Conversation with Turkish cab driver

[Loki]

He was a Turk from Ankara.

We got talking about Turkey, and he expressed extreme dissatisfaction with the current Turkish government.

He says they are turning away from Ataturk's founding principles and want to do away with his memory. He also says that the current government is too pro-Islamic and this is cause for great concern.

[Absinthe]

We got talking about Turkey, and he expressed extreme dissatisfaction with the current Turkish government.

He says they are turning away from Ataturk's founding principles and want to do away with his memory. He also says that the current government is too pro-Islamic and this is cause for great concern.

Didn't you know that already? I thought the whole world knows about this. :icon_neutral:

Anyway the Turks that I have met with, from a specific class and socioeconomic/educational level, are extremely discontent with Erdoğan and his Islamic bullshit and of course his growing deviation from the Kemalist principles. I really wonder who votes for Erdoğan as I have yet to meet anyone who does.

[Loki]

I didn't know it was that bad.

Any chance for a change of government in the future? This is just outrageous.

[kabeiros]

Didn't you know that already? I thought the whole world knows about this. :icon_neutral:

Anyway the Turks that I have met with, from a specific class and socioeconomic/educational level, are extremely discontent with Erdoğan and his Islamic bullshit and of course his growing deviation from the Kemalist principles. I really wonder who votes for Erdoğan as I have yet to meet anyone who does. You have answered your own question Absinthe, some educated upper class Turks don't like Erdogan but the millions of not well educated, devoted Muslim Turks of the rural areas voted for him. Turkey is not only the west, Europe-like part...

[Absinthe]

You have answered your own question Absinthe, some educated upper class Turks don't like Erdogan but the millions of not well educated, devoted Muslim Turks of the rural areas voted for him. Turkey is not only the west, Europe-like part...
You must be right, I guess. My acquaintances are specifically higher education, western minded, upper middle class. I haven't met anyone outside of it. :nod:

[Hayalet]

Islamists are a minority among those who vote for Erdogan. His party is essentially a coalition where economically liberal socially conservative centre-right makes up the majority.

[Loki]

Islamists are a minority among those who vote for Erdogan. His party is essentially a coalition where economically liberal socially conservative centre-right makes up the majority.

Then why do the socially conservative majority put up with his Islamist nonsense?

[legolasbozo]

i voted for erdogan. But i agree with altay, many peoples voting him for just econmic reasons., many peoples from upper class. İ drink alchool, smoke weed occasionally i know erdogan oppose all of these, sometimes he is bring new rules to diminish their consumtion but he can't eventually. İslamic lifestyle isn't strict in Turkey. Most of the islamist don't care much other's lifestyle, they are also %30-35 of the society

[Absinthe]

Then why do the socially conservative majority put up with his Islamist nonsense?
I think it is safe to assume it's because of the funds that Erdoğan brings in from Arabic countries.

[Hayalet]

Then why do the socially conservative majority put up with his Islamist nonsense?
Other centre-right parties are pretty much dead. And these people aren't going to vote for the social democrat centre-left CHP which they consider stagnant.

[Loki]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Turkey#July_2007_election_results_and_ analysis

Erdogan's party seems by far the most popular, with 46.66% of the vote.

The Kemalist opposition came in second with 20.85%.

[Graus]

He is quite popular among many Turks in my country but then those are mostly (by their own choice) uneducated Anatolian peasants. I doubt many of them knew what Atatürk stood for, they are content with their ability to identify their flag.

[legolasbozo]

erdogan has populist politics, ad he was the mayor of istanbul. But because of a poem he got into prison thus he gain sympathy of the society. People thought he governed istanbul very well, so he can do the same for Turkey. But his last actions, negotiations with pkk, isn't approved by society. But nationalist party leader is so pasive(calm) and also 4 of the party rulers blackmailed for their sex tape with hookers at last election so they lost nationalist-islamic voters support. There is a religious group in turkey, gulen group, probably they prepared this scandale to gain their's vote.

[Onur]

There is some kind of ideological warfare, a cold war between the hardcore AKP supporters and kemalists for about 6 years in Turkey. I strictly oppose AKP policies myself but i think you got that already.


Any chance for a change of government in the future? This is just outrageous.
No, unless Turkey goes worse economically. Only an economical crisis can save us from AKP anymore.


You must be right, I guess. My acquaintances are specifically higher education, western minded, upper middle class. I haven't met anyone outside of it. :nod:

Then why do the socially conservative majority put up with his Islamist nonsense?
Absinth, only 20% of Turkish voters are islamist but AKP took around %46 of total votes. AKP created a new kind of bourgeois class in Turkey. They are educated and rich but they support AKP because current government funds them by delivering most of the public bids for construction businesses. AKP makes them richer and they support them in return.

AKP also gets around 60% of Kurdish people`s votes [the rest 40% votes for ethnic Kurdish PKK party] because they give insane amount of welfare funds to them by using the Turkish taxpayers money. Around 80% of Kurds in eastern Turkey never pays any utility bills, they get free healthcare, monthly social care funds for each child they give birth and some bonuses like free shopping coupons from supermarkets operated by their own businessmen.


I think it is safe to assume it's because of the funds that Erdoğan brings in from Arabic countries.
Thats true. Since AKP came to power, billions of dollars gets transferred to Turkey from Arabian gulf countries. AKP sells them some state owned companies, valuable lands from the cities for constructing giant shopping malls, in return.


Other centre-right parties are pretty much dead. And these people aren't going to vote for the social democrat centre-left CHP which they consider stagnant.
This is also another reason of why AKP is untouchable anymore because they are currently the only powerful rightist party. The others lost their support among people. The 2nd rightist party of MHP gets around 13% of votes.

[Hurrem sultana]

What are the views of the turkish secular upper class when it comes to islam? is it seen as something backwards?

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Upper class?
What do you mean by upper class? There is no anti Islamic upper class and Islamic underdogs..Most Turkish families from middleclass are originally second generation rural people like my family ,only more educated.They are not anti Islam ,but they don't want Islam to be a political tool and they are against Great Middleast Comedy.

[Hurrem sultana]

I mean pro western secular people who see the islamic tradition as backwards

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

What is pro western ,can you define me first?

[Onur]

I mean pro western secular people who see the islamic tradition as backwards
LunaRose, actually we have the exact opposite of what you say.

Most secular people here are only pro-Turkish here, nothing else. Most of them are anti-western too.

On the contrary, most nonsecular people, especially their opinion makers are pro-USA and NATO. In the corner of non-secularists, already it doesn't matter what the ordinary people say or think, their decision makers, the leaders are what matters. The ordinary people just goes with the flow, does what their leaders says. They think like their leaders knows the best and always does the best for them. I think this is a result of dogmatic teachings and religious mind slavery. They don't like to think but prefers someone else to think for them.

[Cannabis Sativa]

Then why do the socially conservative majority put up with his Islamist nonsense?

It's up to economic issues. They think Erdoğan is boosting Turkish economy, keeping it dynamic, keeping the currency alive and furthermore they think they will face no economic crisis during Erdoğan Era. To be fair, they may have some rights. Because left wing parties and their coalitions literally fucked our economy in the past. I'd vote social conservatives(since i'm not one of them, neither do i have any organic contact with Islamic parties or center-right wing except one or two-i'd vote former DYP if they were available and strong enough to take some chairs). But, as Altay stated center-right wing is pretty dead.

[Kemalisté]

In 2001, Turkey was at the edge of bankrupcy just like Greece. Now you can take a look at Turkey. That's why they vote for Erdogan. It's nothing to do with them being Islamist or something. Erdogan is being seen as a second Ataturk who turned Turkey into a global economically powerful country from its dead ashes.

Kemalist and secularists have a paranoia that Erdogan will bring an Islamist regime because of his roots, but people change. He's been in power for 10 years, and now, having broken the power of the military and the judiciary, there is nothing that could stop him from doing that. He even went to Egypt, Tunisia and Libya and promoted a secular constitution there.

Even though I hate him, I don't believe that he has an Islamist agenda. But a social conservative agenda similar to the Christian Democrats.