Why are some Ashkenazim Armenoid?

[7eleven]

Why are some Ashkenazim Armenoid? Armenoid is common in Armenia, Georgia, and Turkey. I see many Ashkenazim who are Mediterranid, Alpinid, and even Semitic looking. But why do some look Armenoid?

[Rouxinol]

Because the Khazars were converted to Judaism in the 8th century and later moved eastwards (to eastern Europe) when the Rus' came from the north. They are probably the main stock of the Ashkenazim, with several other mixtures. So today they look mainly Armenoid with Semitic, Indo-European and/or Turkic influences to varying degrees.

[Anglojew]

The original Jewish population was not from the Levant but migrated to "the promised land" from Sumeria/Kurdistan were people were a mixture of Northern Semites, Armenoids and Indo-Europeans.

http://www.bible-archaeology.info/images/haran_map.jpg

[Incal]

Because they didn't mix enough with euros.

[Anglojew]

Linking Turkic (Eurasian) Khazars to Armenoids is a bit of a stretch.

[Rouxinol]

Linking Turkic (Eurasian) Khazars to Armenoids is a bit of a stretch.

They moved from Central Asia to the Pontic steppe, which among others was inhabited by peoples of the Armenoid race. I was not linking them racially to Armenoids as if they were originally and racially Armenoids. But certainly there must have been mixing, so that some Jews display today Turkic features as well.

[Sikeliot]

Because some of their ancestry must be more Anatolian or from the Caucasus.. since Armenoid is not as common in the Levant.

[7eleven]

Because the Khazars were converted to Judaism in the 8th century and later moved eastwards (to eastern Europe) when the Rus' came from the north. They are probably the main stock of the Ashkenazim, with several other mixtures. So today they look mainly Armenoid with Semitic, Indo-European and/or Turkic influences to varying degrees.

But the Khazars were Turkic....not Armenoid

[Rouxinol]

But the Khazars were Turkic....not Armenoid

Yes, the Khazars were Turkic, but the mixture of the racial types found in the Khazar Kaghanate, especially in its southern portions, is heavily Armenoid influenced. I don't think they wiped out the area of its inhabitants when they moved there.

[Anglojew]

Another group with the same name are todays Hazar's in Afganistan;

http://sadani.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/haz4.jpg

http://ncowie.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/hazara-hdr1.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Hazara_oldman.jpg

[aherne]

The original Jewish population was not from the Levant but migrated to "the promised land" from Sumeria/Kurdistan were people were a mixture of Northern Semites, Armenoids and Indo-Europeans.

http://www.bible-archaeology.info/images/haran_map.jpg

Problem is in those regions today Armenoids are rare. A fair explanation would be that native Assyrians/Armenians have been driven away and replaced with Kurds, who originate from Zagros Mountains and had no Armenoids.

Somewhat supporting your claim is that those regions were inhabited by Hurrians, who were blood relatives of Urartians, blood ancestors of Armenian people. This would make Armenoids simply the carriers of an old ethnic type that once also had an ethnolinguistic backing (same way as "Nordids" today carry the type of Aryans).

[Anglojew]

Problem is in those regions today Armenoids are rare. A fair explanation would be that native Assyrians/Armenians have been driven away and replaced with Kurds, who originate from Zagros Mountains and had no Armenoids.

Somewhat supporting your claim is that those regions were inhabited by Hurrians, who were blood relatives of Urartians, blood ancestors of Armenian people. This would make Armenoids simply the carriers of an old ethnic type that once also had an ethnolinguistic backing (same way as "Nordids" today carry the type of Aryans).

Mountains tend to create bottlenecks which ethnicities are driven to by succeeding waves of immigrants eg. basques. Between various Turkic, Arab, Persian, Mongol and other migrations to the region it might not be the same as in ancient times but nevertheless it's very close to Judea geographically especially if you compare the wanderings of the Indo-Europeans.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Khazars and Afghanistan Hazara's are different tribes and not related .
Afghan Hazara's are of Babur's descendants -might be of Ethnic Mongol ,despite their origins are still debatable .


Babur, the founder of the Mughul Empire in the early 16th century, records the name Hazara in Baburnama. He referred to the populace of Hazarajat, located west of Kabul, as far as Ghor, Ghazni and Quetta.The word Hazara most likely derives from the Persian word for Thousand (Persian: هزار‎ - hazār). It may be the translation of the Mongol word ming (or minggan), a military unit of 1000 soldiers at the time of Gengis Khan.With time, the term Hazar could have been substituted for the Mongol word and now stands for the group of people.

[Anglojew]

Khazars and Afghanistan Hazara's are different tribes and not related .
Afghan Hazara's are of Babur's descendants -might be of Ethnic Mongol ,despite their origins are still debatable .

It's just my theory but thanks.

[Philo]

according to anthropologists, the armenoid type is common in syria and turkey. alot of people got converted to judaism from those regions in roman times. That should asnwer yourr question.

[7eleven]

Yes it seems Ashkenazim have a lot of Hurrian ancestry.

[Philo]

Yes it seems Ashkenazim have a lot of Hurrian ancestry.

Nah lol. Not that old. Hurrians disappeared ~3300 years ago(incorporated into the Hittites). Jewish ancestry from anatolia and northern syria is usually 2000 years old(roman times):).

[aherne]

Nah lol. Not that old. Hurrians disappeared ~3300 years ago(incorporated into the Hittites). Jewish ancestry from anatolia and northern syria is usually 2000 years old(roman times):).

Conversion to Judaism was not a widespread phenomenon and affected mostly the cosmopolitan capital. Only two explanations exist:
1. they were acquired before the diaspora during Jews' wanderings in N Mesopotamia, which was at that time inhabited by Hurrians.
2. they are a coincidence, by virtue of combining Semitic and various European elements producing something that ONLY VAGUELY resembles Armenians.

I would think 2 is the most likely explanation: casts and reconstructions of Jews before diaspora show, quite predictably, a mixture of Semitic and Levantine elements, with the former predominant:
http://annabellepeake.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/modern-reconstruction-of-jesus1.jpg?w=640
This guy looks like brother of Yasser Arafat...

[Philo]

Conversion to Judaism was not a widespread phenomenon and affected mostly the cosmopolitan capital. Only two explanations exist:
1. they were acquired before the diaspora during Jews' wanderings in N Mesopotamia, which was at that time inhabited by Hurrians.
2. they are a coincidence, by virtue of combining Semitic and various European elements producing something that ONLY VAGUELY resembles Armenians.

I would think 2 is the most likely explanation: casts and reconstructions of Jews before diaspora show, quite predictably, a mixture of Semitic and Levantine elements, with the former predominant:
http://annabellepeake.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/modern-reconstruction-of-jesus1.jpg?w=640
This guy looks like brother of Yasser Arafat...
Idk I read that 6 million out of the 60 million people under roman influence were jews. Maybe it was'nt like that.
LMAO at your last sentence. And yes, ashkenazi jews are'nt that armenoid, it's usually mixed with some other element. Not nearly as armenoid as armenians.

[YeshAtid]

Because the Khazars were converted to Judaism in the 8th century and later moved eastwards (to eastern Europe) when the Rus' came from the north. They are probably the main stock of the Ashkenazim, with several other mixtures. So today they look mainly Armenoid with Semitic, Indo-European and/or Turkic influences to varying degrees.

That hypothesis has been disproved.

[gregorius]

armenoid in ashkenazis is different than the ones in caucasus

[Roy]

armenoid in ashkenazis is different than the ones in caucasus

I think this is misleading for many people. When someone notice Armenoid element they like to guess that this person could be fully or in part
a) Jewish (Ashkenazi usually)
b) Armenian

despite the fact that these groups of people look much different on average. Stereotypes are strong.

[YeshAtid]

I think this is misleading for many people. When someone notice Armenoid element they like to guess that this person could be fully or in part
a) Jewish (Ashkenazi usually)
b) Armenian

despite the fact that these groups of people look much different on average. Stereotypes are strong.
Indeed, most Azkhenazim don't have hooked noses, for example.

[Zroota]

I think this is misleading for many people. When someone notice Armenoid element they like to guess that this person could be fully or in part
a) Jewish (Ashkenazi usually)
b) Armenian

despite the fact that these groups of people look much different on average. Stereotypes are strong.
Funny thing is, and that's why I wanted to post here, is that many Armenians are not even Armenoid. I'd say around 40% or much less would be bona fide Armenoids. As the OP suggests, many Jews tend to be classified as Armenoid. And I'd wager that there are far more Jews, alongside Assyrians and other indigenous Levantines and Mesopotamians, who have greater concentration of Armenoid than Armenians and other Caucasus peoples do. As such, I demand a name change for Armenoid - Hebraic? Semitoid? Levantid? You tell me.

I wonder, did physical anthropologists base "Armenoid" on Armenian Jews or other Semites living there? After all, Armenia has had Jews and Assyrians living there in the past. Besides, this male Armenoid example does look pretty Jewish or classical Syrid (and many Armenians don't look as such):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Armenoid_Armenian.jpg

I don't know, but is the term "Armenoid" really accurate and justified, since more non-Armenian peoples tend to be Armenoid than actual Armenians?

[FinalFlash]

Funny thing is, and that's why I wanted to post here, is that many Armenians are not even Armenoid. I'd say around 40% or much less would be bona fide Armenoids. As the OP suggests, many Jews tend to be classified as Armenoid. And I'd wager that there are far more Jews, alongside Assyrians and other indigenous Levantines and Mesopotamians, who have greater concentration of Armenoid than Armenians and other Caucasus peoples do. As such, I demand a name change for Armenoid - Hebraic? Semitoid? Levantid? You tell me.

I wonder, did physical anthropologists base "Armenoid" on Armenian Jews or other Semites living there? After all, Armenia has had Jews and Assyrians living there in the past. Besides, this male Armenoid example does look pretty Jewish or classical Syrid (and many Armenians don't look as such):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Armenoid_Armenian.jpg

I don't know, but is the term "Armenoid" really accurate and justified, since more non-Armenian peoples tend to be Armenoid than actual Armenians?

But but Coon said it is. :D

Contrary to what the name suggests, the majority of us in my experience don't possess the phenotype that you've posted, especially those of us from Armenia and the Caucasus region. Those who do possess Armenoid traits are usually hybridized with another type(as you've noticed by now). As a matter of fact, based on the photos you've posted of your compatriots, I don't even think that type is the most widespread among you either.

[Zroota]

But but Coon said it is. :D

Contrary to what the name suggests, the majority of us in my experience don't possess the phenotype that you've posted, especially those of us from Armenia and the Caucasus region. Those who do possess Armenoid traits are usually hybridized with another type(as you've noticed by now). As a matter of fact, based on the photos you've posted of your compatriots, I don't even think that type is the most widespread among you either.
Coon was right about the phenotype (such faces/skull shape associated with "Armenoids" do exist), but completely wrong with the naming. :p

I would agree. I think many of us are more Med, Alpine, Syrid and even Taurid than true blue Armenoid.