Subraces in romance countries and other mediterranean countries

[Foxy]

Serious discussion. Please refrain from the usual disputes about who's lighter/ less maghrebin looking. Let's leave it to trolls.
Which subraces exist in the various romance countries?
My idea is (from most common to less common):

Italy
- alpinized med (large jaw, light skin, brunette hair, brunette/hazel eyes, rounding face, button nose)
- alpinized dinaromorphid med (like before, but longer face, taller stature and higher cheekbones + streight or convex nose)
- alpinized dinaromorphid atlanto-med (like before, but with bigger skeleton and a more robust skull)
- dinaro-med/ dinarid (dinaromorphid med: high, flat cheekbones, long face, dark pigmentation. Dinarid: like before but with a less med vibe)
- atlanto med (robust med with streight nose and large jaw)
- subnordid (light alpine) (large jaw, rounding face, chestnut/dark blonde hair, light eyes)
- norid (light dinarid, often blonde or dark blonde with light eyes, streight or convex nose)
- alpinid (squared face, large jaw, botton nose, stocky body and face, dark pigmentation, short stature)
- ...

Do you agree? I have the impression that in Italy we have also some pontid or mixed cases of pontids, but I am not able to spot this subraces and its characterists.

[Geminus]

I also think these are the main types of Italy.
Sorry for being a bit OT, but I would find it interesting to know how the racial types in Italy from Ancient Rome have changed compared to now.

[Prince Carlo]

I also think these are the main types of Italy.
Sorry for being a bit OT, but I would find it interesting to know how the racial types in Italy from Ancient Rome have changed compared to now.

Not much really excluding for few areas like Salento or Friul.

[finþaų]

"Typology" seems to suffer from a North European bias, as Mediterranean/South European types are more generalized and less diverse.

[Toretto]

Not much really excluding for few areas like Salento or Friul.

why?

[Sikeliot]

For Sicilians specifically it tends to be various combinations of Dinarid, Gracile Med, East Med, and Alpine.

[Prince Carlo]

why?

According to some you are basically medieval Greek immigrants.

[Sikeliot]

Pontid may not have existed in Greece when the migration happened though.

[Toretto]

According to some you are basically medieval Greek immigrants.

different from Sicily and Calabria then ? I'm ignorant in matters
thank you for the answer

[Sikeliot]

different from Sicily and Calabria then ? I'm ignorant in matters
thank you for the answer

Calabrese are close to purely ancient Greek. I'd bet you the people you see there now are the same people that were there 2000 years ago.

Sicilians are mostly Greek but with a pull toward the Levant and an equally strong pull in the opposite direction from the Normans, so it balances out. After the Moors were expelled, Italians from Campania, Calabria, and other nearby southern regions moved there to replace them, which in turn brought both Italic and Greek influences in again, both of which were already there.

[Peyrol]

I also think these are the main types of Italy.
Sorry for being a bit OT, but I would find it interesting to know how the racial types in Italy from Ancient Rome have changed compared to now.

Not so much excluding rhaeticized slovenians in Friuli, slightly more nordids in the north (and in some southern parts) and some exotical typologies in some southern zones.

[Prince Carlo]

Sicilians are mostly Greek but with a pull toward the Levant and an equally strong pull in the opposite direction from the Normans, so it balances out. After the Moors were expelled, Italians from Campania, Calabria, and other nearby southern regions moved there to replace them, which in turn brought both Italic and Greek influences in again, both of which were already there.

After the expulsion of the arabs many Northern and Central italians settled in Sicily and Malta.

[Foxy]

After the expulsion of the arabs many Northern and Central italians settled in Sicily and Malta.

I didn't know this. Source?


"Typology" seems to suffer from a North European bias, as Mediterranean/South European types are more generalized and less diverse.

I agree. Take for example the atlanto med proper: I think that besides it, there are at least two variations of atlanto-med. The Italian one and the Portuguese one. I find that both these deviates a bit from the basic atlanto-med, but we don't have anything better to classify them.

[Sikeliot]

I didn't know this. Source?



I agree. Take for example the atlanto med proper: I think that besides it, there are at least two variations of atlanto-med. The Italian one and the Portuguese one. I find that both these deviates a bit from the basic atlanto-med, but we don't have anything better to classify them.

I've always wondered if the Italian "Atlanto-Med" type is more properly a type of Pontid, since it doesn't resemble an Atlanto-Med from further west.

[Comte Arnau]

What subtypes of Atlanto-Med are the Italian and the Portuguese?

Atlanto-Med prevails more in the Catalan Countries than in Portugal or Italy anyway.

[Damião de Góis]

What subtypes of Atlanto-Med are the Italian and the Portuguese?

Atlanto-Med prevails more in the Catalan Countries than in Portugal or Italy anyway.

"Atlanto-Meds" from those three places look different, so i'm not sure what we are comparing here.

[Comte Arnau]

"Atlanto-Meds" from those three places look different, so i'm not sure what we are comparing here.

Well, since we are in the middle, you will be the deviated types. :D


"Typology" seems to suffer from a North European bias, as Mediterranean/South European types are more generalized and less diverse.

Had typologic authors been originally and predominantly Southern, there'd more accuracy for the Southern types and Northerners would be seen as more generalized and less diverse.

[Sikeliot]

Judging from the people I saw while looking up people for a thread I made, Piedmont has a lot of Dinaro-Nordo-Med types.

[WOOHP]

Ok so I'm gonna try with Occitania because I kow the place quite well.

Not in a particular order:

Alpine + North Atlantid
Sub-Nordid
Atlanto-Med + Alpine
Dinarid + Sub Nordid
Atlantid