Hungarian town fails to stop park being named after Hitler ally

[microrobert]

Hungarian town fails to stop park being named after Hitler ally

Residents of a small Hungarian town have failed to stop a park from taking on the name of the country's Nazi-allied wartime leader, after too few voters turned out for a referendum.

The park in Gyomro, on the outskirts of Budapest, was named after Miklos Horthy last year following a motion by the far-right nationalist Jobbik party, the third-largest in parliament.

Angry locals forced the referendum, but it was declared invalid after only 18 per cent of eligible voters cast ballots, the state news agency MTI reported.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/hungary/9784498/Hungarian-town-fails-to-stop-park-being-named-after-Hitler-ally.html

[Arrow Cross]

Although I'm no fan of Horthy, this certainly made me form a gleeful grin.

[The Ripper]

What's so wrong with Horthy? He was like the Mannerheim of Hungary.

[Arrow Cross]

I dunno, ask the wailing kikes and leftists. He refused to substantially address the Jewish question, personally intervened to prevent the disbandment and deportation of the Budapest ghetto and took the war effort half-heartedly at best, before trying to switch sides Italy- and Romania-style, escaping prosecution at the Nürnberg kangaroo court and earning the gratitude and support of many Jews from Hungary for the rest of his life.

And yet, this is how their modern descendants "honour" him. :lmao

http://www.hir24.hu/Root/Shared/Pictures/2012/05/16/horty.jpg

[Szegedist]

I dunno, ask the wailing kikes and leftists. He refused to substantially address the Jewish question, personally intervened to prevent the disbandment and deportation of the Budapest ghetto and took the war effort half-heartedly at best, before trying to switch sides Italy- and Romania-style, escaping prosecution at the Nürnberg kangaroo court and earning the gratitude and support of many Jews from Hungary for the rest of his life.

And yet, this is how their modern descendants "honour" him. :lmao


There are various theories about why he was so soft with Jews.
I have read in various sources that there were plans to deport them after the war, but I am not so sure about this.

Then there is the more likely reason:

As regards the Jewish problem, I have been an anti-Semite throughout my life. I have never had contact with Jews. I have considered it intolerable that here in Hungary everything, every factory, bank, large fortune, business, theater, press, commerce, etc. should be in Jewish hands, and that the Jew should be the image reflected of Hungary, especially abroad. Since, however, one of the most important tasks of the government is to raise the standard of living, i.e., we have to acquire wealth, it is impossible, in a year or two, to replace the Jews, who have everything in their hands, and to replace them with incompetent, unworthy, mostly big-mouthed elements, for we should become bankrupt. This requires a generation at least

Patai, p. 546




Horthy, rightfully so did not trust Hitler. Germans were not our friends, the Vienna awards were not an act of justice, or because they cared, but simply to bait us in their war effort. There were talks that Northern Transylvania would be returned to Romania after the war, depending on which ally proved to be more useful, Romania or Hungary.

And about "switching sides"


Today it is obvious to any sober-minded person that the German Reich has lost the war. All governments responsible for the destiny of their countries must draw the appropriate conclusions from this fact, for as a great German statesman, Bismarck, once said, "No nation ought to sacrifice itself on the altar of an alliance." … I decided to safeguard Hungary’s honour even against her former ally, although this ally, instead of supplying the promised military help, meant finally to rob the Hungarian nation of its greatest treasure, its freedom and independence. I informed a representative of the German Reich that we were about to conclude a military armistice with our former enemies and to cease all hostilities against them.

[Arrow Cross]

Politics is a quid pro quo game that gives nothing for free. But even then, regaining so much land, especially at the expense of Germany's other allies (Slovakia and Romania, with the latter providing a larger army than us and valuable oil fields) in exchange for allegiance was a fair deal. Certainly a much better deal than any other greater power in the last several hundred years has been willing to cut out for us. Sending our soldiers ill-trained and especially ill-equipped was the Hungarian administration's fault, and not the German one's (which supplied us with advanced war technology). The largely disastrous Axis military strategy applied on the Eastern Front, of course, is an altogether different question.

Many of Horthy's personal friends and "advisors" were also part-Jewish, which, combined with the afore quoted tendencies of industry and big business, made it inconvenient for him to act upon his noble promises of "Hungarian rebirth". Still, I suppose his actions from ~1919-'23 do merit some fair national respect.

[Szegedist]

Would you agree that Horthy was one of the better leaders we have had (certainly in the 20th century).


Off course, he was by no means perfect, and I disagree with many of his actions, but in 2013, Horthy statues and squares are certainly as right wing as we can get, hopefully this will change.


Horthy is not all to blame, he was not a politician, but more of a figurehead with power, many of the laws were passed by the Prime Minister.



Politics is a quid pro quo game that gives nothing for free. But even then, regaining so much land, especially at the expense of Germany's other allies (Slovakia and Romania, with the latter providing a larger army than us and valuable oil fields) in exchange for allegiance was a fair deal.
Correct, this is one of the reasons why Horthy was cautius and reluctant with the Vienna Awards, Germans were baiting, giving us an offer we couldn't refuse, but this would mean returning them a favour, which ended up costing us greatly (like you said, our Administration was to blame for this as well)


Perhaps we would have retained those lands if Horthy succeeded in 1944. To me, Hungary is more important than Germany who simply wanted to use us, and used our weaknesses to achieve this.
http://www.hazankert.com/.verbecsulet/slides/2008.febr11.jpg
They were not our "best friends", like many Hungarian nationalists seem to think(not talking about you specifically, but in general), and after the war, who knows how big of a knife they would have stuck in our back, and knowing them, a very big one.

[Arrow Cross]

Would you agree that Horthy was one of the better leaders we have had (certainly in the 20th century).
No contest there. His regime was much saner and healthier than anything that came after 1945, or in Austria-Hungary, for that matter.


Correct, this is one of the reasons why Horthy was cautius and reluctant with the Vienna Awards, Germans were baiting, giving us an offer we couldn't refuse, but this would mean returning them a favour, which ended up costing us greatly (like you said, our Administration was to blame for this as well)
It's easy for us in hindsight though. Back in 1938 (Vienna I), Germany was a superpower on the rise with a similar ideology and a very similar WWI fate of humiliation. In addition to our mutual trade interests, these factors made her a natural ally, something Gömbös (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyula_Gömbös) himself first recognized and acted upon. And in 1940 (Vienna II), it was the dominant power in Europe that stood undefeated after beating the mighty French army in a month. There was a good possibility that we'd greatly benefit from such an alliance. If we had won, we might even had been able to negotiate even more territories, since Yugoslavia ceased to exist and Romania would have been compensated with vast amounts of land in the Southern Ukraine.


Perhaps we would have retained those lands if Horthy succeeded in 1944. To me, Hungary is more important than Germany who simply wanted to use us, and used our weaknesses to achieve this.
None. The "ceasefire" settlement came after the Romanian betrayal and occupation of Northern Transylvania, too late by then for any post-war territorial claims. In addition, much like in the cases of Bulgaria, Romania and Finland, it entailed not only a cessation of hostilities against the Allied powers, but a declaration of war on Germany while its army was already being stationed in the country. It'd have meant the double destruction of Hungary, from both sides, in addition to forsaking our national and military honour.

We might be the eternal losers of modern history, we might be a robbed, mutilated, powerless little midget state, but I'm glad we at least managed to fall like heroes, in a way worthy of our ancestors.

[Szegedist]

It's easy for us in hindsight though. Back in 1938 (Vienna I), Germany was a superpower on the rise with a similar ideology and a very similar WWI fate of humiliation. In addition to our mutual trade interests, these factors made her a natural ally, something Gömbös (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyula_Gömbös) himself first recognized and acted upon. And in 1940 (Vienna II), it was the dominant power in Europe that stood undefeated after beating the mighty French army in a month. There was a good possibility that we'd greatly benefit from such an alliance.
Correct, at the time, having a pro German stance was greatly beneficial.
Although Italians were much more supportive of our cause, and were not a potential threat to our national sovereignty. Mussolini supported our Irredentism , and even offered to help against Romanians, their "so called" Roman brothers ;)

Off course, it was in Italy's interests for Hungary to be strong, to not let Germany have hegemony over all of Europe.

http://nemnemsoha.gportal.hu/portal/nemnemsoha/image/gallery/1253487182_36.jpghttp://nemnemsoha.gportal.hu/portal/nemnemsoha/image/gallery/1253488907_52.jpg



None. The "ceasefire" settlement came after the Romanian betrayal, too late by then for any post-war territorial claims. In addition, much like in the cases of Bulgaria, Romania and Finland, it entailed not only a cessation of hostilities against the Allied powers, but a declaration of war on Germany while its army was already being stationed in the country. It'd have meant the double destruction of Hungary, from both sides, in addition to forsaking our national and military honour.
You are right, 1944 was a very bad time to pull out, if it had to happen, 1942-1943 would have been a better time.
But it is debatable whether Hungary would have joined in the war against Germany. Horthy very much hated communists. But chances are he would have been deposed in place of a commie arse licker.



One of my issues is Poland. Had the Germans won, the only country we can trust and depend on would have ceased to exist, probably forever.
As a Hungarian, I simply cannot support this.
Also, I dislike countries, empires, that restrict our national freedom, if Germany did win WW2, we would most likely end up as an unofficial satellite state, as Germany would have been the undisputed master of Europe. (off course, the situation now is not much better, but there is enough room to work with)

[Arrow Cross]

Also, I dislike countries, empires, that restrict our national freedom, if Germany did win WW2, we would most likely end up as an unofficial satellite state, as Germany would have been the undisputed master of Europe. (off course, the situation now is not much better, but there is enough room to work with)

Alas, this is how the world works. There will always be major powers with their spheres of influence entailing smaller, weaker countries. We used to be one ourselves, up until 1490, but ever since, we have to choose an orientation.

And if we do, a nation with a healthy political system and very little interference in our internal affairs would certainly be the best choice. Such was Germany. Today's EU influences Hungarian domestic politics a lot more than the Third Reich did, and what an influence of cultural suicide it is! We can only hope for its collapse before our situation too becomes irreversible.