/mocking-the-welsh-is-the-last-permitted-bigotry.thtml)

I was actually laughing whilst finding myself extremely angry that this "person" could openly deride the English for apparently being racist, anti-Welsh haters, whilst herself being racist, anti-English hater.

The liberal left. An enigma waiting to to explode with confusion.

Mrs Ulf
07-27-2009, 05:09 PM
Interesting article. I myself am technically Welsh. I enjoy the jokes and the jabs at the Welsh people. Besides, I could probably drink any man here under the table :P

Its impossible to understand yourself without first understanding others, and pieces like this only further the contempt. Maybe the person who wrote this should take a step back and see that they are only generalizing English people, just as people tend to generalize the Welsh.

In any case, thanks for sharing this!

Aemma
07-27-2009, 05:23 PM
It's funny though but this type of "bigotry among brothers" happens pretty much everywhere. I'm thinking about Canucks and our incessant "Newfie" jokes. The Newfoundlanders are "the Welsh" in my own country. It's pretty ironic when you think about it though. Newfoundland was the last Province to officially join confederation during the 1950's. Before then she kept her allegiance to the UK while Englishmen from elsewhere in Canada would mock her and her folk (well there are many Irish people there though after all ;) :D).

Germanicus
07-27-2009, 10:36 PM
This is the new Severn Bridge, this is and another 2 bridges further down stream is what joins Wales to my beloved England....sobs...unfortunately the English have to pay to cross the bridge, but the Welsh do not on their side of the river, the crafty buggers can evade paying when they want to cross back into Wales by simply driving over West gate bridge ........in of all places...Gloucester my home town..:mad:


http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n449/ruffusruffcut/severn20bridge5.jpg

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n449/ruffusruffcut/bridge_lead_203x152.jpg

Treffie
07-27-2009, 10:51 PM
This is the new Severn Bridge, this is and another 2 bridges further down stream is what joins Wales to my beloved England....sobs...unfortunately the English have to pay to cross the bridge, but the Welsh do not on their side of the river, the crafty buggers can evade paying when they want to cross back into Wales by simply driving over West gate bridge ........in of all places...Gloucester my home town..:mad:


http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n449/ruffusruffcut/severn20bridge5.jpg

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n449/ruffusruffcut/bridge_lead_203x152.jpg

What are you moaning about?:D You have to pay to go on holiday, while us Welsh have to pay to get back home.:rolleyes:

The Severn Bridge toll should be scrapped, I can imagine how much business we've lost over it.

As for the article, Mrs Ulf hit the nail on the head (I think she looks very Welsh btw), we give as good as we take, so there is no real harm done. There are of course, haters on both sides.

Skandi
07-27-2009, 10:55 PM
Aww it's all in good fun, who cares anyway!

Gooding
07-27-2009, 11:16 PM
I thought it was fashionable nowadays to pick on the Scots? Damn, news travels slowly over the water.:confused:

Mrs Ulf
07-27-2009, 11:49 PM
I thought it was fashionable nowadays to pick on the Scots? Damn, news travels slowly over the water.:confused:

LOL, looks like either way I'm screwed.

Gooding
07-28-2009, 12:00 AM
LOL, looks like either way I'm screwed.

Sorry, Fräu Ulf..I've Welsh blood too, but impossibly far back, whilst my Scottish blood, while equally far back, is far more rampant.Or is that plenteous? It sucks that people pick on their racial kindred to avoid being marked racists.I have a strong feeling that most of this anti-Welsh rubbish is just misdirected flack to cover their real resentments.All the Afro Caribbeans, Pakis and dune coons that are flooding in.I think they want to say "nigger"," camel lover" and "turbaned eunuch", but in case of lawsuits and media coverage and immigrant drama, they cast about for a more useful target that isn't too likely to strike back.

007
07-28-2009, 12:08 AM
I've never actually heard much Taff-bashing, except for the bit that they all switch to Welsh once they realize you're English. I had a lovely pint in the Ship Inn in Fishguard last month. Felinfoel stout it was. The landlord asked me if I liked it while he was pulling the pint. I said I'd had never had it before but I liked stout. He said this wasn't mere stout, it was Welsh stout. I approved of his patriotism, and his pint. :thumb001:

Treffie
07-28-2009, 12:23 AM
I've never actually heard much Taff-bashing, except for the bit that they all switch to Welsh once they realize you're English. I had a lovely pint in the Ship Inn in Fishguard last month. Felinfoel stout it was. The landlord asked me if I liked it while he was pulling the pint. I said I'd had never had it before but I liked stout. He said this wasn't mere stout, it was Welsh stout. I approved of his patriotism, and his pint. :thumb001:

We joke about the English lack of ability to pronounce this word, I've heard people calling it `Feeling Foul`, or perhaps that's the English having a joke on us? :D

Piparskeggr
07-28-2009, 12:53 AM
Besides, I could probably drink any man here under the table :P

I likely have 5 - 8 stone on you, plus I've been drinking heavy for the better part of 35 years...fifth of whiskey (750 ml), half and half with water or soda, 60 minutes? :eek:

Yeah, that was my nightly routine up until 3 years ago. :(

That, or a fifth of vodka, half and half with orange juice or apricot nectar...or the equivalent in wine, beer, mead or brandy.

Now, while I can still do the above, 4 - 5 mixed drinks (or equivalent) is a heavy night now. :p

Sorry, I get on my soapbox sometimes about drinking...

Mrs Ulf
07-28-2009, 01:13 AM
Sorry, Fräu Ulf..I've Welsh blood too, but impossibly far back, whilst my Scottish blood, while equally far back, is far more rampant.Or is that plenteous? It sucks that people pick on their racial kindred to avoid being marked racists.I have a strong feeling that most of this anti-Welsh rubbish is just misdirected flack to cover their real resentments.All the Afro Caribbeans, Pakis and dune coons that are flooding in.I think they want to say "nigger"," camel lover" and "turbaned eunuch", but in case of lawsuits and media coverage and immigrant drama, they cast about for a more useful target that isn't too likely to strike back.

Yeah probably. I kind of think that humor is the best medicine for these sorts of disputes. As long as its humor and not some deep seeded resentment. Besides if you can't laugh about yourself, you probably have no right laughing about others.


I likely have 5 - 8 stone on you, plus I've been drinking heavy for the better part of 35 years...fifth of whiskey (750 ml), half and half with water or soda, 60 minutes? :eek:

Yeah, that was my nightly routine up until 3 years ago. :(

That, or a fifth of vodka, half and half with orange juice or apricot nectar...or the equivalent in wine, beer, mead or brandy.

Now, while I can still do the above, 4 - 5 mixed drinks (or equivalent) is a heavy night now. :p

Sorry, I get on my soapbox sometimes about drinking...

Soapbox it up. I said probably, you can be the exception ;) But really good for you to cut back on it. I can drink all the men I've ever met under the table. I'm not sure if I should be proud of that or not :)

Piparskeggr
07-28-2009, 01:45 AM
Mrs Ulf;

You seem like my kind of woman. ;P

best - Pip

007
07-28-2009, 10:38 PM
We joke about the English lack of ability to pronounce this word, I've heard people calling it `Feeling Foul`, or perhaps that's the English having a joke on us? :D

Perhaps the morning after sentiment. :p

Graham
07-28-2009, 10:53 PM
I thought it was fashionable nowadays to pick on the Scots? Damn, news travels slowly over the water.:confused:

The only way someone could pick on the scots, is through the internet or a newspaper etc.. would love to see someone try it in person. Would be a laugh in a half. Mon the Wales!!:D

Óttar
07-28-2009, 11:17 PM
I likely have 5 - 8 stone on you, plus I've been drinking heavy for the better part of 35 years...fifth of whiskey (750 ml), half and half with water or soda, 60 minutes? :eek:
Yeah, that was my nightly routine up until 3 years ago. :(


How did your liver withstand it? I get hangovers all the time, but I never drink enough to throw up. That also must've cost one Hell of a lot of money!

Piparskeggr
07-29-2009, 12:14 AM
How did your liver withstand it? I get hangovers all the time, but I never drink enough to throw up.

I had the same question for my doctor; the findings were that I have a much higher than normal level of the enzyme, which breaks down ethanol. That much whiskey, I get sleepy.

Perhaps unluckily, the sort of hangover I get is a mild "fuzziness" around the edges and not feeling like eating for several hours after I get up for the day. I lost 2 days of work to brown bottle flu during the 4 year stretch I was drinking like that.

As to the last, neither do I. Last time I actually got knee-walking drunk and pukey was at least 20 years ago. I do, however, get a bit uncoordinated, hence my decades long habit of never drinking more than a glass of beer or wine while away from home if I am the one driving.


That also must've cost one Hell of a lot of money!

Ahhh, yeah...depending on what I was drinking, occasionally top shelf, never from the well ,-)

As I don't go to bars, this was all bottles I bought and then consumed at home; say $100 - $150 every week. The bills always got paid, but my retirement fund didn't.

My favorites are mid-range blended Scotch, "vintage" Canadian whiskeys or the better non-Bourbon - non - sour mash American blends. When I go top shelf; Highland, Islay or Speyside single malts.

When I drink vodka, I'll get mid-price ones if I'm mixing, but better sorts (Boru is my current favorite) I keep in the freezer and drink straight up.

Now, if I want a mixed drink, I'll stop by the package store and just get a couple of nips, certainly no bottle larger than a half-pint. I no longer keep distilled spirits in the house. Only exception is a bottle of rot-gut vodka I use for filling the airlocks on my fermenters.

I do fine with ale, wine and mead...seems the only passionate hatred I have in life is the sight of a full whiskey bottle. :(

Brynhild
07-29-2009, 05:01 AM
In our part of the world, we don't crack too many jokes about the Welsh. More often than not, it's the Poms, Scots and particularly the Irish! :D