Kurultáj - The Eastern Tribal Assembly

[Arrow Cross]

Grand-Kurultáj


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Website: http://kurultaj.hu/english/
Pictures: http://www.facebook.com/kurultaj/photos_stream


In the minds of Hungarians the unwritten tradition of their Asian origin is still there. But since the middle of the 19th century it has been a bone of contention among the academic standpoints. In the last half of the 20th century (especially in the communist era) the „Finno-Ugrian’’ theory of Hungarian origin was forced over against all cons. The archaeological, linguistic, ethnographic and anthropologic researches of the Hungarian origin show something else. Nowadays, most of the researchers (especially the archaeologists and the anthropologists) accept that the Hungarian anthropological character and culture shows more similarity with the Middle-Asian Turk people keeping the Iranian and Scythian tradition.

The most important event in Hungarian history is „Honfoglalás”, the occupation of homeland (the conquest of the Carpathian Basin in the 10th century.). Among the equestrian-nomadic cultures Hungarians have the most western country, which was founded in the heart of Europe and stands for more than one thousand years. Nowadays Hungary is an integrated nation (without tribal distribution). But most of our history was determined by the tribal system based on the big families (as the most equestrian nomadic commons). The union of the tribes, the Blood-contract is one of the bedrocks of the national tradition. Lord Árpád, the leader of the Occupation of homeland was the forefather of the Hungarian royal dynasty, which was reigning for centuries. He was one of the most important persons in Hungarian history. He represents the power and the unity of the nation! The most glorious chapters of Hungarian history were written during his reign and that of his descendants.

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Lord Árpád

The search for Hungarians left behind in the East started in the age of the Occupation of homeland, and the two groups were able to keep in touch with each other for a long time. Many Hungarians (scientist as well as simple people) committed themselves to find our relatives left behind in he East.

Kurultáj as an event is based on one of the scientific expeditions of the Hungarian anthropologist and human biologist András Zsolt Bíró (anthropological researcher of the Hungarian Museum of Natural Sciences) in Kazakhstan. The data and DNA samples from the expedition of 2006 certified (Y- chromosome test) the genetic similarity (beyond the similarity of their names) between the Madjar tribe of Kazakhstan and the „magyarok” (Hungarians) in the Carpathian basin. The results of the research were published by the American Journal of Physical Antropology, one of the most prestigious scientific bulletins of the world. The study made a big international sensation and took many tributes to the research group. In 2007 December, András Zsolt Bíró was awarded in person by Yermukhamet Yertisbayev, the cultural minister of Kazakhstan, and become an honorary councillor of the Madjar tribe.

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The results of the research attracted attention to the importance of cousinship in Kazakhstan and other countries of Middle-Asia.

The first Madjar-Magyar Kurultáj (tribal convention) had been organised in Kazakhstan in 2007. A Hungarian delegation led by András Zsolt Bíró was also present.

Arriving home they decided to organize a tribal convention – Kurultáj in Hungary in 2008. They invited the Madjar tribe members of Kazakistan as special guests.
The event was in August 2008.

A common interest was raised that no one has seen before. More than eighty convention keeper groups and cultural groups worked together in perfect unison.
More than one hundred yurts were built.

Many cultural and military convention keeper programs were realized with thousands of warriors, mounted archers, horsemen.

This program was visited by more than 90 000 persons. At the fire of the Kurultáj the deputies decided to organise a big Kurultáj in 2010 for all the bow drawer nations.

Kurultáj means unity. The Hungarian convention keepers of the Carpathian basin, the Madjar tribe of Kazakistan and the deputies of the brotherly nations will celebrate together and remember the big ancestors with honour. The culture of Hungarians rooted in the culture of equestrian nomadic commons on steppes (like the culture of Scythians, Huns, Avars), and connected to the conventions of the big nations in Middle- and Inner–Asia by that.

Kurultáj lifts up and reunites our nations by the right of our forefathers, sets an example from patriotism and lights the brotherly affection’s fire up again in 150 million souls from the Carpathian basin to Siberia.

The Grand-Kurultáj continued with the spirit of the first Kurultáj in 2007 and the second in 2008. Enhanced the relationship between the brotherly nations from Middle- and Inner–Asia, Anatolia and the Caucasus Mountains. The parties saluted to the big and revered forefathers living in the tradition and in the minds of Hungarians and the brotherly nations as Atilla, Baján kagán, Madjar baba, Karcig batir.

All genetically and/or culturally relative invited hun-turk minded nations accepted the invitation for the celebrate. They introduced themselves with high qualified diplomatic and scientific representatives and folk music and dance performances. The representatives of hun-turk minden gathered nations signed a historical declaration in which they conceded brothers each-other. After this event how strong our hands take one another – it depends on us: how can we, more than one hundred million people fill the brothership with living spirit. The original and complete declaration:
“From the order of the Sky: kazak, kirgiz, ozbek, turk, azeri, uygur, bashkir, sakha (yakut), bolgar, magyar, madyar, tatar, turkmen, mongol, chuvash, gagauz, japan are hun brothers.”
…and the signs from all nations…

This celebration commemorated the historically analysed and archeologically established historical events. A great yurt was built as the Tent of Ancestors, in which you could see and salute the remains of a horse-nomadic hungarian warrior. He was the firstly known warrior from the age of conquest of homeland with a trepaned skull.

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An authentic face reconstruction of this skull made, and a picture showing how could this warrior looks like was painted by this. Am original “in situ” man and horse burial site with gold ornaments, weapons from this age can be seen. This memorial yurt was built by the specialists of four museums. The exhibition was visited by more than ten thousand visitors since the three days!

The best of Hungarian tradition keepers remembered for their ancestors with honour. They made more surprises for the Kurultaj.
Shamanic drum.

For this event was made and was used at the sacred fire the biggest shamanic drum of the world. Diameter is 188 cms. A leather good maker name Sandor Balogh and his team made this drum especially for the Kurultaj. It was made from Siberian birch tree and from a whole skin of a cow.

Far distance archery

The biggest shot was recorded in 1226 in Sartaul, Tadjikistan. Shot by a warrior named Esunkhei. It was 502,5 meters (335 alds). In the spring of 2010, an arrow of the Jozsef Monus and Csaba Grozer flew to 508,74 meters and breaked the middle-age record.
Jozsef Monus promised to try to break his new record on the Kurultaj – and he did it! His arrow hit the ground at 603 meters!

Armour reconstruction

The huns had their way of armour making. Since the Scythians used the spangled armour, huns were developed a laminated type. Zsolt Kelemen and his team investigated the making and using methods of this armour. Supported by our foundation, they reconstructed an armour similar to the white huns settled in the Carpathian basin as Avars. During the reconstruction they had experimented the lost technology in many times. When they tested the finished armour, they shocked: all builded surfaces standed against the arrows. Even the modern firearms’ bullets were unable to go through of it!
The Kurultaj is the greatest celebration and show of the old hungarian, hunnic and turk and even the horse nomadic eastern steppe cultures in every two years.
Since 2010 one of the biggest tradition keeping events of the world. More than 3000 tradition keepers, hundreds of horseback archers participated on the Kurultaj in 2010. 135 yurts were set up.
There was 42 military tradition keeper shows and programs, nomadic horse and archer contests and musical concerts during the three days. More than 140 thousand in the main day and at about 220 thousand on the whole event visited.

The ceremonials were celebrated by the conventions of the ancient hungarian religion Tengri grown from the shamanic conviction.

The hungarians and every biggest hun or turk minded nation joined to the celebration.

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[Hayalet]

In the last half of the 20th century (especially in the communist era) the „Finno-Ugrian’’ theory of Hungarian origin was forced over against all cons.
Is there any notable academic rebuttal of it?

[Onur]

Is there any notable academic rebuttal of it?
There are so many...

There was two camps; the ones who supported Finnic theory and their opponents who supported traditional theory of Turkic/Altaic roots.

Read this article about the history of Ugric-Turkic battle;
http://eap.ee/public/va_lu/l37-2-1.pdf


The linguist who first created the separate Finno-Hungarian group in late 19th century was a German who couldn't even properly speak neither of these languages. You can read it from the article above.

Imho, the so-called Finnic-Hungarian theory was a result of some political factors back in late 19th and early 20th century.

[Arrow Cross]

Is there any notable academic rebuttal of it?
Plenty, but the vast majority of such studies are unfortunately only in Hungarian, or not even found on the Internet. We clearly are lagging behind in this regard. All I could dig up in due haste was this (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=440750) discussion, which deals with the same question.

Another factor to consider here is politics. The implications of the acceptance of the Turanic idea would entail the cessation of servility towards the EU, a genuine eastward opening, as well as an ethno-nationalistic awakening, neither of which serve the interests of the current, oppressive democratic regime and by extension, its academic mameluks.

[Partizan]

QCgcUmDb_Jc

Mindörökke Magyarorszag! :)

[Onur]

Website: http://kurultaj.hu/english/
Pictures: http://www.facebook.com/kurultaj/photos_stream

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Whatta magnificent picture this is!

Also, thanks for the link above. I found some more great pictures with Turkish participants to the kurultaj;

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[Lathander]

agQGTJtkdaY

[Arrow Cross]

Imho, the so-called Finnic-Hungarian theory was a result of some political factors back in late 19th and early 20th century.
A Habsburg attempt to make this rebellious nation less unruly through sentiments of past glory. Medieval texts and folk lore are both ripe with Hunnic and Scythian references regarding our ancient past and the name Attila/Etele is one of our oldest.

[Onur]

A Habsburg attempt to make this rebellious nation less unruly through sentiments of past glory.
Yes, thats true. This was a part of centuries old Hapsburg plan to completely subjugate Hungarians and assimilate them into German society.

There are several 17-18-19th century memorial houses in Turkey, where previously the Hungarian national resistance leaders lived in. They have been persecuted by the Hapsburgs and seek refuge in Ottoman Turkey all the time, then ask for help from Ottoman empire.

[Murat ÖZCAN]

[QUOTE=Arrow Cross;1262059]Grand-Kurultáj


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Nice Girl :D

[Murat ÖZCAN]

There are so many...

There was two camps; the ones who supported Finnic theory and their opponents who supported traditional theory of Turkic/Altaic roots.

Read this article about the history of Ugric-Turkic battle;
http://eap.ee/public/va_lu/l37-2-1.pdf


The linguist who first created the separate Finno-Hungarian group in late 19th century was a German who couldn't even properly speak neither of these languages. You can read it from the article above.

Imho, the so-called Finnic-Hungarian theory was a result of some political factors back in late 19th and early 20th century.

Aren't finno-ugor nations turanid,too?

[Szegedist]

The linguist who first created the separate Finno-Hungarian group in late 19th century was a German who couldn't even properly speak neither of these languages. You can read it from the article above.

Imho, the so-called Finnic-Hungarian theory was a result of some political factors back in late 19th and early 20th century.


Another factor to consider here is politics. The implications of the acceptance of the Turanic idea would entail the cessation of servility towards the EU, a genuine eastward opening, as well as an ethno-nationalistic awakening, neither of which serve the interests of the current, oppressive democratic regime and by extension, its academic mameluks.


Dr. István Kiszely on the Finno-Ugric theory:

Contrary to the certainty of the scholars of Hungary and the world, the knowledge that the Hungarian language is of Turkish origin was questioned by Szenczi Molnár Albert, Johann Eberhard Fischer, August Schlözer in the 17th century. Later, the monarchy-serving henchmen, astronomer – and in linguistics ignorant – Sajnovics János (1733-1785); friend of Schlözer, medical doctor Gyarmathy Sámuel (1751-1830); linguist Reguly Antal; linguist Saxon Hunfalvy (Hunsdorfer) Pál; and the German Joseph Budenz (who could hardly speak a word of Hungarian) created a Magyar “ancient history” that took away the pride, ancestry and knowledge of the past of the Magyars and which derived the Magyars from the hunter-gatherer Finn-Ugric culture. When the minister for Religion and Education, Trefort Ágost (1817-1888), who was originally sympathetic to the Magyars, had to answer to the Magyars who protested against the Finn-Ugric theory of their origin forced upon them by the Chancellery, he answered:


“I respect the standpoint of You gentlemen, I however – as minister – have to look to the interests of the country, and therefore, from an external viewpoint, I accept the more advantageous principle of the Finn-Ugric theory of origin, because we need not Asiatic but European kinsmen. The government will in the future only support those spokespersons of science, who fight at the side of the Finn-Ugric theory of origin.”

http://istvandr.kiszely.hu/ostortenet/005.html





Kiszely István: A magyarok eredete és ôsi kultúrája I. Püski Kiadó, Budapest, 2000.

On page 109 Kiszely quotes another veteran historian and archaeologist – awarded in September 2007 with the Hungarian Heritage Award (Magyar Örökség Díj) by the Hungarian Academy of Sciences, despite his politically incorrect discoveries – professor Kornél Bakay:


“For the Germans a thousand years was not enough to “forgive” the existence of the Magyars. From the 6th to the 18th century the Germans preferred to call the Magyars wild Huns, Avars, Agarenus [?], but when – via Magyar tradition – the Hungarian historians started propagating the Scythian-Hun-Avar relation documented in their chronicles in scientific books as well, at first the Germans were surprised, then mounted a fierce counter-attack. This went so far, that in the 18th century Holy Roman Emperor Joseph II (1780-1790) decreed the prohibition of teaching Magyar history and origins.”


On page 110:


“August Ludwig Schlözer made Fischer’s work famous in his works “Probe Russischen Annales” printed 1768 and “Allgemeine Nordische Geschichte” printed in 1771. Schlözer hated the Magyars and was happy to hear Fischer’s idea, that “Vogul-Jugri” is equivalent of the Magyars. Delighted, he mentions that the relatives of the Voguls, the Samoyeds are cannibals (“Selbstfresser”), and continues: ‘none of the Finn peoples are master peoples, only the Magyars were later exceptions, but not even they were created to rule. They were the victims and play things of their neighbours, and consequently do not have their own history (“keine eigene Geschichte haben”). Likewise, the Finns have no history of their own, and let us not forget the writings of C. Tacitus: ‘The Finns are terribly fierce and appallingly poor, they have neither weapons, horses nor houses. They eat grass, their clothes are animal skin and they sleep on the ground. Their only tool is the arrow…they have no other desires.’ These then are the relatives of the Magyars.”



On page 112:


“Gyarmathi Sámuel (1751-1830) actually befriended A.L. Schlözer as a medical doctor in 1795 in Göttingen, and was up until that time a passionate adherent of the Scythian-Hun-Avar-Turk theory. Now, under the influence and pressure of Schlözer, Gyarmathi became the propagator of the Finn-Ugric theory. He did not start out as a linguist, he just wrote an amateur linguistic study as an application for a position at a journal, the title of which was “Cleverly Educating Magyar Language Master”. In this study he still accepts the traditional theory based on the teachings of Otrokocsi Fóris Ferenc and Kalmár György. In 1795 he travels to Göttingen and meets Schlözer. Influenced by Schlözer Gyarmathi writes his work entitled “Affinitas linguae Hungaricae cum linguis fennicae originis gramaticae demonstrata” (1799). Consisting of three chapters he writes about the Magyar-Turkic word connections, but also about the Slavic elements in the Magyar language. In the question of relations between languages he gives weight to the linguistic connections. Looking at his etymology with the eyes of today he gives many flawed examples. [...] Based on his linguistic material Gyarmathi came to the conclusion that the closest languages to the Magyar is the Vogul [Mansi] and the Ostyak. He felt that this research was better continued on site, yet nothing became of his travel plans… After this – with the exception of writing a dictionary – he never worked in lingustics again.”



The Hungarian scholars and scientists are not alone on this issue. One example out of a number is Japanese historian Shokotu Faisi, who wrote a letter addressed to the Hungarian people in general and to the Hungarian scholars and scientists in particular, dated July 2nd 2007. The source of this letter is unclear and there is an ongoing discussion on the net concerning its authenticity. Nevertheless, I’ve translated it here from the original Hungarian, because what has been written in it is true:


“Some of us scholars of Japanese ancient history have grown up with the belief that the most noble people and race of the earth is the Magyar. We believed and still believe You to be, beloved Magyar kinsmen, the progeny of the Empire of the Rising Sun, whom the karma of history have carried far away. Acknowledging their racial excellence we arrived in those days in Budapest to study Hungarian under the guidance of the wise Imaoka Gyuicsiro.* After the passing of thirty years I have to conclude the following:

1) There existed no true Magyar historiography neither under the Habsburgs nor during the Horthy era. In their own interest the Habsburgs exterminated everything which referred to an ancient origin. The Teleki Pál Institute with its own biased scholars (the Horthy era scientific body) under the leadership of Hómann Bálint “re-evaluated” Magyar history in favour of the Roman Catholic church and the house of Habsburg.

2) In this group there exists no scholar basing their work on real racial myths, for how could those evaluate the strength and the veracity of these myths who have destroyed the credibility of their own National Chronicle?

Since the Magyar nation, race and people from the point of view of historical research must fall under the same examination as any other nation, race and people, I ask You my fellow Magyar contemporary historians, why do You in the questions regarding Your own race always refer to the Hitlerian anomalies? Why not refer to the racial similarities of “biblical Israel”? Israel is a nation, race and people, as are the Magyar, Japanese, Greek and Arab a race and a nation. But why do You – Magyar scholars – not finally solve the question of the myriad designations, personal and geographical names that occur in the Bible? From afar we can better see both the ambition and the deceit.

In truth, the Magyar race is by now quite mixed. The scholars of “Magyar” historiography are also of such mixed blood. There are history scholars of German-Magyar, Slavic-Magyar, Romanian-Magyar, Israelite-Magyar mix, too. It is interesting to conclude, observing from the outside, that neither one of these study true Magyar history, but they seek to distort Magyar history in favour of the Germans, Slavs, Romanians, Israelites. In connection to this I wish to direct a question to these colleagues, and through them to every Hungarian. Namely: Why is it that the Magyar nation is the only nation in the world whose origins and history they are trying to cover up? Who are behind this cover-up?

Until You will answer this question, we Japanese and all members belonging to Turanian clans (tribes) write in the language that has preserved the elements of the most ancient language – Magyar! – our letter of AWAKENING to some 800 million kinsmen (brethren), and with this we wish to pay homage to the Magyar people, race and nation for their most ancient origin and their many thousands of years of tradition – even if You want to falsify this fact.”





Also, language =/= ethnicity, this is one theory:

1. The Language

The ProtoHungarians were at least bilingual. Some of them spoke a Finno-Ugrian type of language, others a West-Turkic (Thranian or Onogur) tongue and some others probably an Iranian-Mesopotamian type of language. Gradually a new, composite language evolved, based on the grammatical structure of the Finno–Ugrian component, a logical, simple, agglutinating tongue. It retained the simplest basic words of that language, with the Turkic-Onogur and the Mesopotamian-Iranian elements enriching its vocabulary.

The name the Hungarians apply to themselves, ‘Magyar", derives from the Ugrian "Mansi– or "Magy–" with the addition of the Turkic "-eri." forming "Megyeri" – "Magyen." – "Magyar", which became the name of the largest tribe Both particles mean "men". The name given to them by the western historians, ‘Hungarian" (Latin: "Hungarus"), is a variation of the name "Hun-Ogur" – "Onogur" – "Hungur" used since the fifth century by foreign chroniclers, a reminder of their association with TurkicOnogur-Hun peoples.

2. Racial composition

Anthropometric measurements carried out on skeletons from the settlement period indicate a racially composite people. The main components were the Turanoid (Turkic-Onogur), the East–Baltic (Finno-Ugrian), the Uralian or Ugrian (the eastern branch of the Finno-Ugrian) with substantial components of Caucasian, Anatolian, Nordoid, Dinarian, Mediterranean and Alpine racial types.

3. Ethnogenesis

This linguistically and racially composite nation has obviously evolved from the successive amalgamations of clans, tribes and groups of various racial and geographical origins. The ProtoHungarian people were made up of some Nordic tribes of Ugrian origin who came from the Volga–Kama-Ural region and of a (probably larger) eastern component of Turkic–Onogur (Turanian) people who came from the Caspian region. These Turkic elements included Scythian, Hunnic and Avar types as well and later some Khazars. To these came the third, southern segment, the Caucasian (Sabir, Alanian) and Iranian-Mesopotamian elements.

It has been proven that all these races, cultures and languages contributed to the formation of the Magyar or Hungarian people and from their amalgamations arose during the first centuries of the Christian era a remarkably colorful, complex and viable nation, not unlike today’s evolving nations, the Australians or the Americans. The latent dynamism of this young People urged them to move on in search of a safer, more suitable homeland. These migrations lasted many centuries.


http://www.hungarianhistory.com/lib/timeless/chapter01.htm

[Szegedist]

Anyway, the 2012 Kurultáj was a semi-official government event, that received government sponsoring (70 million forints).

It has left the remote reaches, and now even our prime minister said we are half Asian, Matolcsy talked about a relation to the Japanese.



Sándor Lezsák (MDF, Fidez) greeting Turanians in the Hungarian parliament:
http://hungarianspectrum.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/kurultaj-a-parlamentben.jpg?w=595


So it shows that it is not something that only the remote far right believes in, but it has penetrated mainstream politics.

Like this for example:

The Hungarian-Turán Foundation signs a strategic cooperation agreement with Turkey
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2012/12/the-hungarian-turan-foundation-signs.html


Unfortunatelly, this is quite a problem for the "other type" of Hungarian nationalist, and that is the Western Oriented white supremacist or even White nationalist.

These still hate Turks, but see Germans, Austrians as our faithful allies.
I spoke to one, who said that the only true allies Hungary ever had were Austria and Poland.... /facepalm

Our neighbours to the West always looked down on us, even since we first arrived here, and they would gladly stick a knife in our back if it meant they could annex more of our land, enslave our people or to simply humiliate us.

[Onur]

Szegedist, thanks for the information and interesting quotes. Especially Dr. István Kiszely`s words about the Finno-Ugric propagandists being the monarchy-serving henchmen, astronomer – and in linguistics ignorant, medical doctors and people who could hardly speak a word of Hungarian. Tough, the minister`s response to this issue summarizes what happened back then.

This didnt only happen to Hungarians back then but Finns, Estonians too. The German, French and British scholars was considering these people as "Turko-Tatar Mongols" in Europe before and classifying as such in their ethnographic maps of Europe [while they clearly weren't as such but hey were just Eurasian] but something happened all of a sudden in 19th century and great powers felt the need to consolidate with them and Finno-Ugric theory has been born. They created a new path in European politics and ignored what they said about them before but started to consider Hungarians, Finns, Estonians as a part of Europe.


Szegedist, i have to tell you something tough; You wont be liked around here if you claim such things. You will be seen as traitor and anti-European by many in this forum.

[Szegedist]

Correct, the Finno-Ugric theory was mostly to make us more controrable.

Here is the reason:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunor_and_Magor



The myth was also employed by later writers, most notably István Werbőczy, who used it to extol the Hungarian nobility in his highly influential collection of Hungarian customary law, the Tripartitum (completed 1514, first published 1517). According to Werbőczy, the Hungarians, as descendants of Hunor and Magor, were of 'Scythian' origin and subject to 'Scythian' law. "The Hungarians inherited their moral values and customs from the 'Scythians', who had once defeated even Darius and Alexander the Great. Their true vocation was war, which was the only activity that was noble enough to suit them." The nobles were free and equal; the peasants were the descendants of those who had been condemned for cowardice in battle and whose punishment had been commuted from execution to losing their social rank.[4] Werbőczy thus used the Hunor and Magor myth to justify Hungarian serfdom.[5] Werbőczy's ideas were eagerly adopted by the Hungarian nobility and became the charter of common law for three centuries.






“IT IS impossible to keep these ungrateful, unbending and rebellious people within bounds by reasoning with them nor can they be won over by tolerance nor ruled by law. One must fear a nation that knows no fear. That is why its will must be broken with a rod of iron...” Clearly, General Raimondo Montecuccoli, the Habsburg military commander in Hungary, writing in the second half of the 17th century, was no lover of the people he was supposed to protect from the Ottoman threat. Nor were his imperial masters in Vienna.

[Szegedist]

Aren't finno-ugor nations turanid,too?

Debatable.

I have seen some Finns complain that they were not included in the Kurultáj, and if I am not mistaken, Finland will be represented in the 2014 Kurultáj.


They say these are the Turanian people

http://www.hunmagyar.org/turan/turan.jpg

But Native Americans are sometimes included too, since there are some Genetic and cultural similarities, also it is believed that they originally migrated from Central Asia, through Siberia to North and South America.
Some peoples, like the Chukchi are descendants of the proto native Americans that didn't go all the way.

[Arrow Cross]

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[Absinthe]

[QUOTE=Arrow Cross;1262059]Grand-Kurultáj


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Nice Girl :D
Yeah, look at the guy's look, bet he fell off the horse, shortly after the photo was taken :D

[Szegedist]

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http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/582550_215846821875767_1429618677_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/309169_216147048512411_2039826258_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/484066_214230828704033_852682608_n.jpg




http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/551233_214657005328082_1359493262_n.jpg

There were also Caucasians
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/417262_216801961780253_1239192506_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/418596_215257405268042_438775572_n.jpg

[Szegedist]

Szegedist, i have to tell you something tough; You wont be liked around here if you claim such things. You will be seen as traitor and anti-European by many in this forum.



Much of Europe has betrayed us so many times that I have lost count, so I am not too bothered about that.

What bothers me more are my own kin who hate this idea, and instead want to suck up to Europe and Israel.

There are many of my countrymen who see me as a traitor.

[Arrow Cross]

In all due honesty though, the genuine, true Hungarian nationalistic side is already a passionate enemy of both the EU and Israel, leaning more and more towards our eastern cousins. And that includes leading figures. But it's not us who're turning our backs on Europe, it's Europe that has turned its back on us; and its own self.

[Onur]

I think Hungarians have an unnecessary dilemma of "choosing east or west" but why? You can be both. Hungary is already European due to it`s geographical location but also a part of eastern world due to it`s history and ancestral past.

You can have both eastern and western cultural values like we have in Turkey. Who says that you can only be European or anti-European? There is no such thing.

[Arrow Cross]

That's all nice and true under normal circumstances, but being in the EU Reich, the moment a sane (read: not slaves to World Jewry) government assumes power in Hungary, the NATO will militarily intervene immediately. A defeated, former Axis slave country is under very close watch and held to very strict standards of obedience. That's what it means to be "European" in the XXIst Century. Goose step into your racial, cultural, economic and moral doom with the decadent West, or else.

[Szegedist]

In all due honesty though, the genuine, true Hungarian nationalistic side is already a passionate enemy of both the EU and Israel, leaning more and more towards our eastern cousins. And that includes leading figures. But it's not us who're turning our backs on Europe, it's Europe that has turned its back on us; and its own self.

This is correct. Thankfully the Western oriented 'nationalists', the ones who try to "prove" that the Huns were blonde haired and blue eyed are a minority, with no real political presentation.

Such groups exist, like the MNA, who see our neigbours as our brothers and Jobbik, HVIM as "chauvinist Jewish provocateurs"

These often attack our Eastern Cousins, and give us a bad name.

http://ujszo.com/files/imagecache/story_image/files/ujszo_1286741335_24.jpg
http://szentkoronaradio.com/files/kom2a2.jpg

http://ahojkomarno.sk/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/szlovak-magyar-megmozdulas-nepek-bekejeert3.jpg
http://kuruc.info/r/6/103580/

[Szegedist]

I think Hungarians have an unnecessary dilemma of "choosing east or west" but why? You can be both. Hungary is already European due to it`s geographical location but also a part of eastern world due to it`s history and ancestral past.

You can have both eastern and western cultural values like we have in Turkey. Who says that you can only be European or anti-European? There is no such thing.



You are right, and by no means do we want to isolate ourselves from the rest of Europe. I am all for friendly relations with European countries.
Unfortunately, in the current times (and previously in history) they have been isolating us, and not the other way around. We have no real friends in Europe except Poland. Even Croats fought against us several times during our independence wars.


In order to avoid misunderstandings, we need to clarify that this would in no way mean that Hungary should separate from Europe. In fact, what we propose would mean a strengthening of our position in Europe, as Hungary could thus become the Western bastion of a Turanic alliance.

[Kazuma]

how can you feel more related to turkish people than to slovak/czech/poles or austrian? it's a mistery for me...without offence for your ideas and for the turkish people obviously ;)

[eeroli]

Hungarians are generally nice people (been there twice). But but. What is this?

[Onur]

http://ujszo.com/files/imagecache/story_image/files/ujszo_1286741335_24.jpg
http://szentkoronaradio.com/files/kom2a2.jpg
What is this? Who are these people?

As far as i know, Hungary and Slovakia cannot get along due to historical reasons and tension was always high between them. Slovakia has been created in former Hungarian territories and there are so many Hungarians in there who lives in the areas bordering Hungary.

Are these people pictured here loves Slovaks and dislikes Turks? This is absurd!

[Arrow Cross]

What is this? Who are these people?

As far as i know, Hungary and Slovakia cannot get along due to historical reasons and tension was always high between them. Slovakia has been created in former Hungarian territories and there are so many Hungarians in there who lives in the areas bordering Hungary.

Are these people pictured here loves Slovaks and dislikes Turks? This is absurd!

MNA (Hungarian National Front) is a tiny and insignificant splinter group of National Socialists who take a noble principle (anti-chauvinism) and apply it the wrong way. Hungarians and Slovakians have been living in a common state and a common geopolitical entity for a thousand years, harmoniously coexisting for the better part of it. We shall eventually return to that state and become mutually stronger through it.


Hungarians are generally nice people (been there twice). But but. What is this?

Do not misunderstand! There is absolutely no animosity towards Finland on the Hungarian Right, in fact, we continue to honour you as a brave and worthy people with linguistic relations to us. However, our common origins might actually be a myth, but whatever the case, we're determined to find our true roots.


how can you feel more related to turkish people than to slovak/czech/poles or austrian? it's a mistery for me...without offence for your ideas and for the turkish people obviously ;)

It's a complex question, as you could probably gather from this thread. Suffice to say that one's neighbours are not necessarily one's best friends, especially in the stormy heart of Europe. One's relatives, however, wherever they might be, will always possess special value. We might be culturally European now, but our blood ties and steppe legacy always made us a bridge country between West and East.

[Onur]

how can you feel more related to turkish people than to slovak/czech/poles or austrian? it's a mistery for me...without offence for your ideas and for the turkish people obviously ;)
I posted this msg in some other thread here before but here is the Hungary`s greatest historical treasure;


From 10th to 12th century, the Hungarian kingdom was known as Tourkia/Turkey and their kings was getting crowned as "king of the Turks". They started to call their country as Hungary only after christianity has been largely established among them. Around that time, Anatolia started to be called as Tourkia instead of Pannonia.

Look at the Hungarian holy crown of 11th century;


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D1%81%D0%B2. _%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0.jpg/489px-%D0%9A%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D1%81%D0%B2. _%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/G%C3%A9za_I.jpg

****
To the right there is a picture of the Hungarian King Géza I (1074–1077), with the Greek inscription: "ΓΕΩΒΙΤZΑC ΠΙΣΤΟC ΚΡΑΛΗC ΤΟΥΡΚΙΑC" (Geōvitzas pistós králēs Tourkías, meaning "Géza I, faithful kralj of the land of the Turks"). The contemporary Byzantine name for the Hungarians was "Turks", while the Hungarian branch of the Greek Orthodox Church, under Constantinople's jurisdiction, was named the "Metropolitanate of Tourkia" (Hungary), and the head of this church was the "Metropolitan of Tourkia" (Hungary).[5]
****
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Crown_of_Hungary

[eeroli]

Terveisiä Suomesta.

[Szegedist]

What is this? Who are these people?
A breed of so called "White Nationalist" Hungarians, or Hungaristas as they call themselves, worshiping a worm like Szálasi.


As far as i know, Hungary and Slovakia cannot get along due to historical reasons and tension was always high between them. Slovakia has been created in former Hungarian territories and there are so many Hungarians in there who lives in the areas bordering Hungary.
Correct, not to mention the fact that they have disrespected/humiliated us many times with the help of outside powers, destroyed our statues, insulted our history, etc. They will not get away with it forever.


Are these people pictured here loves Slovaks and dislikes Turks? This is absurd!
And not just Slovaks, but also Romanians, Serbs, etc.
These people hold "Kosovo is Serbia" marches, but they wouldn't hold a "Transylvania is Hungary" march even if their mother's life depended on it.

[Arrow Cross]

A breed of so called "White Nationalist" Hungarians, or Hungaristas as they call themselves, worshiping a worm like Szálasi.

You truly have no clue, have you? I just said a post ago that the MNA are a splinter group, a hostile midget movement to Hungarian National Socialism. This (http://kitartas.mozgalom.org/publikaciok/van-e-lejjebb) article should clear it up.

As for the slandering of Szálasi, the last legitimate Hungarian head of state, let's hope these links will shed some much-needed light on the topics of his person and his movement.

Metapedia article (http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Arrow_Cross_Party) (English).

Apricity thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321) (Hungarian).

[Szegedist]

As for the slandering of Szálasi, the last legitimate Hungarian head of state, let's hope these links will shed some much-needed light on the topics of his person and his movement.

Metapedia article (http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Arrow_Cross_Party) (English).

Apricity thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321) (Hungarian).


Legitimate? Debatable, a German backed quisling puppet government.

I will put it this way, yes I do sympathize with various aspects of Hungarism, but I prefer someone like Gömbös Gyula, especially if he lived to create his one party state, based on the Szeged ideology.

[Arrow Cross]

Legitimate? Debatable, a German backed quisling puppet government.

I will put it this way, yes I do sympathize with various aspects of Hungarism, but I prefer someone like Gömbös Gyula, especially if he lived to create his one party state, based on the Szeged ideology.

Already in the late thirties, its supporters numbered in the millions, achieving over 15% in the 1939 parliamentary elections with its leader imprisoned and a campaign of lies being officially conducted against it. Unlike NS governments installed in Axis-hostile occupied countries, the Arrow Cross never had any major ties to the NSDAP, in fact, being resolved in the pursuit of Hungarian interests, their foreign policies clashed on multiple issues. The German backing of their coup was a last resort from Hitler, as all other major political formations wanted to switch sides.

But let's not derail the topic too much.

[Dengizik]

http://m.ak.fbcdn.net/sphotos-g.ak/hphotos-ak-ash3/560792_424533544262403_380559419_n.jpg

[Murat ÖZCAN]

Anyway, the 2012 Kurultáj was a semi-official government event, that received government sponsoring (70 million forints).

It has left the remote reaches, and now even our prime minister said we are half Asian, Matolcsy talked about a relation to the Japanese.



Sándor Lezsák (MDF, Fidez) greeting Turanians in the Hungarian parliament:
http://hungarianspectrum.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/kurultaj-a-parlamentben.jpg?w=595


So it shows that it is not something that only the remote far right believes in, but it has penetrated mainstream politics.

Like this for example:

The Hungarian-Turán Foundation signs a strategic cooperation agreement with Turkey
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2012/12/the-hungarian-turan-foundation-signs.html


Unfortunatelly, this is quite a problem for the "other type" of Hungarian nationalist, and that is the Western Oriented white supremacist or even White nationalist.

These still hate Turks, but see Germans, Austrians as our faithful allies.
I spoke to one, who said that the only true allies Hungary ever had were Austria and Poland.... /facepalm

Our neighbours to the West always looked down on us, even since we first arrived here, and they would gladly stick a knife in our back if it meant they could annex more of our land, enslave our people or to simply humiliate us.


Please first look at "Arrow Cross" user in this forum.Second,examine "Onogurs" rock group.They perform their show in Pax Hungarica and Szalasi meetings.Third,I spoke National Socialist leader of Pax Hungarica(Lantos Janos),he doesn't have anything against us.Fourth,Györgi Ekrem Kemal was a man who has Turkic origin and who is a National Socialist.Please examine these,I don't know you are mentioning about another group but National Socialists in Hungary doesn't look like enemy of Turkishes.That was a small note,mate.I didn't want anything else :)

[Szegedist]

Murat ÖZCAN I do not say that all national socialists in Hungary dislike Turks. But there are many who do, and not just national socialists.

[Murat ÖZCAN]

Murat ÖZCAN I do not say that all national socialists in Hungary dislike Turks. But there are many who do, and not just national socialists.

As far as I know,Szalasi was one of these Turkish friend National Socialists.He even defended that Jesus was a Turanian.

[Szegedist]

Szálasi was indeed a Turanist, but this does not change the fact that there are Hungarians who dislike Turks, many of these are "White Nationalists", but also people who haven't forgiven the Ottoman Wars. I know for a fact that they exist, I am not making it up. I have also spoken to Turks who dislike Hungarians, some who say things like "We fcked you in Mohács 1526".

[Murat ÖZCAN]

Szálasi was indeed a Turanist, but this does not change the fact that there are Hungarians who dislike Turks, many of these are "White Nationalists", but also people who haven't forgiven the Ottoman Wars. I know for a fact that they exist, I am not making it up. I have also spoken to Turks who dislike Hungarians, some who say things like "We fcked you in Mohács 1526".

There is a belief in some National Socialists.They believe in Turanid is not mongoloid,They say turanid race is white.I think LAntos Janos who is leader of Pax Hungarica is one of these,but he says Turks are white like them.

[Issy]

This is quite fascinating.

Do all these tribes share a common culture/belief that goes back in time and how long ago?

I would love to go see it sometime.

[Dasr]

errrrr

[Géza]

There is a belief in some National Socialists.They believe in Turanid is not mongoloid,They say turanid race is white.I think LAntos Janos who is leader of Pax Hungarica is one of these,but he says Turks are white like them.

Lantos János is not the leader of the Pay Hungarica, just of the leadership. They are rather an isolated neo-Hungarist movement without any usefull reaction to nowadays problem. They reject the democracy. This is a World Ware Era fan club, no more. Turks look Middle-Eastern, not European.



This is correct. Thankfully the Western oriented 'nationalists', the ones who try to "prove" that the Huns were blonde haired and blue eyed are a minority, with no real political presentation.

Such groups exist, like the MNA, who see our neigbours as our brothers and Jobbik, HVIM as "chauvinist Jewish provocateurs"

These often attack our Eastern Cousins, and give us a bad name.

http://ujszo.com/files/imagecache/story_image/files/ujszo_1286741335_24.jpg
http://szentkoronaradio.com/files/kom2a2.jpg

http://ahojkomarno.sk/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/szlovak-magyar-megmozdulas-nepek-bekejeert3.jpg
http://kuruc.info/r/6/103580/


You have forgotten the MNA forced mostly the Eastern-Opening. They are absolutely Russia- and China-fans.

[Hoca]

I would love to be there. I totally imagine myself on one of those horses. :D

[Murat ÖZCAN]

Lantos János is not the leader of the Pay Hungarica, just of the leadership. They are rather an isolated neo-Hungarist movement without any usefull reaction to nowadays problem. They reject the democracy. This is a World Ware Era fan club, no more. Turks look Middle-Eastern, not European.





You have forgotten the MNA forced mostly the Eastern-Opening. They are absolutely Russia- and China-fans.


Middle Eastern looking,because of Arabic mix.Iranians look middle eastern,too.And not just PAx Hungarica,remember Györgi Ekrem Kemal.He was a national socialist,too.And he was Turkish.

[Onur]

remember Györgi Ekrem Kemal.He was a national socialist,too.And he was Turkish.
I googled this name because it`s Turkish and wth! A Turkish guy leading a rightist Hungarian political movement and sentenced for trying to organize a coup d`etat to the government?!!!

Who is this Turkish named guy, i am surprised because i have never heard of him before! Tell me more about this guy, wikipedia doesn't say much.

[Murat ÖZCAN]

I googled this name because it`s Turkish and wth! A Turkish guy leading a rightist Hungarian political movement and sentenced for trying to organize a coup d`etat to the government?!!!

Who is this Turkish named guy, i am surprised because i have never heard of him before! Tell me more about this guy, wikipedia doesn't say much.


These are sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gy%C3%B6rgy_Ekrem-Kem%C3%A1l http://www.yeniaktuel.com.tr/dun109,65@2100.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-SXIruKtCo

PAy attention green shirts in Youtube video

[Murat ÖZCAN]

http://kuruc.info/t/34/ also look at the "Turania ad" in this site.On the right side.

[Onur]

These are sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gy%C3%B6rgy_Ekrem-Kem%C3%A1l http://www.yeniaktuel.com.tr/dun109,65@2100.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-SXIruKtCo

PAy attention green shirts in Youtube video
Thanks. I found this one too;


Kemal, Aktüel dergisine ay başında verdiği bir demeçte "Babam Üsküp doğumlu bir Türk'tü. Bana Türkçe öğretirdi. Ancak ben 12 yaşındaykan astılar. O zamanlar tüm ailem Türkçe konuşurdu" dedi. Türk ve Macar halklarının kardeş olduğunu söyleyen Ekrem İstanbul'da yaşayan büyük amcasını sık sık ziyaret ettiğini söylüyor.
http://arsiv.sabah.com.tr/2006/10/17/dun109.html

This is quite interesting for me.

[adsız]

Grand-Kurultáj



Website: http://kurultaj.hu/english/
Pictures: http://www.facebook.com/kurultaj/photos_stream



http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/224368_214872885306494_80835503_n.jpg



This is a really good picture.

My contribution to the thread :

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/316868_131998570314484_1691685571_n.jpg

[Sui Generis]

I likeeed that videeeoo :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agQGTJtkdaY

[Sui Generis]

I likeeed this tooo. Is someone know first music in this video please ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1ZYTUh_hEo

[Qizilbash]

Hajra Turan, long live to the Great Kurultaj :)