The Greek-Cypriot-Israeli alliance

[drogin]

http://news.pseka.net/uploads/img/cyprus_greece_israel.gif

The Greek-Cyprus connection is old, but in the last years Israel are also connected. Israel have been developing extensive military cooperation between the 3 countries, and substantial economic deals.

Among them, israeli air force operating in Cyprus and Greek airspace, and an agreement of division and protection of common oil and gas fields.

Qj9kQgoCTRM


This of course, at the expense of Turkey.
What do you think about the developments of the last years?

To me they seem logical.
Israel helped Turkey for many years, but Turkey just increased their rethorics and anti-israeli politics.

And Greece used to be strong supporters of the palestinian cause, yet the arab world consistently voted in favor of their muslim Turkish brother in the UN.
Atleast to me things look more natural now :P

[Incal]

I applaud this alliance even when I don't trust jews.

[Hayalet]

Israel helped Turkey for many years
How?

[Anglojew]

It's an excellent alliance. It also allows the allies to bring in Kurdistan, Armenia, Serbia and others.

It will radically change the balance of power in the East Med. It makes a lot of sense with Turkey going in a jihadist direction.

[Hayalet]

^ What does anything have to do with Armenia or Serbia?

[Philo]

^ What does anything have to do with Armenia or Serbia?

They're both anti-turks;).
Turkey lost an important ally(Israel) and now there's an anti-turkish alliance evolving against them. Stupid move in my opinion for the turks to dump israel and become a Moslem nation, throwing the Kamelist reforms in the garbage.

[drogin]

It seems Israel openly say they will protect Greek Cyprus with military force if necessary.

Israel’s Deputy Foreign Minister, Danny Ayalon stated that “Israel will defend Greek oil drilling in Cyprus” and added, “If anyone (Turkey or Hezbollah, JP) tries to challenge these drillings, we will meet those challenges.” It was agreed between the two deputy Foreign Ministers that Greece and Israel have common strategic interests in energy and energy security.
http://frontpagemag.com/2011/joseph-puder/greece-and-israel-reluctant-allies/2/

[Anglojew]

It seems Israel openly say they will protect Greek Cyprus with military force if necessary.

Israel’s Deputy Foreign Minister, Danny Ayalon stated that “Israel will defend Greek oil drilling in Cyprus” and added, “If anyone (Turkey or Hezbollah, JP) tries to challenge these drillings, we will meet those challenges.” It was agreed between the two deputy Foreign Ministers that Greece and Israel have common strategic interests in energy and energy security.
http://frontpagemag.com/2011/joseph-puder/greece-and-israel-reluctant-allies/2/

http://samsonblinded.org/newsru/wp-content/uploads/HLIC/c2c355d520233cd80f9999261a7d5d22.gif

[Annihilus]

It's an excellent alliance. It also allows the allies to bring in Kurdistan, Armenia, Serbia and others.

It will radically change the balance of power in the East Med. It makes a lot of sense with Turkey going in a jihadist direction.

Who gives a fuck about East Med (or Middle East) Asia matters now

[Pontios]

Israel and Greece alliance??? NEVER!

[Hayalet]

They're both anti-turks;)
But what does this topic have to do with them? For example, Israel has been making overtures towards Azerbaijan to use her against Iran. Are you suggesting we are about to find Armenia and Azerbaijan in the same bloc? :lol:


Turkey lost an important ally(Israel) and now there's an anti-turkish alliance evolving against them. Stupid move in my opinion for the turks to dump israel and become a Moslem nation, throwing the Kamelist reforms in the garbage.
You seem confused. Kemalist reforms have nothing to do with Israel and they are still standing. And secular nationalist Kemalists aren't really fond of Israel any more than Islamists.

[Yalquzaq]

Indeed. Any kind of relations betweeen Israel and Armenia are simple not possible as long as relations exist between Azerbaijan and Israel. This comes from the fact that Israel-Azerbaijani relations are a bit special, the only other country that Azerbaijan has such "special" relations with are Turkey (and which is a bit ironic when you look at the current relations between Turkey and Israel). But I would not call it "Israel making overtunes to use Azerbaijan against Iran", the relations are based on mutual interests. If someone is referring to the supposed reports about Israel's supposed plans of launching attacks on Iran from Azerbaijan, I must say that is nothing else than BS.

http://www.news.az/articles/politics/59271

[The Illyrian Warrior]

It's an excellent alliance. It also allows the allies to bring in Kurdistan, Armenia, Serbia and others.

It will radically change the balance of power in the East Med. It makes a lot of sense with Turkey going in a jihadist direction.

You support serbia?!!!....if so albanians made a fu.... mistake saving your asses in WW2 and still supporting you.

[Scholarios]

It's time for a change, I guess. Turkey's loss is Greece's gain.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

It seems Israel openly say they will protect Greek Cyprus with military force if necessary.

Israel’s Deputy Foreign Minister, Danny Ayalon stated that “Israel will defend Greek oil drilling in Cyprus” and added, “If anyone (Turkey or Hezbollah, JP) tries to challenge these drillings, we will meet those challenges.” It was agreed between the two deputy Foreign Ministers that Greece and Israel have common strategic interests in energy and energy security.
http://frontpagemag.com/2011/joseph-puder/greece-and-israel-reluctant-allies/2/
But israel than dont have a f... future either, all islamic state + turkey against mini-state and inside that mini-state live a fast growing muslim population see if they have any chance.......althought i was bloody naive as i supported jews but if they keep alliance with our enemies like greeks and serbs, why should we support jews than, no reasons anymore........................................But let jews fight for greeks, dont care and dont wish them well either.

[Pontios]

It's time for a change, I guess. Turkey's loss is Greece's gain.

Ioannis Metaxas' Megali idea will finally be fulfilled :D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/ParisPeace-Venizelos-Map.png

[Philo]

Israel and Greece alliance??? NEVER!

Are you butthurt about the fact that we killed 200,000 greeeks in 115-117 CE?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitos_War
Get over it son:tongue


You seem confused. Kemalist reforms have nothing to do with Israel and they are still standing. And secular nationalist Kemalists aren't really fond of Israel any more than Islamists.
Army was the one who kept the country secular. Erdogan is slowly but surely taking over the last place of secularism in the regime.
Note that i'm not living in turkey so i'm not an expert on turkey matters.


You support serbia?!!!....if so albanians made a fu.... mistake saving your asses in WW2 and still supporting you.
LOL When I went to croatia I met a serb who told me that his grandfather saved Jews in WW2. Just saying that ther are alot of individual cases.
But is there an animosity between serbs and albanians? I never heard of that.


But what does this topic have to do with them? For example, Israel has been making overtures towards Azerbaijan to use her against Iran. Are you suggesting we are about to find Armenia and Azerbaijan in the same bloc? :lol:
I don't think those relations will last long. I read about the fact that Azeri citizens are very pro-iran(many of them live in iran also but you obviously already know that). Those relations will probably not last long.

[Hayalet]

Army was the one who kept the country secular.
No.


Erdogan is slowly but surely taking over the last place of secularism in the regime.
The constitution was the first place of secularism in the regime when Erdogan came into office and it still is.


Note that i'm not living in turkey so i'm not an expert on turkey matters.
You don't say.

[Philo]

No.


The constitution was the first place of secularism in the regime when Erdogan came into office and it still is.


You don't say.

OK:bored:

[Anglojew]

You support serbia?!!!....if so albanians made a fu.... mistake saving your asses in WW2 and still supporting you.

I have no problem with Albania. I think their brand of Islam is very good compared to most of the others and appreciate their support during the war. My support for Serbia has nothing to do with Albania but more historic and geo-political reasons involving greater Balkans politics. I so support Serbian interests in both Bosnia and Kosovo though.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Wow...

So Jews just bumped the Turkish rep to the Kingdom come in the Arab (and greater Islamic) world, easing them access to 170 million strong vicinity market (+70 million more if Iran opens up) and dozens of states whose infrastructure needs constant multi billion dollar worth reconstructions and aid in resource extraction and placement on the world market.

Think of all the potential for this, an energy trade nexus in Istanbul like there already is London and New York, Iraq with it's vast oil reserves moving slowly away from Saudi and Iranian spheres of influence into Turkish domain, a Turkey based common currency for Middle East and with further adaption of Islamic character of Turkish state even the Kurdish problem would be marginalized with most of the Kurds accepting an Islamic meta-identity.

And in return, Israel allies few failed bankrupted states who with their combined populations and GDP don't outnumber greater Istanbul area...

The funniest or the saddest part of it, that ensuring the Turkish domination of ME wasn't a fruit of some decades long PR and diplomatic campaign done by the Turkish state over course of few successive governments but a side effect of Jews being Jews.

Good game, good game.

[drogin]

You support serbia?!!!....if so albanians made a fu.... mistake saving your asses in WW2 and still supporting you.
Well actually the relations between Israel and Serbia are not very good.

In my opinion, Israels most closest allies in Europe are:
- Cyprus
- Greece(although not as much as Cyprus)
- Bulgaria
- Albania
- Czech republic

When it comes to Albania and Serbia, Israel have far better relations with Albania than Serbia.
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/images/berish-IZRAEL.jpg
Albania’s leader has compared Iran’s President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, to Hitler:
“Ahmadinejad’s Nazi declarations should be a wake-up call that Iran’s nuclear program should be stopped by any means, as the greatest threat to peace and stability in the world,” he added.
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/israel-finds-new-cheerleader-in-albania-s-pm

[Anglojew]

Well actually the relations between Israel and Serbia are not very good.

In my opinion, Israels most closest allies in Europe are:
- Cyprus
- Greece(although not as much as Cyprus)
- Bulgaria
- Albania
- Czech republic

When it comes to Albania and Serbia, Israel have far better relations with Albania than Serbia.
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/images/berish-IZRAEL.jpg
Albania’s leader has compared Iran’s President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, to Hitler:
“Ahmadinejad’s Nazi declarations should be a wake-up call that Iran’s nuclear program should be stopped by any means, as the greatest threat to peace and stability in the world,” he added.
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/israel-finds-new-cheerleader-in-albania-s-pm

I'd add Italy and Poland and Denmark to the list. Possibly Germany too. Otherwise I don't consider any Western European Nations particularly friendly to Israel.

[Gospodine]

Otherwise I don't consider any Western European Nations particularly friendly to Israel.

Cry us a river.

[Yalquzaq]

I don't think those relations will last long. I read about the fact that Azeri citizens are very pro-iran(many of them live in iran also but you obviously already know that). Those relations will probably not last long.

And where have you read that? In fact, average ethnic Azerbaijani Turk from Republic of Azerbaijan has pretty negative view of Iran exactly because many of our brethern lives under opression in Iran.

Probably not just because you say so. :picard1:

BTW, Azerbaijan are up there as one of the most secular Muslim countries (and Azerbaijan Democratic Republic of 1918 was also the first ever democratic and secular Muslim country established).

[The Illyrian Warrior]

I have no problem with Albania. I think their brand of Islam is very good compared to most of the others and appreciate their support during the war. My support for Serbia has nothing to do with Albania but more historic and geo-political reasons involving greater Balkans politics. I so support Serbian interests in both Bosnia and Kosovo though.

So your against existence of my Independent country, its same your against Albania too, cause we are albanians as well. Btw what historic reasons you are connected with serbia from what i know serbia killed more jews than any balkan nation in WW2 still is very anti-semitic country but thank God its just your individual opinion and nothing else.

[drogin]

And where have you read that? In fact, average ethnic Azerbaijani Turk from Republic of Azerbaijan has pretty negative view of Iran exactly because many of our brethern lives under opression in Iran.

Probably not just because you say so. :picard1:

BTW, Azerbaijan are up there as one of the most secular Muslim countries (and Azerbaijan Democratic Republic of 1918 was also the first ever democratic and secular Muslim country established).
Indeed, the ties between Israel and Azerbaijan are strong.
Turkey have tried to make Azerbaijan choose between Israel and Turkey.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4127332,00.html

However, the Azerbaijani government have not given in to the Turkish pressure.
Which says quite alot about how strong the ties are, because Turkey have a lot of influence and respect in Azerbaijan. The two countries are like brothers.

Actually, according to wikileaks,
The Azerbaijani president say he will prefer to work with Israel instead of Turkey. He said Turkey is moving away from being a secular country and into becoming a islamist country. He also critizised Turkey for supporting terrorists and Iran.
http://azerireport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2922

He noted that Turkey was in essence supporting pro-Iranian forces by siding with Hamas. "This will ruin everything that Turkey has built in its relations with Israel, including excellent economic, military and intelligence cooperation . . . With Turkey having this position, it is difficult for us to continue our joint foreign policy," the President commented.

[Incal]

But israel than dont have a f... future either, all islamic state + turkey against mini-state and inside that mini-state live a fast growing muslim population see if they have any chance.......althought i was bloody naive as i supported jews but if they keep alliance with our enemies like greeks and serbs, why should we support jews than, no reasons anymore........................................But let jews fight for greeks, dont care and dont wish them well either.

As long as the US keep supporting Israel, then it'll always have a chance. Real politics.

[drogin]

Israels defense minister, Ehud Barak visit the Hellenic Army :thumb001:
zKpAlbbBeQE

[Philo]

Well actually the relations between Israel and Serbia are not very good.

In my opinion, Israels most closest allies in Europe are:
- Cyprus
- Greece(although not as much as Cyprus)
- Bulgaria
- Albania
- Czech republic

When it comes to Albania and Serbia, Israel have far better relations with Albania than Serbia.
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/images/berish-IZRAEL.jpg
Albania’s leader has compared Iran’s President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, to Hitler:
“Ahmadinejad’s Nazi declarations should be a wake-up call that Iran’s nuclear program should be stopped by any means, as the greatest threat to peace and stability in the world,” he added.
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/israel-finds-new-cheerleader-in-albania-s-pm
I agree especailly with Czech Republic. In the vote for weather "palestine" should be an observer in the EU Czech Republic was the only country from europe to vote against the palis. BTW alot of czech people has an identical surname to mine:).

[legolasbozo]

israel is ally of Us like us. So without their permission, they are nothing. Jews are helped us for lobbying, i mean they just used "Armenian genocide" trump card they made an artificial tension towards Turks in US, and they easily defeat it. They just wanted to prove "without jews, you are nothing" but tayyip erdogan just challenged them, and you can see what's going on. İ think Greeks just try to survive of the crisis. So they are trying to get along with everybody include us, but honestly they prefer Turks against israel. That's my opinion.

[Philo]

israel is ally of Us like us. So without their permission, they are nothing. Jews are helped us for lobbying, i mean they just used "Armenian genocide" trump card they made an artificial tension towards Turks in US, and they easily defeat it. They just wanted to prove "without jews, you are nothing" but tayyip erdogan just challenged them, and you can see what's going on. İ think Greeks just try to survive of the crisis. So they are trying to get along with everybody include us, but honestly they prefer Turks against israel. That's my opinion.

Yeah of course they prefer turks over israel:rolleyes:. You've been fighting with them for such long time while jews have not been formally fighting with them since 160's bc(hashmonean revolt). but even if you include the byzantine empire jews have'nt fought with them in a long ass time. Moreover, turks ar the one who brought down constantinople.

[legolasbozo]

Yeah of course they prefer turks over israel:rolleyes:. You've been fighting with them for such long time while jews have not been formally fighting with them since 160's bc(hashmonean revolt). but even if you include the byzantine empire jews have'nt fought with them in a long ass time. Moreover, turks ar the one who brought down constantinople.

We are their neighbour, not you. Germany and France almost extinguish each at WW2, but they are good allies now almost any case. İ hope you got the point.

[AkisGreece]

There is a cooperation.
Not an alliance.

[Philo]

We are their neighbour, not you. Germany and France almost extinguish each at WW2, but they are good allies now almost any case. İ hope you got the point.

If you say so.

[RussiaPrussia]

israel should make russian language official then we might approve

[Linet]

Feelings are usually making logic follow....
Cyprus got itself into crisis partly because it tryed to help Greece and we dragged them down...

In the case of Israel and Palestine things are messed up.
Greeks heart lies with the Palestinians since once upon a time, before Arabs to go there, they were our brenthen and also because we cant stand injustice. We have helped alot the Palestinian cause but when in frond of us they were so gratefull, in times of need they would always support Turkey against us, although it had never given a penny if they existed or no. Not till recently.
Arabs are ungreatfull and nothing can change that. No matter what you do for them they will support their fellow muslims....
I think it was about time for Greece to see its own benefit and interests and side with Israel. Cyprus did the start, thanks God they are cleverer than mainland Greeks, and so we had to follow....or else we wouldnt have this cooperation with the Israelis. No matter what Israel is a far reliable ally than Arabs are...

[Pontios]

Feelings are usually making logic follow....
Cyprus got itself into crisis partly because it tryed to help Greece and we dragged them down...

In the case of Israel and Palestine things are messed up.
Greeks heart lies with the Palestinians since once upon a time, before Arabs to go there, they were our brenthen and also because we cant stand injustice. We have helped alot the Palestinian cause but when in frond of us they were so gratefull, in times of need they would always support Turkey against us, although it had never given a penny if they existed or no. Not till recently.
Arabs are ungreatfull and nothing can change that. No matter what you do for them they will support their fellow muslims....
I think it was about time for Greece to see its own benefit and interests and side with Israel. Cyprus did the start, thanks God they are cleverer than mainland Greeks, and so we had to follow....or else we wouldnt have this cooperation with the Israelis. No matter what Israel is a far reliable ally than Arabs are...

Two religious countries who's religion goes against one another, to be in an alliance is very hard. On our flag we have a cross, on their flag they have the star. It is easier for us to be in alliance with Iran and Russia. At least Muslims accept Jesus like a prophet, Jews call Him things worse than an animal. They kill Christian and Muslim Palestinians everyday and killed Lebanese too. Those Palestinians aren't only Muslim, and the Lebanese aren't only Muslim either, a big portion of them are Orthodox.

[Linet]

Two religious countries who's religion goes against one another, to be in an alliance is very hard. On our flag we have a cross, on their flag they have the star. It is easier for us to be in alliance with Iran and Russia. At least Muslims accept Jesus like a prophet, Jews call Him things worse than an animal. They kill Christian and Muslim Palestinians everyday and killed Lebanese too. Those Palestinians aren't only Muslim, and the Lebanese aren't only Muslim either, a big portion of them are Orthodox.

Greeks are alot more than Orthodox....we are first Greeks, secondly Greeks.....fourth....Greeks and then Orthodox.....first comes my country... yes Orthodoxia is my religion and i feel close to the other Orthodox nations....but i see no reason to have problem with the Jews....

[MarkyMark]

The only alliance I see happening between Greece , Cyprus and a middle eastern country were if there is another civil war in Lebanon and the Maronites completely win or if Assad wins the war in Syria and much of the Arab population leaves of its own accord. Those two countries along with Greece and Cyprus could possibly be a serious threat to the Turks.

[kabeiros]

Two religious countries who's religion goes against one another, to be in an alliance is very hard. On our flag we have a cross, on their flag they have the star. Pontios, it's not the 50's anymore, Greece is not a very religious country and the star on Israel's flag doesn't bother us at all


It is easier for us to be in alliance with Iran and Russia. Come back to your senses man, what does Iran has to offer if we ally with them? I think co-operation with Israel should expand into other fields, like technology for example


At least Muslims accept Jesus like a prophet, Jews call Him things worse than an animal. They kill Christian and Muslim Palestinians everyday and killed Lebanese too. Those Palestinians aren't only Muslim, and the Lebanese aren't only Muslim either, a big portion of them are Orthodox. I don't give a fuck about those Arabs in the middle east as they don't give a fuck about us.
You are more Christian Orthodox than Greek....

[Pontios]

Greeks are alot more than Orthodox....we are first Greeks, secondly Greeks.....fourth....Greeks and then Orthodox.....first comes my country... yes Orthodoxia is my religion and i feel close to the other Orthodox nations....but i see no reason to have problem with the Jews....

I disagree. We are equally Orthodox as we are Greek because without one, there wouldn't be the other. Without Greeks there would be no Orthodoxy that we see today, and without Orthodoxy, there would be no Greeks today.

And even if we do accept them, do you think they are like us? Do you think they consider us as friends or allies and accept an alliance with us? What will this alliance bring good to, them or us? :confused: And what will other Orthodox countries think of us? What will Russia think of us? They do not let to pray in peace in Jerusalem and we are going with an alliance with them? I would rather have Greece stay in EU and in debt for the rest of its life than be in an alliance with Israhell.

[Linet]

I disagree. We are equally Orthodox as we are Greek because without one, there wouldn't be the other. Without Greeks there would be no Orthodoxy that we see today, and without Orthodoxy, there would be no Greeks today.

And even if we do accept them, do you think they are like us? Do you think they consider us as friends or allies and accept an alliance with us? What will this alliance bring good to, them or us? :confused: And what will other Orthodox countries think of us? What will Russia think of us? They do not let to pray in peace in Jerusalem and we are going with an alliance with them? I would rather have Greece stay in EU and in debt for the rest of its life than be in an alliance with Israhell.

If Christianity and Islam had never been in Greece i would be greatfull to God...
Christianity, before to establish, tryed to erase Hellenism from the face of the earth....i dont forgive that.... many Greeks dont....we are raised as Christians and we are into a paranoia of half self pity....so dont make me start....
We succeded to create a new civilisation through religion, Byzantium....but Byzantium was a very cheap subtitude of what had been destroyed....
Yes...i support Orthodoxia....i do.....its part of my past....i would give my life to support it for the very same reason....but i wish i never knew it....

PS Dont worry, Russians are clever people...they already supported Cyprus to its decisiion and Russian ships are guarding the Cypriots seashores that very moment....

[Pontios]

Pontios, it's not the 50's anymore, Greece is not a very religious country and the star on Israel's flag doesn't bother us at all

And that is the problem, are we something lower than the Jews? Are we dumber or worse then the Jews? They have kept their religion for thousands of years and we cannot keep ours. They have been scattered all over Europe and they kept their religion, and we had 400 years of slavery and kept it, and when we created a country, we lost ours. It looks like the Greeks outside of Greece have to come to Greece to make your Greeks again, you seem to have lost everything that makes us Greek.

Come back to your senses man, what does Iran has to offer if we ally with them? I think co-operation with Israel should expand into other fields, like technology for example
Oil, weapons, and much more. They are like a self sufficient country and for them to have an ally, especially a European one, it will be the best thing for them and for us. And they are in close with Russia as well. Do you not understand this? What will Israhell give us? US weapons and technology that is 50 years old like they do today? They give us downgraded weapons that they have in the garbage while Russia gives us nice weapons that they have in service today. Russia has given us weapons many times for free, good weapons, not the garbage and leftovers that the US and friends have given us and they even charged us millions for their garbage.


You are more Christian Orthodox than Greek....
I am equally the same.

[Incal]

Feelings are usually making logic follow....
Cyprus got itself into crisis partly because it tryed to help Greece and we dragged them down...

In the case of Israel and Palestine things are messed up.
Greeks heart lies with the Palestinians since once upon a time, before Arabs to go there, they were our brenthen and also because we cant stand injustice. We have helped alot the Palestinian cause but when in frond of us they were so gratefull, in times of need they would always support Turkey against us, although it had never given a penny if they existed or no. Not till recently.
Arabs are ungreatfull and nothing can change that. No matter what you do for them they will support their fellow muslims....
I think it was about time for Greece to see its own benefit and interests and side with Israel. Cyprus did the start, thanks God they are cleverer than mainland Greeks, and so we had to follow....or else we wouldnt have this cooperation with the Israelis. No matter what Israel is a far reliable ally than Arabs are...

Wise words moraki. The bolded part just made me remember a story a christian lebanese from Australia told me about muslims. One day with more time I'll share it.

[Pontios]

If Christianism and Islam had never been in Greece i would be greatfull to God...
Christianity, before to establish, tryed to erase Hellenism from the face of the earth....i dont forgive that.... many Greeks dont....we are raised as Christians and we are into a paranoia of half self pity....so dont make me start....
We succeded to create a new civilisation through religion, Byzantium....but Byzantium was a very cheap subtitude of what had been destroyed....
Yes...i support Orthodoxia....i do.....its part of my past....i would give my life to support it for the very same reason....but i wish i never knew it....

PS Dont worry, Russians are clever people...they already supported Cyprus to its decisiion and Russian ships are guarding the Cypriots seashores that very moment....

Orthodoxy made us people, what were we before Orthodoxy? We have orgy's with males and females in large groups and with each other, males with other males and females. Is that what you wish you had not lost? Do you want to go back to having battles in a Colosseum? Orthodoxy has only made us people and destroyed the sick things we used to do before to "worship the gods". Have you not seen our icons and what we used to do to our own people who were Orthodox? Lions against Christians in the arenas, have you not seen that? Is that what you want to go back to again? Lets face our pasts, we used to have barbaric things that we did before we became Orthodox. It might be hard to hear because we always think of ourselves as being the greatest, which we are :p, but we were not always the best people.

Today of course we still have Hellenism in us, but we are not Hellenes, we are Romans.

[Linet]

Wise words moraki. The bolded part just made me remember a story a christian lebanese from Australia told me about muslims. One day with more time I'll share it.

...i would love to know it :)... moraki :wink

[Linet]

Orthodoxy made us people, what were we before Orthodoxy? We have orgy's with males and females in large groups and with each other, males with other males and females. Do you want to go back to having battles in a Colosseum? Orthodoxy has only made us people and destroyed the sick things we used to do before to "worship the gods". Have you not seen our icons and what we used to do to our own people who were Orthodox? Lions against Christians in the arenas, have you not seen that? Is that what you want to go back to again? Lets face our pasts, we used to have barbaric things that we did before we became Orthodox. It might be hard to hear because we always think of ourselves as being the greatest, which we are :p, but we were not always the best people.

Lions in arenas :blink:? Are we still talking about Greeks? Or you want to talk about the entire ancient world :1099:?
No people, anywhere in the world till today, not even Greeks, have ever lived such a honorable and decent life like the Greeks of the past :old before Christianity :fpope: to come....

[Pontios]

Lions in arenas :blink:? Are we still talking about Greeks? Or you want to talk about the entire ancient world :1099:?
No people, anywhere in the world till today, not even Greeks, have ever lived such a honorable and decent life like the Greeks of the past :old before Christianity :fpope: to come....

Well I guess you prefer orgies, slaves, and battles to death in arenas... Whatever makes you happy. :wink

[Linet]

Well I guess you prefer orgies, slaves, and battles to death in arenas... Whatever makes you happy. :wink

Greeks DIDNT have arenas....:picard1:
....Please read what Christians did to Hellenes and what Theodocius the "Great", up to church, or Theodosiuc the Jerk up to me....did....learn also about the slaughter of Thessaloniki and other nice stuff.... and then come to tell me again...about civilisation....

[kabeiros]

And that is the problem, are we something lower than the Jews? Are we dumber or worse then the Jews? They have kept their religion for thousands of years and we cannot keep ours. A lot of Jews are not very religious you know, they are quite like us in that they respect their religion because it is a part of their cultural heritage and because it is what kept them distinct from other peoples for a very long time.


They have been scattered all over Europe and they kept their religion, and we had 400 years of slavery and kept it, and when we created a country, we lost ours. It looks like the Greeks outside of Greece have to come to Greece to make your Greeks again, you seem to have lost everything that makes us Greek. No, friend, Orthodoxy is part of my heritage and I don't denounce it or strongly oppose it but I have grown up and after reading all of the Old Testament and the Gospels I came to the conclusion that Yahweh is not God, Jews are not his chosen people and Jesus was not his son, neither was he resurrected. I simply don't believe the dogma.

[Philo]

And that is the problem, are we something lower than the Jews? Are we dumber or worse then the Jews? They have kept their religion for thousands of years and we cannot keep ours. They have been scattered all over Europe and they kept their religion, and we had 400 years of slavery and kept it, and when we created a country, we lost ours. It looks like the Greeks outside of Greece have to come to Greece to make your Greeks again, you seem to have lost everything that makes us Greek.

Oil, weapons, and much more. They are like a self sufficient country and for them to have an ally, especially a European one, it will be the best thing for them and for us. And they are in close with Russia as well. Do you not understand this? What will Israel give us? US weapons and technology that is 50 years old like they do today? They give us downgraded weapons that they have in the garbage while Russia gives us nice weapons that they have in service today. Russia has given us weapons many times for free, good weapons, not the garbage and leftovers that the US and friends have given us and they even charged us millions for their garbage.

I am equally the same.
Fixed.

[drogin]

While it's true that Jews are not found of Jesus, they does NOT kill christians nor do they cause them harm. All arabs in Israel does have issues with Israelis from time to time, because of the conflict, not because they are christians.

In fact, most Israelis I know tend to favor the christian arabs instead of the muslim ones, because the christian arabs are usually more peacful and hardworking/educated.

The Israeli deputy ambassador to Norway, George Deek, is a christian arab.

Regarding the christians in Lebanon which you mentioned, the Christian maronites in Israel and Lebanon are among the most Israel-friendly in the region. Especially the Kataeb/Phalangist and Ouwet political parties.
Those parties are a right wing(sometimes called facist) maronite christian parties, that have earlier been in a close alliance with Israel.

During the lebanese civil war, the palestinians tried taking the power in Lebanon away from the Christians and started a war between muslims and christians. The palestinians massacred whole christian villages and turned the churches into toilets, and warbases.(See "Damour massacre").

Israel was during the war supplying the christians with Israeli uniforms, weapons, tanks and money. When Israel invaded Lebanon(due to all the palestinian attacks originating from southern lebanon), Israel cleansed the christian towns of Palestinians and allowed the christians to return to their villages taken from them.

Bachir Gemayel, the united christian leader of Lebanon, was killed by Syrian and Palestinian terrorists. In revenge, the christians, together with israeli military support, wiped out a whole palestinian refugee camp from the face of the earth.

Christian leader Bachir Gemayel speaking about the palestinians, before he was killed by a bomb:
h92yK54jp0Q

A maronite christian video with pics from the civil war, and Israel:
zYzi0i_-ky4

Some marontie christians went further than just receiving aid and fighting alongside Israel. Some formed an Israeli-run christian militia in the south, separate from the previously mentioned(but also israeli-allied christians).
The christian SLA fought with Israel, securing christian dominance over southern Lebanon for more than 20 years.
When Israel pulled out of Lebanon, the militia was overrun by Hezbollah and Syrian/Lebanese forces. Israel allowed roughly 1000 lebanese christians to relocate to Israel, in order to escape the muslim wrath. And these militiamen live in Israel, as christians, to this day. Although hated by the muslim population of Israel, their lives are better than most arabs in Israel because Israel pay the christian militiamen military pensions. One of Israels most popular Arak(similar to Ouzo and Raki) brands are produced by christian lebanese, living in Israel.
Ah2NC7q0lxA

[Philo]

While it's true that Jews are not found of Jesus, they does NOT kill christians nor do they cause them harm. All arabs in Israel does have issues with Israelis from time to time, because of the conflict, not because they are christians.

In fact, most Israelis I know tend to favor the christian arabs instead of the muslim ones, because the christian arabs are usually more peacful and hardworking/educated.

The Israeli deputy ambassador to Norway, George Deek, is a christian arab.

Regarding the christians in Lebanon which you mentioned, the Christian maronites in Israel and Lebanon are among the most Israel-friendly in the region. Especially the Kataeb/Phalangist and Ouwet political parties.
Those parties are a right wing(sometimes called facist) maronite christian parties, that have earlier been in a close alliance with Israel.

During the lebanese civil war, the palestinians tried taking the power in Lebanon away from the Christians and started a war between muslims and christians. The palestinians massacred whole christian villages and turned the churches into toilets, and warbases.(See "Damour massacre").

Israel was during the war supplying the christians with Israeli uniforms, weapons, tanks and money. When Israel invaded Lebanon(due to all the palestinian attacks originating from southern lebanon), Israel cleansed the christian towns of Palestinians and allowed the christians to return to their villages taken from them.

Bachir Gemayel, the united christian leader of Lebanon, was killed by Syrian and Palestinian terrorists. In revenge, the christians, together with israeli military support, wiped out a whole palestinian refugee camp from the face of the earth.

Christian leader Bachir Gemayel speaking about the palestinians, before he was killed by a bomb:
h92yK54jp0Q

A maronite christian video with pics from the civil war, and Israel:
zYzi0i_-ky4

Some marontie christians went further than just receiving aid and fighting alongside Israel. Some formed an Israeli-run christian militia in the south, separate from the previously mentioned(but also israeli-allied christians).
The christian SLA fought with Israel, securing christian dominance over southern Lebanon for more than 20 years.
When Israel pulled out of Lebanon, the militia was overrun by Hezbollah and Syrian/Lebanese forces. Israel allowed roughly 1000 lebanese christians to relocate to Israel, in order to escape the muslim wrath. And these militiamen live in Israel, as christians, to this day. Although hated by the muslim population of Israel, their lives are better than most arabs in Israel because Israel pay the christian militiamen military pensions.
Ah2NC7q0lxA
You said it . I should also add that christians are being butchered all over the middle-east by their muslim neighbors, especailly now after the "arab spring". the only country with a steadily rising christian population in the middle-east is Israel. Which is pretty ironic when you think about it.

[Incal]

While it's true that Jews are not found of Jesus, they does NOT kill christians nor do they cause them harm. All arabs in Israel does have issues with Israelis from time to time, because of the conflict, not because they are christians.

In fact, most Israelis I know tend to favor the christian arabs instead of the muslim ones, because the christian arabs are usually more peacful and hardworking/educated.

The Israeli deputy ambassador to Norway, George Deek, is a christian arab.

Regarding the christians in Lebanon which you mentioned, the Christian maronites in Israel and Lebanon are among the most Israel-friendly in the region. Especially the Kataeb/Phalangist and Ouwet political parties.
Those parties are a right wing(sometimes called facist) maronite christian parties, that have earlier been in a close alliance with Israel.

During the lebanese civil war, the palestinians tried taking the power in Lebanon away from the Christians and started a war between muslims and christians. The palestinians massacred whole christian villages and turned the churches into toilets, and warbases.(See "Damour massacre").

Israel was during the war supplying the christians with Israeli uniforms, weapons, tanks and money. When Israel invaded Lebanon(due to all the palestinian attacks originating from southern lebanon), Israel cleansed the christian towns of Palestinians and allowed the christians to return to their villages taken from them.

Bachir Gemayel, the united christian leader of Lebanon, was killed by Syrian and Palestinian terrorists. In revenge, the christians, together with israeli military support, wiped out a whole palestinian refugee camp from the face of the earth.

Christian leader Bachir Gemayel speaking about the palestinians, before he was killed by a bomb:
h92yK54jp0Q

A maronite christian video with pics from the civil war, and Israel:
zYzi0i_-ky4

Some marontie christians went further than just receiving aid and fighting alongside Israel. Some formed an Israeli-run christian militia in the south, separate from the previously mentioned(but also israeli-allied christians).
The christian SLA fought with Israel, securing christian dominance over southern Lebanon for more than 20 years.
When Israel pulled out of Lebanon, the militia was overrun by Hezbollah and Syrian/Lebanese forces. Israel allowed roughly 1000 lebanese christians to relocate to Israel, in order to escape the muslim wrath. And these militiamen live in Israel, as christians, to this day. Although hated by the muslim population of Israel, their lives are better than most arabs in Israel because Israel pay the christian militiamen military pensions. One of Israels most popular Arak(similar to Ouzo and Raki) brands are produced by christian lebanese, living in Israel.
Ah2NC7q0lxA

Thank you very much for this piece of information. I always wondered how christian lebanese felt or reacted about all this, specially since I had a chat with a christian lebanese who told me nationality means shit to muslim lebs: They will always take sides with another muslims and not with a christian lebanese. It's a pity Lebanon and Israel don't have diplomatic relations (due to muslim pressure I'm sure).

[drogin]

Thank you very much for this piece of information. I always wondered how christian lebanese felt or reacted about all this, specially since I had a chat with a christian lebanese who told me nationality means shit to muslim lebs: They will always take sides with another muslims and not with a christian lebanese. It's a pity Lebanon and Israel don't have diplomatic relations (due to muslim pressure I'm sure).

No problem. I should add, during the civil war all the christians were allied with Israel. But today, there is no such ties anymore.
(Although christians from the right-wing parties could still favor Israel strongly).
The christians of Lebanon probably want to stay independent, and in any case they are not exactly "best buddies". Most christians will probably say the alliance was because it was neccecary for their survival.

But most Lebanese christians does not want wars with Israel, they just want to be left alone by Israel, Syria, Iran and everyone else. Which is fine with Israel, I think...this is kind of what Israel wants too.
But if the muslims attack the christians again, I think they would request help from Israel again.