Should a father have just as much say in abortion as a mother?

[Slycooper]

The woman has the final say. imo that is ridiculous since the child is also the fathers and technically comes from us. What are your thoughts?

[Sikeliot]

I think the woman should have all the say, but the father should not be held financially responsible if her choice goes against his wishes.

[Sikeliot]

Thought you might find this interesting.

http://www.debate.org/debates/Fathers-Should-Have-a-Say-in-Abortion/1/

[Mortimer]

i agree the father Needs to have even say

edit: but i think he cant pressure her to have abortion just to prevent abortion. i just yesterday had Imagination how a Girl aborts my child and i call her murder and her new boyfriend beats me up for it

[Arthas]

I think the woman should have all the say, but the father should not be held financially responsible if her choice goes against his wishes.

This. You can't have the cake and eat it.

I can guarantee that the frequency of this happening would drop significantly if a law was passed saying that males were not financially responsible for a child if they wanted their partner to get an abortion.

Women take males for granted and take advantage of the extremely biased laws when it comes to anything involving sex or children.

[Mortimer]

i think abortion should not even be question. just when mother tries to murder the Baby (Abort) the father should have all rights to prevent it

[Sikeliot]

This. You can't have the cake and eat it.

I can guarantee that the frequency of this happening would drop significantly if a law was passed saying that males were not financially responsible for a child if they wanted their girlfriend to get an abortion.

Women take males for granted and take advantage of the extremely biased laws when it comes to anything involving sex or children.

I agree completely. I think more women would abort if they knew that the father wouldn't have to pay.. and you know what, if he doesn't want the child, he shouldn't have to.

Either it's a woman's choice and the father doesn't have to pay.. or abortion should not solely be a woman's choice.

[Absinthe]

You talk about abortion as if it's a walk to the supermarket to buy groceries...

People, abortion is a serious affair, it's like a last resort when all odds are against you, like when the child appears to be genetically sick or when there is a serious threat to the mother's health, etc.

It's not like, spray, wipe, you're done. Both sexual partners should watch it so that there isn't an unwanted pregnancy in the first place. Abortion is not a preventive measure, it's the very unfortunate outcome of the lack of prevention.

Men need to grow up and realize than dipping their dick without a condom can bring about very serious consequences (and not just a pregnancy) and stop talking about abortion like it's the most natural thing in the world.

[Graus]

I think the woman should have all the say, but the father should not be held financially responsible if her choice goes against his wishes.

Nothing to add

[Absinthe]

I really love how strongly opinionated about sexual and reproductive matters are people who admittedly don't have a sex life to begin with :rolleyes:

[Mary]

No. The father should have all the say.

[Grace O'Malley]

If a woman doesn't want to have an abortion and the man does how are you going to make that happen? You can't force an abortion on an unwilling woman and that will not happen in an enlightened society.

I'm sure most women would listen to what the father wants but ultimately it will be the woman's choice.

[Mary]

If a woman doesn't want to have an abortion and the man does how are you going to make that happen? You can't force an abortion on an unwilling woman and that will not happen in an enlightened society.

I'm sure most women would listen to what the father wants but ultimately it will be the woman's choice.

She will be told to obey the man and most women will do so.

[Grace O'Malley]

She will be told to obey the man and most women will do so.

Not in my neck of the woods. I like your sense of humour though.

[Vojnik]

Yes, both parents are equally responsible of that child once it enters the world, so they should both have a say whilst it is in the womb. I am against abortion anyway.

[Leliana]

Abortion is murder! Only in cases of severe life danger for the mother or in a rape case it should be allowed, otherwise it has to be prohibited and punished.

[King Claus]

Abortion is murder! Only in cases of severe life danger for the mother or in a rape case it should be allowed, otherwise it has to be prohibited and punished.

what if someone uses a morning after pill?

[Leliana]

what if someone uses a morning after pill?
Life is created with the fusion of the male semen with the female egg. It's still abortion.

[Arthas]

Life is created with the fusion of the male semen with the female egg. It's still abortion.

How would you respond to my view that abortion is murder only if the baby has reached the stage where it could survive independently?

[Vesuvian Sky]

I know in "nature", termination of offspring is done only in the most extreme circumstances by a "parent".

I've seen footage of a female horse trampling on her new born after it was born. Reason: the mare knew the filly would be unable to walk after so many hours of it struggling to get on its feet.

Ergo, I feel its actually a type of "biological travesty" (don't know how else to put it) to do this even to future kin especially if the offspring will be known to be healthy.

Also agree w/ Absinthe that abortion is thrown around like its an "easy cleanup solution" which I feel is misguided.

Granted there are some instances where such termination is perhaps permissible (hard for me to admit even that) but most should know better rather then say "I created this, but I just don't feel like committing..."

As for if the farther should have a say, well this is touchy, but yes he should since its technically of his own "blood" as well. Even if it wasn't planned, he may have wanted the child regardless.

[Kazimiera]

A father who genuinely interested in his child is not the kind of man a woman would want an abortion from anyway.

Look at the circumstances under which women tend to have abortion. Besides medical problems, the greatest factor is usually socio-economic.

A father who was interested in his child would be interested in its future and providing for it.

The women who end up having abortions are usually disillusioned ones who were good enough for him as long as her legs were open. If he doesn't care for more than a good time, then he should not have a say in the abortion. Most of the time, they couldn't really care anyway.

It is the women who are the ones saddled with the child for life. Not the men. He can walk out any time he wants. She is the one with the responsibility.

[el22]

If the mother can have a veto to abort, the father should have the veto too.
If the mother can have the veto to keep the child, the father should have that veto too.
If the mother can do whatever she likes, the father has no responsibility for child.

This is the basis. But not all options are equally good.

[Slycooper]

The child comes from the father tecnically though.

[Kazimiera]

The child comes from the father tecnically though.

It's 50/50. It took both of them to make it.

Yet it takes her to bear it. And she has a choice what to do with her body.

[Graus]

A father who genuinely interested in his child is not the kind of man a woman would want an abortion from anyway.

Look at the circumstances under which women tend to have abortion. Besides medical problems, the greatest factor is usually socio-economic.

A father who was interested in his child would be interested in its future and providing for it.

The women who end up having abortions are usually disillusioned ones who were good enough for him as long as her legs were open. If he doesn't care for more than a good time, then he should not have a say in the abortion. Most of the time, they couldn't really care anyway.

It is the women who are the ones saddled with the child for life. Not the men. He can walk out any time he wants. She is the one with the responsibility.


Actually, its the other way around. The women choose if they want to have the child. They can also give it away, if they dont feel like being a mother anymore. The man on the other hand has to pay...

[Slycooper]

It's 50/50. It took both of them to make it.

Yet it takes her to bear it. And she has a choice what to do with her body.

But that man's child is in her body. It is not just hers.

[Kazimiera]

But that man's child is in her body. It is not just hers.

While it is in her, it is part of her body.

The impact of having a child weighs far greater on the mother than the father. He contributed a couple million sperm cells of which one hit the mark. That is where it ends for the father. She has to go through 9 months of pregnancy, undergo hormonal changes, physical changes. And once the child is born it does not stop there, because she has to nurture and feed it.

So we are talking about one sperm cell vs. a lifetime commitment from her side, whether she likes it or not.

[Arthas]

If the issue is wanting to get an abortion, the mother should be the sole decision maker.

If the issue is NOT getting an abortion, if either parent doesn't want to then it should not be allowed.

[Óttar]

And she has a choice what to do with her body.
I hear this argument a lot when it comes to abortion. It is the most employed statement in abortion discourse.

Now, I am generally pro-choice except for partial birth abortion, but my reasoning is more pragmatic than anything.

That being said, after a certain point, the issue is not her body, but the fact that there is indeed a separate autonomous being's body growing inside of her.

[Hayalet]

If the issue is wanting to get an abortion, the mother should be the sole decision maker.

If the issue is NOT getting an abortion, if either parent doesn't want to then it should not be allowed.
Once again, I agree with you. That is, assuming they are a married couple. If they aren't, I believe the mother has all the rights, and responsibilities, concerning the baby.

[Slycooper]

While it is in her, it is part of her body.

The impact of having a child weighs far greater on the mother than the father. He contributed a couple million sperm cells of which one hit the mark. That is where it ends for the father. She has to go through 9 months of pregnancy, undergo hormonal changes, physical changes. And once the child is born it does not stop there, because she has to nurture and feed it.

So we are talking about one sperm cell vs. a lifetime commitment from her side, whether she likes it or not.

The father has a lifetime commitement to the child as well.

[kabeiros]

Look at the circumstances under which women tend to have abortion. Besides medical problems, the greatest factor is usually socio-economic. Women have changed a lot in the last century, some women would rather have an abortion than have a baby and get married, because they want to ''live'' their life and have fun without responsibilities.

You almost said it yourself:


It is the women who are the ones saddled with the child for life. Not the men. He can walk out any time he wants. She is the one with the responsibility.

[Kazimiera]

The father has a lifetime commitement to the child as well.

In THEORY. It is expected of the father to commit, and a decent man would. But there are many non-decent men out there who couldn't care less how many children they've fathered and don't give a damn about any of them.

I know many, MANY women who are hard-up and have to work as single mothers. The man waved around an engagement ring, made promises he couldn't keep and disappeared into the sunset when he found out she has a bun in the oven. These women spend months and years in the family court, trying to pin the guy down long enough to pay maintenance, which he promises to do but never does.

These single women with children then rely on their own mothers to help raise the child, putting a burden on the grandmother. And it just spins off into a cycle which repeats itself over and over again.

They work their asses off in low-paid jobs because they don't have an education. They slave away long hours for almost nothing, and then go home tired to maybe spend an hour or two with their child. They feel guilty for not being able to do so, and guilty for not earning enough. It is a cycle of guilt.

Wise reproductive choices (of which abortion is an extreme one) can prevent these circumstances.

[Leliana]

How would you respond to my view that abortion is murder only if the baby has reached the stage where it could survive independently?
:confused:
I'd respond negatively, of course.

[Graham]

Voting no...It's her body, her choice.

[Mary]

I think that abortion is fine if the man who owns the woman says so. There is no reason it should not be as long as the fetus can not survive independently of the woman's body. Otherwise I will claim that life starts at ejaculation and we will have severe punishments for any man who wastes it.

[Absinthe]

Otherwise I will claim that life starts at ejaculation and we will have severe punishments for any man who wastes it.

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