There's probably no God [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Illancha

01-24-2013, 01:24 PM

I find it hypocritical for societies to dissuade or actively ban religious education and yet allow militant athiests, such as Dawkins, to preach their own beliefs in public and specifically at schools.

I personally do believe in God without question. Even though I do identify with Islam, I am in no position to tell anyone what they should or should not do, only to advise. I have never looked kindly on those who try to impose their beliefs on others and resort to ridiculing one's supposedly 'inferior' intellect when faced with criticism, again Dawkins being a prime example.

As I see it, I simply invite people to listen. If they agree with what I have to say that's fine, if they don't that's also fine.

The quote in my signature sums it up nicely.

Illancha

01-24-2013, 01:26 PM

if a God is exist why is going the war and economic crisis in the world? Why does he allow all that? :rolleyes: just interesting
God's job is not to come down, grab our hand and walk us across the road. He simply puts the means for good in the world and it is up to us to utilise it.

Besides if God had an obvious and direct influence in our lives, then there would be no faith or belief in his existence, only knowledge.

Hurrem sultana

01-24-2013, 01:27 PM

I am sure 90% of you will start believe once death reaches you,once you get old and sick

then it is too late :D

Mistel

01-24-2013, 01:27 PM

I find it a really depressing thought that perhaps there is no God after all...

iNird

01-24-2013, 01:38 PM

I find it a really depressing thought that perhaps there is no God after all...

Ye it's easier to live thinking you will go to heaven and spend your eternal life eating grapes while floating on a cloud.

Methmatician

01-24-2013, 01:40 PM

I am sure 90% of you will start believe once death reaches you,once you get old and sick

Those people were always religious.

Hurrem sultana

01-24-2013, 01:46 PM

Those people were always religious.

No you should see some communists of Bosnia who suddenly started reading Koran before death:rolleyes::D:picard1:

Loki

01-24-2013, 01:49 PM

I find it a really depressing thought that perhaps there is no God after all...

It can actually be quite liberating, and make one appreciate this mortal life more fully :)

Methmatician

01-24-2013, 01:50 PM

No you should see some communists of Bosnia who suddenly started reading Koran before death:rolleyes::D:picard1:

Because they were always religious. Many hardcore communists became capitalists overnight as well.

Windischer

01-24-2013, 01:50 PM

that goes not only for communists in bosnia :D

iNird

01-24-2013, 01:52 PM

No you should see some communists of Bosnia who suddenly started reading Koran before death:rolleyes::D:picard1:

People who dont think clearly do this, same logic applies to religious followers.

:D

Hayalet

01-24-2013, 01:54 PM

No you should see some communists of Bosnia who suddenly started reading Koran before death:rolleyes::D:picard1:
Have you considered that might be an argument against the fear of death (that it makes people believe in irrational things) rather than an argument for the existence of god?

“There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes - James Morrow

Teyrn

01-24-2013, 02:07 PM

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/74533_429203560483195_570495044_n.jpg

The fact that Dawkins has to resort to such cliched, politically correct terminology shows that he's just another sneering intellectual boor who has only a literal (i.e. the most basic) understanding of the Bible and its God. I'm surprised hat he didn't call God a Nazi.

He's too unsophisticated to do much more than give the Old Testament and the rest of the sacred writings more than a superficial glance, something which only the ignorant do, and then assume that he knows it all about the Bible. :picard2: The Jews can disprove you Mr. Dawkins- or do you know more than Moses Maimonides, Philo of Alexandria, etc.? So can the Christians, regardless of denomination- or do you know more than St. Origen, etc? Hm, he must clearly be a superior entity if he knows more than all of those rabbis, priests, etc. combined.

Dawkins is guilty of a particularly noxious crime: the sin of pride, which is the root of all evil in the world. You may disbelieve in God Mr. Dawkins but you serve another master- even if you don't know it- and he's more than happy to drag you down to hell with him. :bored:

Rastko

01-24-2013, 02:15 PM

I believe in death,the only unstoppable force.

''Memento mori.''

Mans not hot

01-24-2013, 02:18 PM

If God exists then you as an agnostic would be in trouble and wake up in hell ;)
I'm not sure if he exists but sort of dont care as I'm not very religious person. I like to believe in resurrection and be born as someone else because I don't like to think about death too much.

Drawing-slim

01-24-2013, 02:20 PM

God seems to be a master troll:D

Teyrn

01-24-2013, 02:22 PM

I called Origen a Saint. I was thinking of St. Cyril, who was also of the School of Alexandria. ;p

Mans not hot

01-24-2013, 02:25 PM

Well... It depends on how you interpret your religion. I like to believe that all religions have good and try to include all the peaceful and honourable aspects of it, and embrace life thinking there is a God. I try to use all the good there is in religion.
Religion can be very good if you're secular about it. :)
Religion is too harsh and political- people overreact about it. Whilst it may offer a calming resolution to the end of your life, it is also too hyperbolical and damaging to our culture.

SKYNET

01-24-2013, 03:52 PM

When I was a little kid, I believed in aliens :) I believe in science now.

Onur

01-24-2013, 04:04 PM

If God exists then you as an agnostic would be in trouble and wake up in hell ;)
What if it doesn't exist at all?

I am not that stupid to reorganize my whole life for some tiny probability.

The existence or nonexistence of God has no effect to my life nor to my ideas. If it exists, good for the religious ones, if it doesnt, then good for the atheists. I am neither of those, so it`s not my business. As an agnostic myself, i don't care if it exists or not.

I am sure 90% of you will start believe once death reaches you,once you get old and sick

then it is too late :D
Too late for what?

You really believe that there is heaven and hell in afterlife? You really believe there is an afterlife at all? These are just mind tricks based on fear of death. This is a basic human nature, inventing a reason, a purpose for the unknown, a purpose for the afterlife.

Hurrem sultana

01-24-2013, 04:07 PM

Yes i believe

Deimos

01-24-2013, 04:20 PM

Virtuous

01-24-2013, 04:21 PM

How can one be SURE no god exists? What is God to us? A bearded man that enjoys flooding humanity nd other shit, or it's beyond our understanding to say that WE UNDERSTAND who is god? At the same time how can one be so sure that a god DOES IN FACT EXIST?

So my conclusion is, both atheists and believers are idiotic pieces of shit.

Lithium

01-24-2013, 04:24 PM

Atheism itself is a form of religious beliefs. I think that there is a god (I hate that word) I am Pagan and for my years of pratice I can honestly say that there is a god and we are part of it(I don't like the Abrahamic definition of god as a male being)

Teyrn

01-24-2013, 04:31 PM

The concept of the biblical God is that of a sadistic, malevolent, control freak, who will reward the submissive and punish the disobedient ones, and this is a political concept developed to restore order in societies by using the innate fear of humanity from the unknown and most of all, death.

God calls the faithful to fellowship and it's the destiny of mankind to become "like gods," following Christ as the example. Obedience to God in no way suggests that one is submissive- rather it suggests that one is willing and able, often at great personal cost, to put aside his or her own baser nature in order to follow the life of faith. The Bible portrays Jesus in conflict in the garden of Gethsemane on the night before he was captured- he didn't want to die (i.e. he had his own desire to avoid death) but he knew that was what the Father intended for him- dying for the greater, universal good.

Materialists such as Dawkins are selfish and, unlike Jesus, think nothing of such higher ideals.

Mans not hot

01-24-2013, 04:31 PM

Arrow Cross

01-24-2013, 04:32 PM

I've never seen any empirical evidence of the existence of Richard Dawkins. He probably doesn't exist.

Deimos

01-24-2013, 04:32 PM

God calls the faithful to fellowship and it's the destiny of mankind to become "like gods," following Christ as the example. Obedience to God in no way suggests that one is submissive- rather it suggests that one is willing and able, often at great cost, to put aside his or her own baser nature in order to follow the life of faith.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdwdshKXQp1rlerpuo1_500.gif

Insuperable

01-24-2013, 04:36 PM

If God exists then you as an agnostic would be in trouble and wake up in hell ;)

And what would hell be and why do you think he would wake up? It would be more like sleep (eternal non existence) than wake up.

Teyrn

01-24-2013, 04:37 PM

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdwdshKXQp1rlerpuo1_500.gif

Thanks for proving my point: materialists are simply ignorant of the thing that they criticize. :bored:

Deimos

01-24-2013, 04:42 PM

Thanks for proving my point: materialists are simply ignorant of the thing that they criticize. :bored:

Well, if it makes you feel any better... :thumb001:

Virtuous

01-24-2013, 04:46 PM

No one can be so sure whether its fictionalized or not. We have to embrace the possibility that there might be no god.

That is why being Agnostic is the most logical choice. I believe in both possibilities, however I mostly believe in myself and live by the morals that were constructed since the earliest gatherings/groups of mankind. Though you gotta be selfish in certain cases because society has evolved into an individualistic one.

Mans not hot

01-24-2013, 05:40 PM

That is why being Agnostic is the most logical choice. I believe in both possibilities, however I mostly believe in myself and live by the morals that were constructed since the earliest gatherings/groups of mankind. Though you gotta be selfish in certain cases because society has evolved into an individualistic one.
Well it is a fresh breath of air not to be conflicted by the morals of science or religion.

Deimos

01-25-2013, 11:19 AM

The supposed Abrahamic God existence brings up many questions and dilemmas, one of them being...

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/481170_482309305144548_1590892494_n.png

Vojnik

01-25-2013, 12:59 PM

Windischer

01-25-2013, 01:02 PM

id say that there still would be reasons, but only subjective ones :)
after all, killing somebody would only mean causing a dysfunction in an organic mass

Virtuous

01-25-2013, 01:10 PM

Answer me this people. If there is no God, heaven and hell, is there any reason to uphold moral order in the world? is there any reason not to murder and rape someone, if at the end there is no God to judge you?

Like I mentioned before, morals have not been established because of religion, actually religion is what came after morals. Morals have been created since the first groups of humans, it was necessary to make unwritten rules so that groups would survive. Of course with the evolution of mankind morals have taken many different variations.

Today we lack morals because society has become an individualistic and selfish one.

SkyBurn

01-25-2013, 01:18 PM

King Claus

01-25-2013, 01:19 PM

ofcourse there's no god, it's a pack of lies made up by greedy capitilist minds.

Deimos

01-25-2013, 01:19 PM

Answer me this people. If there is no God, heaven and hell, is there any reason to uphold moral order in the world? is there any reason not to murder and rape someone, if at the end there is no God to judge you?

That's why religion is regarded as useful by those who govern, because it's a moral authority that keeps order in the world by using the fear of punishment.

If fear from god it is the only thing that keeps the humanity from doing wrong at this point of civilization then I'd say we are merely some wretched, cowardly and pitiful beings.

King Claus

01-25-2013, 01:22 PM

God could also by mis interpreted because the lack of science.
We might just be descendants of aliens, genetically engineered slaves we are :)

Rouxinol

01-25-2013, 01:26 PM

Yes, it's a possibility, and a very reasonable one, but as an agnostic I don't care. If God exists, good, if He doesn't, good too.

:p

Virtuous

01-25-2013, 01:29 PM

:p

you MONSTER, you created another dilemma because we don't know the gender of god either!

What next, DIVIDE SOMETHING BY ZERO?!?!

Sabinae

01-25-2013, 01:30 PM

Believe in a better Being...always.... and try to achieve that state :)

Vojnik

01-25-2013, 01:31 PM

Like I mentioned before, morals have not been established because of religion, actually religion is what came after morals. Morals have been created since the first groups of humans, it was necessary to make unwritten rules so that groups would survive. Of course with the evolution of mankind morals have taken many different variations.

Today we lack morals because society has become an individualistic and selfish one.

What morals did humans have before religion came about? Ancient Greeks, for example, raped there own young sons as they thought it will make them into men. And ancient Greeks were supposedly the most civilised, but yet they raped, pillaged cities and murdered with no morals.

Today, if there is no such thing as God, then what's stopping us from reverting back to the ancient Greek way of life? Why we don't revert back? It is because of the fear that we will be punished by the full force of the law, and ultimately by God.

Virtuous

01-25-2013, 01:35 PM

What morals did humans have before religion came about? Ancient Greeks, for example, raped there own young sons as they thought it will make them into men. And ancient Greeks were supposedly the most civilised, but yet they raped, pillaged cities and murdered with no morals.

Today, if there is no such thing as God, then what's stopping us from reverting back to the ancient Greek way of life? Why we don't revert back? It is because of the fear that we will be punished by the full force of the law, and ultimately by God.

At that point in time Humanity had reached a consciousness that simple 'tribal codes' were not useful anymore, and a form of authority had to be established, be it God or Laws. Today we have evolved to a stage where we need Tribal laws/values (such as solidarity) and not a terrible and punishing God...oh the irony :D.

Mans not hot

01-25-2013, 03:40 PM

Today, if there is no such thing as God, then what's stopping us from reverting back to the ancient Greek way of life? Why we don't revert back? It is because of the fear that we will be punished by the full force of the law, and ultimately by God.
It's an obvious answer; Science. We are so advanced technically and physically that a society can learn to survive without God. There may be some unhinged people who can't handle that fact but it is not the fault of us but theirs. We just deal with it in our own way, hostile or not.

Virtuous

01-25-2013, 03:43 PM

First step of Human civilization: Unwritten rules in hunter-gatherer groups.

Second: Monarchies, Authority, Religion.

Third: Science and spirituality.

Mans not hot

01-25-2013, 03:51 PM

First step of Human civilization: Unwritten rules in hunter-gatherer groups.

Second: Monarchies, Authority, Religion.

Third: Science and spirituality.
The rules are dated now. The time has evolved and the law of nature is rightfully changed.

Mans not hot

01-25-2013, 03:52 PM

Besides, If I am to be honest- I think discussing in mature topics such as this is utter tripe. It is basically bullshit and talking about it doesn't help us to understand God or people at all. There is no point.

Teyrn

01-25-2013, 03:54 PM

The rules are dated now. The time has evolved and the law of nature is rightfully changed.

Human subjectivity arrogantly proclaims this to be so methinks. I don't see any of the planets flying out of the solar system willy-nilly- so the law of gravity, like all of the laws of nature that we know of, remains unerringly consistent.

Vasconcelos

01-25-2013, 03:55 PM

If God exists he must be shocked at the attrocities people do in His name.

Illancha

01-25-2013, 04:15 PM

If God exists he must be shocked at the attrocities people do in His name.
Not at all, since God already knows.

Look at it this way, God guides us and shows us the way and it is up to us whether we take it or not. As I said earlier, God is not meant to descend from the heavens, take our hand and help us cross the road or pluck a drowning person out of the ocean.

God places the means to do 'Good' in us and in the world around us and it is our responsibility to recognise that and make use of it.

Mans not hot

01-25-2013, 04:23 PM

Human subjectivity arrogantly proclaims this to be so methinks. I don't see any of the planets flying out of the solar system willy-nilly- so the law of gravity, like all of the laws of nature that we know of, remains unerringly consistent.
You are just responding to the laws of physics that is all. Actually it isn't an answer but a scientific explanation I'm which doesn't relate to the matter at hand

Loki

01-25-2013, 04:57 PM

If God exists he must be shocked at the attrocities people do in His name.

God actually ordered the massacres of the Old Testament. A lunatic psycho.

Loki

01-25-2013, 05:00 PM

Answer me this people. If there is no God, heaven and hell, is there any reason to uphold moral order in the world? is there any reason not to murder and rape someone, if at the end there is no God to judge you?

I don't believe in God and yet I have never murdered or raped anyone. it is beyond my character.

Is the fear of God all that is keeping Christians from doing that? :eek:

Twistedmind

01-25-2013, 05:05 PM

Modern ethics are largely based on New Testament ethics. Even secularisation is. On other hand, atheists could be moral, it is not even serious to ask.

Aredhel

01-25-2013, 05:05 PM

Gott ist tot!!! :eek:

Well, almost all humans want to believe that there's a god it's something inherent to human race.

I'm atheist and I've never seen a clue that indicates there's a god and for years religion has manipulated people. IMO we are the ones who forged our own destiny, everything that happen to us it's our fault.

Incel King

01-25-2013, 05:06 PM

Non-sense. If God doesn't exist then what's reason why we're all exist? What created universe? Everything in life have a cause.

Teyrn

01-25-2013, 05:11 PM

God actually ordered the massacres of the Old Testament. A lunatic psycho.

http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/201004/201004_138_Canannites.cfm

It doesn't occur to people that the narrations of the supposed massacres in the Old Testament, of the Canaanites, etc., are often hyperbolized for dramatic effect.

Again, the literal view is often the wrong view to take of the Bible. It's generally believed that the Flood is a a bit of legendary- yet the same people who believe in this also take the narratives of the "Conquest of Canaan" at face value. So does this make the event of the Jews blowing the walls of Jericho down with their horns true..?

Twistedmind

01-25-2013, 05:12 PM

Then for what reason does a god exist?

Well, if you look it from methapysical perspective, He does not need cause to exist, since God is Ultimate being. No restriction whatsover. ;) Not time, not begining. He created this world, so he could not be restriced by cathegories of that world. That is point of view of Christianity on subject.

Aredhel

01-25-2013, 05:14 PM

I don't believe in God and yet I have never murdered or raped anyone. it is beyond my character.

Is the fear of God all that is keeping Christians from doing that? :eek:

There are a lot of hypocrites who attend every sunday to church and commited crimes. If you're religious doesn't mean you're a "good" person.

Fear of God has lead to manipulation, just look what catholic church made for years and and still makes, don't forget the crusades, inquisition, etc. And the cases of pedophile which are covered by the pope.

Twistedmind

01-25-2013, 05:16 PM

Fear of God has lead to manipulation, just look what catholic church made for years and and still makes, don't forget the crusades, inquisition, etc. And the cases of pedophile which are covered by the pope.

Fear of God made people to commit crimes? Excuse me but your tought is not coherent. There are religious people who are evil, but it is not fault of religion, it is their own.

Incel King

01-25-2013, 05:28 PM

Then for what reason does a god exist?

God.

Aredhel

01-25-2013, 05:33 PM

Fear of God made people to commit crimes? Excuse me but your tought is not coherent. There are religious people who are evil, but it is not fault of religion, it is their own.

I mean priest manipulate to make their will, you can't underestimate religion power.
In the past they told them that if they pay them they assured you that you'd go to heaven when you'd die. And what do you think of pedophile cases? In mexico there was a priest called Massiel who raped children and was proptected by Johannes Paulus II, he said that he didn't know anything about that. This is only a case there are more.

When someone has so much power can lead it to derail the "initial purpose" and that happened to the church. Remembered that all institutions can corrupt.

Panopticon

01-25-2013, 05:34 PM

Well, if you look it from methapysical perspective, He does not need cause to exist, since God is Ultimate being. No restriction whatsover. ;) Not time, not begining. He created this world, so he could not be restriced by cathegories of that world. That is point of view of Christianity on subject.

The religious always point out that their deity (or -ies) are not restricted to this world in the way we understand it. If they do not have to confine themselves to realistic, logical ways of thinking, then their beliefs are unfalsifiable. If their beliefs are unfalsifiable, there is no point in giving the religious even the tiniest bit of credit. Religion should therefore simply be disregarded.

Fear of God made people to commit crimes? Excuse me but your tought is not coherent. There are religious people who are evil, but it is not fault of religion, it is their own.

You say that despite the fact that religions promote many things we consider to be evil today. Slavery, violence, irrationality (f.e. anti-prevention, despite AIDS epidemics and overpopulation) and misogyny, only to mention a few things.

King Claus

01-25-2013, 05:36 PM

Then for what reason does a god exist?

God exist in your fantasy, implented by people that want to supress you.

Windischer

01-25-2013, 05:36 PM

i like how people talk about science guiding society and stuff. you people are using the same phrases as czechoslovak communists used during socialist regime. its just that: phrases. next time i see you writing something unscientifical and irrational, maybe ill remind you :)

i think you know whats boomerang right? :D

p. s. humanism and traditional european ethics are christian :)

Twistedmind

01-25-2013, 05:37 PM

The religious always point out that their deity (or -ies) are not restricted to this world. If they do not have to confine themselves to realistic, logical ways of thinking, then their beliefs are unfalsifiable. If their beliefs are unfalsifiable, there is no point in giving the religious even the tiniest bit of credit. Religion should therefore simply be disregarded.
No it is not refutation of my words.
If you start from premise that God creted this world, you must addmit He is not restricted by categotries of this world. Basic rule of logic.

God creted world. Logic is category of this world. God is not restricted by logic.
Absolutley logical conclusion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllogism

I mean priest manipulate to make their will, you can't underestimate religion power.
In the past they told them that if they pay them they assured you that you'd go to heaven when you'd die. And what do you think of pedophile cases? In mexico there was a priest called Massiel who raped children and was proptected by Johannes Paulus II, he said that he didn't know anything about that. This is only a case there are more.

When someone has so much power can lead it to derail the "initial purpose" and that happened to the church. Remembered that all institutions can corrupt.
I still dont get your arguments. You cant blame religion for misdeads of religious people. Same as you cant blame atheism for transgressions of Atheists

Žołnir

01-25-2013, 05:40 PM

Discuss :)

There is nothing to discuss here either you believe or not. :p

larali

01-25-2013, 05:46 PM

There is no way any human can understand God if He exists. But I see "God" as an abstract, a spirit. You can't deny there is "sin" (things that hurt yourself and other people and undermine society). Avoiding sin brings you closer to God (goodness, happiness, righteousness etc) and helps you live your life to the fullest.

I doubt those hedonists that think they can sin and enjoy life are much happier than people who stick to the straight and narrow. In fact, I'm sure they are struggling with a few regrets. They can't possibly believe that their lifestyle is helping the human race progress in any way.

Žołnir

01-25-2013, 05:48 PM

fear of humanity from the unknown and most of all, death.
to come to an end in the future.

Hahaha really? Hillarous, rethink please. :D

Panopticon

01-25-2013, 05:56 PM

No it is not refutation of my words.
If you start from premise that God creted this world, you must addmit He is not restricted by categotries of this world. Basic rule of logic.

God creted world. Logic is category of this world. God is not restricted by logic.
Absolutley logical conclusion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllogism

It is not logical to assume that something works outside of natural law or is not part of our reality. It is like having a wrong answer to an equation, and then add to it parts that never were there before to make it right. Any deduction is based on premises; any deduction is only as true as its premises. The argument is valid, but the premises are weak as they are based on unfalsifiable assumptions. (All mammals are elephants; all men are mammals; therefore, all men are elephants. See what I did there?) The real point lies in that religious claims are unfalsifiable and should therefore not only be assumed to be wrong but should not even be given the slightest consideration.

Twistedmind

01-25-2013, 05:59 PM

The argument is valid, but the premises are not.
And that was my point. You may state it not proven God does not exist, but similary I could state it is not prove that He does not exust.

The real point lies in that religious claims are unfalsifiable and should therefore not only be assumed to be wrong but should not even be given the slightest consideration.
It is subjective opinion. In bottom line atheism is subjective choice.

Panopticon

01-25-2013, 06:07 PM

And that was my point. You may state it not proven God does not exist, but similary I could state it is not prove that He does not exust.

(Logic is more than syntax.)

The burden of proof is on those who make a positive, not those who make a negative.

It is subjective opinion. In bottom line atheism is subjective choice.

All opinions are subjective to differing degrees. That is not the issue, however. The issue is that theists make claims and atheists want proof. Atheism is a more sound approach than theism because it has less holes in it.

Twistedmind

01-25-2013, 06:09 PM

(Logic is more than syntax.)
Yep. But I was speaking about that concret example.

The burden of proof is on those who make a positive, not those who make a negative.
And religion is matter of believe, not of deduction.

All opinions are subjective to differing degrees. That is not the issue, however. The issue is that theists make claims and atheists want proof. Atheism is a more sound approach than theism because it has less holes in it.
It is again your personal opinion.

Anyway, I am affraid we went bit off topic.

Libertas

01-25-2013, 06:12 PM

if a God is exist why is going the war and economic crisis in the world? Why does he allow all that? :rolleyes: just interesting

We have Free Will,bud.

Nobody forces us to kill or steal or build where there is a risk of flooding, for example.

It's a bit lame blaming our malice or incompetence on an external Supreme Being.

Deimos

01-25-2013, 06:13 PM

Hahaha really? Hillarous, rethink please. :D

You are taking my words out of the context.
Go back and read again carefully.

Žołnir

01-25-2013, 06:39 PM

No man it isn't out of context. It's just your claim is hillarious but nvm. :)

Deimos

01-25-2013, 07:30 PM

No man it isn't out of context. It's just your claim is hillarious but nvm. :)

Could you please enlighten me, because I have a feeling we might have a misunderstanding here?

Salamanca

01-25-2013, 08:17 PM

Not polite to discuss religion. Somebody has a religion, somebody hasn't. That is their opinion.

Mans not hot

01-25-2013, 08:19 PM

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001380681/theres_probably_no_god_answer_3_xlarge.png

Bobby Six Killer

01-25-2013, 09:09 PM

According to the God of the old testament which indeed is in matter of fact, "fair". Resembles a lot of greek god "Zeuz" and sumerian god "Enlil". However in Judas Gosspel, i don't know if it's agnostic or not, says something like: We should not praise the god who created the Earth, but the one who created the Universe.

Barbarossa

01-25-2013, 10:21 PM

SkyBurn

01-25-2013, 11:53 PM

Richard Dawkins is a clown and we should not take him serriously. He try to discuss faith from view which don't take into account many of philosophical and theological arguments and points of view.
Firstly, he took science as absolute despite many things are still not known and let's take for example big bang theory. How this eliminate possibility of god? Still we are left with question who created material from which big bang come etc. And such questions are just too many.
Secondly, his critism of religious sistems show that man does not have a clue about philosophy or better to say, about any social science. He is an atheist borat :D.

Post Scriptum: If faith is a theological virtue, than if we would know that god exist we wouldn't need faith, since we would know for sure. In this case, religion would be senseless.

Just because science does not have all the answers, does not mean religion by default has them instead. The burden of proof lies on religion, and if Christianity is just as valid as Ancient Greek mythology, all religions are equally invalid. To believe in organised religion simply for lack of a better alternative is not faith. It is naivety.

I don't want to push my beliefs on others, but I don't think that the law should EVER be influenced on metaphorical rantings. Especially rantings which have as much truth to them as any unsubstantiated proposition I could make right now. And once church seeps into state, I have a problem. Which is why the validity of religion must be addressed.

Onur

01-25-2013, 11:53 PM

I don't believe in God and yet I have never murdered or raped anyone. it is beyond my character.

Is the fear of God all that is keeping Christians from doing that? :eek:
This is so true.

It`s about morals and self-respect, also respect to the other beings and to the whole world. It`s nothing about the existence of God or his punishment to us in hell or reward to us in heaven.

Btw, claiming that if there would be no God then everyone would commit crimes against each other, is in fact a confession of the invention of God concept by the humans. The very first people who created the concept of abrahamic religions probably thought the same and said that they need a set of rules, a supreme being to punish or reward humans in afterlife just to keep ordinary people inline and under their control.

Mistel

01-26-2013, 12:28 AM

It can actually be quite liberating, and make one appreciate this mortal life more fully :)

Hmmm I can't imagine it... I don't think I will ever be convinced :)

Vojnik

01-26-2013, 01:17 AM

I don't believe in God and yet I have never murdered or raped anyone. it is beyond my character.

Is the fear of God all that is keeping Christians from doing that? :eek:

It's scary to think that the only thing coming between a person with morals and a murderer is their character's.

The fear of God is a good fear which prevents people from committing criminal acts. What's wrong with that?

God gives every human free will to do what they want. You choose whether you live your life with God, or a life separated from God, it's up to you, but you might see consequences if you choose the second option.

I see alot of people blaming God for all the bad in the world by saying "if there is a God, why would he allow such bad things to occur in the world". Well the answer is, it's not God's fault, it's the fault of the individual who chooses to live there life separate from God. A murderer has decided to live his/her life separate from God by committing murder which is obviously a sin.

alb0zfinest

01-26-2013, 01:23 AM

Answer me this people. If there is no God, heaven and hell, is there any reason to uphold moral order in the world? is there any reason not to murder and rape someone, if at the end there is no God to judge you?

Morals are almost something that you are born with. How come you as a christian (i assume) choose to follow in the bible what seems right and leave out some of the bronze age mad like ideologies.

Guapo

01-26-2013, 01:27 AM

Atheists are just filthy closet commies and homos.

safinator

01-26-2013, 01:35 AM

Atheists are just filthy closet commies and homos.
What about Pagans?

Onur

01-26-2013, 01:41 AM

The fear of God is a good fear which prevents people from committing criminal acts. What's wrong with that?
The God and their religion also leads people to commit horrible crimes and feel no shame about it but enjoy it instead by thinking like they are serving to their religion/God.

Most of the mass massacres in the world has been committed in the name of religions. 100s of millions people has been murdered in the name of God throughout history. The missionary religions are so dangerous that it can destroy people`s moral values and make them enjoy killing people because their religion tells them that it`s good to murder people in the name of their God.

Guapo

01-26-2013, 02:00 AM

What about Pagans?

What about them? they're extinct, you commie homo.

Lemon Kush

01-26-2013, 03:03 AM

Answer me this people. If there is no God, heaven and hell, is there any reason to uphold moral order in the world? is there any reason not to murder and rape someone, if at the end there is no God to judge you?

Well there is such thing called LAWS in our modern society that would punish someone to a varying degree if he/she were to commit murder, rape, etc....
I think that's the main reason why people don't commit crimes and try to follow their own moral law as well the Legislative one. Not because they think God is watching or judging them. In today's world most people aren't deeply religious anyway. They will say they are Catholic or Protestant or whatever but won't follow the religion very devoutly, at most maybe go to church every Sunday to show they are somewhat religious. In these times we are more inclining towards science and innovation and other discoveries than to religion. People are mostly spiritual to be honest.

Loki

01-26-2013, 05:30 AM

What about them? they're extinct, you commie homo.

I'm not a homo but I could be a commie.

Aredhel

01-26-2013, 05:40 AM

Atheists are just filthy closet commies and homos.

I'm atheist and I'm proud to be a commie :D

SkyBurn

01-26-2013, 05:46 AM

FpRbtq2e0S0

alb0zfinest

01-26-2013, 07:23 PM

FpRbtq2e0S0

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::l augh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::lol00002::lol000 02::lol00002:
dude this seriously made my day.

Deimos

01-26-2013, 07:37 PM

Atheists are just filthy closet commies and homos.

The bigot strikes again! :picard2:

Huizhong

01-26-2013, 09:07 PM

I think you guys are wrong. There are a lot of good parts to religion.

Energia

01-26-2013, 10:53 PM

Yes, it's a possibility, and a very reasonable one, but as an agnostic I don't care. If God exists, good, if it doesn't, good too.
Between God and Good there's one extra O.
Why assuming God is good?couldn't rather be a badass?

Hoca

01-26-2013, 10:58 PM

God is a DJ

Let's leave it at that

alb0zfinest

01-27-2013, 02:43 AM

I think you guys are wrong. There are a lot of good parts to religion.

I don't think that anyone here can deny there are some good aspects of religion. But what we are talking about here is if there is a god or not. It's just like people who say the bible, kuran, Torah give me morals which i think is great but that's not proving the existence of god.
In fact for every little good that religion does.....it creates something 4 times worse.
Anyways for all the atheists or agnostics in this forum i advise you to see Bill Mahers Religulous documentary. Its quite funny
One scene from it :D
IjR7AWSmI6o

Tome_Reader

01-27-2013, 07:31 AM

Discuss :)

Virtually all who say that there is no God do not actually understand what "God" means. Is there an invisible man dwelling in the clouds? No. Is there an ultimate power of light, justice and truth that is the foundation of reality to which all that is answers? Yes.

The various depictions of "God" are just allegories seeking to teach about this. Taking these allegories literally (whether by believers or atheists) is missing the whole point, but the ultimate holy power behind all that is certainly exists (and we should not mistake the allegory of the message for a lack of reality of that which they speak of).

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 07:36 AM

Virtually all who say that there is no God do not actually understand what "God" means. Is there an invisible man dwelling in the clouds? No. Is there an ultimate power of light, justice and truth that is the foundation of reality to which all that is answers? Yes.

The various depictions of "God" are just allegories seeking to teach about this. Taking these allegories literally (whether by believers or atheists) is missing the whole point, but the ultimate holy power behind all that is certainly exists (and we should not mistake the allegory of the message for a lack of reality of that which they speak of).

First off, many adults actually believe in the so called invisible man in the clouds.

But aside from that, taking God as a metaphorical construct could be reduced to saying that "God is nature" like Spinoza did, or furthermore, that "God is simply human morality'.

The fact is, without believing in a sentient God, absolute morality cannot be inferred. So if we go down your track, and say that God is just "an ultimate power of light, justice and truth", the absolute ethics of Abrahamic religions are not set in stone, and are basically just humanism.

Alternatively, if he is a sentient being, who actively had a role in creation and humanity, then give me a shred of evidence which is any more compelling than that of the Ancient Greeks or Norsemen.

Tome_Reader

01-27-2013, 07:49 AM

First off, many adults actually believe in the so called invisible man in the clouds.

Some do, yes, and that is as foolish a stance as Atheism.

The fact is, without believing in a sentient God, absolute morality cannot be inferred.

Not so. Absolute ethics can be infered from an ultimate holy (from the Old English Hal, meaning 'whole') authority/foundational power. But that is a wider and more complex issue that I'm not going to go into here at the moment.

Alternatively, if he is a sentient being, who actively had a role in creation and humanity, then give me a shred of evidence which is any more compelling than that of the Ancient Greeks or Norsemen.

God is not a cultural phenomenon. "Gods" are, being the allegorical representation of the ultimate Holy force behind what is. So don't presume that when I say "God" I am speaking of something Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu or whatever.

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 08:08 AM

Some do, yes, and that is as foolish a stance as Atheism.

Not so. Absolute ethics can be infered from an ultimate holy (from the Old English Hal, meaning 'whole') authority/foundational power. But that is a wider and more complex issue that I'm not going to go into here at the moment.

God is not a cultural phenomenon. "Gods" are, being the allegorical representation of the ultimate Holy force behind what is. So don't presume that when I say "God" I am speaking of something Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu or whatever.

Atheism is in no way a foolish stance. If, as you say, "Gods" are the allegorical force which represent a holy force, that means that we cannot know the correct way to live our lives, given that each religion has a different ethical stance. Therefore, Atheism is the acknowledgement that absolute ethics change from religion to religion, so we must create our own ethical code.

Religious morals are often at times irrelevant to us. Humanistic ones will not cease to apply. Atheism swaps in "absolutes" for "applicability". Atheism is a stance that our way of life should be dictated by practicality, not fairytales.

Loki

01-27-2013, 08:12 AM

Is there an ultimate power of light, justice and truth that is the foundation of reality to which all that is answers? Yes.

How do you know?

Tome_Reader

01-27-2013, 08:27 AM

If, as you say, "Gods" are the allegorical force which represent a holy force, that means that we cannot know the correct way to live our lives, given that each religion has a different ethical stance.

It means nothing of the sort, but rather the Holy gives an absolute morality (that is in-keeping with its nature) which applies regardless of culture.

Is there an ultimate power of light, justice and truth that is the foundation of reality to which all that is answers? Yes. How do you know?

Reason.

Through reason we can recognise the Holy power that is the foundation of Real and which the purpose of religion is to allegorise (with varying degrees of success....often making the mistake of taking allegory literally :picard1:).

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 08:31 AM

It means nothing of the sort, but rather the Holy gives an absolute morality (that is in-keeping with its nature) which applies regardless of culture.

Through reason we can recognise the Holy power that is the foundation of Real and which the purpose of religion is to allegorise (with varying degrees of success....often making the mistake of taking allegory literally :picard1:).

Now I'm confused.

If the Holy gives an absolute morality, please tell me which morality that is? How do we know what it is? Which religion, if any, teach it?

How does reason allow us to recognise holy power? Please explain your statements, because so far, all you're saying is that there is a force which gives us absolute morality that we must follow.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 08:31 AM

Discuss :)

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/74533_429203560483195_570495044_n.jpg

And now ...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Ariane_Sherine_and_Richard_Dawkins_at_the_Atheist_ Bus_Campaign_launch.jpg/800px-Ariane_Sherine_and_Richard_Dawkins_at_the_Atheist_ Bus_Campaign_launch.jpg

:thumb001:

:thumb001: agree

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 08:37 AM

Even if God don't exist I believe we need religions to keep our morals controlled.

I do believe that help people out, at least some people aren't as corrupt today because of the influence religion and God.

Lobotomist

01-27-2013, 08:39 AM

That's just absurd.
Some people interpret religions as ways of living - including me. You don't have to fundamentally believe all it says. It can also be a part of culture. If you remove religion, you remove ALOT of culture.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 08:40 AM

I do believe that without religion help people out, at least some people aren't as corrupt today because of the influence religion and God.

ever heard of the vatican?

That's just absurd.
Some people interpret religions as ways of living - including me. You don't have to fundamentally believe all it says. It can also be a part of culture. If you remove religion, you remove ALOT of culture.

preach it, brother!

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 08:42 AM

Even if God don't exist I believe we need religions to keep our morals controlled.

I do believe that without religion help people out, at least some people aren't as corrupt today because of religion.

Be very thankful I couldn't be bothered ranting.

Let me summarise:

Atheists are statistically just as generous
The non-religious do their altruistic deeds out of empathy, not fear
Atheists are not necessarily nihilists, so adhere to the law
Humanism poses as an improved version of morality

Religions do not keep morals controlled. If anything, they corrupt them.

A functional society creates its own morals. It does not need an ancient book to dictate them, for people have lived together for thousands upon thousands of years.

Lobotomist

01-27-2013, 08:42 AM

About that bus sign, i think that's disgusting. Imagine the kids, who've taught by their parents, that Jesus Christ is the savior etc. What will the kids now think? My parents lied to me? Honestly, now they're just spitting on them and their parents.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 08:43 AM

Insuperable

01-27-2013, 08:51 AM

Why would someone stop worrying (and enjoying life) only because there is no God?

Lobotomist

01-27-2013, 08:52 AM

those parent do lie, with all due respect but they don't know if the bible is true or not.

Christianity is a good moral factor for the kids.
Don't steal, kill etc. Things that might cross Atheists.

:joke0001: @ last part

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 08:54 AM

Be very thankful I couldn't be bothered ranting.

Let me summarise:

Atheists are statistically just as generous
The non-religious do their altruistic deeds out of empathy, not fear
Atheists are not necessarily nihilists, so adhere to the law
Humanism poses as an improved version of morality

Religions do not keep morals controlled. If anything, they corrupt them.

A functional society creates its own morals. It does not need an ancient book to dictate them, for people have lived together for thousands upon thousands of years.

You choose not to believe in religion because there are things you want to do but can't and that obstacle is religion.

A society that don't believe there is a purpose to life will eventually corrupt themselves. Almost every burglar, thieves, murderers, are people who are atheist or people who lost their faith in religion.

True that many Atheist may be generous but it's also them that are rotten to the core. For example the only women who do animal porn today are Atheist, no christian women would ever do anything so low class.

What do Atheist believe in? they believe there is no life after death. They think people just die and disappear even though there are many supernatural cases and experience of ghost and spirits.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 08:57 AM

Christianity is a good moral factor for the kids.
Don't steal, kill etc. Things that might cross Atheists.

:joke0001: @ last part

what about these?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Honour thy father and thy mother

Thou shalt not commit adultery

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Thou shalt not covet

how are any of these moral? if anything, these commandments are encouraging dogmatic thinking not making the kid moral

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 09:01 AM

You choose not to believe in religion because there are things you want to do but can't and obstacle is religion.

proof

A society that don't believe there is a purpose to life will eventually corrupt themselves. Almost every burglar, thieves, murderers, are people who are atheist or people who lost their faith in religion.

who said atheist or agnostics don't believe there is a purpose to life, after all most of them are humanists

True that many Atheist may be generous but it's also them that are rotten to the core. For example the only women who do animal porn today are Atheist, no christian women would ever do anything so low class.

proof

What do Atheist believe in?

I can only speak for myself but i believe my purpose in life is to help others, to make this world a better place for future generations

What do Atheist believe in? they believe there is no life after death. They think people just die and disappear even though there are many supernatural cases and experience of ghost and spirits.
proof(pier-reviewed of course)

Lemon Kush

01-27-2013, 09:04 AM

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 09:06 AM

Lobotomist

01-27-2013, 09:06 AM

what about these?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Honour thy father and thy mother

Thou shalt not commit adultery

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Thou shalt not covet

how are any of these moral? if anything, these commandments are encouraging dogmatic thinking not making the kid moral

Old testamente, much?
And i'm also pretty sure that decent parents wouldn't give their kids these commandments, except ultra-Christian Westboro Baptist fags.
I actually don't know one single parent in my country who doesn't introduce Christianity for their children. My country is not even categorized Christian anymore, even tho we've got a Christian symbol on our flag.
How would you raise your child without religion? Tell me. :)

There's nothing wrong with hounouring one's own father and mother, btw.

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 09:08 AM

There could be some truth to religion keeping potentially evil in check. Some of the most ruthless dictators in history were atheists with no morals or regard for human life. Joseph Stalin is a good example. It's not good to be an extreme on either side though.

First off, if you suggest Hitler, I'd like to say that he was not an atheist, and also, the Nazis had many religious undertones to their movement.

Also, what made Stalin evil was not his atheism. That was not the defining feature of his rationale. In fact, that was probably the best part of his ideology.

Saying that atheists are evil because Stalin was evil is like saying that people with moustaches are evil because Stalin had a moustache.

Also, atheists tend to be humanists, as Migla said, and are more often than not quite intelligent people (they have the highest average IQ of any ideological group (yes, I know IQ is flimsy)).

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 09:09 AM

Old testamente, much?
And i'm also pretty sure that decent parents wouldn't give their kids these commandments, except ultra-Christian Westboro Baptist fags.
I actually don't know one single parent in my country who doesn't introduce Christianity for their children. My country is not even categorized Christian anymore, even tho we've got a Christian symbol on our flag.
How would you raise your child without religion? Tell me. :)

I would tell them about all the major religions of this planet. not just christianity

There's nothing wrong with hounouring one's own father and mother, btw.

tell that to children who were abused by their parents

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 09:10 AM

Old testamente, much?
And i'm also pretty sure that decent parents wouldn't give their kids these commandments, except ultra-Christian Westboro Baptist fags.
I actually don't know one single parent in my country who doesn't introduce Christianity for their children. My country is not even categorized Christian anymore, even tho we've got a Christian symbol on our flag.
How would you raise your child without religion? Tell me. :)

There's nothing wrong with hounouring one's own father and mother, btw.

I would raise them with Secular Humanism. The religious do not have a monopoly on morality.

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 09:11 AM

who said atheist or agnostics don't believe there is a purpose to life, after all most of them are humanists

They don't believe there is a after life nor do they believe there is a reward for good deeds in after life.

What is the point of living in this world? doing good to others an than saying goodbye to our existence for eternity?

proof

Do you really need proof for this?

Obviously women who does animal porn are doing for money have no religion or faith, if they did follow a religion they would at least had some morals because no religion would ever approve of such bestiality.

I can only speak for myself but i believe my purpose in life is to help others, to make this world a better place for future generations

Action speak louder than the words.

You believe your purpose is to help others yet you do not believe that there is a reward for good deeds in after life???

I can only say you will eventually change in the end.

Insuperable

01-27-2013, 09:11 AM

Stalin was an Atheist and Hitler was a catholic, but their actions were not motivated by their belief in the supernatural or lack their of

Hitler was Catholic as much as Breivik was Christian fundamentalist. Breivik is often labeled as a Christian Crusader, but in his testament of 1000 pages he wrote explicitly that he does not believe in what Christianity preaches, but is culturally Christian, something what nobody said on TV except that he is Christian.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 09:18 AM

Hitler was Catholic as much as Breivik was Christian fundamentalist. Breivik is often labeled as a Christian Crusader, but in his testament of 1000 pages he wrote explicitly that he does not believe in what Christianity preaches, but is culturally Christian, something what nobody said on TV except that he is Christian.
read Mein Kampf

They don't believe there is a after life nor do they believe there is a reward for good deeds in after life.

What is the point of living in this world? doing good to others an than saying goodbye to our existence for eternity?

how about doing good because if feels good, I don't need a promise of an afterlife

Do you really need proof for this?

Obviously women who does animal porn are doing for money have no religion or faith, if they did follow a religion they would at least had some morals because no religion would ever approve of such bestiality.

yep, I do need proof for this.

ever heard of the vatican and it Pedobears?
I know quite a few religious girls who do the most kinky shit you could think of .As an atheist I can tell you that I would never do animal porn(or porn in general)

Action speak louder than the words.

You believe your purpose is to help others yet you do not believe that there is a reward for good deeds in after life???

I can only say you will eventually change in the end.

doubt it

Lemon Kush

01-27-2013, 09:22 AM

First off, if you suggest Hitler, I'd like to say that he was not an atheist, and also, the Nazis had many religious undertones to their movement.

Also, what made Stalin evil was not his atheism. That was not the defining feature of his rationale. In fact, that was probably the best part of his ideology.

Saying that atheists are evil because Stalin was evil is like saying that people with moustaches are evil because Stalin had a moustache.

Also, atheists tend to be humanists, as Migla said, and are more often than not quite intelligent people (they have the highest average IQ of any ideological group (yes, I know IQ is flimsy)).

Well he followed an evil Communist ideology and Communism prohibited religion. Communism left many countries and their people poor and hopeless. Pol Pot is another famous atheist Communist dictator. So the two are intertwined in a way.

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 09:24 AM

My purpose in life is to optimise happiness for everybody.

As some on this forum may tell you, I'm a big fan of Utilitarianism: a theory in normative ethics holding that the proper course of action is the one that maximises happiness and reduces suffering.

In practice, this theory more or less becomes Humanism. Over time, the Judeo-Christian morals which the ancients held have slowly morphed into an ethical system which approaches these principles. However, we are not quite there, and have still not refined our legal and moral systems to reflect purer Humanism.

Organised religion is the force which tends to hold back the Utilitarian good, in the name of "absolute truths" created by men irrelevant to our time. I, as an atheist, can have a code of morals. I don't need the promise of the afterlife. I just need the promise of a good current life, satisfied by my human predisposition for empathy.

I am not purposeless because I don't have a god. Quite the opposite. My purpose is being happy, while ensuring that others are happy too.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 09:25 AM

Well he followed an evil Communist ideology and Communism prohibited religion. Communism left many countries and their people poor and hopeless. Pol Pot is another famous atheist Communist dictator. So the two are intertwined in a way.

Ayan Rand was an atheist are you calling her a commie? :D

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 09:26 AM

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 09:27 AM

how about doing good because if feels good, I don't need a promise of an afterlife

Because it makes you feel good for how long?
With your way of thinking your compassion would only last temporally.

yep, I do need proof for this.

Right.... do you really think some pornstars are going to list if their atheist or christian?

ever heard of the vatican and it Pedobears?
I know quite a few religious girls who do the most kinky shit you could think of .As an atheist I can tell you that I would never do animal porn(or porn in general)

Those are people who lost their faith in religion. Those who follow the words of religion would never do that. The bible teaches no person should ever harm a children.

doubt it

Just like I doubt you.

Simply saying you want to help others does not mean you will keep this up forever and just because you did good things to others does justify your other actions.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 09:28 AM

this summarises my view of religion quite well

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/551630_464024120301789_1411476887_n.jpg

Insuperable

01-27-2013, 09:29 AM

[QUOTE=Migla;1326827]read Mein Kampf

Now go and read Hitler's private quotes about Christianity recorded by his close companions and collegues written in a book.
Mein Kampf was 50% propaganda.

Lobotomist

01-27-2013, 09:31 AM

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 09:31 AM

Because it makes you feel good for how long?
With your way of thinking your compassion would only last temporally.

:picard1:

Right.... do you really think some pornstars are going to list if their atheist or christian?

so you're basically pulling this out of your ass, aren't you?

Those are people who lost their faith in religion. Those who follow the words of religion would never do that. The bible teaches no person should ever harm a children.

proof, quite the contrary it gives you instructions

Just like I doubt you.

Simply saying you want to help others does not mean you will keep this up forever and just because you did good things to others does justify your other actions.

:picard1::picard2::picard1:

my actions are not meant to justify anything

read Mein Kampf

Now go and read Hitler's private quotes about Christianity recorded by his close companions and collegues written in a book.
Mein Kampf was 50% propaganda.

spin it however you want he still believed in god

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 09:33 AM

:picard1:

so you're basically pulling this out of your ass, aren't you?

proof, quite the contrary it gives you instructions

:picard1::picard2::picard1:

my actions are not meant to justify anything

:thumb001:

Lemon Kush

01-27-2013, 09:34 AM

Ayan Rand was an atheist are you calling her a commie? :D

Nice argument. Anyway Communists banned religion because they wanted power over their people, not religion.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 09:35 AM

Nice argument. Anyway Communists banned religion because they wanted power over their people, not religion.

mostly agree, they wanted to replace religion

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 09:37 AM

Nice argument. Anyway Communists banned religion because they wanted power over their people, not religion.

Which means that their motives weren't ones of parading reason and scientific thought, but rather, of power.

Which means that their atheism was irrelevant, it was just an anti-religious mechanism to assist their regime

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 09:46 AM

so you're basically pulling this out of your ass, aren't you?

Like seriously, what kind of women who would claim to follow a religion and do animal porn at same time?

Only a women who has no morals and does it for money would do animal porn. But even atheis women who don't commit such as acts for money is because first it's disgusting and second they fear society would look down at such people, not because it has anything to do with God that's how the mentality of atheist are.

proof, quite the contrary it gives you instructions

You don't need proof for you do not believe in any religion to begin with. The Bible teaches us that we are not to harm or wrong our neighbor, this of course includes children. Any person who read the bible will know that, if you want proof go read the bible instead of just making excuses because of what some Vaticans did.

Those pedobear Vaticans are people who are not following the word of God or the instructions from the bible. They are people who went back to being atheist or were tempted to do evil.

:picard1::picard2::picard13

my actions are not meant to justify anything

You haven't prove to anyone that you will help many people, it's easy for anyone to say, I can easily say I will millions of people myself.

BTW...... I'm not someone who believes in God or religion but I know just how many of you atheists are, you wish to do something that are morally wrong by standards to the bible.

You like to to make excuses why God don't help poor people or why doesn't help people from poverty..... but if he did that than what is the purpose of learning in this world?

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 09:55 AM

Like seriously, what kind of women who would claim to follow a religion and do animal porn at same time?

Only a women who has no morals would do animal porn and atheist women who don't commit such as acts for money is because first it's disgusting and second is because of society would look down at such people.

:picard1:

I don't see how a religious person is morally superior to an atheist, If anything the most horrible people I know are religious. If you don't have proof to support your claims stop saying it

I know a few super duper Christians who have disowned their children for no good reason, that is hardly moral

You don't need proof for you do not believe in any religion to begin with. The Bible teaches us that we are not to harm or wrong our neighbor, this of course includes children. Any person who read the bible will know that, if you want proof go read the bible instead of just making excuses because of what some Vaticans did.

the bible also gives to instructions on how to beat or even kill children if they disobey you, it gives you instructions on how to do abortions, kill witches an so on. that's hardly moral

You haven't prove to anyone that you will help many people, it's easy for anyone to say, I can easily say I will millions of people myself.

Im not planing to change the world, that is beyond my means, I mean little thing like helping people who ask me for help

BTW...... I'm not someone who believes in God or religion but I know just how many of you atheists are, you wish to do something that are morally wrong by standards to the bible.

You like to to make excuses why God don't help poor people or why doesn't help people from poverty..... but if he did that than what is the purpose of learning in this world?

In my opinion the bible is immoral, sue me

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 10:02 AM

Like seriously, what kind of women who would claim to follow a religion and do animal porn at same time?

Only a women who has no morals and does it for money would do animal porn. But even atheis women who don't commit such as acts for money is because first it's disgusting and second they fear society would look down at such people, not because it has anything to do with God that's how the mentality of atheist are.

Try having so little money that you need to sell your body for quick cash, and then be the judge. Put yourselves in the shoes of one of these women, because they probably don't enjoy animal porn.

You don't need proof for you do not believe in any religion to begin with. The Bible teaches us that we are not to harm or wrong our neighbor, this of course includes children. Any person who read the bible will know that, if you want proof go read the bible instead of just making excuses because of what some Vaticans did.

The super simply luvvy duvvy bible messages are basic humanistic principles. However, if you read the bible enough, you'll see the warping of this ideology.

BTW...... I'm not someone who believes in God or religion but I know just how many of you atheists are, you wish to do something that are morally wrong by standards to the bible.

If you don't believe in God or religion, then you are an atheist. Are you aware of that?

You like to to make excuses why God don't help poor people or why doesn't help people from poverty..... but if he did that than what is the purpose of learning in this world?

There is NO INHERENT PURPOSE TO THIS WORLD. We make our own purpose, and our purpose is sustainable happiness.

Tyfani

01-27-2013, 10:04 AM

I don't believe in God is like people use to speak about...
I quote (and i don't remember from where :p ) "The Bible didn't came with FAX from heaven", and I think this goes for all religions...

Do I believe in God that will send me to boiling oil if I eat meat on Friday or If I make out with my boyfriend? No
But I DO believe in a supreme power that may change my life according to what I offer to the world, good things or bad ones.

Our world is a complicate miracle... If one element was different, or something in the DNA of the first organisms... Then I wouldn't be here writting this at the momment...
It's difficult for me to believe that we were just lucky enough to pick the right card out of billions and billions...

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 10:06 AM

I don't see how a religious person is morally superior to an atheist, If anything the most horrible people I know are religious. If you don't have proof to support your claims stop saying it

Horrible in what way?

You want me to show you proof that those women who does animal porn are all Atheist..... isn't that such a stupid request?

the bible also gives to instructions on how to beat or even kill children if they disobey you, it gives you instructions on how to do abortions, kill witches an so on. that's hardly moral

Its evil and its a terrible sin. however jesus teaches us to love everyone and let god preform his own judgement.

1. The bible teaches children must respect their parents, if these children can go grow up disrespecting their parents than they will grow up disrespecting any human life.

2. Christianity does not support abortion, that is a lie.

3. Witches are responsible for many temptation and evil deeds

I'm not planing to change the world, that is beyond my means, I mean little thing like helping people who ask me for help

Christianity have donated billions to poverty to this world.

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 10:07 AM

Our world is a complicate miracle... If one element was different, or something in the DNA of the first organisms... Then I wouldn't be here writting this at the momment...
It's difficult for me to believe that we were just lucky enough to pick the right card out of billions and billions...

wupToqz1e2g

Believe it. Because the odds are there.

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 10:17 AM

Try having so little money that you need to sell your body for quick cash, and then be the judge. Put yourselves in the shoes of one of these women, because they probably don't enjoy animal porn.

Yeah, I've seen women who were in poverty and wouldn't degrade themselves like that because they have dignity and pride and wouldn't sell themselves like this no matter what.

The super simply luvvy duvvy bible messages are basic humanistic principles. However, if you read the bible enough, you'll see the warping of this ideology.

They are good for humanity, it keeps societies morals controlled.

If you don't believe in God or religion, then you are an atheist. Are you aware of that?

I'm fully aware of that but that does not mean I'll ignore the fact that many people who criticize religions are people who wants to continue doing their morally wrong things.

SUCH PEOPLE such as Atheist who wants to continue doing what is wrong but who wants to escape punishment at the same time by saying things like God don't exist and that even if he did exist God cannot pass judgement to me because he had not helped people with economic crisis or help people with injuries.

There is NO INHERENT PURPOSE TO THIS WORLD. We make our own purpose, and our purpose is sustainable happiness.

Happiness is what religion is trying to teach us. Live a meaningful moral and good life, respect and forgive others.

Not the kind of happiness that corrupts your own soul. Happiness within in the heart not within the money, power or luxury ect.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 10:28 AM

You want me to show you proof that those women who does animal porn are all Atheist..... isn't that such a stupid request?

its you who keeps making such ridiculous claims not me

Its evil and its a terrible sin. however jesus teaches us to love everyone and let god preform his own judgement.

1. The bible teaches children must respect their parents, if these children can go grow up disrespecting their parents than they will grow up disrespecting any human life.

tell that to children who were abused by their parents

2. Christianity does not support abortion, that is a lie.

the bible sure does

3. Witches are responsible for many temptation and evil deeds

grow up man, there's no such things as witches, those women killed were innocent

Christianity have donated billions to poverty to this world.

It is also responsible for countless deaths due to war and religious doctrine( for example their stance on condoms has caused millions of deaths in Africa)

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 10:39 AM

its you you keeps making such ridiculous claims not me

What's ridiculous is you're asking me to prove that those women are Atheist, how the hell am I suppose to prove that?

Besides if you had any commonsense than you would agree that they are women who are obviously atheist or women don't follow the path of any religion.

tell that to children who were abused be their parents

Than those parents were wrong it doesn't others were wrong. For your info even children can be the greatest evil one day.... all the evil people who committed unforgivable crimes today started out as children.

Hitler as a baby looked like a angel but as he grew up.... he became one of the worlds most unforgiving criminals in history. If he was killed when he was a kid than about 50 million people in Europe wouldn't have died.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/images/as_baby/Hitler_as_baby.jpg

grow up man, there's no such things as witches, those women killed were innocent

Some innocent women were killed and some were not.

Those people who killed innocent women who were though to be witches will be condemned.

It has also responsible for countless deaths due to war and religious doctrine( for example their stance on condoms has caused millions of deaths in Africa)

Those people were not following the words bible, they were only using the bible to abuse their power.

Just because some follows a religion does not mean they will keep the words of God in their hearts.

The true words of bible is love and forgiveness.

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 10:43 AM

The true words of bible is love and forgiveness.

The true words of secular humanism is love and forgiveness.

It may be the same for the bible, but that message is buried deep within its outdated customs and morals.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 10:47 AM

What's ridiculous is you're asking me to prove that those women are Atheist, how the hell am I suppose to prove that?

If you can't prove it, don't say it

Than those parents were wrong it doesn't others were wrong. For your info even children can be the greatest evil one day.... all the evil people who committed unforgivable crimes today started out as children.

My point is that a parents are different, this is why you should not generalise

Hitler as a baby looked like a angel but as he grew up.... he became one of the worlds most unforgiving criminals in history. If he was killed when he was a kid than about 50 million people in Europe wouldn't have died.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/images/as_baby/Hitler_as_baby.jpg

how exactly is this helping your case? :rolleyes:
More importantly what does this have to do with religion

Some innocent women were killed and some were not.

immoral

Those people who killed innocent women who were though to be witches will be condemned.

Their actions were justified by the church, you don't get to define who is a Christian and who isn't

Those people were not following the words bible, they were only using the bible to abuse their power.

read the bible, the justification for their actions is there

The true words of bible is love and forgiveness.

read the Bloody fucking bible, It obvious you haven't done so

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 10:49 AM

If you can't prove it, don't say it

In fact, let that apply to religious belief in general :p

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 11:02 AM

If you can't prove it, don't say it

I don't even know the freaking name of those pornstars so how the freaking hell am I suppose to know their background especially religious background? Their just women sucking animal penises like dogs, moneys, pigs, cows, cats, horses ect

You're asking the almost impossible, it's almost as stupid as saying did this gay guy had sex with 60 to 70 men when only he himself would know.

My point is that a parents are different, this is why you should not generalise

As are children, the bible does not condone on adults harming children either only those who are disrespectful ( and such people will grow up as very evil one day)

Their actions were justified by the church, you don't get to define who is a Christian and who isn't

A true christian is one that follows the words of Jesus which is to love.

read the bible, the justification for their actions is there

It is not Jesus justification but the person who interpret the bible and the actions and even that is no necessarily wrong either.

Historically there were women who used the devil, curses and other satanic rituals for their deeds. Even sacrificing pure and innocent children.

read the Bloody fucking bible, It obvious you haven't done so

The only thing you have read from the bible are cherry picking the verses that are negative to back up your criticism against what most of the bible teaches, what about good verses like " love one another " ?

You're right I didn't read the bible so much because I'm not Christian but I did read some of it before and most of it teaches love.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 11:15 AM

I don't even know the freaking name of those pornstars so how the freaking hell am I suppose to know their background especially religious background? Their just women sucking animal penises like dogs, moneys, pigs, cows, cats, horses ect

You're asking the almost impossible, it's almost as stupid as saying did this gay guy had sex with 60 to 70 men when only he himself would know.

again, If you can't prove it, don't say it

As are children, the bible does not condone on adults harming children either only those who are disrespectful ( and such people will grow up as very evil one day)

yes, and according to the bible, death is an appropriate punishment, the epiphany of moral behavior

A true christian is one that follows the words of Jesus which is to love one another.

and ignoring all the other stuff Jesus said, or didn't say, yeah right
you may not like it but the bible is a pretty big deal in Christianity, after all the bible is the word of god

It is not Jesus justification but the person who interpret the bible and the actions and even that is no necessarily wrong either.

:picard1::picard1::picard1::picard1:

I DISAGREE
most religious people have a different interpretation of that book. One interpretation is not more valid that another

Historically there were women who used the devil, curses and other satanic rituals for their deeds. Even sacrificing pure and innocent children.

yes and torturing them is a great way of finding out if they actually did it.:rolleyes:
you're just digging yourself into a big hole with arguments like that

The only thing you have read from the bible are cherry picking the verses that are negative to back up your criticism against what most of the bible teaches, what about good verses like " love one another " ?

:picard1::picard2::picard1::picard2:

I'm familiar with all the hippie crap Jesus said, but that does not mean all the horrible teachings in the bible are justified because of it

You're right I didn't read the bible so much because I'm not Christian but I did read some of it before and most of it teaches love.

wrong, most of its is pure hate and/or nonsense

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 11:32 AM

again, If you can't prove it, don't say it

Your comeback is always the same. You expect people to do the impossible this shows just how fragile your argument is.

Those who follow the words of God in their hearts will never do it because it's the rules and the body is sacred and should be respected and never sink to such level, what more evidence do you need?

yes, and according to the bible, death is an appropriate punishment, the epiphany of moral behavior

You know what Jesus said just when a women was about to be stoned to death.

Jesus said this " whoever one of you had committed no sin, may cast the first stone at her " and in the end all of them left.

and ignoring all the other stuff Jesus said, or didn't say, yeah right
you may not like it but the bible is a pretty big deal in Christianity, after all the bible is the word of god :picard1::picard1::picard1::picard1:

Bible contains both the word of God and the word of people who misinterpreted God meanings.

I DISAGREE
most religious people have a different interpretation of that book. One interpretation is not more valid that another

Look at only the side that teaches the good and do not let the bad side influence you.

yes and torturing them is a great way of finding out if they actually did it.:rolleyes:

you're just digging yourself into a big hole with arguments like that
:picard1::picard2::picard1::picard2:

No... the only you're revealing to me is how desperate you are to prove that religion is wrong because that way it would give you justification for your own actions even if they were a little immoral.

And the fact that you keep showing so much icons reveals your frustration to my point. Your only point is criticism and choose to believe only in the bad side of the bible but you do not cherish the good side of the bible.

Honestly you do not need to keep posting so many face-palms to show your own frustration.

I'm familiar with all the hippie crap Jesus said, but that does not mean all the horrible teachings in the bible are justified because of it

That's bull, if you are familiar with what Jesus said you would know he never condemned killing.

wrong, most of its is pure hate and/or nonsense

This is your own interpretation of the bible and you enjoy making excuses to hate the bible, to defy the existence of God and there is no such thing as hell.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 11:49 AM

Your comeback is always the same. You expect people to do the impossible this shows just how fragile your argument is.

quite the contrary, you made a point that is impossible to verify, not me

Those who follow the words of God in their hearts will never do it because it's the rules and the body is sacred and should be respected and never sink to such level, what more evidence do you need?

actual evidence, not brain-farts

You know what Jesus said just when a women was about to be stoned to death.

Jesus said this " whoever one of you had committed no sin, may cast the first stone at her " and in the end all of them left.
.

good for him.

Bible contains both the word of God and the word of people who misinterpreted God meanings.
so how am I supposed to know which is which?

Look at only the side that teaches the good and do not let the bad side influence you.

why should I follow a text that has bad teaching to begin with?

No... the only you're revealing to me is how desperate you are to prove that religion is wrong because that way it would give you justification for your own actions even if they were a little immoral.

this summarises my view of religion quite well

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/551630_464024120301789_1411476887_n.jpg

That's bull, if you are familiar with what Jesus said you would know he never condemned killing.

soooo, does that make Moses and co. irrelevant?

This is your own interpretation of the bible

Its not my interpretation, It what the bible literally says

and you enjoy making excuses to hate the bible,
I don't hate the bible, I just don't care for it

to defy the existence of God
The existence of god first needs to be proven for me to defy it

and there is no such thing as hell.

agree, there really isn't

finþaų

01-27-2013, 11:51 AM

Religiosity and atheism are plebeian outlooks both of them. :D

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 11:52 AM

Religiosity and atheism are plebeian outlooks both of them. :D

:D

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 11:53 AM

Religiosity and atheism are plebeian outlooks both of them. :D

You're just jealous of my Atlantean heritage.

Philo

01-27-2013, 11:57 AM

If fear from god it is the only thing that keeps the humanity from doing wrong at this point of civilization then I'd say we are merely some wretched, cowardly and pitiful beings.
Very true.
Sometimes a belief in god actually leads people to do bad things, like beat their wives in Afghanistan. Actually most of the time it's like that.

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 12:00 PM

Believe what you want to believe just don't make excuses or make justification for your own immoral and corruption.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 12:02 PM

Yes again..... making excuses for your own justification.

you're projecting

Believe what you want to believe just don't make excuses for your own immoral and corruption.

how exactly am I corrupt? lol, you don't know anything about me

more importantly you're the one who was trying to justify witch-hunting in the middle ages, I think I have the moral high ground here

I know atheist who look at stuff in the bible to discredit it's teaching it's for the sake of themselves.
prove I'm one, then we'll have a conversation

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 12:11 PM

how exactly am I corrupt? lol, you don't know anything about me

I never accused you of being corrupt and I can't prove it either, I only said it as a example.

It's common for hypocrites atheist and their double standards ect. Many Atheist are the type of people who wants to do morally wrong things that are considered a sin by the bible but they still choose to do it and out of fear of punishment they try to make excuses like cherry picking verses from the bible, or using Vatican pedo's as example, or people in poverty as a excuse for not Believing in God.

prove I'm one, then we'll have a conversation

That's almost as stupid as saying prove if those pornstars are Atheist, we only just talked and I don't even know you apart from the fact you like criticizing religion and the word of Jesus.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 12:19 PM

I never accused you of being corrupt and I can't prove it either, I only said it as a example.

cry me a river....
http://media.tumblr.com/3e312b33f75739ae7ee5bfffbdd8e462/tumblr_inline_mgrqdkCYNb1qhgvys.gif

It's common for hypocrites atheist and their double standards ect. Many Atheist are the type of people who wants to do morally wrong things that are considered a sin by the bible but they still choose to do it and out of fear of punishment they try to make excuses like cherry picking verses from the bible, or using Vatican pedo's as example, or people in poverty as a excuse for not Believing in God.

whatever...
http://media.tumblr.com/1b6204205a22b4485136b63eb2543f43/tumblr_inline_mfvwmlWLHU1qcs7kp.gif

That's almost as stupid as saying prove if those pornstars are Atheist, we only just talked and I don't even know you apart from the fact you like criticizing religion and the word of Jesus.

In that case, no conversation

Deimos

01-27-2013, 12:20 PM

That's almost as stupid as saying prove if those pornstars are Atheist, we only just talked and I don't even know you apart from the fact you like criticizing religion and the word of Jesus.

Pornstars can't be atheists. They refer to god all the time in their movies. :D

RussiaPrussia

01-27-2013, 12:21 PM

funny thing is atheist say they dont have a religion so why do they care and are arguing about religion??

Windischer

01-27-2013, 12:22 PM

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 12:24 PM

In that case, no conversation

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IIIq3KHs4ic/TKj3d88JqpI/AAAAAAAADng/SDjmnkYUX_o/s1600/atheism.png

The conversation was pointless from the start since you're so hell bend of viewing bible as evil and negative and deny all the good side of the bible.

One good reason Atheist for denying the existence of God is too continue doing their immoral pleasure and even if you insult people, hurt people's feeling there will no fear of being punished on the other side, this is what many Atheist wants.

Philo

01-27-2013, 12:25 PM

I wonder if I can start my own religion and claim I'm the son of god and in 2000 years I'll have billions of people considering me as the holiest person ever. I am a jew keep in mind.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 12:25 PM

vatikaners may be what they are, but am afraid that theyre probably more pleasant and cultured people than you guys :)
i dont mean this as judging, really, because you know (or not?) - as you judge others, so youll be judged :)

feel free to judge me,

FYI i think this is really bad advice

Jesus said this " whoever one of you had committed no sin, may cast the first stone at her " and in the end all of them left.(metaphorically speaking)

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 12:27 PM

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IIIq3KHs4ic/TKj3d88JqpI/AAAAAAAADng/SDjmnkYUX_o/s1600/atheism.png

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/0906/christians-christians-atheism-evolution-science-demotivational-poster-1246395400.jpg

http://www.blog.joelx.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/christianity-demotivational-poster.gif

Bitch.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 12:28 PM

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IIIq3KHs4ic/TKj3d88JqpI/AAAAAAAADng/SDjmnkYUX_o/s1600/atheism.png

wrong
you don't even know what atheism is....

The conversation was pointless from the start since you're so hell bend of viewing bible as evil and negative and deny all the good side of the bible.

I don't deny them I'm simply saying that the bad parts are relevant as well

One good reason Atheist for denying the existence of God is too continue doing in what pleasure they can find. Even if you insult people, hurt people's feeling there will no fear of being punished on the other side.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eeGNhmZBQLk/T753OksLlqI/AAAAAAAABPI/g3jjMGpkusw/s1600/jennifer-lawrence.gif

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 12:30 PM

I wonder if I can start my own religion and claim I'm the son of god and in 2000 years I'll have billions of people considering me as the holiest person ever. I am a jew keep in mind.

It's a living... :D

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 12:31 PM

http://www.blog.joelx.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/christianity-demotivational-poster.gif

Bitch.

Those who eat my flesh and drink blood will have eternal life. Do you understand what Jesus mean't by this? he didn't by eating his flesh of drink his blood but to believe in his words. Understand that there is actually a deep meaning to his words.
Jesus answers that they are looking for the wrong thing. They are only looking for physical food which will temporarily fill their stomachs. They should be looking for spiritual food which will give them eternal life.

"Then they said to Him, "Lord, give us this bread always." And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. ... And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day"

I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world."

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 12:33 PM

Those who eat my flesh and drink blood will have eternal life. Do you understand what Jesus mean't by this? he didn't by eating his flesh of drink his blood but to believe in his words. Understand that there is actually a deep meaning to his words.
Jesus answers that they are looking for the wrong thing. They are only looking for physical food which will temporarily fill their stomachs. They should be looking for spiritual food which will give them eternal life.

"Then they said to Him, "Lord, give us this bread always." And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. ... And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day"

I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world."

omg you are sooo right, this makes perfect sense. I need to repent for my sins :rolleyes:

I wonder how much money I need to pay the Vatican for that

http://media.tumblr.com/37d40f899f41f2ef050ce2a705ed1bcb/tumblr_inline_mgp40m4r091qc7ew2.gif

Philo

01-27-2013, 12:34 PM

Those who eat my flesh and drink blood will have eternal life. Do you understand what Jesus mean't by this? he didn't by eating his flesh of drink his blood but to believe in his words. Understand that there is actually a deep meaning to his words.
Jesus answers that they are looking for the wrong thing. They are only looking for physical food which will temporarily fill their stomachs. They should be looking for spiritual food which will give them eternal life.

"Then they said to Him, "Lord, give us this bread always." And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. ... And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day"

I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world."

I don't really see why you need some jewish guy from 2000 years ago to belive in god. I could belive in god perfectly well without any organized religion,

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 12:40 PM

Those who read the bible would spend time decoding the meaning.

Jesus said " The kingdom of God is within you " does anyone know what this means? it means the truth is in within our heart, God lives inside of us and happiness can be find within our heart.

Atheist don't believe in anything accept for the physical things in this world. They don't believe life after death, don't believe in spirits even though there were so many reported. Only thing they believe is science.

http://endtimesrevelations.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/atheism-2.jpg

Windischer

01-27-2013, 12:41 PM

i know he said that, and i wrote what i did, because what some people wrote into this thread strikes me as really being rude all the way.. i noticed this thread is mainly a clash between west (especially anglo world) and east
i think west gone atheist mainly because of bad experience with various iconoclastic sects that still exist in usa (those bible belt ppl)
anglosaxons whats wrong with you? i admire your legal culture, organization of state etc but lately youre losing grip of culture and decency; to speak more simply, you lost cultural balance and oscillate between extreme religious fundamentalism or extreme secular fundamentalism
both roads lead nowhere :)

p. s. atheism isnt a belief, atheism is simply a sceptic and critical worldview (a good thing) going mad, pushed ad absurdum
in my area atheism is connected with mostly urban worker class families (factory workers) which lost their cultural roots, being overwhelmed by communist school system (which was also aggressively atheistic and hailed urban factory workers as ideal people) - thats group of people where extreme worldviews easily found wide support. just to show you an example :)

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 12:46 PM

I don't like the view that atheism is somehow an "extreme" view.

It really isn't.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 12:48 PM

Those who read the bible would spend time decoding the meaning.

good for them

Jesus said " The kingdom of God is within you " does anyone know what this means? it means the truth is in within our heart, God lives inside of us and happiness can be find within our heart.

you're interpretation, you don't know what he actually meant

Atheist don't believe in anything accept for the physical things in this world.

wrong, the laws of Physics are not physical but they a clearly true

They don't believe life after death, don't believe in spirits even though there were so many reported.

yet, none of them are verifiable or make sense

the only thing they believe is science

thats cuz science is verifiable, testable, coherent, pier-reviewed.

really, science has a lot of things going for it

http://endtimesrevelations.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/atheism-2.jpg

wrong, the term knowledge is not applicable since atheist is the rejection of claims not the opposite

the burden of proof is not on us

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 12:48 PM

p. s. atheism isnt a belief, atheism is simply a sceptic and critical worldview (a good thing) going mad, pushed ad absurdum
in my area atheism is connected with mostly urban worker class families (factory workers) which lost their cultural roots, being overwhelmed by communist school system (which was also aggressively atheistic and hailed urban factory workers as ideal people) - thats group of people where extreme worldviews easily found wide support. just to show you an example :)

I'm a Atheist too and I tried to deny Gods existence many times just like you guys are doing but than I realize that you people deny him for the same reason as I did. It's always the ones who have psychological connection of fear of sin that they to deny God's existence to escape their own sins and crimes. The best way is to accuse him of not saving people from poverty and blame it God for not doing anything, or use verses from the bible or Vatican to justify it. while God said in the bible that he will reward people who does good things but he does not accept double standard.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3RMIH7oG7NM/Tsp2NznbsmI/AAAAAAAAAAA/gR6iWLAHgms/s400/atheism-is-wonderful.jpg

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 12:53 PM

good for them

you're interpretation, you don't know what he actually meant

wrong, the laws of Physics are not physical but they a clearly true

yet, none of them are verifiable or make sense

thats cuz science is verifiable, testable, coherent, pier-reviewed.

really, science has a lot of things going for it

wrong

http://i.imgur.com/GW8Pv.png

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 12:53 PM

I'm a Atheist too and I tried to deny Gods existence many times just like you guys are doing but than I realize that you people deny him for the same reason as I did. It's always the ones who have psychological connection of fear of sin that they to deny God's existence to escape their own sins and crimes. The best way is to accuse him of not saving people from poverty and blame it God for not doing anything, or use verses from the bible or Vatican to justify it. while God said in the bible that he will reward people who does good things but he does not accept double standard.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3RMIH7oG7NM/Tsp2NznbsmI/AAAAAAAAAAA/gR6iWLAHgms/s400/atheism-is-wonderful.jpg

How can you be an Atheist and not realise what atheism is?

http://i.imgur.com/GW8Pv.png

:ranger:

Methmatician

01-27-2013, 12:57 PM

It's always the ones who have psychological connection of fear of sin that they to deny God's existence to escape their own sins and crimes.

If you want to escape your crimes become a Christian :D

Philo

01-27-2013, 12:59 PM

I'm a Atheist too and I tried to deny Gods existence many times just like you guys are doing but than I realize that you people deny him for the same reason as I did. It's always the ones who have psychological connection of fear of sin that they to deny God's existence to escape their own sins and crimes. The best way is to accuse him of not saving people from poverty and blame it God for not doing anything, or use verses from the bible or Vatican to justify it. while God said in the bible that he will reward people who does good things but he does not accept double standard.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3RMIH7oG7NM/Tsp2NznbsmI/AAAAAAAAAAA/gR6iWLAHgms/s400/atheism-is-wonderful.jpg
Just the fact that you make it seem like God is required in order not to rape and murder etc.. makes religion seem stupid.

Žołnir

01-27-2013, 12:59 PM

funny thing is atheist say they dont have a religion so why do they care and are arguing about religion??

True, they make more fuzz about it and are more obsessed with God than theists. :D

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 01:00 PM

http://i.imgur.com/GW8Pv.png

I don't need to be a scientist to understand the scientific method.

I work and live with quite a few science majors and all of them agree with me, just sayin' :cool:

True, they make more fuzz about it and are more obsessed with God than theists. :D
It is an interesting subject, to say the least

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 01:01 PM

If you want to escape your crimes become a Christian :D

I don't need to because I find Christianity too boring to handle. The least you can do is be a good person, I think that's what God wants most for us.

Humanity are always tempted to do evil and find reasons of justification for their actions, I realized this is very true. People are always making justification for their own wrong doings.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 01:02 PM

I don't need to because I find Christianity too boring to handle. The least you can do is be a good person, I think that's what God wants most for us.

Humanity are always tempted to do evil and find reasons of justification for their actions, I realized this is very true. People are always making justification for their own wrong doings.
:picard1:
you're a troll. no way you're an atheist

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 01:04 PM

:picard1:
you're a troll. no way you're an atheist

I speak the truth, I do admit that I like living a double standard life just like most people really.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 01:06 PM

I speak the truth, I do admit that I like living a double standard life just like most people really.

As I said, you're projecting your own insecurities on actual atheists

Methmatician

01-27-2013, 01:07 PM

Windischer

01-27-2013, 01:08 PM

ppl, if youre going to continue with those stupid images, lets just close this thread k?
believing in science is an oxymoron, because science isnt built on belief :)
believing in theories... the same
(thats for ppl who write "i believe in (science, xyz theory etc)"
science requires proof !

however faith isnt science, thats why its faith - a simply good hearted approach. imagine youre standing next to a beggar and you give him few coins. you dont have to do it, but you simply want to do it. faith is like that. :)
faith doesnt require any proof nor anything

life too isnt science. life cant be directed by science - if you want to look how "scientific" society looks like, look at eastern europe post ww2, places that were ruled by red khmers, china, or north korea :)

there is no point in proving existence of God, there is no need to do that.

using argumentation and aggressive language of american bible belt or teenage angst-atheists doesnt get us anywhere.
humanistic worldview - where does it originate? in christianity :) there was nothing like that before IC XC.
and at last: some people here have really weird views of christianity. guys am christian and those things are weird even to me...

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 01:10 PM

As I said, you're projecting your own insecurities on actual atheists

If I had insecurities I wouldn't be so open about it.

It's usually people who want to claim God don't exist as insecure because they either fear or want to continue doing the things that are morally corrupt.

For example Migla, (I 'm not accusing you of really doing ) if you're a girl who sleeps with many guys as you like than it is a sin, because you do not respect your own body and no fornicator will inherit God's kingdom.

Žołnir

01-27-2013, 01:13 PM

It is an interesting subject, to say the least

Then it must be very interesting. This thread = started by atheist + most active posters here = atheists. :D

SkyBurn

01-27-2013, 01:15 PM

If I had insecurities I wouldn't be so open about it.

It's usually people who want to claim God don't exist as insecure because they either fear or want to continue doing the things that are morally corrupt.

For example Migla, (I 'm not accusing you of really doing ) if you're a girl who sleeps with many guys as you like than it is a sin, because you do not respect your own body and no fornicator will inherit God's kingdom.

Definitely a troll.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 01:19 PM

For example Migla, (I 'm not accusing you of really doing ) if you're a girl who sleeps with many guys as you like than it is a sin, because you do not respect your own body and no fornicator will inherit God's kingdom.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md7m1wKt611qgk3oho1_400.gif

my body is mine, not gods

Then it must be very interesting. This thread = started by atheist + most active posters here = atheists. :D

generally speaking, the subject of the religion is pretty much a done deal for me. I don't see how anybody could prove it, deism on the other hand...

Jägerstaffel

01-27-2013, 01:21 PM

The god of the Bible and the Koran and Torah is a psychopath so we can at least rule that one out as being something that is to be respected and/or worshiped.

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 01:21 PM

Definitely a troll.

I don't get why I'm getting called a troll
Why would anyone troll over something like this, there is no point.

You're properly asking why I think God exist if I'm a Atheist well to be honest I have a double standard mind in this kind of thing, but I prefer calling myself a Atheist since most of the times I do things that aren't according to the bible.

Like for example I've had sex with prostitute and people's wives before so I know that is very sinful thing to have done.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 01:23 PM

I don't get why I'm getting called a troll
Why would anyone troll over something like this, there is no point.

You're properly askin why I think God exist if I'm a Atheist well to be honest I have a double standard mind in this kind of thing, but I prefer calling myself a Atheist since most of the times I do things that aren't according to the bible.

Like for example I've had sex with prostitute and people's wives before so I know that is very sinful thing to have done.

you're not an atheist if you believe in god, deal with it

Twistedmind

01-27-2013, 01:24 PM

The god of the Bible and the Koran and Torah is a psychopath so we can at least rule that one out as being something that is to be respected and/or worshiped.

Making statement about something you obviously didn't red is rather stupid. ;)

Jägerstaffel

01-27-2013, 01:25 PM

Making statement about something you obviously didn't red is rather stupid. ;)

I have.

Twistedmind

01-27-2013, 01:25 PM

I have.

No you did not.

Žołnir

01-27-2013, 01:29 PM

generally speaking, the subject of the religion is pretty much a done deal for me. I don't see how anybody could prove it, deism on the other hand...

Ok np i live in hard core commie atheist area anyways so many of my friends are atheists. However nope i didn't said anything bout religion.

PS; i tough this thread is about mere believe in God not any established religions. :)

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 01:30 PM

you're not an atheist if you believe in god, deal with it

I'm not 100% sure whether I should believe or not but I do believe it's good for morals at least. If he does exist and you continue doing things that are bad you will end up in hell and you're burning there for eternity. There are many people who had life an death experience and was in hell.

I can't deny I'm living a double standard live and is very common for Atheist ( and religious people who lost their faith ) to keep living a double standard life.

Like said many times those Atheist who deny God existence just looking for a excuse for their justification always arguing their sin out of the way by criticizing God or the bible.

Jägerstaffel

01-27-2013, 01:33 PM

I'm not 100% sure whether I should believe or not but I do believe it's good for morals at least. If he does exist and you continue doing things that are bad you will end up in hell and you're burning there for eternity. There are many people who had life an death experience and was in hell.

Fear of damnation isn't a good motivation for good deeds.

Windischer

01-27-2013, 01:35 PM

if you think doing good deeds is about fear of damnation, well... i dont know what should i say

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 01:37 PM

Fear of damnation isn't a good motivation for good deeds.

You reap what you sow.

Rich people who never gave anything to the poor, do you think they can get away with it?

Many Rich people who lived in this live have gotten away with abusing, bullying, made many people lives a miserably and had not repent and the laws of human can't do nothing about it because their wealth is manipulating the jury decision. Do you think they can get away with it?

If those people don't receive punishment than where is the justice in this world?

Jägerstaffel

01-27-2013, 01:37 PM

if you think doing good deeds is about fear of damnation, well... i dont know what should i say

That's an argument religionists make.

Jägerstaffel

01-27-2013, 01:39 PM

You reap what you sow.

Rich people who never gave anything to the poor, do you think they can get away with it?

Rich people who abused, bullied, made many people lives a miserably and the law can't do nothing about it...... do you think they can get away with it?

If those people don't receive punishment, than where is the justice in this world?

Yes, many of them get away with it.

Wishful thinking isn't a good motivation for religious adherence either.

Philo

01-27-2013, 01:39 PM

You reap what you sow.

Rich people who never gave anything to the poor, do you think they can get away with it?

Many Rich people who lived in this live have gotten away with abusing, bullying, made many people lives a miserably and had not repent and the the laws of human can't do nothing about it...... do you think they can get away with it?

If those people don't receive punishment, than where is the justice in this world?
What about all the christians in the time of the crusaders who massacared jews and muslims alike, all in the name of christ? what about them?

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 01:41 PM

You reap what you sow.

Rich people who never gave anything to the poor, do you think they can get away with it?

Many Rich people who lived in this live have gotten away with abusing, bullying, made many people lives a miserably and had not repent and the laws of human can't do nothing about it because their wealth is manipulating the jury decision. Do you think they can get away with it?

If those people don't receive punishment than where is the justice in this world?

the world doesn't ow you anything, let alone justice

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 01:45 PM

What about all the christians in the time of the crusaders who massacared jews and muslims alike, all in the name of christ? what about them?

Okay you seem to be confusing that only Atheist can commit crimes, we all know even religious people can do crimes even Christians and pastors can do horrible things, that's because some of them frauds and not follow the words of Jesus. Obviously these people are burning in hell for it.

They killed in the name of Christ and now they will burn in the name of Christ.

Jesus said " whoever kills by the sword dies by the sword "

How can they follow Jesus when the commandment said "not to kill"? they are killing people for the wrong reasons.

Žołnir

01-27-2013, 01:46 PM

What about all the christians in the time of the crusaders who massacared jews and muslims alike, all in the name of christ? what about them?

There were some instances yes but in reality Arabs continioued to live in Crusader realms. :) In fact some Arab chronicler reports many Arabs live even better among Christians in Crusader states. :P

Edit by Arab i should say Muslim becouse Christian Arabs also existed.

Philo

01-27-2013, 01:50 PM

Okay you seem to be confusing that only Atheist can commit crimes, we all know even religious people can do crimes even Christians and pastors can do horrible things, that's because some of them frauds and not follow the words of Jesus. Obviously these people are burning in hell for it.

They killed in the name of Christ and now they will burn in the name of Christ.

Jesus said " whoever kills by the sword dies by the sword "

How can they follow Jesus when the commandment said "not to kill"? they are killing people for the wrong reasons.
Yeah so stop saying atheists are bad people and theists are good people. And stop saying atheists don't belive in god cuz they like to commit sins.

There were some instances yes but in reality Arabs continioued to live in Crusader realms. :) In fact some Arab chronicler reports many Arabs live even better among Christians in Crusader states. :P

Edit by Arab i should say Muslim becouse Christian Arabs also existed.
My point was to show that it is nonsense to make it seem like christians = good, non-christians=bad.

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 01:52 PM

Yeah so stop saying atheists are bad people and theists are good people. And stop saying atheists don't belive in god cuz they like to commit sins.

You can become good without believing in religion.

My point is to those people who are Atheist and try to use justification for their own actions by claiming God don't exist, I know many Atheist are like this, not saying some or even most are like that but many are.

Philo

01-27-2013, 01:55 PM

You can become good without believing in religion.

My point is to those people who are Atheist and try to use justification for their own actions by claiming God don't exist, I know many Atheist are like this, not saying some or even most are like that but many are.

I don't know any atheists who are like " I don't belive in god because I like to commit sins". but if you say so I belive you.

ButlerKing

01-27-2013, 01:58 PM

I don't know any atheists who are like " I don't belive in god because I like to commit sins". but if you say so I belive you.

No Atheist would ever say that out publicly since they don't even believe God, besides even if they said this it would have revealed the kind of person he/she is.

Aunt Hilda

01-27-2013, 02:03 PM

my point is to those people who are atheist and try to use justification for their own actions by claiming god don't exist, i know many atheist are like this, not saying some or even most are like that but many are.

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i've yet to meet one of those supposed "many" atheists

No Atheist would ever say that out publicly since they don't even believe God, besides even if they said this it would have revealed the kind of person he/she is.
not an atheist

Energia

01-27-2013, 04:37 PM

There could be some truth to religion keeping potentially evil people in check. Some of the most ruthless dictators in history were atheists with no morals or regard for human life. Joseph Stalin is a good example. It's not good to be an extreme on either side though.

I see evil doesn't matter with religion.
If one is evilish he will twist even the most beautiful of the credoes and the nicest of all religion to do evil.

Just look what did and still do, who more who less, Christiand and Muslims, who in abstract love to portray themselves as the good novel seekers.

We check what one do, not what he preach.

Barbarossa

01-28-2013, 01:39 PM

Just because science does not have all the answers, does not mean religion by default has them instead. The burden of proof lies on religion, and if Christianity is just as valid as Ancient Greek mythology, all religions are equally invalid. To believe in organised religion simply for lack of a better alternative is not faith. It is naivety.

I don't want to push my beliefs on others, but I don't think that the law should EVER be influenced on metaphorical rantings. Especially rantings which have as much truth to them as any unsubstantiated proposition I could make right now. And once church seeps into state, I have a problem. Which is why the validity of religion must be addressed.

I'm not claiming that religion has answers to everything. One can be atheist and have inteligent and worthy arguments for his/her stand. But Dawkins is far from having that. Natural science with its methods cannot understand and even think about everything and therefore it lacks instruments to argue with religion. It is completly valid to use scientific facts and theories as part of argumentation.

Problem is that Dawkins tought operates with very strange mix of scientific facts and theories with what we can call political theology. Dawkins never question human dignity, human rights, which is irrational and religious (in a broader sense of word of course) to very same extent than religion. Nobody can ever proove with science that killing wild boar it is not the same as killing of human being. Dawkins also does not ever think about religion in a philosophical terms and he never puts science to the critique, which is essential (Nietzsche could help here :D ). I consider here therefore as invalid to criticise anything. He is a pop star and hatemonger from the left. Many of atheist philosophers, thinkers and serrious people are something completly different and their thought is interesting for me.

Thirdly, I don't understand this modern obsession with organised religion. Those alternative religions, faith are only succesfull because one can rework their teaching according to the personal conviction or to a fascion of time.

RussiaPrussia

02-14-2013, 06:31 AM

i dont care if there is a god or not, i only care about this world

Veneficus

02-14-2013, 01:57 PM

For me the argument from first cause is convincing. A system like our universe needs a external cause for exist and if this cause isn't something like god so it needs another cause, the reasoning continues until the first cause that exist for itself, that thing only can be described as a god. But I don't believe in something like christianity, and the neo-atheism is nothing more than another stupid political moviment that have faith in humanism.