Hungarian-Turkic friendship

[Loki]

How strong is it? Hungary is counting on her Turanic brother's help to recover the lost lands of Trianon.

nmfzjx3BdIQ

ZiZsII1A-2Q

[Loki]

Btw the Hungarians are not even descended from the Huns. It is Magyarorszag - land of the Magyars. The Magyars were a Uralic folk, not a Turkic one.

[Twistedmind]

Btw the Hungarians are not even descended from the Huns. It is Magyarorszag - land of the Magyars. The Magyars were a Uralic folk, not a Turkic one.

I think Uralic is disputed in modern science. Magyars are considered to be part of Finnic language family.

[Loki]

I think Uralic is disputed in modern science. Magyars are considered to be part of Finnic language family.

Uralic-Finno-Ugric is one big family anyway.

[Twistedmind]

Uralic-Finno-Ugric is one big family anyway.

Yep I know. :) I just said, some contemporary linguists are disputing it. Of course, I dont speak any of languages, so I am bit confused concerning that subject. :)

[Archduke]

The only relatives of Hungarians in Europe are the Bulgarians.

[Loki]

The only relatives of Hungarians in Europe are the Bulgarians.

Genetically the Hungarians show a large percentage of Northern European - they are close to Germans actually. For some bizarre reason. But also have a strong Southern European component.

And no, they are not related to Bulgarians, unless you are referring to the ancient Bulgars.

[Albion]

Genetically the Hungarians show a large percentage of Northern European - they are close to Germans actually. For some bizarre reason. But also have a strong Southern European component.

And no, they are not related to Bulgarians, unless you are referring to the ancient Bulgars.

Maybe because they're descendants of the people that were there before Huns and Magyars invaded and just became assimilated. They're similar to the peoples around them because they're ultimately of the same origins.

[archangel]

well many Turks consider Hungarians as brothers including me:)

[Hevo]

The only relatives of Hungarians in Europe are the Bulgarians.

Uhm not if you look at the genetics.

Hungary:
Czech Republic 22,50%
Slovakia 33,50%
Austria 35,50%
Slovenia 35,50%
Poland 46,50%
Romania 46,50%
Belarus 48,50%
Ukraine 50,00%
North Greece 50,50%
Croatia 54,50%
Macedonia 54,50%

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

[Hoca]

Turanic brothership is beyond this world

[iNird]

Uhm not if you look at the genetics.

Hungary:
Czech Republic 22,50%
Slovakia 33,50%
Austria 35,50%
Slovenia 35,50%
Poland 46,50%
Romania 46,50%
Belarus 48,50%
Ukraine 50,00%
North Greece 50,50%
Croatia 54,50%
Macedonia 54,50%

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

What do your percentages represent and how where they calculated?

[Archduke]

Uhm not if you look at the genetics.

Hevo and his genetic stuff. :rolleyes:

Have you ever heard of historical connection? Bulgarians and Hungarians lived for centuries near Volga river. Arpad and Dulo clans were related. :)

[Azalea]

Hevo and his genetic stuff. :rolleyes:

Have you ever heard of historical connection? Bulgarians and Hungarians lived for centuries near Volga river. Arpad and Dulo clans were related. :)

Those were Turkic Bulgarians. Not the bastard-Slav kind you are representing.

[Hevo]

What do your percentages represent and how where they calculated?

Difference percentage and it was done by some dude here:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t873681-20/#post10427723

[Loki]

Difference percentage and it was done by some dude here:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t873681-20/#post10427723

Yeah. And basically, the lower the percentage, the closer related.

[iNird]

Difference percentage and it was done by some dude here:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t873681-20/#post10427723

I'm not registered to stormfront, can someone upload the excel file here? Kinda interested to see how he did that analysis.

Also kinda interesting the calculations show that Greece on a whole is closer related to Albania than Northern Greece.

Northern Greece is closer related to Macedonia, Bulgaria, Albania, Romania than Central and South Greece.

Central Greece is closer related to Albania than North Greece.

South Greece is closer related to Albania than North and South Greece.

[Arrow Cross]

Stop with the genetics spam already. Geez, I am supposed to be the blood-worshippin' evil Nazi here. Yet, I reiterate: cultural and national association goes way beyond mere bloodlines. Whether or not we're related to (and not descended from, BTW) the Huns is irrelevant. The Turanic identity is a foundation of our national spirit, and it has been for a millenium. Turks may have been our enemies for four centuries out of this, but none of the animosity remains today.

Our ancient legend (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunor_and_Magor) speaks of the two hunters, Hunor and Magor, sons of Nimród, who rode out with their people on an epic hunt in pursuit of the Wonder Stag, eventually settling in the West and founding the nations of the Huns and Magyars (Hungarians). For a thousand years, there was no doubt where we came from. Why should we turn down the friendship of those who claim the heritage of Attila? Why should we cripple ourselves in a time when rightful Hungarian nationalism is the boogeyman of every European country?

We know what must be done.

[ioan assen]

Didnt the Hungarians fight the Turks on their quest towards Europe and organizing crusade after crusade (till they were able to organize it)?
I ve heard that there are some common words between Hungarian and Turkish, but not much.

[Hoca]

Didnt the Hungarians fight the Turks on their quest towards Europe and organizing crusade after crusade (till they were able to organize it)?
I ve heard that there are some common words between Hungarian and Turkish, but not much.

They only fought Turks because Hungarians lost their Turanic identity. They became Christian and European. I have to say though, lately Hungarians are getting more conscious of their Turanian ancestry. This awakening began in 20th century.

[Szegedist]

So many misconceptions and lies about Turanism, I don't know where to start.
First of all, there are many relations other than genetic relations.
What do Bulgarians or Southern Serbs have genetically in common with Russians fro Moscow? Very little, but nobody goes around spamming that Russians are not Slavs.


As far as friendship goes, it has gotten off a rocky start a few hundred years ago, but modern relations have been fairly good.
Trade between Hungary and Turanic countries are increasing, as well as bilateral relations are improving at an accelerating pace.

http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2012/12/peter-szijjarto-opens-first-trading.html
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2012/10/turkish-investment-in-hungary-shows.html
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2012/06/sister-city-agreement-has-been-signed.htmlhttp://www.hungarianambiance.com/2012/12/the-hungarian-turan-foundation-signs.html
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2012/05/kazakhstan-and-hungary-are-strategic.html
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2012/10/pm-viktor-orban-met-speaker-of-turkish.html
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2012/05/prime-minister-of-hungary-to-visit.html



Hungary is counting on her Turanic brother's help to recover the lost lands of Trianon.
Is it? Can you give me some proof please? Has Jobbik asked Turkey to help invade Serbia? :rofl: :picard2:

No, we are not counting on it, they have their own issues, the most we could expect is a supply of arms, but that is probably it.

However, it would be nice, and I would not reject it, we do not count on it.




Btw the Hungarians are not even descended from the Huns. It is Magyarorszag - land of the Magyars. The Magyars were a Uralic folk, not a Turkic one.
The Magyars were just one of the tribes of the conquest era Hungarians, we assume it was the leading tribe.
The conquest era Hungarians were made up of various tribes. Turkic, Uralic and Allanian.
When the Huns were defeated, they retreated to the Caucasus region, where then the Uralic people have arrived, the various groups there, Huns, and various split off group of the Huns (Sabirs, Kutrigurs, etc) and Alanians mixed and formed the Onogur allience, who the Magyar tribe was the leading tribe.
This composition of peoples then went on to conquer the Carpathian Basin, and when they did this, they had knowledge of Huns, and that this land belonged to Attila, before any Western Scholar could tell them :)

[Szegedist]

They only fought Turks because Hungarians lost their Turanic identity. They became Christian and European. I have to say though, lately Hungarians are getting more conscious of their Turanian ancestry. This awakening began in 20th century.

We never lost our Turanic identity, it was simply suppressed and buried by the Catholic Church, however it never truly went away.
For example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunor_and_Magor#Political

[bimo]

Those were Turkic Bulgarians. Not the bastard-Slav kind you are representing.

just like you are bastard turkic-levantine-balkanian :ranger:

[Hevo]

I'm not registered to stormfront, can someone upload the excel file here? Kinda interested to see how he did that analysis.

Also kinda interesting the calculations show that Greece on a whole is closer related to Albania than Northern Greece.

Northern Greece is closer related to Macedonia, Bulgaria, Albania, Romania than Central and South Greece.

Central Greece is closer related to Albania than North Greece.

South Greece is closer related to Albania than North and South Greece.

Here is the file. http://www.2shared.com/document/XJZr66hU/europeydnadiff.html

[Archduke]

Those were Turkic Bulgarians. Not the bastard-Slav kind you are representing.

Hmmm...and this is coming from a lady. :rolleyes:

Shame on you.

[Dengizik]

Why people trying to destruct this brotherhood and saying lie? Hungarians and Turks friends forever as you can see in this thread too.

[Cail]

This Turanism is a nationalistic lie. Hungarians today are European by blood and Uralic by language, they have nothing in common with Turks in terms of genetics, language, culture, religion, anything. It's just national butthurt (no offence, but it's the best word to describe it) over the loss of an empire, great status and territory that is talking.

Anyway, regardless of Magyars, there is no such thing as "Turanic" at all, it's a bullshit anti-scientific invention of pan-Turkists also butthurt over being nobodies after the fall of Ottoman empite et cetera.

[Hoca]

We never lost our Turanic identity, it was simply suppressed and buried by the Catholic Church, however it never truly went away.
For example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunor_and_Magor#Political

Catholic Church is the devil's house.

[Loki]

The Jasz people also settled in Hungary, around Jászberény.

The are of Iranian/Sarmatian origin.

[Hoca]

This Turanism is a nationalistic lie. Hungarians today are European by blood and Uralic by language, they have nothing in common with Turks in terms of genetics, language, culture, religion, anything. It's just national butthurt (no offence, but it's the best word to describe it) over the loss of an empire, great status and territory that is talking.

Anyway, regardless of Magyars, there is no such thing as "Turanic" at all, it's a bullshit anti-scientific invention of pan-Turkists also butthurt over being nobodies after the fall of Ottoman empite et cetera.

You say it with your own words. Hungarians are Turanic in Language and Culture. What more do you need? Why is being pure blood so important? Since Hitler it shouldn't be a problem,not? At least for Turks it never was a problem. Maybe you are just afraid, Europe's time is gone. I'm just reading the words of a guy living in a dead continent.

[Cail]

The Jasz people also settled in Hungary, around Jászberény.

The are of Iranian/Sarmatian origin.

They are the Alan remnants. They speak a dialect of Ossetian (who are descendants of the Alans that settled in Caucasus).

[Loki]

My ex-girlfriend was a Jasz, from the same region. Black hair and blue eyes, beautiful.

[Loki]

They are the Alan remnants. They speak a dialect of Ossetian (who are descendants of the Alans that settled in Caucasus).

Today they just speak Hungarian. They are fully assimilated.

[Equilibrium]

I don't really belive in these Pan-Turkist stories, but on my 23andme ancestry finder I made a curious discovery. There is a segment on one of my chromosomes where there I have an overlap with both a Hungarian and Japanese person, meaning that the shared segment is of Turkic or Hunnic origin.

[Cail]

You say it with your own words. Hungarians are Turanic in Language and Culture. What more do you need? Why is being pure blood so important? Since Hitler it shouldn't be a problem,not? At least for Turks it never was a problem. Maybe you are just afraid, Europe's time is gone. I'm just reading the words of a guy living in a dead continent.

What?? Seriously, can you read? I explicitly wrote that Hungarians are European by culture and Uralic by language, and that there is NO such thing as "Turanic" at all. It simply does not exist from the scientific point of view.

[Cail]

Today they just speak Hungarian. They are fully assimilated.

Yes, though it happened relatively recently.

[Albion]

They only fought Turks because Hungarians lost their Turanic identity. They became Christian and European. I have to say though, lately Hungarians are getting more conscious of their Turanian ancestry. This awakening began in 20th century.

"Turanics" don't even exist, the only thing you have in common is the horse, and every Eurasian nation already has those. :rolleyes:

Turkics are just trying to claim weaker cultures as their own to because the only decent Turkics are Turks, the other Turkics are rather an embarrassment. The weaker cultures are drawn to this because they want to be part of something bigger and can't accept their actual reality.

[Hoca]

21 century will be the century of the Turanian races. Europeans are just afraid and jealous because their continent is dying. Otherwise they wouldn't be like this.

[Szegedist]

What I don't understand why people who know very little of Hungarian history (probably can't name a single leader and think Austria-Hungary during WW1 is all there is to it), have never been to the country, probably can't even find it on a map think they know everything about us our history,our culture, and care so much about Turanism.

[Albion]

21 century will be the century of the Turanian races. Europeans are just afraid and jealous because their continent is dying. Otherwise they wouldn't be like this.

Whereas Central Asia is already dead and you guys want to be chained to its corpse. Europe on it's supposed death bed would still be 100 times better than Central Asian shit holes.


What I don't understand why people who know very little of Hungarian history (probably can't name a single leader and think Austria-Hungary during WW1 is all there is to it), have never been to the country, probably can't even find it on a map think they know everything about us our history,our culture, and care so much about Turanism.

Obviously you can't belong to a culture that does not even exist. :picard1:

[Szegedist]

Anyway, here are the TRUE opinions of Europeans about Hungarians.


As a result of this propaganda campaign, Hungary's image became highly distorted in the West where decisions about Hungary's existence were being made in an extremely biased context, without any consideration for the facts:

reminiscing over Hungary's punishment at the Paris Peace Conference, the British diplomat Harold Nicolson noted:

"I confess that I regarded, and still regard,that Turanian tribe with acute distaste. Like their cousins the Turks, they had destroyed much and created nothing."
This Allied participant at the Paris Peace Conference did more than just express his unflattering opinion of the Hungarian people. He captured the biased political atmosphere of the international setting in which the historical Hungarian state met its death.



One of the most persistent and harmful images held of the Hungarians is that they are an alien and anomalous presence in Europe, differing ethno-linguistically from the surrounding Indo-Europeans (36). The Hungarians are often portrayed as "Asiatic barbarian intruders" who caused great harm to Europe. The legitimacy of their presence in Europe is therefore questioned, and they are considered to be a culturally inferior race:

since the eighteenth century, the Hungarians' rival nations began to wish the Magyars "back to Asia". And slurs denigrating the Hungarians as "barbarian intruders" are still to be heard from some "Europeans" at odds with their Hungarian neighbors... unfriendly views of German professors and philosophers putting down the "Asiatic Magyars" as an inferior race had found a lively response among the cultural elites of Hungary's ethnically awakening non-Magyar nationalities... denouncing the Hungarians as the source of all things evil in both the past and the present... the settlement of the Magyars in the Carpathian Basin as the "greatest misfortune"... Although sheer fantasy, these views, since World War I, have found wide acceptance in the West.



An influential English-language book by a Czech medievalist advanced the theory that the "invasion of the Magyars" destroyed the "bridge" built by the Moravian Empire between East and West. Unable "to take over the task of inter- mediaries and to transmit to the rest of Europe the treasures of Constantinople," the Magyars supposedly "severed" Western Europe from "its intellectual roots," thus delaying the rediscovery of antiquity that came with the Renaissance. See Francis Dvornik, The Making of Central andEastern Europe (London, 1949), 183-84. Quoted in Borsody,S., ed., The Hungarians: A Divided Nation, Yale Center for International and Area Studies, New Haven, 1988, p. 27.


http://www.hunmagyar.org/tor/origins.htm#2. Anti-Hungarian propaganda and bias

[Szegedist]

Obviously you can't belong to a culture that does not even exist. :picard1:

Says who, you? :bored:

[TheMagnificent]

I'm a Turk, but to be honest, I don't really feel a special affinity to Hungarians, even though we have been part of the same empire for a long time. And as far as I know, Turkey doesn't really have an exceptional bilateral relationship or whatsoever with Hungary.
Cultural events like the Kurultaj are nice to see, I can only encourage to continue with this, but apart from this, a shared culture of (mounted) archery and a few other things, I think we differ much from each other. By speaking about things like Turanism, et cetera, to the Hungarians, I think we're just ridiculing ourselves, because I don't feel there is really a special affinity of the majority of the Hungarians for Turks or Turkey, apart from some supporters of ''Turanism'', whatever they understand by that, like Jobbik. But correct me if I'm wrong.
Hungary is for me a country fully in the cultural sphere of Europe, but I feel for instance much more close to Balkan people like Bosnians, Serbians and Macedonians, because our cultural ties are much stronger, our influence on them has been much bigger and there is still a Turkish population in those countries with whom we share ties.

[Hayalet]

Hungarians are a unique ethnic group in Central-Eastern Europe and should be recognized as such. It's disrespectful and frankly stupid to insinuate they are just confused Germans or Slavs.

That being said, I am skeptical of this Turan (which is merely an Iranian designation for southern Central Asia) business. The Ural-Altaic theory is no longer accepted and while some Turkic tribes certainly influenced the Hungarian ethnogenesis (they got the exonym, Hungarian, from Turkic Onogur confederation), they are long gone and their modern descendants/relatives live in far away places (Chuvashia) to serve as a bridge.

[Albion]

Anyway, here are the TRUE opinions of Europeans about Hungarians.


As a result of this propaganda campaign, Hungary's image became highly distorted in the West where decisions about Hungary's existence were being made in an extremely biased context, without any consideration for the facts:

reminiscing over Hungary's punishment at the Paris Peace Conference, the British diplomat Harold Nicolson noted:

This Allied participant at the Paris Peace Conference did more than just express his unflattering opinion of the Hungarian people. He captured the biased political atmosphere of the international setting in which the historical Hungarian state met its death.



One of the most persistent and harmful images held of the Hungarians is that they are an alien and anomalous presence in Europe, differing ethno-linguistically from the surrounding Indo-Europeans (36). The Hungarians are often portrayed as "Asiatic barbarian intruders" who caused great harm to Europe. The legitimacy of their presence in Europe is therefore questioned, and they are considered to be a culturally inferior race:

since the eighteenth century, the Hungarians' rival nations began to wish the Magyars "back to Asia". And slurs denigrating the Hungarians as "barbarian intruders" are still to be heard from some "Europeans" at odds with their Hungarian neighbors... unfriendly views of German professors and philosophers putting down the "Asiatic Magyars" as an inferior race had found a lively response among the cultural elites of Hungary's ethnically awakening non-Magyar nationalities... denouncing the Hungarians as the source of all things evil in both the past and the present... the settlement of the Magyars in the Carpathian Basin as the "greatest misfortune"... Although sheer fantasy, these views, since World War I, have found wide acceptance in the West.



An influential English-language book by a Czech medievalist advanced the theory that the "invasion of the Magyars" destroyed the "bridge" built by the Moravian Empire between East and West. Unable "to take over the task of inter- mediaries and to transmit to the rest of Europe the treasures of Constantinople," the Magyars supposedly "severed" Western Europe from "its intellectual roots," thus delaying the rediscovery of antiquity that came with the Renaissance. See Francis Dvornik, The Making of Central andEastern Europe (London, 1949), 183-84. Quoted in Borsody,S., ed., The Hungarians: A Divided Nation, Yale Center for International and Area Studies, New Haven, 1988, p. 27.


http://www.hunmagyar.org/tor/origins.htm#2. Anti-Hungarian propaganda and bias

Why post a diplomat's warped view of history? He was obviously anti-Hungarian and trying to portray you as barbarians.


Says who, you? :bored:

Everyone that isn't a complete retard with regards to history, posting daft theories from debunked pseudo-historians.
I don't know why anyone wants to pretend to be Central Asian anyway. Historically they only benefited from being parasites on the settled civilizations in the Middle East, East Asia and Europe. The only time Central Asians did well is when they were monopolizing trade routes or moved into decent lands such as Anatolia.

[Albion]

Hungarians are a unique ethnic group in Central-Eastern Europe and should be recognized as such. It's disrespectful and frankly stupid to insinuate they are just confused Germans or Slavs.

That being said, I am skeptical of this Turan (which is merely an Iranian designation for southern Central Asia) business. The Ural-Altaic theory is no longer accepted and while some Turkic tribes certainly influenced the Hungarian ethnogenesis (they got the exonym, Hungarian, from Turkic Onogur confederation), they are long gone and their modern descendants/relatives live in far away places (Chuvashia) to serve as a bridge.

They are related to the peoples around them even if their culture is different.

[Szegedist]

Everyone that isn't a complete retard with regards to history, posting daft theories from debunked pseudo-historians.
I don't know why anyone wants to pretend to be Central Asian anyway. Historically they only benefited from being parasites on the settled civilizations in the Middle East, East Asia and Europe. The only time Central Asians did well is when they were monopolizing trade routes or moved into decent lands such as Anatolia.

It is our, and only our business.

[Szegedist]

They are related to the peoples around them even if their culture is different.

And what do you know about Hungarian culture? Paprika? :rofl:

[Albion]

It is our, and only our business.

Yes, of course. Well thankfully I don't think the majority of Hungarians are willing to see their nation become the laughing stock of Europe. Ultimately it's your decision though, personally I don't see what the attraction is.

[Albion]

And what do you know about Hungarian culture? Paprika? :rofl:

Not a lot, but a decent overview of it. I'm not Hungarian you see. Clearly you're no Austrians, but genetically you are related to them and the other nations around you. May I ask you how much you know about you're so-called Turanian brothers? What do you know of the Tungusic peoples for example, did you Turanian guys consult them about stealing their identity into a larger, mythical "Turanian" one? :rolleyes:

[Szegedist]

Yes, of course. Well thankfully I don't think the majority of Hungarians are willing to see their nation become the laughing stock of Europe. Ultimately it's your decision though, personally I don't see what the attraction is.

Since 1920 you made us into the laughing stock in Europe, especially when the Entente gave Transylvania to the primitive Romanian Shepards, that is as insulting as it gets.

Right now we already are the laughing stock of the EU, because our government is not pro-idiotic policies of the Western countries.

So what do you want now?


personally I don't see what the attraction is.
That is now for you to see or understand, Europeans never will.

[Dengizik]

http://m.ak.fbcdn.net/sphotos-g.ak/hphotos-ak-ash3/560792_424533544262403_380559419_n.jpg

[archangel]

i dont understand why brits ot any other nations who dont have any kind of relations with turks and hungarians care so much about this i am turkish and i have a symphaty for hungarians etc many of us feeling this way too btw

[Szegedist]

Anyway, much of Turanism is about geopolitics, economics, with an ethno-cultural twist to it.

The Eastern Opening of Jobbik and the current government is not purely aimed at Turkic nations, but also China, Iran,Russia etc. This is in the interest of Hungarians and Hungary. To remain in the EU or Western oriented liberal politic will be the death of us.

Our situation is complex, and I do not want to go into detail about Hungarian mentality, politics, because most of you don't care, nor does it make a difference to Western Europe. And we don't care what you think either, whether we are a laughing stock for you or not, you made it clear how you felt about us already in 1920, and many times before and after that, time for us to move on instead of dreaming to be "accepted" as t00 Europeans.

[Hoca]

Anyway, much of Turanism is about geopolitics, economics, with an ethno-cultural twist to it.

The Eastern Opening of Jobbik and the current government is not purely aimed at Turkic nations, but also China, Iran,Russia etc. This is in the interest of Hungarians and Hungary. To remain in the EU or Western oriented liberal politic will be the death of us.

Of course it has to do with geopoltics and economics too. Not only blood and culture.

I think Hungarians are trying to have better relationship with Turks. Recently they released an Azeri prisoner who killed an Armenian. Armenians got very angry about this but the Armeian who was killed insulted the Azeri guy which family was killed by Armenians in Karabakh massacre.
http://www.thedaily.hu/government-defends-azeri-prisoner-transfer/

[Annihilus]

I have sympathy for Hungarians too because most of them are aware of their roots and are proud of it. We are indeed a brother people.

[SKYNET]

if all turks and their brothers hungarians want to create a Pan Turanism, then others in the world like Indo-Europeans will create a Pan Aryan alliance. Khoi-san, Niger Congo, Nilo-Saharian will create their own confederation as known as the black African unity.. and the follow step is interesting.. a semitic people will create Abrahamic union(jews, arabs, assyrians, berbers, somalians, maltese etc), and also the Dene-Caucasians will create the Sino-Caucasian brothership.

if it all happens then I'll dare to say the NATO will suck ficus hairy balls, I'm sure :D

[Hoca]

if all turks and their brothers hungarians want to create a Pan Turanism, then others in the world like Indo-Europeans will create a Pan Aryan alliance. Khoi-san, Niger Congo, Nilo-Saharian will create their own confederation as known as the black African unity.. and the follow step is interesting.. a semitic people will create Abrahamic union(jews, arabs, assyrians, berbers, somalians, maltese etc), and also the Dene-Caucasians will create the Sino-Caucasian brothership.

if it all happens then I'll dare to say the NATO will suck ficus hairy balls, I'm sure :D

That is only an assumption. Pan Aryan Alliance already exist. It is called the EU and as we can see it is based on nothing and on brink of destruction.

These fake alliances you can't compare to Turanian alliance. This alliance stretches back for millenniums. We are empire builders. We have a feeling for this. other races are only trying to simulate us and fail. That is why EU will fail. Turanian races are not like Europeans. We have history behind us.

[Szegedist]

Who is Talking about a Turanic union or federation, Westernboy?

[SKYNET]

Who is Talking about a Turanic union or federation, Westernboy?



I guess there is one member who wants or who dreams to build a great Turan.

[Il Principe]

Hungarians would do better to look towards countries like Poland for feelings of ethnic brotherhood. I do not see any similarity between Hungary and Turkey whatsoever.

On a side note, I do find Jobbik's brand of anti-Semitism to be strange - how do they have feelings of racial revulsion towards Jews, but not towards Turks? It really is strange, how they manage to feel both these things and not have a cognitive dissonance.

[Albion]

That is only an assumption. Pan Aryan Alliance already exist. It is called the EU and as we can see it is based on nothing and on brink of destruction.

These fake alliances you can't compare to Turanian alliance. This alliance stretches back for millenniums. We are empire builders. We have a feeling for this. other races are only trying to simulate us and fail. That is why EU will fail. Turanian races are not like Europeans. We have history behind us.

The Ottoman Empire is the only notable "Turanic" achievement compared to the vast achievements of all the real (nonfictional) civilizations around supposed "Turanics".
European, South and East Asian civilizations never tried to copy backwards nomads, it was usually nomads copying them. Every time nomads trespassed into civilized areas they soon embraced the local way of life, settled and were assimilated into the superior cultures. They only survived with their original cultures intact in the parts of Eurasia that nobody else wanted. :picard1:

[Hoca]

Hungarians would do better to look towards countries like Poland for feelings of ethnic brotherhood. I do not see any similarity between Hungary and Turkey whatsoever.

On a side note, I do find Jobbik's brand of anti-Semitism to be strange - how do they have feelings of racial revulsion towards Jews, but not towards Turks? It really is strange, how they manage to feel both these things and not have a cognitive dissonance.

Probably because they have nothing to do with Jews nor Poles.

Turks and Hungarians share come origin. If you don't know history. You won't understand the connection.

[Szegedist]

Don't worry, we, including Jobbik do look towards Poland, and also Croatia and some other European countries.

Jobbik and its allies have been orgonising pan European festivals, gatherings of European patriots, etc, Jobbik has been doing more for pan European nationalism than any of your so called Western European "nationalist" parties like Geert Wilders.

We want to improve our relations with the East, but by no means do we plan to ignore Europe, especially our old allies. Poles have are our best friends, historically and now and we will not abandon them, the Turanian relations has not been time tested by disaster, war, etc yet.

[Il Principe]

Probably because they have nothing to do with Jews nor Poles.
I really cannot make heads nor tails out of this post.

I was saying that Jews and Turks are about equally alien to Hungarians, so it strikes me as odd that the Jobbik members have such racial disgust for one of these while having friendly feelings for the other. It is a contradiction.

(Also, if we want to discuss biology, the Hungarians have a whole lot to do with Poles.)

[Hoca]

The Ottoman Empire is the only notable "Turanic" achievement compared to the vast achievements of all the real (nonfictional) civilizations around supposed "Turanics".
European, South and East Asian civilizations never tried to copy backwards nomads, it was usually nomads copying them. Every time nomads trespassed into civilized areas they soon embraced the local way of life, settled and were assimilated into the superior cultures. They only survived with their original cultures intact in the parts of Eurasia that nobody else wanted. :picard1:

Okey, so what did you British achieve then? You talk about civilizations and races etc..

Tell me, what did Brits achieve? The roman empire was built by Etruscans and Romans were mostly Mediterranean people. You brits didn't achieve anything. You just copied from civilization that started in the Middle-east, also known as cradle of civilization.

The Brits only grew because of slavery, genocide of natives, exploitation of natural resources and exploiting natives. If Turks did the same as Brits, we would be same position as you. I will leave it at that for the moment. You seems to live in your own world, not knowing what is going around you.




I was saying that Jews and Turks are about equally alien to Hungarians
This is wrong on so many levels. I don't know where to begin. You didn't read my whole comment. I don't want to repeat myself.

[Il Principe]

Okey, so what did you British achieve then?
Well, for one, here is a list of the European nations (from the book Human Accomplishment by Charles Murray) with the most accomplishments to their name:

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu253/Tyranos/2-3.jpg

As we see, Britain is at the top, closely followed by Germany, France, and Italy. Although, being an Italophile myself, I'd raise the Italians to a higher position (due to the Roman Empire and the Renaissance). But overall, Murray's book is mostly accurate in its measuring of accomplishments in science, arts and politics, and I'm fairly sure Murray knows better than the average Internet Professor.

Also, how do you explain the fact that most British accomplisments were before the British Empire became a superpower? From Geoffrey Chaucer to William Shakespeare to Isaac Newton, none of them lived when Britain had colonial empires.

[Il Principe]

This is wrong on so many levels. I don't know where to begin. You didn't read my whole comment. I don't want to repeat myself.
How about you answer my post, instead of stating "omg, this is wrong"?

[Albion]

Tell me, what did Brits achieve? The roman empire was built by Etruscans and Romans were mostly Mediterranean people. You brits didn't achieve anything. You just copied from civilization that started in the Middle-east, also known as cradle of civilization.

We started industrialization, invented a lot of the things you take for granted today, opened up international commerce and founded many of the nations around today.

BTW, if the Middle East is the Cradle of civilization then you're also claiming that Turanics must have copied it from there as well, invalidating your earlier claim about others copying your non-existent civilization.


The Brits only grew because of slavery, genocide of natives, exploitation of natural resources and exploiting natives. If Turks did the same as Brits, we would be same position as you. I will leave it at that for the moment. You seems to live in your own world, not knowing what is going around you.

Turks did, and actually it grew from the industrial might of Britain. We were the China of our day.

But the British aren't a civilization themselves, we just form a part of the greater European one. European, Chinese, Indian and even Muslim (that is, Middle Eastern) Civilizations are all greater than Turanian myths. There was never any Turanic civilization, Central Asian nomads just entered civilized areas and assimilated into the local populations or on rare occasions adopted and adapted them to their own cultures. You need to face facts that your Turanian nonsense is all lies and BS.

[Proto-Shaman]

Didnt the Hungarians fight the Turks on their quest towards Europe and organizing crusade after crusade (till they were able to organize it)?
I ve heard that there are some common words between Hungarian and Turkish, but not much.
Actually there are only 2000 words common with Turkish. Go further east, Uyghur lang. have 4000 words in common with Hungarian.


They only fought Turks because Hungarians lost their Turanic identity. They became Christian and European. I have to say though, lately Hungarians are getting more conscious of their Turanian ancestry. This awakening began in 20th century.
I concur. Actually the Hungarians take care most about their Turanian identity, as far as I know.


Catholic Church is the devil's house.
Its the evil Vatican since Babylon.


They are the Alan remnants. They speak a dialect of Ossetian (who are descendants of the Alans that settled in Caucasus).
Bullshit. Jazs were Turkic. Jazs lang. did not differ from Cuman lang. Sarmatians were Turks as well.


"Turanics" don't even exist, the only thing you have in common is the horse, and every Eurasian nation already has those. :rolleyes:

Turkics are just trying to claim weaker cultures as their own to because the only decent Turkics are Turks, the other Turkics are rather an embarrassment. The weaker cultures are drawn to this because they want to be part of something bigger and can't accept their actual reality.

and that there is NO such thing as "Turanic" at all. It simply does not exist from the scientific point of view.
:blink: :loco: :crazy: :lol00002: :picard1:


21 century will be the century of the Turanian races. Europeans are just afraid and jealous because their continent is dying. Otherwise they wouldn't be like this.
TBD :) The west is trying to avoid our unity. Actually since many thousands of years, really evilish...


What I don't understand why people who know very little of Hungarian history (probably can't name a single leader and think Austria-Hungary during WW1 is all there is to it), have never been to the country, probably can't even find it on a map think they know everything about us our history,our culture, and care so much about Turanism.
Never mind Brother. Don't care about these idiots :)


Europe on it's supposed death bed would still be 100 times better than Central Asian shit holes.
EU IS DESTROYING EUROPEAN NATIONS SOVEREIGNTY!!!!!


Obviously you can't belong to a culture that does not even exist. :picard1:
Long live Turan at all :D
kmNkBlEelNw


I don't know why anyone wants to pretend to be Central Asian anyway.
Even Swedes and Norwegians have DIRECT Centralasian ties :D
Dr. David K. Faux, The Genetic Link of the Viking – Era Norse to Central Asia: An Assessment of the Y Chromosome DNA, Archaeological, Historical and Linguistic Evidence, ©2004 – 2007 (http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/btn_Archeology/FauxDKGeneticLinkOfVikingEn.htm)

Original PDF (http://www.davidkfaux.org/CentralAsiaRootsofScandinavia-Y-DNAEvidence.pdf)


http://m.ak.fbcdn.net/sphotos-g.ak/hphotos-ak-ash3/560792_424533544262403_380559419_n.jpg
INDEED! WE ARE THE DESCANDANTS OF ATTILA!!!


if all turks and their brothers hungarians want to create a Pan Turanism, then others in the world like Indo-Europeans will create a Pan Aryan alliance.
Archaeological excavations have already shown the falsity of the so called theory of blue eyed or blonde Indo-European Nomads. Neither Herodotus nor Strabo identify Andronovo culture, Karasuk culture, Afanasevo culture, Timber Grave culture, Abashevo culture, Cimmerians, Saka/Scythians, Alekseyevka culture, Thracians, Thraco-Cimmerian, or even the Sigynnae, as Iranian. In contrast those cultural areas seem to be identical with the Turkic cultural sphere. Next thing is to pronounce Uralics as indigenous slightly mongoloid "Indo-Iranians" and propagate this thesis through scholarly scientific discourses and encyclopedias. Note that Russian Academy shoveled over hundreds of Andronov kurgans and thousands of burials, but did not get around to do a single DNA test in support of the "Indo-Iranian" speculations. Neither did the testing the "Indo-Iranian" proponents in the West, where DNA testing is as routine as a urine test. As long as the language of the populations is inferred from the silent shreds, the opposing facts are ignored, and selected anecdotal examples serve a proofs, the "Indo-Iranians" propaganda has a chance. The Andronovo culture is a kind of an ancient document, the very proof that puts Turkic People into the role of ancient Aryans, who were mythologized by Nazis in WW2 and by eurocentric racists in the 19th century. The concept about Andronov cultures belonging to the carriers of the Türkic-lingual ethnos were also postulated earlier (Tchernikov, 1957; Amanjolov, 1971, pp. 64-66; Amanjolov, 1975; Amanjolov, 1980). Now the numbers of scholars expressing this position gradually grows (Askarov, 1996, p. 71; Askarov, 2001, pp. 69-72; Askarov, 2002, p. 55; Askarov, 2004, p. 4-6; Hodjaev, 2003, pp. 176-184; Iskhakov, 2003, 7-12).
For further information visit: Middle Asian Ethnogenesis (http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/btn_Archeology/MiddleAsianEthnogenesisEn.htm)


That is only an assumption. Pan Aryan Alliance already exist. It is called the EU and as we can see it is based on nothing and on brink of destruction.
The reason for its brink of destruction is that EU has nothing to do with Aryan Turks, but rather with evil Vatican policy.


Hungarians would do better to look towards countries like Poland for feelings of ethnic brotherhood. I do not see any similarity between Hungary and Turkey whatsoever.

On a side note, I do find Jobbik's brand of anti-Semitism to be strange - how do they have feelings of racial revulsion towards Jews, but not towards Turks? It really is strange, how they manage to feel both these things and not have a cognitive dissonance.
Good morning :D Hungarians are already searching their Turanian brothers in Kazakh villages and cities.


The Ottoman Empire is the only notable "Turanic" achievement compared to the vast achievements of all the real (nonfictional) civilizations around supposed "Turanics".
Central Asia is the homeland of Turanian Civilizations. Learn history. Civilizations begins with us Turanians ;-)

"Take Turks out of History, there will be nothing called history left."
- Jean-Jacques Rousseau


European, South and East Asian civilizations never tried to copy backwards nomads, it was usually nomads copying them. Every time nomads trespassed into civilized areas they soon embraced the local way of life, settled and were assimilated into the superior cultures. They only survived with their original cultures intact in the parts of Eurasia that nobody else wanted. :picard1:
Bullshit. Its the opposite. learn history not evil vatican shit. seriously. cover your anglo saxon roots...


Well, for one, here is a list of the European nations (from the book Human Accomplishment by Charles Murray) with the most accomplishments to their name:

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu253/Tyranos/2-3.jpg
Evil Vatican work!!! Reproduction of Eurasian Technology!

[Arrow Cross]

I really cannot make heads nor tails out of this post.

I was saying that Jews and Turks are about equally alien to Hungarians, so it strikes me as odd that the Jobbik members have such racial disgust for one of these while having friendly feelings for the other. It is a contradiction.
It isn't. One of these races has been undermining our society, our politics, our culture, our education, our finances, our media and our whole traditional Christian way of life for the past 150 years and is still dead-set on preventing a nationalist revival here and everywhere else in Europe.
The other one isn't.
Our "far-right" has also been a loyal supporter of the Palestinian cause. We know how it feels for a people to be made foreigners in their own land.


(Also, if we want to discuss biology, the Hungarians have a whole lot to do with Poles.)
No, we don't want to discuss biology in a thread about culture and geopolitics, but indeed, we're looking forward to cooperation with Poland, and any European country that eventually manages to shake off the Zionist yoke.

A Hungary under Jobbik will have to turn to the East exactly because it will have nowhere else to turn to.

[Szegedist]

A Hungary under Jobbik will have to turn to the East exactly because it will have nowhere else to turn to.


You hit the nail exactly on the head. Heck, even Zsidesz (who lets face it, is more right wing and patriotic than most governing parties in the EU) found itself having to turn to the East several times, because even Zsidesz is too much for the idiots in Brussels, imagine how they will react if Jobbik gets stronger, or even wins.

[Szegedist]

By the way, I have noticed that pro EU leftwingers in Hungary hate Turanism, and one of the reasons for it is that they think it is ridiculous and we look nothing like Turkic people. In fact, one of them tried to talk to me about Haplogroups, the same person who before said that Gypsies are Hungarians.

Don't you see the hypocrisy and double standards among the left?
Sure, we are not related to Turkic people because of our haplogroups, but Jews, Gypsies, Fekete Pákó are all 100% Tiszta Magyars.

[Onur]

And no, they are not related to Bulgarians, unless you are referring to the ancient Bulgars.
In fact, Hungarians are related to Bulgars. Their historical past crossed each others path by many times.

Tough, like Ashina explained below, they are related with Bulgars, not today`s Bulgarians who even refuses to recognize the historical background of Bulgars who founded their state;

Those were Turkic Bulgarians. Not the bastard-Slav kind you are representing.



The weaker cultures are drawn to this because they want to be part of something bigger and can't accept their actual reality.
Hungarians has no "weak culture". They are one of the oldest states in Europe and have one of the richest in history with imperial background.


Yes, of course. Well thankfully I don't think the majority of Hungarians are willing to see their nation become the laughing stock of Europe. Ultimately it's your decision though, personally I don't see what the attraction is.
Laughing stock because of what? by thinking about alliance with Turks?

Imho, they would be the real laughing stock of Europe if they would consider themselves akin to Slovaks, Romanians or with their other neighbors by ignoring their own 1000s years old giant historical background.

No offense to Slovaks or Romanians but can you tell me is it possible to compare them with Hungarians if we consider their historical backgrounds? I don't even think Slovaks have any historical background at all and we are not even sure who are Romanians, what is their roots? some mountain shepherds with obscure origins, thats it.



since the eighteenth century, the Hungarians' rival nations began to wish the Magyars "back to Asia". And slurs denigrating the Hungarians as "barbarian intruders" are still to be heard from some "Europeans" at odds with their Hungarian neighbors... unfriendly views of German professors and philosophers putting down the "Asiatic Magyars" as an inferior race had found a lively response among the cultural elites of Hungary's ethnically awakening non-Magyar nationalities... denouncing the Hungarians as the source of all things evil in both the past and the present... the settlement of the Magyars in the Carpathian Basin as the "greatest misfortune"...
Szegedist, we heard similar comments about Turks during and after the WW-1, like we are invaders from Asia and supposedly the destroyers etc. The British PM Lloyd George said that if they can reduce Turkish population to 2 million by sending Greek army to massacre us in Anatolia, then they can deport the remains to central Asia and eradicate Turkish state all together.

We resisted to them and eventually won our independence but i am so sorry Hungarians never able to did that and they are still suffering since Paris conference.

[Szegedist]

We resisted to them and eventually won our independence but i am so sorry Hungarians never able to did that and they are still suffering since Paris conference.



We were surrounded by the Little Entente:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Little_Entente.png

Who were supplied and backed by the French, Americans, the English.
They were much more numerous, much more better equipped and had us surrounded.


relative army sizes:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/hu/a/af/Little_Entente_Army_vs_Hungary.png


On top of that, we had a civil war, a mostly Jewish communist incompetent government took over after a centrist government collapsed, there were anti-communist revolutionaries in Szeged fighting against the communists, the country was descended into chaos . Not to mention that Hungary lost the vast majority of her industrial capability, so was severely crippled. We had no chance.
Also, the incompetency of our leadership at that critical time deserves no words. This is just scrathing the surface about how sh!t the situation really was back then.
When the Szeged revolutionaries came to power, it was too little too late.

Czechoslovakia claimed parts of current Northern Hungary, Yugoslavs claimed parts of todays Southern Hungary, Romanians wanted Hungary all the way to the river Tisza, if we did not agree to the terms of the treaty, we would have lost even more land, and Hungary would have literally only been Budapest and surrounding areas.


Two decades later, after nonstop pursuing of revisionism, many of the obstacles gave way, we have partially achieved our goal:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Hungary_1941-1944.jpg

"The Hungarian people were not quite sane on that subject(Trianon)." during the interwar era.
http://www.hungarianhistory.com/lib/bors/bors07.htm


Then came the communists, and anything to be done about Trianon was impossible, then came the incompetent democrats in the 90s, and now we are here.

[Vesuvian Sky]

:)

Yes! Great thread idea!

I'm sure we are familiar with this site:

http://www.hunmagyar.org

Been fascinated by the concept of Turan for years. Anyway it seems that Hungarian language is Uralic but most Hungarians are genetically c. European. Magyars were said to belong to the Onugur alliance/confederation - "People of the 10 tribes". That's apparently where we get Hungary as an exonym.

Interestingly enough, linguist Joseph Greenberg lumped Uralic and Altaic together at times as a macro-family or the Uralic-Altaic group which he and some other linguists subscribe to.

Some phrases in Uralic languages can indeed be rather similar to counterpart phrases in Atlaic languages. But there can also be vast differences as well.

[Hoca]

:)

Yes! Great thread idea!

I'm sure we are familiar with this site:

http://www.hunmagyar.org

Been fascinated by the concept of Turan for years. Anyway it seems that Hungarian language is Uralic but most Hungarians are genetically c. European. Magyars were said to belong to the Onugur alliance/confederation - "People of the 10 tribes". That's apparently where we get Hungary as an exonym.

Interestingly enough, linguist Joseph Greenberg lumped Uralic and Altaic together at times as a macro-family or the Uralic-Altaic group which he and some other linguists subscribe to.

Some phrases in Uralic languages can indeed be rather similar to counterpart phrases in Atlaic languages. But there can also be vast differences as well.
Just out of curiosity. Why are you so fascinated about Turan as a Greek?

[archangel]

hajra turan we say

[Vesuvian Sky]

Just out of curiosity. Why are you so fascinated about Turan as a Greek?

Actually my ancestry is southern Italian but anyway...

I studied archaeology of the steppes in school. During prehistory, there were two main areas of human innovation: the steppe (horse domestication/nomadic pastoralist societies) and middle east (agriculture/rise of proto-urban civilization).

Both places laid important foundations for human development particularly across Eurasia. So naturally, to understand this one must begin studying the archaeology of these two places but also the culture history. Understanding of steppe societies is more esoteric in the west then understanding of ME societies.

I am usually more interested in the esoteric rather then the obvious, hence my interest.

[Hoca]

Actually my ancestry is southern Italian but anyway...

I studied archaeology of the steppes in school. During prehistory, there were two main areas of human innovation: the steppe (horse domestication/nomadic pastoralist societies) and middle east (agriculture/rise of proto-urban civilization).

Both places laid important foundations for human development particularly across Eurasia. So naturally, to understand this one must begin studying the archaeology of these two places but also the culture history. Understanding of steppe societies is more esoteric in the west then understanding of ME societies.

I am usually more interested in the esoteric rather then the obvious, hence my interest.
Could you recommend any good books on this topic?

[Cail]

Bullshit. Jazs were Turkic. Jazs lang. did not differ from Cuman lang. Sarmatians were Turks as well.
No :picard2:.

[Vesuvian Sky]

Could you recommend any good books on this topic?

Sure:

The Horse, the Wheel, and Language (2007) David Anthony

Prehistoric Russia (1970) Tadeusz Sulimirski
(note: horribly dated but not too horrible in regards to understanding progression of archaeological thought concerning the steppes)

The Making of Bronze Age Eurasia (2007) Phillip Kohl
(note: I think this guy is pompous and full of it but he offers a "counter view" so to speak)

Okergrabkultur zwischen Dnper und Karpaten (1976) by A. Häusler
Okergrabkultur zwischen Ural und Dneper (1974) by A. Häusler
(note: concerns the Yamna culture and its development, categorization. Excellent plates and mapping but I don't care of Hausler's overall view on the matter)

Ancient Metallurgy in the USSR: the Early Metal Age (1992) by EN Chernykh
(note: still very relevant till this day and an excellent overview...you may actually want to start here first)

In Search of the Indo-Europeans (1989) by JP Mallory

The First Horseman (1975) by Frank Trippett

Epoka Bronzy Kavkasa (1994) by Kushareva, K. and Markovin, V. eds
(note: in Russian, concerns Bronze age Caucuses and relations to steppes)

This should get you going...

[archangel]

Horses were like tanks in ancient times whoever posses and breeds them get a step up from others

[poiuytrewq0987]

Hungary's love affair with Turkos is rather disgusting. I think for that reason precisely Hungarians should be immediately deported from Europe and the former Hungarian lands repopulated with Orthodox Christian Slavs.

[Proto-Shaman]

No :picard2:.
btw the languages of the Jazs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jassic_people) and Pechenegs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecheneg) were the same... What a pity you didn't know that before :picard1:

Welcome to Karachay-Balkar - Alania:
7-Pz76PEBqk
As-Alan People of Karachay-Balkaria, the real descendants of Alans (Sarmatian Turks)

These "Balkar" people together with their "Karachay" comrades are called "As" - "Alan". They are the descendants of an ancient Turkic tribe called Alans, a subgroup of Sarmatian Turks. The Digorians (another Karachay-Balkar clan) are a Türkic tribe assimilated by the South Ossetians. In present ethnography the apparently Turkic ethnonym ''Alan'' is wrongly attributed to Kartvelian-speaking Ossetians. It is outstanding that every link in the Iranian-Scythian theory is either a fraud or a blunder!

http://www.alaniya.info
http://www.real-alania.narod.ru

History of the Karachay-Balkar (Alan) people from the ancient times to joining Russia by I. M. Miziyev:
http://www.kcr.narod.ru/miziev/miz-e.htm

Alanian Issues:
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/24Alans/AlansEn.htm

Alans from 650 BC-1400 AD:
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/70_Dateline/alan_dateline_En.htm

Who are the Alans?
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/24Alans/WhoAreAlansEn.htm

Alans in Pyrenees:
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/24Alans/AlanAndRomanLanguagesEn.htm

[Szegedist]

Hungary's love affair with Turkos is rather disgusting. I think for that reason precisely Hungarians should be immediately deported from Europe and the former Hungarian lands repopulated with Orthodox Christian Slavs.

Hahahah, hahahah, hahaha joke of the day.
Anyway Ukrainian, stop hiding behind Slavism and embrace your Tatar and other Turkic heritage, most Ukrainians have it.

[Albion]

Even Swedes and Norwegians have DIRECT Centralasian ties :D
Dr. David K. Faux, The Genetic Link of the Viking – Era Norse to Central Asia: An Assessment of the Y Chromosome DNA, Archaeological, Historical and Linguistic Evidence, ©2004 – 2007 (http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/btn_Archeology/FauxDKGeneticLinkOfVikingEn.htm)

Original PDF (http://www.davidkfaux.org/CentralAsiaRootsofScandinavia-Y-DNAEvidence.pdf)


INDEED! WE ARE THE DESCANDANTS OF ATTILA!!!


Archaeological excavations have already shown the falsity of the so called theory of blue eyed or blonde Indo-European Nomads. Neither Herodotus nor Strabo identify Andronovo culture, Karasuk culture, Afanasevo culture, Timber Grave culture, Abashevo culture, Cimmerians, Saka/Scythians, Alekseyevka culture, Thracians, Thraco-Cimmerian, or even the Sigynnae, as Iranian. In contrast those cultural areas seem to be identical with the Turkic cultural sphere. Next thing is to pronounce Uralics as indigenous slightly mongoloid "Indo-Iranians" and propagate this thesis through scholarly scientific discourses and encyclopedias. Note that Russian Academy shoveled over hundreds of Andronov kurgans and thousands of burials, but did not get around to do a single DNA test in support of the "Indo-Iranian" speculations. Neither did the testing the "Indo-Iranian" proponents in the West, where DNA testing is as routine as a urine test. As long as the language of the populations is inferred from the silent shreds, the opposing facts are ignored, and selected anecdotal examples serve a proofs, the "Indo-Iranians" propaganda has a chance. The Andronovo culture is a kind of an ancient document, the very proof that puts Turkic People into the role of ancient Aryans, who were mythologized by Nazis in WW2 and by eurocentric racists in the 19th century. The concept about Andronov cultures belonging to the carriers of the Türkic-lingual ethnos were also postulated earlier (Tchernikov, 1957; Amanjolov, 1971, pp. 64-66; Amanjolov, 1975; Amanjolov, 1980). Now the numbers of scholars expressing this position gradually grows (Askarov, 1996, p. 71; Askarov, 2001, pp. 69-72; Askarov, 2002, p. 55; Askarov, 2004, p. 4-6; Hodjaev, 2003, pp. 176-184; Iskhakov, 2003, 7-12).
For further information visit: Middle Asian Ethnogenesis (http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/btn_Archeology/MiddleAsianEthnogenesisEn.htm)


Germanics formed as a fusion of Indo-Europeans and the aborigional inhabitants of Northern Europe before Turkics even came into existence. :picard1: Indo-Europeans are not "Turanians" and are a much more ancient group than Turkics, Turkics having spread out latter from North East Asia and taken a lot of IE lands.


Hungarians has no "weak culture". They are one of the oldest states in Europe and have one of the richest in history with imperial background.

It's a weak country with a small population, they're identifying with something bigger because they don't like being small and unimportant.


Laughing stock because of what? by thinking about alliance with Turks?

Not Turks, Turkics. Apart from the Turks themselves, the Turkics are mainly pathetic ethnicities such as Kazakhs and Uyghurs. Do they really want to shackle themselves to them instead of decent nations like Austria, Germany and Italy? Romania and Slovakia may not be much, but other nations around Hungary are a lot better than anything in Central Asia.
Who are they going to trade with? Which group will give them a higher standing in the world? Regardless of the EU, relations with Europe are better.

[Szegedist]

It's a weak country with a small population,
Yeah? And why is this? :rolleyes:

[Albion]

Yeah? And why is this? :rolleyes:

Because the Austro-Hungarian empire is over and Hungary has lost its occupied territories and is reduced to its actual ethnic boundaries (near enough). ;)

[Szegedist]

Hungary has lost its occupied territories and is reduced to its actual ethnic boundaries (near enough). ;)

Keep telling yourself that, and one day you might actually believe it.

[Albion]

Keep telling yourself that, and one day you might actually believe it.

What's up? Can't stand the truth? Hungarians inhabited a Southern Slovakia and much of Transylvania, but it's hardly a massive loss. You wouldn't have been a major country with a large population even if you kept these areas.
:bored:

[Szegedist]

What's up? Can't stand the truth? Hungarians inhabited a Southern Slovakia and much of Transylvania, but it's hardly a massive loss. You wouldn't have been a major country with a large population even if you kept these areas.
:bored:

Look Brit, keep to your own business, and leave a country (who I doubt you can find on the map) and it's affairs alone. What do you know about the region, something you read on Wikipedia, Mr Expert on Hungarian affairs and history? Who are you to tell us what is a massive loss or not, you don't know anything about it.

The fact that you say losing Transylvania (cradle of our nation) was not a "massive loss" shows how ignorant you are speaking about our matters.

[Dengizik]

What's up? Can't stand the truth? Hungarians inhabited a Southern Slovakia and much of Transylvania, but it's hardly a massive loss. You wouldn't have been a major country with a large population even if you kept these areas.
:bored:

Please leave Hungarians matters to Hungarians. You are being offensive.

[Albion]

Please leave Hungarians matters to Hungarians. You are being offensive.

Okay, if future I'll try not to hurt anyone's feelings with a dose of reality.

[Szegedist]

Okay, if future I'll try not to hurt anyone's feelings with a dose of reality.

Like I said, you know very little about the reality of the region, so leave it to us.

[Hoca]

Hahahah, hahahah, hahaha joke of the day.
Anyway Ukrainian, stop hiding behind Slavism and embrace your Tatar and other Turkic heritage, most Ukrainians have it.

Some Ukrainian look Turkic though, but there is considerable amount of Ukrainian who look slav.

[Proto-Shaman]

Germanics formed as a fusion of Indo-Europeans and the aborigional inhabitants of Northern Europe before Turkics even came into existence. :picard1:
What a childish statement :rolleyes: ...

“We have seen the social intermingling at the verge of forest and steppe through the eyes of Herodotus, who described the Germanic peoples, which he called the Budini, along with the Turkic Scythes, and the Sarmatians who comprised Scythian males and Finnish females called Amazons who spoke the language of Scythia, but not well according to Herodotus. There is no doubt that these Germanic, Finnish, Turkic peoples sat around each other's campfires, chewing the fat late into the night, chanting the epic stories, and singing of lost loves and civilizations. [...]. The word Yggdrasil, the Nordic Tree of Life, is a cognate with the Turkish words 'Yigac asil', meaning 'noble main tree'. This, like Tengri, was likely a contribution from Germanic to Turkic unless it is case of convergent evolution with the roots coming from a common earlier ancestor in Eurasian.”
Source: Carl J. Becker, A Modern Theory Of Language Evolution, iUniverse, 2004, p.357-359 (http://books.google.de/books?id=VpdXKpmaYLEC&pg=PA357&lpg=PA357&dq=We+have+seen+the+social+intermingling+at+the+ve rge+of+forest+and+steppe+through+the+eyes+of+Herod otus,+who+described+the+Germanic+peoples,+which+he +called+the+Budini,&source=bl&ots=vPbx-wOPxk&sig=AUSEeqOJ5nSyGpbk4acTzRUjmqU&hl=de&sa=X&ei=jLoDUfTAHsXNsgbL-4GgCg&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=We%20have%20seen%20the%20social%20intermingling% 20at%20the%20verge%20of%20forest%20and%20steppe%20 through%20the%20eyes%20of%20Herodotus%2C%20who%20d escribed%20the%20Germanic%20peoples%2C%20which%20h e%20called%20the%20Budini%2C&f=false)


"We hear of the name Turk in connexion with the Turkish invaders of Europe in the pre-Christian era. Pomponius Mela in the 1st cent. AD calls them Turcae and says that they live near the Budini, and Pliny the Elder in the same century uses the name Tyrcae of a people in the neighbourhood of the Don.”
Source: James Hastings, Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics , Teil 24, Kessinger Publishing, 2003, p.476 (http://books.google.de/books?id=xWIbAQAAMAAJ&q=We+hear+of+the+name+Turk+in+connexion+with+the+T urkish+invaders+of+Europe+in+the+pre-Christian+era.+Pomponius+Mela+in+the+1st+cent.+AD+ calls+them+Turcae+and+says+that+they+live+near+the +Budini,&dq=We+hear+of+the+name+Turk+in+connexion+with+the+ Turkish+invaders+of+Europe+in+the+pre-Christian+era.+Pomponius+Mela+in+the+1st+cent.+AD+ calls+them+Turcae+and+says+that+they+live+near+the +Budini,&hl=de&sa=X&ei=urwDUYabGYnGtQbs3YHoCA&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA)


"In reality, under various names the Türks lived long before our era in the Eastern, even in the Western Europe, in Asia Minor, Near East, Central Asia, Western Siberia."
Source: M. Zakiev, Origin of Türks and Tatars, Vol. 1: Origin of Türks, Moscow, 2001, p.29 (http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/20Roots/ZakievGenesis/ZakievGenesis19-42En.htm)

....

There is also a couple of archaeological, genetic and linguistic evidence that Odin and his "Asiaman Tyrk" people were indeed Turks.


Indo-Europeans are not "Turanians" and are a much more ancient group than Turkics, Turkics having spread out latter from North East Asia and taken a lot of IE lands.
Seriously man, this is sooo childish again :rolleyes: "Turanian" is what Western schoolars called "Ural-Altaic" mainly from 17th c. to 1940's. Read it up on Google Books. Various Hungarian and Turkic schoolars are still continueing to use this unfairly "out-daited" formulation. Whatever the case...

“The term 'Turan', from which Turanian is derived, is so Asiatic that we do not find it in the Greek authors, though the fact that it occurs in the Avesta in the form 'Tura' points to its ancient origin. It is said in the Avesta that Thraetona had three sons, Airya (Arya), who received as his portion Iran; Sairima, who received the western lands; and Tura, to whom fell the oriental lands. Again, Tuirya (Turya) is used in the Avesta as an epithet applied to the countries now called Turanian. The people of Tuirya are spoken of as enemies of the people of Airya. Another reference is found in the epic of the Persian poet Firdusi, the Sháh Naméh dating from the tenth century A.D.; a prominent figure in this work, the Turkic Khan Afrásiyáb, is said to have reigned over Tura in the sixth century B.C., and to have been the great foe of Iran. In this poem Turan is placed in the north of Iran. [...]. Like the term Aryan, 'Turanian' is used chiefly as a linguistic term, equivalent to 'Ural-Altaic' linguistic group."
Source: Marie Antoinette Czaplicka, The Turks of Central Asia in History and at the Present Day, Elibron, 2010, p.18-19 (http://books.google.de/books?id=SvsiRZIpUCQC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=The+term+%27Turan%27,+from+which+Turanian+is+de rived,+is+so+Asiatic+that+we+do+not+find+it+in+the +Greek+authors,+though+the+fact+that+it+occurs+in+ the+Avesta+in+the+form+%27Tura%27+points+to+its+an cient+origin.&source=bl&ots=4AGXXz-6Xu&sig=kXf3Z4mJAytRKTTg8BDdd3_JTng&hl=de&sa=X&ei=UcIDUayTCYzAtAbzsYC4AQ&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20term%20%27Turan%27%2C%20from%20which%20Tur anian%20is%20derived%2C%20is%20so%20Asiatic%20that %20we%20do%20not%20find%20it%20in%20the%20Greek%20 authors%2C%20though%20the%20fact%20that%20it%20occ urs%20in%20the%20Avesta%20in%20the%20form%20%27Tur a%27%20points%20to%20its%20ancient%20origin.&f=false)


Supporters of Altaic formerly set the date of the Proto-Altaic language at around 4000 BC, but today at around 5000 BC (Starotsin et al. 2003) or 6000 BC (Kuz'mina 2007: 364). This would make it a language family about as old as Indo-European (4000 to 7,000 BC according to several hypotheses cited in Mallory 1997: 106) but considerably younger than Afroasiatic (c. 10,000 BC according to Diakonoff 1988: 33n, 11,000 to 16,000 BC according to Ehret 2002: 35–36).
Source: Altaic languages - Macro-Altaic Urheimat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic_languages#Macro-Altaic_Urheimat)


"According to the linguists, the Proto-Turks belonged to the Altaic language macro-family which had separated from the Nostratic unity in the 6th millenium BC. Their homeland has been hypothetically localized in the Altai Mountains (Ramstedt 1957; Poppe 1965; Baskakov 1962; 1969, 2nd ed.)"
Source: Elena E. Kuz'mina, Elena Efimovna Kuzʹmina, J. P. Mallory: The Origin of the Indo-Iranians, BRILL, 2007, p.364 (http://books.google.de/books?id=x5J9rn8p2-IC&pg=PA364&lpg=PA364&dq=According+to+the+linguists,+the+Proto-Turks+belonged+to+the+Altaic+language+macro-family+which+had+separated+from+the+Nostratic+unit y+in+the+6th+millenium+BC.&source=bl&ots=VNYmI5depE&sig=oPDHfQi8S1ZFVv8DRP1yM-6UEjw&hl=de&sa=X&ei=QbwDUYHVMMfE4gTT-4D4Dg&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=According%20to%20the%20linguists%2C%20the%20Prot o-Turks%20belonged%20to%20the%20Altaic%20language%20 macro-family%20which%20had%20separated%20from%20the%20No stratic%20unity%20in%20the%206th%20millenium%20BC.&f=false)


"The mythology of the Altaian Turks, for example, is so nearly identical with that of the early Scandinavians that some close association in the not far distant past is necessary. Furthermore, the ritual of the horse sacrifice is so integral a part of the religion of both Indo-European and Altaic-speaking peoples that recent diffusion alone cannot explain the identity."
Source: Carleton Stevens Coon, The races of Europe, Greenwood Press, 1972 , p.179 (http://books.google.de/books?id=aaAqAAAAYAAJ&q=The+mythology+of+the+Altaian+Turks,+for+example, +is+so+nearly+identical+with+that+of+the+early+Sca ndinavians&dq=The+mythology+of+the+Altaian+Turks,+for+example ,+is+so+nearly+identical+with+that+of+the+early+Sc andinavians&hl=de&sa=X&ei=GL8DUfiwO4WSswaj24CgDQ&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA)

From: The Turks, Volume 1: Early Ages (http://getcited.com/cits/PP/1/PUB/103406935):
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=715&pictureid=5478


Not Turks, Turkics. Apart from the Turks themselves, the Turkics are mainly pathetic ethnicities such as Kazakhs and Uyghurs. Do they really want to shackle themselves to them instead of decent nations like Austria, Germany and Italy? Romania and Slovakia may not be much, but other nations around Hungary are a lot better than anything in Central Asia.
OsihUADUhvQ


Regardless of the EU, relations with Europe are better.
EU is in my mind bad for Europe at all, since this "union" is destroying the sovereignty of European nations.

[Albion]

What a childish statement :rolleyes: ...

Citing real history is childish now? :picard1:


Seriously man, this is sooo childish again :rolleyes: "Turanian" is that Western schoolars called "Ural-Altaic" mainly from 17th c. to 1940's. Read it up on Google Books. Various Hungarian and Turkic schoolars are still continueing to use this unfairly "out-daited" formulation. Whatever the case...

Ural-Altaic is an unproven hypothesis, why do you talk about it as if it's established facts?

[Proto-Shaman]

Citing real history is childish now? :picard1:
What kind of wanna be real history did you cite? Didn't see any...


Ural-Altaic is an unproven hypothesis, why do you talk about it as if it's established facts?
Between 17th c. to 1940's it was fact. What's your problem with this?

[Albion]

What kind of wanna be real history did you cite? Didn't see any...


Between 17th c. to 1940's it was fact. What's your problem with this?

Because anyone with money could publish wacky theories in the past as anyone with internet today can do so on the internet. Most of these old theories were abandoned because there was no proof for them and they were greatly exaggerated by people with an agenda.

[gregorius]

Of course it has to do with geopoltics and economics too. Not only blood and culture.

I think Hungarians are trying to have better relationship with Turks. Recently they released an Azeri prisoner who killed an Armenian. Armenians got very angry about this but the Armeian who was killed insulted the Azeri guy which family was killed by Armenians in Karabakh massacre.
http://www.thedaily.hu/government-defends-azeri-prisoner-transfer/

Turkish behaviour, insulting gives you the right to kill a guy in his sleep with an axe. You think that ugly azeri didnt insult him? you think he just sat and cried ?

I bet if he took him 1 on 1 he would get his face fucked from this earth thats why he did his job like a coward.

its not like the hungarian people where actually happy with this deal of the goverment.

ps they didnt released him, the bought him free

[Proto-Shaman]

Because anyone with money could publish wacky theories in the past as anyone with internet today can do so on the internet. Most of these old theories were abandoned because there was no proof for them and they were greatly exaggerated by people with an agenda.
Very interesting. So the same with Aryans right?

[Albion]

Very interesting. So the same with Aryans right?

Right.

[Proto-Shaman]

Right.
So then why IE-theorie still exists? :rolleyes:

[Géza]

Stop with the genetics spam already. Geez, I am supposed to be the blood-worshippin' evil Nazi here. Yet, I reiterate: cultural and national association goes way beyond mere bloodlines.

I suggest to you go Moscow and live among your favourite Central-Asian brothers. :)



Whether or not we're related to (and not descended from, BTW) the Huns is irrelevant.

Is it irrelevant? Why do we care with this?


The Turanic identity is a foundation of our national spirit, and it has been for a millenium. Turks may have been our enemies for four centuries out of this, but none of the animosity remains today.

Turanic identity is a foundation of your Turanist spirit. I can live my Hungarian life without this brain cancer. We have some Central-Asian root, blood and cultural things too, but these are just one part of our ancestry and cultural heritage.

I don't think about Turkish as enemy, but those folks' imperialism destroyed our country. And I don't like rest of our country became Dönerland like our western neighbour's.




Our ancient legend (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunor_and_Magor) speaks of the two hunters, Hunor and Magor, sons of Nimród, who rode out with their people on an epic hunt in pursuit of the Wonder Stag, eventually settling in the West and founding the nations of the Huns and Magyars (Hungarians). For a thousand years, there was no doubt where we came from.

The Wonder Stag is a ancient Scythian totem, but it was used by the Anceint Germans too. These names Hunor and Magor clearly made by the medieval Chroniclers. In those time everybody want descended ownself from the more ancient times. The Frank kings descended ownselvez from the Troyans, the Habsburgs from a Roman noble family, our medieval kings inventid this story. This stories strongly based on medieval politics. But you and many other Turanist put out these Chronics from their real historical context.



Why should we turn down the friendship of those who claim the heritage of Attila? Why should we cripple ourselves in a time when rightful Hungarian nationalism is the boogeyman of every European country?

Attila's people was a Germano-Turkic conglomerations. The Huns conquer the Ostrogoths and they had started mix of them. Attila's name means "Fatherle" "Little Father" in Gothic, be cause "Atta" means father like as the Hungarian "Atya". Should we descend from the Visigoths? :D The -la diminutiv suffix is similar to German -el (-le, -l, -li,), Latin -lus, -la, -lum suffix like as Mädel or Calculus.

We have assimilate the remanis of the Huns, but it doesn't mean we would be Huns.



These Turanics with their Kurultaj and haushold humanbiologists and linguists just are a so laud minority of us. We have not a word "Kurultaj", it is a joke. But they got 60 million HUF (Hungarian Forint) for their Turanist happening from our debt, this is not joke. :picard1:

This man is the spirit of the Hungarian Turanist movement, Bíró András Zsolt humanbiologist. I belivie this Italian-look guy desn't deal with his ancestors was mostly Bakanics and/or Italian, hence they has found other relationship. :picard1:

http://kuruc.info/galeriaN/egyeb/bazs1106011.jpg

Nowadays he use to bring nice darky Asians from this Kurultaj, side by side they insult Gypsy's with their own South-Asian racial features "hiperpigmentált" "hyperpigemnted", "réti néger" "filed nigger" (dark pigmentations, archaic traits).

http://bagyinszki.eu/galleries/kurultaj_1/kurultaj_1_15.jpg



Side by side these guys are "evil non-relative outlander dirty slavic untermenschen".

:2headsalt:

http://www.delnickelisty.cz/userFiles/10213187-slovenska-pospolitost.jpg

[Cail]

So then why IE-theorie still exists? :rolleyes:

Because IE is a proven scientific theory. Proven by dozens of prominent linguists and anthropologists in hundres of peer-reviewed studies. Ural-Altaic is just an outdated XIXc bullshit that noone in the scientific community takes seriously today. Even the Altaic family itself (and it's constituents) is questionable, though much more accepted than the Ural-Altaic nonsense. If anything, Indo-Uralic is currently on the rise (slowly gathering support).

[Vesuvian Sky]

Because IE is a proven scientific theory. Proven by dozens of prominent linguists and anthropologists in hundres of peer-reviewed studies. Ural-Altaic is just an outdated XIXc bullshit that noone in the scientific community takes seriously today. Even the Altaic family itself (and it's constituents) is questionable, though much more accepted than the Ural-Altaic nonsense.

Altaic is questionable how so? Do you mean that its because let's say Turkish has influence from external sources but also the way Japanese and Korean don't completely fit which have always been questionable outliers anyway?

I'd imagine Mongolian languages, Kazakh, Tatar, are fairly close and have similar grammar.

[Szegedist]

I suggest to you go Moscow and live among your favourite Central-Asian brothers. :)
And you should go to Pozsony, upps sorry I dont mean to upset our Slavic brothers, the correct name is Bratislava ;), and live among your favourite Slavic brothers.




I don't think about Turkish as enemy, but those folks' imperialism destroyed our country. And I don't like rest of our country became Dönerland like our western neighbour's.


I agree.



Side by side these guys are "evil non-relative outlander dirty slavic untermenschen".

:2headsalt:

http://www.delnickelisty.cz/userFiles/10213187-slovenska-pospolitost.jpg
Do you know what this orgonisation does, their beliefs?? And these are our friends and brothers according to you? Is Slota also your Slavic brother???

We already know your opposition to Trianon revision, so this was to be expected, your types rather betray Hungarians in surrounding countries so you don't upset and insult our neigbouring "brothers" :eek::eek: :mad:

It is your type that is the problem, types that call Transylvanian Hungarians "half Romanians", and call my Csángó friends Gypsies, because they are not stuck up idiots from Buda Hills with their Judapest mentality.

[Cail]

Altaic is questionable how so? Do you mean that its because let's say Turkish has influence from external sources but also the way Japanese and Korean don't completely fit which have always been questionable outliers anyway?

I'd imagine Mongolian languages, Kazakh, Tatar, are fairly close and have similar grammar.

It is questionable because the close relations between Turkic, Mongolic and Tungusic languages (that are the core of the proposed Altaic family) are not exactly proven and up to debate.

Despite what you imagine, Mongolic languages are very, very distant from Turkic. They have a lot in common due to areal contacts, but actual cognates are much fewer than one would expect. If there is indeed an actual genetic relationship between the two families, it is much deeper (more ancient) than the relation between, say, Indo-European languages.

I (as a linguist) personally am in favor of the Altaic family, but as a very low level fylum, meaning that the split occured very long time ago, not that far removed from the very ancient Eurasian macrofamily (that includes IE, Uralic and Altaic). Seems probable that after the initial Eurasian split there was a short common Indo-Uralic continuity (that later split into IE and Uralic) and a longer Altaic one (that later split into Mongolic, Tungusic and Turkic). The placement of Korean-Japanese in these scheme is not clear, many argue that was a part of the Altaic continuity but split off of it earlier than the major three families.

Anyway, at such levels of depth actual facts are very hard to establish, linguistic science is currently at an early stage of developing methodology for such deep "chrono-dives".

[Albion]

So then why IE-theorie still exists? :rolleyes:

Because IE languages, religions and genes existed. A separate, distinctive Aryan race did not - they were just "Caucasians" like modern Europeans and the inhabitants before them. Thus "Aryan" as a term should stay in South Asia where it belongs as a classification for Indian and Iranian languages.

[Windischer]

i just click to see this thread out of curiosity and what dont i see?
a photo of slovak retardist organization march :D by the way, do you know they are actually in conflict with the drunkard from zsolna (jan slota)? well theyre in conflict practically with everybody else :D

i must say i more or less agree with previous post made by géza, these turanic, tamil etc things are just fancy things for frustrated etc. in slovakia some "pseudohistorians" invented story about ancient slovak empire in connection with indian tamils :picard2: get real people, history doesnt influence penis growth :D

[poiuytrewq0987]

Hungarians are Magyarized Slavs just like Romanians are Latinized Slavs.

[poiuytrewq0987]

And you are what? A monkey that learnt to type?
Than you for your low IQ clueless input.

Where were the Magyars at the time of Slavs/Bulgarians in Pannonia? Still in Bessarabia as can be seen on the map below.

http://www.ecotourkumani.eu/files/Old_map_Tsar_%20Simeon_the_Great.jpg

http://debian.fmi.uni-sofia.bg/~nikola1/Bul/802-970.gif

[poiuytrewq0987]

Bulgarians were in Pannonia long before the Magyars. The countless number of Bulgarians there got Magyarized by Hungarians.

http://www.explore-bulgaria.net/explore-bulgaria/images/history/map-asparuh-tervel.jpg

[Szegedist]

Except that at the time, Bulgarians were not Slavs, but still Bulgars.
And Pannonia was inhabited by a mixed Avar-Slavic population.
And who was there before Avar-Slavs? Huns, Celts, Ilyrians, etc.

So I dont see your point? You dont have a clue about what you are talking about.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Except that at the time, Bulgarians were not Slavs, but still Bulgars.
And Pannonia was inhabited by a mixed Avar-Slavic population.
And who was there before Avar-Slavs? Huns, Celts, Ilyrians, etc.

So I dont see your point? You dont have a clue about what you are talking about.

Nope. The Slavs in Pannonia had a Bulgarian consciousness.

[Szegedist]

Nope. The Slavs in Pannonia had a Bulgarian consciousness.

I thought it was "Great Moravic", the greatest state ever to exist?. :p

And I would like to see some actual proof, you are simply posting maps about a topic you obviously know little about.

[Proto-Shaman]

Because IE is a proven scientific theory. Proven by dozens of prominent linguists and anthropologists in hundres of peer-reviewed studies. Ural-Altaic is just an outdated XIXc bullshit that noone in the scientific community takes seriously today. Even the Altaic family itself (and it's constituents) is questionable, though much more accepted than the Ural-Altaic nonsense. If anything, Indo-Uralic is currently on the rise (slowly gathering support).
As for me, I don't believe in this "Altaic" thing at all. I also don't believe in "Indo-European". I believe in this:

IEs & Altaics are non-existent (http://www.haluktarcan.com/UserFiles/Image/hintavrupafr.JPG), according to CNRS (http://www.cnrs.fr/en/aboutCNRS/overview.htm). According to the Prof's and Dr's of this most remarkable institute French, Turkish and Manchurian are found within the same linguistic upperclass. Seriously...

Edit: ... the article is up-to-date (2000 or sth like that)

[Albion]

As for me, I don't believe in this "Altaic" thing at all. I also don't believe in "Indo-European". I believe in this:

IEs & Altaics are non-existent (http://www.haluktarcan.com/UserFiles/Image/hintavrupafr.JPG), according to CNRS (http://www.cnrs.fr/en/aboutCNRS/overview.htm). According to the Prof's and Dr's of this most remarkable institute French, Turkish and Manchurian are found within the same linguistic upperclass. Seriously...

Your opinion alone is unimportant, it's what historians, archaeologists, linguists and geneticists in general think that is important.

[Loki]

i just click to see this thread out of curiosity and what dont i see?
a photo of slovak retardist organization march :D by the way, do you know they are actually in conflict with the drunkard from zsolna (jan slota)? well theyre in conflict practically with everybody else :D

i must say i more or less agree with previous post made by géza, these turanic, tamil etc things are just fancy things for frustrated etc. in slovakia some "pseudohistorians" invented story about ancient slovak empire in connection with indian tamils :picard2: get real people, history doesnt influence penis growth :D

You know what those Slovaks of yours do ... they take Franz Liszt and Bela Bartok - who were Hungarian - for Slovak history :picard2:

[Proto-Shaman]

Hungarians are Magyarized Slavs...
:picard1:


Except that at the time, Bulgarians were not Slavs, but still Bulgars.
And Pannonia was inhabited by a mixed Avar-Slavic population.
And who was there before Avar-Slavs? Huns, Celts, Ilyrians, etc.

So I dont see your point? You dont have a clue about what you are talking about.
I concur:

“Equestrian, stock-breeding populations of Central-Asian origin, people of the Avar Empire had a great role in the formation of the Slav population of the the Balkan peninsula.”
Source: Endre Czeizel, Heide-G. Benkmann, H. Werner Goedde, Genetics of the Hungarian population: ethnic aspects, genetic markers, ecogenetics and disease spectrum, Springer Verlag, 1991, p.96 (http://books.google.de/books?id=87-wAAAAIAAJ&q=to+be+anthropologically+the+closest+to+the+Hunga rian+people,+are+the+Turanid,+the+Pamirian+and+the +East-Mediterranean+%28Ginzburg+1966%29.&dq=to+be+anthropologically+the+closest+to+the+Hung arian+people,+are+the+Turanid,+the+Pamirian+and+th e+East-Mediterranean+%28Ginzburg+1966%29.&hl=de&sa=X&ei=Dez1UL30CIKs4AS-2ICAAw&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Europe_around_650.jpg

[Windischer]

You know what those Slovaks of yours do ... they take Franz Liszt and Bela Bartok - who were Hungarian - for Slovak history :picard2:

i dont know how its connected with this thread or my post :D
anyway my answer
http://theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1318578&postcount=10

p. s. why are you so sure am slovak? that panel with profile information under posters name is there for a purpose :D

[Proto-Shaman]

Your opinion alone is unimportant, it's what historians, archaeologists, linguists and geneticists in general think that is important.
Never ever... I hate mainstream :rolleyes: following mainstream means being part of the matrix, which already exists.

[Cail]

Never ever... I hate mainstream :rolleyes: following mainstream means being part of the matrix, which already exists.

Yeah! Fuck mainstream! I've always wanted 2+2=5! Say no to the matrix! Sumerians were Turanic too!

[Proto-Shaman]

Yeah! Fuck mainstream! I've always wanted 2+2=5! Say no to the matrix! Sumerians were Turanic too!
:picard1::picard1::picard1::picard1::picard1:
:picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2:

your statemeant is ready for off-topic... you are behaving like a child :thumb001:
can't argue? stop writing.

[superhorn]

Hungarian is one of the three Ugrian languages of the Finno-Ugrian languages . It is not a Finnic language .
The other two Ugrian languages are the Khant and Mansi of western Siberia,
which are endangered . The Finno-Ugrian languages are also related the Samoyedic languages of Siberia, including the Nenets language .

[gregorius]

Never ever... I hate mainstream :rolleyes: following mainstream means being part of the matrix, which already exists.

you watch too much movies,
instead you should learn what a matrix is

[Cail]

Hungarian is one of the three Ugrian languages of the Finno-Ugrian languages . It is not a Finnic language .
The other two Ugrian languages are the Khant and Mansi of western Siberia,
which are endangered . The Finno-Ugrian languages are also related the Samoyedic languages of Siberia, including the Nenets language .

What's more interesting is that Hungarian and Mansi are actually more closely related (historicaly) than Mansi and Khanty are. Mansi and Khanty reconverged later though, due to areal contacts.

[Proto-Shaman]

you watch too much movies,
instead you should learn what a matrix is
Still believing in politicians? :picard2:

[gregorius]

Still believing in politicians? :picard2:

you dont get my point

[Proto-Shaman]

you dont get my point
I do not mean the film matrix :rolleyes: I mean the real life matrix. So far understandable? And btw I have no TV.

[Windischer]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Europe_around_650.jpg

nonsense. why?
any attempt to draw exact borders of entities like avar kaganate must fail.
max we can do is map down archeological remnants of avar (avaroslavic) settlement. for example as far as i know, northernmost avar archeological site is near lemešany, which is like few km by straight line from my home, but the map puts borders of avar "kingdom" (they had no king, but kagan) farther to north, to outer carpathians. which only shows how much authors know (knew) about geography of region, local archaeological sites and kingdoms (lol) :thumb001:

[gregorius]

A matrix is a collection of numbers.
So you dont have to use fancy words which are completely nonsense.
A real life matrix :picard1: You dont have to act like you are a smart guy.

[Szegedist]

Anyway, this anti-turanist propaganda has one good side.
According to it, Hungarians are just a Hungarian speaking Slavs, Romanians, Germanics, , I see no reason why we cannot be in the same country again, we are the same people, same culture, same genes, so we belong together, call it Karpatian Federation, Greater Hungary, whatever you like.

[Cail]

Anyway, this anti-turanist propaganda has one good side.
According to it, Hungarians are just a Hungarian speaking Slavs, Romanians, Germanics, , I see no reason why we cannot be in the same country again, we are the same people, same culture, same genes, so we belong together, call it Karpatian Federation, Greater Hungary, whatever you like.

Why not Greater Romania lol? Why would they (those Slavs, Romanians etc) want to separate from their nation states and become a part of some multinational/multilingual artificial entity?

What is it with people and their imperial ambitions, why would you want a big state? If anything, confederations of small states work better for the economy and conflict resolution. Switzerland, the Benelux - these are the role models, not some "Greater something" Blob that would only serve the purpose of someone's ambitions.

[Szegedist]

Why not Greater Romania lol? Why would they (those Slavs, Romanians etc) want to separate from their nation states and become a part of some multinational/multilingual artificial entity?
It is not an artificial entity, but a historic and ancient entity, unlike a so called "Slovakia" or so called "Romania".



not some "Greater something" Blob that would only serve the purpose of someone's ambitions.
In reality it is not "Greater" but normal sized.

[Corvus]

Why not Greater Romania lol? Why would they (those Slavs, Romanians etc) want to separate from their nation states and become a part of some multinational/multilingual artificial entity?

What is it with people and their imperial ambitions, why would you want a big state? If anything, confederations of small states work better for the economy and conflict resolution. Switzerland, the Benelux - these are the role models, not some "Greater something" Blob that would only serve the purpose of someone's ambitions.

Great Romania ambiotions already exist since a very long time.

The original Romanian term, "România Mare", or Great Romania, carried irredentist overtones, used in the sense of re-integration of the territories that shared Romanian language and culture. The term became more common after the Treaty of Versailles, when the attachment of Transylvania to the Kingdom of Romania occurred as a result of the Treaty of Trianon; thus the Kingdom of Romania under King Ferdinand I came to include all provinces with an ethnic Romanian majority, by comparison with the previous Romanian Old Kingdom under King Carol I, which did not include the provinces of Transylvania, Bessarabia and Bukovina. An alternative name for "România Mare", coined at the same time, was in the Romanian language "România Întregită" (roughly translated in English as "Romania Made Whole," or "Entire Romania"). "România Mare" was seen (and is also now seen by the great majority of the Romanian people, both at home and abroad) as the 'true', whole Romanian state, or the "Holy Grail of Romanian nationalism

[Hoca]

Hungarians have my full unconditional support

[Proto-Shaman]

nonsense. why?
any attempt to draw exact borders of entities like avar kaganate must fail.
max we can do is map down archeological remnants of avar (avaroslavic) settlement. for example as far as i know, northernmost avar archeological site is near lemešany, which is like few km by straight line from my home, but the map puts borders of avar "kingdom" (they had no king, but kagan) farther to north, to outer carpathians. which only shows how much authors know (knew) about geography of region, local archaeological sites and kingdoms (lol) :thumb001:
Relevance here? :confused:


A matrix is a collection of numbers.
So you dont have to use fancy words which are completely nonsense.
A real life matrix :picard1: You dont have to act like you are a smart guy.
What a childish way of gossip.. but tell me legendary member, why? :picard1:


Anyway, this anti-turanist propaganda has one good side.
According to it, Hungarians are just a Hungarian speaking Slavs, Romanians, Germanics, , I see no reason why we cannot be in the same country again, we are the same people, same culture, same genes, so we belong together, call it Karpatian Federation, Greater Hungary, whatever you like.
Completely agree! this would be the most wise act.

[Windischer]

relevance? you posted a flawed and misleading map.

[Proto-Shaman]

relevance? you posted a flawed and misleading map.
Find a better one ;)

[Windischer]

theres no need for fancy english painted maps

if you want a map:
archaeological findings from late avar period - northern periphery of avar/avaroslavic settlement
http://i49.tinypic.com/b4c7rn.jpg

edit: i even marked lemešany for you

[Lena]

Is it? Can you give me some proof please? Has Jobbik asked Turkey to help invade Serbia? :rofl: :picard2:

No, we are not counting on it, they have their own issues, the most we could expect is a supply of arms, but that is probably it.

However, it would be nice, and I would not reject it, we do not count on it.


Are you getting ready to invade Serbia here, or only asking Turks to send more goods to Szeged flea market? Mind boggling... lol!

[Proto-Shaman]

theres no need for fancy english painted maps

if you want a map:
archaeological findings from late avar period - northern periphery of avar/avaroslavic settlement
http://i49.tinypic.com/b4c7rn.jpg

edit: i even marked lemešany for you
Actually, I can't decipher the map :confused: Can you explain the map above a bit more?

And how about this map?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Historical_map_of_the_Balkans_around_582-612_AD.jpg

[Windischer]

whats difficult about that? it shows northern avaroslavic settlement in late avar period
if you cant decipher that and need neat colorful images to understand things, it says more about you than about the map :D

[Loki]

whats difficult about that? it shows northern avaroslavic settlement in late avar period
if you cant decipher that and need neat colorful images to understand things, it says more about you than about the map :D

No it doesn't. Nobody can 'decipher' the map except you. And do you have anything against English maps?

[Proto-Shaman]

Sumerians were Turanic too!
When you don't know anything don't post things with which you are not familiar. :picard1:

[Windischer]

whats so hard to decipher? black rectangles are findings on northern border of avar-controlled area from late avaric period. black lines are rivers. light gray and dark gray areas are hills and mountains. its a standard black/white map.
the map is focused on northwestern pannonia, with western carpathians in the north, east alps in west, the black thing in western half is lake balaton.
western part is dominated by danube, eastern by tisa.
the map is clear if one has idea about regions geography. if not, kipchak hakan can apply his own words to himself :D

the 2nd map posted by kipchak hakan here is flawed, because northern borders of orange area marked as "avars" dont correspond with northernmost avaric settlements and eastern borders seem to miraculously ignore carpathian arc. i wont comment rest because am not really familiar with that.
moreover, borders of such entities like avar kaganate was, werent clear enough to mark them as a neat line on a map.
i dont have anything against english maps per se, but this kind that is usually posted on such forums is usually notoriously inaccurate :)

[Proto-Shaman]

Some more maps:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Slavic_peoples_9c_map.jpg

Avars (grey arrow + green lines)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/East_europe_5-6cc.png

[Windischer]

:D:D both are different from what you posted previously :D
the russian one seems to be based on archeological knowledge, which is good
the english one isnt, and it shows area inhabited by slovaks - slovaks as a tribe or an ethnic group didnt exist in 8th-9th century. so thats one factual mistake at least.

(edited)

[Albion]

When you don't know anything don't post things with which you are not familiar. :picard1:

I think he was being sarcastic.

[Partizan]

I stopped in 10.th page but from what I've observed, who oppose Turkish-Hungarian kinship are...

1.One Eurocentrist Brit.
2.Two Balkan Slavs who are actually not really anti-Turk but have slight biases on Turks.
3.Some Slavo-Tatars who have identity crisis...

Anyway... A tribute to Hungarians here:


*Nővér Hero magyarok

Öntött tetején fekete föld újra
Turan magyarok dicső hős vér!
Re-írta a legtöbb dicsőséges történelme,
Epic a bátorság!

Halál az ország, a legszebb halál,
Halálesetek vahtanını egy verseny, hogy.
Arpad'ın Nation bizonyosan meghalt,
Annak ellenére, hogy az ezer él!

Moszkovita nemzet állományok Swamp!
Magyarok mutatott Turanlılık dicsőség!
Ezer meghalt ... A halál nem veszi a verés,
Yüceltmektir dicsőség!

Hüseyin Nihal ATSIZ

Megjegyzés: Atsız bég, duygulanarak magyarok lázadás a szovjetek ellen 1956-ban, a magyar hazafi és barátja Törökország, Prof.. Imre írta ezt a verset szentelt trónra.

Sorry for lame Google Translate :)

[Albion]

1.One Eurocentrist Brit.

I guess that's me then? :rolleyes: One is not Eurocentric simply because they do not agree with your romantic pipe dreams.


2.Two Balkan Slavs who are actually not really anti-Turk but have slight biases on Turks.

Or maybe they just see that Turanism is flawed?


3.Some Slavo-Tatars who have identity crisis...

:bored: They're not 'Slavo-Tatars' simply because you say so.

[Partizan]

I guess that's me then? :rolleyes: One is not Eurocentric simply because they do not agree with your romantic pipe dreams.

How did you know :rolleyes: Anyway, denying Hungary has more things to do than their neighbors. Even they have a Turanist political past.


Or maybe they just see that Turanism is flawed?

One of them being avid pan-Slavist and seeing Turanism as flawed is just an... Oxymoron.


:bored: They're not 'Slavo-Tatars' simply because you say so.

Let me correct so, a bunch of Slavo-Thracians with a Turkic name. Anyway, they might believe their ancestors were pure aryans from Pamir, however...

W71uQgZOuhI

[Albion]

How did you know :rolleyes: Anyway, denying Hungary has more things to do than their neighbors. Even they have a Turanist political past.



One of them being avid pan-Slavist and seeing Turanism as flawed is just an... Oxymoron.



Let me correct so, a bunch of Slavo-Thracians with a Turkic name. Anyway, they might believe their ancestors were pure aryans from Pamir, however...

W71uQgZOuhI

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69538

[Partizan]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69538

I know this discussion and I will re-join after going back to İstanbul. Actually I am in my family's house in Aksaray now, unfortunately I forget my "arsenal" for discussion(personal laptop with a lotta links, documents etc. saved in it, underlined and annotated books, articles etc. etc.) I'll back in weekend.

Until then, I am just having warm-up exercises :p

[Proto-Shaman]

I think he was being sarcastic.
The thing is, its true, but he seems to be unknowing regarding the history of classification.

[Proto-Shaman]

We are the grandsons of Attila as well!

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/544151_623600564322747_1728705961_n.jpg

[Dengizik]

http://ultrasliberi.hu/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/isztambul2.jpg
http://ultrasliberi.hu/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/isztambul1-500x375.jpg
http://ultrasliberi.hu/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/isztambul3-500x375.jpg

[Baluarte]

Turkey works for NATO, and the Anglo-American hegemony.

The same hegemony that crushed Hungary several times.

[Szegedist]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/6319_10151630000579623_1896199954_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/482747_10151630000959623_1481254181_n.jpg

[Szegedist]

Turkey works for NATO, and the Anglo-American hegemony.


So do most countries in Europe, including Hungary itself. By your logic we must distance ourselves away from all NATO countries.

[Baluarte]

True. There is a difference though.

Turkey is an structural ally of Israel, and that can never change.

[Hoca]

True. There is a difference though.

Turkey is an structural ally of Israel, and that can never change.

You have to find a new fetish.

[Hajdu]

Some Hungarians today are Turanid genetically, others (most) are not because they descend from Magyarized Slav, German and Balkan people. But the culture is Turanian.