What differentiates Europeans from Americans?

[Beorn]

Is it culture, language, religion, sub-cultures, music, DNA, sports, collective mindsets, etc...?

How do you define and differentiate between the two?

[Piparskeggr]

Heya Wat;

I think one thing that sets folks on my side of the pond apart is we look to our own country first, because of the distance from Europe (and Asia, and Africa, hell, South America, too) and the size of our nation.

We have 24,274,959 square kilometers full of nothing but Americans, essentially.

Sure, we have land borders with 2 other nations, but neither Canada nor Mexico have populations, which (historically) have been of a size to press against those borders in such a manner as the average Joe Six-Pack need be concerned about other folks. It hasn't been until recently, with the alarm over illegals, that most folks have looked at Mexico outside of Acapulco and Cancun.

This insularity does lead to a certain (sometimes large) amount of provincialism. To many men and women of my acquaintance the world is divided into two territories; the United States of America and Not the USA. So many folks here are so ignorant of world geography; Athens is a town in the state of Georgia and Lima (long i) is a town in Ohio.

I've seen "man on the street" interviews where people can not even point out China or Russia on an outline map of the world.

Ignorance of the wider world, that's the big thing.

[Atlas]

Good question, there are many difference and ressemblance too. Remember the first quote of Pulp Fiction ? Same movies, same music, same cigarettes drugs etc. Different language exept for Ireland, Scotland and UK. Different cultures too.

But we are both western and then we share many things, so that doesn't make us ennemies, not nowadays at least.

[Equinox]

When did the mentality change from being that of adventurous colonials to (generally) ignorant xenophobes?

[Jägerstaffel]

Oh it's our indian/african DNA.

[Loyalist]

Stirpes.

[Beorn]

When did the mentality change from being that of adventurous colonials to (generally) ignorant xenophobes?

After you conquered all in your path with little to no resistance.

I personally think the difference between North Americans and Europeans is the tangible evolution of ones neighbours.

[Sol Invictus]

I don't see any difference personally.. European is European! :thumb001:

[Aemma]

Nothing. You're both not Canadian. :smokin01:

[Mrs Ulf]

A large body of water....

I'd have to say not much, we are a product of our environments and as far as differences go its purely environmental.

[SwordoftheVistula]

I think the main differences are:

The world wars had a big effect on the culture of Europe but not much effect on the US. The use of violence never resulted in an 'epic fail' for Americans, so we are a much more violent culture on the international level (willingness to fight wars), societal level, (approval of capital punishment), personal level (support for the usage of violence to protect self/family/property), and even in the realm of fantasy (Germany and some other European countries ban 'violent' video games, whereas the US government produced a violent 'first person shooter' video game as a military recruiting tool).

The 'romantic movement' never had much impact here. The last European philosophical movement which had major influence on the American psyche was the Enlightenment, people like John Locke.

Another big difference is that we never had a monarchy and hereditary aristocracy, so all of the various cultural things that accompanied that, including the reaction against it and all the class warfare and class identity never happened here. Included in this is that socialism/marxism/communism was never real popular here, they only arrived in via the 'backdoor' and under the guise of other names.

Religion is another big difference, most of Europe north and west of Poland is basically nonreligious, whereas religion is still a big factor in American life in the South and Midwest.

We also have had a 'head start' on the rest of the west in dealing with nonwhite immigrants, first in the early 20th century with blacks from the American South and jews from eastern and central Europe, then massive waves of Latin Americans starting in the 1970s. This has influenced the American antipathy towards social welfare systems, mass transit, and urban life, as well as near universal support for capital punishment and widespread acceptance of 'police brutality' and tough prison sentences.

Most Americans are only 3-4 generations removed from a farm family. This has effected both dietary habits (eating massive meals was needed to get energy for farm work) and the general attitude towards self-reliance (history of living on isolated farmsteads).


I think one thing that sets folks on my side of the pond apart is we look to our own country first, because of the distance from Europe (and Asia, and Africa, hell, South America, too) and the size of our nation.

We have 24,274,959 square kilometers full of nothing but Americans, essentially.

Sure, we have land borders with 2 other nations, but neither Canada nor Mexico have populations, which (historically) have been of a size to press against those borders in such a manner as the average Joe Six-Pack need be concerned about other folks. It hasn't been until recently, with the alarm over illegals, that most folks have looked at Mexico outside of Acapulco and Cancun.

This insularity does lead to a certain (sometimes large) amount of provincialism. To many men and women of my acquaintance the world is divided into two territories; the United States of America and Not the USA. So many folks here are so ignorant of world geography; Athens is a town in the state of Georgia and Lima (long i) is a town in Ohio.

I've seen "man on the street" interviews where people can not even point out China or Russia on an outline map of the world.

Ignorance of the wider world, that's the big thing.


When did the mentality change from being that of adventurous colonials to (generally) ignorant xenophobes?

Those aren't mutually exclusive.

People here don't learn about other places because they don't have to, this being the largest/wealthiest/most important country etc etc.

For example, to someone from New York City, the world is divided into:

Manhattan ('The City')
Brooklyn
Queens
Staten Island
The Bronx
Long Island
New Jersey
Upstate
Other Places



Most major cities probably have the same thing going, I imagine the average Londoner doesn't know much about the various other random places in Britain (why would they? no need to), but most people from the various other random places in Britain know something about London.


Combine this with not losing any major war, or having a colonial empire which has fallen to pieces, and you have the source of our 'cant be beaten/fuck the world' attitude, which has also slowed the advance of 'modern' liberal ideas or made us more 'backwards' depending on your perspective.

[Equinox]

A large body of water....

I'd have to say not much, we are a product of our environments and as far as differences go its purely environmental.

A large body of water proved no problem in establishing the Philippines as a colony, as well as other territorial acquisitions from the Spanish American War.

[SwordoftheVistula]

A large body of water proved no problem in establishing the Philippines as a colony, as well as other territorial acquisitions from the Spanish American War.

That didn't have any effect on the culture though, other than Peurto Rican communities in a few northeastern cities which were established in the 2nd half of the 20th century, and to some extent drawing us into WWII by placing us in proximity/conflict with Japan's Pacific empire.

[Equinox]

That didn't have any effect on the culture though, other than Peurto Rican communities in a few northeastern cities which were established in the 2nd half of the 20th century, and to some extent drawing us into WWII by placing us in proximity/conflict with Japan's Pacific empire.

That is true. However, the point I am raising is that the US has (and still is?) an expansionist power - acquisitions made in the Spanish American War and subsequent conflicts hold this to be true.

Others have contended in this thread that the change in mentality was due to the fact that expansion has reached it's limits with the acquisition of the Western states. Obviously this is not the case, as an expansionist mentality remained for much longer (and perhaps remains to this day).

[Electronic God-Man]

When did the mentality change from being that of adventurous colonials to (generally) ignorant xenophobes?

Besides the "ignorant" part, why is being an adventurous colonial and a "xenophobe" mutually exclusive? Maybe we have always been both and still are.


Something like "provincial" might be a better term than xenophobe. Plenty of Americans are wary of people from other parts of the country let alone outside of it.

[SwordoftheVistula]

That is true. However, the point I am raising is that the US has (and still is?) an expansionist power - acquisitions made in the Spanish American War and subsequent conflicts hold this to be true.

Others have contended in this thread that the change in mentality was due to the fact that expansion has reached it's limits with the acquisition of the Western states. Obviously this is not the case, as an expansionist mentality remained for much longer (and perhaps remains to this day).

That's 2 different types of 'expansionism'

The expansion to the western states was one of settlement and colonization of sparsely populated areas, called 'Manifest Destiny' and similar to the German concepts of 'Lebensraum' and 'Drang nach Osten'.

The Spanish-American war marked the beginning of competition with European powers on their terms. Unlike the 'Manifest Destiny' type expansionism, this was justified to the public on ideological grounds rather than self interest, was viewed by the public with a mix of indifference and apathy and World Cup style cheering, and these places were never settled and colonized.

[Kempenzoon]

Good question, there are many difference and ressemblance too. Remember the first quote of Pulp Fiction ? Same movies, same music, same cigarettes drugs etc.

In the mainstream only pretty much.

I mostly watch European movies. Less than 5% of my humongous music collection is American, I don't do cigarettes or drugs, and my alcohol is all European brew, 98% of what I drink is even locally Belgian brew. It's very possible to avoid American culture for the biggest part in your personal life.

But yeah, I agree that there are some things the same. Still, the most important things to me to define someone's ethnicity are language and culture (both IMO more important than strict heritage, though that matters as well obviously). So to me, Europeans and Americans are two entirely different populations.

[Tony]

The major difference that strikes me is the urban landscape , while European cities are mostly intelligible to everyone the American ones aren't.

When you're walking in an European city you're very easily get used to its scheme , there's usually an historical center , the oldest going back to the classical times , then as you go further away from this core you will see styles changing , the medieval with its Romanesque and then Gothic buildings , the Renaissance , the modern era , the neogothic and so on until you reach the XX century area , and then as you approach the outskirts the diversity of residential areas , condos , luxury condos , detatched or semi-detached houses , villas , the highways etc and you hardly need to drive a car since public transportation are really efficient , both on the surface and underground.

the typical American city is totally different , the center looks soulless to me , there ain't no real sense of community but nothing but parking lots , multi parking lots , malls , hospitals , offices , some unusual desert area tha pops up here and there , driveaways , abandoned plants , whole abandoned districts , factories , I assume none really live there and the center is more an utilitarian and industrial concept than a space for human beings and relationships.
Citizens are relegated on the outskirts where urban sprawl spread even for tens of miles and public transportation is no as extended as the in Europe , mostly because of racial motivations.

Of course there's also exceptions to this general rule , cities in the North East , the oldest ones , sometimes look more European and some European cities , especially those who suffered major destruction in WWII look less typically Euro , say Rotterdam.


Other great diffences are how we and you deal with money , I actually find Americans less hypocrite about it while we're a bit shy to talk of money as we weren't be that interested (but we are of course just like anyone) , as we were superhuman aristocrats who find unelegant/plebean worring about money.

Americans are too self-focused , both on a political level and on a personal one , sometimes seems they really don't care no don't know what happens out of their family/restriched circle of friends, and that goes on a political level too.

[Piparskeggr]

When did the mentality change from being that of adventurous colonials to (generally) ignorant xenophobes?

I think that Americans have been inward looking, insofar as thinking the world is U.S. and them, since the "Manifest Destiny" days, starting in the early 1800's.

I think it was exacerbated by the industrialization of our populace, where we came into the notion that the only thing the rest of the wold had to give us was raw materials and markets for our finished goods. Except, maybe, them furriners from Europe, they do got culture we ain't got.

The simple thing I see is, we, as individual Americans (and collectively) have never really had to deal with the rest of the world until lately. <shrug>

[EWtt]

I think the main thing would be that America is a melting pot of cultures and nations, in comparison to Europe where each culture and nation is still more or less separated by national borders - although a somewhat similar process has also begun here due to migration, multiculturalism and globalization.

[Gooding]

Is it culture, language, religion, sub-cultures, music, DNA, sports, collective mindsets, etc...?

How do you define and differentiate between the two?

Thanks, Wat, I've been thinking about that very topic as of late. I'll go ahead and start with my understanding of Europeans and then I'll move a bit closer to home and go with the American paradigm.

I would say that as a rule, Europeans are far more traditional in their outlook, as they've got centuries of custom and tradition to inform their social behavior. They are far more likely to be politically active and to participate in their local and national governments.They seem to be more reserved in their dealings with foreigners and slower to accept outlanders into their milieu. In the Northwestern areas of the continent, they've got a more secular outlook than many Americans, while in the South and East, many of them seem to be far more religious.DNA is different as well, at least from the Colonial Americans, as their gene pool has been a bit smaller(at least until recently) and they had already adapted physically to their enviornment.Colonial Americans in earlier days were noted as being taller and more resistant to disease than their European counterparts, as their diets and habits were different.Today, Europeans are easily more health conscious than Americans.Europe in area has a far wider range of languages(being the cradle of said languages)than America, where English and Spanish dominate, followed by Creole and Acadian dialects of French, then Pennsylvania Dietsch, then the American Indian languages and African American dialects such as Gullah.Europeans take great pride in their cultures and their reserve may clash with the gregariousness of many Americans, with the result that Europeans see Americans as barbaric and Americans see Europeans as arrogant snobs.

Americans have a far younger range of cultures that have evolved in the regions of their country.We are far more likely to be willing to pick up stakes and migrate to different areas of the country and of the world at this point.Americans like to try new things and as we aren't as grounded in our local regions as others might be. In the South, we're fascinated to the point of obsession with our genealogy and the various parts of the world that our ancestors came from.Our DNA has diverged to the point that we not only have a large European base of ancestry, which we celebrate, but many people have more exotic elements such as American Indians or African Americans in their bloodlines, generally four to eight generations back.America's a secular government on paper, as the Founding Fathers were men schooled in Enlightenment Principles, but since the early 1900s to the present, the Christian populace has injected the government with a strong religious strain.Like Europeans, Americans love sports.Americans of European descent form a majority in a country that also has millions of African Americans, Asians, Hispanics, Indians,Middle Easterners and Native Americans.This plurality has existed since the early 1900s, at least in the cities. So, while Europeans and Americans of European descent may have genetic similarities, we are very different in culture, outlook, social intercourse and priorities.Provincialism can be said to be a common trait of Europeans and Americans, as people in general tend to distrust outsiders.I would say that Europeans prize tradition and Americans prize innovation.

[Aemma]

It is absolutely irrelevant to us whether Kim Kardashian (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6658) is white or not. ;)

Being "Switzerland" here as best as I can but it seems the same can be said of our American friends here too Lahtari. But I do hasten to point out for the record though that the member who did start this thread indeed IS European. :thumbs up

[Æmeric]

The majority of (White) Americans do not like or want a welfare state. Europeans can't imagine life without it.:rolleyes:

Europeans are more collectivist, maybe because of the heritage of feudalism & a legal class base system. Americans lean towards indivualism & self-reliance, a legacy of an era when most American households were headed by yeoman farmers who tended their own land.

[Tony]

The majority of (White) Americans do not like or want a welfare state. Europeans can't imagine life without it.:rolleyes:

Europeans are more collectivist, maybe because of the heritage of feudalism & a legal class base system. Americans lean towards indivualism & self-reliance, a legacy of an era when most American households were headed by yeoman farmers who tended their own land.
Do you think we can find any racial motivation behind it or is it just due to different historical developments?
I somewhat believe people are more in favour of welfare when they live in a predominantly monoracial society , like it's the case for Scandinavian countries , while in multiracial states people are less altruistic that is less prone to pay for someone who doesn't share a drop of blood with them.
Hypothetically speaking would you rather be more favourable to welfare if America were 99,9% White-European?

[Luern]

This:


I would love to have the time to learn Breton, Welsh, Mordvin and Komi as well as a few others. I have no desire whatsoever to learn Chinese, Hindi, Zulu, Indonesian and many others. It is not my culture nor my people.

[Æmeric]

Hypothetically speaking would you rather be more favourable to welfare if America were 99,9% White-European?

No. The welfare state as we know it penalizes those who work & are responsible & rewards those who are irresponsible & in many cases do not want to work. People are more responsible when they know there are consequences for their bad decisions. Here in the US we have drug addicts on disability - because of their addiction - & are collecting welfare. Women have children out-of-wedlock with no means to support them & expect the welfare system to pay for it. In the US it is mainly non-Whites abusing the system but there are also Whites abusing it. Welfare subsidizes the existence & procreation of an underclass. Many people see governemnt welfare/entitlement programs as a way to get free money or a free service but someone is paying for it. And it is not the very rich, because they can afford highpriced tax attorneys & accountants to shelter their wealth from high progressive taxes. It's the middleclass & the working bluecollar class that pays for welfare.

It would be best if people would purchase private insurance to provide for those unexpected misfortunes like early death or disability. And put money away into private pension plans. Anything done by government is always less efficient & more costly then the same service provided by the private sector.

[Freomæg]

Didn't Mrs Lyfing recently start almost this exact thread a few months ago?

In my opinion, there is an innate sense of privilege in America. It goes right back to the roots of the nation and America's history of unparalleled liberty. Americans have been, and I think still are, raised with the idea that America is the greatest nation on Earth due to the freedoms available. I don't think this sense of superiority is as outspoken in Europe, if it exists even - we take the view that 'we are what we are'. Whereas America takes the view that 'we are what we created'.

I think this patriotism, a type unique to Americans, is a double-edged sword. It has bred both innovation and an entrepreneurial spirit, as well as arrogance and complacency. This patriotism is also more-often-than-not unconditional - something which has been exploited in full by America's rogue government in the invasion of nations.

In Europe, this patriotism is dying, and with it all sense of optimisim and innovation. The good thing is that our unconditional patriotism is dying too and more and more people are learning to distance themselves from a corrupt establishment.

[Loki]

No. The welfare state as we know it penalizes those who work & are responsible & rewards those who are irresponsible & in many cases do not want to work. People are more responsible when they know there are consequences for their bad decisions.

There's not a direct link between financial independence and hard work. Many, if not most, wealthy people in the US were born with a golden spoon in the mouth -- i.e. parents who had money to prepare their kids for life. Many rich people don't even know the meaning of hard work.

[Lahtari]

Do you think we can find any racial motivation behind it or is it just due to different historical developments?
I somewhat believe people are more in favour of welfare when they live in a predominantly monoracial society , like it's the case for Scandinavian countries , while in multiracial states people are less altruistic that is less prone to pay for someone who doesn't share a drop of blood with them.
Hypothetically speaking would you rather be more favourable to welfare if America were 99,9% White-European?

And going further - and what I think is the main difference between Europe and America - European nations (in the proper, ethno-nationalist sense) actually are direct continuations of the phenomenon called nepotism, aka. favouring your own relatives over strangers. The peoples living in an average Old World nation have intermarried for centuries (or even millennias), and the neighboring tribes that the nation was originally created from were not too different to begin with. As a result, it's members really are relatives in contrast to others. Add to this a shared language, shared culture and a shared historical experience, and you get what we are made of.

Feodalism has little to do with it, the most collective ones are the Nordic countries where feodalism never existed and the class society was weaker in comparison as well. When we cast the vote for Sos.Dem., it ultimately comes down to our genetic interest of solidarity towards our kin - and to the culture shaped by this ethnic nepotism. Even when people are aware of the corruption of the system and all the people abusing it, they can value the benefits higher than the costs. And needless to say, in my opinion this has gotten out of hand, and badly.

While I believe in ethnically homogenous states, this is also a weakness that can, and has been corrupted into a feeling of global solidarity (:sick2:) and will wipe us out of the map to make space to more healthier cultures.

[Manifest Destiny]

Is it culture, language, religion, sub-cultures, music, DNA, sports, collective mindsets, etc...?

How do you define and differentiate between the two?

Aside from DNA, everything you listed there is an aspect of culture. That, in my opinion, is really the only consistent difference between us. And European culture and American culture aren't always different, either. Among the younger generations, I'm guessing that we listen to the same types of music, for example (except country music, maybe). Many Europeans speak English, too. Most religious Europeans are Christians, as are most religious Americans. So on and so forth.

[Óttar]

When did the mentality change from being that of adventurous colonials to (generally) ignorant xenophobes?

When the original 1776 New England (and to a lesser extent Virginia) elites let a bunch of provincial Billy boys run amok. You must remember it was intended that rich white male landowners dictated policy.

[anonymaus]

There's not a direct link between financial independence and hard work. Many, if not most, wealthy people in the US were born with a golden spoon in the mouth -- i.e. parents who had money to prepare their kids for life. Many rich people don't even know the meaning of hard work.

This is exactly right. There was a decent article last year articulating how people of means are raised and taught to build a social network through which they can maintain their wealth: those without are raised and taught about the value of hard work, etc.

[Æmeric]

There's not a direct link between financial independence and hard work. Many, if not most, wealthy people in the US were born with a golden spoon in the mouth -- i.e. parents who had money to prepare their kids for life. Many rich people don't even know the meaning of hard work.

It is possible to advance economically in this country. Some of the richest people in the US are self-made. Bill Gates. Warren Buffet. The Walton clan. But financial independence doesn't necessarily mean a person is a millionaire. The Amish for example are financially independent without being wealthy or at least not exhibiting the trappings of wealth. Being financially independent means not being dependent on others (including the governemnt) for the support of one's self or one's family. It doesn't mean clipping coupons.

Some people are smarter then others. Some are better at managing finances & not acquiring a dozen credit cards to buy 'stuff'. Some are content to just get by, others are more aggressive in the drive to accumulate wealth & will work harder &/or longer hours to achieve financial success. So why should everyone end up with the same benefits? And why shouldn't the children & grandchildren of those who create wealth legitimately not benefit from that wealth & the social & economic networks associated with it? I don't begrudge people like the Rockefellers their inherited wealth, only that they use it to promote liberal cause & one-world government. Oh, and that they support progressive taxation that makes it harder to become wealthy while their own fortunes are sheltered in trust funds.

[lei.talk]

There's not a direct link between financial independence and hard work. Many, if not most, wealthy people in the US were born with a golden spoon in the mouth --
i.e. parents who had money to prepare their kids for life. Many rich people don't even know the meaning of hard work. it is true that effort does not, necessarily, equal progress
statistical evidence does not support this statement (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=918108#post918108)
working "smart" is, usually, distinct from working hard


the efficacious application of effort
toward one's benefit
is the anti-thesis of working for the benefit of an employer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery).

[Loki]

So why should everyone end up with the same benefits? And why shouldn't the children & grandchildren of those who create wealth legitimately not benefit from that wealth & the social & economic networks associated with it?

I do not disagree that people who have managed to create wealth for themselves and their families, should benefit more by having more possessions, luxuries, better quality of life, etc.

What I am getting at, is that basic necessities should not be out of reach of anyone, regardless of their wealth -- in a wealthy, civilized country like the USA. In every society you will have people who have achieved success -- either by skill, thrift, deceit, or pure luck. In the same way you will have people whose lives could be classified as failures -- by their own doing, bad luck, misfortune, or any other reason.

The latter should still be able to get access to basic necessities such as drinking water and healthcare. It is not for us to judge others by penalizing them in having at least a means to go to the doctor when they are ill. In the UK, for example, poor people can go to the doctor and not be charged anything. That does not mean they can get liposuction or cosmetic surgery, but perhaps life-saving operations. It is the minimum of decency for any self-respecting society to look at the poor in at least in a minimum sort of way. What I disagree with, is trends like "health tourism" from illegal aliens and immigrants. But I am talking about a country's indigenous population.



the efficacious application of effort
toward one's benefit
is the anti-thesis of working for the benefit of an employer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery).

In every society there are jobs that are not so glamorous that have to be done by someone. Like street sweeping, toilet cleaning, baristas at coffee shops, etc. It doesn't mean these people work less hard than those who command high salaries. They are just incapable of achieving more in life by limiting factors such as genetics. The Bell Curve is a reality. We can't all be geniuses who start up businesses and become millionaires.

[Frigga]

There is also something that differentiates Americans from Europeans. I will not try to say anything about Europeans as I do not have enough knowledge to back up my views. I will stick to a discussion about America.

Americans used to be famous for "Good Old Yankee Know-How" which meant that we used to be known for being handed a problem, and fixing it ourselves. This I believe is rooted in our Colonial heritage. Settlers came from the old country before we were even a nation and carved out a living against many odds. There was the unfamiliar country, the hostile natives, the unknown weather conditions, and the struggle to do without the known comforts of home without a solid lifeline back. This I believe bred ingenuity in the Old Stock American, and self sufficency, and we used to be the culmination of what was best of Europe and America in the early twentieth century. The World War Two generation was called The Greatest Generation. People back then were I believe more noble, and honest and caring as whole compared to now. I believe that this could also be applied to Canadians, as they are our colonial sibling.

Americans today no longer have this quality to our national character. This I believe is due in part to the industrialization of farming, and the migration of families to urban areas because of it. I also think that the baby boomer generation was spoiled by their parents of the Depression era, as their parents didn't want them to suffer the hardships that they went through. So, now we have the children of the baby boomers to define our cultural image. And since we as a generation have not gone through tremendous hardship together as a country, we are weak spoiled children, with no defining character. Tough times breeds tough people, and what tough times has our country gone through in the last century? Not enough to make us into a people worthy of respect. We have inherited the sense of entitlement, but we have not truly earned the right of that entitlement.

[Phlegethon]

I will always prefer the last European to the first American.

[Frigga]

Well, that's not the topic of discussion now is it?

[Brännvin]

The majority of (White) Americans do not like or want a welfare state. Europeans can't imagine life without it.:rolleyes:

Funny post when in fact the U.S. is the world's largest corporate welfare, example the U.S firearm industry is all almost subsidized by the government, agricultural subsidies in the U.S. are the world's largest and the list goes on. :cool:



Europeans are more collectivist, maybe because of the heritage of feudalism & a legal class base system.

How if the reform Protestant had not destroyed it completely :coffee:, without forgetting to mention the impact of thirty years' war, which finally ruined all rest of Catholic 'feudal' influence in northern Europe.

By the way, the feudal system was not in any way homogeneous and monolithic, it was essential to establish the regional identity of different ethnic groups.



Americans lean towards indivualism & self-reliance, a legacy of an era when most American households were headed by yeoman farmers who tended their own land.

Is it also valid to the system of plantation that perpetuated during the American colonial period?
That system has left a legacy of 15% of American population, today, composed by Africans.

[Jägerstaffel]

I will always prefer the last European to the first American.

Good thing no American gives a shit.

[Grumpy Cat]

As a Canadian, I see Europeans and Americans as ideologues of opposite stripes, Europeans to the left and Americans to the right. Not all of them but Europe has a lot of far-leftists and the US has a lot of far-rightists. Or maybe, being a nation in the center it is, Canadian politics is just plain boring... we don't have the strong right/left division that the US and Europe have.

[Phlegethon]

Good thing no American gives a shit.

Apparently they do. For the last 60 years yankees have been trying to coerce the world to like them. The effects can be watched worldwide.

[Jägerstaffel]

Apparently they do. For the last 60 years yankees have been trying to coerce the world to like them. The effects can be watched worldwide.

Just so we can have your resources and make money off you.

[Gooding]

Just so we can have your resources and make money off you.

Now that we do, they can bloody well piss off, no? :D It's called calling in old debts.We've bailed them out long enough, now they can pay the piper and stfu about it.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Apparently they do. For the last 60 years yankees have been trying to coerce the world to like them.

That's just a small group of elites. Think, 'white educated people who voted for John Kerry'. These people:

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com


The majority of Americans couldn't be bothered one way of the other about what the rest of the world thinks, and a sizable minority revels in being hated by the rest of the world. That's actually one difference I forgot to list earlier: Europeans seem to care more about what the rest of the world thinks about them, foreign policy issues are major news stories and campaign issues, diplomacy is more valued; whereas Americans are much more inward-looking, with general disregard and contempt for the rest of the world.

[Loki]

... Americans are much more inward-looking, with general disregard and contempt for the rest of the world.

Isn't that part of the problem though? Many people elsewhere in the world do not like being treated with contempt.

[Phlegethon]

And the miserable state of the world today can directly be traced towards the American "I don't give a fuck" attitude.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Isn't that part of the problem though? Many people elsewhere in the world do not like being treated with contempt.

It is one the differences between Americans and Europeans. Europeans see it as a problem that this attitude exists, Americans see it as a problem that Europeans care. I'm personally inclined to allow this attitude to exist, since the only other options appear to be xenophilia (bad) and racial nationalism (my personal choice, but extraordinarily unpopular in the general public). Most of these people are in the vast category of 'Americans who don't own a passport', so you probably won't encounter them anyways. You personally don't have anything to worry about, since all Americans except for Irish people and hard core Islamophobes love Britain, and South Africa has disappeared entirely from the media/acceptable public discourse ever since Apartheid ended and chaos ensued.


And the miserable state of the world today can directly be traced towards the American "I don't give a fuck" attitude.

These type of people don't create problems for the rest of the world because they are too wrapped up in local and personal issues to bother about what the rest of the world is doing. "Iran is building a nuclear bomb? Whatever! Did you hear the mayor banned a hot dog trailer from near his cousin's restaurant? And my hours got cut at work, WTF!" These type of people have generally opposed American interventionism in foreign countries, including the wars which devastated your country (WWI, and WWII, at least prior to Pearl Harbor, and even after that favoring a strategy which targeted Japan instead of FDR's 'Germany first' policy'). It's the do-gooders, idealists and internationalists you have to watch out for, like Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt.

[stormlord]

The initial premise of the question is a little off. One thing I get a bit tired of is Americans talking about "European" attitudes, as if there is some monolithic whole. Commonly this is done by left wing Americans to disparage their more conservative brethren. Examples include talking about for example, European social attitudes, e.g. their attitude to nudity in the media being less puritan, topless beaches etc. Well here in the UK the beaches are not full of topless women and we have stringent censorship of nudity in film and network television just like America. There's also discussion of how Europeans are more enlightened about welfare; again maybe in Sweden, but that's different to the UK, which is different to France and so on.


As for foreign policy and a "fuck it" attitude as opposed to "Euro pacifism", again there are differences. Countries like Germany and Holland may get hysterical about violence of any kind, but remember America wasn't the only undefeated, uninvaded country in World War II, so the UK is still much more aggressive militarily than other countries in Europe; our supposedly socialist government has been in even more wars than America in the last decade and a bit. Even France, which most Americans probably think has a one man army has a tendency to invade small African countries every couple of years, they just keep it quiet.

[Æmeric]

It's as SotV put it. Most Americans, at those of European descent & especially those of Old Stock, are not that interested in the rest of the world. Most are basically isolationalist at heart. Isolationist is a dirty word as regards to politics since WWII. For some reason the isolationists are responsible for WWII & the 'Holocaust'. :shrug:

Neoconservatism is basically an (ethnic) Jewish philosophy. And the Socialist among the Democratics have a internationalist outlook since at least the Wilson administration.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Here we go, all the keywords: fat, gun, texas, arrested for copyright violations

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090809/ap_on_fe_st/us_odd_fat_hides_gun_11

An obese inmate in Texas has been charged after officials learned he had a gun hidden under flabs of his own flesh.

Twenty-five-year-old George Vera was charged with possession of a firearm in a correctional facility after he told a guard at the Harris County Jail about the unloaded 9mm pistol. The Houston Chronicle reported Thursday that Vera was originally arrested on charges of selling illegal copies of compact discs.

The 500-pound man was searched during his arrest and again at a city jail and the county jail, but officers never found the weapon in his rolls of skin. Vera admitted having the gun during a shower break at the county jail.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Isn't that part of the problem though? Many people elsewhere in the world do not like being treated with contempt.

Americans are the inventors of disposables
Disposable nappies-plates-forks knives-religion-presidents-brains-education-children etc.
Can't say I feel threatened.

[Gooding]

Americans are the inventors of disposables
Disposable nappies-plates-forks knives-religion-presidents-brains-education-children etc.
Can't say I feel threatened.

Of course, it's the open contempt that many in the world display towards Americans that makes many Americans either respond in kind, or withdraw.That's why many of our forebears came to this land in the first place: to leave ancient prejudices behind. The isolationism that many in our country feel has been gained in a harsh manner: we were dragged into World Wars that many of us felt weren't our problem, we had to foot a good part of the bill for many countries, including those of former military enemies, to be reconstructed, fighting wars in Europe and Asia had cost countless Americans their lives. Now, we have people from other lands who've never even been here spouting nonsense about people and politics they have nothing to do with.If an American started remarking on the political hypocrisy of certain governments in Europe, there would be hell to pay.Yet, you've got smug armchair politicos from other countries disparaging the United States and the American people left and right and only Americans, Canadians and some British will defend it.Notice also that usually it's a disgruntled European who'll initiate a barrage of criticism at us, we don't initiate the conflict. I guess it's easy to attack the world's only superpower that has a struggling white majority.Shame on them for such insufferable presumption!

[Tony]

Of course, it's the open contempt that many in the world display towards Americans that makes many Americans either respond in kind, or withdraw.
Regardless what Europeans may think in my view the first who should feel contempt for what America has turn out is you , the whole American principles of individual freedom , right ot happyness , to get rich and so on have been demonstrated to be insufficient in avoding your country from being exploited by the lobbies so there's must have been something wrong since the beginning in the general American system.
Just think of blacks , being capitalistic you have let in millions of blacks , only for the sake of profit and they eventually broke the chain , and after 200 years you're still struggling with them.

Even the USSR didn't let in millions and millions of immigrants , this raises
questions...:rolleyes:

[Jägerstaffel]

And the miserable state of the world today can directly be traced towards the American "I don't give a fuck" attitude.

Yeah, because America is the true cause of everything wrong in the world. That's a hard sell to me.

The "I don't give a fuck" attitude is not towards the world or modern policies; it's towards you and your elitist bullshit attitude.

The point being that it's no skin off my nose if you'd rather spend time around Europeans than Americans. Truthfully, given the attitude that SOME of you display towards the rest of the world - I'd rather hang out with the Americans.

[Phlegethon]

Another American trait is the utter cluelessness about the U.S.'s negative impact on the world as a whole.

[Amarantine]

Some USA people are more close to me, my feelings and lifestyle then some European will be ever.

[Goidelic]

I have a friend who's father is Irish Catholic from Ireland, and his maternal grandparents are also Irish Catholic from Ireland as well. They came over rather recently in the mid 20th century. He visits Ireland frequently, and seems to be more Europeanized, rather than American. In this case he isn't really different despite the fact he was born and raised in America, and holds Irish citizenship.

As for Old Stocks; I believe there is just a cultural difference not a racial difference. The stereotype is that Old Stocks are "mixed race with Amerindian & Negro", which is quite the opposite. They are culturally different because most have been here in the 17th & 18th century in British America and have formed their own unique traditions they are predominantly of old English/British stock, but culturally Anglo-American. Racially, most Old Stocks are similar to British Isles people, some also of Continental Germanic input as well such as Palatine German & French Huguenot, like some British Isles peoples nowadays.

The 19th & 20th century European immigrants to the U.S. such as the Irish, Italians, Hungarians, Montenegrins & Greeks and other Europeans who have preserved their culture, ethnicity for the couple generations I'd argue are more similar to Europeans than some Americans, who have been here much earlier.

[fratelloRocco]

I work with americans any day, I respect hem but our way to do things is different.

They are bureaucratic sometimes even more than we italians are.

[Baron Samedi]

Sounds cliche and very immature for me to say, but we are rebels through and through (and I'm not just talking about the Solid South either.... God bless us all).

American pride is something that has taken quite a beating recently, but the Eagle shall rise from it's nest once again.

[Phlegethon]

I don't see much rebellion in the U.S., but a lot of it in Europe (Italy, Russia, Hungary, Iceland, the Baltic states etc.)

[Tony]

I don't see much rebellion in the U.S., but a lot of it in Europe (Italy, Russia, Hungary, Iceland, the Baltic states etc.)

When invaded Americans just pack and move to a white predominantly suburb/city/county , we Europeans don't have that much space where to escape , we're somewhat force to rebel , rally againts immigration and vote for parties who oppose mass immigration.

[Phlegethon]

Personally I think that the myth of Americans as a rebellious people has no real base in history. OK, there was the Boston Tea Party but whan came thereafter? I do not see the Civil War as a popular rebellion. There were a few strikes, a few bombings, some syndicalists in New York, Boston and Chicago but nothing large-scale.

[Loki]

Personally I think that the myth of Americans as a rebellious people has no real base in history. OK, there was the Boston Tea Party but whan came thereafter? I do not see the Civil War as a popular rebellion. There were a few strikes, a few bombings, some syndicalists in new York, Boston and Chicago but nothing large-scale.

Hey, don't forget about the Buffalo Soldiers! ;)

[Electronic God-Man]

Personally I think that the myth of Americans as a rebellious people has no real base in history. OK, there was the Boston Tea Party but whan came thereafter? I do not see the Civil War as a popular rebellion. There were a few strikes, a few bombings, some syndicalists in new York, Boston and Chicago but nothing large-scale.

I've been to Germany. You guys won't even cross the street when no cars are coming if the light says not to.

[Germanicus]

Heya Wat;

I think one thing that sets folks on my side of the pond apart is we look to our own country first, because of the distance from Europe (and Asia, and Africa, hell, South America, too) and the size of our nation.

We have 24,274,959 square kilometers full of nothing but Americans, essentially.

Sure, we have land borders with 2 other nations, but neither Canada nor Mexico have populations, which (historically) have been of a size to press against those borders in such a manner as the average Joe Six-Pack need be concerned about other folks. It hasn't been until recently, with the alarm over illegals, that most folks have looked at Mexico outside of Acapulco and Cancun.

This insularity does lead to a certain (sometimes large) amount of provincialism. To many men and women of my acquaintance the world is divided into two territories; the United States of America and Not the USA. So many folks here are so ignorant of world geography; Athens is a town in the state of Georgia and Lima (long i) is a town in Ohio.

I've seen "man on the street" interviews where people can not even point out China or Russia on an outline map of the world.

Ignorance of the wider world, that's the big thing.

At last, an American who thinks the same thoughts as me....:thumbs up

[Tony]

Personally I think that the myth of Americans as a rebellious people has no real base in history. OK, there was the Boston Tea Party but whan came thereafter? I do not see the Civil War as a popular rebellion. There were a few strikes, a few bombings, some syndicalists in new York, Boston and Chicago but nothing large-scale.
I think you're trollin too much , first I really never ever heard about this tradition of "rebellism" of Americans , the French are famous for that ;) and second in your analysis you've forgot to mention the 30s , when America were in real turmoil , and also all the great and small , ethnic clashes between whites blacks and other non-whites that date back very early.

[Phlegethon]

I've been to Germany. You guys won't even cross the street when no cars are coming if the light says not to.

So? It is not us claiming to be rebels. Actually we had our share of revolutions (1848, 1919, 1953, 1989). The French had theirs, the Italians had Garibaldi, Spain had a massive civil war, Britain had her civil war and most other European countries as well. So if I compare Europe to America I hardly see anything revolutionary on the American side.

[Piparskeggr]

At last, an American who thinks the same thoughts as me....:thumbs up

Just because my eyesight is fading as I get older, doesn't mean I can't make out the man in the mirror :wink

[Electronic God-Man]

So? It is not us claiming to be rebels. Actually we had our share of revolutions (1848, 1919, 1953, 1989). The French had theirs, the Italians had Garibaldi, Spain had a massive civil war, Britain had her civil war and most other European countries as well. So if I compare Europe to America I hardly see anything revolutionary on the American side.

You talked about Americans not being rebels on a large-scale. I was implying that Germans (and other Europeans) are not even "rebels" on a small-scale. I think Americans get the stereotype of being rebels because of the small-scale and not the large-scale (US Revolution).

[Æmeric]

The 48 contiguous states cover just under 3 million sqm (7.777 million km2). We've been accustomed to being able to travel long distances without a passport. There are many welltraveled Americans who have never left the US. France is smaller then Texas. North Carolina is slightly larger then England. We've always had this vastness. Also we have a very low population density compared to Europe. California has a density of 234 per sq mi (90 per km2), low compared to Western Europe. Most states have a density less then California, the Northeast being an exception (Massachusetts has a density of 80 per sq mi, New Jersey 1130). The difference in land area & density has contributed to differences in lifestyle between Americans & Europeans, particularly in the car culture in America.

[Phlegethon]

You talked about Americans not being rebels on a large-scale. I was implying that Germans (and other Europeans) are not even "rebels" on a small-scale.

And I posted several examples that prove you wrong.

[Óttar]

I've seen "man on the street" interviews where people can not even point out China or Russia on an outline map of the world.

Ignorance of the wider world, that's the big thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONCrE4IoSsY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_mkwB9ayK4
True, he didn't ask them much pertaining to geography, but the people still seem like they live in a cave, and I bet they couldn't point out Iran or N. Korea.

[Electronic God-Man]

And I posted several examples that prove you wrong.

Every country has had a revolution or a civil war. I meant on a personal, day-to-day level.

[Ulf]

I've seen "man on the street" interviews where people can not even point out China or Russia on an outline map of the world.

Ignorance of the wider world, that's the big thing.

In these instances we should take into account editing. How many people did they have to ask until they came across the really dumb ones? There are stupid people everywhere, but they won't show the ones who aced their geography test. Also many people will get flustered by being put on the spot and just point to something quick rather than look slow in taking the time to actually think.

[Phlegethon]

Really? You could wake me up in the middle of the night and still I could pick every country in the world on a globe within three seconds. And geography was probably my weakest subject in school besides maths.

[Ulf]

Really? You could wake me up in the middle of the night and still I could pick every country in the world on a globe within three seconds. And geography was probably my weakest subject in school besides maths.

Prove it.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2009
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1694

[Phlegethon]

Done. Where's my prize? ;)

But I have an advantage. I had a massive globe on my desk when I still used to play world domination. ;)

[Jägerstaffel]

Pathetic troll.

[Phlegethon]

Yankee.

[Jägerstaffel]

Proud to be it.

[Phlegethon]

Only resort if there is nothing else to be.

[Gooding]

Ignore lists are awesome, Jäger!!:D Why worry about ad hominems from certain posters when they can just become sidebars?:P

[Ulf]

You're all Mongoloids in the eyes of the Deitsch.

[Gooding]

Or merely peasants in the eyes of the European nobility that fled here during those European squabbles while the chaff remained behind..:D

[Ulf]

Done. Where's my prize? ;)

But I have an advantage. I had a massive globe on my desk when I still used to play world domination. ;)

But what was your score? I have no doubt in your ability to put the countries where they need to be but I was more focused upon your claim of speed. And as your score reflects the speed and precision with which you accomplish the task, I am not impressed with just having finished it.

[Aemma]

Knock off the shit Boys! :coffee:

Keep it on topic ok?

[Phlegethon]

But what was your score? I have no doubt in your ability to put the countries where they need to be but I was more focused upon your claim of speed.

The first test was simply U.S. states and thus did not apply. The second test required some kind of download which was a bit too much effort. I said I could identify countries on a globe - not drag and drop signs on a map. Multiple choice even allows you to score a few points even if you do not have a clue, that is why we do not have multiple choice tests around here. Here you have to fill in the gaps. And that is what I can do.

[Gooding]

Quite right, Aemma!**lowers testosterone bazooka** One thing Americans and Europeans do have in common is the ability to raise things to a fever pitch..This started as explaining differences and similarities between Americans and Europeans and some unnamed scheissenkopf decided to make it a "why Europeans are better than Americans" thread and the arguments began. Off topic ad homs and bleating superiority is one reason why so many of the Old Guard have left. Well, when online net trolls go extinct, they certainly won't be missed.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Of course, it's the open contempt that many in the world display towards Americans that makes many Americans either respond in kind, or withdraw.That's why many of our forebears came to this land in the first place: to leave ancient prejudices behind. The isolationism that many in our country feel has been gained in a harsh manner: we were dragged into World Wars that many of us felt weren't our problem, we had to foot a good part of the bill for many countries, including those of former military enemies, to be reconstructed, fighting wars in Europe and Asia had cost countless Americans their lives. Now, we have people from other lands who've never even been here spouting nonsense about people and politics they have nothing to do with.If an American started remarking on the political hypocrisy of certain governments in Europe, there would be hell to pay.Yet, you've got smug armchair politicos from other countries disparaging the United States and the American people left and right and only Americans, Canadians and some British will defend it.Notice also that usually it's a disgruntled European who'll initiate a barrage of criticism at us, we don't initiate the conflict. I guess it's easy to attack the world's only superpower that has a struggling white majority.Shame on them for such insufferable presumption!

Well said Gooding, but every country in the West has a struggling white majority
Europe was grateful to America-Australia-Canada and Gibraltar:thumbs up for its fight against the Japs and Hitler.
You have lost the creme of the crop of young men and women.
My question is HOW LONG must we stay thankful.
How long must we accept American crap cultural "inventions' and media lies.
How long must CNN-SKY(British)-BBCW-EUnet-spew utter liberal multi culture crap.(Was it not for America,Europe would never have allowed cornheads and other doggie pooh from Africa-Asia to settle)
America feels hurt. I understand,and you could have done better with these souls than just die in Europe or Asia.
Again I ask who did away with the Monroe doctrine
Europe has contributed enough to America and thanked America.
America now seem to adopt a Jewish attitude" Europe,remember the 6.000.000 you murdered, so pay and pay and pay.

In both cases,when is enough really enough and when will a positive European attitude to both, become an outright antipathy.
It is happening right now.

[Equinox]

I've been to Germany. You guys won't even cross the street when no cars are coming if the light says not to.

Is this a bad thing? I see this as something remaining from the world of Tradition, where rules were rules to be obeyed, not to be questioned.

[Phlegethon]

And we also want to give a good example to children around us. Adult jaywalkers undermine parents' educational efforts.

[Tony]

Well said Gooding, but every country in the West has a struggling white majority
Europe was grateful to America-Australia-Canada and Gibraltar:thumbs up for its fight against the Japs and Hitler.
http://i29.tinypic.com/33254w0.jpg
Don't use pluralis majestatis , you're speaking for yourself , there's a lot of people who never wanted that intervention , by entering the war USA took side with the commies too , and moreover they broke the ongoing nazi-fascist unification of Europe , not to mention the losses of colonial empires.
Grateful this arse , the Jewish-American intervention has been the ruin of Europe.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Even the USSR didn't let in millions and millions of immigrants , this raises
questions...:rolleyes:

Who would want to move there? They were arresting and shooting people who wanted to keep them from leaving.


Another American trait is the utter cluelessness about the U.S.'s negative impact on the world as a whole.

More of a 'just not caring'. How would you feel, if at age 37 someone made a huge bitch complaint about you throwing a spitwad in third grade? That's the feeling people have when they hear a huge bitch complaint about some President they didn't even vote for, or maybe did but for domestic policies.


Personally I think that the myth of Americans as a rebellious people has no real base in history. OK, there was the Boston Tea Party but whan came thereafter? I do not see the Civil War as a popular rebellion. There were a few strikes, a few bombings, some syndicalists in New York, Boston and Chicago but nothing large-scale.


So? It is not us claiming to be rebels. Actually we had our share of revolutions (1848, 1919, 1953, 1989). The French had theirs, the Italians had Garibaldi, Spain had a massive civil war, Britain had her civil war and most other European countries as well. So if I compare Europe to America I hardly see anything revolutionary on the American side.

That's the main point of Democracy and Republics, to prevent violent revolution, because any new ideology which manages to catch popular attention can just gain power by being voted in.

Germany's revolutions were by groups which could not be democratically elected, because democracy did not exist in the Germany of 1948 or the wildly misnamed Deutsche "Demokratische Republik" of 1953 and 1989, and the communist uprising in 1919 was by a violent minority.

The revolutions in the US, like anywhere else, follow the same pattern:

Minority groups that can't hope to be elected anywhere near the majority:

Shay's Rebellion (rural revolt in Massachusetts against taxes on whiskey) right after the country was formed

The 'militia movement' of the 1990s, which ended after a German national and SPLC operative named Andreas Stassmeir enticed a couple other dudes into blowing up a government building in 1995.

The lower population southern states after the 1960 election, and again in an IRA style 'terrorist' resistance in the 1960s after federal attempts to remove state pro-white laws.


Groups excluded from voting:

Non-landowners, including many Irish Catholic immigrants, in Rhode Island in 1841.

Blacks, especially during the 1960s with support for their cause from liberal/marxist/jewish groups.

[Gooding]

Well said Gooding, but every country in the West has a struggling white majority
Europe was grateful to America-Australia-Canada and Gibraltar:thumbs up for its fight against the Japs and Hitler.
You have lost the creme of the crop of young men and women.
My question is HOW LONG must we stay thankful.
How long must we accept American crap cultural "inventions' and media lies.
How long must CNN-SKY(British)-BBCW-EUnet-spew utter liberal multi culture crap.(Was it not for America,Europe would never have allowed cornheads and other doggie pooh from Africa-Asia to settle)
America feels hurt. I understand,and you could have done better with these souls than just die in Europe or Asia.
Again I ask who did away with the Monroe doctrine
Europe has contributed enough to America and thanked America.
America now seem to adopt a Jewish attitude" Europe,remember the 6.000.000 you murdered, so pay and pay and pay.

In both cases,when is enough really enough and when will a positive European attitude to both, become an outright antipathy.
It is happening right now.

I'm aware of how thankful the European governments and people have been to the United States and I appreciate that.:thumb001: I'm just saying that we've earned as a people the same right to be respected that every other people have.I don't believe my own media 99.99% of the time, so why would I expect anyone else to? I've stated time and again that after the Civil War, the Negroes needed to be resettled somewhere far from us.Americans readily thank Europeans for their contributions to American society and in return we find ourselves sadly stunned by the contempt that former allies and friends show us.My government and its policies doesn't represent me and it hasn't for decades. I don't verbally attack an Englishman because of Tony Blair, or call an Austrian a racist because Hitler happened to have come from Austria. I value research.Before coming onto this board, I was woefully ignorant of Canada, so I asked Aemma, V.A., and Loyalist questions about their country and researched it for myself. Those three people are fantastic people and I'm honored to be acquainted with them.Thanks to them, I know more of Canada now than I did. Sure there are popular rumors about various lands, but that's elitist bullshit designed to make people usually pissed off about something else feel better about their own lives. If we're going to be treated like pariahs, maybe the Monroe Doctrine should be reenacted and we should stay out of the affairs of other nations and damn to hell any of their neighbors if they feel threatened.They're better than us anyway, so they don't need our weapons, manpower or counsel.We were bombed once and now two nations have been destroyed for it.We've displayed our strength and now maybe we need to work on funnelling our wealth to our own people.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

http://i29.tinypic.com/33254w0.jpg
Don't use pluralis majestatis , you're speaking for yourself , there's a lot of people who never wanted that intervention , by entering the war USA took side with the commies too , and moreover they broke the ongoing nazi-fascist unification of Europe , not to mention the losses of colonial empires.
Grateful this arse , the Jewish-American intervention has been the ruin of Europe.

You are hilariously funny.
Think again,think McCain,-------French fries eats better with battered
Hake from Holland then with a ribald Austrian Schicklgruber(Shekel-Gruben) Liederjan.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

I'm aware of how thankful the European governments and people have been to the United States and I appreciate that.:thumb001: I'm just saying that we've earned as a people the same right to be respected that every other people have.I don't believe my own media 99.99% of the time, so why would I expect anyone else to? I've stated time and again that after the Civil War, the Negroes needed to be resettle somewhere far from us.Americans readily thank Europeans for their contributions to American society and in return we find ourselves sadly stunned by the contempt that former allies and friends show us.My government and its policies doesn't represent me and it hasn't for decades. I don't verbally attack an Englishman because of Tony Blair, or call an Austrian a racist because Hitler happened to have come from Austria. I value research.Before coming onto this board, I was woefully ignorant of Canada, so I asked Aemma, V.A., and Loyalist questions about their country and researched it for myself. Those three people are fantastic people and I'm honored to be acquainted with them.Thanks to them, I know more of Canada now than I did. Sure there are popular rumors about various lands, but that's elitist bullshit designed to make people usually pissed off about something else feel better about their own lives. If we're going to be treated like pariahs, maybe the Monroe Doctrine should be reenacted and we should stay out of the affairs of other nations and damn to hell any of their neighbors if they feel threatened.They're better than us anyway, so they don't need our weapons, manpower or counsel.We were bombed once and now two nations have been destroyed for it.We've displayed our strength and now maybe we need to work on funnelling our wealth to our own people.

Point taken

[lei.talk]

You guys won't even cross the street when no cars are coming
if the light says not to.if, from a system-failure,
they were presented with a green-light
while cross-traffic continued through the intersection... :icon1:

[Tony]

You are hilariously funny.
Think again,think McCain,-------French fries eats better with battered
Hake from Holland then with a ribald Austrian Schicklgruber(Shekel-Gruben) Liederjan.
Whatta hell are you on crack??

enjoy the liberal democracy , the pedo society and you muslim friends who are turning Holland into a islamicized country then.

[The Lawspeaker]

Whatta hell are you on crack??

enjoy the liberal democracy , the pedo society and you muslim friends who are turning Holland into a islamicized country then.
He isn't even Dutch. He is a deserter lol- or the child of deserters who ran away as quickly as they could from a country that was blown to pieces but needed them. And frankly- I think that someone from abroad that is still flying our noble flag is an eyesore.

The thing that we call American culture and that damages our society--- isn't.
I learned that one in my dealings with Americans. The image of "American"-styled commercials and Hollywood is as American in origins as bagels and kashrut and is just commercial culture whereas the real American culture which is found amongst millions of normal Americans is actually something that we could use in Europe. They are a lot closer to original European culture then we are. And that combined with a healthy doses of rebellion and a lust to be free.

[Phlegethon]

You'll burn at the stake, heretic!

[The Lawspeaker]

You'll burn at the stake, heretic!
Nice. And they better do it right: I want me to be well done. :rolleyes::D

[Phlegethon]

You'll be Calvinist Coal. ;)

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Whatta hell are you on crack??

enjoy the liberal democracy , the pedo society and you muslim friends who are turning Holland into a islamicized country then.

Originally Posted by Tony http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=80183#post80183)
http://i29.tinypic.com/33254w0.jpg

{posted by Tony}Don't use pluralis majestatis , you're speaking for yourself , there's a lot of people who never wanted that intervention , by entering the war USA took side with the commies too , and moreover they broke the ongoing nazi-fascist unification of Europe , not to mention the losses of colonial empires.
Grateful this arse , the Jewish-American intervention has been the ruin of Europe.

I am on crackerjack with a crack-brain answering a crackpot with a cracker answering his crack-jaw crackle


1.USA took sides with the commies.
I love it when an IT(Degorative for Italian)fascist does not know history.

On 23 August, 1939, Russia and Germany signed suddenly a 'Non-aggression Pact'.
Iin addition, the two countries had made a number of a 'secret protocol' agreeing <o:p>to 'spheres of influence' in Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania and Poland.<o:p> It amounted to an agreement to invade and divide the countries of eastern Europe between them ... with Poland first on the list. Eat your heart out crackling.</o:p></o:p>

<o:p><o:p></o:p></o:p>
<o:p><o:p>2.Hitler's Untermenschen.:lightbul::lightbul::lightbul::light bul::lightbul:</o:p></o:p>
that is Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews), Gypsies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people), Poles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles) along with other Slavic people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_people) like the Russians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians), Ukrainians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians) and anyone else who was not an "Aryan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race)" according to the contemporary Nazi race terminology. The German word Mensch literally means human.
Slavic peoples are classified geographically and linguistically into West Slavic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Slavs) (including Czechs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechs), Kashubians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashubians), Moravians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravians_%28ethnic_group%29), Poles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles), Silesians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesians), Slovaks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovaks) and Sorbs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbs)), East Slavic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Slavs) (including Belarusians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarusians), Russians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians), Rusyns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyns) and Ukrainians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians)), and South Slavic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Slavs) (including Bosniaks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosniaks), Bulgarians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarians), Croats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croats), Macedonians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_%28ethnic_group%29), Montenegrins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegrins), Serbs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbs) and Slovenes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenes)). For a more comprehensive list,


Loki and Foxilious(sorry,my tongue twists again)close the doors,the Untermenschen are coming.,but wait Pussilini the IT agreed.


3.Civilian deaths by country.,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties



3.Civilian deaths by country.,


<table id="sortable_table_id_0" class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align: right;"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#cccccc"><th style="background: rgb(176, 196, 222) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; text-align: left; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Country http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#)</th> <th style="background: rgb(176, 196, 222) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Population 1939 http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#)</th> <th style="background: rgb(176, 196, 222) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Military deaths http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#)</th> <th style="background: rgb(176, 196, 222) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Civilian deaths http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#)</th> <th style="background: rgb(176, 196, 222) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Jewish Holocaust deaths http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#)</th> <th style="background: rgb(176, 196, 222) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Total deaths http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#)</th> <th style="background: rgb(176, 196, 222) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Deaths as % of 1939 population http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#)</th> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/Flag_of_Albania_%281939%29.svg/22px-Flag_of_Albania_%281939%29.svg.png Albania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Albania">[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Albania)</sup></td> <td>1,073,000</td> <td>30,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>200</td> <td>30,200</td> <td>2.81%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/22px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Australia">[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Australia)</sup></td> <td>6,998,000</td> <td>40,500</td> <td>700</td> <td>
</td> <td>41,200</td> <td>0.57%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Flag_of_Austria.svg/22px-Flag_of_Austria.svg.png Austria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Austria">[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Austria)</sup></td> <td>6,653,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>58,700</td> <td>65,000</td> <td>123,700</td> <td>see table below</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Flag_of_Belgium_%28civil%29.svg/22px-Flag_of_Belgium_%28civil%29.svg.png Belgium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Belgium">[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Belgium)</sup></td> <td>8,387,000</td> <td>12,100</td> <td>49,600</td> <td>24,400</td> <td>86,100</td> <td>1.02%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/Flag_of_Brazil_%281889-1960%29.svg/22px-Flag_of_Brazil_%281889-1960%29.svg.png Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Brazil">[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Brazil)</sup></td> <td>40,289,000</td> <td>1,000</td> <td>1,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>2,000</td> <td>0.00%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Flag_of_Bulgaria.svg/22px-Flag_of_Bulgaria.svg.png Bulgaria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Bulgaria">[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Bulgaria)</sup></td> <td>6,458,000</td> <td>22,000</td> <td>3,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>25,000</td> <td>0.38%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>272,000</td> <td>1.16%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Flag_of_Canada_1921.svg/22px-Flag_of_Canada_1921.svg.png Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Canada">[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Canada)</sup></td> <td>11,267,000</td> <td>45,300</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>45,300</td> <td>0.40%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>1.93% to 3.86%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Flag_of_Czechoslovakia.svg/22px-Flag_of_Czechoslovakia.svg.png Czechoslovakia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovakia)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Czechoslovakia">[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Czechoslovakia)</sup></td> <td>15,300,000</td> <td>25,000</td> <td>43,000</td> <td>277,000</td> <td>345,000</td> <td>2.25%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Flag_of_Denmark.svg/22px-Flag_of_Denmark.svg.png Denmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Denmark">[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Denmark)</sup></td> <td>3,795,000</td> <td>2,100</td> <td>1,000</td> <td>100</td> <td>3,200</td> <td>0.08%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/Flag_of_Estonia.svg/22px-Flag_of_Estonia.svg.png Estonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonia)1939 Borders<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Estonia">[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Estonia)</sup></td> <td>1,134,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>50,000</td> <td>1,000</td> <td>51,000</td> <td>4.50%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Flag_of_Finland.svg/22px-Flag_of_Finland.svg.png Finland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Finland">[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Finland)</sup></td> <td>3,700,000</td> <td>95,000</td> <td>2,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>97,000</td> <td>2.62%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Flag_of_France.svg/22px-Flag_of_France.svg.png France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_France">[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_France)</sup></td> <td>41,700,000</td> <td>217,600</td> <td>267,000</td> <td>83,000</td> <td>567,600</td> <td>1.35%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Flag_of_Germany_1933.svg/22px-Flag_of_Germany_1933.svg.png Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Germany">[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Germany)</sup></td> <td>69,623,000</td> <td>5,533,000</td> <td>840,000 to 2,800,000</td> <td>160,000</td> <td>6,793,000 to 8,493,000</td> <td>see table below</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Flag_of_Greece_%281828-1978%29.svg/22px-Flag_of_Greece_%281828-1978%29.svg.png Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Greece">[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Greece)</sup></td> <td>7,222,000</td> <td>20,000</td> <td>220,000</td> <td>71,300</td> <td>311,300</td> <td>4.31%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Flag_of_Hungary_1940.svg/22px-Flag_of_Hungary_1940.svg.png Hungary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Hungary">[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Hungary)</sup></td> <td>9,129,000</td> <td>300,000</td> <td>80,000</td> <td>200,000</td> <td>580,000</td> <td>6.35%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Flag_of_Iceland.svg/22px-Flag_of_Iceland.svg.png Iceland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Iceland">[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Iceland)</sup></td> <td>119,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>200</td> <td>
</td> <td>200</td> <td>0.17%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
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</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Flag_of_Ireland.svg/22px-Flag_of_Ireland.svg.png Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Ireland">[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Ireland)</sup></td> <td>2,960,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>200</td> <td>
</td> <td>200</td> <td>0.00%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ad/Flag_of_Italy_%281861-1946%29.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy_%281861-1946%29.svg.png Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Italy">[27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Italy)</sup></td> <td>44,394,000</td> <td>301,400</td> <td>145,100</td> <td>8,000</td> <td>454,500</td> <td>1.02%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Flag_of_Latvia.svg/22px-Flag_of_Latvia.svg.png Latvia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvia)1939 Borders<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Latvia">[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Latvia)</sup></td> <td>1,995,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>147,000</td> <td>80,000</td> <td>227,000</td> <td>11.38%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Flag_of_Lithuania_1918-1940.svg/22px-Flag_of_Lithuania_1918-1940.svg.png Lithuania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuania)1939 Borders<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Lithuania">[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Lithuania)</sup></td> <td>2,575,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>212,000</td> <td>141,000</td> <td>353,000</td> <td>13.71%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Flag_of_Luxembourg.svg/22px-Flag_of_Luxembourg.svg.png Luxembourg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Lux">[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Lux)</sup></td> <td>295,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>1,300</td> <td>700</td> <td>2,000</td> <td>0.68%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td><td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
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</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg.png Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Netherlands">[38] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Netherlands)</sup></td> <td>8,729,000</td> <td>21,000</td> <td>176,000</td> <td>104,000</td> <td>301,000</td> <td>3.44%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
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</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Flag_of_Norway.svg/22px-Flag_of_Norway.svg.png Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_NOR">[41] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_NOR)</sup></td> <td>2,945,000</td> <td>3,000</td> <td>5,800</td> <td>700</td> <td>9,500</td> <td>0.32%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
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</td> <td>
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</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Flag_of_Poland.svg/22px-Flag_of_Poland.svg.png Poland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland)1939 Borders<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Poland">[44] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Poland)</sup></td> <td>34,849,000</td> <td>240,000</td> <td>1,760,000 to 2,760,000</td> <td>3,000,000</td> <td>5,000,000 to 6,000,000</td> <td>14.3% to 17.2%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Flag_of_Romania.svg/22px-Flag_of_Romania.svg.png Romania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania)1939 Borders<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Romania">[46] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Romania)</sup></td> <td>19,934,000</td> <td>300,000</td> <td>64,000</td> <td>469,000</td> <td>833,000</td> <td>4.22%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
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</td> <td>
</td> <td>
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</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Flag_of_the_Soviet_Union.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_Soviet_Union.svg.png Soviet Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union)See Table Below<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_USSR">[50] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_USSR)</sup></td> <td>168,500,000</td> <td>8,800,000 to 10,700,000</td> <td>14,154,000 to 12,254,000</td> <td>1,000,000</td> <td>23,954,000</td> <td>14.18%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Flag_of_Spain_1945_1977.svg/22px-Flag_of_Spain_1945_1977.svg.png Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Spain">[51] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Spain)</sup></td> <td>25,637,000</td> <td>4,500</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>4,500</td> <td>0.02%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Flag_of_Sweden.svg/22px-Flag_of_Sweden.svg.png Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Sweden">[52] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Sweden)</sup></td> <td>6,341,000</td> <td>200</td> <td>2,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>2,200</td> <td>0.03%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Flag_of_Switzerland.svg/20px-Flag_of_Switzerland.svg.png Switzerland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Switzerland">[53] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Switzerland)</sup></td> <td>4,210,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>100</td> <td>
</td> <td>100</td> <td>0.00%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_UK">[55] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_UK)</sup></td> <td>47,760,000</td> <td>382,700</td> <td>67,100</td> <td>
</td> <td>449,800</td> <td>0.94%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Flag_of_SFR_Yugoslavia.svg/22px-Flag_of_SFR_Yugoslavia.svg.png Yugoslavia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia)<sup class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion" id="ref_Yugo">[57] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#endnote_Yugo)</sup></td> <td>15,400,000</td> <td>446,000</td> <td>514,000</td> <td>67,000</td> <td>1,027,000</td> <td>6.67%</td> </tr> <tr class="sortbottom"> <td align="left">Totals</td> <td>1,963,205,000</td> <td>21,582,100 to 25,482,100</td> <td>34,514,100 to 46,6044,100</td> <td>5,752,400</td> <td>61,798,600 to 77,788,600</td> <td>3.71% to 3.96%</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table id="collapsibleTable1" class="toccolours collapsible" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <th>[hide (javascript:collapseTable(1);)] <center>Human Losses of The Third Reich in World War Two (Included in above figures)</center> </th> </tr> <tr> <td> <table id="sortable_table_id_1" class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align: right;"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <th style="background: rgb(176, 196, 222) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; text-align: left; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"> http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#)</th> <th style="background: rgb(176, 196, 222) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Total Population 1939 http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#)</th> <th style="background: rgb(176, 196, 222) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Military Deaths http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#)</th> <th style="background: rgb(176, 196, 222) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Civilian Deaths http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#)</th> <th style="background: rgb(176, 196, 222) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Jewish Holocaust Deaths http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#)</th> <th style="background: rgb(176, 196, 222) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Total deaths http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#)</th> <th style="background: rgb(176, 196, 222) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">% Population http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#)</th> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">Austria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria)</td> <td>6,653,000</td> <td>261,000</td> <td>58,700</td> <td>65,000</td> <td>384,700</td> <td>5.8%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) 1937 Borders</td> <td>69,623,000</td> <td>4,456,000</td> <td>840,000 to 1,940,000</td> <td>160,000</td> <td>5,646,000 to 6,556,000</td> <td>7.8% to 9.4 %</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">Ethnic Germans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Germans) other nations</td> <td>6,912,000</td> <td>601,000</td> <td>100,000 to 730,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>701,000 to 1,331,000</td> <td>10.0% to 19.2%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">Soviet citizens in the German Military</td> <td>800,000</td> <td>215,000</td> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> <td>215,000</td> <td>26.9%</td> </tr> <tr class="sortbottom"> <td align="left">Totals</td> <td>83,988,000</td> <td>5,533,000</td> <td>998,700 to 2,728,700</td> <td>225,000</td> <td>6,756,700 to 8,456,700</td> <td>8.04% to 10.1%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">Sources: See Footnotes for Germany and Austria

You say Hitler was Unifying?????????????????????
What a load of crap even from you.

Look if you want to argue,go back to school first
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table id="collapsibleTable2" class="toccolours collapsible" width="100%"><tbody><tr> <th>
</th></tr><tr><td><table id="sortable_table_id_2" class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align: right;" height="410" width="607"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#cccccc"><td valign="top">
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<o:p><o:p></o:p></o:p>
<o:p><o:p>
</o:p></o:p>

[Lulletje Rozewater]

He isn't even Dutch. He is a deserter lol- or the child of deserters who ran away as quickly as they could from a country that was blown to pieces but needed them. And frankly- I think that someone from abroad that is still flying our noble flag is an eyesore.


Spuit 11 geeft ook modder

I am sure you do not want me to answer that,kereltje.
You could be very surprised and frankly rather embarrassed with my answer.
So shush little man,go back to your corner,and play hide and seek with
your Computer.

[The Lawspeaker]

Spuit 11 geeft ook modder

I am sure you do not want me to answer that,kereltje.
You could be very surprised and frankly rather embarrassed with my answer.
So shush little man,go back to your corner,and play hide and seek with
your Computer.

You shouldn't fly our flag. Where were you living ? South Africa ! And what you post actually made a mockery out of our country.

[Vulpix]

Calm down everyone please.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

You shouldn't fly our flag. Where were you living ? South Africa ! And what you post actually made a mockery out of our country.

I am still living in South Africa and have a dual passport.
On average I live 4 months a year in Holland to teach the Dutch some manners and make a number of big businesses richer than before.
Besides that if Shell has a Dutch flag in Naaigeria,why can't I.
Ik wapper de Nederlandse flag op mijn auto Just in case a Dutchie is stranded. The flag is more or less similar to the previous South African flag.(Oranje-Blanje_bleu)

http://i32.tinypic.com/15hd95f.jpg


What mockery??????


Fjällräv--------- I am calm,but extremely calculated.
When I show anger(I was once see Brian Foley) I throw the book at the attacking person.Not just words like kereltje(little man)

[Inese]

You'll burn at the stake, heretic!
And you can burn like a steak , lol!! :lightbul:

I like Americans but they should not try to have much influence on Europe.

[Gooding]

Here are the others..


[hide]Human Losses of World War Two by Country
Country Population 1939 Military deaths Civilian deaths Jewish Holocaust deaths Total deaths Deaths as % of 1939 population
Albania[1] 1,073,000 30,000 200 30,200 2.81%
Australia[2] 6,998,000 40,500 700 41,200 0.57% Austria[3] 6,653,000 58,700 65,000 123,700 see table below
Belgium[4] 8,387,000 12,100 49,600 24,400 86,100 1.02%
Brazil[5] 40,289,000 1,000 1,000 2,000 0.00%
Bulgaria[6] 6,458,000 22,000 3,000 25,000 0.38%
Burma[7] 16,119,000 22,000 250,000 272,000 1.16%
Canada[8] 11,267,000 45,300 45,300 0.40%
China[9] 517,568,000 3,000,000 to 4,000,000 7,000,000 to 16,000,000 10,000,000 to 20,000,000 1.93% to 3.86%
Cuba[10] 4,235,000 100 100 0.00%
Czechoslovakia[11] 15,300,000 25,000 43,000 277,000 345,000 2.25%
Denmark[12] 3,795,000 2,100 1,000 100 3,200 0.08%
Dutch East Indies[13] 69,435,000 3,030,000 to 4,030,000 3,030,000 to 4,030,000 4.3% to 5.76%
Estonia1939 Borders[14] 1,134,000 50,000 1,000 51,000 4.50%
Ethiopia[15] 17,700,000 5,000 95,000 100,000 0.6%
Finland[16] 3,700,000 95,000 2,000 97,000 2.62%
France[17] 41,700,000 217,600 267,000 83,000 567,600 1.35%
French Indochina[18] 24,600,000 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 4.07% to 6.1%
Germany[19] 69,623,000 5,533,000 840,000 to 2,800,000 160,000 6,793,000 to 8,493,000 see table below
Greece[20] 7,222,000 20,000 220,000 71,300 311,300 4.31%
Hungary[21] 9,129,000 300,000 80,000 200,000 580,000 6.35%
Iceland[22] 119,000 200 200 0.17%
India [23] 378,000,000 87,000 1,500,000 to 2,500,000 1,587,000 to 2,587,000 0.43% to .057%
Iran[24] 14,340,000 200 200 0.00%
Iraq[25] 3,698,000 1,000 1,000 0.03%
Ireland[26] 2,960,000 200 200 0.00%
Italy[27] 44,394,000 301,400 145,100 8,000 454,500 1.02%
Japan[28] 71,380,000 2,120,000 580,000 2,700,000 3.78%
Korea[29] 23,400,000 378,000 to 533,000 378,000 to 533,000 1.6% to 2.3 %
Latvia1939 Borders[30] 1,995,000 147,000 80,000 227,000 11.38%
Lithuania1939 Borders[31] 2,575,000 212,000 141,000 353,000 13.71%
Luxembourg[32] 295,000 1,300 700 2,000 0.68%
Malaya[33] 4,391,000 100,000 100,000 2.28%
Malta[34] 269,000 1,500 1,500 0.56%
Mexico[35] 19,320,000 100 100 0.00%
Mongolia[36] 819,000 300 300 0.04%
Nauru[37] 3,400 500 500 14.7%
Netherlands[38] 8,729,000 21,000 176,000 104,000 301,000 3.44%
Newfoundland[39] 300,000 1,000 100 1,100 0.37%
New Zealand[40] 1,629,000 11,900 11,900 0.1%
Norway[41] 2,945,000 3,000 5,800 700 9,500 0.32%
Papua and New Guinea [42] 1,292,000 15,000 15,000 1.17%
Philippines[43] 16,000,000 57,000 500,000 to 1,000,000 557,000 to 1,057,000 3.48% to 6.6%
Poland1939 Borders[44] 34,849,000 240,000 1,760,000 to 2,760,000 3,000,000 5,000,000 to 6,000,000 14.3% to 17.2%
Portuguese Timor[45] 500,000 40,000 to 70,000 40,000 to 70,000 8.00% to 14.00%
Romania1939 Borders[46] 19,934,000 300,000 64,000 469,000 833,000 4.22%
Singapore[47] 728,000 50,000 50,000 6.87%
South Africa[48] 10,160,000 11,900 11,900 0.12%
South Pacific Mandate[49] 1,900,000 57,000 57,000 3.00%
Soviet UnionSee Table Below[50] 168,500,000 8,800,000 to 10,700,000 14,154,000 to 12,254,000 1,000,000 23,954,000 14.18%
Spain[51] 25,637,000 4,500 4,500 0.02%
Sweden[52] 6,341,000 200 2,000 2,200 0.03%
Switzerland[53] 4,210,000 100 100 0.00%
Thailand[54] 15,023,000 5,600 300 5,900 0.04%
United Kingdom[55] 47,760,000 382,700 67,100 449,800 0.94%
United States[56] 131,028,000 416,800 1,700 418,500 0.32%
Yugoslavia[57] 15,400,000 446,000 514,000 67,000 1,027,000 6.67%
Totals 1,963,205,000 21,582,100 to 25,482,100 34,514,100 to 46,6044,100 5,752,400 61,798,600 to 77,788,600 3.71% to 3.96% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

[SwordoftheVistula]

The city once known as 'New Amsterdam' still flies the Oranje-Blanje-Blauw :thumb001:

http://www.flags-and-anthems.com/media/flags/flag-new-york-city.gif

[Lulletje Rozewater]

The city once known as 'New Amsterdam' still flies the Oranje-Blanje-Blauw :thumb001:

http://www.flags-and-anthems.com/media/flags/flag-new-york-city.gif
That is information I did not know,nice:):)

[lei.talk]

In every society there are jobs that are not so glamorous that have to be done by someone. Like street sweeping, toilet cleaning, baristas at coffee shops, etc.
It doesn't mean these people work less hard than those who command high salaries.
They are just incapable of achieving more in life by limiting factors such as genetics. The Bell Curve is a reality.
We can't all be geniuses who start up businesses and become millionaires.

these are entry-level jobs for the yet-to-be-educated - not careers:
this is the work one does
untill acquiring a profession/vocation/education
(the ecdysiast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecdysiast) working her way through law-school).
once again, physical effort does not - necessarily - equal productivity:
the person that invested the extra effort
to acquire knowledge/skill - works smarter
than the person that has yet to do so
and earns more
for the investment, efficacious effort and productivity.
of course they can be more productive:
they need vocational training
and the tools to amplify their efforts.

few individuals are so retarded or damaged
that capitalism (http://www.capitalism.net/Capitalism/CAPITALISM_Internet.pdf) does not magnify their productivity
beyond their own limited imagination.

those that are completely useless
enjoy the munificent charity of a surplus
which only capitalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism) may provide.
:tsk: "nattering nabobs of negativism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Safire)" :tsk:
genius is not required
to understand the difference between spending and saving (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_Accumulator_of_Wealth).
does the united states have this many geniuses: there are an estimated 27.2 millions of small business (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_business)es in the united states
representing 99.7 percent of all employer firms
employing about half (57.4 millions) of the country’s private sector workforce
hiring 40 percent of high tech workers,
such as scientists, engineers and computer workers
including 52 percent home-based businesses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_business) and two percent franchises (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchising)
representing 97.3 percent of all the exporters of goods
generating a majority of the innovations that come from united states companies



a leader should point out the path of self-improvement,
not pander excuses to the parasites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem).

[Phlegethon]

[list=1]
these are entry-level jobs for the yet-to-be-educated - not careers:
this is the work one does
untill acquiring a profession/vocation/education
(the ecdysiast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecdysiast) working her way through law-school).
once again, physical effort does not - necessarily - equal productivity:
the person that invested the extra effort
to acquire knowledge/skill - works smarter
than the person that has yet to do so
and earns more
for the investment, efficacious effort and productivity.

This is purely theoretical. Around here highly qualified academicians are sweeping the streets, simply because no company will hire you if you're older than 40.

[Brännvin]

Sad fuck, this is not life I'd rather commit suicide :eek: :stop :icon_eyes:

[SwordoftheVistula]

This is purely theoretical. Around here highly qualified academicians are sweeping the streets, simply because no company will hire you if you're older than 40.

In this instance, the US is more socialist in that people over the age of 40 are 'protected from employment discrimination'. So it's the under-40s with college degrees sweeping the streets :coffee: Low level retail and data entry jobs actually, since street sweepers are highly paid unionized city employees.

[Phlegethon]

Well, to be saved from employment discrimination you would have to find a job first. Laws are fine, and there are on the book, of course, but technically next to impossible to enforce. The whole "go to university so that you will get a better job" routine does not work out here, and more and more folks are realizing that it is just a scam to defraud them of their tuition money.

[007]

Is it culture, language, religion, sub-cultures, music, DNA, sports, collective mindsets, etc...?

How do you define and differentiate between the two?

Where they are born

[Lutiferre]

What differentiates Europeans from Americans?

I don't know. A few thousand kilometers, coming out of different historical processes and followingly divergent cultural contexts, with non-European influences, and influences from radical elements within Europe which would not be as influential in Europe as America.

But nowadays? Less and less. We're all going to McDonalds.

[Brännvin]

But nowadays? Less and less. We're all going to McDonalds.

Not me, I had exceptional parents during my childhood and adolescence :wink