Which empire would you prefer for the Balkans

[poiuytrewq0987]

The Osman Empire...

http://www.waitmeturkey.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/turkish-ottoman-maps.jpg

or

the Austrian Empire?

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/innocent456/ae_zpsdae44f8d.png

[Pontios]

I would rather be with Europeans than Turks, Iraqis, and other Muslim countries.

[RussiaPrussia]

czech rep is not balkan

[Geni]

I prefer only my country.. Albania...who is the difference from invasors from Austria with them from Turkay ??? There is not difference for me..

[Hoca]

Ottoman was the best the Balkan knew. Ottomans united the balkans. Before they were always in war with each other. When we were there, it prospered, when we left. We have the Balkans of today.

[Teyrn]

The Austrian Empire.

[Teyrn]

Ottoman was the best the Balkan knew. Ottomans united the balkans. Before they were always in war with each other. When we were there, it prospered, when we left. We have the Balkans of today.

The Romans did it first and several outstanding emperors were of Balkan origin, i.e. Diocletian and Constantine.

[SILNI]

Neither.

[Incal]

Ottoman was the best the Balkan knew. Ottomans united the balkans. Before they were always in war with each other. When we were there, it prospered, when we left. We have the Balkans of today.

http://images1.parentsconnect.com/editorial_images/7/woman-laughing-hard-280X280-6.JPG?quality=0.6&height=285&width=285&

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yPNxR36BiRQ/UF_GMMAwfuI/AAAAAAAABB4/PYudZaNVRvw/s1600/laughing+hard_thumb%5B1%5D.jpg

http://jaypgreene.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/laughing4.jpg

http://www.ipbrief.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/IPB-Gousse-4-1.png

http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2012/10/april-2-gabo-laughing-hard2-thumb.jpg

http://datingsymbol.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/laughing-hard.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NIx-lZQFGt8/THNU1yvuhPI/AAAAAAAAHDI/-WDe_m6elyE/s1600/IMG_4501.JPG

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1355/32/1355322354201.jpg

http://static.tumblr.com/5nzo5jb/mW8m3u5q7/laughing_hard_michael.jpg

http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/18/4c863b97a95733e5e170c569cb6dc94e/l.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/weirdnews/1/0/9/r/-/-/mitt-romney-laughs.jpg

[SILNI]

Ottoman was the best the Balkan knew. Ottomans united the balkans.
We don't want to be united.
We want separate independent states.

[Mans not hot]

Ottoman was the best the Balkan knew. Ottomans united the balkans. Before they were always in war with each other. When we were there, it prospered, when we left. We have the Balkans of today.
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/070/674/Trollface_Mohammad.jpg

[Hochmeister]

I prefer the East Roman Empire.

[Linet]

I prefer what Hockmeister prefers :thumbs:

[Zmey Gorynych]

The Osman Empire...

http://www.waitmeturkey.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/turkish-ottoman-maps.jpg
I know this is not the point of this thread but Wallachia and Moldova were never part of the Ottoman Empire, also Bessarabia became a part of Russia in 1812 not 1878. So my question is who's the idiot that made this map?

[SILNI]

I prefer the East Roman Empire.

Agreed ! Byzantium should be also an option :thumb001:
That would be my vote.

[Permafrost]

Well ideally it's none. Austria is definitely the lesser evil of the two, by the end of the 19th century it wasn't that bad at all - a pretty solid democratic parlamentary Monarchy, having a big support from the strongest Slovene party at the time (KNS - Katoliška narodna stranka, which later became SLS and finally VLS).

It must be mentioned though, that, by the 15th century, the Bavarians (and later, Austrians) destroyed the democratic practices of the ancient Carantanians and Carinthians (http://www.theslovenian.com/articles/savli.htm) and therefore did considerable damage.

[Hochmeister]

Austria ... a pretty solid democratic parlamentary Monarchy

And Ukrainian genocide

http://qrok.net/uploads/posts/2010-03/1268141149_48328712_gleb_sokolovich_ternovij_venet s.jpg

[Flintlocke]

Mongols.

[Mraz]

The Yugoslav empire of course, from Slovenia to Bulgaria.
But something would probably turn wrong if it happened.

[Szegedist]

http://keptar.oszk.hu/000500/000590/magyaro-nagyl-terkep_nagykep.jpg

[Hayalet]

I know this is not the point of this thread but Wallachia and Moldova were never part of the Ottoman Empire, also Bessarabia became a part of Russia in 1812 not 1878. So my question is who's the idiot that made this map?
I imagine it's because their politics were dominated by the Ottomans; even their sovereign princes were basically appointed. At any rate, funny thing to complain about next to a completely imaginary 'Austrian Empire' map.

[Hochmeister]

I imagine it's because their politics were dominated by the Ottomans; even their sovereign princes were basically appointed. At any rate, funny thing to complain about next to a completely imaginary 'Austrian Empire' map.

Soviet Union had been appointing leaders in the East Bloc.
The USA is appointing leaders in almost all Europe.

Should Europe be considered an American State there in a map?

[Zmey Gorynych]

I imagine it's because their politics were dominated by the Ottomans; even their sovereign princes were basically appointed. At any rate, funny thing to complain about next to a completely imaginary 'Austrian Empire' map.
Being influenced by and being a part of are two completely different things. The first map is meant to be accurate and in accordance with actual historical facts, although obviously the author is a complete idiot. The second one is hypothetical, probably made by the OP in order to serve the subject of this thread and I'm quite sure that he will not claim to have represented historical truths with that map. Now do you understand why I have not "complained" about the second one?


Soviet Union had been appointing leaders in the East Bloc.
Prior to Soviet Union and the Russian Empire it was the ottomans who dominated the romanian principalities. What Altay is talking about is the last 100 years before the personal union of 1859.

[Hayalet]

Soviet Union had been appointing leaders in the East Bloc.
The USA is appointing leaders in almost all Europe.

Should Europe be considered an American State there in a map?
Sure, you can see terms like 'American Empire' or 'Soviet Empire' here and there. I suppose the difference is that NATO or Warsaw Pact members are/were equal partners at least in theory, while Moldova and Wallachia were legally bound to the Ottoman Empire by a marked tributary vassalage.

[Zmey Gorynych]

while Moldova and Wallachia were legally bound to the Ottoman Empire by a marked tributary vassalage.
Legally bound !? They were bound as long as you could force them to pay you, many moldovan and wallachian kings were wiping their asses with those documents the minute they got the throne. In addition to that one has to mention the fact that not all kings acceded to the throne via Istanbul.

[Hayalet]

^ You aren't necessarily contradicting me:


The Ottomans considered as their vassals all states whose rulers agreed to pay tribute. Even the Habsburgs fell into this category after Ferdinand I (1526-64) agreed to buy peace from the Ottomans in 1533. In fact the Habsburgs were vassals in name only, as was Ragusa. Transylvania depended much more on the good will of the Ottomans than did those ruling in either Vienna or Ragusa, and the so-called Danubian Principalities, Moldovia and Wallachia, were indeed vassal states in the strictest legal sense of the term. They too, however, had enough freedom to develop independently of the Ottomans to a very considerable degree.

Southeastern Europe Under Ottoman Rule: 1354-1804

By Peter F. Sugar

[Zmey Gorynych]

^ You aren't necessarily contradicting me:
Formally they were always vassals but they had spells of complete independence when they refused to pay and fought against the turks. Furthermore not all kings agreed to pay tribute because not all kings bought the throne from the turks.
We're not completely contradicting each other but we're not agreeing either.

[ozzieman]

Austrian of course. Who wants to be occupied by the Orcs?

[Midori]

If we were under Austrian rule our countries would be doing much better now, no question about it.

And only Balkanites should vote on this poll

[Incel King]

Kingdom of SHS.

[sioned]

I voted Austria - should be Austria-Hungary :), as no one can expect from a Turkish muslem rule I be sympathic

[Böri]

Historically There are only 2 Balkan major empires which were based in Balkans.
First is the Turkic First Bulgarian Empire (based in Pliska, Bulgaria).
Second is Ottoman Turkey (based in Edirne, Thrace then İstanbul).

Without Turkic influx, there would never be any strong state based in Balkans.
Habsburgs were south-east Germanic from Vienna region. Different, non-Balkan state. Like Byzantine or later Soviet occupied Balkans.

[Astarte]

Historically There are only 2 Balkan major empires which were based in Balkans.
First is the Turkic First Bulgarian Empire (based in Pliska, Bulgaria).
Second is Ottoman Turkey (based in Edirne, Thrace then İstanbul).

Without Turkic influx, there would never be any strong state based in Balkans.
Habsburgs were south-east Germanic from Vienna region. Different, non-Balkan state. Like Byzantine or later Soviet occupied Balkans.



:zzz

[Root]

IMO none of them are good candidates to be the dominant one in the Balkans or anywhere else.. both Turkic & Germanic are foreign cultures and both started the wars and brought instability. Balkans need their own empire, state, union or whatever else you can call it.. the foreign intervention in the internal affairs of Balkans might cause the endless conflicts and this won't end well.. just imagine if the Balkan empire invaded the Turkic Central Asia or Germanic lands, would their citizens be happy to see them? Obviously not.

[Pigling]

Yugoslavia > Austria-Hungary > Ottoman Empire

[kleenex]

I wish the Venetians had annexed the Peloponnese (made it a part of Italy) and ended Ottoman rule. If so Greece would be very different today.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

The Iberian Empire :whistle:

[Kouros]

:coffee:

[Jana]

I wish the Venetians had annexed the Peloponnese (made it a part of Italy) and ended Ottoman rule. If so Greece would be very different today.

It wouldn't. All Venetian colonies remained stagnant and underdeveloped. When Dalmatia as former Venetian posession was finally added to Habsburg Empire, it entered it as it's poorest and most backward province.

[kleenex]

It wouldn't. All Venetian colonies remained stagnant and underdeveloped. When Dalmatia as former Venetian posession was finally added to Habsburg Empire, it entered it as it's poorest and most backward province.

And what did the Ottomans do for my region of Greece other than create suffering and stagnation? As a Greek Peloponnesian whose ancestors fought the Ottomans (as Klephts) for hundreds of years how can I believe otherwise?

[kleenex]

I am culturally and genetically much closer to Italians so why would I want Ottoman rule (completely alien culturally/genetically) in my ancestral home?

[Jana]

And what did the Ottomans do for my region of Greece other than create suffering and stagnation? As a Greek Peloponnesian whose ancestors fought the Ottomans (as Klephts) for hundreds of years how can I believe otherwise?

I understand :(

But Venetians have been very poor masters. You'd have prettier architecture, and not much more.