Should Slovenia be granted access to international sea?

[Alenka]

According to the Drnovšek-Račan agreement, the access would be granted like this:

http://oi47.tinypic.com/iliwcz.jpg

But Croatia doesn't seem to like the idea of Slovenia getting access.

What's your opinion? Don't forget to vote on the poll.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Croatia will be in the EU soon. So why does it matter? :confused:

[Alenka]

Croatia will be in the EU soon.
Wow, I wasn't aware we have Baba Vanga on board... :laugh:


So why does it matter? :confused:
Because it's the topic of this thread.

[Žołnir]

Ofc. If EU collapses (which i doubt but nevertheless) this would be good. We must have place under the sun. :icon_wink:

[poiuytrewq0987]

Wow, I wasn't aware we have Baba Vanga on board... :laugh:

Umm, Croatia will be entering the EU on 1 July and no that's not a prediction but a fact. If Slovenia tries to block Croatian accession then it will be just ignored. Slovenia is a tiny country of barely over 2 million. It's about as important as FYROM. Croatia on the other hand has nice beaches where German tourists from Berlin will surely want to go this summer.



Because it's the topic of this thread.

I wasn't talking about the relevance of the topic of discussion but the relevance of having that thin strip given to Slovenia when Croatia will be in the EU and you can pass through Croatian waters freely.

[Žołnir]

Thraex not really. I mean yes EU is more interested in CRO but bypassing blocade is highly unlikely. However i think blocade won't happen in the end.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Thraex not really. I mean yes EU is more interested in CRO but bypassing blocade is highly unlikely. However i think blocade won't happen in the end.

Honestly Slovenia trying to block Croatia is like Macedonia trying to block Greece. It's just ridiculous and it won't happen nor be accepted in international circles. If Slovenia does attempt a blockade then expect the full weight of Frankfurt and Brussels to fall on Slovenia and the blockade will be lifted overnight quite easily.

[Žołnir]

Honestly Slovenia trying to block Croatia is like Macedonia trying to block Greece. It's just ridiculous and it won't happen nor be accepted in international circles. If Slovenia does attempt a blockade then expect the full weight of Frankfurt and Brussels to fall on Slovenia and the blockade will be lifted overnight quite easily.

Macedonia is not really in possition to block Greece. Look all the EU member states must ratify the Treaty of Accession in order for certain coutnry to join.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Macedonia is not really in possition to block Greece. Look all the EU member states must ratify the Treaty of Accession in order for certain coutnry to join.

I was using an analogy. If Macedonia was a member of the EU and Greece was not...

[dralos]

i support slovenia bcs they are trying to fight slavic disease

[Žołnir]

I was using an analogy. If Macedonia was a member of the EU and Greece was not...

In that case many other EU countries probably wouldn't ratify Greece with all economic issues it has.

[Alenka]

Slovenia is a tiny country of barely over 2 million. It's about as important as FYROM. Croatia on the other hand has nice beaches where German tourists from Berlin will surely want to go this summer.

I wasn't talking about the relevance of the topic of discussion but the relevance of having that thin strip given to Slovenia when Croatia will be in the EU and you can pass through Croatian waters freely.
Ummm, having that thin strip is very relevant to Slovenia.

Do you actually believe the EU is forever? I doubt it. Considering that even something as mighty as the Bulgarian Empire eventually crumbled (and repeately so :(), why wouldn't the EU? :confused:

[Mans not hot]

i support slovenia bcs they are trying to fight slavic diseaseThis is the dumbest answer I've ever heard on this thread.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Ummm, having that thin strip is very relevant to Slovenia.

Be happy you even have a coast. Not all European countries are so lucky to have a coast.


Do you actually believe the EU is forever? I doubt it. Considering that even something as mighty as the Bulgarian Empire eventually crumbled (and repeately so :(), why wouldn't the EU? :confused:

It's certainly more capable of staying together than like the old Latin currency union.

[Alenka]

Be happy you even have a coast. Not all European countries are so lucky to have a coast.

Next time you try to claim Macedonia, remember to instead be happy to have a country in the first place. Not all ethnicities are so lucky to have a country.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Next time you try to claim Macedonia, remember to instead be happy to have a country in the first place. Not all ethnicities are so lucky to have a country.

You Yugoslavians... :picard1:

[CrystalMaiden]

i support slovenia bcs they are trying to fight slavic disease

You ain't that big on thinking :rolleyes:

[dralos]

You ain't that big on thinking :rolleyes:
are you cured from your stockholm syndrome?

[alfieb]

Yes.

Being landlocked sucks and in this case is unnecessary.

[Žołnir]

I think we should make deal with Croatia. They fish, do wars with Italy, etc. in those waters, etc. and our merchant ships can sail with no issues. This is best variant imo. Win, win deal. :)

[RussiaPrussia]

if they border the sea they should have right to pass it, seems like italians and croatians have many in common with turks.

[Dombra]

I can´t see why not

[Hayalet]

if they border the sea they should have right to pass it, seems like italians and croatians have many in common with turks.
You got it wrong: Greeks want to have something in common with Croatians and Italians, but Turks don't let them.

[Lena]

According to the Drnovšek-Račan agreement, the access would be granted like this:

http://oi47.tinypic.com/iliwcz.jpg

But Croatia doesn't seem to like the idea of Slovenia getting access.

What's your opinion? Don't forget to vote on the poll.


I thought this dispute was over a years ago?! You know when Mesic was giving inappropriate statements while that Slovene was trowing him self from some kind of half-bridge and rolling down in protest...
It ended up like this: they forbid you corridor (which is their right) and you right away maximized the prices of travel vinyetas. Cool? I don't think so...
Da komsiji crkne krava, pa nek ide zivot! :noidea:

[Don Arb]

Its interesting how Croatia and Italy got that much the seaside and Slovenia didn't, any explanation for that? or you just dont like the sea :D

[Alenka]

I thought this dispute was over a years ago?! You know when Mesic was giving inappropriate statements while that Slovene was trowing him self from some kind of half-bridge and rolling down in protest...
That conflict was about another issue - about Joško Joras and the blocks of concrete that Croatia put on the road that leads to his residence.

[Szegedist]

We should dig a canal through Slovenia to connect the Danube in Hungary to the Adriatic. Something similar was planned during the days of Austria-Hungary, but never realized.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Wagenfuhrer_1900_Vienna_Adriatic_Sea_canal.jpg

[Žołnir]

Vinyeta prices have absolutely nothing to do with corridor actually. I dunno what foregin media tell but that is pure bs. The high prices are just as bad for Slovene drivers (in fact more cuz they must pay each month) as for anyone else and they are getting higher even when such events don't happen.

[Lena]

We should dig a canal through Slovenia to connect the Danube in Hungary to the Adriatic. Something similar was planned during the days of Austria-Hungary, but never realized.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Wagenfuhrer_1900_Vienna_Adriatic_Sea_canal.jpg

I've another idea! Why don't we use pan-European transport corridor VII to connect our self to Russia :coffee: that way we'd have at least access to some sea lol!

[Corvus]

I've another idea! Why don't we use pan-European transport corridor VII to connect our self to Russia :coffee: that way we'd have at least access to some sea lol!

And I have an even better idea. Bestow the access to the sea Austria.
That`s one of the things we lack anyway
We would handle it with care :)

[Szegedist]

And I have an even better idea. Bestow the access to the sea Austria.
That`s one of the things we lack anyway
We would handle it with care :)

I agree too. It sucks not having access to sea after a millennium. It was awkward to be ruled by an admiral from 1920-1944 in a country without a coastline ;) :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Strait_of_Otranto_(1917)

[RussiaPrussia]

You got it wrong: Greeks want to have something in common with Croatians and Italians, but Turks don't let them.

its funny you didnt get what i mean :D every turk should know. You block our oil ships in istanbul and dont allow them to pass.

[Rastko]

If you ask me I would give it to you ,Slovenians swarm our beaches and sea every summer anyways...

[Permafrost]

Yeah unfortunately foreign media has this bad habit of overblowing the dispute into various conspiracy theories, like that Slovenes want the Piran bay because apparently it's 'rich' in natural gas and petrol :picard1: Suddenly this small stretch of sea is full of underwater treasures, petrol, fish, you name it; all of which the greedy Slovenes want to get their hands on.


And I have an even better idea. Bestow the access to the sea Austria.
That`s one of the things we lack anyway
We would handle it with care

I bet you would. Just tell me one thing, do you want to get the access before or after we return Lower Styria to you?

[Corvus]

Yeah unfortunately foreign media has this bad habit of overblowing the dispute into various conspiracy theories, like that Slovenes want the Piran bay because apparently it's 'rich' in natural gas and petrol :picard1: Suddenly this small stretch of sea is full of underwater treasures, petrol, fish, you name it; all of which the greedy Slovenes want to get their hands on.



I bet you would. Just tell me one thing, do you want to get the access before or after we give Lower Styria to you?

That sounds like a good deal. You can have Styria in exchange. This province can easliy be dispensed :D

[Szegedist]

I bet you would. Just tell me one thing, do you want to get the access before or after we return Lower Styria to you?

Throw in Muravidék aka so called Prekumujre and you got yourself a deal ;)

[Hayalet]

its funny you didnt get what i mean :D every turk should know. You block our oil ships in istanbul and dont allow them to pass.
No, we don't? In peacetime, all civilian ships, as well as warships of the Black Sea countries, have unrestricted passage.

[Alenka]

Throw in Muravidék aka so called Prekumujre and you got yourself a deal ;)
Hey, be happy you have the Balaton lake... the etymology of the name speaks volumes! :tongue

[Szegedist]

Hey, be happy you have the Balaton lake... the etymology of the name speaks volumes! :tongue

Bál or Bél was a Sumerian God, the "Ton" means tó (lake) in Sumerian. So the Balaton is simply Bál God's lake. ;) :D :D

And if we go by the Slavic story, then you must get in the cue behind Slovaks, Serbs and others who claim our land ;)

[RussiaPrussia]

No, we don't? In peacetime, all civilian ships, as well as warships of the Black Sea countries, have unrestricted passage.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TZ7XcJdf7ng/TGVYkOuzRQI/AAAAAAAAAKY/QW1wcWqikDk/s1600/oil+tanker-25000.jpg

have you ever seen this in istanbul? its not allowed.

[Alenka]

Bál or Bél was a Sumerian God, the "Ton" means tó (lake) in Sumerian. So the Balaton is simply Bál God's lake. ;) :D :D
Hehehe. Yeah, or perhaps it derives from the Slavic blato meaning 'mud' or 'swamp' (from earlier Proto-Slavic boltьno). :)


And if we go by the Slavic story, then you must get in the cue behind Slovaks, Serbs and others who claim our land ;)
Simply put: Slavia. No need to complicate simple matters, really. :laugh:

[Szegedist]

Hehehe. Yeah, or perhaps it derives from the Slavic blato meaning 'mud' or 'swamp' (from earlier Proto-Slavic boltьno). :)

Sounds like you have never been to Balaton :laugh:


Simply put: Slavia. No need to complicate simple matters, really. :laugh:


Slavia, sure.. :laugh::laugh:

[Alenka]

Sounds like you have never been to Balaton :laugh:

:rolleyes:

"The Slavic prince Pribina began to build in 846 a large fortress as his seat of power and several churches in the region of Lake Balaton, in a territory of modern Zalavár surrounded by forests and swamps along the river Zala. His extremely well fortified castle and capital of Balaton Principality became known as Blatnohrad."

It's not weird at all, that a lake in close proximity of Blatnohrad eventually got named with a word deriving from the same root.

That's enough with the off topic. Please vote in the poll for the sake of statistics.

[Adrian]

I think the only organ that can resolve this issue is the International Court of Justice through 'Ex aequo et bono' principle.
But, there is an obstacle because for the sending of subject up to that court, both parties should agree in advance.
May happen an international pressure over both sides, in which case Croatia will be forced to agree about the sending of the case in ICJ, and in other hand Slovenia will be forced to accept any decision of the court and waives all other conditions toward Croatia; because this is not the only unresolved issue between Slovenia and Croatia.

Imo ICJ will allow Slovenia to have a strip for the circulation of goods, but in no way would allow ownership or any other kind of utilization of that part of the sea.

[Toma Bebic]

This issue isn't so simple.I voted no for these reasons.

1. they want all the waters of bay of Piran. This means croatian boats or even people going swimming will be in Slovenia. The way it is now, its split down the middle. Seems fair to me.

2.Even if they had this corridor, they still cant get out of the Adriatic without passing through Croatian or Italian waters again. Croatian and Italian waters are connected in the middle of the Adriatic. They would need another corridor.

3. Nobody has a right for territorial contact to international waters. It follows the rules the way it is now. Other ports function the same way. They have the right of "innocent passage". A ship going to Koper or Trieste enters through Croatian waters and leaves through Italian waters. Ports all over the world use these same rules.

4. If croatia creats this precedent. Whats to stop others from demanding that the rules be bent. That idiot Silajdzic of Bosnia has already said that bosna should also have access to international waters from the port of Neum. That means Croats cant even go from one island to the next without going through Bosnian waters.

I think Croatia is just creating problems for itself. There is good reason why law of the sea rules exist.

[Peterski]

"Sea, our sea" (1925 song): https://bibliotekapiosenki.pl/utwory/Morze_nasze_morze


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2PLkG2-REs