Sezione sicula

[Peyrol]

Pare che sia stata richiesta a gran voce, ma prima di ogni decisione definitiva istituisco questo ''plebiscito''...voi cosa ne pensate?

Personalmente non sono d'accordo: se ogni cultura italia avesse il suo subforum, avremmo un casino madornale.

[alfieb]

A gran voce :lol: Siamo un popolo modesto.

Sicily is not every region. It was a kingdom for over 700 years. It is an autonomous island of its own with a language of its own, a parliament of its own and a president of its own. Sicily pays no tax to Rome. It should have a forum of its own.

Sardinia should also have a forum, but as I am not Sardinian that is not my business.

Italians on this forum have conceded that we are not the same as them, because we have Middle East ancestry while Italians do not. There are obvious biases among individuals with their own agendas, but we should be able to agree that autonomous regions should be able to be autonomous.

If Sudtirolese people want a forum for Alto Adige, I would not argue with that. It is not a matter of North vs. South or Italian vs. secession.

[Sicilianu101]

A gran voce :lol: Siamo un popolo modesto.

Sicily is not every region. It was a kingdom for over 700 years. It is an autonomous island of its own with a language of its own, a parliament of its own and a president of its own. Sicily pays no tax to Rome. It should have a forum of its own.

Sardinia should also have a forum, but as I am not Sardinian that is not my business.

Italians on this forum have conceded that we are not the same as them, because we have Middle East ancestry while Italians do not. There are obvious biases among individuals with their own agendas, but we should be able to agree that autonomous regions should be able to be autonomous.

If Sudtirolese people want a forum for Alto Adige, I would not argue with that. It is not a matter of North vs. South or Italian vs. secession.

Agreed!! :)

[Sikeliot]

If Cornwall can have their own subforum when (as far as I know) we have no Cornish members and they are not an independent nation but just a bunch of vocal pseudo-Celts who think they're somehow not English, then Sicily should get one too.

[Clawgauth]

Non ha alcun senso secondo me, è bello avere un unico sub forum dove appunto affrontiamo le varie differenze di tutta l'italia.
Nulla mi impedirebbe di richiedere una sezione nord est perchè anche noi abbiamo influenze diverse,non ha alcun senso..

[alfieb]

From what I hear, the argument against seems to be that if Sicily gets a forum, every region should.

There are only a few autonomous regions. Sicilian and Sardinian are unique languages spoken by distinct ethnic groups who are not geographically part of Italy - that is to say, only politically Italian.

But again, if you want to add a forum for South Tyrol and Aosta Valley too just because North Italians are jealous, go right ahead. :)

[Sikeliot]

If Lombards to Sicilians are all just "Italian" then Scots, English, Welsh, Cornish etc. are all just "Brits".

[Clawgauth]

Italy - that is to say, only politically Italian.

But again, if you want to add a forum for South Tyrol and Aosta Valley too just because North Italians are jealous, go right ahead. :)

It seems that only sicilian-american want this sub forum.
Another reason.


If Lombards to Sicilians are all just "Italian" then Scots, English, Welsh, Cornish etc. are all just "Brits".

And then make a sub forum for every region of italy.

[alfieb]

And then make a sub forum for every region of italy.

Why would Lazio need a forum? What language do they speak? What makes them different from people from Toscana?

People only vote against for selfish reasons. I have no control over jealousy.

The criteria should be autonomy. Campania and Liguria are not autonomous. Sicilia and Alto Adige are.

[Sikeliot]

I think one of two things should happen.

1) We only go by the UN definition of nationhood which means no subforums for Scotland, England, Wales, Cornwall, Wallonia, or Flanders...

OR

2) If we're going to define those non-nations as having a subforum, Sicily needs one too.

[alfieb]

I think one of two things should happen.

1) We only go by the UN definition of nationhood which means no subforums for Scotland, England, Wales, Cornwall, Wallonia, or Flanders...

OR

2) If we're going to define those non-nations as having a subforum, Sicily needs one too.

Or Northern Ireland.

Who don't even have their own flag. The one we use is not official. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_flags_issue)

[Clawgauth]

Why would Lazio need a forum? What language do they speak? What makes them different from people from Toscana?

People only vote against for selfish reasons. I have no control over jealousy.

The criteria should be autonomy.

It means nothing to me
I already explain myself, we don't need another sub forum because Italy includes val da osta,trentino alto adige,friuli,sardegna and sicilia .
How much sub forums deserve the Russian for their ethnic and cultural background?

[Sikeliot]

Or Northern Ireland.

Who don't even have their own flag.

I didn't realize there was one for them too.

I think it's unfair people try to force Sicilians into a generic "Italian" label but have no issue making distinctions for a plethora of other non-nations like Galicia, Catalunya, the parts of the UK, Brittany, Alsace-Lorraine, and Bavaria.

[alfieb]

It means nothing to me
I already explain myself, we don't need another sub forum because Italy includes val da osta,trentino alto adige,friuli,sardegna and sicilia .
How much sub forums deserve the Russian forr theyr ethnic and cultural background?
If there were enough Russian Tatars here, I think they would probably get a forum for Tatarstan. They are autonomous and have their own language. True, it is Turkic, but Turkey has a forum.

If regions in Belgium and the UK have subforums, then there has to be the same for others.

[Clawgauth]

Personally I want to know the other italians and sicilians opinions now

[Peyrol]

Allora voglio anche una sezione piemontese, visto che come entità etnolinguistica esistiamo dal 900 D.C. (A.D. for the english speakers).

[alfieb]

Allora voglio anche una sezione piemontese, visto che come entità etnolinguistica esistiamo dal 900 D.C. (A.D. for the english speakers).


Location: Torino

http://traitdunion-online.eu/margotmasci/files/2012/02/IMMAGINE-ITALIA2.jpg

:lol:


Le Regioni a Statuto ordinario:

Abruzzo
Basilicata
Calabria
Campania
Emilia-Romagna
Lazio
Liguria
Lombardia
Marche
Molise
Piemonte
Puglia
Toscana
Umbria
Veneto

Why would you need a subforum? You created Italy. This whole forum is yours.

[Peyrol]

^

E nonostante paghiamo buona parte delle nostre tasse a Roma, abbiamo i ''picciuli''...misteri.

[Graham]

I think one of two things should happen.

1) We only go by the UN definition of nationhood which means no subforums for Scotland, England, Wales, Cornwall, Wallonia, or Flanders...



NOOOOOOOOO! :D Neg repped lol

[alfieb]

NOOOOOOOOO! :D Neg repped lol

I've posted in the Scotland forum and hope it's moved to a main forum in a few years when you become independent like the Irish. :)

[Prince Carlo]

Never! Diving Italy is an offense to our ancestors.

[Sikeliot]

There isn't going to be one after all, so those of you who didn't want it can rejoice.

[alfieb]

There isn't going to be one after all, so those of you who didn't want it can rejoice.

Yay.

[askra]

Dipende, quanti membri siciliani ci sono nel sito? se sono tanti ok, ma creare una sezione apposita per poche persone mi sembra una richiesta eccessiva.
E' come se io reclamassi una sezione sulla sardegna solo per me, dove aprire topics per rispondere a me stesso.

[Peyrol]

Dipende, quanti membri siciliani ci sono nel sito? se sono tanti ok, ma creare una sezione apposita per poche persone mi sembra una richiesta eccessiva.
E' come se io reclamassi una sezione sulla sardegna solo per me, dove aprire topics per rispondere a me stesso.

Si, anche quello...ci fossero dieci siculi avrebbe senso...siccome sono solo ''tre'' (tra l'altro siculo-americani, e non siculo-trinacriani veri e propri) mi pare eccessivo.

[Clawgauth]

gli unici che ci sono sono siculo-americani

Non ha alcun senso aprire una sezione sicula solo per loro, lontani dalla loro ''patria'',che probabilmente manco hanno mai visto.
A sto punto voglio anche io piu sotto-forum per ogni cultura e tradizione che c'è in italia,ma perdiamo completamente il senso di ''italianità'' ossia quella curiosità di mettere a confronto tutte le nostre culture e tradizione, e ne converrete che in Italia ce ne sono tante,simili o completamente diverse.

[Peyrol]

gli unici che ci sono sono siculo-americani

Non ha alcun senso aprire una sezione sicula solo per loro, lontani dalla loro ''patria'',che probabilmente manco hanno mai visto.
A sto punto voglio anche io piu sotto-forum per ogni cultura e tradizione che c'è in italia,ma perdiamo completamente il senso di ''italianità'' ossia quella curiosità di mettere a confronto tutte le nostre culture e tradizione, e ne converrete che in Italia ce ne sono tante,simili o completamente diverse.

Già, per questo credo che la scelta migliore sia la sezione ''italiana'' unica e singola.

[Loki]

Sicily only became part of Italy in 1860 ... and given special status as autonomous region in 1946.

I can therefore understand the desire of Sicilians to have a section on their own - we could make a sub-forum under the Italian one.

[Clawgauth]

Sicily only became part of Italy in 1860 ... and given special status as autonomous region in 1946.

I can therefore understand the desire of Sicilians to have a section on their own - we could make a sub-forum under the Italian one.

but the only users who want the sub-section are sicilian american...
Have no sense.. I can understand it if there are many native sicilian who want it..

[Peyrol]

Sicily only became part of Italy in 1860 ... and given special status as autonomous region in 1946.

I can therefore understand the desire of Sicilians to have a section on their own - we could make a sub-forum under the Italian one.

All the peninsula became ''Italy'' only in 1861...

Btw, the ''Regioni a Statuto Speciale'' are five, not only Sicily:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Autonomous_Regions_of_Italy.svg


...don't mind also the fact that all the ''sicilian'' users here are sicilian americans and not sicilian-trinacrians from the island...

[CVCV]

Sicily only became part of Italy in 1860 ... and given special status as autonomous region in 1946.

I can therefore understand the desire of Sicilians to have a section on their own - we could make a sub-forum under the Italian one.

Actually, Italy only became part of Italy in 1861.

[Sicilianu101]

so no Sicily sub-forum :'(

[Ira di Dio]

Solo quando verrà aperta la sezione lombarda. Cioè mai.

[Peyrol]

Solo quando verrà aperta la sezione lombarda. Cioè mai.

Esatto.

[Sicilianu101]

Perche non aprirete un sub-forum basato sul "Lega Nord"? loool.
Lo so che ogni regione del Italia potrebbe avere un sub-forum, perche le nostre culture sono molto varie, ma la Sicilia e la Sardegna sono isole, che vuol dire che siamo un po piu isolati (specialmente la Sardegna) dal resto del Italia.

[Ira di Dio]

Perche non aprirete un sub-forum basato sul "Lega Nord"? loool.
Cazzo se sei spiritoso.


Lo so che ogni regione del Italia potrebbe avere un sub-forum, perche le nostre culture sono molto varie, ma la Sicilia e la Sardegna sono isole, che vuol dire che siamo un po piu isolati (specialmente la Sardegna) dal resto del Italia.
Per la Sardegna puoi fare questo discorso. Molto meno per la Sicilia che ha quasi tutto in comune con la Calabria, che è sul continente. I siciliani hanno già uno statuto autonomo, non gli servono anche sezioni separate nei forum.

[alfieb]

but the only users who want the sub-section are sicilian american...
Have no sense.. I can understand it if there are many native sicilian who want it..

I am Sicilian-Sicilian. My parents are Italian - that is, by nationality. I have lived in Italy. I am an Italian citizen. I speak Sicilian. I live in New York, and given the unemployment numbers in Western Sicily, I expect to remain here for the near future. I'm going back to Sicily for a few months next year to see family, though.

How often have you, or any of the other Italians here been to Sicily? How many awful Alitalia planes that must be 50 years old have you flown on from Rome or Milan to Palermo or Catania? You certainly know less than this "American" does. Sicilianu101 is 100% Sicilian, and I'd imagine he's entitled to Italian citizenship as well.

There should be a section on this forum for our language, history, culture, politics, and this Italian forum, with hostile Italians, is not a good fit.

To ignore the diaspora is sheer ignorance. There are 60m "Italians" in Italy, but more than that in North and South America. How many of them are Sicilians? We'll never know, but I'd love to find out.

[MM81]

A gran voce
Sicily is not every region. It was a kingdom for over 700 years.
Well also Liguria was an independent state for 700 years (Republic of Genoa) and, no offense, it was far more important in the european geopolitical scenario than Sicily. But it would be a non sense if the two ligurians (me included) of the forum asked for a "separate" section... It's the same for Sicily, or any other region. The fact Sicily is a regione a statuto speciale (special administrative area), isn't enough IMO to justify a sicilian section of the Apricity.

[Ira di Dio]

I am Sicilian-Sicilian.
Ma smettila di fare il pagliaccio, come altri qui sei un cazzo di americano con antenati da 300 parti del mondo che però si identifica coi siciliani e gioca a fare il Bandito Giuliano della situazione. Col tuo passaporto mi ci pulisco le mie principesche natiche padane.


How often have you, or any of the other Italians here been to Sicily? You certainly know less than this "American" does.
Una sola volta, ma sono letteralmente circondato da gente di origine siciliana. Molti di loro sono amici e nè loro nè i loro genitori nati e cresciuti sull'isola (nemmeno uno di loro) si rendono ridicoli come fate continuamente voi due o tre pirla, con l'altro coglione che si fa le foto con la papalina e la cartina della Sicilia con le scritte in arabo...

Se davvero i siciliani fossero come voi sarei il primo felice di mandarli affanculo a farsi il loro stato del terzo mondo con la Tunisia e la Libia ma come ti ho detto siete solo un paio di americani esaltati che non hanno idea di cosa stanno parlando.

Sai, avevamo un siciliano VERO qua nel sito e guarda caso è stato bannato proprio dal tuo "conterraneo" amministratore del forum perchè - toh che strano... - non era esattamente d'accordo con lui.

Ora basta cazzo.

[alfieb]

1. I have Ligurian roots myself and I have nothing bad to say about Genova.
2. Liguria is no less a part of Italy than Campania is. We're autonomous, and our language is not related to any other language in Italy, while yours is.
3. The Republic of Genoa was never independent. It was in the Holy Roman Empire along with all of Northern Italy except Venice.
4. Liguria became part of Piemonte-Sardinia long ago and without any issue. We were annexed illegally by a foreign mercenary army and were more or less colonized. Our constitution was abolished. We went from 7 provinces to 9. Our nobility and customs thrown away. And for what? The last 150 years have done nothing for us. Every town in Sicily has a street named after Garibaldi. You know it wasn't Sicilians who did that. He isn't our national hero.

[alfieb]

Ma smettila di fare il pagliaccio, come altri qui sei un cazzo di americano con antenati da 300 parti del mondo che però si identifica coi siciliani e gioca a fare il Bandito Giuliano della situazione. Col tuo passaporto mi ci pulisco le mie principesche natiche padane.
It's guys like this, Loki, that explain why I cannot in all seriousness post in this Italian forum. He says he wipes his Northern Italian (ironically, using a secessionist term?) ass on my passport.



Una sola volta, ma sono letteralmente circondato da gente di origine siciliana. Molti di loro sono amici e nè loro nè i loro genitori nati e cresciuti sull'isola (nemmeno uno di loro) si rendono ridicoli come fate continuamente voi due o tre pirla, con l'altro coglione che si fa le foto con la papalina e la cartina della Sicilia con le scritte in arabo...

Se davvero i siciliani fossero come voi sarei il primo felice di mandarli affanculo a farsi il loro stato del terzo mondo con la Tunisia e la Libia ma come ti ho detto siete solo un paio di americani esaltati che non hanno idea di cosa stanno parlando.

Sai, avevamo un siciliano VERO qua nel sito e guarda caso è stato bannato proprio dal tuo "conterraneo" amministratore del forum perchè - toh che strano... - non era esattamente d'accordo con lui.

Ora basta cazzo.

Io non ho intenzione di parlare con te nella lingua del colonialismo.

You have a lot of vulgarity there. Cheers for that. I don't recall using foul language, but you and your condescending friends apparently don't have the same courtesy!

I don't speak for the other Sicilians here, only myself. I've had Turiddu Giulianu in my avatar many times in the past, and I have "his" flag in my signature now. I am honored by the comparison. He was a true patriot.

[Peyrol]

No aspetta...la foto in papalina e corano me la sono persa...link??? :lol::lol::lol:

[Slycooper]

Italians fighting amongst themselves.

[Peyrol]

Italians fighting amongst themselves.

As we did from 476 A.D. to 1918 :lol:

[MM81]

^The Holy Roman Empire was little more than a joke, at least from the late Middle Ages till its end in 1806.
Genoa was formally part of it until 1648, but was substancially independent like all the other principalities, duchies and republics included in the HRE since around mid XII century. We had colonies in Crimea, Sardinia, even Gibraltar, and our "national" bank (Banco di S. Giorgio) had a fundamental role in financing the spanish conquest of America. So, I think we have some history behind, autonomous or not...! But we are italian, and we played a role in the unification process, although history records an independentist revolt in 1848 in Genoa, against the Savoia. Some historians say it was just a "pro-republic" revolt, but anyway, that's not the point.
Sicilians today feel "italian" just like ligurians do. I've never known a sicilian independentist in my whole life before joining the Apricity - and my aunt's husband is from Casteltermini, and I've visited the island extensively.
Ligurian is related to the northern dialects of Italy, correct. Sicilian is related to the southern ones: it belongs to the category of the dialetti meridionali estremi.
26858

[Ira di Dio]

It's guys like this, Loki, that explain why I cannot in all seriousness post in this Italian forum. He says he wipes his Northern Italian (ironically, using a secessionist term?) ass on my passport.
Cosa c'entra Loki adesso? Sbaglio o sei quello che diceva che andare a fare la spia alla maestra era "da froci"? E naturalmente il riferimento alle mie chiappe "padane" era ironico, ma che te lo sto a spiegare...


Io non ho intenzione di parlare con te nella lingua del colonialismo.
Davvero tu credi che esista un siciliano IRL che direbbe una frase del genere? Spero che tu stia semplicemente trollando perchè se no giuro che sono alle comiche...


You have a lot of vulgarity there. Cheers for that. I don't recall using foul language, but you and your condescending friends apparently don't have the same courtesy!
Nel caso tu non te ne sia accorto questo è un forum in lingua italiana, che è la mia lingua tanto quanto lo è di un siciliano. Se mi rivolgo a te in inglese lo faccio solo per cortesia, ma non lo meriti.

[alfieb]

No, it doesn't belong to any category. It is a language, and the dialects in Calabria and Puglia are dialects of Sicilian. (http://scn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_siciliana#Parrati_siciliani_di_Sicilia) That's not a secessionist's biased opinion. It is the opinion of Ethnologue, the authority on the subject.

[Slycooper]

Sicily as being a region of Italy has a section. Were in it right now.

[Ira di Dio]

No aspetta...la foto in papalina e corano me la sono persa...link??? :lol::lol::lol:
Non mi è permesso postare foto di altri membri. Andate a vedervi le foto che Sicilianu ha caricato nel suo profilo e fatevi due risate (o meglio, fatevi un bel pianto)...

[Peyrol]

Oddio, definire uno stato come la Repubblica di Genova ''minore'' o peggio ancora ''insignificante'' mi pare un po'....fazioso.

[Slycooper]

I know a Sicillian who is very proud of being Italian.

[Virtuous]

Cazzu, minchiu', no Maltu sezzionu'?

VAFFANCULU'!

No dai scherzu :D

[alfieb]

I know a Sicillian who is very proud of being Italian.
I know Bosniaks who were pro-Yugoslavia.

I've never said that all, or even most Sicilians are secessionist, but you won't find many waving the tricolore in the street unless it's related to an azzurri win in football. Most Sicilians want more autonomy. That's why MpA won the election in 2008 with 2/3 of the vote.

Like I said on the first page, this is not a north/south or Italy/secession issue. It's an autonomy issue. It's a separate ethnicity issue. It's a culture issue and a language issue. Wales is not independent of the UK and probably never will be, but there is a Welsh forum here.

[Prince Carlo]

I am pretty sure that your random Sicilian from Sicily perceives Sicilian-Americans as more foreign than any other Italian.

[alfieb]

How many times are you going to recycle tired argument, because you have nothing better?

"American" this, "American" that. I have about 700 facebook check-ins in the USA and about 550 in Sicily and Italy. Yeah, I'm the foreigner. Not the guy who doesn't speak their language and has been to the island like, twice? :rolleyes:

The only Sicilian on the site who doesn't at least speak Italian is Sikeliot. The rest of us are Italian citizens or entitled to be citizens.

[Prince Carlo]

How many times are you going to recycle tired argument, because you have nothing better?

I am more connected to Italy than any of you Americans, and know my birds quite well. If you don't like being called "american", then why are you still living in NY?

[alfieb]

I am more connected to Italy than any of you Americans, and know my birds quite well. If you don't like being called "american", then why are you still living in NY?
Money. Unemployment for young people in Sicily is at 40%.

Plus, my parents and siblings live here, so that helps.

[Ira di Dio]

The rest of us are Italian citizens or entitled to be citizens.
Chi ha detto che non lo siete, alfieb? Anche Mario Balotelli (che comunque considero culturalmente 100 volte più italiano/siciliano di uno che si fa le foto conciato come il figlio di Bin Laden) ha un passaporto italiano, per quello che vale.

[Ira di Dio]

...

[MM81]

MPA (Movimento per le Autonomie) is not and independentist party at all. Easy to understand: look at their logo
26889
The party was founded by the dumbest politician ever born, Raffaele Lombardo, who was elected governor of Sicily and almost took it to technical default last year... He actually BOUGHT the votes of unemployed people that he employed in public offices with no financial backing at all... Anyway, Lombardo was a member of the UDC, che cristian democratic union, the real main force in Sicily. He complained about the centralism of the party, that he meant as a federation of local sections. His "autonomy" is the autonomy of periphereal cells of a main national party from the central leadership...Not the "struggle" to obtain more autonomy from the central government.

[alfieb]

When the hell did I call MpA secessionist, amicu? I said that most Sicilians want more autonomy and hence elected an autonomist party by a wide margin.

Nobody on here has provided a solitary valid reason as to why a Sicilian subforum here would be a bad thing.

All I've heard was:

If you give [x] a forum, you need to give me a forum too!
Sicilians are Italians!
You're American!

And if those strawmen are all you have, then you really have nothing.

It would create more activity, and provide more knowledge about an area that doesn't really get a lot of attention outside of "crime this, mafia that", and a language that gets even less coverage. The entirety of Apricity would benefit, not only short-sighted Italian nationalists.

[alfieb]

:lol: the Sons of Garibaldi have nothing to say. Comu pinsavu.

[Sikeliot]

A Sicilian section would be good considering it will be a place to discuss Sicily separately, since Italian users complain when every "Italian" thread turns into being all about Sicily.

[alfieb]

Yeah, your smod buddy who changed his name (not to be rude, I just don't remember what his new name is offhand) was saying in a Northern Italian thread that he hated the lack of interest about the topic and insisted that it would be up to 50 pages by lunch time if it was about Sicilians.

[Incal]

MPA (Movimento per le Autonomie) is not and independentist party at all. Easy to understand: look at their logo
26889
The party was founded by the dumbest politician ever born, Raffaele Lombardo, who was elected governor of Sicily and almost took it to technical default last year...

Quite ironic.

[alfieb]

Quite ironic.

Even more ironic...

http://isaac.guidasicilia.it/foto/news/personaggi/berlusconi_lombardo_N.jpg

The Sicilian President (at the time), Lombardo, looked more Northern Italian than the Italian Prime Minister, Berlusconi, from Lombardia. :lol:

[Ira di Dio]

When the hell did I call MpA secessionist, amicu? I said that most Sicilians want more autonomy and hence elected an autonomist party by a wide margin.
E allora, cosa vorresti dimostrare? Quale regione non vuole più autonomia amministrativa?


Nobody on here has provided a solitary valid reason as to why a Sicilian subforum here would be a bad thing.
E' il contrario: nessuno ha ancora dato una valida ragione per cui una sezione separata per la Sicilia dovrebbe essere creata.


If you give [x] a forum, you need to give me a forum too!
Sicilians are Italians!
You're American!
Tutte affermazioni più che ragionevoli.


It would create more activity, and provide more knowledge about an area that doesn't really get a lot of attention outside of "crime this, mafia that", and a language that gets even less coverage. The entirety of Apricity would benefit, not only short-sighted Italian nationalists.
Qua l'unico esaltato nazionalista che vedo (ridicolo come solo gli esaltati nazionalisti sanno essere) sei tu, un americano di origine siculo-ligure-lombardo-basca e dio sa cos'altro. Renditi conto.


Even more ironic...

http://isaac.guidasicilia.it/foto/news/personaggi/berlusconi_lombardo_N.jpg

The Sicilian President (at the time), Lombardo, looked more Northern Italian than the Italian Prime Minister, Berlusconi, from Lombardia. :lol:
:picard2: Lombardo ha una faccia ultra terronica e il fatto che tu dica che sembra settentrionale la dice lunga su come tu non abbia idea delle cazzate che stai sparando.

E la faccia di Berlusconi è più finta della papalina islamica del tuo socio...

[alfieb]

E allora, cosa vorresti dimostrare? Quale regione non vuole più autonomia amministrativa?
Regions that don't elect autonomist parties, I would imagine?



E' il contrario: nessuno ha ancora dato una valida ragione per cui una sezione separata per la Sicilia dovrebbe essere creata.
Because Sicily has its own culture, language, cuisine, history, and identity, separate from Italy. Sicilians are genetically not the same as Italians, either, for that matter. Not to mention that the Italians on the forum are far from polite.



Tutte affermazioni più che ragionevoli.
Not at all. My location is irrelevant, Sicilians have never been considered the same as Italians. Even Mussolini reluctantly admitted as much.

Unemployment in Sicily for young adults is 40%. Overall it is over 20%. For someone with dual-citizenship to choose to live there right now would be foolish. If I went to Sicily now and got a job, I would be taking one away from someone who probably needs it more than I do.


Qua l'unico esaltato nazionalista che vedo (ridicolo come solo gli esaltati nazionalisti sanno essere) sei tu, un americano di origine siculo-ligure-lombardo-basco e dio sa cos'altro. Renditi conto.
An Italian citizen, who was born in the United States, whose parents were born in Italy. Three quarters Sicilian, one eighth Lombard, one eighth Ligurian. The town in Liguria where my relatives come from is heavily Basque, so I said I might be part Basque, but there is no proof of it. Since you seem to be quite interested in my own background.


Lombardo sembra settentrionale?... :picard2: Lombardo ha una faccia ultra terronica e il fatto che tu dica che sembra settentrionale la dice lunga su come tu non abbia idea delle cazzate che stai sparando. E la faccia di Berlusconi è più finta della papalina islamica del tuo socio...
I never said that Lombardo appears Northern. I would never imply that he should be a Leghista. I said that he looks more Northern than Silvio does. Lighter complexion, lighter hair, lighter eyes, etc.

[Ira di Dio]

Regions that don't elect autonomist parties, I would imagine?
Cazzata. La stragrande maggioranza degli italiani vorrebbe più autonomia a casa propria. Ma tu vivi in America, ed è normale che non lo sappia.


Because Sicily has its own culture, language, cuisine, history, and identity, separate from Italy. Sicilians are genetically not the same as Italians, either, for that matter.
Anch'io sono diverso da un lucano. E da un abruzzese. E da un toscano. E allora?


I said that he looks more Northern than Silvio does. Lighter complexion, lighter hair, lighter eyes, etc.
I tratti di Berlusconi sono alpinidi. E, sempre a conferma che non sai di cosa parli, sembri ignorare del tutto che la sua abbronzatura e i suoi capelli sono FINTI.

[Prince Carlo]

Sicilians are rather selfish and want to live on the money of Italians without working. They blackmail the state with the threat of secession to get more money. But of couse they know that without Italy, they would become a new Lebanon in a couple of decades because they don't have a serious economy. The same is true for Sardinia to a much lesser extent.

[alfieb]

Cazzata. La stragrande maggioranza degli italiani vorrebbe più autonomia a casa propria. Ma tu vivi in America, ed è normale che non lo sappia.
Where are their secessionist and autonomist parties? Well, other than Lega Nord, who invented a fake country. Long Live Padania!



Anch'io sono diverso da un lucano. E da un abruzzese. E da un toscano. E allora?
Now who's talking bullshit? Abruzzo has never been independent. Basilicata has never been independent. Abruzzo was never Greek. Tuscany was never Greek. Sicily was Greek-speaking and Orthodox until around the time of the Crusades!


I tratti di Berlusconi sono alpinidi. E, sempre a conferma che non sai di cosa parli, sembri ignorare del tutto che la sua abbronzatura e i suoi capelli sono FINTI.
How does wearing a wig change anything? He has always had black hair. He is darker than most Lombards, while Lombardo is lighter than most Sicilians. You are just looking to make an argument of everything. It is pathetic.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/11/12/1321125347639/Silvio-Berlusconi-singing-007.jpg

He could fit in any town in Sicily. :lol:

[Ira di Dio]

But of couse they know that without Italy, they would become a new Lebanon in a couple of decades because they don't have a serious economy.
Ai "siciliani" di questo sito sono sicuro che l'dea non gli dispiacerebbe ;)

[MM81]

My final opinion, and I won't return to this thread anymore because it's a simple waste of time, is: do your sicilian section, if you like. But if you want to use it as a means to spread unrealistic and fictional ideas about a non existent struggle of the sicilian nation (?) to gain more autonomy or even independence from a state, the Italian Republic, they feel their own in real life, then don't be angry or accuse italian members of rudeness or unwelcome meddling with your "affairs" here.
Sicily is not late 80's Bosnia, ready to explode to gain independence from the evil "invaders"...

[alfieb]

@Ira / Capelli - you're ignorant, prejudiced, and acting like fools.

Malta has 1/10th of the population of Sicily. They are the closest relatives we have. They are their own country. If they can survive independently, so can we.

[Ira di Dio]

Now who's talking bullshit? Abruzzo has never been independent. Basilicata has never been independent. Abruzzo was never Greek. Tuscany was never Greek. Sicily was Greek-speaking and Orthodox until around the time of the Crusades!
Oltre che pagliaccio sei anche disonesto! Rigira pure la frittata, tanto non funziona... Hai detto:"Sicily has its own culture, language, cuisine, history, and identity, separate from Italy. Sicilians are genetically not the same as Italians". Beh sostituisci "Sicily" e "Sicilians" col nome di qualsiasi regione italiana e quello che ho detto rimane valido...

Sai cosa ti dico? Ho cambiato idea, voi tre pirla dovreste farvi la vostra sezione siciliana (anzi, siculo-americana) così non sono più costretto a leggere le cazzate che mi/ci propinate quotidianamente. Salam.

[alfieb]

What language do they speak natively in Firenze? :picard1::picard2:

Take it up with the government, not me.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Autonomous_Regions_of_Italy.svg/407px-Autonomous_Regions_of_Italy.svg.png

If you're from a non-special part of Italy, that's not my fault.

[Ira di Dio]

What language do they speak natively in Firenze? :picard1::picard2:
La Toscana, come immaginavo avresti fatto... Ignora le altre 19 regioni, che è meglio per te ;)


If you're from a non-special part of Italy, that's not my fault.
Oh, all'improvviso anche alfieb - il "Turiddu Giulianu" del ventunesimo secolo - è diventato legato a dettagli insignificanti come confini politici e finti particolarismi concessi da Roma... :rolleyes:

[Prince Carlo]

@Ira / Capelli - you're ignorant, prejudiced, and acting like fools.

Malta has 1/10th of the population of Sicily. They are the closest relatives we have. They are their own country. If they can survive independently, so can we.

Malta lives of tourism.


Il settore turistico è un elemento fondamentale dell'economia maltese, andando ad occupare il 74,9% del PIL ed il 34% della forza lavoro.

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economia_di_Malta

I doubt you can do the same.

[alfieb]

Malta lives of tourism.



http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economia_di_Malta

I doubt you can do the same.

We have Mt. Etna (largest active volcano in europe), Syracuse (legendary greek history), Valley of the Temples (great greek ruins), Taormina/San Vito Lo Capo (resorts on both coasts), Marsala (famous wineries), Corleone (mafia capital of the world), Palermo (has everything), Messina (only like, 3 km from Italy), and Catania (economic heart of the island). We have golf, we have food, and we have unlimited potential. The diaspora, Greeks, all kinds of people will be easily to attract.

As of now, I think we get more German and British tourists than just about anything else. That would change with the right marketing.

Don't want to go to the Alps? No bother, we have three skiing resorts (that I know of, maybe more), two near Catania and one near Palermo.

Our GDP is 10x the size of Malta's, which matches our population difference.

[Prince Carlo]

1. The Sicilian GDP per capita is almost half of that of Malta.

2. It's easy to sustain a small pop with tourism. Sicily can't do that. Without the money of the North, you would become the new Greece in 3-4 years.

[alfieb]

What's the difference? With 40% young adult unemployment, we may as well be Greeks.

[Prince Carlo]

And do you seriously think that Sicilians are going to accept that???

[alfieb]

No.

But 40% unemployment is temporary, and nobody is suggesting secession tomorrow. More autonomy first. Why does Sicily not have its own internet TLD? Why is Sicilian not taught in our schools? Why do we have Albanian but not Sicilian on our road signs? These are matters that should be taken care of in the short term. Independence is a long-term matter.

If these things are solved and we still have high unemployment after the rest of Italy has had its situation improved, then clearly autonomy is not enough, and Rome has abdicated its responsibility - from a Sicilian perspective - obviously the Italian view will be that lazy Sicilians don't want to work and want government handouts.

[askra]

Sicilians are rather selfish and want to live on the money of Italians without working. They blackmail the state with the threat of secession to get more money. But of couse they know that without Italy, they would become a new Lebanon in a couple of decades because they don't have a serious economy. The same is true for Sardinia to a much lesser extent.

The same is more true for campania, that presents a similar economic situation of sicily, for example the presence of criminal organizations, that are largely infiltrated in the economic structure of the region.
Campania in terms of GDP per capita and Income per capita is even put in a worse position than Sicily.
Sardinia today also due to the global crisis hasn't an idyllic economy, but compared with Southern Italian regions is better (highest gdp per capita of Mezzogiorno after Abruzzo and Molise, highest income per capita of Mezzogiorno) and above all hasn't problem with the organized crime's extorsion or widespread political corruption. Sardinian gdp per capita can be compared with that one of New Zealand, that isn't the richest country in the world, but neither a third world nation, as Lebanon.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Gross_domestic_product_%28GDP%29_per_inhabitant%2C _in_purchasing_power_standard_%28PPS%29%2C_by_NUTS _2_regions%2C_2009_%28%25_of_the_EU-27_average%2C_EU-27%3D100%29.png

In addition Sardinia unlike other talian Autonomous regions does not hold a single euro of taxes, and the italian goverment has removed the island from the EU convergence regions, which receive every year billions of euros from the European Union (signed in red in the map):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/European_union_erdf_map_de.png

[Comte Arnau]

I think it's unfair people try to force Sicilians into a generic "Italian" label but have no issue making distinctions for a plethora of other non-nations like Galicia, Catalunya, the parts of the UK, Brittany, Alsace-Lorraine, and Bavaria.

Non-nation... to you.

Catalonia has been and is a nation by history, law and customs, and as such is stated in our Statute. In no other stateless territory in Europe will you find more people feeling they live in a stateless nation. Not even in Scotland. Compared to this truth, what you think about us is irrelevant. Just like the fact that there is no subforum for us, or for the Czechs, won't make any of us less of a nation.

[alfieb]

Just like the fact that there is no subforum for us, or for the Czechs, won't make any of us less of a nation.
You've said that you don't desire a subforum though.

[Prince Carlo]

@Askra Sardinia has the national highest number of economically bankrupt municipalities in Italy.

http://www.lindipendenza.com/comuni-spreconi-classifica/

Percentage

Campania 3.45%
Sardinia 40.31%

http://www.lindipendenza.com/comuni-spreconi-classifica/

The lower GDP per capita is because of black economy. Our real economy is 50% higher than that.


Scomponendo i dati regione per regione, la Puglia accusa il piu' elevato spread tra ricchezza dichiarata e benessere reale, con 54 punti base, seguita da Sicilia, Campania e Calabria (spread rispettivamente di 53, 51 e 50 punti)

http://www.lastampa.it/2012/09/14/economia/finanza/finanza-personale/gli-italiani-e-la-ricchezza-nascosta-9pt1pCqAA8UR5PWUktfhdL/pagina.html

[Ira di Dio]

Il thread non ha più nulla da dire. Il popolo ha parlato. Evviva la democrazia.


In addition Sardinia unlike other talian Autonomous regions does not hold a single euro of taxes, and the italian goverment has removed the island from the EU convergence regions, which receive every year billions of euros from the European Union (signed in red in the map):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/European_union_erdf_map_de.png
Grazie per la mappa askra.

E' scandaloso che in un momento del genere l'Italia accetti di essere contribuente netto (versando nelle casse comuni piu' di quanto riceve: Roma continuera' a pagare annualmente 3,8 miliardi di euro in piu' rispetto a quanto riceve fino al 2020) per foraggiare stati falliti. Vista la situazione avrei fatto in modo che la Sardegna e magari anche altre regioni continuassero ad usufruire dei fondi.

[alfieb]

The poll is more or less a joke. It was created by an Italian nationalist, and it was Italian nationalists who voted against it.

Was there a poll for creating a forum for Cornwall? Their language went extinct in the 20th century and is only being revived by a few thousand people now. They're not even an autonomous region in the UK, yet they have a forum.

Il precedente costituito è chiaro.

[Peyrol]

Giusto un appunto Alfieb: l'italiano non è la ''lingua dei colonizzatori'', per il puro e semplice fatto che qui all'epoca non si parlava affatto in italiano (ovvero una forma modificata del toscano medioevale), ma in piemontese o al massimo in ligure, occitano o patòis valdostano, senza contare il fatto che una buona metà dei Mille erano non-piemontesi in prevalenza lombardi, romani o napoletani :laugh:

Quindi se vuoi prendertela con la ''lingua dei colonizzatori'', al massimo scrivi una lettera di protesta ad Emanuele Filiberto, alla Littizzetto o a Carla Bruni.

[Ira di Dio]

The poll is more or less a joke. It was created by an Italian nationalist, and it was Italian nationalists who voted against it.
Chi è un "nazionalista italiano" alzi la mano...

:bored:

Nessuno?...

[Peyrol]

Che poi un separatismo accanito del genere mai visto nella vita rele tra i siciliani veri...ma nemmeno il Bandito Giuliano tra un po'...

[Ira di Dio]

ma nemmeno il Bandito Giuliano tra un po'...
Non dirglielo che se no poi si pompa di brutto e non lo fermi più ;)

9-3 tutti a casa. Thread chiuso.

[Peyrol]

Non dirglielo che se no poi si pompa di brutto e non lo fermi più ;)

9-3 tutti a casa. Thread chiuso.

Si, direi che la decisione mi pare chiara e la chiusura sia l'unica cosa da fare.