Germany and EU to Legalise Paedophilia

[Sol Invictus]

John-Henry Westen
LifeSiteNews.com

BERLIN, July 30, 2007(LifeSiteNews.com) - Booklets from a subsidiary of the German government's Ministry for Family Affairs encourage parents to sexually massage their children as young as 1 to 3 years of age. Two 40-page booklets entitled "Love, Body and Playing Doctor" by the German Federal Health Education Center (Bundeszentrale für gesundheitliche Aufklärung - BZgA) are aimed at parents - the first addressing children from 1-3 and the other children from 4-6 years of age.

"Fathers do not devote enough attention to the clitoris and vagina of their daughters. Their caresses too seldom pertain to these regions, while this is the only way the girls can develop a sense of pride in their sex," reads the booklet regarding 1-3 year olds. The authors rationalize, "The child touches all parts of their father's body, sometimes arousing him. The father should do the same.

Canadian author and public speaker Michael O'Brien who has written and spoken extensively about the crisis of culture in the West spoke to LifeSiteNews.com about the shocking and extremely disturbing phenomenon. It is, he said, "State-encouraged incest, which in most civilized societies is a crime." The development is, he suggests, a natural outcome of the rejection of the Judeo-Christian moral order.

Full Article (http://www.tpuc.org/node/151)

[Loki]

"Fathers do not devote enough attention to the clitoris and vagina of their daughters. Their caresses too seldom pertain to these regions, while this is the only way the girls can develop a sense of pride in their sex," reads the booklet regarding 1-3 year olds. The authors rationalize, "The child touches all parts of their father's body, sometimes arousing him. The father should do the same.



Is this for real or a joke? I just cannot believe it.

[Äike]

This is sick.

If such sick things are encouraged then prepare for more people like him.
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200804/r245357_1001120.jpg

[Beorn]

:eek:

[Groenewolf]

I think I have read this before. But it still is a sick as when I first read it.


Two 40-page booklets entitled "Love, Body and Playing Doctor" by the German Federal Health Education Center (Bundeszentrale für gesundheitliche Aufklärung - BZgA)

Maybe the German police should start an investigation into this Education Center. I would not be suprised if they have lot of illegal material of a certain kind on their computer hard drives.

[sturmwalkure]

Is this for real or a joke? I just cannot believe it.

Neither can I. But honestly I am not surprised, with the EU being the sick joke that it is in the fist place.

[Groenewolf]

Neither can I. But honestly I am not surprised, with the EU being the sick joke that it is in the fist place.

Maybe some EU-mandarines would want it, but I doubt most EP-members would want such a thing. There are however politicians that do want such a thing. In the Netherlands the previous party-leader of GroenLinks wanted to legalize pedofilia because he could fall in love with an pre-puberale boy. And there are some more cases (http://www.katholieknieuwsblad.nl/actueel23/kn2336c.htm) (Dutch source) here of such leftwing politicians.

But lets say that when I mentioned these facts to supporters of these parties they do usualy respond by denial or trying to make it sound like a less severe problem :rolleyes2: . No doubt the USA has their own examples of that kind of scum.

[ikki]

Is this for real or a joke? I just cannot believe it.

http://sioe.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/the-lisbon-treaty-permits-paedophilia-the-end-of-the-eu/

It desent stop there.
The new eu constitution, while banning discrimination on sexual griounds... does not include pedophilia as one form of sexuality which can be disriminated against.

All previous such declaration has excluded pedophilia from the protected forms of sexuality.

[Cato]

The development is, he suggests, a natural outcome of the rejection of the Judeo-Christian moral order.

Bullcrap. For example, Incest was nefas, a serious crime against the the laws of Gods and men, in Rome. People in feudal and imperial China with the same surname were forbidden to marry, lest incest result.

If anything, the Bible condones incest, what with its dirty tales of Lot and his daughters or Abraham marrying Sarah, who was his his half-sister, or the rape of Tamar by Amnom (both the offspring of David, but by different mothers).

[Cato]

This is sick.

If such sick things are encouraged then prepare for more people like him.
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200804/r245357_1001120.jpg

Who the hell's that guy? He looks like a real fuck-up.

[jerney]

What the fuck.

I'm with Loki, this has to be fake.

[Zankapfel]

Errr the story while not completely fake has an extremely misguiding title, yes?
The project, brochure and proposal do exist but there is no talk of legalisation at a national level and as far as I understand it was being "rehearsed" in some select institutions in the mentioned localities but later removed.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,497527,00.html

Use a translator or something. Christsfreakingsake.

PS. @ Pallamedes: that's Austrian model citizen Josef F (http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/archive/2008/04/28/man-kept-his-daughter-in-basement-for-24-years-and-got-her-pregnant-6-times.aspx).
I'd thought everyone would recognize his ugly mug by now.

[Aemma]

http://sioe.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/the-lisbon-treaty-permits-paedophilia-the-end-of-the-eu/

It desent stop there.
The new eu constitution, while banning discrimination on sexual griounds... does not include pedophilia as one form of sexuality which can be disriminated against.

All previous such declaration has excluded pedophilia from the protected forms of sexuality.

But good gods, why aren't people up in arms about such things? Why are there no street riots nor car burnings nor any manner of civil disobedience when it comes to such sickness in society???? I just don't get it. :(

[Aemma]

What the fuck.

I'm with Loki, this has to be fake.

Well I would damn well hope so! If it isn't, no wonder some people opt out from having children. I don't blame them when you now have to worry about this kind of crap. Un-fucking-real!

[The Lawspeaker]

Come on... is it Fools Day yet ? This has to be a fake- not even the EU can be that badshit insane..

[Zankapfel]

Well I've already clarified it's a pamphlet, it's not a legal project and that while there are copies of it still around it's been officially removed from the institutions where it had been distributed before.
Contrary to popular belief, we Germans are not that insane (yet).

[Zankapfel]

For those concerned (and can do Deutsch).

Spiegel 31.07.2009

Das Bundesfamilienministerium hat die Broschüre "Körper, Liebe, Doktorspiele" aus seinem Repertoire entfernt. Bei der Kölner Staatsanwaltschaft war zuvor eine Anzeige eingegangen - die Klägerin findet die Ratschläge zweideutig und zweifelhaft.

Spiegel 31.07.2007

"Körper, Liebe, Doktorspiele": Von der Leyen stoppt umstrittene Aufklärungsbroschüre
Zweideutige Formulierungen und zweifelhafte Tipps zum Umgang mit Genitalien: Das Bundesfamilienministerium hat die Broschüre "Körper, Liebe, Doktorspiele" aus dem Repertoire seiner Aufklärungsarbeit gestrichen. Tausende Exemplare liegen aber noch bei Kinderärzten und in Kindergärten.

Spiegel 06.08.2007

Umstrittene Aufklärungsbroschüre: "Ich habe keine Sex-Tipps gegeben"
Der Ratgeber "Körper, Liebe, Doktorspiele" soll angeblich zum Missbrauch von Kindern aufgerufen haben. Dabei wollte Autorin Ina-Maria Philipps genau das Gegenteil. Im SPIEGEL-ONLINE-Interview spricht sie über missverstandene Formulierungen und konservative Gegner der sexualfreundlichen Pädagogik.

Spiegel 06.08.2007

"Körper, Liebe, Doktorspiele": Experten haben an umstrittener Broschüre nichts auszusetzen
Sexualpädagogen sind entsetzt über die Angriffe auf die Broschüre "Körper, Liebe, Doktorspiele". Von Verleumdung und einem Zerrbild ist die Rede. An dem Elternratgeber zur frühkindlichen Sexualität, den Ursula von der Leyen gestoppt hat, sei "nichts auszusetzen".


1. Hat zufällig jemand ein Exemplar von dieser Broschüre? (PDF-Version reicht aus)
2. Will euch nicht vorenthalten was die werte Frau Kuby auf kath.net darüber zu sagen hat:

http://kath.net/detail.php?id=17418

Zitat:

"Mit den ideologischen Phrasen von Freiheit und Toleranz werden jene diskriminiert, die Werte bewahren wollen. Gabriele Kuby über die Skandal-Aufklärungsbroschüre und die Homosexualisierung der Gesellschaft.
...
Die Geschlechtsdifferenzierung von Mann und Frau und die Heterosexualität als Norm soll aufgehoben werden. Lesbische, schwule, bisexuelle und transsexuelle Lebensweisen sollen der Sexualität zwischen Mann und Frau gleichwertig sein. Diese neue Ideologie wird durch virtuose Beherrschung des politischen Apparats in gesellschaftliche Wirklichkeit verwandelt, ohne daß es darüber je eine öffentliche Debatte gegeben hätte.
...
Die Genderministerin Ursula von der Leyen [...]
Es geht um social engineering, um die Schaffung des neuen, geschlechtsvariablen Menschen. Um das zu erreichen, muß sich der Staat der Kinder bemächtigen und sie so früh wie möglich sexualisieren. Das besorgt die Bundeszentrale für gesundheitliche Aufklärung (BZgA).
Ab zehn Jahren setzen in den Schulen die Werbe- und Schulungsmaßnahmen zur Homosexualität (genauer: lesbisch, schwul, bi und trans) ein, noch nicht überall so kraß wie in Berlin, Hamburg und München, aber mit einheitlicher Tendenz.
...
Ein neues Schimpfwort wird zu einem juristischen Tatbestand, um den Widerstand zu kriminalisieren: Homophobie.
[...]
Es ist Zeit aufzuwachen. Zu lange sind wir auf die ideologischen Phrasen von Freiheit, Toleranz und Antidiskriminierung hereingefallen. Sie dienen in erster Linie der Diskriminierung und Ausgrenzung von Christen und Konservativen und der Abschaffung der Meinungs- und Religionsfreiheit."

There, now you can debate with updated facts.

Also who is the twathead at the end of the article suggesting that people write to the Bundeskanzlerin about this? As if Merkel actually gives a crap what happens to German children, pfftt.

[Heimmacht]

....Here in Holland we would track the writer down and murder him..

[Tabiti]

I've heard of similar sects.
I'm usually not so radical, but such "people" should be shot, without any chance of mercy.

[Treffie]

No, not even the EU could be this stupid, thanks for the info Zankapfel :thumb001:

[Cato]

PS. @ Pallamedes: that's Austrian model citizen

I'd thought everyone would recognize his ugly mug by now.

:eek::eek::eek: What a hideous story. No, I've never heard of this sub-creature, but it doesn't really amaze me, shocking though it is.

[Loki]

:eek::eek::eek: What a hideous story. No, I've never heard of this sub-creature, but it doesn't really amaze me, shocking though it is.

It was all over the news ... I'm surprised it didn't reach you in America.

[Cato]

It was all over the news ... I'm surprised it didn't reach you in America.

I don't watch TV.

[Lahtari]

Old story, but anyway..


"Fathers do not devote enough attention to the clitoris and vagina of their daughters. Their caresses too seldom pertain to these regions, while this is the only way the girls can develop a sense of pride in their sex,"

What kind of Jungian psycho-witchdoctory is this? Girls pride in their sex is determined by their fathers interest towards their genitals? :sick2:
How does this "my daddy thinks I'm the best blowjob in town" attitude help the girl to grow a healthy attitude towards her sexuality? :mmmm:

And does the same work with boys as well? Must momma play with her little one's dingeling in order for him to be "proud of his sex"? If this is not the case, aren't they admitting that women and girls are this kind of "fragile and dependent creatures", in the most un-feministic manner, who need constant praise and emotional support in order to feel proud of themselves? :p


....Here in Holland we would track the writer down and murder him..

Yeah, you already have some traditions in that.. ;)

But unless you mean the Islamic fundies, I beg to differ. Haven't you even got a paedophile party?

[Heimmacht]

Old story, but anyway..



What kind of Jungian psycho-witchdoctory is this? Girls pride in their sex is determined by their fathers interest towards their genitals? :sick2:
How does this "my daddy thinks I'm the best blowjob in town" attitude help the girl to grow a healthy attitude towards her sexuality? :mmmm:

And does the same work with boys as well? Must momma play with her little one's dingeling in order for him to be "proud of his sex"? If this is not the case, aren't they admitting that women and girls are this kind of "fragile and dependent creatures", in the most un-feministic manner, who need constant praise and emotional support in order to feel proud of themselves? :p



Yeah, you already have some traditions in that.. ;)

But unless you mean the Islamic fundies, I beg to differ. Haven't you even got a paedophile party?


They tried to form a party like that, but anyways I was referring to the kind of neighbourhood I grew up in, If he (the writer) lives in a neighbourhood like that, he'd be finished.

And I think you mean Freudian instead of Jungian.

[Karaten]

Note: This is the joke part of my post.
__________________________________________________ _______

"Fathers do not devote enough attention to the clitoris and vagina of their daughters. Their caresses too seldom pertain to these regions, while this is the only way the girls can develop a sense of pride in their sex," reads the booklet regarding 1-3 year olds. The authors rationalize, "The child touches all parts of their father's body, :....[b]sometimes arousing him.:.... The father should do the same."

I have used a color coded scale to signify the level of pedophile the person's mind has regressed into, the rate in which it increases is substantial.

Green: Typical pedophilia.
Orange: Getting ridiculous. Not only does he advocate the pedophile acts, he then claims all other forms of touch wrong.
Red:This is where he goes completely insane, and uses logic to justify the act as though the father's owe it to the child.
(By the way, unless this article was written by a 1 year old who has official and non-official endorsement and representation of all little girls, this is still rape, no matter how good it feels when your baby steps on your privates with it's little foot, it is not an invitation.)

Bold indicates a bullshit statement.
Underlining is simply for emphasis.
:.... Everything wrong in this article in one statement, and clearly the cause of the need to write it. :....
_______________________________________________

Now, in all seriousness, this seems to be a pedophile, or, much less likely, a woman with daddy issues, wanting to justify their perverted desires as somehow healthy and progressive.

[anonymaus]

Seems like an attempt to augment, or interfere with, psychosexual development; since when do we look at the normal development of human beings as a problem to be solved?

Proper parenting of capable children leads to healthy adults: psychosexual variance is no more a problem than what kind of music your offspring enjoy.

[Aemma]

Old story, but anyway..



What kind of Jungian psycho-witchdoctory is this? Girls pride in their sex is determined by their fathers interest towards their genitals? :sick2:
How does this "my daddy thinks I'm the best blowjob in town" attitude help the girl to grow a healthy attitude towards her sexuality? :mmmm:

And does the same work with boys as well? Must momma play with her little one's dingeling in order for him to be "proud of his sex"? If this is not the case, aren't they admitting that women and girls are this kind of "fragile and dependent creatures", in the most un-feministic manner, who need constant praise and emotional support in order to feel proud of themselves? :p



Yeah, you already have some traditions in that.. ;)

But unless you mean the Islamic fundies, I beg to differ. Haven't you even got a paedophile party?

I think you might mean Freudian. Jung's theories aren't based on the notions of overt or sublimated sexual urges as are Freud's. :thumb001:

[Tony]

I don't watch TV.
Read newspapers or journal of sort at least?
by the way the most ironic of all it was that at one point he even dared to blame the nazi...:rolleyes:

http://i27.tinypic.com/20l1h12.jpg

back in topic I remember having heard the exact same story a few years ago , not a similar eh , exactly the same , I'm very suspect about it , would like to see and read the pamphlet with my eyes , media and journalists are easy in twisting words in order to get the headlines.

[Rainraven]

The contents of “body, love and playing body” received very good feedback: the handbook was spontaneously evaluated by two thirds of the mothers and fathers as informative, important and comprehensive. They thought it was easy to understand, appealing, professional and objective. The parents felt the difficult subject was dealt with in an open, uncomplicated and relaxed manner. The respondents also praised the clear language: they said they greatly enjoyed reading the brochure. None of the respondents expressed any spontaneous criticism of the brochure’s contents.

Results of a parental survey carried out on the booklet (http://english.forschung.sexualaufklaerung.de/2656.0.html)

This booklet was released in 2001 and not pulled until 2007. If it really contained what people have claimed it to, it seems unlikely it would have been kept in circulation for that long.

[Cato]

Read newspapers or journal of sort at least?
by the way the most ironic of all it was that at one point he even dared to blame the nazi...:rolleyes:

I don't think that the Nazis were into inbreeding to create the master race. Der Fuhrer would've had the old pervert shot and the inbred children destroyed for polluting the Germanic gene pool.

[Brännvin]

Europe Union is the insane institution but I still would not expect that yet. :D

[Tony]

I don't think that the Nazis were into inbreeding to create the master race. Der Fuhrer would've had the old pervert shot and the inbred children destroyed for polluting the Germanic gene pool.
Of course they weren't if not in the mind of this sick being who adorned the secret bunker of strange stars...:rolleyes:

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2008/04/fritzihousegrab3_450x320.jpg

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00677/fritzl-dungeon-404_677685c.jpg

maybe he thought of himself as the reincarnation of Lot...:rolleyes2:

[Phlegethon]

This post comes about two years too late. The books have been caled back and destroyed long ago.

And that nice-looking guy above is Josef Fritzl, an Austrian with a prison cell in his basement where he held his daugher captive for 24 years and had several children with her.

[Æmeric]

"Fathers do not devote enough attention to the clitoris and vagina of their daughters. Their caresses too seldom pertain to these regions, while this is the only way the girls can develop a sense of pride in their sex," reads the booklet regarding 1-3 year olds. The authors rationalize, "The child touches all parts of their father's body, sometimes arousing him. The father should do the same.
Apparently this is normal in some cultures. Like Albania. There was a case in Texas many years ago of Albanian immigrants who lost custody of their children because the father 'caressed' his 4-year-old daughter in public. They claimed it was a cultural thing. There was also a member at Skadi who said he saw an Albanian father (the issue had come up in a thread) 'pleasuring' his young son on public transport in Germany.:eek:

[Cato]

Of course they weren't if not in the mind of this sick being who adorned the secret bunker of strange stars...:rolleyes:

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2008/04/fritzihousegrab3_450x320.jpg

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00677/fritzl-dungeon-404_677685c.jpg

maybe he thought of himself as the reincarnation of Lot...:rolleyes2:

Lot had two daughters that he got randy with whereas this sicko had to make due with just one. :rolleyes:

[Hrolf Kraki]

John-Henry Westen
LifeSiteNews.com

BERLIN, July 30, 2007(LifeSiteNews.com) - Booklets from a subsidiary of the German government's Ministry for Family Affairs encourage parents to sexually massage their children as young as 1 to 3 years of age. Two 40-page booklets entitled "Love, Body and Playing Doctor" by the German Federal Health Education Center (Bundeszentrale für gesundheitliche Aufklärung - BZgA) are aimed at parents - the first addressing children from 1-3 and the other children from 4-6 years of age.

"Fathers do not devote enough attention to the clitoris and vagina of their daughters. Their caresses too seldom pertain to these regions, while this is the only way the girls can develop a sense of pride in their sex," reads the booklet regarding 1-3 year olds. The authors rationalize, "The child touches all parts of their father's body, sometimes arousing him. The father should do the same.

Canadian author and public speaker Michael O'Brien who has written and spoken extensively about the crisis of culture in the West spoke to LifeSiteNews.com about the shocking and extremely disturbing phenomenon. It is, he said, "State-encouraged incest, which in most civilized societies is a crime." The development is, he suggests, a natural outcome of the rejection of the Judeo-Christian moral order.

Full Article (http://www.tpuc.org/node/151)



Sounds like a Muslim wrote it.

However, the idea that incest is a product of the rejection of Judeo-Christian morals is an f*ing joke! :rolleyes:

[Cato]

Sounds like a Muslim wrote it.

However, the idea that incest is a product of the rejection of Judeo-Christian morals is an f*ing joke! :rolleyes:

I maintain that incest is a product of said worldview (not in toto, but that incest is more likely in countries where the Judeo-Christian psychosis runs deep), with incestuous tales contained within the Bible. Then there's the suggestive and titillating idea that the children of Adam and Even, Cain and Abel, for example, took their own siblings as spouses- but that it wasn't incest because the human gene pool was entirely pure and because the Good Lawd approved of it! :thumb001:

[Lutiferre]

I maintain that incest is a product of said worldview (not in toto, but that incest is more likely in countries where the Judeo-Christian psychosis runs deep)
Which is demonstrably false (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10101).

Sounds like a Muslim wrote it.

However, the idea that incest is a product of the rejection of Judeo-Christian morals is an f*ing joke! :rolleyes:
It's not a "product of it" necessarily. But the moralism which says incest is necessarily bad is certainly a product of a Christian ethic. And, as I've said, it's interesting to note how bound to a Christian ethic and moralism most people still are, and how unable to accept any other ethical order, such as that seen in the mentioned societies and in any other alternate view of things. It's to my mind completely inconsistent.


"When one gives up Christian belief one thereby deprives oneself of the right to Christian morality. For the latter is absolutely not self-evident...Christianity is a system, a consistently thought out and complete view of things. If one breaks out of it a fundamental idea, the belief in God, one thereby breaks the whole thing to pieces: one has nothing of any consequence left in one's hands." (Friedrich Nietzsche, 'Twilight of the Idols,' 'Expeditions of an Untimely Man,' 5)

[Manifest Destiny]

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7350/pedobear1.png

[sturmwalkure]

http://www.sickview.com/content/1251058224.JPG

I think we all know this is to appease the Muslims. :eek: Can't say I am surprised.

[The Lawspeaker]

http://www.sickview.com/content/1251058224.JPG

I think we all know this is to appease the Muslims. :eek: Can't say I am surprised.

In Semitic countries a kiss on the lips does not have a sexual meaning though. :) But indeed..

[Lutiferre]

In Semitic countries a kiss on the lips does not have a sexual meaning though. :) But indeed..

Indeed not. A public display of homosexuality would result in a good chastisement
http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/caningdm0108_468x344.jpg

[Karaten]

Indeed not. A public display of homosexuality would result in a good chastisement
http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/caningdm0108_468x344.jpg

...Of equal homosexuality?

[Lutiferre]

...Of equal homosexuality?

Only if he had an S/M fetish. Otherwise, one could hardly enjoy 50,000 whippings (to the arse) which rendered you unable to sit down for the next three months.

[Smaland]

Bullcrap. For example, Incest was nefas, a serious crime against the the laws of Gods and men, in Rome. People in feudal and imperial China with the same surname were forbidden to marry, lest incest result.

If anything, the Bible condones incest ...

Not so:

Leviticus 18:6-18 (King James Version)

"6) None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.

7) The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

8) The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

9) The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

10) The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.

11) The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

12) Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.

13) Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.

14) Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.

15) Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

16) Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.

17) Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.

18) Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time."

[Anthropos]

Bullcrap. For example, Incest was nefas, a serious crime against the the laws of Gods and men, in Rome. People in feudal and imperial China with the same surname were forbidden to marry, lest incest result.

If anything, the Bible condones incest, what with its dirty tales of Lot and his daughters or Abraham marrying Sarah, who was his his half-sister, or the rape of Tamar by Amnom (both the offspring of David, but by different mothers).

At least you had the tact of warning us that you were going to dump a load of crap on us. :icon_lol: The account of Lot and his daughters is a historical account. Relating an episode of history does not have anything to do with "condoning", and Scripture does very clearly forbid incest (see Leviticus).

Furthermore, the Rome that you referred to has ceased to exist. Wake up time, try reality for a change!

[Lutiferre]

At least you had the tact of warning us that you were going to dump a load of crap on us. :icon_lol: The account of Lot and his daughters is a historical account. Relating an episode of history does not have anything to do with "condoning", and Scripture does very clearly forbid incest (see Leviticus).

Furthermore, the Rome that you referred to has ceased to exist. Wake up time, try reality for a change!
Indeed, the bible tells of a lot of things which it doesn't condone, and often condemns the behaviour of the supposed "Gods people" themselves.

[SwordoftheVistula]

If anything, the Bible condones incest, what with its dirty tales of Lot and his daughters or Abraham marrying Sarah, who was his his half-sister, or the rape of Tamar by Amnom (both the offspring of David, but by different mothers).

Many mythologies have 'incest' amongst the 'founding members' of the society due to the limited pool available. Usually they are called 'gods' but in the bible they are given entirely mortal personalities in order to fit the 'monotheism' theme.

[Klärchen]

Hello everybody! The subject "paedophilia" as well as child pornography has been much discussed on the occasion of the planned internet censorship in Germany. In the course of sexual liberalization, there had indeed been attempts to legalize sex relations between children and adults, especially by members of the German Green Party:

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=933

http://www.blip.tv/file/2226128

Hardly anyone knows the true background of Alfred Kinsey's famous studies on which almost all of our sexual research is based. Kinsey had already propagated paedophilia and had done cruel "research" with children.

This is a shocking documentary that was broadcasted on the British Channel 4 in 1998:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8606305708018993332# (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8606305708018993332#)

[Cail]

Hello everybody! The subject "paedophilia" as well as child pornography has been much discussed on the occasion of the planned internet censorship in Germany. In the course of sexual liberalization, there had indeed been attempts to legalize sex relations between children and adults, especially by members of the German Green Party:

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=933

http://www.blip.tv/file/2226128


...when i read something like that i seriously loose my humanity. If i had some of those people at hand this moment, i'd kill them with my bare hands. Like, crush their bones and rip their throat, and then laugh and watch them slowly die.

[Klärchen]

Yes, Cail, you are right! This is some more information about MEP Cohn-Bendit:

http://m.democracyforum.co.uk/european-union/66493-german-mep-open-about-his-paedophilia.html (http://m.democracyforum.co.uk/european-union/66493-german-mep-open-about-his-paedophilia.html)

And although this is going a little bit off-topic, I'd like to express that things like that are going on everywhere in the world, and also among the upper crust. You remember the Marc Dutroux case in Belgium? And – sorry, I am taking your precious time – but if you have the time, just watch this film:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=866739408240639313# (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=866739408240639313#)

Good night, everybody! :zzz

[Cato]

NAMBLA's German cousins looking to push legalized kiddie sex = loots of whoop-ass.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Maybe some EU-mandarines would want it, but I doubt most EP-members would want such a thing. There are however politicians that do want such a thing. In the Netherlands the previous party-leader of GroenLinks wanted to legalize pedofilia because he could fall in love with an pre-puberale boy. And there are some
more cases (http://www.katholieknieuwsblad.nl/actueel23/kn2336c.htm) (Dutch source) here of such leftwing politicians.

But lets say that when I mentioned these facts to supporters of these parties they do usualy respond by denial or trying to make it sound like a less severe problem :rolleyes2: . No doubt the USA has their own examples of that kind of scum.

Can't find it,must have been taken off.
Pedophilia is rife in Africa.
I think it is disgusting.

[Klärchen]

Zimbabwe:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8349788.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8349788.stm)

Netherlands:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Neighbourly_Love,_Freedom,_and_Diversity

[Jarl]

I think there is a significant difference though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8349788.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8349788.stm)

This is a result of low culture in a country where general ethic standards have been compromised by years of civil unrest. This is moral erosion in a lawless country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Neighbourly_Love,_Freedom,_and_Diversity

This is a moral erosion in an affluent, lawflul and developed country. Its not a backward society with low culture. Its just that there exists a highly decadent marigin which promotes perversion.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

I think there is a significant difference though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8349788.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8349788.stm)

This is a result of low culture in a country where general ethic standards have been compromised by years of civil unrest. This is moral erosion in a lawless country.

It is operating in a tribal culture and abuse is common for hundreds of years in Africa,be it in Sudan or South Africa
Look up the Ik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ik and see what forced culture change can do.
I had a paper on it,must look it up


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Neighbourly_Love,_Freedom,_and_Diversity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Neighbourly_Love,_Freedom,_and_Diversity )

This is a moral erosion in an affluent, lawflul and developed country. Its not a backward society with low culture. Its just that there exists a highly decadent marigin which promotes perversion.

There is hardly any difference between low life and decadent one.
The Dutch ultra liberal lifestyle is on the verge of an explosion.

[Groenewolf]

Netherlands:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Neighbourly_Love,_Freedom,_and_Diversity

Actually there is also al lot of that going on considering the attempts to legalize pedophilia in connexion with the Dutch green party Groenlinks (http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/?pagina=981).

[Klärchen]

Actually there is also al lot of that going on considering the attempts to legalize pedophilia in connexion with the Dutch green party Groenlinks (http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/?pagina=981).
Hello Groenewolf, yes, this seems to be a speciality of the Greens, the same efforts had been made in the 80ies by some members of the German Green Party, Volker Beck, for example. But Beck has meanwhile abandoned these claims:

Frage zum Thema Familie 17.08.2007

Sehr geehrter Herr Beck,

im Onlinelexikon Wiki lese ich, dass sie folgende Forderung aufgestellt haben:

"Eine Entkriminalisierung der Pädosexualität ist angesichts des jetzigen Zustandes ihrer globalen Kriminalisierung dringend erforderlich, nicht zuletzt weil sie im Widerspruch zu rechtsstaatlichen Grundsätzen aufrechterhalten wird."

• Der Pädosexuelle Komplex. Handbuch für Betroffene und ihre Gegner, Berlin/Frankfurt 1988, S. 266 und Volker Beck, Das Strafrecht ändern? Plädoyer für eine realistische Neuorientierung der Sexualpolitik. (Foerster Verlag - ISBN 3922257666 Auf einen Link zum Verlag Foerster Media möchte ich aus Jugendschutzgründen wegen der dort zu findenden Fotos verzichten). Das Buch ist mit Bildern junger Knaben in kurzen Hosen bestickt.

Um zu überprüfen, ob dieses Zitat aus dem Zusammenhang gerissen wurde, kaufte ich das Buch. Darin lese ich:

Als Etappenziel kann hier nur eine Versachlichung der Diskussion um das Problem der Pädosexualität vorgeschlagen werden. Als strafrechtliche Perspektive wäre hier z.B. eine Novellierung ins Auge zu fassen, die einerseits das jetzige "Schutzalter" von 14 Jahren zur Disposition stellt ... (Zitatende)

Dazu wollen Sie, so schreiben sie, die Schwulenbewegung benutzen:

Allein eine Mobilisierung der Schwulenbewegung für die rechtlich gesehen im Gegensatz zur Pädosexualität völlig unproblematische Gleichstellung von Homo- und Heterosexualität durch die Streichung des §175 StGB und für die Rechter der Homosexuellen wird das Zementieren eines sexualrepressiven Klimas verhindern können - eine Voraussetzung, um eines Tages den Kampf für die zumindest teilweise Entkriminalisierung der Pädosexualität aufnehmen zu können. (Zitatende).

Können Sie mir bitte mitteilen, wie Sie heute zu diesen Forderungen stehen?

Antwort von Volker Beck 17.08.2007

Sehr geehrter Herr R.,

meine Position zum Themenkomplex "sexuellen Missbrauch" / Pädophilie ist wie folgt:

Seit vielen Jahren setze ich mich politisch für die Bekämpfung des sexuellen Missbrauches von Kindern und Schutzbefohlenen ein. Seit meiner Mitgliedschaft im Deutschen Bundestag bin ich daher wiederholt für die Verbesserung der Rechtssituation der Opfer sexuellen Missbrauchs und für eine Schließung von Strafbarkeitslücken initiativ geworden. Bereits in meiner ersten Wahlperiode im Bundestag ab 1994 habe ich einen Vorschlag für einen eigenständigen Verbrechenstatbestand für die schweren Formen des sexuellen Missbrauchs von Kindern (§ 176 a StGB) ausgearbeitet, der von der damaligen Koalition entgegen ursprünglich anders lautender Vorstellungen auch im Sechsten Strafrechtsänderungsgesetz aufgegriffen wurde.

In meiner weiteren Arbeit im Bundestag habe ich mich zudem für eine Verjährungshemmung bei zivilrechtlichen Ansprüchen von Missbrauchsopfern eingesetzt und mit dafür gesorgt, dass Kinderpornographie und schwerer sexueller Missbrauch von Kindern in den Straftatenkatalog für die Telefonüberwachung aufgenommen wurde.

Der von Ihnen angesprochene Textauszug stammt aus einem Artikel in einem Buch, das 1988 von einem Herausgeber unter Pseudonym publiziert wurde. Bereits der damalige Abdruck war nicht autorisiert und im Sinn durch eine freie Redigierung vom Herausgeber verfälscht. Dass Sie heute noch ein Exemplar des vor fast 20 Jahr erschienen Werkes im Buchhandel erstanden haben wollen, erstaunt mich allerdings.

Die Sicht auf die Pädophilie war in den 70er und 80er Jahren von einem systematischen Irrtum in weiten Teilen Sexualwissenschaft und auch Teilen der Kriminologie verstellt: Selbst Kriminologen des Bundeskriminalamtes (BKA) schlugen damals vor, zwischen gewaltlosen, angeblich "harmlosen" Sexualkontakten und gewaltförmigen, schädlichen Sexualkontakten zwischen Erwachsenen und Kindern zu unterscheiden. Diese Diskussionen wurden in dem genannten Artikel referiert.

Ich habe mich seit Ende der 80er Jahre intensiv mit den Berichten von Vereinen wie Wildwasser oder Zartbitter über die Arbeit mit Opfern sexualisierter Gewalt bzw. sexuellen Missbrauchs auseinandergesetzt. Seitdem habe ich mit Liberalisierungsüberlegungen zum Sexualstrafrecht, die über die 1994 in Deutschland erfolgte Gleichstellung von Hetero- und Homosexualität (Streichung des § 175 StGB) hinausgehen, völlig gebrochen und bin Forderungen in diese Richtung immer entgegengetreten. Mein daraus resultierendes politisches Handeln gegen Kindesmissbrauch und Kinderpornographie habe ich eingangs geschildert.

http://www.abgeordnetenwatch.de/volker_beck-650-5916--f72020.html

[Klärchen]

But formerly Volker Beck had declared things like these:


Angelo Leopardi (ed.), Der pädosexuelle Komplex, Berlin, Frankfurt (Main):
Der nachfolgende Beitrag stammt von Volker Beck, der für "Schwulenreferat" der Grünen im Bundestag zuständig ist.
[...]
[S.260 Der Sonderausschuss des Deutschen Bundestags hatte 1973 bei der Vorbereitung des 4. Strafrechtserneuerungsgesetzes versucht, seiner Arbeit eine rationale Erläuterungung der Problematik zugrunde zu legen Foerster, S.28-34 (1988). Angesichts der Bedenken der geladenen Experten hinsichtlich der Behauptung, gewaltlose pädosexuelle Erlebnisse störten die sexuelle Entwicklung eines Kindes, verpflichtete sich der Sonderausschuss mit seiner Definition des zu schützenden Rechtsgutes als der "ungestörten sexuellen Entwicklung des Kindes" immerhin einer sachlichen Argumentation. Allerdings hat der Sonderausschuss sich selbst bei seinen Vorschlägen nicht daran gehalten und sich wieder besseres Sachverstandigenwissen für generelle Strafbarkeit der Sexualität mit Kindern entschieden.
Obwohl dieser Ansatz einer rationalen Auseinandersetzung mit dem Problem der P. 176 nicht gleich zum Erfolg führte, scheint er mir der einzige Ausgangspunkt für eine tatsächliche Verbesserung der rechtlichen Situation der Pädophilen.

[S. 261-262 Jäger hat recht, wenn er meint, dass es am aussichtsreichsten ist, die politische Diskussion zu führen, indem man die Reform an dem misst, was die Reformer sich vorgenommen hatten. Hierzu formulierte er sieben programmatische Thesen, von denen ich vor allem die ersten sechs - hier im Wesentlichen wiedergegeben - massgeblich für eine reformistische Sexualstrafrechtspolitik halte:

1. Das Strafrecht dient allein dem Rechtsgüterschutz. Gesetzgeber ist daher nur legitimiert, sozial gefährliche Verhaltensweisen unter Strafe zu stellen.
2. Die Schädlichkeit oder Gefährlichkeit des zu beurteilenden Verhaltens bedarf des empirischen Nachweises.
3. Selbst wenn der Nachweis der Gefährlichkeit gelingt, darf eine Strafvorschrift nur geschaffen werden, wenn Unrechtsgehalt und Schädlichkeit so gravierend sind, dass die Strafbarkeit nicht unverhälnismässig, also als Überreaktion erscheint.
4. Nur tatbestandstypische Gefahren sind zu berücksichtigen. Strafvorschriften, die gefährliche und ungefährliche Verhaltenweisen gleichermassen umfassen, sind nicht zu rechtfertigen.
5. Zu den gesicherten Auffassungen heutiger Kriminalpolitik gehört auch, dass das Strafrecht nur die ultima ratio im Instrumentarium des Gesetzgebers ist, die Strafbarkeit also nur das äusserste Mittel der Sozialpolitik sein darf. Bevor sich der Gesetzgeber zur Anwendung dieses letzten und äussersten Mittels entschliesst, hat er zu prüfen, ob nicht andere, ausserstrafrechtliche Mittel zum Schutz der betroffenen Rechtsgüter ausreichen.
(Herbert Jäger, Möglichkeiten einer weiteren Reform des Sexualstrafrechts, in: Dannecker/Sigusch: Sexualtheorie und Sexualpolitik. Stuttgart 1984, S.68f.)
[...]

[S. 263 Man wird nicht umhin können, sich bei dieser Diskussion mit den Argumenten der Frauenbewegung auseinanderzusetzen und die Perspektive der Feministinnen, die oft auch durch frühsexuelle Kontakte mit Vätern und Onkeln traumatisch geführt worden ist, ernstzunehmen.
Als Etappenziel kann hier nur eine Versachlichung der Diskussion um das Problem der Pädosexualität vorgeschlagen werden. Als strafrechtliche Perspektive wäre hier z.B. eine Novellierung ins Auge zu fassen, die einerseits das jetzige "Schutzalter" von 14 Jahren zur Disposition stellt (in den Niederlanden gab es solche Initiativen mit erheblichem Erfolg!) oder auch eine Strafabsehensklausel. Eine Diskussion um eine solche Reform des P. 176 würde sicherlich einem entkrampfteren und weniger angstbesetzten Klima den Weg bahnen. Eine Strafabsehensklausel, würde sie durchgesetzt, würde eine tatsächliche Auseinandersetzung vor Gericht, und, wenn die Bewegung stark genug ist, in der Öffentlichkeit um die Frage einer eventuellen Schädigung eines Kindes durch sexuelle Kontakte mit einem Erwachsenen ermöglichen. Wer jetzt einwendet, dass man die Gerichte kenne und dort der Fortschritt nicht gerade Urständ feiert, hat sicher recht, aber die Alternative sieht nicht besser aus: Ein Vertrauen darauf, durch noch so starken öffentlichen Druck eine Mehrheit für die Streichung des Sexualstrafrechts im Parlament zu erhalten, scheint reichlich naiv.

Immerhin - und das macht langfristig Hoffnung auf ein "Reförmchen" auch gerade beim P. 176 StGB - hat der Sonderausschuss des Bundestages damals gerade für diesen Paragraphen eine erneute parlamentarische Diskussion für den Fall in Aussicht gestellt, dass sich die jetzige Definition des zu schützenden Rechtsgutes sexualwissenschaftlich nicht mehr halten lasse. Wer für die Lebens- und Rechtssituation der pädophilen Menschen etwas erreichen will, muss diese Diskussion mit Aufklärung und Entmythologisierung vorbereiten, eine blosse Ideologisierung der Gegenposition zum Sexualstrafrecht kann hierin ihres realpolitischen Misserfolgs sicher sein.
[...]
[S.266 Eine Entkriminalisierung der Pädosexualität ist angesichts des jetzigen Zustandes ihrer globalen Kriminalisierung dringend erforderlich, nicht zuletzt weil sie im Widerspruch zu rechtsstaatlichen Grundsätzen aufrechterhalten wird.
[S. 268 Auch wenn das Strafrecht als ultimo ratio hier nicht das geeignet Mittel ist, muss zumindest eine Antwort auf den von den Feministinnen artikulierten Schutzbedarf des Kindes, insbesondere des Mädchens, gefunden werden. Bevor dies nicht der Fall ist, wird ein unaufrichtiges Kinderbild, das die uneingeschränkte Fähigkeit zu einvernehmlicher Sexualität (auch für Kleinkind?) einschliessend, einem mythischen Kinderbild gegenüberstehen, das von einer generellen Unfähigkeit zu sexueller Selbstbestimmung und einer generellen Traumatisierung durch sexuelle Erlebnisse beim vorpubertären Menschen ausgeht. Auf beiden Seiten Irrationalität auf beiden Seiten Schielen auf Populismus statt sachgerechter Auseinandersetzung.

Source (http://www.politikforen.net/showthread.php?t=47402)

[Klärchen]

This is an excerpt from a paper by Dr Anita Heiliger, translated into English. It fact, it was a report given on the occasion of a conference about sexual abuse in social institutions for children and adolescents:

Pädosexualität. Definition, Selbstdarstellung, Strategien der Opfergewinnung und Möglichkeiten des Gegenhandelns (http://www.ljrberlin.de/fileadmin/user_upload/dokumentation_fachtagung_sexuelle_gewalt_januar_20 07.pdf)


... This is the intention of the current debate about sexual assault among children and adolescents and about the great uncertainty among professionals regarding an appropriate response in order to prevent both victim and perpetrator careers. It claims, in addition to the protection of children and minors from adult offenders, the prevention of the emergence of ever new generations of "pedophiles" (see St. 2005, Friend / Riedel Breidenstein 2005).

The group of the "fixated pedophiles" is usually connected to networks of like-minded (see website www.paedo.de) in which they confirm each other in their "preference" for children, are mutually assured of their "normality" in passing on images of children as well as children themselves, and cultivate themselves as a group discriminated by society (see Gallwitz / Paul 1997, Thönnissen 1990). In the publications of the pedophile movement, they will seek to promote legal changes that allow sexual acts between adults and children. In the Netherlands, pedophiles have even founded a party last year, which is explicitly pursuing this goal.

In the past and even today, critical analyses have largely been hampered that explore "pedophilia" and the perception of the dangers of "pedosexuality" for children through their ideological support, for example by scientists and politics, as well as through the activities of "pedophiles" in institutions such as the German Child Protection Association (Deutscher Kinderschutzbund, DKSB). The poster series of the Lintas campaign for the DKSB - e.g. with the slogans "Dad was her first husband" and "Whenever the opportunity arises, Uncle Paul can't help doing it" - demonstrates this attitude, and thus sparked widespread indignation (see Ohl 1997).

But much earlier, in the 70s well into the 80s, and as a consequence of the alleged sexual liberation being part of the 68-movement, sexuality with children was supported, and soon its legal permission was demanded. In 1980, Alice Schwarzer published one of the first public critiques about "pedophilia" and was therefore violently affronted by the "pedophile" scene and their sympathizers. At the same time, the Green Party declared that one of its objectives was to abolish the legal prohibition of sexual contacts of adults with children. It was not before a Green MEP was incriminated and sentenced for raping a two-year-old girl, that in 1985 they removed this target from their program (see the "Children's Friends" 1996).

This happened more than 20 years ago, but partially the Greens are still strikingly reticent on issues of sexual abuse and "pedophilia". At the beginning of the millennium, my workgroup "Täterarbeit versus Täterschutz" (perpetrators' work versus perpetrators' protection) in the Women's Project Kofra asked for a meeting with the Greens and the Rosa Liste (Pink List) in order to inform them that a "pedo self-help group" was meeting regularly in the gay milieu, and to demand consequences. The event took place, but nothing happened, except that the group some time later met in other rooms. So it took more years until a journalist from the STERN uncovered the scandal and there was a raid with several arrests and seizures. Similarly silently behaves the gay movement towards "pedophilia", which wrongly assumes that men abusing boys are generally gay, and they refuse to distance themselves clearly from such men. That these "pedophiles" are no gays has been pointed out several times: they are not looking for a male partner, but for the child.

As for other representatives and sympathizers of "pedophilia": e.g. the ZEGG (Zentrum für experimentelle Gesellschaftsgestaltung) in Leipzig, the "Society for Experimental Formation of Society", where "free love" is propagated and whose founder Dieter Duhm later on found shelter in Otto Mühl's infamous AA commune in Austria. For 15 years, Otto Mühl raped and tortured here girls and women, since 1991 he is in jail. A welcome guest at ZEGG was the sexologist Ernest Bornemann, who coined the saying, "Who has never experienced how a 10-year-old capricious doll bosses around an experienced man of 40, knows little about sex" (see the "Children's Friends" 1996, p. 19).

In the 80s, also section "child sexuality and pedophilia" of the AHS (Arbeitsgemeinschaft Humane Sexualität) - Association of Human Sexuality – gave their view as for the decriminalization of pedophilia. This paper – updated in 1998 - can still be downloaded from the website of the AHS. It defends the "pedophile persons", i.e. the sexual contact between adults and children: "Pedophilia is a sexual orientation that has not been chosen by the people concerned". It says there that among them - as in any relationship – there are those who pursue violence and abuse of power, however, this is no reason for a flat criminalization of this orientation; the discrimination of "pedophiles" is based "on the widespread lacking and erroneous information of most people" (workgroup parents and relatives of "pedophile" persons). Well-known scientists like Kentler, Bleibtreu-Ehrenberg and Michael Baurmann belonged to the AHS at that time. On its former website, the "Pedo Workgroup" of the AHS claimed not to generally prohibit consensual sex between adults and children, because this would be "of no help for the thousands of children who live in a secret relationship with a pedophile" (Peter Näf at Urbaniok and Benz 2005).

The extent of this group of sexual abusers is very difficult to assess. The Bremen sociology professor Rüdiger Lautmann, who in 1994 published the book "The lust for the child. Portrait of the pedophile," indicates that 5% of the pedosexuals are "true pedophiles". However, while reading the book it quickly becomes clear that in most aspects there is no difference at all between those interviewed by Lautmann and other pedocriminals – e.g. in the detailed description of their strategies to gain access to victims (see Heiliger 2000).

As is well-known, the number of pedosexual offenders as a whole is also difficult to assess. Primarily we find here the sexual abuse within the family, which - as expected - constitutes the largest part. But in light of the ever-expanding consumption and production of "child pornography" and of the information that is obtained when cases have been detected, we can assume that sexual abuse of children is a more widespread crime than previously known - too many individuals and authorities continue to ensure trivialization and acceptance, cover-up and support.

2. Self-portrayal of the "Pedophiles"

The "fixated pedophile" sees himself as a "true pedophile" (cf. Lautmann 1994) compared to the "surrogate object" offenders. He sees himself as someone who really loves children - in contrast to the other group - and who is concentrated on the needs of the children. He presents his pedosexual contact as free of violence; he asserts that he himself responds to sexual desires of the child and that he thus contributes to the child's sexual self-determination and opposes the sexual oppression of children. He sets himself apart from all forms of violence against children and their commercial sexual exploitation. He argues that he advocates the child's right to a sexual relationship with an adult. The prohibition of sexual contacts between adults and children will be interpreted as sexual hostility and "desexualization of childhood." Therefore, he denies that the sexual contact with the child, defined by him as non-violent, inflicts mental or physical harm upon the child. Therefore, such a "pedophile" man does not have any sense of wrongdoing in relation to his actions, for he considers them as natural and even beneficial for the child. The "Pedo Workgroup" within the AHS writes, "As long as they are consensual and approved according to the child's particular stage of development (i.e. consensual), as long as in any phase of the (sexual) encounter the child's needs, feelings, and desires remain the measure (i.e. suitable for children), as long as there is no misuse of authority or dependence, and as long as health risks are avoided, [such actions] are always beneficial for both sides – in spite of all (and even because of certain) differences" (www.ahs.de).

Another stereotypical assertion of the "pedophile" is that the sexual contact represents only a small part of his relationship with the child, that it is a serious love relation and that he performs a responsible, educational task towards the child: "I'd love to have a young friend who gives a sense to my life and who is also a human duty for me," says Stöckel in an interview (1998, p. 70). The "pedophile" insists that the - even sexual – relationship is voluntary and intentional on the part of the child. The sexual acts would generally remain at the level of affection, looking and masturbating, which is described by Baurmann as "very superficial and innocuous contacts" (ibid., p. 74). Scheller adds: "Factual sexual intercourse is usually completely out of the sexual desire of the pedophile" (ibid.). Günther Amendt points out, "While on the one hand examples are given constantly in order to justify the right to sexual relations between adults and children, on the other hand everything is being done in those pedophile self-portrayals to deny any sexual relation..." (Amendt 1980, p. 25).

The relationship with the child will be enthusiastically idealized; Lautmann says i.e., "Surveying, attending, and taking care of a person's development, is one of the original motives of human relationships, even in love. In pedophilia, this trait is quite exceptional and almost self-contained" (Lautmann 1994, p. acquires 25) . He even enhances his enthusiasm with the assertion, "The pedophile sexual form has an unusually sophisticated approach to consensus... in terms of language, time, and matter, the lovers structure their procedure" (ibid. p. 98). It amounts to a "very particular relationship, based on the exchange of dissimilar feelings" (ibid. p. 91).

Lautmann refuses the concept that "pedophilia" is deficient or abnormal: "We are concerned... with a differently shaped sexuality" (ibid. p. 118); it is an erotic-sexual preference, which should not be prosecuted. He hereby denies the fact that the "pedophiles", as mentioned earlier, underwent experiences of deficiency in their own childhood and practically reactivate them permanently in contact with the child. However, in their own imagination they give them an inverse meaning (care, love...) to give the child what they themselves were denied.

Martin Dannecker (1987) evaluates these self-portrayals as follows: "Characteristic of the limitless disavowal of one's sexual desires is the predominant self-stylization in those apologetic texts as being a mere executor of the children's sexual desires" (ibid. p. 79). Marlene and Claudia Stein-Hilbers Bundschuh subsume in their paper "Promotion and decriminalization of pedosexuality" (1998): "The arguments of the pedosexual movement aim at protecting the (by his own definition) non-violent adult, who is erotically and sexually fixated on the child, against prosecution." The assertion of the harmlessness of pedosexual contacts - in fact, traumata cannot always be detected – should be countered by mentioning that children may be able to process even very severe traumatic experiences without symptom formation. Urbaniok and Benz (2005) agree that in sexual relations with minors there is a always a risk of harm so that such contacts can never be regarded as harmless.

[Jarl]

"Germany to Legalise Paedophilia"...???


hmm... :rolleyes:



This is sick.

If such sick things are encouraged then prepare for more people like him.
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200804/r245357_1001120.jpg


Zyklop and Svanhild? Mochten Sie fernsehen? :P



:P:P:P

[Klärchen]

News from GB, for a change:

Paedophile ran teaching website (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/8462650.stm)

[Sol Invictus]

January 14, 2010
http://www.hutchnews.com/Todaystop/inman2010-01-13T20-16-41

The arrest of Inman’s police chief at his home Tuesday night on 19 charges – including allegations he molested four children – shocked the small community of about 1,200 people.

Michael L. Akins Jr., 38, is accused of sexually abusing three girls and one boy between the ages of 9 and 14, according to the criminal complaint filed against him Tuesday night by the Kansas Attorney General’s Office.

Akins is charged with one count of rape of a child, 12 counts of aggravated indecent liberties with a child, two counts of aggravated indecent solicitation of a child, one count of indecent solicitation of a child, one count of lewd and lascivious behavior, and two counts of misdemeanor battery.

The crimes are alleged to have occurred between December 2008 and December 2009.

[December]

Seems like an attempt to augment, or interfere with, psychosexual development.I was criticized by alerting for what I think being a social tragedy in Europe, when legislation was passed to legalize gay-marriage.

Many criticized me because I was apparently over-ruling other people's lives, lobbying for taking rights away from them. I am not. As I said, the point of these baby steps of them is to go further ahead in making new rolemodels for the generations to come.

Not surprisingly the first condom advertising for gays is to be broadcasted in the next week. Can't you see this is not about rights but about promoting "Baphometism"?


Hello everybody! The subject "paedophilia" as well as child pornography has been much discussed on the occasion of the planned internet censorship in Germany. In the course of sexual liberalization, there had indeed been attempts to legalize sex relations between children and adults, especially by members of the German Green PartyThe Green Party in Portugal was against "this" recently approved gay-marriage in Portugal... because it left out gay-adoption. The suspects of always.


There is hardly any difference between low life and decadent one.
The Dutch ultra liberal lifestyle is on the verge of an explosion.
Don't worry, you are not alone. Soon we will join you.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Not surprisingly the first condom advertising for gays is to be broadcasted in the next week. Can't you see this is not about rights but about promoting "Baphometism"?

The Templar's Reich (http://user.cyberlink.ch/%7Ekoenig/2006/pro/pene.htm) - The Slaves Shall Serve. Aleister Crowley - Ordo Templi Orientis - Fraternitas Saturni - Theodor Reuss - Hanns Heinz Ewers - Lanz von Liebenfels - Karl Germer, Arnoldo Krumm-Heller - Martha Kuentzel - Friedrich Lekve - Hermann Joseph Metzger - Christian Bouchet - Paolo Fogagnolo - James Wasserman.

[Klärchen]

Good news from the Netherlands:

Paedophile party disbands (http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/03/paedophile_party_disbands.php)

[Groenewolf]

Good news from the Netherlands:

Paedophile party disbands (http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/03/paedophile_party_disbands.php)

They never had a change anyway. It is more the subtle attempts that worry me.

[Arrow Cross]

The development is, he suggests, a natural outcome of the rejection of the Judeo-Christian moral order.
I sometimes wonder on which planet do these people live.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Good news from the Netherlands:

Paedophile party disbands (http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/03/paedophile_party_disbands.php)

Hope they do not become Roman Catholic priests.:D

[Lulletje Rozewater]

I sometimes wonder on which planet do these people live.

As much as I am against this lot of rejects,their behaviour is certainly not because of the religion

[Óttar]

John-Henry Westen
LifeSiteNews.com BERLIN, July 30, 2007(LifeSiteNews.com) - Booklets from a subsidiary of the German government's Ministry for Family Affairs encourage parents to sexually massage their children as young as 1 to 3 years of age.
Gary Jennings in his novel "The Journeyer" claims it was common for Italian women in medieval times to do such things to their children. Who really knows what the purpose was?

I think it is reprehensible for governments and assorted think tanks to actively promote such a thing however, divorced as it is from that historical context.

The Greeks had the erastoi and eremenoi.

[Tony]

Gary Jennings in his novel "The Journeyer" claims it was common for Italian women in medieval times to do such things to their children. Who really knows what the purpose was?
When a few months of age my younger brother had a somewhat unreleased scrotum (I don't know if this is the correct term) , the pediatrician advised our mom to do daily massages him that way in order to help the scrotum to get lower in its proper position.

I don't think everything that regards sexuality or genitals of a kid should be asap think of as paedophiliac if a parent touch it , as a kid my mom used to kiss and bit my ass , she isn't a pervert btw , I can assure you. :p

we've got to be careful not to get into paranoia.

[Klärchen]

Well I've already clarified it's a pamphlet, it's not a legal project and that while there are copies of it still around it's been officially removed from the institutions where it had been distributed before.
Contrary to popular belief, we Germans are not that insane (yet).

Zankapfel, in the past few weeks I have been informing myself about the background of this stuff - and I am horrified! Those who are responsible for the sex education in German schools and kindergarten - and many of the German sexologists still do support active sexualization of even little children. Some awful brochures are no more spread officially, but they are still recommended by Pro Familia. I'll give you more information about this, I have also tried to translate a few things from German articles.

I've been struggling on some forums with people who find all this normal and healthy for the children. - Unfortunately, many Germans are that insane already...

[Klärchen]

Did anyone post this already:
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?action=printpage;topic=163065.0

[Groenewolf]

I've been struggling on some forums with people who find all this normal and healthy for the children. - Unfortunately, many Germans are that insane already...

It goes even that far? :eek:

[RoyBatty]

In the UK it's insane too. They either discussed implementing (or have already done so) GAY sex education for very young kids. The interesting to note here is that it wasn't hetero sex-ed but GAY sex-ed.

This is of course followed up in later years with social engineering classes teaching children how "normal" same sex relationships are, liberalism, PC, "integration", "tolerance" and all the other diseased tripe these people normally push.

The best chance (perhaps) against this indoctrination for now would be faith based schools where they can still to some extent keep some of this liberal filth out of the system (not all of it though). Just remember to keep a beady eye on the priests, lol :D

[Wölfin]

Did anyone post this already:
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?action=printpage;topic=163065.0

I couldn't read the whole thing :eek:

[Loki]

Unfortunately, many Germans are that insane already...

Only Germans or also Poles living in Germany, pretending to be Germans?

[Klärchen]

These three booklets are still recommended on the website of Pro Familia (I've got it only in German, unfortunately):

http://www.mutev.de/MutEV_Kategorien/aufklaerung/lieben_kuscheln_schmusen_Pro_Familia.htm

http://www.ciao.de/Lisa_und_Jan_Ein_Aufklarungsbuch_fur_Kinder_und_ih re_Eltern_Herrath_Frank_Sielert_Uwe__Test_1811517

The booklet "Zeig mal!" was also translated into English ("Show Me!"):
http://www.zeit.de/1996/42/Der_Schatten_von_1968

And especially the paedophiles deeply regret that it is no more available:
http://www.itp-arcados.net/presse-zeig-mal.php

Will McBride, the photographer of "Show Me!", is still presenting child porn and is even available on Google:

http://www.will-mcbride-art.com

Please report this site to https://www.inhope.org

And please do also report the photos on top of this site:

http://www.google.de/#hl=de&source=hp&q=will+mcbride&aq=0s&aqi=g-s1&aql=&oq=will+mc+b&gs_rfai=&fp=1bd4ca6c00f5685f

Click on Bilder melden - however, you can only report them one after the other:

So take one photo, click on Melden,

and then go on with Weiteres Bild melden > Melden.

Thanks to you all!

[Klärchen]

Only Germans or also Poles living in Germany, pretending to be Germans?

Hm, I don't know, but I guess people with some religious belief don't support those ambitions.

However, quite a few "scientists" are still following this crackbrained ideology:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,702679,00.html

(The same in German: )
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-71029982.html

Or this guy from Austria:
http://www.freewebs.com/vienna-actionists/ottomuehl.htm
He, at least, recently apologized to his former victims:
http://diepresse.com/home/kultur/kunst/572614/index.do

[Loki]

Hm, I don't know, but I guess people with some religious belief don't support those ambitions.


You sure? Ever heard what Catholic priests do to little choir boys?

[Klärchen]

You sure? Ever heard what Catholic priests do to little choir boys?

But as far as I know, no Polish Catholic priests (by now). :p

[Loki]

But as far as I know, no Polish Catholic priests (by now). :p

Have you ever said anything nice about German people? Why don't you move back to Poland? You remind me of Jarl and your ideology appals me.

[Klärchen]

Loki, dear, what has bitten you? :eek:
I' ve never been in Poland, I'm a German aboriginal, so to speak.
That's why I love the Germans so much... :rolleyes:

[Loki]

Loki, dear, what has bitten you? :eek:
I' ve never been in Poland, I'm a German aboriginal, so to speak.
That's why I love the Germans so much... :rolleyes:

You hate yourself then? You're not a German, you're Polish or half-Polish. The ability to speak does not make one human (parrots can do that too). I've got your number (figuratively speaking).

There are strawberry picking fields in East Anglia.

[Klärchen]

But I cannot even speak Polish... :D

[Loki]

But I cannot even speak Polish... :D

But you can speak German. That's what I meant. It does not make you German. You are certainly not German in heart and spirit. And you make no secret about your disdain for them. Which is why I wonder why you stick around in that country.

[Klärchen]

In fact I am sticking to the place where I grew up, Loki, and where I have family, friends, and memories of happy times. If that had been in some other country, I would like that spot. Do you have any better idea?

[Loki]

In fact I am sticking to the place where I grew up, Loki, and where I have family, friends, and memories of happy times. If that had been in some other country, I would like that spot. Do you have any better idea?

Quite frankly I don't really care where you live. My main point here is that your hatred for Germans is blatantly obvious. You're not fooling me. You can live with it, that's your problem. Just don't expect everyone else to nod in agreement. We know what you're about (at least I do).

[Klärchen]

Loki, I like you! Isn't that enough? :kiss:

[Loki]

Loki, I like you! Isn't that enough? :kiss:

Well look how fast you've disarmed me. Seems you've got my number as well ;) Good skills.

[Osweo]

Umm.... Did I miss something? I never got quite that vibe from Klaerchen. :shrug:

She writes about bad things in Germany out of real concern, not malice, as far as I can tell, so what she's doing is good for Germany.

:confused:

[Inese]

Hmm der Eindruck von Loki stimmt schon ein wenig Klärchen, du weisst ich mag dich schon aber du schreibst echt nicht oft gute Sachen über Deutschland!! :rolleyes: Ich meine es ist wirklich nicht alles nur schlecht und es kommt darauf an wo man in Deutschland ist okay?? Weisst du es gibt nicht viele Leute die Deutschland kennen und wenn du nur immer über die schlechten Seiten schreibst dann glauben alle es ist nur alles scheiße in Deutschland aber das ist echt nicht der Fall! Und ja wie du immer Jarl verteidigst hast hat schon gezeigt das du viel viel viel mehr auf der Seiten von Poleninteressen bist als auf deutschen Interessen ---- richtig patriotisch für das Land bist du nicht und es ist auch nicht nett immer was indirektes zu lesen. Ok?? Sei mir nicht böse aber es ist mein Eindruck! Mag dich trotzdem aber sei nicht immer so " ah die Deutschen typisch".....ist nicht nett! Ich sag dir, in Polen schauts im Vergleich echt total in vielen Landstrichen mies aus und ich weiß es weil wir immer durch Polen fahren wenn wir nach Lettland oder von Lettland nach Deutschland fahren!

[Klärchen]

http://smilys.net/kolobok_smilies/smiley1692.gif We Germans are really in a hard position: when we say we love our country, then we are nazis; when we criticize it, we are unpatriotic. ;)

But as you are all so nice, I will tell you the truth: someone's forgotten me over here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7BsDVArvMw&feature=related

Hallo Inese, glaube bitte nicht, dass es nur auf Äußerlichkeiten ankommt, wenn man durch ein Land reist. Ganz arme Leute in armen Ländern haben vielleicht ein wunderbares Herz! :)

[Klärchen]

Well look how fast you've disarmed me. Seems you've got my number as well ;) Good skills.

:love0020: :fgift:

[Klärchen]

When I heard about this, I just thought this can't be true... :eek:


As an advocate for the protection and safety of all children, I was disturbed to learn a retired University of Hawaii professor, using University of Hawaii credentials, recently published a study that advocated for the legalization of child pornography.

Milton Diamond, a University of Hawaii professor who retired in 2009, used his university credentials when he published his recent study "Pornography and Sex Crimes in the Czech Republic". In it, he claims that child pornography should be made legal -- for the good of children.
This recommendation is incredibly dangerous for children and is contrary to the recommendations of almost every child advocacy organization in the world.

Child pornography exacerbates child sex abuse, is often used to groom children for trafficking and prostitution, and is itself a form of child exploitation. Child pornography is nothing more than pictorial or video evidence of a child being sexually exploited and harmed. So not only does child pornography not reduce child sexual abuse, it includes child sexual abuse in its production.

Since Diamond used his University of Hawaii credentials to publish his recommendation to legalize child pornography, the university is implicated in this dangerous suggestion based on fuzzy science. The ensure the University of Hawaii remains a respected academic institution, you must:

- publicly denounce Diamond's policy recommendation that child pornography be legalized;
- categorically state that Diamond's views do not represent that of the university;
- and tell Diamond he cannot publish future policy reccomendations to legalize child pornography under the name of the University of Hawaii.

I implore you to ensure a policy that will increase child sex trafficking, child rape, and other forms of abuse will not be recommended in the University of Hawaii's name.

Regards,

.......

Please sign the petition! (http://www.change.org/petitions/view/tell_univ_of_hawaii_to_denounce_professors_push_to _legalize_child_porn)

[The Lawspeaker]

Please sign the petition! (http://www.change.org/petitions/view/tell_univ_of_hawaii_to_denounce_professors_push_to _legalize_child_porn)
Signed.

[Turkophagos]

Now Germans won't have to fly to Thailand for that, german government is preventing them from exporting its precious euros outside the country.

[The Lawspeaker]

Like "Germany" caused Greece's problems. Greece's problems are caused by the American/Jewish-led IMF, the plutocratic EU, by big banks and your own incompetent, corrupt politicians and businessmen.

Besides.. Germany.. Greece ? Both are American-occupied satellite states so it is even more silly to feel bitter towards Germany.

[Klärchen]

Now Germans won't have to fly to Thailand for that, german government is preventing them from exporting its precious euros outside the country.

At least they don't have to go very far any more. http://www.smilies.4-user.de/include/Wut/smilie_wut_111.gif

Children in street prostitution – Report from the German-Czech border (http://www.childcentre.info/projects/exploitation/germany/dbaFile11447.doc)

Child Prostitution – Czech Republic (http://gvnet.com/childprostitution/CzechRepublic.htm)

[SwordoftheVistula]

'Milton Diamond'! Oy vey, what ethnicity is this creature!

Luckily Germany now again has some bold men, returned diaspora from Russia, willing to wack the ball off of pedos :thumb001:

[poiuytrewq0987]

Well, considering how Germany is barbarian central so it's not at all surprising to see Germans take interest in doing this shit to their kids.

[Klärchen]

'Milton Diamond'! Oy vey, what ethnicity is this creature!

I have no idea, he lives in Hawaii. He's an old man - you can see him in the video on this site:

http://www.kitv.com/r/25968625/detail.html

[Loki]

Well, considering how Germany is barbarian central

What do you mean?

[SwordoftheVistula]

I have no idea, he lives in Hawaii. He's an old man - you can see him in the video on this site:

http://www.kitv.com/r/25968625/detail.html

He's Jewish

[Klärchen]

He's Jewish

Aha. Hm. :icon_ask:

Dr. Judith Reisman, one of his greatest opponents, is also Jewish...
http://www.drjudithreisman.com/archives/2010/12/sex_prof_child.html