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Arahari
08-15-2009, 12:08 PM
http://celto-germanic.blogspot.com/2009/08/horned-god-archetype.html


The horned God is an archetype common in many Aryan mythologies, most especially amongst the northern Europeans.
The renowned Wotanist Ron McVan writing in his Creed of Iron Wotansvolk Wisdom states "Through anthropological research one can trace the line of horned god prototypes back to Paleolithic times. The earliest known representation of such a figure is found painted on the interior walls of the Caverne des Trois Freres in Ariege, France and dates to the late Paleolithic period. Among an assemblage of animals, a figure of a man is clothed in the skin of a stag and wearing on his head the antlers of a stag. It seems evident from the relative position of all the figures that the man is dominant and that he is in the act of performing a ceremony."
He goes on to state "It is into the Bronze Age when the horned figure flourished again among the Indo-European[Aryan] tribes of Egypt, Mesopotamia and India. Horned gods were quite common in Mesopotamia, as in Babylon and Assyria. The copper head found in the gold tombs of Ur is believed to be earlier than the first Egyptian dynasty, displaying an advanced stage of metal working.
When Alexander the Great raised himself above the kings of the earth and declared himself a `god`, he wore a horned head piece as a symbol of his divinity. Polytheism appears to have arisen among the Aryan cultures, East and West, with the amalgamation of tribes, each with its own gods. The horned deities were prevalent throughout Greece and Rome."
Greek mythology has its half man, half bull Minotaur and of course the half human and half goat God Pan.
In Egypt the Goddess Hathor was portrayed with cow`s horns and the God Osiris with the horns of fertility.
However what of the horned Gods of northern Europe?
The most prevalent horned deity is Cernunnos. His image dates back as far as 20,000 years ago and was worshipped in pre-christian Gaul. The Gundestrup cauldron from Denmark features a stag-horned God believed to be Cernunnos. The cauldron dates back to the second-first century BCE.
"As a symbol, the stag is of considerable antiquity in the Celtic or proto-Celtic world. For hunters the stag with its tree-like antlers represented the spirit of the forest; its agility, speed and sexual vigour were admired, and there was a mystery in the autumn shedding and regrowth of the antlers in the spring, which could easily symbolise seasonal death and rebirth.
"Stag symbolism is prominent on the Gundestrup Cauldron where the stag-horned god Cernunnos is associated with a stag and where on another plate, a god grasps a stag in each hand.
"In the case of Cernunnos. who is often represented with a stag as well, being antlered himself, one sees the adoption of the animal-attribute perhaps to symbolise the very close and indeed essential rapport between beast and deity."[The Gods of the Celts. Miranda Green].
Cognate with Cernnunos is the name of the God Cerne, whose image as the Cerne Abbas giant lies on Giant Hill above the village of Cerne Abbas in Dorset, England. He is renowned for his errect phallus and mighty club. The figure does not have horns but Eric L. Fitch author of In Search of Herne the Hunter speculates that Cerne was once horned and thus further linking him with Cernunnos. He also mentions that the name Cornwall in both its English version and its Cornish[Kernow] refers to "the corner, curved shape or horn-like aspect of the principality itself." He further links the name of Cerne to Herne the Hunter.
The Saxon `horn` is cognate with the Latin `cornu`. The letters `h` and `c` are interchangeable between certain Indo-European languages, the `c` often mutating into `h` .
The name Herne can be identified in place-names in Kent and Hampshire. Herne may be derived from the Saxon word `Hyrne` meaning a corner or angle. An alternaive origin for Herne can be traced to `haer` which means a stone or rock and this can be found as a place-name in Bedfordshire. `Cerne` may also be traced back to the Celtic word `cairn`. This is all suggestive of the curvature of the horns or antlers which relate to both Herne and Cernunnos.
"Thus here we see Horn-Herne-Cernunnos-Kernow-Cornu, all aspects of the one theme of the curved horn. It is therefore no surprise to find that a ghostly figure who wears a set of horns or antlers on his head is known by the name of Herne."[In Search of Herne the Hunter].
Herne is linked to the Wild Hunt which is common to all northern European cultures.
"Wild Hunt stories tell of a spectral hunt which courses across country, through forest or across the sky, usually led by some form of demonic personage with an entourage of ghostly horses, hounds, devils, and otherworldly beings. Accompanying the Hunt are all manner of unfortunates. These include unbaptized children, suicides, murderers, adulterers, criminals, blasphemers, witches and freemasons, as well as soldiers, churchmen and courtesans. They are often deformed, with their heads in their chests or facing backwards"[In Search of Herne the Hunter].
In Germanic mythology and folklore the Wild Hunt is led by Odin/Woden/Wotan.
The Wild Hunt in Germanic regions usually occurs during the Twelve Nights of Yuletide on a stormy night. The scholar Hoefler was the first to prove that the legends of the Wild Hunt are "in an exceptional majority reflections of ancient cults of secret societies".[Quoted via Rudolf Simek`s Dictionary of Northern Mythology]. These were Germanic warrior bands and their earliest reference is to be found in Tacitus` Germania: "For their part, the Harii, besides their military might in which they surpass the peoples listed a little above, savage as they are, enhance their inborn ferocity by trickery and timing: their shields are black, their bodies stained, they choose dark nights for battles, and thus inspire terror with their shadowy horror of a ghostly army. None of their enemies can withstand that strange and so to speak hellish sight: for in every battle the eyes are overcome first."[43.4]
"The name `Harri` probably meant something like `warriors` [cf. Gothic harjis, `army`] and presumably had some connection with the battle practices noted here. Many commentators, following the theories of Hoefler[1934], see in this account evidence for the sort of cult group whose memory survived in the widespread Germanic legends about the Wild Hunt, the ghostly riders who ride through the storms during the twelve nights of Yuletide. These would in origin have been bands of warriors dedicated to *Wodenaz as the god of battle fury[Simek]. This theory rests on some striking similarities, but it is impossible to corroborate. Phrases like a `ghostly army` are just as likely to be rhetorical embellishments added by Tacitus; if they are removed, his description would be well suited to a practice of stealth attacks with no particular supernatural associations."[Rives]
Again returning to Ron McVan, "Within the Aryan tradition of the Celts the horn has a long and celebrated lineage. To the Celts horns were a powerful symbol of virility and power. They not only gave their gods horns, but enhanced their chances of success in battle by wearing horned helmets. It was believed that a warrior wearing such headgear would not only stress his own martial and male qualities, but ensure for himself the protection of the deity whose particular attribute they represnted. Kings and priests were, also , horned to indicate their special power. "
[Temple of Wotan].
In addition to the Gundestrup Cauldron the long lost Gallehus horns which date to the beginning of the 5th century CE also depicts anthropomorphic figures with horns or antlers.
The Abbot`s Bromley horned dance is still practiced each year on the first Monday after 4th September at Abbot`s Bromley in Staffordshire.

Albion
10-13-2011, 08:54 PM
A good read, I've developed a similar picture independently before myself as can be seen in a post of mine:



Personally I believe the deity Cernunnos and many other aspects of Celtic religion derive from the Pre-Celtic relgions of Northern Europe.

Take Cernunnos for example, my theory is that it could be a Celtic continuation of the Star Carr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Carr) cult which involved wearing a headdress made from a deer skull.

http://www.archaeologyinmarlow.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/antler-headress-star-carr.jpg
Star Carr headdress

http://astroromp.com/skyla/cernunnos-11_1192291209.jpg
Cernunnos?

http://www.paralada.org/Estonia_self/Estonia_htm/others/CernunnosMMV05.jpg
A modern depiction of Cernunnos - note the portrayal of the antlers, this is similar to the practice at Star Carr

And then the "Anglo-Saxon" and modern Abbots Bromley Horn Dance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbots_Bromley_Horn_Dance) is in my opinion again a continuation of the whole cult at Star Carr and of the Celtic Cernunnos.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/4/43/20090406222556!Abbots_Bromley_Horn_Dance_c1900_Sto ne.jpg
Abbots Bromley

It seems very likely to me that these could be part of a very old element of pagan religions.
The "Horned god" could be a very old Indo-European deity, the image of Cerunnos above is on the Gunderstrup Cauldron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gundestrup_Cauldron) found in Denmark. Many an idiot has concluded that it means that the Cimbri and Teutones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbri) must have been Celts instead of Germanics who were found in this area.
Alternatively you could conclude that "Cernunnos" on the cauldron is instead a common element in many Indo-European pagan religions or that the cauldron was imported.

The Horned God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horned_God) then came to represent European views of the devil, likely influenced by the Horned God of pre-Christian religions.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/Geh%C3%B6rnter_Gott%2C_Enkomi.jpg/387px-Geh%C3%B6rnter_Gott%2C_Enkomi.jpg
The Horned God found in Cyprus - Ignore this, I've revised my view on this and think it might be a bull-horned deity related to Celtic Bal, the horns aren't deer horns. This isnetad probably represents a farming cult which spread with farming and was absorbed into the existing religions and was passed into the Celtic and other pagan traditions latter on.

And back to England, Herne the Hunter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herne_the_Hunter):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Herne_the_Hunter.jpg/800px-Herne_the_Hunter.jpg

And I believe that the Germanic Odin / Woden was also sometimes depicted as having horns or at least wearing them:

http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/odin_pendant.gif

I'm going out on a limb here, but the tradition of displaying deer trophies, just to show of, for status and decoration or perhaps also linked to religious practice where once one's such as this would have been worn? Hung on the wall ready for use?:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Geweihe.jpg/800px-Geweihe.jpg
I see many of these on old doors and walls in England, but much older

So in conclusion there is nothing particularly Celtic about Cernunnos and if you want to witness the survival of this deity in the present day then you'd be better visiting England than Scotland.

Cernunnos just seems to be a manifestation of a Indo-European, or perhaps pre-Indo-European (Star Carr) deity and appears throughout much of Europe in one form or the other.
Well, from Star Carr I'd say it is a very ancient Pre-Indo-European cult which was practised over a wide area and latter became quite a common element in Indo-European pagan religions and then survived when European became Christian in some areas and also influenced European depictions of the devil *perhaps* (Priests on Paganism - Heathen deities must be evil)

The many different names of the "Horned God" is due to folk memory surviving in scattered areas and in each area the memory is different and the differences are magnified over time like Chinese whispers. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_whispers)

If you want to look for Cernunnos then I'd suggest starting in England, there seems to be a lot of folk memory there.
It's quite amazing really, people don't think traditions survive in a country such as Britain but these little hidden practices we tend to not think about probably go back further than we think.

Albion
10-13-2011, 08:56 PM
Cernunnos Worship (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31613)

Hess
10-13-2011, 09:01 PM
would Baphomet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet) be considered an offshoot of the Horned god archetype?

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs49/f/2009/217/8/8/Baphomet_by_shapudl.jpg

Fra Baldracco
10-14-2011, 02:16 PM
would Baphomet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet) be considered an offshoot of the Horned god archetype?

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs49/f/2009/217/8/8/Baphomet_by_shapudl.jpg

yes,the image of Satan and Baphomet comes directly from the pagan european gods of fertility and of the woods,such as cernunnos,pan,silvanus etc

http://img00.elicriso.it/it/mitologia_ambiente/dei/pan/pan.jpg

The Ripper
10-14-2011, 02:22 PM
Something I thought might be related.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule_Goat

Boudica
10-14-2011, 02:26 PM
http://www.paralada.org/Estonia_self/Estonia_htm/others/CernunnosMMV05.jpg

Wtf.

The Ripper
10-14-2011, 02:26 PM
http://www.paralada.org/Estonia_self/Estonia_htm/others/CernunnosMMV05.jpg

Wtf.

Bad idea to go into the woods in Autumn, looking like that.

Fra Baldracco
10-14-2011, 02:28 PM
maybe the guy is looking for some magic mushrooms:D

Argyll
11-22-2011, 09:27 PM
Don't fall for this Horned God nonsense. It was just created by Wiccans. Now, the gods with horns themselves are gods unto themselves. Whil gods with horns may have some things in common, they are not aspects of each other. To think of them as aspects is blasphemous.

Albion
11-22-2011, 09:53 PM
Don't fall for this Horned God nonsense. It was just created by Wiccans. Now, the gods with horns themselves are gods unto themselves. Whil gods with horns may have some things in common, they are not aspects of each other. To think of them as aspects is blasphemous.

What are you on about? As I explained in my post, all of these deities probably have a common origin. I formulated this conclusion independently as I've never been stupid or bored enough to even bother looking at Wicca. I base it on the evidence presented and evidence there is in abundance.
You're jumping the gun a bit here.

Baron Samedi
11-22-2011, 10:48 PM
Heill Cernunnos!

Argyll
11-23-2011, 12:45 AM
What are you on about? As I explained in my post, all of these deities probably have a common origin. I formulated this conclusion independently as I've never been stupid or bored enough to even bother looking at Wicca. I base it on the evidence presented and evidence there is in abundance.
You're jumping the gun a bit here.

I'm saying that people often go on about the similarities between things, but never take the differences into consideration.

Albion
11-23-2011, 12:47 AM
I'm saying that people often go on about the similarities between things, but never take the differences into consideration.

The differences are minimal and are always taken into opinion. More often than not something which is related to something else is ignored as such because people don't see the links or dismiss them.
With the Horned god it is very clear that it isn't a load of independent developments but instead is from a common origin.

Argyll
11-23-2011, 12:55 AM
The differences are minimal and are always taken into opinion. More often than not something which is related to something else is ignored as such because people don't see the links or dismiss them.
With the Horned god it is very clear that it isn't a load of independent developments but instead is from a common origin.

What are the similarities between Cernunno and Odin? :confused: I don't believe in this 'common origin' thing.

Osweo
11-23-2011, 12:55 AM
You don't have to turn your brain off when you admit the sacredness of something, Argyll. In this particular case, there IS a good case for a (VERY ancient) commonality being involved.

And why can't we speculate on things? Surely there must be some particular idea to grasp in the giving of horns to gods? Or is it gods to horns....? :chin:

Albion
11-23-2011, 01:18 AM
What are the similarities between Cernunno and Odin? :confused: I don't believe in this 'common origin' thing.

Who mentioned Odin? Read my post. The Horned god was worshipped millennia ago at Starr Carr in England and continued right through to the British Celtic Paganism as Cerrunos.

Argyll
11-23-2011, 01:25 AM
You don't have to turn your brain off when you admit the sacredness of something, Argyll. In this particular case, there IS a good case for a (VERY ancient) commonality being involved.

And why can't we speculate on things? Surely there must be some particular idea to grasp in the giving of horns to gods? Or is it gods to horns....? :chin:

I'm not turning my brain, I'm just not jumping on the bandwagon for saying all gods are aspects of gods in different pantheons because they share some similarities. However, I believe the reason for gods sharing similar looks or aspects is that they simply shared portfolio bits. Plus, I suffer from multiculturalist scars from my time as being a Wiccan, so I may treat this with a bit more scorn than I should P.S. My experiences with Cernunnos has vastly influenced this.

Argyll
11-23-2011, 01:27 AM
Who mentioned Odin? Read my post. The Horned god was worshipped millennia ago at Starr Carr in England and continued right through to the British Celtic Paganism as Cerrunos.

Sorry about that. I got Odin and Starr Carr mixed up. Is it Germanic?

Albion
11-23-2011, 01:32 AM
Sorry about that. I got Odin and Starr Carr mixed up. Is it Germanic?

Odin is Germanic, Starr Carr was Mesolithic (Middle Stone Age). The memory of the Starr Carr cult probably was retained by successive people and passed through the religious developments before entering the Celtic religion which built on top of many original beliefs.

Argyll
11-23-2011, 02:09 AM
Odin is Germanic, Starr Carr was Mesolithic (Middle Stone Age). The memory of the Starr Carr cult probably was retained by successive people and passed through the religious developments before entering the Celtic religion which built on top of many original beliefs.

I'm of the idea that Celts were the decendents of those people, the megalithic people. I really want to get into arcaeology, British arch. because it is the most fascinating to me.

Baron Samedi
11-23-2011, 03:17 AM
I have experienced Cernunnos... He is greater than ANY god I have ever interacted with, or thought I did.... The true bastion of my soul.

HEILL!

Albion
11-23-2011, 10:06 PM
I'm of the idea that Celts were the decendents of those people, the megalithic people. I really want to get into arcaeology, British arch. because it is the most fascinating to me.

The British Isles have a lot of continuation really. The whole horned god thing lasted since the Stone Age to Iron Age despite new religious practices being brought in or developing.

The megaliths pre-date the Celtic culture but the Celtic tribes in these islands largely descended from the previous peoples here anyway.

The megaliths don't have much to do with Celts or Germanics apart from that the Celts and Germanics largely descended from the populations who built them and back to the original stone age recolonisers of Northern Europe.

Megaliths occur throughout NW Europe and at their highest concentration in the British Isles with about 8,000 or so of them. They are also found in the Germanic homelands too, but not the Celtic homeland in Central Europe.

The megaliths have more of a relation to the Pre-Celtic and Pre-Germanic Beaker Culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture) which just happened to have its origins in Germany and spread in a similar way to the latter Celtic culture - small migrations.
The Beaker Culture is really the first major cultural area of Western Europe. Life wouldn't have been too different from that in the Iron Age - settled, farming - a mix of arable and pastoral, similar building styles (perhaps early roundhouses in Britain and rectangular ones in Germany), etc.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Beaker_culture.png

Argyll
11-23-2011, 11:04 PM
I'm betting that the Celts probable settled parts of southern Denmark, as they have found several Celtic artefacts there, including the famous Gundestrup Cauldrun,which depicts Cernunnos and other Celtic deities. I don't know if someone can go on and say that the Celts originated from Central Europe just because they found the oldest settlement there. I read in a book, Who Were the Celts, that an archaeologist found similar spiral designs on New Grange and on Celtic Women's brooches.

Albion
11-24-2011, 06:24 PM
I'm betting that the Celts probable settled parts of southern Denmark, as they have found several Celtic artefacts there, including the famous Gundestrup Cauldrun,which depicts Cernunnos and other Celtic deities. I don't know if someone can go on and say that the Celts originated from Central Europe just because they found the oldest settlement there. I read in a book, Who Were the Celts, that an archaeologist found similar spiral designs on New Grange and on Celtic Women's brooches.

The Cimbri and Teutones showed a few imported art styles and were likely Celtic-influenced but they were no Celts.

Osweo
11-24-2011, 07:05 PM
That cauldron was most likely either NICKED, or given as a diplomatic (dynastic marriage?) gift to regional leaders.

Piparskeggr
11-24-2011, 07:36 PM
Would Herne be likewise an echo of folk memory?

Argyll
11-24-2011, 08:02 PM
That cauldron was most likely either NICKED, or given as a diplomatic (dynastic marriage?) gift to regional leaders.

That came across my mind as well.

Argyll
11-24-2011, 08:06 PM
Would Herne be likewise an echo of folk memory?

We can't really say if Herne was a real deity. The farthest back of him being mentioned is in one of Shakespear's plays. Wiccans are well known for deifying historical people such as Morgan le Fay and Morgause/Margawse.