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Treffie
07-29-2009, 11:43 AM
Devon was the cornerstone of one of Britain's most significant Celtic kingdoms (Dumnonia), and retains a significant heritage from those days. Devon's people are predominantly of Celtic stock, with the Celtic language (which also resulted in Cornish) being spoken well into the Dark Ages, and is retained today in place names, dialect, as well as in customs and culture.

This is not to say that the Saxons, who 'conquered' Devon in the eight and ninth centuries (and who militarily conquered Cornwall in the ninth and tenth centuries), or the Normans who did the same to the whole of England in the eleventh century, are without merit or contribution. However the point of this introduction is to promote that part of Devon's history which for some strange reason appears to have been repressed - that of Celtic Devon.

The Cornish Celtic name for Devon is Dewnans, [and this is becoming more acceptable to modern ears]. A possibly older name for Devon is Dyfneint (meaning 'deep valley dwellers'). [This survives from Dumnonia's few surviving records, and probably supplies the root form of Dewnans - Ed].

Devon was one of the last areas of what is now known as England to be conquered by the Anglo-Saxon invaders, and was not formally claimed by the Saxon Kingdom of Wessex until the early ninth century (AD 805 - only a couple of decades before Cornwall was 'conquered', although Cornwall retained some degree of independence thereafter). Even after this (as noted in Alfred the Great's will in AD 900), Devon's Celtic people were called Wealcynn (wealas being the Anglo-Saxon word for Celts, and literally translates as 'foreigner').

Perhaps it is surprising that this history of Celtic identity is not better known. How can this be so? A number of factors probably came into play. The Victorian era prized all things Teutonic because (for some reason) they equated it with civilised society. Even in the mid/late twentieth century schools teach a 'unified' English history with little focus on regional history. Devon's own Celtic history has been overlooked and neglected. This story is not unique to Devon. History, language and culture have been suppressed in many parts of the Celtic world (Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and Brittany - to name a few). In Devon's case its proximity to Cornwall, with its own rich Celtic ancestry, has probably also hindered recognition of Devon's own history.

The question of Devon's Celtic identity is not new. In 1870 Professor Thomas Huxley, President of both the Royal Society and of the Ethnological Society, and friend of Charles Darwin, stated that '(Devonians) are as little Anglo-Saxon as Northumbrians are Welsh' by which he meant that Devonians are genetically descended from the Brythonic Celts, rather than the Germanic tribes of the Angles or Saxons who give the term 'Anglo-Saxon' (and the term England) its name.

The 'pro-Teutonic' prejudices of the Victorian era were Huxley's target, and sadly his views were not universally accepted. The ramifications of this 'Victorian prejudice' continued well into the twentieth century, and distorted the real history. However the issue is now being revisited, and the truth is slowly emerging.

Recent genetic evidence (from the BBC 'Blood of the Vikings' series) has indicated that the Celtic peoples in South Western Britain not only survived, but that their gene pool is predominant in the current population.

Norwegian-based research indicates that Devon (and Cornwall) has a far greater proportion of black hair colour than other English counties, a tendency also seen in Ireland and Scotland. Perhaps this also provides evidence of a common Celtic background, and certainly supports the theory that the Tamar is no 'racial' boundary.

http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesBritain/BritishDevonIntro.htm

Jarl
07-29-2009, 12:06 PM
I have read that Bretons came from the Southwestern Brythonic dialects (which later evolved into Cornish). The pressure from the invading Anglo-Saxons pushed some of the locals out into the sea. They settled in Brittany and Galleacia. I wonder whether the tribes from Devon participated in this colonistation.

The split began after the Battle of Deorham in 577:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Deorham

...when the Saxons took Gloucester and Brythonic territory was cut in two.

You wrote about it in the Dumnonia thread:


It is also at this time that a wave of migration happened, this time by the Dumnonian Celts, into Brittany. The reasons for this migration are uncertain, as the Saxon encroachment was still a distant threat to Devon and Cornwall [but it may have been triggered by refugees from further east]. Nevertheless many people from Dumnonia settled in [Armorica, later known as] Brittany, naming regions after their homeland (Cornouaille [Cornwall] in the south west of Brittany, and Domnonee [Devon] in the north east of Brittany) and taking with them the Celtic language.

Strong links between Dumnonia and Brittany were established, and remain to the present day.

I didn't know Brittany had any "Cornish" toponyms. Do you happen to have some Cornish ancestry?

Treffie
07-29-2009, 12:31 PM
I have read that Bretons came from the Southwestern Brythonic dialects (which later evolved into Cornish). The pressure from the invading Anglo-Saxons pushed some of the locals out into the sea. They settled in Brittany and Galleacia. I wonder whether the tribes from Devon participated in this colonistation.

Yes, it's right, not 100% certain about the Galicia link, even though this map states it. If you've got any links, I'd be very interested.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Britonia6hcentury.png


I didn't know Brittany had any "Cornish" toponyms. Do you happen to have some Cornish ancestry?

Yes, since Breton is descended from Cornish, they are quite common.

As for ancestry, yes, I'm something like 12.5% Cornish. The link below gives information on the Cornish diaspora.

http://www.casa.ucl.ac.uk/surnames/papers/20_cornish_migration.pdf

Beorn
07-29-2009, 12:31 PM
Norwegian-based research indicates that Devon (and Cornwall) has a far greater proportion of black hair colour than other English counties

I find that hard to believe when every Devon man I've met has been blonde or brown haired.
I suppose it's from what part they come from.

Daco Celtic
01-08-2020, 11:35 PM
Devon is a cool place, enjoyed my visit

JamesBond007
01-08-2020, 11:47 PM
I find that hard to believe when every Devon man I've met has been blonde or brown haired.
I suppose it's from what part they come from.

Sometimes very dark brown hair can be mistaken for black hair

Dorian22
05-05-2022, 04:16 AM
Beautiful part of England. Will be back one day.