Haplogroup Q-M25 42.6% of Turkmen Iranian ( Mongoloid or Caucasoid?)

[ButlerKing]

I'm surprised by the genetic difference of Turkmen Turkmenistan and Turkmen Iranian. Wow the Iranians Turkmen who live mostly in Golestan have 42.6% of haplogroup Q-M25

Asia
Q-M25 has been detected in the Northeast of East Asia, in South Asia, and across Central Asia.[1][2][3] Though present at low frequencies, it may be one of the more widely distributed branches of Q-M242 in Asia.

http://i45.tinypic.com/wmwyt.jpg

West Asia

The frequency of Q-M25 varies greatly across West Asia. This is eccoed in its distribution in Iran where it is over 9 percent of the population in the north but only 2 to 3 percent of the population in the south.[4] An extreme peek is seen in the Turkmen of Golestan).[5] The frequency of Q-M25 drops to only about 1 percent of the population in Lebanon's Muslims and is absent from the non-Muslim population there.[6] However, its presence in the Marsh Arabs of Iraq hints that Q-M25's West Asian history extends beyond a single localized recent founder.[7]

http://i45.tinypic.com/1fgxhc.jpg

Europe
Q-M25 is present across modern Turkey[8] and in Eastern Europe.


http://i50.tinypic.com/mwxxyb.jpg

[ButlerKing]

I find Iranian Turkmen more Mongoloid than Turkmen Turkmenistan.


The most famous Iranian Turkmen is Khodadad Azizi who is a national Iranian football hero who brought Iran to the world cup in 1998
http://footbik.narod.ru/IGROKY/A/IZO/AZIZI_KHODADAD_jpg.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/137819/dsc_tyt.jpg
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/137830/ttorrkk.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4138/4819755175_7333d03ca4.jpg
http://www.oldcarpet.com/images/Turkmen-girl-rug-weaving-iran-1-250.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/4t3pr8.jpg

[Sky earth]

Yeah it's very surprising. I wonder myself why the Turkmens from Iran have so much Q and why they're genetically isolated from other populations in Iran at least when it comes to Haplogroups:mmmm:. Even the Altay people can reach only 32 % Q. I also wonder myself what the mtDNA from Turkmens in Iran will offer us

[Pecheneg]

I wonder myself why the Turkmens from Iran have so much Q

http://vaedhya.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/interpreting-new-iranian-y-chromosomal.html


Haplogroup Q presents with a very distorted picture. 42.6% of Turkmens belonging to Q1a2-M25 is not in agreement with Wells et al.'s The Eurasian Heartland: A continental perspective on Y-chromosome diversity, where Haplogroups J, N, R1a and R1b predominated, suggesting either an extensive Founder effect has taken place (i.e. regionalisation of certain branches from a common Oghuz Turk pool) or the Golestani Turkmen values have experienced a more generic form of genetic drift.
.

[ButlerKing]

http://vaedhya.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/interpreting-new-iranian-y-chromosomal.html

That is only a random blog comment. Yet you quoted it like it was some text from the article. The person is mentioning from a very old 2001 study, it has nothing to do with the mentioning of Turks whatsoever but rather Central Asians and waves of migrations.

The Eurasian Heartland: A continental perspective on Y-chromosome diversity

ABSTRACT

"The non-recombining portion of the human Y chromosome has proven to be a valuable tool for the study of population history. The maintenance of extended haplotypes characteristic of particular geographic regions, despite extensive admixture, allows complex demographic events to be deconstructed. In this study we report the frequencies of 23 Y-chromosome biallelic polymorphism haplotypes in 1,935 men from 49 Eurasian populations, with a particular focus on Central Asia. These haplotypes reveal traces of historical migrations, and provide an insight into the earliest patterns of settlement of anatomically modern humans on the Eurasian continent. Central Asia is revealed to be an important reservoir of genetic diversity, and the source of at least three major waves of migration leading into Europe, the Americas, and India. The genetic results are interpreted in the context of Eurasian linguistic patterns.

[Sky earth]

It's strange but based on what I've seen from Iranian Turkmens many can even pass as Mongols. The question is how the original Oghuz Turkmens looked like and how their Haplogroup distrubition or aDNA looked like. Turkmens from Turkmenistan seem to have significant South Asian admixture about 13% compared to Anatolian Turks who have not worth mentioning South Asian admixture. It seems to be that Turkmens have heavily mixed with Iranic peoples in Turkmenistan. I mean compare the aDNA of Tajiks and Turkmens. It looks like that both populations are genetically almost the same people who only speak different languages. The only difference is that Tajiks are genetically more European and South Asians than Turkmens but their Mongoloid admixture on average is the same. Either Turkmens are mainly "Turkiczied" Iranics or Tajiks are mainly "Iranized" Turkmens. A second option is that Turkmens and Tajiks have mixed so much in the past with each other that they're genetically not differently anymore lol:icon_yes:

Here for comparison between Tajiks and Turkmens
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadDUyeEtjNnBmY09EbnowN3M3UWRyN nc&authkey=COCa89AJ&hl=en_US&authkey=COCa89AJ#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadExjVnpKbHFEeGVZOEZPOXBxWnA2W nc#gid=0

[Charles Bronson]

Many factors indicate primary Hunnic origin of this haplogroup and its subclades.



Based on genetic genealogy and the historical and ethnographic data, the project participants are grouped into the following subgroups:



· Balkaria/Digora subcluster (Q-L712+ Q-L715+ Q-BZ660+ Q-L713-);

· L712* paragroup (Q-L712+ Q-L713-);

· Szekely (Szekler) subcluster (Q-L712+ Q-L715+ Q-L713+ Q-YP789+);

· Eurasian group (Q-L712+ Q-L715+ Q-L713+ Q-YP789+).



Balkaria/Digora subcluster



It brings together men from the North Caucasus region belonging to the Q-L712 cluster. Some of them derive their genealogical roots from the historical Balkarian/Digorian aristocracy associated with the dynasty of Badeliats and Basiats. According to the family legends, the ancestors of both dynasties, two real brothers (Badel and Basiat), arrived sometime in the Caucasus as foreigners and thanks to their unique attributes, abilities and skills, inter alia knowledge of firearms, were able to subdue the native Digorian people and take authority over them. At the time of Badel and Basiat arrival the indigenous people did not know firearms and gunpowder and fought with bows. In accordance with Digorian tradition, the brothers had come from Hungary or from a town called Majar located in state of the Golden Horde (some versions of the old family legend say about Hungarians and even Huns). Historians have been involved in an ongoing debate concerning Majar or Hungarian origin of Badeliats and Basiats relating to the aural similarity of the terms "Majar" and "Magyar".


According to the latest state of research, the above referred events took place in the late 15th or early 16th century.

Compiled on the basis of:

В. А. Кузнецов, Археологические данные о происхождении дигорских Баделят. Edited: Б. Х. Бгажноков, В. А. Фоменко, Археологияиэтнология Северного Кавказа. Нальчик 2012. pdf


The most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of the Balkaria/Digora subcluster lived approx. 500 years ago. For various reasons, this time can be combined with the collapse of the state of the Golden Horde in 1502 and coincides with the arrival of Badel and Basiat to Digoria, based on archaeological and historical research.


Székely (Szekler) subcluster

The next sub-group consists of men from Székely community who belong to the Q-L712 haplogroup and its subclades. The research of Székely genetic genealogy deals with FTDNA Hungarian Bukovina project. Székelys is a Hungarian-speaking ethnic group, living in eastern part of Transylvania and manifests unique cultural characteristics, distinguishing it from other European nations. So far the origin of Székelys has remained unknown. Characteristic for Székely people are inter alia specific type of runes, called Old Hungarian Alphabet (Székely rovásírás) used before the year 1000 AD, unique pillar tombs called Kopjafa and characteristic Székely gates. The origin of the Székely people and their uniqueness remain a mystery even though several hypotheses have been put forward on the subject. The Székelys in their ancient legends claim that they are descendants of the Huns who, after the defeat of the mighty Hunnic king Attila, remained in Europe, changed the name from Huns to Székely and found a secluded place to hide from retribution from the previously conquered nations. Their forefathers descend in a straight line from the mythological prince Csaba, who would have benn the son of Attila the Hun. The old Hunnic motifs and themes are still present in the Székely folklore. This fact is especially intriguing in the context of genetic genealogy because more and more evidence leads to the hypothesis of Hunnic origin, or very close relation to the Hunnic origin of the haplogroup Q-M25 and its subclades. Michael Maglio writes: “If I had to pose a theory, I would say that Attila is Q1a2 [Q-M25], part of the royal class of Huns living in Hungary. (...) The combined evidence of DNA, geography and history leads to the conclusion that at the end of the Hunnic Empire, the core East Asian Huns assimilated into the eastern European cultures. They left behind a strong genetic footprint in the same territory that they historically inhabited” (full article by M. Maglio).

Due to the aforementioned facts the Székely legends about the Hunnic origin, questioned by some researchers, may invite a slightly different reading.

The most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of the Székely (Szekler) subcluster lived most likely about 1700 years ago. For various reasons, this time can be combined with the Hunnic invasion of Europe in 370 AD. High level of differentiation within the Székely (Szekler) subcluster, distant time to the most recent common ancestor and a relatively large concentration of haplogroup within one ethnic group may suggest a kind of center of this rare ancient and mysterious haplotype in Europe.

Eurasian group



Members of this subgroup, conventionally called “Eurasian”, derived their ancestors from different regions of European and Asiatic continents (Ireland, Poland, Russia, Uzbekistan).

These project participants are not ethnically related with the Balkaria/Digora and Székely (Szekler) subcluster. However most of these men are similar to Székely Y-DNA profile.



See also: Niezgoda Y-DNA Project

Ancient Y-DNA samples have matches with living people



In the ancient cemetery of the Hunnic-Sarmatian culture in Altai Mountains the archaeologists have discovered human remains, from which you could obtain genetic material (aDNA). At least three samples belong to the haplogroup Q-M25 and very likely to its subclades Q-L712, Q-L715 and Q-L713 (which have been for first time discovered in the genetic profile of the kit 180029 - member of our Q-L712 Focus Group) and have matches with living people who belong to the project Q-L712 Focus Group.


Sample RISE493, archaeological site Sabinka 2, Karasuk Culture, Bronze Age, 1500-1400 years BC (*L715)
Sample RISE600, archaeological site Verh-Uimon, Iron Age – without dating (*L713).
Sample RISE601, archaeological site Verh-Uimon, Iron Age – without dating (*L715).

This may indicate the Hunnic provenance of above mentioned haplogroups and close links between the project participant's ancestors with the ancient Hunnic-Sarmatian culture.


https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ydna-q-l-712/about/background

[Afshar]

Many factors indicate primary Hunnic origin of this haplogroup and its subclades.



Based on genetic genealogy and the historical and ethnographic data, the project participants are grouped into the following subgroups:



· Balkaria/Digora subcluster (Q-L712+ Q-L715+ Q-BZ660+ Q-L713-);

· L712* paragroup (Q-L712+ Q-L713-);

· Szekely (Szekler) subcluster (Q-L712+ Q-L715+ Q-L713+ Q-YP789+);

· Eurasian group (Q-L712+ Q-L715+ Q-L713+ Q-YP789+).



Balkaria/Digora subcluster



It brings together men from the North Caucasus region belonging to the Q-L712 cluster. Some of them derive their genealogical roots from the historical Balkarian/Digorian aristocracy associated with the dynasty of Badeliats and Basiats. According to the family legends, the ancestors of both dynasties, two real brothers (Badel and Basiat), arrived sometime in the Caucasus as foreigners and thanks to their unique attributes, abilities and skills, inter alia knowledge of firearms, were able to subdue the native Digorian people and take authority over them. At the time of Badel and Basiat arrival the indigenous people did not know firearms and gunpowder and fought with bows. In accordance with Digorian tradition, the brothers had come from Hungary or from a town called Majar located in state of the Golden Horde (some versions of the old family legend say about Hungarians and even Huns). Historians have been involved in an ongoing debate concerning Majar or Hungarian origin of Badeliats and Basiats relating to the aural similarity of the terms "Majar" and "Magyar".


According to the latest state of research, the above referred events took place in the late 15th or early 16th century.

Compiled on the basis of:

В. А. Кузнецов, Археологические данные о происхождении дигорских Баделят. Edited: Б. Х. Бгажноков, В. А. Фоменко, Археологияиэтнология Северного Кавказа. Нальчик 2012. pdf


The most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of the Balkaria/Digora subcluster lived approx. 500 years ago. For various reasons, this time can be combined with the collapse of the state of the Golden Horde in 1502 and coincides with the arrival of Badel and Basiat to Digoria, based on archaeological and historical research.


Székely (Szekler) subcluster

The next sub-group consists of men from Székely community who belong to the Q-L712 haplogroup and its subclades. The research of Székely genetic genealogy deals with FTDNA Hungarian Bukovina project. Székelys is a Hungarian-speaking ethnic group, living in eastern part of Transylvania and manifests unique cultural characteristics, distinguishing it from other European nations. So far the origin of Székelys has remained unknown. Characteristic for Székely people are inter alia specific type of runes, called Old Hungarian Alphabet (Székely rovásírás) used before the year 1000 AD, unique pillar tombs called Kopjafa and characteristic Székely gates. The origin of the Székely people and their uniqueness remain a mystery even though several hypotheses have been put forward on the subject. The Székelys in their ancient legends claim that they are descendants of the Huns who, after the defeat of the mighty Hunnic king Attila, remained in Europe, changed the name from Huns to Székely and found a secluded place to hide from retribution from the previously conquered nations. Their forefathers descend in a straight line from the mythological prince Csaba, who would have benn the son of Attila the Hun. The old Hunnic motifs and themes are still present in the Székely folklore. This fact is especially intriguing in the context of genetic genealogy because more and more evidence leads to the hypothesis of Hunnic origin, or very close relation to the Hunnic origin of the haplogroup Q-M25 and its subclades. Michael Maglio writes: “If I had to pose a theory, I would say that Attila is Q1a2 [Q-M25], part of the royal class of Huns living in Hungary. (...) The combined evidence of DNA, geography and history leads to the conclusion that at the end of the Hunnic Empire, the core East Asian Huns assimilated into the eastern European cultures. They left behind a strong genetic footprint in the same territory that they historically inhabited” (full article by M. Maglio).

Due to the aforementioned facts the Székely legends about the Hunnic origin, questioned by some researchers, may invite a slightly different reading.

The most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of the Székely (Szekler) subcluster lived most likely about 1700 years ago. For various reasons, this time can be combined with the Hunnic invasion of Europe in 370 AD. High level of differentiation within the Székely (Szekler) subcluster, distant time to the most recent common ancestor and a relatively large concentration of haplogroup within one ethnic group may suggest a kind of center of this rare ancient and mysterious haplotype in Europe.

Eurasian group



Members of this subgroup, conventionally called “Eurasian”, derived their ancestors from different regions of European and Asiatic continents (Ireland, Poland, Russia, Uzbekistan).

These project participants are not ethnically related with the Balkaria/Digora and Székely (Szekler) subcluster. However most of these men are similar to Székely Y-DNA profile.



See also: Niezgoda Y-DNA Project

Ancient Y-DNA samples have matches with living people



In the ancient cemetery of the Hunnic-Sarmatian culture in Altai Mountains the archaeologists have discovered human remains, from which you could obtain genetic material (aDNA). At least three samples belong to the haplogroup Q-M25 and very likely to its subclades Q-L712, Q-L715 and Q-L713 (which have been for first time discovered in the genetic profile of the kit 180029 - member of our Q-L712 Focus Group) and have matches with living people who belong to the project Q-L712 Focus Group.


Sample RISE493, archaeological site Sabinka 2, Karasuk Culture, Bronze Age, 1500-1400 years BC (*L715)
Sample RISE600, archaeological site Verh-Uimon, Iron Age – without dating (*L713).
Sample RISE601, archaeological site Verh-Uimon, Iron Age – without dating (*L715).

This may indicate the Hunnic provenance of above mentioned haplogroups and close links between the project participant's ancestors with the ancient Hunnic-Sarmatian culture.


https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ydna-q-l-712/about/background
What is your subgroup, and where did you test?

[Charles Bronson]

What is your subgroup, and where did you test?


Are you Danishmed?

[Afshar]

Are you Danishmed?
No

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

its mongoloid. The xiongnu also come from mongolia. The haplogroup was definitely spread by original xiongnu mongoloids and mongols

[Proto-Shaman]

Haplogroup Q is mainly Mongoloid with Europoid input, because of common ancestor with R's from P-M45. And when Indo-Gayropeans think they are related with native Americans, then its beauce they carry purely Turkic DNA.