Bosniak traditional clothing

[Sultan Suleiman]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2490/4222268030_a2d679ed53.jpg

http://www.woophy.com/photos/365/71/large/1038652-zivinice-bosnia-hercegovina-portrait-traditional-dress.jpg

http://www.woophy.com/photos/365/71/large/1013687-zivinice-bosnia-hercegovina-photography-traditional-dress.jpg

http://www.irmin.com/folkfestival/slikefolklora/kuddukati.jpg

http://www.bosnjaci-smz.hr/images/slika_nosnja_velika.jpg

http://www.bosnjaci-smz.hr/images/nur_akt_nosnja_01.jpg

http://www.zadarskilist.hr/media/base/03Bajram%20u%20Zadru.JPG

http://ss1.spletnik.si/4_4/000/000/1c2/ad0/2860_1274710264_233_2860.jpg

http://www.gusinje-plav.com/2010pictures/slikeseki/19.jpg

http://www.chicagoraja.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Bosanska-nosnja.gif

[dado]

are u sure they are all bosniak

[Don Arb]

the turkish hat ruins everything

[Sultan Suleiman]

are u sure they are all bosniak

Ovaj iz Dinama sa kockicama je naš, slika na nekoj fešti Bošnjaka u Hrvatskoj :thumb001:

[Sultan Suleiman]

the turkish hat ruins everything

http://poskok.info/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/stjepan_mesic_fes.jpg

[Sultan Suleiman]

http://www.bosnjaci-smz.hr/uploads/bkud_nur/2011./110827Lipovljani/Lipovljani_17.jpg

http://ss1.spletnik.si/4_4/000/000/1c2/ad6/2929_1274710281_240_2929.jpg

http://ss1.spletnik.si/4_4/000/000/1ce/09f/2441_1278254773_8_2441.jpg

http://www.narodnenosnje.co.rs/nosnja/boskrajina01.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/40773_134469083264804_100001051384586_198814_44809 03_n.jpg

http://www.visitbosnia.org/bih/images/stories/o_bih/narodne_nosnje/narodna_nosnja12.jpg

http://i86.servimg.com/u/f86/13/66/69/99/nosnje10.jpg

http://www.fotke.hr/controls/imgSizer2.aspx?img=103261&w=444&h=0

http://www.fotke.hr/controls/imgSizer2.aspx?img=106709&w=444&h=0

http://www.fotke.hr/controls/imgSizer2.aspx?img=100958&w=444&h=0

http://www.fotke.hr/controls/imgSizer2.aspx?img=97020&w=444&h=0

Traditional hair braids :)

http://www.visitmycountry.net/bosnia_herzegovina/en/images/stories/narodne_nosnje/photos/narodna_nosnja14.jpg

[Su]

Beautiful.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Harem clothes we are all interested in because of purely educational reasons (Allahu Akbar!!!)


http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2009/364/4/9/Harem_Stock_33_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2009/364/1/d/Harem_Stock_25_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2009/364/8/b/Harem_Stock_38_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2009/331/9/d/Harem_Stock_15_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2009/331/c/0/Harem_Stock_11_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2009/331/c/0/Harem_Stock_17_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2009/364/2/6/Harem_Stock_41_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2009/364/1/2/Harem_Stock_20_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2009/331/4/4/Harem_Stock_8_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2009/331/b/9/Harem_Stock_14_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://th01.deviantart.net/fs8/PRE/i/2005/305/7/7/Harem_Girl_I_by_Dove_Stock.jpg

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2009/364/4/3/Harem_Stock_40_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2009/331/1/1/Harem_Stock_19_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2009/331/d/4/Harem_Stock_18_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs20/i/2007/229/5/c/Harem_2_by_the_little_skylark.jpg

[Hayalet]

Does the history of fez predate the 19th century in Bosnia?

[Onur]

Does the history of fez predate the 19th century in Bosnia?
No it cant be. Already the fez fashion came to Turkey from Morocco around that time. All the muslims including Bosnians and Turks was wearing turban or a simple cap before fez became fashionable hat. Tough not only muslims, christians of Ottoman empire wore fez too.

[dado]

i dont know about fes....but this cap The beret
is very popular among elder bosnian muslims
http://www.bosnjaci.net/foto2/500_Savjet_reisu-l-ulem1.jpg

[Su]

More pictures please :D

EDITED: I am demanding more pics :wink

[Gospodine]

i dont know about fes....but this cap The beret
is very popular among elder bosnian muslims

Any kind of headgear is popular amongst the elderly in the whole of Former Yugoslavia.

Don't what it is but as soon as you turn 60, you sleep, shower and live in a hat, shawl, or some other kind of covering.

[dado]

Any kind of headgear is popular amongst the elderly in the whole of Former Yugoslavia.

Don't what it is but as soon as you turn 60, you sleep, shower and live in a hat, shawl, or some other kind of covering.

those old farts just want to stay on this world for as long as possible,they don't want to die before they milk our pension system for at least 15 years

[Hurrem sultana]

http://www.most.ba/053/zimolo_2.jpg

http://www.most.ba/053/zimolo_1.jpg

[Hurrem sultana]

Sarajevska begovska nosnja

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/545360_10150906538367737_1735630797_n.jpg

http://www.medzlis-zepce.info/otvorenje/6.jpg

http://www.pravda.rs/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/18sandzak03.jpg

[Hurrem sultana]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/40773_134469083264804_100001051384586_198814_44809 03_n.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/KUD_VRELO_IBRA.jpg

http://www.krupljani.ba/images/2012/06/ajvatovica3.jpg

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8850/39929950097311326741879.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/39929950097311326741879.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Hurrem sultana]

http://www.sofiaecho.com/shimg/zx500y290_772124.jpg

http://media-cache-ec6.pinterest.com/upload/31243791136568809_yL5D9426_b.jpg

http://media-cache-ec5.pinterest.com/upload/31243791136256334_bGztb5mc_f.jpg

[Hurrem sultana]

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2321/dimijehg3.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/537201_403377266404544_302856806_n.jpg

Sandzak bosniaks:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/430822_10151132194617890_1807984531_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/155953_10151088871732890_964763228_n.png

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/403395_10151070855457890_1534219337_n.jpg

[Hurrem sultana]

http://sandzakpress.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/bkz-sehara-bosnjacke-kulture-22-12-121.jpg

women still wear this,older women in villages:

http://www.bihor-petnica.com/Gusinje-nosnja.jpg

[Hurrem sultana]

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/537772_560790037282119_1982706053_n.jpg

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/405974_560790663948723_975804516_n.jpg

[Hurrem sultana]

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/303660_560770417284081_1185065457_n.jpg

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/405989_560770497284073_569587963_n.jpg

traditional bosniak room

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/553327_560770673950722_1399706223_n.jpg

[Hurrem sultana]

A bosniak and a croat woman

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/68631_549836595026422_1123578762_n.jpg

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/555206_553186681358080_1618668965_n.jpg

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/181165_553186954691386_795411904_n.jpg

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/64944_555610801115668_2076313082_n.jpg

[Hoca]

Salutations to my Bosnians brothers.

[TheMagnificent]

Very nice! :)

[Vojnik]

http://www.gusinje-plav.com/2010pictures/slikeseki/19.jpg

Those look like traditional Aromanian Vlach costumes.

Vlach Shepard.

http://i45.tinypic.com/iol0qq.png

[Hurrem sultana]

one more proof serbs are actually vlachs in Bosnia :D thats how serbs dressed :D

[Methmatician]

one more proof serbs are actually vlachs in Bosnia :D thats how serbs dressed :D

Looks more Macedonian or Greek than Serb IMO.

[CrystalMaiden]

Harem clothes we are all interested in because of purely educational reasons (Allahu Akbar!!!)



http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2009/364/1/d/Harem_Stock_25_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2009/364/8/b/Harem_Stock_38_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2009/331/9/d/Harem_Stock_15_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2009/331/c/0/Harem_Stock_11_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2009/331/c/0/Harem_Stock_17_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2009/364/2/6/Harem_Stock_41_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2009/364/1/2/Harem_Stock_20_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2009/331/4/4/Harem_Stock_8_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2009/331/b/9/Harem_Stock_14_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://th01.deviantart.net/fs8/PRE/i/2005/305/7/7/Harem_Girl_I_by_Dove_Stock.jpg

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2009/364/4/3/Harem_Stock_40_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2009/331/1/1/Harem_Stock_19_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2009/331/d/4/Harem_Stock_18_by_Mardermolch.jpg

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs20/i/2007/229/5/c/Harem_2_by_the_little_skylark.jpg

Predvidljiv si :rolleyes:

[Sisak]

Looks more Macedonian or Greek than Serb IMO.

Serbs dont have skirt:confused:?

[Onur]

Serbs dont have skirt:confused:?
I also believe that the Serbs with skirts (men) was probably Vlachs.

Horse riding men never wore skirts in medieval era, simply because skirts are not practical for horse riding. Skirts was usually the dress for highlander man [because horses doesn't fit to the mountains] or for shepherds.

[Lena]

I also believe that the Serbs with skirts (men) was probably Vlachs.

Horse riding men never wore skirts in medieval era, simply because skirts are not practical for horse riding. Skirts was usually the dress for highlander man [because horses doesn't fit to the mountains] or for shepherds.

Actually, Serbs from Vojvodina, Northern part of Backa and central and North part of Banat were wearing white skirts as part of their folk attire. Besides, I seriously doubt any of the pics posted has anything in common with medieval times.

Cheers!

[Onur]

Actually, Serbs from Vojvodina, Northern part of Backa and central and North part of Banat were wearing white skirts as part of their folk attire.
Banat/Voyvodina? What you said is pretty much confirms their Vlach origin.


Besides, I seriously doubt any of the pics posted has anything in common with medieval times.
These are Ottoman era villager clothing style (Balkans and Anatolia) and probably all the Balkan folks started to wear cloths such as these since 15th century.

Turkish villagers already wearing these cloths even earlier than 15th century. The thing is the horse riding men never wore skirts but always pants.

[Hurrem sultana]

Some real pictures:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-g3a7HTKjgpk/UMt7182h9hI/AAAAAAAAAEs/oMZuhXHu7mk/s1600/380370_381349305284798_555933551_n.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zojWP95ziWs/T74uujGFdDI/AAAAAAAAADU/WDiwxN3L_wI/s640/SSSSSSSS.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-tg_U9eUz9m0/T5V8FpqkrGI/AAAAAAAAAC0/vBafocaSHxc/s640/33333333.png

[Lena]

Banat/Voyvodina? What you said is pretty much confirms their Vlach origin.
Oh, pls :D Banat, Backa, Vojvodina-Panonian plain, you know Backa, predominantly Hungarians and Serbs, North almost exclusively 2 ethnic groups mentioned aside of some Romani ppl (those could be Vlachs to you lol)


These are Ottoman era villager clothing style (Balkans and Anatolia) and probably all the Balkan folks started to wear cloths such as these since 15th century.

Turkish villagers already wearing these cloths even earlier than 15th century. The thing is the horse riding men never wore skirts but always pants.
I know, everything comes from Ottomans, even fustanela skirt style in Balkans. :coffee: Don't know how our ancestors lived before you came to teach them just about everything.

[Onur]

I know, everything comes from Ottomans, even fustanela skirt style in Balkans. :coffee: Don't know how our ancestors lived before you came to teach them just about everything.
I don't know, you tell me about how they were before 1360s.

what i know is, we ruled in there since 1360s and we remained in there `till 1870s or 1912. This was a veeerrrryyyy long time and obviously most of the cultural elements you have today comes from Ottoman era, including your folklore clothing. You can deny this in your mind but denying wont change the facts.

[Twistedmind]

I don't know, you tell me about how they were before 1360s.

what i know is, we ruled in there since 1360s and we remained in there `till 1870s or 1912. This was a veeerrrryyyy long time and obviously most of the cultural elements you have today comes from Ottoman era, including your folklore clothing. You can deny this in your mind but denying wont change the facts.

Onur you really tend to be idiot. Turks captured Banat between 1521 and 1541 and lost it 1687. I hope it proves you what ignorant you are.
1360, Ottomans were nowhere arround Bosnia or Serbia. Serbia fell under Ottomans 1459, and got liberated 1804. Bosnia 1463-1878. Like allways, go and by calculator. :picard1:

Man, what is with your constant need to make idiotic statements.

[Hurrem sultana]

Mymy posted ottoman influenced costumes from her part of Serbia i remember.She is from Nis

According to what she said it was very common even with dimije

[Lena]

Mymy posted ottoman influenced costumes from her part of Serbia i remember.She is from Nis

According to what she said it was very common even with dimije

Ma kakav Nis i odakle ti to? Verovatno nikada nije ni bila u Nisu... She's from Jagodina.

[Hurrem sultana]

Oh well then its Jagodina,i dont remember clearly ,all i know is she posted serbian dresses that were ottoman influenced,,she is serb not bosniak so it cant be propaganda :D

[Lena]

Oh well then its Jagodina,i dont remember clearly ,all i know is she posted serbian dresses that were ottoman influenced,,she is serb not bosniak so it cant be propaganda :D

She had her agenda and was posting according to that, but for the sake of knowledge Jagodina is Central Serbia, Pomoravlje

Narodna Nošnja, Jagodina (http://www.etnoforma.autentik.net/galerija_slika.php)

[Hurrem sultana]

what could he agenda be?

[Lena]

It's irrelevant to this thread, I just wanted to clarify things about Jagodina and what you said.

[Hurrem sultana]

Oh for Gods sake i think i have been here for a longer time and know mymy,and what kind of girl she was

[Twistedmind]

Mymy posted ottoman influenced costumes from her part of Serbia i remember.She is from Nis

According to what she said it was very common even with dimije

In southern Serbia and Kosovo, women of rich merchants wore Ottoman dresses, but that is all. People in villages had costumes with classic Slavic motives. :picard1:

[Onur]

In southern Serbia and Kosovo, women of rich merchants wore Ottoman dresses, but that is all. People in villages had costumes with classic Slavic motives. :picard1:
It was the exact opposite of what you said.

Especially after 18th century, women of rich merchants wore western style clothing while the people in villages always wore Turkish style clothing. The clothing which gets shown in this thread.

Btw what are slavic motifs? I don't know such thing! What you call as "slavic motifs" was also the motifs of Turkish villagers even before Ottoman era. These motifs was also on our ancient rugs and you can even see same motifs in the ancient Eurasian rugs.

[Twistedmind]

It was the exact opposite of what you said.
:rotfl2



Especially after 18th century, women of rich merchants wore western style clothing while the people in villages always wore Turkish style clothing. The clothing which gets shown in this thread.

Not. Remeber, genius I live in Bosnia, :picard1:Stop spaming every thread
with your ignorance and retarded complexions towards Balkans. Nobody is guilty because you look like one of us. :picard1: No, western style dresses in XVIII century was this:
http://dalje.com/slike/slike_3/r2/g2007/m09/x135151709336774552.jpg

BTW dont you ever get tired of your pathetic ignorance. :picard1:



Btw what are slavic motifs? I don't know such thing! What you call as "slavic motifs" was also the motifs of Turkish villagers even before Ottoman era. These motifs was also on our ancient rugs and you can even see same motifs in the ancient Eurasian rugs.

Simialrity is striking, if you are blind or ignorant troll :rotfl

Serbian folk costumes:

http://narodni.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/juznobacka-narodna-no%C5%A1nja.jpg

http://www.kud-zavicaj.ch/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=937&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=75&lang=sr

Anatolian folk costumes:

http://www.readliterature.com/folklor10.jpg

[Illancha]

Balkanite men's clothing just screams Ottoman to me.

Was it always like that or is it a remnant of the Ottoman period?

[Twistedmind]

Balkanite men's clothing just screams Ottoman to me.

Not. What is posted in this tread, for sure, since it was worn by Muslim upper clase. But rest was quite different.
Also, there is no Balkanite this or that. Balkan is acctually quite diverse.

PS for Pan Ottomanist expert (Onur):

Look carrefully on embroidery on this dress (It is Ottoman :D)

http://www.caesarscoins.com/bv517-01.jpg
Such embroidery patterns are characteristic for Baltic region. ;)
I would not enter in discussion who influenced whom.

[Hurrem sultana]

Balkanite men's clothing just screams Ottoman to me.

Was it always like that or is it a remnant of the Ottoman period?

this is not balkan only bosniak

[Vulcho]

Bosniak national dress looks very oriental even compared to the other Balkan Muslims like Pomaks and Albanians.

[Onur]

Balkanite men's clothing just screams Ottoman to me.

Was it always like that or is it a remnant of the Ottoman period?
It`s from Ottoman era and the folklore clothing of all the Balkan states are pretty much same or quite similar. The names of the different pieces of their clothing are also Turkish words. For example, entire Greek folklore clothing words are Turkish like tepelik, başlik, fistan, şalvar, kemer, çarik, yelek, cepken, kuşak, kaftan, potur...

Balkanites are just denying that like they deny pretty much everything from Ottoman era.

Like this guy, speaking like Bulgarian christian folk dress supposedly different from muslim ones;

Bosniak national dress looks very oriental even compared to the other Balkan Muslims like Pomaks and Albanians.
Ofc this is not true. All the folklore dresses in Balkans and Anatolia was pretty much same, regardless of christians or muslims. There was only minor differences.

[Hurrem sultana]

In Bosnia serbs had their own clothes style,only serbian women in towns dressed in ottoman style,,ottoman style was back then paris and western to them :D

[Vulcho]

Like this guy, speaking like Bulgarian christian folk dress supposedly different from muslim ones

I have the impression that christians and muslims in the Rodopes have different dresses. But it could be just regional differences, I'm not sure.
This is a pomak dress from the Rodopes.
http://www.partyhouse-bg.com/userfiles/phpGE7jEkpomashka-nosiq.gif

And this is the normal Rodopian dress:
http://www.partyhouse-bg.com/userfiles/phpHBLynsnar.jpg

Probably an outsider can't see a big difference, but the Pomak dress has a very unusual color scheme, and can't be mistaken for christian.

Anyway, my point was not that Muslims have different dresses, but that Bosniaks have more oriental influence than any other region in the Balkans.
Compare:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2321/dimijehg3.jpg

[Hurrem sultana]

our clothes look more prettier and more classy :D

http://www.blogger.ba/photos/189186.jpg

http://www.blogger.ba/photos/189189.jpg

http://www.blogger.ba/photos/189191.jpg

[TheMagnificent]

I have the impression that christians and muslims in the Rodopes have different dresses. But it could be just regional differences, I'm not sure.
This is a pomak dress from the Rodopes.
http://www.partyhouse-bg.com/userfiles/phpGE7jEkpomashka-nosiq.gif

And this is the normal Rodopian dress:
http://www.partyhouse-bg.com/userfiles/phpHBLynsnar.jpg

Probably an outsider can't see a big difference, but the Pomak dress has a very unusual color scheme, and can't be mistaken for christian.

Anyway, my point was not that Muslims have different dresses, but that Bosniaks have more oriental influence than any other region in the Balkans.
Compare:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2321/dimijehg3.jpg

The first one is similar to traditionel Yörük/Türkmen costumes...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3z6mfhkLTJU/TWsNeE8M6XI/AAAAAAAAB6Y/KOtDt5MDU5I/s400/turkish-traditional-wedding-dress.jpg

http://turkishculture.org/images/image_all/Clothing/Local%20Costumes/folkloric53.jpg

[TheMagnificent]

http://www.blogger.ba/photos/189191.jpg

In Bosnia women wear also fez? :D

[Hurrem sultana]

Just like yoruk women wear turban :D

it was popular in the early 1900s

http://personal.inet.fi/cool/blt/nosnja1.jpg

[Onur]

The first one is similar to traditionel Yörük/Türkmen costumes...
The second one too. Look at the accessories of Bulgarian christian women. Her belt, headdress with coins (tepelik) and her necklace with coins again.

I am waiting Bulgarians to write the names of these accessories in their language. I bet 9 out of 10 words would be Turkish. I know Greek clothing names, it`s fully Turkish.

[TheMagnificent]

Just like yoruk women wear turban :D

It's not a turban, but a bridal veil. :)

[Hurrem sultana]

It's not a turban, but a bridal veil. :)

the thing under is ,female turban just like we have female fez

http://turkishculture.org/images/image_all/Clothing/Local%20Costumes/folkloric53.jpg

[Vulcho]

The second one too. Look at the accessories of Bulgarian christian women. Her belt, headdress with coins (tepelik) and her necklace with coins again.

Oops, it turned out that both were Pomak dresses. My bad, damn :D

[Onur]

Oops, it turned out that both were Pomak dresses. My bad, damn :D
guess why you confused them :picard1:

You confused it because they are similar. So you were wrong by saying that the christian and muslim Bulgarians had different dresses.

Do you wanna play more guessing game? If i post pictures of Turkish and Bulgarian folk dresses together, can you differentiate those? You really think you can do that?

[Archduke]

Do you wanna play more guessing game? If i post pictures of Turkish and Bulgarian folk dresses together, can you differentiate those? You really think you can do that?

Let's guess 'em. :coffee:

[Methmatician]

our clothes look more prettier and more classy :D


These costumes look a little Spanish to me. And it would be better if the women wore a dress. And if there was actually something Slavic about them (besides the people under the clothes).

[Vulcho]

guess why you confused them :picard1:

Because I'm not an expert on traditional costumes?
Anyway, I repeat, this is not the point I was trying to make. My point was: Bosniak costumes look more Asian/Ottoman/oriental, than anything you can see in Bulgaria.

By the way, it's funny how Turks pretend to look down on Balkanites/Bulgarians, and then try to claim there's no difference between us.

[Mraz]

Because I'm not an expert on traditional costumes?
Anyway, I repeat, this is not the point I was trying to make. My point was: Bosniak costumes look more Asian/Ottoman/oriental, than anything you can see in Bulgaria.

By the way, it's funny how Turks pretend to look down on Balkanites/Bulgarians, and then try to claim there's no difference between us.

That's troo, Bulgarian costums look far more Slavic.
And IMO dimije sux. :(

[Hurrem sultana]

That's troo, Bulgarian costums look far more Slavic.
And IMO dimije sux. :(

pomaks have dimiije too,just google it :D so do albanians

the ones old women wear today suck,the ones young girls used to wear are cool

[Mraz]

pomaks have dimiije too,just google it :D so do albanians

the ones old women wear today suck,the ones young girls used to wear are cool

I mean all those colours it's too flashy you know crimson dimije are just wtf..
otherwise our clothes are awesome and better looking than our neighbours which look primitive and not refined, but its just a question of taste. between wtd albanians have to do with us :confused:

[Hurrem sultana]

I mean all those colours it's too flashy you know crimson dimije are just wtf..
otherwise our clothes are awesome and better looking than our neighbours which look old, but its just a question of taste. between wtd albanians have to do with us :confused:

He said our clothes are only oriental,so i mentioned them,they are balkan thats what they have to do with us

[Mraz]

He said our clothes are only oriental,so i mentioned them,they are balkan thats what they have to do with us

i think they are just a mix, but they look good, i would dress traditionaly everyday if i could :D

http://starerazglednice.blogger.ba/arhiva/2008/12/23/1968113

http://www.blogger.ba/photos/179162.jpg

http://www.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bihor-petnica.com/Rozaje-Zenska-bosnjacka-nosnja-Al.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bihor-petnica.com/Odbor-Rozaje.html&h=581&w=400&sz=16&tbnid=MBjwUvzzs0yO9M:&tbnh=93&tbnw=64&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbosnjacka%2Bnosnja%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo %3Du&zoom=1&q=bosnjacka+nosnja&usg=__GqpaPJH0ERoSKLCqoTTmHPpdMIU=&docid=L6FXUSEc6ZixdM&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=aOENUbyMMLHM0AX524HYCw&ved=0CDEQ9QEwAQ&dur=424

http://www.bosnjaci.net/foto/Bosanska_nosnja_fildzani.jpg

[Hurrem sultana]

you would look great and manly in this:

http://www.bosnafolk.com/sehara/kudovi/slika_nosnja_velika.jpg

:D

[Hurrem sultana]

but this is how grandmas dress,not the beautiful dimije from the past :( i would start wearing it if more people would want to :D
my grandma used to dress like this:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0CCYLzOHZ60NZbB1iJvRJay3wig1Re 116MFhFyDfFMWHDA3zt

[Mraz]

you would look great and manly in this:

http://www.bosnafolk.com/sehara/kudovi/slika_nosnja_velika.jpg

:D

i prefer this guys outfit, it looks more sober, with the other ones pple here would think i'm a pimp or something..don't want to have problems with the black comunity.


http://www.blogger.ba/photos/189191.jpg

[Methmatician]

I mean all those colours it's too flashy you know crimson dimije are just wtf..

You're right. They look ridiculous, like MC Hammer:

http://www.cybergorillas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Mc-Hammer70808.jpg


otherwise our clothes are awesome and better looking than our neighbours which look primitive and not refined, but its just a question of taste. between wtd albanians have to do with us :confused:

http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1334/32/1334329164853.jpg

Our neighbours folk clothing is much better, especially Croatian folk clothing from Bosnia and Dalmatia.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/ivano_photo/web2org-w.jpg
http://www.hercegovina.info/img/repository/2011/10/web_image/hrvatske-narodne-nosnje-u-bosni-i-hercegovini__c77.jpg

[Mraz]

You're right. They look ridiculous, like MC Hammer:

http://www.cybergorillas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Mc-Hammer70808.jpg



http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1334/32/1334329164853.jpg

Our neighbours folk clothing is much better, especially Croatian folk clothing from Bosnia and Dalmatia.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/ivano_photo/web2org-w.jpg
http://www.hercegovina.info/img/repository/2011/10/web_image/hrvatske-narodne-nosnje-u-bosni-i-hercegovini__c77.jpg

That's what I say, primitive not refined it looks very simple and common. Bosniaks clothing have more a soul.

[Hurrem sultana]

That's what I say, primitive not refined it looks very simple and common. Bosniaks clothing have more a soul.


I agree,their women look like babe,,,our clothes cant be compared to theirs,,,we are too classy :D

[Methmatician]

That's what I say, primitive not refined it looks very simple and common. Bosniaks clothing have more a soul.

It's not soul, it's just a rip-off. Nothing creative. If you asked a Bosniak what is the meaning and motifs of the folk clothing of various regions it they will not know, or they'll tell you something which has nothing to do with Bosniaks (like the Dukati, which has it's origins in Asia minor).

[Mraz]

It's not soul, it's just a rip-off. Nothing creative. If you asked a Bosniak what is the meaning and motifs of the folk clothing of various regions it they will not know, or they'll tell you something which has nothing to do with Bosniaks (like the Dukati, which has it's origins in Asia minor).

of course that your average Bosniak don't care about the meaning and motifs, he just know its how his father, grandfathers dressed like that that's it.. that's how a tradition works people look at the future and somethimes the foreigner has good stuff to offer.

[Methmatician]

of course that your average Bosniak don't care about the meaning and motifs, he just know its how his father, grandfathers dressed like that that's it.. that's how a tradition works people look at the future and somethimes the foreigner has good stuff to offer.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28834157.jpg

They lost their tradition when they decided to take another people's culture and claim it as their own, while disgracing their ancestors by thinking a foreign culture is better than their own. If only Bosniaks had more self-respect and pride :(

[Hurrem sultana]

tell me one nation that has kept clothing style from the 14th century!

stick to australia and fikret babo :D

[Mraz]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28834157.jpg

They lost their tradition when they decided to take another people's culture and claim it as their own, while disgracing their ancestors by thinking a foreign culture is better than their own. If only Bosniaks had more self-respect and pride :(

lol so you lost your culture because you dress in jeans and eat chemical food?
:rolleyes:
we were 400 years under Ottoman empire which was a big player on the map, we evolved, our clothes evolved..only our neighbours kept in their backwardness which is reflected by their behavior.

[Methmatician]

tell me one nation that has kept clothing style from the 14th century!

I don't care about 14th century. Imagine if Bosniaks everywhere started to wear the kimono and pass on Japanese myths to their children and give their children Japanese names. Older Bosniaks would be pissed, because they'd claim Bosniaks are ashamed of their culture by doing that. Well that's exactly what their ancestors did when the Turks came. They threw away the culture they had built for over 1000 years in exchange for the culture of the occupiers. Congratulations LunaRose, we (Bosniaks) have the longest case of Stockholm syndrome in history.


http://www.ski-epic.com/gifs/g007_citizen_kane_slow_clap.gif


stick to australia and fikret babo :D

As long as you're all the way up there in Sweden, I'll be happy to stay all the way down here in Australia.

[Methmatician]

lol so you lost your culture because you dress in jeans and eat chemical food?

I don't live in Bosnia, I'm not under occupation. I don't mix Australian slang into my Bosnian. There is no comparison here.


we were 400 years under Ottoman empire which was a big player on the map, we evolved, our clothes evolved..only our neighbours kept in their backwardness which is reflected by their behavior.

We did not evolve. Serbs and Croats evolved. They kept their traditions and added onto it. A better word for our situation would be 'assimilated'. We 'assimilated' into Turkish culture. Hell, we didn't even fight it when we were listed as 'Turks', we just stood by it. In no way did we evolve. If we evolved there would be remnants of our pre-Ottoman culture, but there isn't so there was no evolution.

[Hurrem sultana]

Ignorisite ovog medjeda,bas je medjed :D

[Methmatician]

Ignorisite ovog medjeda,bas je medjed :D

Since you're uber Bosniak you should be able to understand this :rolleyes:

Cehalet saadettir

[Mraz]

I don't live in Bosnia, I'm not under occupation. I don't mix Australian slang into my Bosnian. There is no comparison here.



We did not evolve. Serbs and Croats evolved. They kept their traditions and added onto it. A better word for our situation would be 'assimilated'. We 'assimilated' into Turkish culture. Hell, we didn't even fight it when we were listed as 'Turks', we just stood by it. In no way did we evolve. If we evolved there would be remnants of our pre-Ottoman culture, but there isn't so there was no evolution.


that's because you look with modern twins, but back then your identity was your religion our culture was second, and still we keep to our religion.
our people is based on faith from Bogomilism to Islam that's what is really important.

[Methmatician]

but back then your identity was your religion our culture was second, and still we keep to our religion.

And there's the problem.


our people is based on faith from Bogomilism to Islam that's what is really important.

Religion should not be the most important thing. Anyone can stop being religious, and what happens when Bosniaks become bi-religious or even tri-religious? That's where culture comes in to connect us because culture will always be there, religion won't. That's the problem with Islam, it tries to Arabify everywhere it goes.

[Mraz]

And there's the problem.



Religion should not be the most important thing. Anyone can stop being religious, and what happens when Bosniaks become bi-religious or even tri-religious? That's where culture comes in to connect us because culture will always be there, religion won't. That's the problem with Islam, it tries to Arabify everywhere it goes.

well too bad it is, being religious or not there is Islam around each Bosniak.

I guess u mad witht things like this :laugh:

TGb4qkEFDHY

[Methmatician]

I guess u mad witht things like this :laugh:


Yes, yes I do.

[Mraz]

Yes, yes I do.

hardcore muslims are also mad with this celebration :coffee:

[Hurrem sultana]

well too bad it is, being religious or not there is Islam around each Bosniak.

I guess u mad witht things like this :laugh:

TGb4qkEFDHY

Interesting video,and i love the music!


for non bosniaks,Ajvatovica is a very old tradition of gathering that occurs every year ,,,it is originally bogomil but with islamization ajvatovica too got islamic

Strict muslims are against it,but not even communists could stop this old tradition :D

[Mraz]

Interesting video,and i love the music!


for non bosniaks,Ajvatovica is a very old tradition of gathering that occurs every year ,,,it is originally bogomil but with islamization ajvatovica too got islamic

Strict muslims are against it,but not even communists could stop this old tradition :D

Are you sure it was allowed under the commies? :confused:
cuz i doubt that Tito would allow anything that hasn't his face as sponsor.

[Hurrem sultana]

Are you sure it was allowed under the commies? :confused:
cuz i doubt that Tito would allow anything that hasn't his face as sponsor.

Officially it was not allowed but people gathered still

[Methmatician]

it is originally bogomil but with islamization ajvatovica too got islamic

How is it Bogomil? According to the legend, the guy (Ajvaz Dedo) prayed to Allah for 40 days to split some rock. And when it did, he saw it as a miracle.

[Hurrem sultana]

How is it Bogomil? According to the legend, the guy (Ajvaz Dedo) prayed to Allah for 40 days to split some rock. And when it did, he saw it as a miracle.

How did christmas become christian? Ajvatovica got islamic:picard1:,Ajvaz dedo is originally a bogomil dedo(which is what bogomils called their priests..they had no priests but "dedo",stari)

People later on made up a story that would fit with islam,,but even imams there know he was a bogomil dedo,and there are even books about it:picard1:

The place where they pray has been holy for bogomils,before islam ever had a foot in Bosnia

[Sultan Suleiman]

Yes, yes I do.

That my friend is an example why no Bosniak will consider you one of his own. :thumb001:

[Sultan Suleiman]

How is it Bogomil? According to the legend, the guy (Ajvaz Dedo) prayed to Allah for 40 days to split some rock. And when it did, he saw it as a miracle.



How did most of missionary work take place my little dingoo friend?

You turn few local superstitions and rituals and coat them in religion you want to spread.

[Methmatician]

How did most of missionary work take place my little dingoo friend?

You turn few local superstitions and rituals and coat them in religion you want to spread.

In Christianity, yes. In Islam it's more like 'take it or leave it'.

[TheMagnificent]

To my knowledge, Islam doesn't force one to give up its national culture or identity, as long as it doesn't contradict the basic Islamic teachings (Tawhid, prohibition of alcohol, etc.), so I think it's good and enriching to preserve your cultural heritage, even if it predates Islam. But for some people it seems to be hard to find a balance in this and some even reject any cultural expression, especially something followers of the Salafiyyah movement suffer from.

[Hurrem sultana]

To my knowledge, Islam doesn't force one to give up its national culture or identity, as long as it doesn't contradict the basic Islamic teachings (Tawhid, prohibition of alcohol, etc.), so I think it's good and enriching to preserve your cultural heritage, even if it predates Islam. But for some people it seems to be hard to find a balance in this and some even reject any cultural expression, especially something followers of the Salafiyyah movement suffer from.

Well yeah we have wahabis that would love to ban Ajvatovica,too bad for them most of us are not wahabis:D

[TheMagnificent]

Well yeah we have wahabis that would love to ban Ajvatovica,too bad for them most of us are not wahabis:D

Indeed; thank God. :D

[Hurrem sultana]

Here is where one of them wrote "Sirk"(shirk) over a poster that announced Ajvatovica:rolleyes::picard1:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_d2cNKXgFypY/TBO4YRgegaI/AAAAAAAAAdg/Fyz6VWJRi2E/s1600/ajvatovica+sirk.jpg

[Onur]

To my knowledge, Islam doesn't force one to give up its national culture or identity, as long as it doesn't contradict the basic Islamic teachings (Tawhid, prohibition of alcohol, etc.)
The Ottoman Turkish islamic doctrine was much more relaxed than the classical islamic doctrines.

The consumption of alcohol, hashish and opium was never banned throughout Ottoman territories [maybe except 2-3 or few more years during the whole 600+ years]. There was also brothels and meyhane in all over the place. These things are not compatible with the classical islamic way of life but that was the case in Ottoman empire.

Also most of the sharia laws never implemented in Ottoman empire either. At least not in the sense we know today from the Arabic world. For example, no woman stoned to death during Ottoman era.

Also, christian and jewish communities had their own social groups and laws. The so-called islamic doctrines never been imposed to them at all. If that would be the case, then they wouldn't even allowed to consume wine in their churches.

[Azalea]

tell me one nation that has kept clothing style from the 14th century!

stick to australia and fikret babo :D

This. I really don't get what the fuss is about. Half of the things you took from us, we took from other nations. The salvar for example is Iranic in origin. (so Indo-European, not Turkic, thus closer to Slavic. Hope that comforts you, Medvjed?).

[Methmatician]

This. I really don't get what the fuss is about. Half of the things you took from us, we took from other nations. The salvar for example is Iranic in origin. (so Indo-European, not Turkic, thus closer to Slavic. Hope that comforts you, Medvjed?).

The clothing isn't a big issue for me. I was just using it as an example of how Bosniaks are probably the only Europeans who traded their culture for another.

[Sultan Suleiman]

The clothing isn't a big issue for me. I was just using it as an example of how Bosniaks are probably the only Europeans who traded their culture for another.


Define "traded in"?

[Sultan Suleiman]

In Christianity, yes. In Islam it's more like 'take it or leave it'.

If Islam was based on that principle we wouldn't have Hadiths or Sunnah now, would we?


TBH, I wish it was :thumb001:

[Gospodine]

To my knowledge, Islam doesn't force one to give up its national culture or identity, as long as it doesn't contradict the basic Islamic teachings (Tawhid, prohibition of alcohol, etc.)

Then I'm afraid rakija is an integral part of Bosnian identity and we shall never surrender it.

Also, Luna has had to give up her beloved miniskirts; she's suffering from withdrawal symptoms.

[Rastko]

Luna,one question.

It's off-topic.

You have to choose,for one night stand, between me (obvious Croat nationalist) and ugly Muslim like Pjanić.

Your choice ?

[Onur]

The clothing isn't a big issue for me. I was just using it as an example of how Bosniaks are probably the only Europeans who traded their culture for another.
All the historical knowledge indicates that if Bosnians wouldn't trade their culture with islam in 15th century, then they were about to trade their lives and eventually their own existence for nothing.

[dado]

@australopitecus

and you know something about bosnian identity...

bosnian identity ...:laugh2: it doesnt exist at all for your information

and the reason why it doesnt...maybe because of assholes like you who r pushing it to hard

[Gospodine]

http://i.qkme.me/357762.jpg

[TheMagnificent]

Then I'm afraid rakija is an integral part of Bosnian identity and we shall never surrender it.

Also, Luna has had to give up her beloved miniskirts; she's suffering from withdrawal symptoms.

I was talking about what could be an objection against the preservation of certain cultural elements from the point of view of the Islamic teachings. I'm aware of it that Muslims don't always follow religious prescriptions accurately. No value judgment.

[dado]

http://m.UploadEdit.com/b009/1359919017272.jpg

:picard1:

[TheMagnificent]

Nice wallpaper. :D

[Onur]

lol dado, even i never had a wallpaper like yours. I am a bit ashamed after seeing yours :D

[dado]

:D...unfortunately i couldnt find google theme with ottoman bayrak

[Mraz]

:D...unfortunately i couldnt find google theme with ottoman bayrak

Take this one instead..Green is our color :P http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1215/617428210_8db7a0215b.jpg

[Hurrem sultana]

Also, Luna has had to give up her beloved miniskirts; she's suffering from withdrawal symptoms.


Last time i had miniskirt was year 2010 :D

[Hurrem sultana]

Luna,one question.

It's off-topic.

You have to choose,for one night stand, between me (obvious Croat nationalist) and ugly Muslim like Pjanić.

Your choice ?

hahahaahha Miraelem Pjanic? he is not ugly ,i find him handsome,,,i remember my brother thought i was crazy because he thought just like you

But i would choose non

[Gospodine]

Last time i had miniskirt was year 2010 :D

You could be naked under all that just like Mary for all we know.

[Hurrem sultana]

You could be naked under all that just like Mary for all we know.

we are all naked under clothes arent we?:picard1:

[Gospodine]

we are all naked under clothes arent we?:picard1:

Muslim women usually wear something under a jilbab/robe though don't they? Like a salwar or something.

[Bosnjakinja]

There are regional differences in Bosnian/Bosniak folklore. The most stereotypical costumes/songs are these from Old Sarajevo

CTh4tmwxphY

tW8cCKb2JPI

Songs and costumes from Cazinska Krajina

qYgUtptCcVY

Opan ganga style :D Not very pleasant to the ear, but very interesting and authentically Bosnian. No foreign influences.

I7rR9SlDLlE

[Bosnjakinja]

How do you post youtube videos? I see the YT icone but can't figure out which part of the url to copy into it

[Mraz]

How do you post youtube videos? I see the YT icone but can't figure out which part of the url to copy into it



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTh4tmwxphY

Put this between the Youtube tag ;)

[Bosnjakinja]

Thanks

[Hurrem sultana]

zwKb4s5R-Uc

[Bosnjakinja]

Bosniak folk dances from Banja Luka

0QkNS_lz5mQ

[Bosnjakinja]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/384674_397246700341447_812445855_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/407337_284657254933726_172274901_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/155518_175723489124099_798935_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/72085_175723592457422_5968393_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/29605_176453372498772_427747260_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/74267_176453302498779_931152174_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/217660_10200299825318822_1552318139_n.jpg

[Geni]

Many Bosnians look Albanians ...I never thought ..:confused:

[Hurrem sultana]

Many Bosnians look Albanians ...I never thought ..:confused:

No way?:)

[Methmatician]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/155518_175723489124099_798935_n.jpg


These are Bosniak?

[Geni]

no...never thought that Bosnians and Albanians can resemble so much ..:confused:

[Bosnjakinja]

These are Bosniak?

Yes, from the village of Vrnograc in Cazinska Krajina.

[Bosnjakinja]

^^Here is the "dance" that goes with it:

qYgUtptCcVY

The singing begins at approximately 1:00

[Hurrem sultana]

no...never thought that Bosnians and Albanians can resemble so much ..:confused:

Well its not like you are on an other continent,Balkan is all mixed

[Methmatician]

Yes, from the village of Vrnograc in Cazinska Krajina.

Now that you mention Vrnograc, it looks familiar.

[Hurrem sultana]

Bosniaks of Velika Kladusa(this is KUD Vrnograc :))(your traitors medvjed :p)

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/739812_412258495516775_1819734418_o.jpg

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/45300_10151276325545996_1281007100_n.jpg

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/75228_503465329688150_1305853692_n.jpg


http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/603881_503465279688155_150549918_n.jpg


http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/399215_503464979688185_1730673958_n.jpg

[Hurrem sultana]

More pictures from Velika Kladusa :)

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/297898_167714953304465_4871271_n.jpg

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/294052_167715129971114_3005230_n.jpg

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/309322_167715793304381_7822176_n.jpg

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/301763_167716089971018_6261832_n.jpg

[Hurrem sultana]

26851

[Hurrem sultana]

Hajde duso da asikujemo, da asikujemo.
-Kako cemo kad neumijemo, kad neumijemo.
Ja cu tebe nauciti duso, nauciti duso.
-Kako ces me nauciti duso, nauciti duso.
Sjed' predame pa namiguj na me, namiguj na me.
-A ja cu se nasmijat na te, nasmijat na te. :D hihi :$


http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/555394_321968014586927_727858950_n.png

[CrystalMaiden]

Jesu ovo Babini? :lol:

[Hurrem sultana]

Jesu ovo Babini? :lol:


Da :D

[Hurrem sultana]

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6848/42258643151933692404611.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7676/73485643148056692792315.jpg

[Mraz]

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6848/42258643151933692404611.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7676/73485643148056692792315.jpg

Beaten husbands...The sad reality of Bosniaks :(

[Gorštak]

Where I was when this Su was active, if that's her on avatar lol.


http://www.zaslike.com/files/ycrj0mosf0fwf2s7jnex.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/kvt1vonaaz1ieivktn9i.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/7kgk63tj7l3yh0za88o.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/gm0v95vbxgpk06iyhd8f.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/hrwv4kqqj62cm4v3rn1w.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/nc4fn80lxqq7zj02p8by.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/m4yc3vrpk438rrrr7bo.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/m0x7rhf5shhp2agwew2.jpg

[Gorštak]

http://www.zaslike.com/files/knqw5ufmrdkr8dda7.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/tc0nts3aptunixji8ety.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/srfu71bn54lofgc4o74r.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/2110mxrssx6eo22n9ste.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/eacwjayxie7pg4ate6mw.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/6jrok44ddfkgx6r9i4zt.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/3zwbin8kdczzqyieper3.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/p8p7of2wl5uywg7p5e7.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/5dsezq1a8d9vosditz6.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/62n6bz5rdmic8jhqbf4f.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/vhb94vkclmaq7x8vlesq.jpg

[Methmatician]

http://www.zaslike.com/files/p8p7of2wl5uywg7p5e7.jpg

That's Albanian.

[Gorštak]

http://oi43.tinypic.com/66w6km.jpg


Some Bosniaks(not all) who during history lived near Albanians dressed similar or same like them
http://www.zaslike.com/files/askhkdz2flauy49pdma.jpg

[Skerdilaid]

http://oi43.tinypic.com/66w6km.jpg


Some Bosniaks(not all) who during history lived near Albanians dressed similar or same like them
http://www.zaslike.com/files/askhkdz2flauy49pdma.jpg

They are from Sanxhak and were Albanians but assimilated into Bosnians. We had connections with up until during WW2 and they also spoke Albanian, but during the Yugo days they assimilated totally.

[Gorštak]

They are from Sanxhak and were Albanians but assimilated into Bosnians. We had connections with up until during WW2 and they also spoke Albanian, but during the Yugo days they assimilated totally.

I'm not going into how much your claims are historially correct, I will only say that today they are Bosniaks as much as it can be, I remember even one article when some of them explained that and said how that clothing anyway can be associated with many nations
http://dijaspora-bk.de/v2/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=387:-za-izmisljotin..

[Skerdilaid]

I'm not going into how much your claims are historially correct, I will only say that today they are Bosniaks as much as it can be, I remember even one article when some of them explained that and said how that clothing anyway can be associated with many nations
http://dijaspora-bk.de/v2/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=387:-za-izmisljotin..

Well for starters those guys are wearing a distinctly Kelmendi/Rugova clothing, now they are Bosniaks but just 50 years ago they were not!

[La Misse]

Some Bosniaks(not all) who during history lived near Albanians dressed similar or same like them
http://www.zaslike.com/files/askhkdz2flauy49pdma.jpg
Albanians!

[Gorštak]

Albanians!

That isn't what they are saying:D

[La Misse]

That isn't what they are saying:D

''Some Bosniaks(not all) '' I don't see any Bosniain here, they all look Alboz
why is this photo in this thread?

[Gorštak]

''Some Bosniaks(not all) '' I don't see any Bosniain here, they all look Alboz
why is this photo in this thread?

Because they are Bosniaks and that part of our nation dressed like that during history and consider it as one type od their traditional clothing.
Problem?

[Stefan_Dusan]

Because they are Bosniaks and that part of our nation dressed like that during history and consider it as one type od their traditional clothing.
Problem?

They are not Bosniaks, they are Muslim Serbs who come from old Serbia. Far from Bosnia and have been in Bosnian hands for 100 years compared to 700 years for Serbian.

[Gorštak]

They are not Bosniaks, they are Muslim Serbs who come from old Serbia. Far from Bosnia and have been in Bosnian hands for 100 years compared to 700 years for Serbian.

Aren't we anyway all Muslim Serbs in the end, Stefan:zzz

[Stefan_Dusan]

Aren't we anyway all Muslim Serbs in the end, Stefan:zzz

I'm willing to entertain that people from old Bosna are some South Slavic people who had no identity of Serb and Croat. But Sandzhak is Rashka, every Serb has origins there. If you compare my blood, I will have more relatives with them than you.

[Gorštak]

I'm willing to entertain that people from old Bosna are some South Slavic people who had no identity of Serb and Croat. But Sandzhak is Rashka, every Serb has origins there. If you compare my blood, I will have more relatives with them than you.

Albanians say they're Albanians, you say they're Serbs, I will say just what they are saying, they' re Bosniaks.
Deal with it.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Albanians say they're Albanians, you say they're Serbs, I will say just what they are saying, they' re Bosniaks.
Deal with it.

It's about 50/50 actually. Half claim Serbian, the other say Bosniak as some political expression. But in end, they want to remain part of Serbia and be Serbian citizens, they share blood with other Serbians not people from Sarajevo or Mostar. The Bosnian Serbians and Croats are more serious about their Serbianess or Croatness than Serbians from Sandzhak are about being Bosniak.

[Gorštak]

It's about 50/50 actually. Half claim Serbian, the other say Bosniak as some political expression. But in end, they want to remain part of Serbia and be Serbian citizens, they share blood with other Serbians not people from Sarajevo or Mostar. The Bosnian Serbians and Croats are more serious about their Serbianess or Croatness than Serbians from Sandzhak are about being Bosniak.

You forget one thing Stefan, Serbs nationalism is established and extraordinarily strong for a long, long time, if Serbs were smarter(of course, you will blame others), Serbs and Serbia had potential to become respectable and powerful state, what are you not today.
In the other hand, we Bosniaks not so long ago didn't even had a right to declare as special ethnic group, and we were under Serbs rule and brainwashed for too long, but we menaged to keep enough own national pride to not together with you attack Croatia.
Anyway, my point was that Bosniaks nationalism is rising, unders Serbs rule it didn't had enough space to devolp, for 50 years Bosniaks from Serbia will be bigger nationalists than Serbs are, do you know that they finally get permit to have teaching in school on Bosnian language?

[Stefan_Dusan]

You forget one thing Stefan, Serbs nationalism is established and extraordinarily strong for a long, long time, if Serbs were smarter(of course, you will blame others), Serbs and Serbia had potential to become respectable and powerful state, what are you not today.

Serbian nationalism is all around being underdog and resisting. If we become too powerful in Balkan, we lose our Serbian identity.


Anyway, my point was that Bosniaks nationalism is rising, unders Serbs rule it didn't had enough space to devolp, for 50 years Bosniaks from Serbia will be bigger nationalists than Serbs are, do you know that they finally get permit to have teaching in school on Bosnian language?

First I don't know what this has to do with Serbs from Sandzhak. Rashka was where original Serbs come from. It was part of Serbian principalities,kingdoms, and then empire for 600-700 years. As Serbia begins to slowly fall apart in face of Ottoman aggression, you Bosnians take the Sandzhak and other areas of Serbia. However, before long Ottomans conquer you and Sandzhak becomes part of Ottoman run Bosnia. This is only reason why Muslims are high here, because other areas of Serbia were under constant rebellion and who got it first was local Muslims. But Bosnia was stable and calm, and attracted Muslims from everywhere else in Ottoman.

Anyways calling Bosnian separate language is like calling Austrian separate language from German.

[La Misse]

Because they are Bosniaks and that part of our nation dressed like that during history and consider it as one type od their traditional clothing.
Problem?

Why could Bosnians dress Gheg Albanian clothes?

[Gorštak]

Why could Bosnians dress Gheg Albanian clothes?

Why are you not using normal font?

[La Misse]

Why are you not using normal font?

Answer to my question...

[Mraz]

Answer to my question...

Because those guys are Albos maybe?

[Skerdilaid]

Swan: Have you ever heard of Ali Pash Guci and Jakup Ferri?


These were Albo to the bone during our wars against Ottomans and Montenegro, now days both families declare to be Bosnian's. Ask them which tribe they hail from and that should solve your issues!

[Gorštak]

Swan: Have you ever heard of Ali Pash Guci and Jakup Ferri?


These were Albo to the bone during our wars against Ottomans and Montenegro, now days both families declare to be Bosnian's. Ask them which tribe they hail from and that should solve your issues!

Look dude, I'm Bosniak from totally different area, I don't have anything neither with Albanians neither with your clothing.
Those people are part of my nation and they are very proud on their Bosniakhood and that's what matters for me, if you see some problem there then ask them and see what will they say to you.
As for clothing, they will probably say to you that it's made of various elements that other nations also used, but if Albanians who use culjah are not same nation as Greeks who use culjah, why then Bosniaks who use culjah are Albanians?
As for me I'm tired of this shit who is Albanian, who is Bosniak and who is Serb.

[Stefan_Dusan]

I personally can't tell you the origin of their outfits, all I know is you can find Serbians as far as Croatian Krajina wearing similar clothes. Did Albanians borrow it from Serbs or opposite is something I can't answer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7Mtye5Rs24

Serbian village with some Albanians. All dressed traditional, tell them apart.

[Skerdilaid]

Look dude, I'm Bosniak from totally different area, I don't have anything neither with Albanians neither with your clothing.
Those people are part of my nation and they are very proud on their Bosniakhood and that's what matters for me, if you see some problem there then ask them and see what will they say to you.
As for clothing, they will probably say to you that it's made of various elements that other nations also used, but if Albanians who use culjah are not same nation as Greeks who use culjah, why then Bosniaks who use culjah are Albanians?
As for me I'm tired of this shit who is Albanian, who is Bosniak and who is Serb.
It's not just a matter of clothing but the names I mentioned were monumental in our wars to create our Albanian state, yet today their families declare to be Bosnians. I just wanted you to know that, and also Albanian clothing differs from tribe to tribe and region to region. The traditional clothing is also almost like an identity to us, read what Coon wrote regarding this. As I mentioned earlier those guys were wearing a Kelmendi clothing...................


I am more tired than you are, but lets call it as it is!

[Sisak]

Catholic Croats from Slavonia have more beautiful veils and more decorated than Bosniaks.

[Skerdilaid]

This is what I mean, when we see those clothes we imedeately know that these people are from Drenica:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Azem_Bejta.jpg
These people are from Rrafsh i Dukagjinit:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2370/2070478785_803844eeb7_z.jpg
Check out this Yugoslav movie and look at the Rugova clothing. This type of clothing is not worn anywhere else except Rugova/Kelmendi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SXMdQOzwO0
http://prishtinapress.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Rugova-foklorike.jpg

[Gorštak]

Ah, Sota and Azem Galica, long live Bosniaks heroes who saved Albanians!

[Skerdilaid]

Ah, Sota and Azem Galica, long live Bosniaks heroes who saved Albanians!

lol

[Skerdilaid]

@Stefan you will like Vuk za prokljeta:D

[Gorštak]

lol

Ok, it was trolling, you can keep Azem who consider Chetnik Kosta Pecanac as his brother:laugh:
But if I want to troll more, I would say that judging by your post we at least stole from you bright part of your nation, descendants of your heroes, I can see why you're upset:icon_lol:

[Skerdilaid]

Ok, it was trolling, you can keep Azem who consider Chetnik Kosta Pecanac as his brother:laugh:
But if I want to troll more, I would say that judging by your post we at least stole from you bright part of your nation, descendants of your heroes, I can see why you're upset:icon_lol:

Hahah don't forget though that Azem shot his first Serb when he was 12;)

[Hurrem sultana]

those clothes are just ottoman,so all people could use itl,,just like the fes,nothing albanian about them

[La Misse]

those clothes are just ottoman,so all people could use itl,,just like the fes,nothing albanian about them

These clothes are only Albanian, not Ottoman or Bosnian
http://asamblejabiblike.com/index/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/isa-boletini.jpg

[Gorštak]

Back to topic
http://www.zaslike.com/files/y0r7o9nmx4ctc0yp9w.jpg

[iNird]

http://oi43.tinypic.com/66w6km.jpg


Some Bosniaks(not all) who during history lived near Albanians dressed similar or same like them
http://www.zaslike.com/files/askhkdz2flauy49pdma.jpg

If they are Bosnians than I am Nigerian.

Those are typical Dinarid Highlanders the kind that makes Kastrioti's heart pump!

[Gorštak]

If they are Bosnians than I am Nigerian.

Those are typical Dinarid Highlanders the kind that makes Kastrioti's heart pump!

You're too late, we said everything what can be said about it before:p

[iNird]

You're too late, we said everything what can be said about it before:p

It appears so. I'm glad we came to a mutual conclusion.

[Gorštak]

It appears so. I'm glad we came to a mutual conclusion.

Yes, whatever they're real Bosniaks or assimilated bright part of Albanian nation, good for us today whey they are anyway Bosniaks by their own words;)

[cally]

If they are Bosnians than I am Nigerian.

Those are typical Dinarid Highlanders the kind that makes Kastrioti's heart pump!
I make his heart pump :(

[Skerdilaid]

I make his heart pump :(

If this makes you feel any better, you sure as hell make mine pump:)

[cally]

If this makes you feel any better, you sure as hell make mine pump:)

how cute :) :)

[Skerdilaid]

how cute :) :)

Yes, forget him, I am the real Highlander:)

[iNird]

Skerdi trying to get a wife.

:p

[cally]

Yes, forget him, I am the real Highlander:)

haaaa I don't think Kastrioti would agree ;)

[Skerdilaid]

Skerdi trying to get a wife.

:p

Jelly much Sheherli?:p

[cally]

Anyway we are going OFF-TOPIC !

[Skerdilaid]

haaaa I don't think Kastrioti would agree ;)

Probably not, but then again let him think what he wants:p

[Skerdilaid]

You the mod, clean it up:)

[iNird]

Jelly much Sheherli?:p

not at all. i bless the marriage.

:p

[Gorštak]

http://www.zaslike.com/files/8jtozxqzby6jsa3dlx9z.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/1ovibw52bdk5lfbs7zl.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/lkvgvr4j5iz1dj57txuk.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/pm63fz78s1v0ypgfwz3d.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/ac3kfxjio2nlgstt6wt.jpg

[Gorštak]

http://www.zaslike.com/files/xv3w1zyhlpfewwnj7cpq.jpg

[Kalimtari]

I personally can't tell you the origin of their outfits, all I know is you can find Serbians as far as Croatian Krajina wearing similar clothes. Did Albanians borrow it from Serbs or opposite is something I can't answer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7Mtye5Rs24

Serbian village with some Albanians. All dressed traditional, tell them apart.

Andrijevica and it's inhabitants were always very connected to Albanians. Some even say they were once Albanians who converted after the Ottoman invasion.

[Gorštak]

http://www.zaslike.com/files/sfe46ae1togu0olgdg8a.jpg

[Arianiti]

[IMG]http://www.gusinje-plav.com/2010pictures/slikeseki/19.jpg



This ain't Bosniak traditional costume, but Albanian. Plav dhe Guci are Albanian provinces in Montenegro.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Andrijevica and it's inhabitants were always very connected to Albanians. Some even say they were once Albanians who converted after the Ottoman invasion.

The Muslims were forcefully converted by the Serbs who lived there or killed or kicked deeper into Ottoman but the region has always been bulwark against Ottoman expansion and has identified as Serbian before Ottomans. It was Ottoman times that brought Albanians to Andrijevica.

[Gorštak]

This ain't Bosniak traditional costume, but Albanian. Plav dhe Guci are Albanian provinces in Montenegro.

Indeed.
Some Bosniak during history dressed same as Albanians, so I guess that leads to confusion.
In before "they are just bosniaksed Albanians", but we talked about that already.

[Arianiti]

Indeed.
Some Bosniak during history dressed same as Albanians, so I guess that leads to confusion.
In before "they are just bosniaksed Albanians", but we talked about that already.

Those in pic are not Bosniaks, they are Albanians.

[Kalimtari]

This ain't Bosniak traditional costume, but Albanian. Plav dhe Guci are Albanian provinces in Montenegro.

the closestthing to our national dresses in BIH is this one:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/388333_249355588454026_1879378890_n.jpg

Široki Brijeg, Hercegovina

[dralos]

bosniakism is a fucking disease

[dralos]

the closestthing to our national dresses in BIH is this one:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/388333_249355588454026_1879378890_n.jpg

Široki Brijeg, Hercegovina
the fustanella and hercegovina is known to be homeland of alot of gheg alboz

[Kalimtari]

here's something similar:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9aUq4YoIRo

[Kalimtari]

the fustanella and hercegovina is known to be homeland of alot of gheg alboz

yeah, they say that for Malesors and Vasojevići Montenegrins (btw, Andrijevica included)

[Arianiti]

This is what I saw in a thread http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?6474-Folk-costumes&p=599843&viewfull=1#post599843


Bosniaks of Sandzak

http://www.bihor-petnica.com/nosnja%20muski.jpg




Bosniak clothing ??!! :lol: :laugh:

This only shows who you were in the past.

[Kalimtari]

This is what I saw in a thread http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?6474-Folk-costumes&p=599843&viewfull=1#post599843




Bosniak clothing ??!! :lol: :laugh:

This only shows who you were in the past.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs8XzS2zYXs

[Gorštak]

Those in pic are not Bosniaks, they are Albanians.


That is not a photo of people, it's just a sketch.
Now, this is a real photo that always cause buthurt:laugh:
http://www.zaslike.com/files/w799kqq9t7t0858wgt6.jpg

[Kalimtari]

That is not a photo of people, it's just a sketch.
Now, this is a real photo that always cause buthurt:laugh:
http://www.zaslike.com/files/w799kqq9t7t0858wgt6.jpg

if this dress/nošnja is non-Albanian then my name is Sven Magnusson and I'm a Nordic god. And I'm dead serious

[Arianiti]

That is not a photo of people, it's just a sketch.
Now, this is a real photo that always cause buthurt:laugh:
http://www.zaslike.com/files/w799kqq9t7t0858wgt6.jpg


I've said picture/drawing, and it represents Albanians.

That is famous pic of Dukagjini/Dukadjini Leaders. Nothing to do with Bosniaks.

[Gorštak]

I've said picture/drawing, and it represents Albanians.

That is famous pic of Dukagjini/Dukadjini Leaders. Nothing to do with Bosniaks.

You shoul tell that to their descendants:p

[Kalimtari]

You shoul tell that to their descendants:p

http://i47.tinypic.com/2hi6ued.jpg

it says: Flag bearers of Dukagjin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukagjin_highlands

[Arianiti]

You shoul tell that to their descendants:p

Those names are fake, and I'm sure the pic is a Photoshop, and fake names inserted. Their descendants are surely Albanians.

[Gorštak]

Those names are fake, and I'm sure the pic is a Photoshop, and fake names inserted. Their descendants are surely Albanians.

I take that pics from Bosniaks from Sandzak.
And I think that Skerdilaid know more than me about those people and their descendants, I think he said to me that they are Bosniaks today, but from Albanian origins.
As for me, they were always Bosniaks:cool:

[Arianiti]

I take that pics from Bosniaks from Sandzak.
And I think that Skerdilaid know more than me about those people and their descendants, I think he said to me that they are Bosniaks today, but from Albanian origins.
As for me, they were always Bosniaks:cool:

They can't be from Sandzak as they are from Dukagjini, which is completely different region. Sure, according to you the whole world must be Bosniak :p

[Gorštak]

They can't be from Sandzak as they are from Dukagjini, which is completely different region. Sure, according to you the whole world must be Bosniak :p

I found it

Swan: Have you ever heard of Ali Pash Guci and Jakup Ferri?


These were Albo to the bone during our wars against Ottomans and Montenegro, now days both families declare to be Bosnian's. Ask them which tribe they hail from and that should solve your issues!

Not all people, but dinarid best part of Albanian nation can be accepted in family:smokin:

[Arianiti]

I found it


Not all people, but dinarid best part of Albanian nation can be accepted in family:smokin:

What family? :P Sandzak will become Albanian as it was in the past. They are fully aware of their Albanian heritage, in contrary to you. :P

P.S. The men in the pix are different people.

[Gorštak]

What family? :P Sandzak will become Albanian as it was in the past. The men in the pix are different people.

Well, I think that Bosniaks from Sandzak would rather live in Albania than in Serbia, but I don't like sound of your words.

[Arianiti]

Well, I think that Bosniaks from Sandzak would rather live in Albania than in Serbia, but I don't like sound of your words.

As far as I know Sandzak people have still fresh historical memory and they are aware of their Albanian heritage, though they don't say it loud. So it will be their decision to go back to their natural roots. The language can easily change if they are willing to do so.

[Gorštak]

As far as I know Sandzak people have still fresh historical memory and they are aware of their Albanian heritage. So it will be their decision to go back to their natural roots. The language can easily change if they are willing to do so.

Bosniaks from Sandzak are today most proud and nationalist part of our nation.
And if they can choose, they would choose that Sandzak is part of Bosnia, but that is unrealistic, so it's best for all to just respect Serbia borders.
But in the other hand, like Albanians know something about "respect Serbia borders";)

[Arianiti]

Bosniaks from Sandzak are today most proud and nationalist part of our nation.
And if they can choose, they would choose that Sandzak is part of Bosnia, but that is unrealistic, so it's best for all to just respect Serbia borders.
But in the other hand, like Albanians know something about "respect Serbia borders";)

We do not respect imposed fake borders. Sandzak belongs with Kosova same as it was only 100 years ago. But still it is their decision.

You can not build a fake nation on someone's else's back. You should know that. Krv nije voda, to treba da znas

[Gorštak]

We do not respect imposed fake borders. Sandzak belongs with Kosova same is it was only 100 years ago. But still it is their decision.

You can not build a fake nation on someone's else's back. You should know that. Krv nije voda, to treba da znas

You said it, it's their choice, and it seems their choice is that they are Bosniaks, so even if some of them indeed have Albanians origins, it isn't important if they consider themselves Bosniaks.
I mean, if they want to be Albanians, let them be, it's their right.

Anyway, this is offtopic, I'm done.

[Lucifer]

What family? :P Sandzak will become Albanian as it was in the past. They are fully aware of their Albanian heritage, in contrary to you. :P

P.S. The men in the pix are different people.

sure sure...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5usqoOkTME#t=36

but yeah they consider themselves as alabanians :rolleyes:

[Gorštak]

http://www.zaslike.com/files/xnyji32c72pxcfd0rg2.jpg

[Methmatician]

but yeah they consider themselves as alabanians :rolleyes:

Sandžak Bosniaks about 100 years ago.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2qvw3f4.jpg

[Gorštak]

http://www.zaslike.com/files/xnyji32c72pxcfd0rg2.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/pi33av4h77jaror9xsg7.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/lcejemokbwfc69bsrt.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/5oindo56j10xwqthmwd.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/o8l1fnkjgz4man8boovn.jpg

[Hurrem sultana]

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/hnKxeHlFKaQ/maxresdefault.jpg

http://www.bosnjaci-smz.hr/images/nur_akt_nosnja_01.jpg

http://narodni.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/tradicionalne-no%C5%A1nje-srednje-Bosne.jpg

http://static.klix.ba/media/images/vijesti/s1_050419003.jpg

[Gorštak]

http://www.zaslike.com/files/pthl85iy1nxg3rcr1k.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/3x50ov68msvzlwjaoitw.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/evzm2n9dktlon4zusj60.jpg
http://www.zaslike.com/files/mtwiy2cy8fudj3xnz9o1.jpg
:p
http://www.zaslike.com/files/mwvc4urwzv56ihrvkh5.jpg