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Loki
08-13-2009, 08:16 AM
France and Germany exit recession (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8198766.stm)

The French and German economies both grew by 0.3% between April and June, bringing to an end year-long recessions in two of Europe's largest economies.

"The data is very surprising. After four negative quarters France is coming out of the red," said French Finance and Economy Minister Christine Lagarde.

Few analysts expected the economies to come out of recession this early.

The eurozone's official gross domestic product (GDP) figures will be released later on Thursday morning.

Both the French and German economies last grew in the first quarter of 2008.

'State umbrella'

The German economy, Europe's largest, contracted by a revised 3.5% in the first three months of the year.

And while exports rose 7% in June, the fastest pace in nearly three years, few analysts had expected a return to overall economic growth so quickly.

The country's Federal Statistics Office said that household and government expenditure had boosted growth.

It added that imports had declined "far more sharply than exports, which had a positive effect on GDP growth".

Analyst reaction to Germany's recovery was mixed.

"The recession has ended, and it has ended sooner than we all thought. We expect to see growth of 1% in the third quarter, which is very strong for Germany, and I wouldn't rule out the chance of even better growth," said Andreas Rees at Unicredit.

Others were more circumspect, arguing that the economy is over-reliant on government stimulus packages.

"What we're seeing is the impact of fiscal policy. The question is how lasting [the recovery] will be. There are lots of problems we haven't solved. In particular, the banking sector is still reliant on the state umbrella," said Jens-Oliver Niklasch at LBBW.

"As long as it's not clear that the bank's capital base is robust, we can't assume that the crisis is over."

Consumer spending

France's economy had contracted by a revised 1.1% in the first quarter.

Ms Largarde said that consumer spending and strong exports had helped to pull France out of recession.

"What we see is that consumption is holding up," she said.

Official figures showed that household consumption rose by 0.4% in the second quarter.

She said government incentive schemes for trading in old cars, together with falling prices, were helping consumers.

Foreign trade contributed 0.9% to the GDP figure - a "very strong impact", said Ms Largarde.

"[The figures are] a positive surprise, as many people were expecting slightly negative numbers," said Marie Diron at Oxford Economics.

But she warned that growth is "still very fragile".

"Investment is down, we still have surprisingly low stocking, and growth is boosted by the fact that imports fell sharply," she added.

Vulpix
08-13-2009, 11:00 AM
To declare the end of the recession after only one quarter of positive growth is very premature.

Amarantine
08-13-2009, 11:55 AM
ha! same recession as crisis, they think we have butter instead of brains?!

Ĉmeric
08-13-2009, 01:32 PM
The recession is over, Newsweek (http://www.newsweek.com/id/208633) magazine has decreed so!:rolleyes:

Newsweek is an opinion (not news, despite the title) rag that is owned by the ultra-liberal Washington Post. Just because all that stimilus spending showed up in the latest statistics. Even GM & Chrysler are doing well thanks to the rebate (http://www.autotrader.com/cash-for-clunkers.jsp) program financed by Washington. Soon that stimilus money is going to turn into massive inflation. At the very least there will be a replay of the stagflation of the Carter era.

Most experts say the real unemployment rate in the US is around 16%. How can a nation not be in a recession (or depression) with unemployment that high.

Loki
08-13-2009, 01:34 PM
They just want to create another stock bubble again with all this ramping. Until it bursts again ... inevitable.

Vulpix
08-13-2009, 01:40 PM
Most experts say the real unemployment rate in the US is around 16%.

On this topic I recommend this article (http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2008/Pollyanna-Creep-Economy1may08.htm).




http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2008/Pollyanna-Creep-Economy1may08b.gif
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2008/Pollyanna-Creep-Economy1may08red.gif
Including workers who are
part-time for "economic reasons"
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2008/Pollyanna-Creep-Economy1may08yellow.gif
Including other "marginally
attached" workers
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2008/Pollyanna-Creep-Economy1may08blue.gif
Including "discouraged" workers
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2008/Pollyanna-Creep-Economy1may08black.gif
The official "unemployment rate"


AMERICA'S "OPACITY" CRISIS

Transparency is the hallmark of democracy, but we now find ourselves with economic statistics every bit as opaque—and as vulnerable to double-dealing—as a subprime CDO. Of the "big three" statistics, let us start with unemployment. Most of the people tired of looking for work, as mentioned above, are no longer counted in the workforce, though they do still show up in one of the auxiliary unemployment numbers. The BLS has six different regular jobless measurements—U-1, U-2, U-3 (the one routinely cited), U-4, U-5, and U-6. In January 2008, the U-4 to U-6 series produced unemployment numbers ranging from 5.2 percent to 9.0 percent, all above the "official" number. The series nearest to real-world conditions is, not surprisingly, the highest: U-6, which includes part-timers looking for full-time employment as well as other members of the "marginally attached," a new catchall meaning those not looking for a job but who say they want one.

...

THE U.S. ECONOMY EX-DISTORTION The real numbers, to most economically minded Americans, would be a face full of cold water. Based on the criteria in place a quarter century ago, today's U.S. unemployment rate is somewhere between 9 percent and 12 percent; the inflation rate is as high as 7 or even 10 percent; economic growth since the recession of 2001 has been mediocre, despite a huge surge in the wealth and incomes of the superrich, and we are falling back into recession.

...

Loki
08-13-2009, 07:45 PM
It doesn't really matter what happens in France and Germany. The US is still the world's economic powerhouse, and if the US sneezes then Europe will still catch a cold.

Treffie
08-19-2009, 12:16 PM
I'm quite sure that our Govts and media want to will us out of the recession. When they're telling us we're coming out, local businesses say the opposite.

Octothorpe
08-20-2009, 08:35 PM
"A fevered, agitated state in a sick man may give the illusion of vitality." I don't remember who said that, but the economy is like a sick man given amphetamines (stimulus bills, cash for clunkers, outrageous spending and borrowing). He may appear chipper, but he's really at Death's door!

SwordoftheVistula
08-29-2009, 08:27 AM
The 'unemployment rate' is even worse than that, since most people on welfare/benefits are not included in the statistics, even as 'discouraged workers'.