Do Portuguese and Italians overlap in general [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 06:03 AM

I'd say some Sardinians, and some northerners, can sometimes overlap yes.

In general though, I think that there is a distinctive Portuguese look, and a distinctive Italian look (a pan-Italic look similar to someone like Francesco Totti) as well as the typical Greco-Roman appearances of far southerners, and Dinaro-Nordid appearances of many northerners.. and in general, Portuguese and Italians, while both looking Southern European, do not look that much alike.

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 06:04 AM

We need to add a poll I think.. can I do it?

Slycooper

12-16-2012, 06:05 AM

We need to add a poll I think.. can I do it?

Yes.

Atlantic Islander

12-16-2012, 06:07 AM

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 06:09 AM

Then you were contradicting yourself over here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65338).

Well, that particular guy passes well I think. But as you saw I didn't immediately recognize him as Portuguese.

Slycooper

12-16-2012, 06:09 AM

Well, that particular guy passes well I think. But as you saw I didn't immediately recognize him as Portuguese.

Sikelot. Try to think of non sicillians though.

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 06:11 AM

Sikelot. Try to think of non sicillians though.

Someone like Francesco Totti or Giada de Laurentiis still doesn't look Portuguese, and they're quite "pan-Italian" looking. But I get what you mean.

Atlantic Islander

12-16-2012, 06:12 AM

Well, that particular guy passes well I think. But as you saw I didn't immediately recognize him as Portuguese.

Because what you consider typical is a bit skewed.

exceeder

12-16-2012, 06:14 AM

Yes and no. Yes in the sense that they are much more similar to each other then Italians and Poles or Greeks and Germans.
They are also part of a similar meditteranean continuum, but I would say that southern Italy generall has phenotypes that are more eastern then western.

So I guess it really depends what regions of Italy we are addressing ;)

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 06:14 AM

Well, 3/4 of the Portuguese people you post, I would be able to distinguish quickly (and I have). But it makes sense that I won't get them right every time.

Anyway, I'll let someone else answer the topic.

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 06:22 AM

I'll add also that I have seen some Campanians (particularly Neapolitans) who could fit in Portugal and vice versa. There was some Spanish settlement there in the past 500 years I have heard.

Slycooper

12-16-2012, 11:41 AM

Bump

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 01:26 PM

I'm alone on this but I'll defend my opinion to the death :lol:

Slycooper

12-16-2012, 01:27 PM

I'm alone on this but I'll defend my opinion to the death :lol:

lmao.

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 01:33 PM

I mean I can compromise and conclude that there are some parts of Italy where Portuguese people could blend in well, but I'll always at least say that far southerners (Calabrese, Sicilian, etc) except for the very Nordic influenced ones, would probably fit better in Cyprus than in Portugal.

Lábaru

12-16-2012, 01:36 PM

genetically or phenotypically?

Gaijin

12-16-2012, 01:48 PM

Portuguese and Northern Italians, yes.
Southern Italians, no.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8445/7888154404_42d9f51b92_b.jpg

Lábaru

12-16-2012, 01:51 PM

I think yes, Italian and French, specially North and South respectively, are most similar, although we can not speak of that are the same.

Damião de Góis

12-16-2012, 03:20 PM

In general i think it's not difficult to see differences, for all italians. However they would still fit here much better than your random brit or german.

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 03:57 PM

I could have split the poll into northern and southern Italians, but I know that some people here would have been bothered by that, so I didn't. I think you could make a case for Ligurians having some affinities to Iberians, also based on that the people there were said to be related to them.

Prince Carlo

12-16-2012, 04:55 PM

Iberian Erasmus students in Naples pass unnoticed in the 70-80% of the cases. I think that we overlap more with them than with the Sardinians who stick out like sore thumbs. Here is a video to clarify my point.

ATK_tUHoJ78

Lábaru

12-16-2012, 06:42 PM

Joseph Capelli is a bit obsessed with Spain, this thread is about Portugal. Stop of want to look like us.

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 06:50 PM

Prince Carlo

12-16-2012, 06:53 PM

Joseph Capelli is a bit obsessed with Spain, this thread is about Portugal.

There isn't a big difference between Spaniards and Portuguese.

Stop of want to look like us.

Can you tell me where I have said that we look the same? I've just said that most people can't tell Spaniards apart from natives, but again this is true also for North Italians and some Balkanic people. Most people are not aware about subraces and genetics.

I think Sardinians and Iberians look more alike than either looks like southern Italians.

It depends on which South Italian people you are talking about. Sicilians? Surely. Campanians? I don't think so. And I've seen many Sardinians in the real life.

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 06:58 PM

Can you tell me where I have said that we look the same? I've just said that most people can't tell Spaniards apart from natives, but again this is true also for North Italians and some Balkanic people. Most people are not aware about subraces and genetics.

My aunt says that, at least as far as Portuguese go, she always can tell when someone is Portuguese as opposed to Italian. And she, like myself, usually can differentiate them.

Peyrol

12-16-2012, 07:02 PM

Nope.
At least, as native of the Alpes and padanian plain.

Toretto

12-16-2012, 07:07 PM

Portuguese and Northern Italians, yes.
Southern Italians, no.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8445/7888154404_42d9f51b92_b.jpg
in general is so

people from salento, from calabria and sicily look different, but for the portoguese member i can fit in portugal and i am 100% from salento

In general i think it's not difficult to see differences, for all italians. However they would still fit here much better than your random brit or german.

i agree

Prince Carlo

12-16-2012, 07:07 PM

My aunt says that, at least as far as Portuguese go, she always can tell when someone is Portuguese as opposed to Italian. And she, like myself, usually can differentiate them.

I can do it too. Iberians have a lot of Basque/Celtic types that you won't find in any parts of Italy.

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 07:12 PM

I can do it too. Iberians have a lot of Basque/Celtic types that you won't find in any parts of Italy.

And Berids too. Like this type:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6075/6158135389_c38ff564a7_m.jpghttp://farm7.static.flickr.com/6155/6158135093_2178c8ec62_m.jpghttp://farm7.static.flickr.com/6072/6158134759_467b483d5e_m.jpghttp://farm7.static.flickr.com/6158/6158134075_57da107940_m.jpghttp://farm7.static.flickr.com/6155/6158133951_9655af5f24_m.jpg

But as far as attractive people go, Portuguese women often have more gracile features than Italians do (due to Italians having more Dinarid), also when you consider Calabrese and Sicilians who tend toward East Med sometimes, or when of a Gracile Med type, will often have some Dinaricization.

Portuguese girl, as an example (she can probably pass in Italy but you would know she is Iberian):

http://img.poptower.com/pic-56705/tamara-duarte.jpg?d=600

Rouxinol

12-16-2012, 07:13 PM

^That woman is far from the standard Portuguese female, doubt she's fully Portuguese given she's Canadian.

This is self-evident so I wouldn't make a thread on it. Most Italians, north to south, west to east, have Dinarid input of some form in them (pure Dinarids, Dinaro-Mediterranids, Norids, etc.). Most Portuguese DO NOT have any Dinarid at all, and when they do (a few in comparison to the majority), it's most likely Baskid. The only overlap that might exist is in pigmentation (excluding Norids).

Italian bulk: Dinarids, Dinaro-Mediterranids, Atlanto-Dinarids, East Mediterranids, Norids

Portuguese bulk: Gracile/West Mediterranids, Atlanto-Mediterranids, Atlantids, Berids

Alpinid or Alpinid-influenced types through alpinization processes are present in both places.

Damião de Góis

12-16-2012, 07:18 PM

lol...

Lábaru

12-16-2012, 07:18 PM

There isn't a big difference between Spaniards and Portuguese..

Of course much less than between Spanish and Italian but this thread is about Portuguese.

I can remember now your thread about the Iberians were genetically very different from each other, Galicians, andalucians, Catalans ect... now we are all the same? bipolar behavior.

Can you tell me where I have said that we look the same? I've just said that most people can't tell Spaniards apart from natives, but again this is true also for North Italians and some Balkanic people. Most people are not aware about subraces and genetics.

that's the strange thing, first you usually attack us, other times seems to want to look like us. Is a bipolar thing?.

when I wanted to argue that Southern Italians were not so different from North Italians you did disagree, right?

Rouxinol

12-16-2012, 07:24 PM

Standard Portuguese woman:

http://www.osfamosos.com/data/7170_nuria.jpg
(Núria Madruga)

Does not overlap with Italians.

Prince Carlo

12-16-2012, 07:25 PM

Of course much less than between Spanish and Italian but this thread is about Portuguese.

I can remember now your thread about the Iberians were genetically very different from each other, Galicians, andalucians, Catalans ect... now we are all the same? bipolar behavior.

The difference is there but is small. Anyway when I talk about "spaniards" I mean people from Castille mostly, not Basque or Canarians.

that's the strange thing, first you usually attack us, other times seems to want to look like us. Is a bipolar thing?.

I don't think we look the same nor I want to look like you. I've only said that "normal" people (not anthrogeeks) can't tell you apart from us most of times. You are not Russians or Moroccans who stick out like sore thumbs.

when I wanted to argue that Southern Italians were not so different from North Italians you did disagree, right?

First of all South Italians are not homogeneus. We are not all like the Sicilians or the Calabrians. Some of us are not that different from "some" North Italians.

Damião de Góis

12-16-2012, 07:27 PM

This one isn't native... where is she from?

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6075/6158135389_c38ff564a7_m.jpg

Kazuma

12-16-2012, 07:38 PM

they don't look so different as claimed by many anthro users. Obviously both have peculiar features and maybe it's easier that a portuguese would pass in italy than vice versa, for a simple numerical reason (60.000.000 vs 10.000.000)

Rouxinol

12-16-2012, 07:46 PM

This one isn't native... where is she from?

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6075/6158135389_c38ff564a7_m.jpg

From India maybe. That one is a Heraus picture... We all know how good he is at picking typical phenotypes. :rolleyes:

Lábaru

12-16-2012, 07:46 PM

The difference is there but is small. Anyway when I talk about "spaniards" I mean people from Castille mostly, not Basque or Canarians.

Only Castille in XX Century?
http://www.ugt.es/sedes/espana28.gif

Or XIV-XV with Basques being Castillians?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iFCQmBA0Hb8/TFHWOvRPbSI/AAAAAAAAA4I/SpMBsXarZBo/s1600/coronacastilla.png
http://www.astro-campus.com/articulos/VIDAL/natspain/castilla-aragon.jpg

I don't think we look the same nor I want to look like you. I've only said that "normal" people (not anthrogeeks) can't tell you apart from us most of times. You are not Russians or Moroccans who stick out like sore thumbs.

Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain are the same to the eyes of a normal person, same that Scandinavians, English and Russians are the same to the same kind of persons.

The Portuguese are indistinguishable from southern Italians, but the southern Italians can not fit into northern Italy, this is what I do not understand.

First of all South Italians are not homogeneus. We are not all like the Sicilians or the Calabrians. Some of us are not that different from "some" North Italians.

But indistinguishable with Iberians.

Prince Carlo

12-16-2012, 07:51 PM

^ Ok Labaru You are either dumb or just a troll, now I will explain myself better.

1) We look completely different as groups.

2) We overlap as individuals.

3) We overlap as individuals more with Northern Italians than with you.

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 08:03 PM

This one isn't native... where is she from?

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6075/6158135389_c38ff564a7_m.jpg

Algarve. I think she just looks extremely Berid. But anyway if you say she is not native, then ok.

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 08:04 PM

Standard Portuguese woman:

http://www.osfamosos.com/data/7170_nuria.jpg
(Núria Madruga)

Does not overlap with Italians.

She reminds me of Kristen Stewart. I can't say whether she fits in Italy as a whole or not, but she wouldn't be too typical amongst Italian Americans unless they were mixed with Northwest European.

Damião de Góis

12-16-2012, 08:09 PM

Algarve. I think she just looks extremely Berid. But anyway if you say she is not native, then ok.

Nope, this woman is clearly not 100% native. This should go without saying, and every portuguese poster will tell you the same.

Heraus had the habit of throwing mulatos and other mixed people in the bunch, and you are just repeating his crap on other forums...

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 08:09 PM

Nope, this woman is clearly not 100% native. This should go without saying, and every portuguese poster will tell you the same.

Ok, I'll take your word for it.

Anyway as far as group photos go, here are some group photos from Sicily and Calabria.. I think you would definitely not mistake most of them for Portuguese at least not collectively. Maybe individually though.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/291774_161410100618921_639503639_n.jpghttp://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/407037_10150539008078710_1828864163_n.jpghttp://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/298379_2358692779859_1527187731_n.jpg

Damião de Góis

12-16-2012, 08:18 PM

Some i would, others i wouldn't. Same here for Italy i suppose:

Lisbon

http://oi49.tinypic.com/wrzzih.jpg

http://oi49.tinypic.com/34zbknr.jpg

http://oi48.tinypic.com/2lj0r53.jpg

http://oi48.tinypic.com/2cofmf9.jpg

http://oi49.tinypic.com/xf97bt.jpg

Porto

http://oi48.tinypic.com/2z82qmx.jpg

http://oi49.tinypic.com/20ap2xc.jpg

http://oi50.tinypic.com/2ljhlxs.jpg

http://oi47.tinypic.com/sxgm81.jpg

http://oi48.tinypic.com/sn2s79.jpg

Rouxinol

12-16-2012, 08:24 PM

Comparing with groups of average Portuguese people they clearly do not overlap with Portuguese.

Some more Portuguese groups:
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/309988_3232858314627_610048223_n.jpg http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/424892_399147710153702_407125139_n.jpg http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/260319_10150221294142828_4493474_n.jpg

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 08:28 PM

Now we just need some northern and central Italian group pictures.

I think it's fair to say individual overlap will be present, but I can't think of anywhere in Italy where entire groups can pass as Portuguese. In the north you'll have more Nordic and Dinaric influence (Central European type of people) than you'd expect in a Portuguese group and amongst southerners, more East Med people.

Here are some central Italians from Abruzzo. Overlap or no?

http://imageshack.us/a/img829/405/24820717312594949658212.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img24/4198/55980117312775949640120.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img825/6399/28071173125569496620352.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img842/4871/25025173127559496421795.jpg

Damião de Góis

12-16-2012, 08:31 PM

So basically the answer is no...

Prince Carlo

12-16-2012, 08:43 PM

Some Campanian groups

http://www.radiof2.unina.it/wp-content/gallery/fru-2011/dscn8352.jpg
http://www.radiof2.unina.it/wp-content/gallery/fru-2011/dscn8354.jpg
http://www.radiof2.unina.it/wp-content/gallery/fru-2011/dscn8355.jpg
http://www.radiof2.unina.it/wp-content/gallery/fru-2011/dscn8353.jpg

Campanian students:

http://www.radiof2.unina.it/?p=416&album=24&gallery=12
http://www.radiof2.unina.it/?p=416&album=26&gallery=23
http://www.radiof2.unina.it/?p=416&album=25&gallery=15
http://www.radiof2.unina.it/?p=416&album=24&gallery=11
http://www.radiof2.unina.it/?p=416&album=24&gallery=13
http://www.radiof2.unina.it/?p=416&album=23&gallery=5
http://www.radiof2.unina.it/?p=416&album=22&gallery=6
http://www.radiof2.unina.it/?p=416&album=31&gallery=21

Now according to Labaru a Spaniard would stick out like a sore thumb among them. Just like a black african.

Lábaru

12-16-2012, 08:43 PM

Prince Carlo

12-16-2012, 08:44 PM

@Sikeliot There is an east-west divide in Italy. East Coast Italians look more "Balkanic".

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 08:46 PM

The Campanians posted IMO look more Iberian than do either the Abruzzese or the Sicilians.

I've always said the difference between Italians and Iberians is like that between Russians and Germans.

Toretto

12-16-2012, 08:47 PM

apulian especially salento usually can fit in portugal and viceversa

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 08:49 PM

apulian especially salento usually can fit in portugal and viceversa

Maybe individually but from the group photos of people from Apulia in the other thread, I would say not in crowds they don't.

Toretto

12-16-2012, 08:51 PM

so we're all saying the same thing?

Lábaru

12-16-2012, 08:54 PM

so we're all saying the same thing?

no xD

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 09:06 PM

so we're all saying the same thing?

No.

Btw here are some Apulian group photos (I tried to pick ones where there were 5 or more people).. I don't think any of these could pass as groups of Portuguese or that most people in them look it either

http://imageshack.us/a/img221/977/28503951127753221658019.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img37/4126/66591511275735550093189.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img194/3122/68024511275922216741451.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img823/6466/19023851127742221659134.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img21/4625/52856551127658221667571.jpg

Toretto

12-16-2012, 09:09 PM

apulian especially salento usually can fit in portugal and viceversa

Can't!

I realized now that i have misspelled.

Catrau

12-16-2012, 09:16 PM

I'm watching some videos of manifestation in Italy, I guess we can say that there are no big differences, but yes, there are a few on face features, not pigmentation.

I do not find high quality, but for example this Italian girl, she is Italian I guess(the video is from Bergamo ) does not fit in Portugal.
631UCUnEXf4

For me, she looks like a Portuguese gipsy.
I'm not tolling. No heart feelings.

I've never been to Italy (huge mistake) but I tend to see Italians, in general, not excessively different from us. On the other side, Labrador acute analysis, as ever, is very direct and concise and also, unchallenged, show that we have some common features and a lot of differences. I also tend, more and more, to see the Portuguese Mediterranic input as mythic. Yes it's a myth. We are a different breed although with influences, our med input is overrated. Our med influence comes from the Roman influence that, as we know wasn't genetic it was cultural at various levels namely architectonic, linguistic, laws and, I suppose also culinary... did I forgot something?? I repeat something I thought about and that is as simple as this: most of the Portuguese and the huge majority of their ancestors always lived as far away from the med as most French, most Hungarians and most Slovaks, and most southern Germans, all Swiss, all Austrian, all Serbs, all Bulgarians. So more and more I tend to think that we are med by sympathy.
I derailed a bit but it was to justify my position.

Toretto

12-16-2012, 09:35 PM

For me, she looks like a Portuguese gipsy.
I'm not tolling. No heart feelings.

I've never been to Italy (huge mistake) but I tend to see Italians, in general, not excessively different from us. On the other side, Labrador acute analysis, as ever, is very direct and concise and also, unchallenged, show that we have some common features and a lot of differences. I also tend, more and more, to see the Portuguese Mediterranic input as mythic. Yes it's a myth. We are a different breed although with influences, our med input is overrated. Our med influence comes from the Roman influence that, as we know wasn't genetic it was cultural at various levels namely architectonic, linguistic, laws and, I suppose also culinary... did I forgot something?? I repeat something I thought about and that is as simple as this: most of the Portuguese and the huge majority of their ancestors always lived as far away from the med as most French, most Hungarians and most Slovaks, and most southern Germans, all Swiss, all Austrian, all Serbs, all Bulgarians. So more and more I tend to think that we are med by sympathy.
I derailed a bit but it was to justify my position.

also for me this guy is like an italian gypsy , i'm not trolling, no heart fellings , just a random video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSp1E6jizrM

Catrau

12-16-2012, 09:51 PM

also for me this guy is like an italian gypsy , i'm not trolling, no heart fellings , just a random video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSp1E6jizrM

Since you took abour 20 minutes to respond... I guess it wasn't that random.
Maybe he could look as an Italian gipsy, I guess I agree with you. He doesn't look much Portuguese I can assure you.

Toretto

12-16-2012, 09:56 PM

Since you took abour 20 minutes to respond... I guess it wasn't that random.
Maybe he could look as an Italian gipsy, I guess I agree with you. He doesn't look much Portuguese I can assure you.

I'm just kidding. I replied in a joking way to your provocation. because that girl is far from the average Italian girl. :D

however I swear that is the second video I found. I have written only Mastifestacao on youtube

memobekes

12-16-2012, 10:00 PM

The southern Italians-Sicilians overlap with the Portuguese. The Mezzogiorno is mostly Gracilmediterranid-Alpinoid territory unlike the north where there are more Dinarids and Norids.
Portugal is uniformly Mediterranean of the Classic variant, only in the north can there be found a healthy percentage of Alpinoids.

Catrau

12-16-2012, 10:00 PM

I'm just kidding. I replied in a joking way to your provocation. because that girl is far from the average Italian girl. :D

however I swear that is the second video I found. I have written only Mastifestacao on youtube

:D I understood you were sticking thorns in my flesh :tongue

Toretto

12-16-2012, 10:01 PM

:D I understood you were sticking thorns in my flesh :tongue

ahaha :D

Damião de Góis

12-16-2012, 10:02 PM

The southern Italians-Sicilians overlap with the Portuguese. The Mezzogiorno is mostly Gracilmediterranid-Alpinoid territory unlike the north where there are more Dinarids and Norids.
Portugal is uniformly Mediterranean of the Classic variant, only in the north can there be found a healthy percentage of Alpinoids.

where did you read that, in a public bathroom wall?

memobekes

12-16-2012, 10:03 PM

where did you read that, in a public bathroom wall?
What do you mean by that? :confused:

Toretto

12-16-2012, 10:04 PM

where did you read that, in a public bathroom wall?

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahah ahahaha

Lábaru

12-16-2012, 10:04 PM

No one, the girl or the man look gypsy.

Damião de Góis

12-16-2012, 10:04 PM

What do you mean by that? :confused:

I'm curious about where you got the information you just wrote.

Catrau

12-16-2012, 10:05 PM

... The Mezzogiorno is mostly Gracilmediterranid-Alpinoid territory ..

..Portugal is uniformly Mediterranean of the Classic variant...

I think you are imagining things but I let that for the experts. There is a lot of Alpinoids in Portugal and those are also Gracile. In fact Alpinids migrate here in the past and that's where their migration ended.

Lábaru

12-16-2012, 10:05 PM

What do you mean by that? :confused:

is a gracile mediterranean joke, Semitic brains can not understand this kind of fun.

Toretto

12-16-2012, 10:06 PM

No one, the girl or the man look gypsy.

the important thing is that i do not seem to :D

Gaijin

12-16-2012, 10:08 PM

The southern Italians-Sicilians overlap with the Portuguese. The Mezzogiorno is mostly Gracilmediterranid-Alpinoid territory unlike the north where there are more Dinarids and Norids.
:lol00002:

The only Italians who cluster right next to Portugal, are the Northern ones.
(I already posted a map in page 2 (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1227905&postcount=18)).

Here's another one, to contemplate your "assertive" argument...:eusa_doh:
http://nextnature.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/genetic_map_of_europe_530.jpg

Portugal is uniformly Mediterranean of the Classic variant, only in the north can there be found a healthy percentage of Alpinoids.

Uniformly Mediterranean?
Here's an excerpt from Immunogenetics.

...Portuguese and Basques do not show the Mediterranean A33-B14-DR1 haplotype, suggesting a lower admixture with Mediterraneans...

memobekes

12-16-2012, 10:09 PM

I'm curious about where you got the information you just wrote.
These are observations made by anthropologists. You can also access lots of racial maps depicting such data.

http://i47.tinypic.com/309odpz.gifhttp://i46.tinypic.com/31619jl.jpghttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_codMg03Js-Y/SxCPRNQjBaI/AAAAAAAAAJE/vTH3_5W_1TY/s1600/bigracemap01.jpg

Catrau

12-16-2012, 10:13 PM

These are observations made by anthropologists. You can also access lots of racial maps depicting such data.

http://i47.tinypic.com/309odpz.gifhttp://i46.tinypic.com/31619jl.jpghttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_codMg03Js-Y/SxCPRNQjBaI/AAAAAAAAAJE/vTH3_5W_1TY/s1600/bigracemap01.jpg

Aren't these XIXth century maps?
I really don't know but they look like.

memobekes

12-16-2012, 10:13 PM

I think you are imagining things but I let that for the experts. There is a lot of Alpinoids in Portugal and those are also Gracile. In fact Alpinids migrate here in the past and that's where their migration ended.

Portugal is, on the whole, fully as Mediterranean in race as is Spain and, perhaps, in some respects, it is more so.

there are no regions in Portugal in which brachycephaly is as important as in the Asturias and Galicia. In fact, Portugal contains some of the lowest cephalic index means on the continent of Europe.

Source: The Races of Europe by Carleton Stevens Coon, 1939.

memobekes

12-16-2012, 10:15 PM

:lol00002:

The only Italians who cluster right next to Portugal, are the Northern ones.
(I already posted a map in page 2 (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1227905&postcount=18)).

Here's another one, to contemplate your assertive argument...:eusa_doh:
http://nextnature.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/genetic_map_of_europe_530.jpg

Uniformly Mediterranean?
Here's an excerpt from Immunogenetics.

You are talking about genes, there's a difference.

Lábaru

12-16-2012, 10:15 PM

These are observations made by anthropologists. You can also access lots of racial maps depicting such data.

Nice. Another map:
http://diarioelsiciliano.com.ar/diario/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/waldseemueller-primer-mapa-con-el-nombre-de-Am%C3%A9rica-este-se-conoc%C3%ADa-antes-de-de-2012..jpg

Catrau

12-16-2012, 10:21 PM

Source: The Races of Europe by Carleton Stevens Coon, 1939.

You know that Coon was far from an expert on Iberians? judging by his writings he really didn't knew much.
His book has no colored charts, another one is in French, so I guess only the first one is from Coon's book "The Races of Europe"

Also the 3 maps don't overlap that much.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50095

Rouxinol

12-16-2012, 10:21 PM

Of all the Italians, Sicilians, Calabrese and other Southern Italian "fauna" are the ones that look more distinct from the Portuguese due to heavy Dinarid and East Mediterranid input which is like almost absent in Portugal (except for some dinaridoid tendencies in some Baskid-like types). To those we can add the predominantly Northern Italy-based Norids and occasional Sub-Nordids, which are also foreign-looking. Now, let's not talk on Mediterranids as whole, since there are different types of Mediterranids so there's no sense in talking as if they were all the same. Who fails to acknowledge this has never been to Portugal or to Italy. No relationship whatsoever. Portugal is not a pure classical Mediterranid stock haven by no means as well (I understand by this you are referring to Gracile/West Mediterranid): types in the Atlanto-Mediterranid/Atlantid spectrum are as much as common. Yes, they are Mediterranid, but not the same as East Mediterranid, for instance. Then there are Alpinids and Southern Cro-Magnids/Berids as well, and mixtures of all those types put together, and a minor (yet significant) Paleo Atlantid and North Atlantid population. The maps by 19th century anthropologists are not based on in-loco evidence for sure, since they depict North Africa as populated by Atlanto-Mediterranids (C. Coon!)... Go figure.

memobekes

12-16-2012, 10:25 PM

You know that Coon was far from an expert on Iberians? judging by his writings he really didn't knew much.
His book has no colored charts, another one is in French, so I guess only the first one is from Coon's book "The Races of Europe"

Also the 3 maps don't overlap that much.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50095
As with most of the groups he discusses, he quotes from other sources and in the case of Iberians he reflects on data gathered by Spanish and Portuguese authors. Coon was and still is a giant in racial anthropology.

Damião de Góis

12-16-2012, 10:26 PM

You are talking about genes, there's a difference.

Yes of course, that's the same guy that wrote that the only difference between arabs and spaniards was hair color and nose. Or the jews came to Iberia with the Moors, or that southern iberians look the same as non-riffian north africans, with riffians being lighter people.

But what would a turk know about that, right?

Lábaru

12-16-2012, 10:28 PM

But what would a turk know about that, right?

I think he is Iranian or something similar, a Turk is European enough to understand the bathroom joke.

memobekes

12-16-2012, 10:35 PM

Rouxinol

12-16-2012, 10:46 PM

The Mediterranean strain that preponderates in Portugal is of the Classic variant (Deniker's "Ibero-Insular").

That's equal to West Mediterranid or Gracile Mediterranid in other terminologies. And yes, that's very different from Southern Italian types, so no comparison can be drawn. Anyway, it's an important strain but I disagree that it's the most common out of my own observations living in this place. It's just as preponderate as Atlanto-Mediterranid or Atlanto-Mediterranid/Atlantid mixes. And there's a lot of Cro-Magnid influences as well. This is what I see everyday.

Damião de Góis

12-16-2012, 10:50 PM

Anyway, italian posters... how typical or atypical would she be in Italy?

http://videos.sapo.pt/t0i6Kkj3Z8Qj64zLoCCi

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 11:02 PM

I don't know that the "Gracile Med" type is as prevalent either in southern Italy or in Iberia as memobekes thinks. Iberians tend to be more of Atlanto-Med, and southern Italians tend to either be Gracile-Meds with heavy Dinarid and Alpine influences that do not make them look Iberian at all, or they tend to be East Med.

I'd say Sicilians and Calabrese, of all Italians, are the least Iberian looking along with people from northeastern Italy and parts of the Adriatic coast.

memobekes

12-16-2012, 11:02 PM

That's equal to West Mediterranid or Gracile Mediterranid in other terminologies. And yes, that's very different from Southern Italian types, so no comparison can be drawn. Anyway, it's an important strain but I disagree that it's the most common out of my own observations living in this place. It's just as preponderate as Atlanto-Mediterranid or Atlanto-Mediterranid/Atlantid mixes. And there's a lot of Cro-Magnid influences as well. This is what I see everyday.
On average the Portuguese are more gracile than the Italians, that's correct. Atlanto-Mediterraneans are more common in Italy (northern) and the coastal parts of Spain (Catalonia/Valencia) with numbers present in the eastern Balkans and Greece, too.

Rouxinol

12-16-2012, 11:04 PM

On average the Portuguese are more gracile than the Italians, that's correct. Atlanto-Mediterraneans are more common in Italy (northern) and the coastal parts of Spain (Catalonia/Valencia) with numbers present in the eastern Balkans and Greece, too.

Disagree (bold). And doesn't make much sense. But I won't further argue, let's just agree to disagree and live happily.

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 11:04 PM

On average the Portuguese are more gracile than the Italians, that's correct. Atlanto-Mediterraneans are more common in Italy (northern) and the coastal parts of Spain (Catalonia/Valencia) with numbers present in the eastern Balkans and Greece, too.

I think you're incorrect. I've seen more Atlanto-Med and Atlantid type of Portuguese than I have seen pure Gracile Med.

memobekes

12-16-2012, 11:08 PM

I think you're incorrect. I've seen more Atlanto-Med and Atlantid type of Portuguese than I have seen pure Gracile Med.
There are some Atlantids in Portugal but Italy has more Atlanto-Mediterraneans, that was my point. I do not feel the need to justify this claim either as it has already been proven. Just study the maps i posted earlier.

Damião de Góis

12-16-2012, 11:12 PM

From now on, whenever i post some atlanto-med from Portugal i will say he looks italian before portuguese, in honour of our turk friend and his maps.

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 11:12 PM

There are some Atlantids in Portugal but Italy has more Atlanto-Mediterraneans, that was my point. I do not feel the need to justify this claim either as it has already been proven. Just study the maps i posted earlier.

I trust what I have seen with my own eyes and what people from these countries say than the words of anthropologists from the early 1900s.

Southern Italy, especially Sicily and Calabria, has its share of East Meds as well.

Midori

12-16-2012, 11:18 PM

These are observations made by anthropologists. You can also access lots of racial maps depicting such data.

Using Coon as source :picard1: He was wrong about so MANY things. Any person with decent knowledge in anthropology knows his maps are pure shite.

Lábaru

12-16-2012, 11:20 PM

Memo-bekes you think you can fit in Italy or Portugal?

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 11:21 PM

Memo-bekes you think you can fit in Italy or Portugal?

I think he can't fit in either, or even in Greece.

memobekes

12-16-2012, 11:28 PM

I trust what I have seen with my own eyes and what people from these countries say than the words of anthropologists from the early 1900s.

Southern Italy, especially Sicily and Calabria, has its share of East Meds as well.

People-watching is not science and we are not anthropologists. These people went out and measured skulls and studied facial traits, that is how these classifications are made.

memobekes

12-16-2012, 11:29 PM

Using Coon as source :picard1: He was wrong about so MANY things. Any person with decent knowledge in anthropology knows his maps are pure shite.
You need to back up your claims with scientific evidence. If you can't then you should refrain from making such redundant statements.

aimar

12-16-2012, 11:35 PM

Some Campanian groups

http://www.radiof2.unina.it/wp-content/gallery/fru-2011/dscn8353.jpg

No, and the group pics posted on this thread reinforced my opinion.

This group above is the only one I wouln't have a hard time believing they were portuguese.

Midori

12-16-2012, 11:35 PM

You need to back up your claims with scientific evidence. If you can't then you should refrain from making such redundant statements.

You don't need scientific evidence to know that North Africans aren't lighter than Southern Europeans.

Lábaru

12-16-2012, 11:40 PM

You need to back up your claims with scientific evidence. If you can't then you should refrain from making such redundant statements.

Coon a cientific evidence xD xD xD

Damião de Góis

12-16-2012, 11:42 PM

There are some Atlantids in Portugal

Wait a second, where are you getting this from? Coon didn't mention any of this, so did you just made that up?

Sikeliot

12-16-2012, 11:53 PM

Some more group photos:

Molise --

http://imageshack.us/a/img38/1893/18975216352432370115613.jpghttp://imageshack.us/a/img826/2936/67633170540983088412155.jpg

Sicilian --

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/546408_2834629643276_2016501999_n.jpg
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s720x720/179131_3850258307224_469511019_n.jpg
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/167900_1578958429129_4609507_n.jpg
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/10459_4693239410541_1813570037_n.jpg

Apulia --

http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/398240_511284112215922_320857025_n.jpghttp://imageshack.us/a/img689/130/10314511283455549321889.jpghttp://imageshack.us/a/img594/6162/52864451128312221602125.jpghttp://imageshack.us/a/img502/5072/57694651128349221598486.jpg

Rouxinol

12-16-2012, 11:53 PM

How many Italians and Portuguese did Coon measure? From what regions? Did he ever set foot in Italy or Portugal? According to him N. Africa and the Sahara desert is inhabited by pure Atlanto-Mediterranids whereas accordingly to his map they're almost non-existant in the Iberian peninsula. That fact alone is enough to discredit him. Other 19th century anthropologists did similar errors. Nowadays we have enough education to assess the "sicence" of physical anthropology without a college degree on Anthropology (it's not such a complex thing as Chemistry or Physics that an average mind, without specific training on it, cannot dig into). Moreover, nowadays we have easy access via the Internet to tons of photographic records that allow us to see how populations actually look like phenotypically, something they did not have back in the days... So, I rather believe my eyes than Coon's and other 19th century, long-gone fellows.

Lábaru

12-16-2012, 11:55 PM

Wait a second, where are you getting this from? Coon didn't mention any of this, so did you just made that up?

There are cientific evidence.
http://www.asinah.net/travel-guides/images/portugal/map.jpg

Damião de Góis

12-16-2012, 11:57 PM

There are cientific evidence.
http://www.asinah.net/travel-guides/images/portugal/map.jpg

He should be coherent, if he is defending what coon said then Portugal is 100% mediterranean with little or no variation. So, no atlantids here.

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 09:17 AM

Iberians cluster closer to North Italians only on West Eurasian plots. On global plots (who measure the real genentic distance) they are quite far from North Italians.

Peyrol

12-17-2012, 09:24 AM

I opened some months ago a real intersting thread named ''North african whiteness fale myth'', with about 200 pictures of real northafricans, not blue eyed cherrypicking usually posted on anthrophoras.
But the thread disappeared, i can't find the topic.

''Whiteness'' of north africans is the funniest legend of the anthrophoras.

Catrau

12-17-2012, 09:24 AM

Iberians cluster closer to North Italians only on West Eurasian plots. On global plots (who measure the real genentic distance) they are quite far from North Italians.

I fail to see the logic of that.
That is not expanding.
That is contracting: put more "world" in the same frame.
If the frame gets bigger to absorb the global input then it only makes sense if it gets proportionally bigger. Distances maintain.
Too add input and at the same time over expand the frame makes no sense. Only if you want to artificially exaggerate differences.

I've tried to be such a smart ass in the past but my tactic was put to the ground in a split second, never forgot it...

Peyrol

12-17-2012, 09:29 AM

Peyrol

12-17-2012, 09:37 AM

:lol00002:

The only Italians who cluster right next to Portugal, are the Northern ones.
(I already posted a map in page 2 (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1227905&postcount=18)).

Here's another one, to contemplate your "assertive" argument...:eusa_doh:
http://nextnature.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/genetic_map_of_europe_530.jpg

Uniformly Mediterranean?
Here's an excerpt from Immunogenetics.

It's the ''IT2'' on the map referred to northern italians?

Because the point of IT2 is on Marche, a region that isn't northern Italy, but in the centre.

This is the North

http://www.cavalieridellaluce.net/nord/files/nord_big.gif

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 11:18 AM

I fail to see the logic of that.

There is a lot of logic in that. West Eurasian plots don't pinoint african ancestry, unlike global plots.

Catrau

12-17-2012, 11:39 AM

There is a lot of logic in that. West Eurasian plots don't pinoint african ancestry, unlike global plots.

Maybe there is some kind of logic in that, i belive you but it's far from common logic.

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 11:50 AM

Maybe there is some kind of logic in that, i belive you but it's far from common logic.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/Kadu_album/Imagem109-2.png

Although I do think that Spaniards should be divided by regions because full blooded Catalans/North Eastern Spaniards are overrepresented in the Spanish cluster. Some parts of Spain are not that different from Portuguese regarding african ancestry.

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 12:00 PM

Although I do think that Spaniards should be divided by regions because full blooded Catalans/North Eastern Spaniards are overrepresented in the Spanish cluster. .

xD xD xD this guy is very funny.

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 12:03 PM

xD xD xD this guy is very funny.

Why don't you see the percentage of neo african + paleo african admix of the various spanish regions?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?pli=1&key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedGR2ZWRoQ0VaWTc0dlV1cHh4ZUNJRUE&type=view&gid=7&f=true&sortcolid=1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

Bye.

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 12:08 PM

BTW the "Spaniards" cluster includes 5 Catalans and 5 Southern Spaniards. So the Catalans are overrepresented.

Catrau

12-17-2012, 12:13 PM

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/Kadu_album/Imagem109-2.png

Although I do think that Spaniards should be divided by regions because full blooded Catalans/North Eastern Spaniards are overrepresented in the Spanish cluster. Some parts of Spain are not that different from Portuguese regarding african ancestry.

Ok, I finally got it. African Ancestry... lack of Africa in Euroasian plots etc. I see, the old talk. I don't want to argue about that outdated and unseen in real life misconception.

That's funny how you believe in a plot that places Portuguese closer to Assyrian and Azeri than to Spanish let alone French or Italians.. Also the only Africans that I see in this plot are Moroccan Jews (are they ethnic Moroccan?)

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 12:18 PM

Why don't you see the percentage of neo african + paleo african admix of the various spanish regions?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?pli=1&key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedGR2ZWRoQ0VaWTc0dlV1cHh4ZUNJRUE&type=view&gid=7&f=true&sortcolid=1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

Bye.

You are ridicolous and obsessed. This thread is about portugal. Anyway I need 1 hour to back to my house and then I will give your medicine.

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 12:19 PM

Anyway I need 1 hour to back to my house and then I will give your medicine.

I am awating.

Ouistreham

12-17-2012, 12:49 PM

Rouxinol

12-17-2012, 01:00 PM

^Typical Calabrese would have Dinarid input (mostly visible in nose and skull shape), absent in those Portuguese (as in most of the rest).

Catrau

12-17-2012, 01:24 PM

I'm not an expert as for Portugal and their people (I've never been there), but when I see Portuguese migrants and group pictures, it strikes me how much they resemble Southern Italians, more so than Spaniards.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dAQYbixCfag/UFBsrjYQ2uI/AAAAAAAAAYo/Q_4gXvlTwlA/s1600/Mundial2007_Portugueses_Net_JLGonzalez.jpg

Look at the city council (Municipio) of Portuguese town Coimbra: those people would fit perfectly well in Calabria (much less in Central/Northern Italy IMHO):
http://www.cm-coimbra.pt/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=56&Itemid=120

You have to search for another pic them. This one doesn’t corroborates your theory.

Can you recognize portuguese migrants in the street in France? Because I can't recognize French in Portugal, unless they speak (Portuguese or French) or look nordic, lets say, as Deutch, for example.

On the other hand, I like that plate in blue and white... beautiful colors for Portugal, nice photo choice.

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 01:41 PM

Although I do think that Spaniards should be divided by regions because full blooded Catalans/North Eastern Spaniards are overrepresented in the Spanish cluster. Some parts of Spain are not that different from Portuguese regarding african ancestry.

as I told you, you're obsessed with Spain, you want to look like us, and it seems that the only way to get it is to sow discord in each thread.

if we, Spanish and Portuguese, agree on something is that none of us looks like you or your people, this is not an insult, it's simple reality.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/08/13/science/figure1a_600.jpg

This is a map where the Portuguese are selected from South of Portugal. The Northern Portuguese can be considered Center/middle Iberian, not North Iberian.

the ITA2 are selected from central-north Italy, not the extreme North, San Marino-Ancona?

even on this way the South Portuguese cluster more northern than these Italians (Ita2). and southern Italy is much more far down.

another map showing how different we are.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/genmap1.jpg

and these maps take into account all genes, African and Middle East included, fact it.

if your point is that the Italians of the Alps are not included, ok, they are pure Germans, forget them(even Andalusians have more Atlantid-Baltid genes).----->https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadC1kRjhxcHNfSGhPYlUxbEI0VVZPR 0E#gid=0

Cantabrians, Basques, Galicians, Navarrese and Aragonese are not included and the Spanish did not make a drama of it.

And remember, this thread is about Italy vs Portugal. no sense to speak of Spain, your obsession with Spain, your interest for make us look darkest is a complete nonsense, even darkest our traits differ from yours.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg855/scaled.php?server=855&filename=76917781.png&res=medium
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg607/scaled.php?server=607&filename=euroadmix.png&res=medium

Peyrol

12-17-2012, 01:43 PM

Lol @ Iberia more ''european'' than the Netherlands :lol:

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 01:46 PM

Again these are all west eurasian plots. Global plots are the only ones who show the real genetic distances because the pinpoint all the kinds of ancestries and not only the west eurasian ones. I could post you west eurasian plots where North Africans are very close to Sardinians, but we know that is bullshit.

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 01:50 PM

Look at the city council (Municipio) of Portuguese town Coimbra: those people would fit perfectly well in Calabria (much less in Central/Northern Italy IMHO):
http://www.cm-coimbra.pt/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=56&Itemid=120

I don't think they fit in Calabria. I should find group photos of the Calabrese, where I imagine you'll see much more Alpine, Dinaric, and East Med influence.

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 01:50 PM

Lol @ Iberia more ''european'' than the Netherlands :lol:

Yes, taking into account West European+East European+Mediterranean admixture, I do not see the problem. is just one way of looking at things, if we take other genes as Europeans, another perspective, maybe the result is different.

Catrau

12-17-2012, 01:53 PM

Lol @ Iberia more ''european'' than the Netherlands :lol:

Where have you seen that? I want to laught too.
We are both Europeans.
Are yoy alking about Labaru map? 1% means nothing.

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 01:56 PM

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 01:58 PM

You can see it as you like, the result is that we are not the same thing, genetically speaking.

:rolleyes:

O RLY? We look quite different indeed. I've just claimed that many spanish individuals pass unnoticed in Campania. The same happens for other nationalities. Truth hurts?

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 01:59 PM

:rolleyes:

O RLY? We look quite different indeed. I've just claimed that many spanish individuals pass unnoticed in Campania. The same happens for other nationalities. Truth hurts?

Apart from Scandinavians, Baltic people, Finns, and East Slavs, I think most Europeans could pass in Campania unnoticed on an individual basis.

Whats weird to me is when you first posted on here, you would say that you didn't think Iberians passed in your region because of their Western European features.. and now you say the opposite.

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 02:01 PM

Whats weird to me is when you first posted on here, you would say that you didn't think Iberians passed in your region because of their Western European features.. and now you say the opposite.

Because you have posted group photos.

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 02:02 PM

Because you have posted group photos.

I think the group photos reinforce my opinion, that on average, you just cannot mistake Portuguese people for south-central Italians.

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 02:03 PM

:rolleyes:

O RLY? We look quite different indeed. I've just claimed that many spanish individuals pass unnoticed in Campania. The same happens for other nationalities. Truth hurts?

Yes, and many Russians in England, and? A lot of Turkeys can pass unnoticed in Campania too.

Wannabe Spanish xD We can call you "dark Spanish" if you wish, just remembed, this thread is about Portugal.

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 02:04 PM

I'd be able to, btw, more quickly distinguish Portuguese from southern Italians than I would Spaniards. But neither really looks like them.

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 02:05 PM

Yes, and many Russians in England, and? A lot of Turkeys can pass unnoticed in Campania too.

Probably yes but we don't have many Turks here.

Wannabe Spanish xD We can call you "dark Spanish" if you wish, just remembed, this thread is about Portugal.

The lack of moorish admix won't make me dark.

Trun

12-17-2012, 02:06 PM

A fight about genetics in a phenotype thread is out of place.

Peyrol

12-17-2012, 02:08 PM

A fight about genetics in a phenotype thread is out of place.

True.
Genotype =/= pheotype

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 02:09 PM

The lack of moorish admix won't make me dark.

who is now the burthurt? but you're right, the reason of that you look dark is the high amount of Levantine DNA, not a 1-2%, a looooot more, is the reason because a lot of times you looks like Jews. Face it.

And now you are happy?

Catrau

12-17-2012, 02:11 PM

Labaru and Capelli, can we stop this endless discussions?

We all know where this will end and it's useless.
Capelli stop calling us moors because we don't like that, it's offensive, those guys were our enemies, it's like a cats and dogs thing also because it's a lie and if we are moors so you italians are.

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 02:12 PM

who is now the burthurt? but you're right, the reason of that you look dark is the high amount of Levantine DNA, not a 1-2%, a looooot more, is the reason because a lot of times you looks like Jews. Face it.

And now you are happy?

Well you started pages of off topic when I stated that Spaniards pass here better than Sardinians. Also North Italians and some Balkan ethnicities pass here better than you if that makes you feel better. Anyway I am happy with my "levantine" admix which is found in all Europeans in various degree, unlike 2-3% SSA admix in you.

Trun

12-17-2012, 02:14 PM

Labaru and Capelli, can we stop this endless discussions?

Wog temperament, what do you expect...

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 02:20 PM

Labaru and Capelli, can we stop this endless discussions?
.

this boy cried for help, he was confused, he have wet dreams of being like us, if we deny it he gets angry and calls us Moors. I simply have helped him. Now my work is done.

Gaijin

12-17-2012, 02:21 PM

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7231/6922380462_36a2e466da_b.jpg

Southern Italians have alot more in common with Turks.

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 02:23 PM

I'm prepared for the hate this comment will get me, but in my town we have both Portuguese and Lebanese people.. and it's easy to tell who is Portuguese, but it's not so easy to recognize the Lebanese people, mostly Christian, from the Italians Americans (mostly of Sicilian and Calabrese descent).

Kazuma

12-17-2012, 02:30 PM

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7231/6922380462_36a2e466da_b.jpg

Southern Italians have alot more in common with Turks.

You have to consider subclades, otherwise you have to admit the existance of a Scando-Balkan-Sardinian league because of I haplogroup :thumb001:

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 02:36 PM

Yeah beacuse haplogroups are connected with phenotypes...

Btw Labaru is just another arrogant kiddo with a lot of free time. I've just stated that Spaniards pass better here than Sardinians looking at the Spanish erasmus students. In his small brain that means that I want to look like a Spaniard. OMG!

Peyrol

12-17-2012, 02:37 PM

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7231/6922380462_36a2e466da_b.jpg

Southern Italians have alot more in common with Turks.

Nice map, Terror_Romanorum/ Visigoth/ Adamastor.

You have to consider subclades, otherwise you have to admit the existance of a Scando-Balkan-Sardinian league because of I haplogroup :thumb001:

Yup, the famous sardinian colonization of Scania...or vice versa?

Gaijin

12-17-2012, 02:39 PM

Yeah beacuse haplogroups are connected with phenotypes...

You and Lábaru were arguing about Genotypes, in the last posts.
Can you scroll up, or do you want me to quote your entries?

Ira di Dio

12-17-2012, 02:40 PM

There is some overlap, as with all other Southern European countries.

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 02:53 PM

You and Lábaru were arguing about Genotypes, in the last posts.
Can you scroll up, or do you want me to quote your entries?

He started with the usual shit "we are nordic" and I had to correct him.

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 03:06 PM

He started with the usual shit "we are nordic" and I had to correct him.

You are confused again, is you who dreams with look like the Spanish. You are projecting your own complexes on us.

Peyrol

12-17-2012, 03:08 PM

Can both you stop this flame-war and return to the topic, please?

Ira di Dio

12-17-2012, 03:08 PM

You are confused again, is you who dreams with look like the Spanish. You are projecting your own complexes on us.
:D... Confess Joseph, is it true? Do you want to look like the Spaniards? (:picard2:)

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 03:09 PM

Can we stay on topic?

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 03:12 PM

:D... Confess Joseph, is it true? Do you want to look like the Spaniards? (:picard2:)

Yes I want to look like Sergio Busquets.

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 03:15 PM

Some Portuguese.. I can't imagine, at least as a group, mistaking any of these for Italian.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Up_queima.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2263/2492514970_9e3fee32d0.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3195/2475568137_112cd341d4.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y8d6Ck8gFjY/S-1rF-bF1RI/AAAAAAAACiY/vFdfmm2rGzI/s1600/MF+Imagem+026.jpghttp://oi52.tinypic.com/e0g1z8.jpghttp://oi55.tinypic.com/1zehv1c.jpghttp://oi56.tinypic.com/2nbyb1c.jpg

Kazuma

12-17-2012, 03:17 PM

Rouxinol

12-17-2012, 03:17 PM

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 03:22 PM

^Exactly. Balkanites are probably the S. Europeans that overlap the most with mainland Italians. Someone make a topic on that.

Some of the more distinct Portuguese appearances, I have come to find, are shared with Basques, which might mean that Portuguese are actually some of the oldest and longest-established Southern Europeans. Given how much Neolithic West Asian influence Italians have, it only makes sense that you can often tell them apart.

It's actually funny because my mother, when she lived in New Jersey, was never mistaken for Italian and neither was anyone on my Portuguese side of the family. But now that my mom is almost 50, and has a Sicilian last name (she never changed it back after the divorce), people do think she is Italian sometimes.

Kazuma

12-17-2012, 03:25 PM

Some of the more distinct Portuguese appearances, I have come to find, are shared with Basques, which might mean that Portuguese are actually some of the oldest and longest-established Southern Europeans. Given how much Neolithic West Asian influence Italians have, it only makes sense that you can often tell them apart.

It's actually funny because my mother, when she lived in New Jersey, was never mistaken for Italian and neither was anyone on my Portuguese side of the family. But now that my mom is almost 50, and has a Sicilian last name (she never changed it back after the divorce), people do think she is Italian sometimes.

maybe because she is half polish?

Ira di Dio

12-17-2012, 03:25 PM

http://oi56.tinypic.com/2nbyb1c.jpg
These educated Hoghwaths-like Portuguese students make for a great comparison if I think of the lowlife metrosexual guidos you post in your Italian threads. ;)

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 03:27 PM

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I don't know what you're laughing at, especially considering that genetics corroborate my point as well.. Calabrese and Sicilians are genetically closer to the Lebanese than to Portugal.

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 03:28 PM

maybe because she is half polish?

She looks 100% Portuguese. But even still, neither my grandmother, my great aunt, nor any of my mom's cousins could, or have ever been, mistaken for Italian. They either look very Portuguese or almost quadroon, *depending on which relative I show you.

* NOT SAYING PORTUGUESE LOOK MIXED.

These educated Hoghwaths-like Portuguese students make for a great comparison if I think of the lowlife metrosexual guidos you post in your Italian threads. ;)

I posted group photos of normal southern Italians, and they don't look like those Portuguese people even still.

Ira di Dio

12-17-2012, 03:33 PM

I posted group photos of normal southern Italians, and they don't look like those Portuguese people even still.
Sure, we all know that your Italian-related threads are always completely unbiased. :)

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 03:36 PM

Sure, we all know that your Italian-related threads are always completely unbiased. :)

Are not you one of those who argue that the southern Italians do not fit in Tuscany and northern Italy? What is the problem now? The Portuguese are even more different.

Catrau

12-17-2012, 03:39 PM

These educated Hoghwaths-like Portuguese students make for a great comparison if I think of the lowlife metrosexual guidos you post in your Italian threads. ;)

Blue - Engineering
Red - Law
Yellow - Medicine

Ira di Dio

12-17-2012, 03:40 PM

Are not you one of those who argue that the southern Italians do not fit in Tuscany and northern Italy?
No. Apparently, your comprehension skills are as limited as your writing skills, which is surprising considering the huge amount of time that you spend in an English language forum such as this. :)

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 03:41 PM

No. Apparently, your comprehension skills blahblahblah

then you are agree?

Ira di Dio

12-17-2012, 03:45 PM

then you are agree?
It's a pity that that Atlantic connection of yours doesn't help you to get even a B1-level English isn't it?

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 03:48 PM

It's a pity that that Atlantic connection of yours doesn't help you to get even a B1-level English isn't it?

I see, you do not have the courage to give an opinion. You're a coward.

Ira di Dio

12-17-2012, 03:52 PM

I see, you do not have the courage to give an opinion. You're a coward.
An opinion about what, you little mong?

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 03:53 PM

Sure, we all know that your Italian-related threads are always completely unbiased. :)

All of the pictures I posted here came from other people, except the Sicilian ones which I got from Facebook. But the point is still the same -- in general, Portuguese and Italians (especially southerners), while having a "southern European" look, do not look alike.

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 03:56 PM

An opinion about what, you little mong?

About this northern Italian from Bergamo, he fits in israel? is your clon?:rolleyes:
8WjL4fSerPU

Ira di Dio

12-17-2012, 03:58 PM

All of the pictures I posted here came from other people, except the Sicilian ones which I got from Facebook. But the point is still the same -- in general, Portuguese and Italians (especially northerners), while having a "southern European" look, do not look alike.
I agree with your general point (i.e. they can be distinguished most of the times), but I don't think that the Northern Italians look any closer to the Portuguese than the Southern Italians do, as you seem to imply.

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 03:59 PM

Great cherrypick retard. But Di Sirio is a Lucanian surname.

Toretto

12-17-2012, 04:00 PM

I posted group photos of normal southern Italians

if I can give my opinion... in 23 years of life I've seen a lot of guys from Sicily, Calabria, Puglia, Campania and Basilicata, and I can guarantee that the average is different from what you put. it almost seems like you choose a careful selection of strange-looking people,some are strange I admit
but I've seen more here in 2 months than in my entire life around the south of Italy.
.if they are not then I apologize. it is just a coincidence.
But I ask you kindly not to compare southern italian- american or american sicilian with the real people of the south italy, because most of the time are mixed with other nations (like you) , you told me that the Portuguese in your city are dark and strange. is for the same reason, they are mixed with other non-EU nations.
I struggle to write in English. I hope I was clear. and you did not get offended.

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 04:01 PM

I agree with your general point (i.e. they can be distinguished most of the times), but I don't think that the Northern Italians look any closer to the Portuguese than the Southern Italians do, as you seem to imply.

They do, because the Med types in northern Italy are more western European looking, I think.

Ira di Dio

12-17-2012, 04:01 PM

About this northern Italian from Bergamo, he fits in israel? is your clon?:rolleyes:
8WjL4fSerPU
A guy called Alfredo DI SIRIO Bergamese, little mong? Am I supposed to believe this shit? :picard2::picard2::picard2:
You fail. Again and again... :D

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 04:02 PM

A guy called Alfredo DI SIRIO Bergamese, little mong? Am I supposed to believe this shit? :picard2::picard2::picard2:
You fail. Again and again... :D

hahahahaha you understand my English when you want, that's good.

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 04:02 PM

if I can give my opinion... in 23 years of life I've seen a lot of guys from Sicily, Calabria, Puglia, Campania and Basilicata, and I can guarantee that the average is different from what you put. it almost seems like you choose a careful selection of strange-looking people,some are strange I admit
but I've seen more here in 2 months than in my entire life around the south of Italy.
.if they are not then I apologize. it is just a coincidence.

Get a Facebook. I guarantee you'll see that the people I post are certainly not strange based on the selection I have to choose from.

But then again, Greeks on here say I post odd Greeks too, so who knows. But either way, no matter what, I have seen very few Iberian looking southern Italians.

Ira di Dio

12-17-2012, 04:03 PM

They do, because the Med types in northern Italy are more western European looking, I think.
Pigmentation-wise they don't. Also gracilemeds and berids (or paleosardinians) are more common in the south.

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 04:04 PM

Great cherrypick retard. But Di Sirio is a Lucanian surname.

What is the problem? I accept Busquet as my countryman without drama.

maybe the depigmented version fits better in the North?
TWgSVMid5VU

Toretto

12-17-2012, 04:04 PM

Get a Facebook. I guarantee you'll see that the people I post are certainly not strange based on the selection I have to choose from.

But then again, Greeks on here say I post odd Greeks too, so who knows. But either way, no matter what, I have seen very few Iberian looking southern Italians.

this is another matter. I think that the Portuguese are different from my people.

Toretto

12-17-2012, 04:07 PM

if I can give my opinion... in 23 years of life I've seen a lot of guys from Sicily, Calabria, Puglia, Campania and Basilicata, and I can guarantee that the average is different from what you put. it almost seems like you choose a careful selection of strange-looking people,some are strange I admit
but I've seen more here in 2 months than in my entire life around the south of Italy.
.if they are not then I apologize. it is just a coincidence.
But I ask you kindly not to compare southern italian- american or american sicilian with the real people of the south italy, because most of the time are mixed with other nations (like you) , you told me that the Portuguese in your city are dark and strange. is for the same reason, they are mixed with other non-EU nations.
I struggle to write in English. I hope I was clear. and you did not get offended.

and add that for me the portoguese are generally different from my people. but that's another story.

Rouxinol

12-17-2012, 04:15 PM

Conclusion (easy): the phenotypical overlap is minimal for the most part, due to heavy Dinarid and East Mediterranid input in mainland Italy, absent in Portugal. Close the thread. :)

Ira di Dio

12-17-2012, 04:21 PM

Conclusion (easy): the phenotypical overlap is minimal for the most part, due to heavy Dinarid and East Mediterranid input in mainland Italy, absent in Portugal.
That's right, for example in Northern Italy we are filled with dinaro-eastmeds like this guy:

http://intothetopcorner.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/rui-patricio4.jpg

:laugh:

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 04:22 PM

What is the problem? I accept Busquet as my countryman without drama.

maybe the depigmented version fits better in the North?

You would spend months before finding a full blooded North Italian who looks like Sergio Busquets or Fabio Coentrao. ;)

Rouxinol

12-17-2012, 04:34 PM

That's right, for example in Northern Italy we are filled with dinaro-eastmeds like this guy:

http://intothetopcorner.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/rui-patricio4.jpg

:laugh:

I think he's one of those cases of overlap. He could pass in central-south Italy imo. But he's not a common Portuguese face. This one, Luís Menezes (Member of Parliament, PSD) is:

http://porto24.pt/files/2012/05/deputado-luis-menezes-dr.jpg

And does not fit in Italy because he's too Western.

Lábaru

12-17-2012, 04:34 PM

You would spend months before finding a full blooded North Italian who looks like Sergio Busquets or Fabio Coentrao. ;)

that's good for the northern Italian, right? is a pity that you are not North Italian:rolleyes:

Ira di Dio

12-17-2012, 04:42 PM

http://porto24.pt/files/2012/05/deputado-luis-menezes-dr.jpg
And does not fit in Italy because he's too Western.
Hey aren't those the famed Southern Italian "droopy eyes" that Sikeliot sees everywhere? :tongue

Prince Carlo

12-17-2012, 04:53 PM

that's good for the northern Italian, right? is a pity that you are not North Italian:rolleyes:

I suppose that should be a tragedy...

Slycooper

12-17-2012, 04:55 PM

I think he's one of those cases of overlap. He could pass in central-south Italy imo. But he's not a common Portuguese face. This one, Luís Menezes (Member of Parliament, PSD) is:

http://porto24.pt/files/2012/05/deputado-luis-menezes-dr.jpg

And does not fit in Italy because he's too Western.

Yes that guy looks Portuguese. But like you said not all Portuguese have that typical look. Like if you saw an Italian in your neighborhood. Or in anywhere in Portugal. Would you be able to distinguish right away that he was not Portuguese?

Rouxinol

12-17-2012, 05:13 PM

Yes that guy looks Portuguese. But like you said not all Portuguese have that typical look. Like if you saw an Italian in your neighborhood. Or in anywhere in Portugal. Would you be able to distinguish right away that he was not Portuguese?

Depends on that Italian's phenotype. Probably I wouldn't even notice him due to pigmentation, unless he was one of those dinariform types or rather depigmented as in Norid or Sub-Nordid types that occur in N. Italy more frequently. My brother-in-law is Calabrese and even though pigmentation-wise he mingles in, his Dinaro-East Mediterranid features are very foreign so if I didn't know him and came across him I would think "what an odd guy, might he be foreign? Looks rather Italian". My standpoint here regarding overlap/non-overlap is through an anthropologically-aware eye, not the common individual, so to speak.

Slycooper

12-17-2012, 05:15 PM

Depends on that Italian's phenotype. Probably I wouldn't even notice him due to pigmentation, unless he was one of those very dinariform types or rather depigmented as in Norid or Sub-Nordid types that occur in N. Italy more frequently. My brother-in-law is Calabrese and even though pigmentation-wise he mingles in, his Dinaro-East Mediterranid features are very foreign so if I didn't know him and came across him I would think "what an odd guy, might he be foreign? Looks rather Italian". My standpoint here regarding overlap/non-overlap is through a anthropology-aware eye, not the common individual, so to speak.

Yes I see. I'm not trying to say that Portuguese or Italians look exactly alike. But besides the Spanish. It's Italian and French who we are most likely going to overlap with.

P-Chan

12-17-2012, 05:26 PM

If we speak of genetics Portuguese people overlap with Northern Italians, if we speak about phenotypes I don't see any kind of similarities, main subraces in Northern Italy are Dinaric and Alpine, while in Portugual there is a great amount of Atlantids.

Catrau

12-17-2012, 06:18 PM

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 08:13 PM

Hey aren't those the famed Southern Italian "droopy eyes" that Sikeliot sees everywhere? :tongue

No.

Droopy meaning heavy, tired looking eyes. Like this:

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/228528_4110425932118_2019205084_n.jpg

Slycooper

12-17-2012, 08:17 PM

No.

Droopy meaning heavy, tired looking eyes. Like this:

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/228528_4110425932118_2019205084_n.jpg

That guy looks a lot like Rui Patricio

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 08:18 PM

Rui Patricio can pass anywhere in Southern Europe. He isn't distinctively "Portuguese" looking IMO to the extent where I'd know it right away. I may guess him as Greek if I didn't know better.

http://www.allcelebspics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Rui-Patricio.jpghttp://www.transfermarketweb.com/storage/transfermarketweb.com/img_notizie/thumb1/5119499944b7048c9e09763e01aa55e9-74962-60b3716a5194fac269c925312478ab0c.jpeg

Slycooper

12-17-2012, 08:19 PM

Rouxinol

12-17-2012, 08:21 PM

That guy looks a lot like Rui Patricio

No. Rui Patrício is good-looking. That guy is not. :lol:

Slycooper

12-17-2012, 08:23 PM

No. Rui Patrício is good-looking. That guy is not. :lol:

lol

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 08:24 PM

I don't find he and Rui Patricio look alike though. Rui Patricio IMO passes in all of Southern Europe, while the guy I posted cannot.

Slycooper

12-17-2012, 08:32 PM

The other guy just looks like a south american version of him

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 08:33 PM

Here's another pic. He doesn't look South American but he has the droopy eyes and IMO doesn't pass as Portuguese:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/75983_4431312074071_599368186_n.jpg

Slycooper

12-17-2012, 08:34 PM

Here's another pic. He doesn't look South American but he has the droopy eyes and IMO doesn't pass as Portuguese:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/75983_4431312074071_599368186_n.jpg

wth? Looks completley different in that pic.

Sikeliot

12-17-2012, 08:35 PM

Age difference of three or so years probably.

Slycooper

12-17-2012, 08:36 PM

Age difference of three or so years probably.

Seriousley. If you did not tell me it was the same guy. I would never have known.

Damião de Góis

12-17-2012, 08:43 PM

You would spend months before finding a full blooded North Italian who looks like Sergio Busquets or Fabio Coentrao. ;)

Same with Inzaghi look-alikes here.

Slycooper

12-18-2012, 01:42 AM

Bump

Ira di Dio

12-18-2012, 12:11 PM

Ye. Pan South European.
He isn't IMO: I don't see him in Northern Italy.

http://cache.images.globalsportsmedia.com/news/soccer/2012/6/16/140045header.jpg

Actually I hardly see him in Central Italy too.

Ira di Dio

12-18-2012, 12:19 PM

Same with Inzaghi look-alikes here.
Sure, Inzaghi would pass totally foreign to Portugal LOLOLOL:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-N1f2sa_ygrw/UE_OYYVHsgI/AAAAAAAAA5s/yAR7SHObe-w/s1600/Filippo-Inzaghi-as-coach.jpg

http://www.footballzz.com/img/jogadores/90/15990_ori_nuno_gomes.jpg

... And that's one of the pictures where Nuno Gomes looks least "racially ambiguous". ;)

Rouxinol

12-18-2012, 12:23 PM

^That Inzaghi guy looks more Portuguese than Italian...

Rouxinol

12-18-2012, 12:32 PM

He isn't IMO: I don't see him in Northern Italy.

http://cache.images.globalsportsmedia.com/news/soccer/2012/6/16/140045header.jpg

Actually I hardly see him in Central Italy too.

Well, if Renzo Bossi is northern Italian then almost anyone southwards pass as well, even if marginally - much easier yet in central Italy. That one definitely wouldn't pass around here easily.

http://www.direttanews.it/wp-content/uploads/renzo-bossi1.jpg

And I fail to see any ambiguity in Nuno Gomes. Just a Gracile Mediterranid for the most part:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnrolvQUrb1qgwgkro2_250.jpg

Peyrol

12-18-2012, 12:35 PM

On all the anthrophoras, people mistake maghrebi/MENA for southern italians, southern italians for northern italians and real northern italians for bavarians, french or austrians :lol:

Ira di Dio

12-18-2012, 12:35 PM

Well, if Renzo Bossi is northern Italian...
But he isn't. Unfortunately.

And even if he was Rui Patricio is much more "exotic" than Renzo Bossi for that matter.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnrolvQUrb1qgwgkro2_250.jpg
I don't think I have ever seen a Northern Italian with his natural skin tone. Not even Inzaghi.

Rouxinol

12-18-2012, 12:45 PM

But he isn't. Unfortunately.

And even if he was Rui Patricio is much more "exotic" than Renzo Bossi for that matter.

Well, Renzo Bossi is much more "exotic" than Rui Patrício here... Looks like he could be Gaddaffi's son or any random Lybian.

I don't think I have ever seen a Northern Italian with his natural skin tone. Not even Inzaghi.

Gianni Morandi, from Emilia-Romagna?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_uBpPQ--g7ek/S8vIwQ9kHAI/AAAAAAAABlY/tpE6oboog18/s1600/capa.jpg

Peyrol

12-18-2012, 12:47 PM

Renzo Bossi is half sicilian, not ''lombard''.

...And Gianni Morandi ''dark skinned''? :lol:

http://sfondiwebfree.altervista.org/sfondi-cantanti/italiani/morandi1.JPG

http://cdn.cinetivu.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Gianni-Morandi.jpg

Rouxinol

12-18-2012, 12:49 PM

I don't think I have ever seen a Northern Italian with his natural skin tone. Not even Inzaghi.

More, Pier Silvio Berlusconi, a Lombard (his father Silvio also qualifies):

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mediaset+Night+TV+Programming+Presentation+HZa7ml3 GOYxl.jpg

It's useless to go on with this.

Rouxinol

12-18-2012, 12:50 PM

Renzo Bossi is half sicilian, not ''lombard''.

...And Gianni Morandi ''dark skinned''? :lol:

As "dark" as Nuno Gomes... At least according to Ira di Dio's definition.

Ira di Dio

12-18-2012, 12:51 PM

Well, Renzo Bossi is much more "exotic" than Rui Patrício here... Looks like he could be Gaddaffi's son or any random Lybian.
What can I say? It would be a good contest between hardcore wogs:
http://www.wakeupnews.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/renzo-bossi.jpg
http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/specialecalcio/lib/images/atleti/89367.jpg
What is obvious is that Renzo Bossi is more naturally depigmented though.

Gianni Morandi, from Emilia-Romagna?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_uBpPQ--g7ek/S8vIwQ9kHAI/AAAAAAAABlY/tpE6oboog18/s1600/capa.jpg
My word he looks terribly swarthy!

http://www.lanostratv.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/gianni-morandi-dice-no-a-the-voice.jpg

:picard2: (... someone needs a mirror for xmas :D)

Prince Carlo

12-18-2012, 12:53 PM

Pier Silvio Berlusconi and his wife Silvia Toffanin are the darkest North Italians I can think of. Nothing non european about them.

Rouxinol

12-18-2012, 12:54 PM

What can I say? It would be a good contest between hardcore wogs:
http://www.wakeupnews.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/renzo-bossi.jpg
http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/specialecalcio/lib/images/atleti/89367.jpg
What is obvious is that Renzo Bossi is more naturally depigmented though

No, they are about the same. And Rui Patrício has lighter eyes.

Peyrol

12-18-2012, 12:55 PM

More, Pier Silvio Berlusconi, a Lombard (his father Silvio also qualifies):

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mediaset+Night+TV+Programming+Presentation+HZa7ml3 GOYxl.jpg

It's useless to go on with this.

:picard1:

It's obviously suntanned...here almost everyone do lamp sunbathing.
It's funny how on anthrophoras, people think that suntanning=real dark skin.

Btw, those are better pictures of Piersilvi...and his sister Barbara (very exotic lookin...yes :lol:)

http://www.today.it/~media/zoom/17867612141490/piersilvio-berlusconi.jpg

http://gilioli.blogautore.espresso.repubblica.it/files/2009/09/piersilvio-berlusconi-300x246.jpg

http://files.gossip.it/protagonisti/barbara_berlusconi_black_box_cardi/images/barbara_berlusconi_1e0a.jpg

http://www.liberoquotidiano.it/resizer.jsp?img=UpkPfA5XLjjcB8kzPDNlxQApP9B2q7dlqk 56R65KYts%3D&w=470&h=-1&maximize=true

If Berlusconi's sons are ''dark skinned'', the 3/4 of Portugueses are mulattos.

Rouxinol

12-18-2012, 12:55 PM

Pier Silvio Berlusconi and his wife Silvia Toffanin are the darkest North Italians I can think of. Nothing non european about them.

Who said they were non-European? But they are dark... Darker than Nuno Gomes. Nothing non-European about him too.

Rouxinol

12-18-2012, 12:57 PM

:picard1:

It's obviously suntanned...here almost everyone do lamp sunbathing.
It's funny how on anthrophoras, people think that suntanning=real dark skin.

Btw, those are better pictures of Piersilvi...and his sister Barbara (very exotic lookin...yes :lol:)

According to you, all dark-skinned Italians are sun-tanned. The others are naturally dark-skinned... Oh well.

I will refrain from keeping feeding this or I will get spanked by the resident Italian gang led by Ira di Dio (alzo zero, banned at The Apricity and at Anthrocivitas).

Ira di Dio

12-18-2012, 12:58 PM

Darker than Nuno Gomes.
:D:D:D... :thumb001:

http://www.stefanoborgi.it/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/nuno-gomes.jpg

I will refrain from keeping feeding this or I will get spanked by the resident Italian gang led by Ira di Dio (alzo zero, banned at The Apricity and at Anthrocivitas).
I'm not alzo zero but you're right that I always provide you with a good spank. :)

Peyrol

12-18-2012, 12:59 PM

According to you, all dark-skinned Italians are sun-tanned. The others are naturally dark-skinned... Oh well.

I will refrain from keeping feeding this or I will get spanked by the resident Italian gang led by Ira di Dio (alzo zero, banned at The Apricity and at Anthrocivitas).

Apart Piersilvio who is a model and need (like all the italian male models) 2-3 lamp sumbathing weekly....

Btw, if Berlusconi's sons are dark skinned, then 3/4 of portugueses are mulattos.

Prince Carlo

12-18-2012, 01:00 PM

Who said they were non-European? But they are dark... Darker than Nuno Gomes. Nothing non-European about him too.

:picard1:

No they aren't. Neither of them is typical for his own country. And btw this whole discussion sounds stupid.

Rouxinol

12-18-2012, 01:00 PM

:D:D:D... :thumb001:

I still don't get why a banned user in the past, who obviously suffers of deep inferior complexes, is allowed here under another username. It seems that you get banned whatever the forum you go to.

Rouxinol

12-18-2012, 01:00 PM

:picard1:

No they aren't. Neither of them is typical for his own country. And btw this whole discussion sounds stupid.

Indeed. Say thank you to your "friend" Ira di Dio.

Peyrol

12-18-2012, 01:04 PM

Ira di Dio

12-18-2012, 01:04 PM

I still don't get why a banned user in the past, who obviously suffers of deep inferior complexes, is allowed here under another username. It seems that you get banned whatever the forum you go to.
Can someone please make a check of my IP address and then ban this annoying obsessed creepo?

Gaijin

12-18-2012, 01:08 PM

Pier Silvio Berlusconi and his wife Silvia Toffanin are the darkest North Italians I can think of. Nothing non european about them.

I could elaborate a list for you, of dark Northern Italians, if you think Berlusconi is the darkest you can get.
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Cesare+Prandelli+Bulgaria+v+Italy+FIFA+2014+OToxl9 9VpPXl.jpg
Cesare Prandelli.

Rouxinol

12-18-2012, 01:09 PM

The funny thing is that this stupid ''war'' started because someone said that Labrador looked ''berid''...

Labrador, you are (were?) one of the best posters on T.A., so i sincerely didn't understood why you (and your countrymen Visigoth/3-4 other nicknames) gone mad for the ''berid'' classification.

It started before that I think. I didn't even know that a war was being waged (and it seems that it comes from another anthro-forums, led by the very same users). It seems to have continued in my thread for some reason I am unaware of.

Can someone please make a check of my IP address and then ban this annoying obsessed creepo?

You should stop this.

Ira di Dio

12-18-2012, 01:10 PM

You should stop this.
LOL you decide when to start and when to stop? Who the hell do you think you are? :laugh:

Peyrol

12-18-2012, 01:15 PM

It started before that I think. I didn't even know that a war was being waged (and it seems that it comes from another anthro-forums, led by the very same users). It seems to have continued in my thread for some reason I am unaware of.

You should stop this.

Nope.
There was a fury (i don't know in other forum, i'm talking about T.A.) after your classification thread, and not specifically by you, but also by other iberian members (Visigoth and other ''iberianarenordids'' people).

So please, stop now...from both the involved ''parts''.

Peyrol

12-18-2012, 01:16 PM

Btw, this idiot discussion lasted too long.
Closed.

Resolve by PM your dissidences, don't make a public drama.

Damião de Góis

12-18-2012, 08:53 PM

Re-opened for the sake of those who can't be here as much.. at least for a little while.

Sure, Inzaghi would pass totally foreign to Portugal LOLOLOL:

... And that's one of the pictures where Nuno Gomes looks least "racially ambiguous". ;)

Yeah, Inzaghi is a strange face here. Don't know what's so strange about that ideia.

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Filippo+Inzaghi+300+Gol+Book+Launch+Party+mq-IuZeM-mal.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-P6jQnJCCSBA/TghJ6HyCPGI/AAAAAAAADaI/ds7IiecNeQw/s1600/nuno%2Bgomes.jpg

Looks quite different from Nuno Gomes...

Peyrol

12-18-2012, 08:56 PM

You re-opened the Pandora's box, Alex.

Visigoth

12-18-2012, 08:59 PM

He isn't IMO: I don't see him in Northern Italy.

http://cache.images.globalsportsmedia.com/news/soccer/2012/6/16/140045header.jpg

Actually I hardly see him in Central Italy too.

Yes, you can see him in Northern Italy.
Italian Actor, Fabio Troiano.
http://cdn2.stbm.it/girlpower/gallery/foto_gallery/gossip/fabio-troiano/fabio-troiano-milano.jpeg?-3600

Damião de Góis

12-18-2012, 09:01 PM

You re-opened the Pandora's box, Alex.

Sorry, but please understand that it's a little frustrating to get home and find topics closed, especially when people have addressed you.

I'll close it if this goes out of hand, or if you close it again i won't re-open.

Peyrol

12-18-2012, 09:04 PM

Yes, you can see him in Northern Italy.
Actor, Fabio Troiano.
http://cdn2.stbm.it/girlpower/gallery/foto_gallery/gossip/fabio-troiano/fabio-troiano-milano.jpeg?-3600

Yup, Troiano is worldwide know for be a true northern surname...even my dog know that Troiano is a neapolitan surname. :rolleyes:

http://www.gens.info/lib/cog/maps/cognomi-prov/T/TROIANO.gif

Btw, remove your stupid signature.
Ira di Dio never insulted other member in thread tags or deliberately ignored moderation warnings.

Rouxinol

12-18-2012, 09:14 PM

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Filippo+Inzaghi+300+Gol+Book+Launch+Party+mq-IuZeM-mal.jpg

Looks quite different from Nuno Gomes...

Indeed. In that (better quality) picture of him, Inzaghi looks fairly different from the one posted earlier today. Yeah, on this one he doesn't resemble one bit Nuno Gomes.

Visigoth

12-18-2012, 09:15 PM

Btw, remove your stupid signature.

No, I won't remove my signature.
It's mine, not yours. Make your own, if you'd like.

Ira di Dio never insulted other member in thread tags or deliberately ignored moderation warnings.

I don't want to get into technical fights. But...You know very well he did.

He was also the one who's been making those offensive tags I believe, I simply replied with the same coin.
The only difference between him and I, is that I'm not Italian nor do I have Italian Moderators to back me up, whereas he does.

So far, I've witnessed nothing but hostility coming from Italian members (Ira Di Allah and Joseph Capelli, to highlight).

Fui!

Damião de Góis

12-18-2012, 09:21 PM

Anyway, what i meant with Inzaghi was that if italian posters said there are portuguese faces that would be hard to see in North Italy, the opposite is also true like Inzaghi, Casiraghi, Baggio or others. Again i don't see what is strange about this notion.

Peyrol

12-18-2012, 09:21 PM

No, I won't remove my signature.
It's mine, not yours. Make your own, if you'd like.

I don't want to get into technical fights. But...You know very well he did.

He was also the one who's been making those tags, I simply replied with the same coin.
The only difference between him and I, is that I'm not Italian nor do I have Italians Moderators to back me up, whereas he does.

Fui.

No, the difference is that you are a recidive poster, probabily here on T.A. only for trolling us or other members/ethnicities (the same your ''portuguese nordicism'' seems more a joke/prank than a real personal view).

You are an insult and a shame for other portugueses members of this board, which are all polites and respectables.

Btw, wasn't Ira di Dio the writer of the tags...and he never wrote some stupid ones like ''Ira di Dio = Joseph Capelli = moron'' or something similar, as you did.

Now, remove your signature and stop your idiot war, or goodby again*

* and this isn't a problem for you, since you've other 2 accounts here...