Does your Paternal lineage determine your tribe?

[7eleven]

Does your Y Dna or Paternal lineage determine what tribe you are a member of?

[Tropico]

I dont think the Balkan peoples would accept me into their "tribe", so no. lol

[Jackson]

It may determine what tribes your direct paternal line came from hundreds or thousands of years ago, but not your current identity - or at least not on it's own. Although it would be entertaining to make R1b, R1a tribes etc - With flags and camps and things xD.

Although it determines your membership to a tribe known as men. :P

[Vesuvian Sky]

It determines your ancestral paternal line and can potentially tell you what "tribe" or ethnicity your paternal line is from but not necessarily always unequivocally.

Autosomal DNA really represents what you are by ethnicity or what you inherited based on ethnic makeup. Its the tiny bit of your overall DNA that makes you unique from others based on your entire pedigree and not just maternal-paternal lines.

But everything does tell you a little something about yourself, that is mtDNA, Y-DNA and of course your autosomal components.

[larali]

My paternal lineage is German but I have only .3 % French/German DNA according to Ancestry Composition. Granted, a lot of it might be mixed in with Nonspecific Northern Euro, but English makes up the majority of my heritage. Also, I'd consider my "tribe" to be old stock American, but I understand Americans are a different case than Europeans.

Anyway, my answer would be no.

[Albion]

I don't think R1a East Europeans are suddenly going to befriend R1a Indians and treat them like brothers, so no. There's more to it than haplogroups.

[Damião de Góis]

I'm afraid not. There is no historical tribe for my Y-DNA:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/THq_t3eR6JI/AAAAAAAACjg/ECinYNcEUB8/s400/s116.jpg

[Azalea]

My paternal lineage claims Khorasan origin but my dad's Y-DNA (R1b) is pretty much West Asian in origin..

[The Exiled King]

Not really, at least not definitively. If you really wanted to you could but it is literally such a small percentage of your ancestral make-up. In any case however you have to remember each Haplogroup is really a sub-clade to a larger or Macro-Haplogroup such as IJK, F, CT, etc. eventually reaching to Y-Chromosomal Adam but of course that is going back to extremely ancient times. For example people in Haplogroups R1b, N, O, I, J, etc. are all also apart of Haplogroups IJK and F in which they all share a common ancestor 10s of thousands of years ago.

I do think it is a cool notion though, at least you know (on the direct paternal line) what the most recent tribe or migration group your ancestor(s) came from.

[Albion]

A few subclades seem to correlate very closely with ethnic groups and known migrations. For example there is a R1b subclade quite specific to the British Isles. It probably arose there and spread to the continent with British migrations to Brittany and Galicia and English interventions in France. Another one seems to follow West Germanics.

[Dessy]

Only approximations
Anglo
Saxon
Viking
Norman
Jutes

Don't know which one,

[Jackson]

No i don't think so, because each tribe or nation typically has several different ones.

[Graham]

It can be linked to surnames & clan origins. So is a good indicator.. Like this is probably my proper Y-dna. Being a Little. R-L21 L513 L913... With a connection to the other names.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17907527/R1b-L513_Descendency_Tree.jpg

[Dessy]

It can be linked to surnames & clan origins. So is a good indicator.. Like this is probably my proper Y-dna. Being a Little. R-L21 L513 L913... With a connection to the other names.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17907527/R1b-L513_Descendency_Tree.jpg
I don't even know what my real surname is :(

[Graham]

You are quite a mix too.. I have friends who don't know their real father also, or prefer not to know.

[Philo]

My paternal line is found on Jews, Turks, Greeks, Iranians.. Oh and Kavkaz peoples have it at huge amount too.. If we take into account just J2a1b. J2 is also found in India and Albanians.. That would make an odd tribe :P

[Illancha]

I might have completely misinterpreted this thread having seen the other responses, but yes paternal lineage does determine which clan you belong to in Chechen society.

[Jackson]

Well my direct paternal line either comes from Northwest England or Northeast England, so it is probably Anglian, Danish or Norwegian, but who knows - maybe it got here even earlier, or later.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Everyone does a family tree by the father not the mother. I can trace my father's side to 1292 but I can't trace my mother's side at all and have almost no information. In Serbia, males (especially first born) inherit from family while women inherit nothing. Reason is women are expected to be married and to join another family while men carry on the family.

What is cool to think that my Y-Chromosome was shared by the man in 1292 who founded us. And every male descendent in between. That's why it's done by the father-son- males.

[Graham]

What is cool to think that my Y-Chromosome was shared by the man in 1292 who founded us. And every male descendent in between. That's why it's done by the father-son- males.

Do you have old clan maps like we did? Certain names shared together a similar lineage.

Although some clans swapped children as peace offerings. People adopted a clan for safety or for a show of solidarity & territorial reasons . So not all share Y-dna, but share a cultural bond. So you have clan cheiftains, clans & septs.

[Fire Haired]

Y DNA spread by Indo Europeans (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?91971-Y-DNA-spread-by-Indo-Europeans-(R1a1a1-M417-R1b1a2a1-L51)-(R1b1a2a-L23-R1b1a1-M73-Etc-))

R1a1a1 M417:Bug dneister culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-Dniester_culture) probably also one of the proto Indo European haplogroups but may have later became indo europeans by the spread of another people.

R1a1a1b S224: Yamna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture) culture (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FYamna_c ulture&ei=s3kqUor_E9HbqQGLvoGABw&usg=AFQjCNHb6Rh3o3cAWFpKHCAPoWXk2Xd4rQ&sig2=k2Mhwgk1Xr9lTQNR2OmF-g&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM) and probably also late Bug Dniester culture. and also Indo European(possibly proto Indo European) maybe proto Balto Slavic Indo Iranian.

R1a1a1b1 Z283: Corded ware culture (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCorded_ Ware_culture&ei=nXkqUoqjBMPZqAHEtIHYCQ&usg=AFQjCNG8a_yp5nZRFuoQQMXp3bhNuofzOw&sig2=wQFCo4N0f2tKtm1WUoMr-A&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM) and Balto Slavic (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FBalto-Slavic_languages&ei=FXoqUvTfCsmErAH02YHIBA&usg=AFQjCNFNKjIgFdjI5to8Gaj7DaCaF77xsg&sig2=vmJRujdkktHDvbhcy1orgw&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM).

R1a1a1b2 Z93 Abashevo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abashevo_culture) and Sinshta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintashta) cultures and Indo Iranian (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FIndo-Iranian_languages&ei=InoqUvmCMYv3rAGn7YDADA&usg=AFQjCNEjivmBbuBpErAymLV4YbmDH6a6Zw&sig2=coHbqUmbgJBKE7qCrcdcLA&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM).

R1b1a2a1 L51 and R1b1a2a1a L11: Germanic Italo celtic (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?89535-R1b-L51-L11-Germanic-Italo-Celts-Rulers-and-conqueres-of-Bronze-Iron-age-west-Europe) no specfic culture has been found but since 31 Y DNa samples from neloithic west europe 24 had G2a, 4 had I2a1a, one had E1b1b V13, one had F*(i think one of its decendants), and one had F or one of its decendants. Not one R1b then suddenly two 4,600ybp R1b samples from german Bell Beaker culture teh exact spot proto Germanic Italo Celtic speakers are suppose to have arrived.

R1b S116: Italo Celtic but with some very very rare Germanic branches that are probably from inter marriage when both were in central Europe 4,000-5,00ybp.

R1b L21: Insular Celtic. It would have begun in France but was dominate in Insular Celtic speakers who spread acroos Britain and Ireland 3,000-4,300ybp.

R1b S28: Italo Gaulish Urnfield culture (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUrnfiel d_culture&ei=BXsqUrbJH8TlygGCp4HwDQ&usg=AFQjCNFiQZ9OiLC2boFrSbQAv9K1jC8CZg&sig2=h4c7SDYYeXVC1G4FUHOLNA&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM)

R1b Df27: CeltIberian would have begun in France but dominte in CeltIberian speakers who spread acroos Iberia anywhere from 2,700-4,300ybp.

R1b S21: Germanic began probably around the Netherlands or central Europe but was deifntley major in proto Geranic speaking Nordic bronze age culture (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FNordic_ Bronze_Age&ei=XXsqUtGVD8TErQGMt4GgDQ&usg=AFQjCNEWmRehGQZq-2JvzcKfoyaRC_TJvQ&sig2=FTNlg5HEt1YGZMJyJ1_CKA&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM)

[Smaug]

Tribe of Israelites.

[Vesuvian Sky]

R1a1a1 M417:Bug dneister culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-Dniester_culture)

The updated 2013 R1a1a clades chart by Lapinski suggests this clade's date to be more in line with Khvalynsk culture:

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l625/ft-d/Lukasz/R1a-clades_zpsddacae9d.jpg

still very PIE though.

[Damião de Góis]

Fire Haired, do you know what my Y-DNA would be in this new nomenclature? I've been told 23andme is outdated in that aspect.

[Fire Haired]

Fire Haired, do you know what my Y-DNA would be in this new nomenclature? I've been told 23andme is outdated in that aspect.

Ur Y DNA is now called R1b1a2a1a2 S116 they only changed it from R1b1b to R1b1a. The part that never changes is the S116 but when they find new subgroups they give new names. Technically u can call all Human Y DNA after A so it would go really far down like A1a1a1a1b3a4e5a6b3a9a2b1. So u are apart of the Italo Celtic branch not a suprise since u are from Portugal were it is about 50%.

map of Italo Celtic R1b1a2a1a2 S116
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Celtic_Europe.gif

I would bet u have the subclade that is almost completely dominate in Iberia R1b Df27

[Fire Haired]

Tribe of Israelites.

Abraham is the father of the jews but he came from modern day Iraq. I doubt his y dna has survived that well. because u should not except all jews to trace their direct paternal line to Abraham. I am sure though his is popular and that eventulley they will find it. Some think they found the Y DNA haplogroup of Aaron brother of Moses click here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FY-chromosomal_Aaron&ei=LoIqUtKYM5DsrAGliYCgBg&usg=AFQjCNGbVfBWKacBdf7lettNQdxCOy0EXA&sig2=jN1mBVAJwh1xSSCGXcTzvw&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM). It would be awesome if they could find the Y DNA of important people in the Bible who should have alot of direct male descendants like King David and kind Solomon.

[Damião de Góis]

I would bet u have the subclade that is almost completely dominate in Iberia R1b Df27

I don't know. Doesn't R1b Df27 has a bigger way to writing it? Like R1b1a2a1a2XXX ?

[Fire Haired]

I don't know. Doesn't R1b Df27 has a bigger way to writing it? Like R1b1a2a1a2XXX ?

It is one branch under R1b1a2a1a S116 so R1b1a2a1a2 Df27. click here (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml)
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/R1b-tree.gif

[Smaug]

Abraham is the father of the jews but he came from modern day Iraq. I doubt his y dna has survived that well. because u should not except all jews to trace their direct paternal line to Abraham. I am sure though his is popular and that eventulley they will find it. Some think they found the Y DNA haplogroup of Aaron brother of Moses click here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FY-chromosomal_Aaron&ei=LoIqUtKYM5DsrAGliYCgBg&usg=AFQjCNGbVfBWKacBdf7lettNQdxCOy0EXA&sig2=jN1mBVAJwh1xSSCGXcTzvw&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM). It would be awesome if they could find the Y DNA of important people in the Bible who should have alot of direct male descendants like King David and kind Solomon.

Don't worry, that was only a joke boyo.

[Damião de Góis]

It is one branch under R1b1a2a1a S116 so R1b1a2a1a2 Df27. click here (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml)
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/R1b-tree.gif

Ok i got it. Seems that the old way of writing R1b Df27 was R1b1b2a1a2*

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_x6Y4ZgFsZdY/THayWhv-w7I/AAAAAAAAAYw/ew7YwZrSlJI/s1600/Myres+maps+R1b1b2a1+frequencies.jpeg

[Stefan_Dusan]

Do you have old clan maps like we did? Certain names shared together a similar lineage.

Although some clans swapped children as peace offerings. People adopted a clan for safety or for a show of solidarity & territorial reasons . So not all share Y-dna, but share a cultural bond. So you have clan cheiftains, clans & septs.

we have a 'rodoslovlje' which shows our originator and all our male relatives. It shows surnames of all, and reveals if they changed. Women on the map are often indicated with asterisks (*).

[Philo]

Abraham is the father of the jews but he came from modern day Iraq. I doubt his y dna has survived that well. because u should not except all jews to trace their direct paternal line to Abraham. I am sure though his is popular and that eventulley they will find it. Some think they found the Y DNA haplogroup of Aaron brother of Moses click here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FY-chromosomal_Aaron&ei=LoIqUtKYM5DsrAGliYCgBg&usg=AFQjCNGbVfBWKacBdf7lettNQdxCOy0EXA&sig2=jN1mBVAJwh1xSSCGXcTzvw&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM). It would be awesome if they could find the Y DNA of important people in the Bible who should have alot of direct male descendants like King David and kind Solomon.

Yeah but Abraham probably did'nt exist. Anyways Jews are ~20% J2 and ~20% J1-P58, that's what I would have expected him to be if he did exist..

[Fire Haired]

Yeah but Abraham probably did'nt exist. Anyways Jews are ~20% J2 and ~20% J1-P58, that's what I would have expected him to be if he did exist..

I gues since ur probably a atheist or just anti christian. That u want to say he did not exist people said the same about king david and the hittites. Compare ths Sumrerian flood and creation story to the one in the bible for 4,000 years they were able to rembmer that story almost word for word through oral tradition and writing. I deifntley think it is possible they rembmer abraham. There is also no doubt in my mind the bible was written when it says it was written. 3,000 year old hebrew texts proves they could write. 3,400 year old egyptien mention of the isrealites proves they existed back then. The fact that writting had existed in mid eastern cultures for over 2,000 years the jews came in existince there is no doubt they had the ability to pass on texts from over 3,000ybp. Then comare it to the ancient greek flood story they are all nearly identical. Also i have looked at flood and creation stories from around the world they show many similarities that i think could not have been recreated. U have to think the fact mayans, Germans, Bantu, Egyptians, Sumerians, Chinese, Australian aboriginals all believe in God. The idea of God was not recreated it is human instinct and why do u think over 200,000 years no one forgot about God maybe because he is very important and very real.

The way the bible talks about Hittites who people thought were a myth till the 1800's(jews were the last to remember them). The Hittites basically went extinct about 3,000 years ago. They did become syro hittites which would be the ones king David knew makes sense since syria is so close to isreal. That is good evidence of the old testaments legitimacy. There is even some evidence they fund the y dna haplogroup of aaron the brother of moses click here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FY-chromosomal_Aaron&ei=uzorUrzsEsPMrQHOpIDwDQ&usg=AFQjCNGbVfBWKacBdf7lettNQdxCOy0EXA&sig2=qMS9aTZlCxJHpMMqZNNqew&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM). Adarham is very important because he is the person God choose to bring humans around the world back to God and to leave the false Gods. God used his descendants to bring the messiah who then brought tons of people back to God.

[Philo]

I gues since ur probably a atheist or just anti christian. That u want to say he did not exist people said the same about king david and the hittites. Compare ths Sumrerian flood and creation story to the one in the bible for 4,000 years they were able to rembmer that story almost word for word through oral tradition and writing. I deifntley think it is possible they rembmer abraham. There is also no doubt in my mind the bible was written when it says it was written. 3,000 year old hebrew texts proves they could write. 3,400 year old egyptien mention of the isrealites proves they existed back then. The fact that writting had existed in mid eastern cultures for over 2,000 years the jews came in existince there is no doubt they had the ability to pass on texts from over 3,000ybp. Then comare it to the ancient greek flood story they are all nearly identical. Also i have looked at flood and creation stories from around the world they show many similarities that i think could not have been recreated. U have to think the fact mayans, Germans, Bantu, Egyptians, Sumerians, Chinese, Australian aboriginals all believe in God. The idea of God was not recreated it is human instinct and why do u think over 200,000 years no one forgot about God maybe because he is very important and very real.

The way the bible talks about Hittites who people thought were a myth till the 1800's(jews were the last to remember them). The Hittites basically went extinct about 3,000 years ago. They did become syro hittites which would be the ones king David knew makes sense since syria is so close to isreal. That is good evidence of the old testaments legitimacy. There is even some evidence they fund the y dna haplogroup of aaron the brother of moses click here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FY-chromosomal_Aaron&ei=uzorUrzsEsPMrQHOpIDwDQ&usg=AFQjCNGbVfBWKacBdf7lettNQdxCOy0EXA&sig2=qMS9aTZlCxJHpMMqZNNqew&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM). Adarham is very important because he is the person God choose to bring humans around the world back to God and to leave the false Gods. God used his descendants to bring the messiah who then brought tons of people back to God.
LOL. I'm not anti-Christian. I'm not denying the bible, I'm only denying some parts of it as historically inaccuarate. For example, the parts that talk about the Judeas fighting the Assyrians are obviously true, but they're from ~700 BCE. Abraham's period is not sure as it is, and we don't have definite proof about the exodus story. I only trust the bible beggining at King David. Anythnig before that is fiction for me.
Btw here's the mention of Israel from 1200 BCE that you tlaked about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele

[Jonik]

Does your Y Dna or Paternal lineage determine what tribe you are a member of?

Not yet, may be in the future, but at least one of the tribe in the picture for sure. I don't know yet which one.

http://image-upload.de/image/AL1usa/9c5600460f.png

[CordedWhelp]

My answer would be "yes, but one's most recent admixture can add heavy modifiers"