Horse Archery Thread

[bluesky]

What do you think about mounted archery?

[Onur]

What do you think about mounted archery?
Whats the point? Why would anyone hate it anyway?

The spirit of a bulgar awaken in you? :)

[bluesky]

Whats the point? Why would anyone hate it anyway?

The spirit of a bulgar awaken in you? :)

Yeah the spirit of the non-turkic white bulgars

[Magyar the Conqueror]

It was a good way of fighting.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Kalandozasok.jpg

[Onur]

It was a good way of fighting.
Yes indeed;

2yorHswhzrU

[Onur]

Muslim Arabian/Iranian expansion to the west has been stopped by the Khazar empire in 9th century and Arabs started to enslave Turks from Khazar lands, islamize them and use them as soldiers as a solution to that. This is what Arabs wrote about them in ~800 AD;

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8371/clipboard14l.jpg

books.google.com/books?id=7m0MAQAAIAAJ

[Soul System]

From what I recall, it required constant training from an early age on to become an archer, because specific muscles and of course accuracy had to develop.

If it is added to horseriding, we have a highly specialized warrior here. I guess nomads could develop these skills, but agricultural Europe would not have been able to, if only for the costs of horses. One horse took as much land to feed as was enough to feed a family of four peasants.

It was a form of fighting adapted for those who could have the skills and the equipment in the first place. And then it was devastating.

If I recall correctly, Native Americans were not horseback archers (for lack of a saddle) but rather mounted archers (using the horse as a means of transport but not a means of combat - correct me if I'm wrong !), and it required the first revolvers to finally get rid of the threat.

[Sarmatian]

From what I recall, it required constant training from an early age on to become an archer, because specific muscles and of course accuracy had to develop.

If it is added to horseriding, we have a highly specialized warrior here. I guess nomads could develop these skills, but agricultural Europe would not have been able to, if only for the costs of horses. One horse took as much land to feed as was enough to feed a family of four peasants.

It was a form of fighting adapted for those who could have the skills and the equipment in the first place. And then it was devastating.

If I recall correctly, Native Americans were not horseback archers (for lack of a saddle) but rather mounted archers (using the horse as a means of transport but not a means of combat - correct me if I'm wrong !), and it required the first revolvers to finally get rid of the threat.

Yes it required a lifetime passion and sufficient resources.

And yes, mounted archers where horses were used for means of combat only existed in Eurasian Steppes and included as far as I know Scythians, Sarmatians, Slavs, Turks and Mongols.

[Damião de Góis]

It was only effective in the open, in the stepes of Asian and Eastern Europe. That's why the Huns got their asses kicked by the Goths in the west.

[Sarmatian]

It was only effective in the open, in the stepes of Asian and Eastern Europe. That's why the Huns got their asses kicked by the Goths in the west.

It was effective everywhere but the west lack of resources to maintain it. So I'm pretty sure when Huns moved westwards they had to give up at least part of their mounted force.

[Damião de Góis]

It was effective everywhere but the west lack of resources to maintain it. So I'm pretty sure when Huns moved westwards they had to give up at least part of their mounted force.

Nope, like i said it was not effective in the forests of western europe. That's why no one ever used it. When the Huns fought the Goths in the forests of France they had no space do to their usual raids with their mounted archery units.

( I saw a documentary about this )

[Vesuvian Sky]

This thread is dedicated to the ways of Horse and Bow.:cool:

Back in the day some serious empires were made this way and horseback or "mounted" archery represents one of the earliest forms of speed plus projectile units in the history of mankind. It was therefore revolutionary for its time and one could argue modern tank units represent the mechanization of this ancient martial tradition.

Horse archery develops somewhere on the Eurasian steppes. It is not known when or where precisely, but some archaeologists postulate 1000 BC likely north of the Black Sea.

Horse archery traditions of Rome

During the Principate (27 BC – 284 AD) Rome begins to incorporate mounted archers into its Army. Roughly two thirds of all bowmen were foot and one third horse archers by this time. Some early archaeological evidence of Roman horse archery comes from Dura Europas mosaics:

http://imageshack.us/a/img803/8503/duraeuropos13.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img11/9111/duraeuropos1.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img705/5578/huntingscenemosaicantio.jpg


In Byzantine mosaics, we see the use of the thumbraw:

http://imageshack.us/a/img9/1282/gpmosaic1.jpg

Bronze thumbrings would have been used to draw the bow back like this:

http://imageshack.us/a/img69/9599/380325176835.jpg

Some reconstructions of Roman horse archers:

Pannonian
http://imageshack.us/a/img541/1622/equitessagittariiinfo.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img202/9105/equitessagittariiindige.jpg

Byzantine
http://imageshack.us/a/img443/3458/hippotoxotaiere.jpg

Western Roman
http://imageshack.us/a/img221/5007/equitessagittariiwre.jpg

[morski]

Obviously Tyurkic.:rolleyes:

[Vesuvian Sky]

Obviously Tyurkic.:rolleyes:

Origins of horseback archery? No.

Its likely Scythians or Cimmerians.

[Hayalet]

In Byzantine mosaics, we see the use of the thumbraw:

http://imageshack.us/a/img9/1282/gpmosaic1.jpg
Actually that seems like the Mediterranean draw:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Bow_Draw_en.svg

[Vesuvian Sky]

Actually that seems like the Mediterranean draw:


Actually you might be right there, its kinda hard for me to tell but I know Roman archers were trained w/ the thumbring but it may very well be the mosaic does indeed show a med. release.

[Vesuvian Sky]

This is why Kassai is a living god at 2:03:

2yorHswhzrU

[Onur]

This is why Kassai is a living god at 2:03:
Attila had an army of 50.000 horse archers like Kassai, probably most of them was better than Kassai because they were more experienced than him :thumb001:

just imagine the devastation they can cause :)

[Onur]

Muslim Arabian/Iranian expansion to the west has been stopped by the Khazar empire in 9th century and Arabs started to enslave Turks from Khazar lands, islamize them and use them as soldiers as a solution to their failure. This is what Arabs wrote about them in ~800 AD;


http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8371/clipboard14l.jpg

http://books.google.com/books?id=7m0MAQAAIAAJ

[Vesuvian Sky]

Interesting stuff Onur. I use the ring to shoot but to get the speed that Kassai gets one must practice with arrows in hand and use a med. release. Its funny because most associate the martial tradition with the ring but it seems Huns, Magyars, and Sassanids used fingered releases. I think sometimes Turks would use a fingered release as well but the Ottoman-Turkish bow is most associated remembered/with the thumb draw.


GqqStGeYsj8

[Scholarios]

Origins of horseback archery? No.

Its likely Scythians or Cimmerians.

Where did Japanese and Koreans get it from ?

[finþaų]

Being a noble Turanic man I have ordered my own composite bow. I'll save horse archery for later, though.

[Vesuvian Sky]

Where did Japanese and Koreans get it from ?

Good question.

This is sketchy territory but Japanese and Koreans ancestrally were probably part of the Proto-Altaic community many thousands of years ago. We don't know this for sure but the evidence that we have, while faint, suggests this more or less. So its not like such traditions would have been unknown to their most ancient ancestors if we accept this theory.

Important thing to keep in mind though, is both Korean and Japanese traditions seem to develop locally and uniquely as their bows deviate greatly from the steppe types that their ancestors may or may not have left behind. The Japanese Yumi seems to have emerged during the Kofu period while Korean traditions to 4th c. AD:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Horse_back_archery_AD_4C.jpg

[Vesuvian Sky]

Being a noble Turanic man I have ordered my own composite bow. I'll save horse archery for later, though.

Cool. Who'd you order it from?

[Vesuvian Sky]

Like it, naturally.

lol, there's another horse archery thread here.

[Permafrost]

AFAIK Scythians were the inventors of the stirrup, which enabled them to develop advanced horseback manouvres like horse archery. According to some sources, the Sarmatians were able to defeat them exclusively because of their own metallurgy skills, by making very sturdy armor which the Scythian arrows had a hard time to perforate. Afteir running out of arrows, the Sarmatian horsemen would impale them with very long spikes.

It is said that the Lechitic Slavs, forerunners of the Poles, inherited their l33t horse riding skills from their Sarmatian ancestors.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Pulling exercises

J1elaiu6aRc

A lot better strength exercises than those gay body building methods ..:thumb001:

[Arrow Cross]

I'll need to get into it when I'll have the necessary funds. It's in my blood.

[Vesuvian Sky]

I'll need to get into it when I'll have the necessary funds. It's in my blood.

May I recommend the following bowyers:

http://www.koreanarchery.org/classic/hwarangbow.html

http://www.cinnabarbow.com/marinerbows/

http://www.osmanliyaylari.com/

[Vesuvian Sky]

Something vital to horse archery (at least more so then English archery) is the ability to caste fast arrows. In this video, this guy is not demonstrating any horse archery but he's using techniques from "Saracen Archery" to achieve rapid fire. And yes this technique would have been used by mounted archers:

2zGnxeSbb3g