Do French-speaking Swiss people consider themselves French?

[Nadezhda89]

Do French-speaking Swiss people consider themselves French? Just wondering. I know that French-speaking Belgians consider themselves French and not Belgian. What about the French-speaking Swiss people?
:icon_ask:

[Partizan]

Well, my French speaking Swiss friends mostly identify themselves as French firstly or mention that they are "Swiss French".

[Smaug]

I thought Beligians and French hated each other.

[Corvus]

I doubt it. The Swiss Confederation is based on 3 ethnicities under one roof.
German Swiss-French Swiss-Italian Swiss. They all identify themselfes as Swiss and their unique history, economical success and their special neutral status are the leading factors that they are a very proud population.

The Swiss German on contrast to Austrians also never view themselves as Germans. So why should it be different among the French Swiss.

[Nadezhda89]

Well, my French speaking Swiss friends mostly identify themselves as French firstly or mention that they are "Swiss French".
Really? Are they real Swiss or just French who live there?
I doubt it. The Swiss Confederation is based on 3 ethnicities under one roof.
German Swiss-French Swiss-Italian Swiss. They all identify themselfes as Swiss and their unique history, economical success and their special neutral status are the leading factors that they are a very proud population.

The Swiss German on contrast to Austrians also never view themselves as Germans. So why should it be different among the French Swiss.
Yeah, I was wondering about Swiss Germans as well.

[Corvus]

Really? Are they real Swiss or just French who live there?
Yeah, I was wondering about Swiss Germans as well.

I can tell you for sure that the German speaking Swiss don`t regard themselves to be German. The language they use also differs a lot from standard German.
It is hardly intellegible for a German or Austrian.

[rashka]

I have a feeling that they like to identify themselves more with the French.

[Nadezhda89]

I have a feeling that they like to identify themselves more with the French.
Do you know such people? :confused:

[Partizan]

Really? Are they real Swiss or just French who live there?

Swiss.

Well, as long as Switzerland hosts important banks of the World, they will stay in the same country no matter what they feel, do not worry :thumb001:

[Albion]

I've heard that French and German speaking Swiss hate France and Germany respectively.

[Nadezhda89]

I've heard that French and German speaking Swiss hate France and Germany respectively.
Really? :rolleyes:

[Comte Arnau]

Switzerland has got three official languages: German, French and Italian.

However, the real native ones are Alemannic, Arpitan and Lombard. :D

[Óttar]

I've heard that French and German speaking Swiss hate France and Germany respectively.
From what I've heard, the Swiss are very insular and are suspicious of any non-Swiss; French, German, it doesn't matter.

[Albion]

Really? :rolleyes:

Yes, maybe because the French invaded them and created the Helvetic republic whilst the Prussians briefly considered an invasion as well.

[aherne]

Switzerland has got three official languages: German, French and Italian.

However, the real native ones are Alemannic, Arpitan and Lombard. :D

Indeed. Plus Rhaeto-Romance. All above three languages are almost totally unintelligible from their official "version". Allemannic is as similar to standard German as Dutch (almost intelligible when written, not intelligible in spoken form). German is a macro-ethnicity, united by a common history, a common name, what used to be a common consciousness and of course West Germanic "dialects".

[Peyrol]

The fact is that ''french'' swiss is, in reality, Arpitan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Proven%C3%A7al_language)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Arpitania-arpitan-harpitanya-franco-proven%C3%A7al.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/scn/7/73/ARP-arpitania-arpitanie-FRP.png

[Comte Arnau]

The fact is that ''french'' swiss is, in reality, Arpitan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Proven%C3%A7al_language)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Arpitania-arpitan-harpitanya-franco-proven%C3%A7al.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/scn/7/73/ARP-arpitania-arpitanie-FRP.png

However, to me Lombard is more distant with regard to Italian than Arpitan with regard to French or Alemannic with regard to Standard German.

[Peyrol]

However, to me Lombard is more distant with regard to Italian than Arpitan with regard to French or Alemannic with regard to Standard German.

That's for sure.

This is spoken lombard:

zhGTtx85VMQ

This valdotàin (Northern Piemont/Vallèe D'Aoste), an arpitan dialect, close to ''french swiss'' and savoyard:

rHfKwy8wKuU

[Comte Arnau]

Loved the Valdostan!

[Peyrol]

Loved the Valdostan!

It's quite easy to understand and very musical.
As his cousin Occitan, is disappearing in France while here, even if is declining, is still vigorous.

[Albion]

The fact is that ''french'' swiss is, in reality, Arpitan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Proven%C3%A7al_language)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Arpitania-arpitan-harpitanya-franco-proven%C3%A7al.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/scn/7/73/ARP-arpitania-arpitanie-FRP.png

If it's easily mutually intelligible with French then it is just French. Continentals are far too generous when it comes to designating dialects as languages.
What's that spot in the centre of Italy anyway?

[Peyrol]

If it's easily mutually intelligible with French then it is just French. Continentals are far too generous when it comes to designating dialects as languages.
What's that spot in the centre of Italy anyway?

It isn't, because is the intermediate language between occitan and french.
Arpitan linguistic island in southern Italy are two villages which were populated with savoyarde colonist during norman rule of Apulia. The language is still alive.

[le penalty]

French suisse don't like french so ...

[Albion]

It isn't, because is the intermediate language between occitan and french.
Arpitan linguistic island in southern Italy are two villages which were populated with savoyarde colonist during norman rule of Apulia. The language is still alive.

Then a dialect continuum, either way I don't regard it as a separate language. The dialects should classified as French or Occitan based on which they most closely resemble. It won't be obvious for some, but the world has many linguists that can settle it.

[Comte Arnau]

Things don't work like that in linguistics. If we distinguished languages and dialects by the 'mutual intelligibility' factor, each one of us would have a different opinion.

If it's got a series of phonological isoglosses, basic distinct grammar traits and a core lexicon which show an evolution of its own from Vulgar Latin, then it is a distinct linguistic system, that is, a language.

I'm no expert in Arpitan, but from what it seems, it's a Northern Gallo-Romance language close to the Oil languages but apart from them. Probably the Northern Gallo-Romance branch had an early split between two important centers, Paris and Lyon, North-Eastern Gallo-Romance around Lyon evolving into modern Arpitan. Which now seems to be bordering extinction, except perhaps for the variety in the Aosta Valley, in Italy. The start of the decay was when the Duchy of Savoy adopted French for legal things in the 16th century.

[Peyrol]

Then a dialect continuum, either way I don't regard it as a separate language. The dialects should classified as French or Occitan based on which they most closely resemble. It won't be obvious for some, but the world has many linguists that can settle it.




Things don't work like that in linguistics. If we distinguished languages and dialects by the 'mutual intelligibility' factor, each one of us would have a different opinion.

If it's got a series of phonological isoglosses, basic distinct grammar traits and a core lexicon which show an evolution of its own from Vulgar Latin, then it is a distinct linguistic system, that is, a language.

I'm no expert in Arpitan, but from what it seems, it's a Northern Gallo-Romance language close to the Oil languages but apart from them. Probably the Northern Gallo-Romance branch had an early split between two important centers, Paris and Lyon, North-Eastern Gallo-Romance around Lyon evolving into modern Arpitan. Which now seems to be bordering extinction, except perhaps for the variety in the Aosta Valley, in Italy. The start of the decay was when the Duchy of Savoy adopted French for legal things in the 16th century.

Arpitòn is also quite mutually intelligible with piemontese, and not only with french or occitan...and yes, is a proper language.
Is understandable for a catalan?

[Rudel]

I thought Beligians and French hated each other.
The Flemish are butthurt as hell. I've never head or Walloon vs French hate. Wouldn't make sense.


The fact is that ''french'' swiss is, in reality, Arpitan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Proven%C3%A7al_language)
French from Switzerland is just French. There isn't much dialect left, like in France. That's the complete opposite of Allemanic Switzerland (we makes me think both population are more deeply like their parent groups than they think).
And don't call it "Arpitan", for God's sake. The word is retarded as hell.

French-speaking Swiss live in a separate world and would never refer to themselves as French.

[Visitor_22]

Indeed. Plus Rhaeto-Romance. All above three languages are almost totally unintelligible from their official "version". Allemannic is as similar to standard German as Dutch (almost intelligible when written, not intelligible in spoken form). German is a macro-ethnicity, united by a common history, a common name, what used to be a common consciousness and of course West Germanic "dialects".


Bullshit let be honest. All high german languages are based on Alemannic dialects.

While northern Low German/Low Saxon are totally different languages that don't that relate to High German that much.

[aherne]

Bullshit let be honest. All high german languages are based on Alemannic dialects.

While northern Low German/Low Saxon are totally different languages that don't that relate to High German that much.
Your knowledge of linguistics is zero:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germanic_languages

[Shuffle]

Well, swiss dialects are difficult to understand if you are not used to hear it, but once used to hear it, they're not too hard to understand and closer to standard-german than dutch. The dialects spoken in the south of Baden-Württemberg and in the south-west of Bavaria don't differ too much from northern- and eastern-swiss dialects, people there easily understand the swiss. It is a recent developpement that swiss don't see themselves as part of germans as cultural group, didn't start before the end of WWII, and very recently became somehow dominant in swiss minds.

[Bobby Martnen]

They ARE French, regardless of how they see themselves.