Eesti elu Estonian Life

[Äike]

PDF fail is here (http://web-static.vm.ee/static/failid/220/eesti_elu.pdf) and the HTML version is here (http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:LQp52KVPMGMJ:web-static.vm.ee/static/failid/220/eesti_elu.pdf+Estonians+in+2050&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk)


THESE ARE ESTONIANS
When dealing with Estonians, keep in mind the
following: do not call Estonia a former Soviet
republic or an Eastern European country –
Estonians consider themselves Scandinavian and
their country a Nordic, not Baltic State. Do not
treat Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania as a single
region, the Estonians take pride in themselves
and are Western-oriented. Do not talk out loud.
Do not brag. Estonians are not inspired by anyone
thinking everything can be produced in Estonia at
virtually no cost. Estonia is a clan society where all
who know each other stick together. It may seem
difficult to establish contact with Estonians, but
once you get to know them they’re sincere and
the sense of humour – sarcastic and full of self-
irony – helps explain their nature. (JP, 29.01)

This PDF is from 2004, thus being half a decade old, so keep in mind that Estonia is even more advanced now.

[Jarl]

There are undoubtedly strong ties with Sweden and Finland, and even Denmark, and so Estonia is a Scandinavian-influenced country in both cultural and historical sense, but IS it really a Scandinavian/Nordic country itself? I guess it is not. I perfectly understand Estonian dislike of Russians and communism, and the desire to "cut off" all ties with that part of their history, however this strong desire sometimes takes a slightly extreme shape.

[Äike]

There are undoubtedly strong ties with Sweden and Finland, and even Denmark, and so Estonia is a Scandinavian-influenced country in both cultural and historical sense, but IS it really a Scandinavian/Nordic country itself? I guess it is not. I perfectly understand Estonian dislike of Russians and communism, and the desire to "cut off" all ties with that part of their history, however this strong desire sometimes takes a slightly extreme shape.

50 years of occupation doesn't change the past.


Estonians are not very comfortable with being referred as Eastern-Europeans. Estonians consider themselves a Nordic nation because of their location in the north which has strongly influenced their way of life and still does. Before WWII, Estonia was considered a Nordic country in the other Nordic countries. They are closely related to the Finns, and they also have very strong historical and cultural ties with Sweden, Denmark and Germany. Estonia is a Lutheran Protestant country, like other Nordic countries, and unlike Eastern-European countries which are mainly Eastern Orthodox Christian.

[EWtt]

There are undoubtedly strong ties with Sweden and Finland, and even Denmark, and so Estonia is a Scandinavian-influenced country in both cultural and historical sense, but IS it really a Scandinavian/Nordic country itself?

I think in order to be considered Nordic politically the country has to belong to the Nordic Council?

Estonia isn't Scandinavian, and I don't consider Finland as such, either. "Nordic" is another thing. Like Finns have the term "Pohjanmaa", we have for ages called ourselves a "Põhjamaa" and naturally, culturally Estonians feel a greater connection with, say Finland, rather than some other countries which were also forcefully left behind the Iron Curtain.

Well, the greatest influences to the Estonian culture (and language) actually come from the Germans who were pretty much in charge here for 700 years (like Swedes in Finland). So, it all comes down to how you interpret the concept of the term "Nordic".


Before the 19th century, the term 'Nordic' or 'Northern' was commonly used to mean Northern Europe in a sense that included the Nordic countries, European Russia, the Baltic countries (at that time Estonia, Livonia and Courland).

[Jarl]

50 years of occupation doesn't change the past.

:) Thanks God it does not! However, I agree Estonia has a strong Scandinavian link. Historically its possibly the most Scandinavian non-Scandinavian country ;)

[esaima]

:) Thanks God it does not! However, I agree Estonia has a strong Scandinavian link. Historically its possibly the most Scandinavian non-Scandinavian country ;)
The most Scandinavic non-Scandinavian country is probably Finland, after it-Estonia.

[esaima]

I perfectly understand Estonian dislike of Russians and communism, and the desire to "cut off" all ties with that part of their history, however this strong desire sometimes takes a slightly extreme shape.
Of course!

[esaima]

Well, to be honest-geographically Estonia is close to Russia.

[Jarl]

The most Scandinavic non-Scandinavian country is probably Finland, after it-Estonia.

I'd call Finland Scandinavian, and semi-Nordic, arguably Nordic. Estonia is rather Scandinavian/Nordic - influenced ;)

[Äike]

Isn't Iceland the most Scandinavian non-Scandinavian country? That's my opinion.

[nisse]

Why are Estonians so eager to call themselves "Nordic"? They have, together with Finns, very unique cultural roots. I'm puzzled as to why they don't emphasize that more?

[Jarl]

Because they hate Russians and the East, like I said here:


There are undoubtedly strong ties with Sweden and Finland, and even Denmark, and so Estonia is a Scandinavian-influenced country in both cultural and historical sense, but IS it really a Scandinavian/Nordic country itself? I guess it is not. I perfectly understand Estonian dislike of Russians and communism, and the desire to "cut off" all ties with that part of their history, however this strong desire sometimes takes a slightly extreme shape.


Besides, they have nothing to be ashamed off. Their culture, though distinct, is definitely strongly influenced by Germanic Nordic peoples. Particularly in Finland

[nisse]

Besides, they have nothing to be ashamed off. Their culture, though distinct, is definitely strongly influenced by Germanic Nordic peoples. Particularly in Finland
Precisely! Why define themselves by the (relatively) minor Nordic element instead of the major Finnic element?


Because they hate Russians and the East
Despite the fact that Russia is home to many Finno-Ugric populations, it's a Slavic state. Defining yourself as Finnic is just as anti-Russian as saying you are Nordic.

I'm just sort of upset that they seem to be underplaying their own (amazingly interesting) culture for some show for the benefit of those looking in from the outside :(. Or is this just something that is reserved for the outside?

[Äike]

Why are Estonians so eager to call themselves "Nordic"? They have, together with Finns, very unique cultural roots. I'm puzzled as to why they don't emphasize that more?


Finland and Estonia are unique, but they belong to the Scandinavian/Northern European spectrum.

Estonia and Scandinavia have over 1000 years of common history, similar culture and similar customs. Estonian Vikings have been mentioned in Icelandic sagas etc.

Even today, the main economic partners of Estonia are Scandinavian countries and Germany.

I myself have distant Estonian-Swede ancestry. Estonians and Scandinavians are quite close in many aspects.

[Svarog]

Just please don't turn it into another 50 pages fight thread :D

What do you guys mean when you say a Nordic element, like a cultural, geographical position, anthropological etc it always confuses me :confused:

[Äike]

Just please don't turn it into another 50 pages fight thread :D

What do you guys mean when you say a Nordic element, like a cultural, geographical position, anthropological etc it always confuses me :confused:

All 3 apply to Estonia.

[Svarog]

In that case Russia can be considered Nordic too, at least a part of it, people should be more specific about these things.

[Äike]

In that case Russia can be considered Nordic too, at least a part of it, people should be more specific about these things.

Only NW-Russia can be considered Nordic, because of ancient ties with Scandinavians and the Finnic inhabitants. Although the true heartland (http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/russia/Muscovy.jpg&usg=AFQjCNEUClSQZUBXObNw1m0BQASGzugSag) of Russia can't be considered Nordic.

[Svarog]

Only NW-Russia can be considered Nordic, because of ancient ties with Scandinavians and the Finnic inhabitants. Although the true heartland (http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/russia/Muscovy.jpg&usg=AFQjCNEUClSQZUBXObNw1m0BQASGzugSag) of Russia can't be considered Nordic.

Yeah that's what I had in mind, tho, the true Heartland of Slavic people in the east is actually Kiev imo, not the Moscowia

[EWtt]

Precisely! Why define themselves by the (relatively) minor Nordic element instead of the major Finnic element?

Actually Finns and Estonians do mainly define themselves by the ancestral Baltic-Finnic elements in the culture: sauna, runo songs, epics of Kalevala and Kalevipoeg, pagan midsummer celebrations, closeness with nature, etc. But that is only one component of our culture, numerous Germanic influences were gained before and since the Northern Crusades, hence the also dominant cultural similarities which tie these nations with the Northern European/Nordic region.