Sicilian subforum

[Loki]

By popular demand, here is a Sicilian section under the general Italian one.

Enjoy :)

[alfieb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3SQFT_E_sg

[Prince Carlo]

Popular demand? LMAO.

[Comte Arnau]

Congrats, Alfieb.

[Sikeliot]

This is good :)

[Sicilianu101]

Thanks Loki!!! You are the best! Thank you for recognizing us and our people & I think this will encourage future Sicilian involvement in Apricity!! Finally a place to express opinions without being bashed as the periphery. Sicily is not a periphery. It's in the center of the Mediterranean world.

[Sikeliot]

Periphery of Europe yes, but not the periphery of the Med. Then again Europeans owe southeastern Europe for bringing civilization there. :)

[alb0zfinest]

Congrats
Alfieb you got, what i suggested :P

[Clawgauth]

why none is speaking sicilian in the sicilian subforum?

[Pallantides]

Personally I'd like to see a Venetian section.

[alfieb]

why none is speaking sicilian
Malta1066, Sicilianu101 and I speak Sicilian. But this thread was created in English, so it'd be quite rude, no?

I believe Sunphq only speaks Italian and English, and Sikeliot only English.

[Corvus]

Please post sth. in Sicilian and the Italian translation. I would be curious about the differences :)

[Ira di Dio]

Clearly a move made to irritate the other Italians. I don't know why my countrymen even bother to post in this forum. Are you maybe waiting on a Piemontese or a Venetian sub-forum guys?...

Who run this place don't like us, I don't see why we should like them. Addio.

Uno in meno, complimenti ai soliti ;)

[alfieb]

AME: " Excuse me, where can I go to find a butcher who sells horsemeat? "
SCN: « Scusàssi, p'attruvari nu chiancheri ca cc'havi carni di cavaddu unn'haju a jiri? »
ITA: « Scusi, dove devo andare per trovare un macellaio che abbia carne di cavallo? »

[Corvus]

AME: " Excuse me, where can I go to find a butcher who sells horsemeat? "
SCN: « Scusàssi, p'attruvari nu chiancheri ca cc'havi carni di cavaddu unn'haju a jiri? »
ITA: « Scusi, dove devo andare per trovare un macellaio che abbia carne di cavallo? »

Wow, seems like foreign language on the first sight. Now I know why I never understand them :D

[alfieb]

It is different. But, to be fair to the other side who don't see it that way, there are plenty of sentences that can be made where the two sound very similar, but only showing that wouldn't have demonstrated the Sicilian language very well.

Like, for instance...

AME: " Are there any restaurants here? "
SCN: « Cci sugnu risturanti ccà? »
ITA: « Ci sono ristoranti qui? »

[Sunphq]

How very anti-Hellenic :p


Malta1066, Sicilianu101 and I speak Sicilian. But this thread was created in English, so it'd be quite rude, no?

Exactly, only you guys have a firm grasp of the Sicilian language, so what's the point of the forum? Other than being a dumping ground and a platform for your ideology and political beliefs. Or for Sikeliot to make a ton of threads pertaining to his unrelenting, never-ending agenda. Most of the stuff he posts is simply to annoy an Italian-American moderator on another forum.

Any sincere interest in Sicily? I doubt it.


AME: " Excuse me, where can I go to find a butcher who sells horsemeat? "

American? Seriously?


Periphery of Europe yes, but not the periphery of the Med.

Never a second, right?


Some thread starter ideas for the section:

Are Sicilians good at organized crime and business because of their Semitic Canaanite ancestry?

Should Sicilians rise up and rebel against their evil Italian colonists?

Are Sicilians merely an extant population of Greece?

Wouldn't it be great if Sicily remained Hellenic and held onto their glory. (The irony?)

Should Sicilians, Greeks, Maltese, Armenians and the Lebanese form an arbitrary and meaningless coalition of some sorts?

Giuseppe Garibaldi was a war criminal, and along with his oppressive band of mercenaries they ravaged the Island and its people.


:D

[alfieb]

Giuseppe Garibaldi was a war criminal, and along with his oppressive band of mercenaries they ravaged the Island and its people.


You should start that one right now, I'd love to take a few shots at that Frenchman.

Did you know he used to live in New York? They turned his old home into a museum. Big tourist attraction for Italians - even though he was from Nizza, which never became part of this new fake Italian identity. :p

[Loki]

Clearly a move made to irritate the other Italians. I don't know why my countrymen even bother to post in this forum. Are you maybe waiting on a Piemontese or a Venetian sub-forum guys?...

Who run this place don't like us, I don't see why we should like them. Addio.

Uno in meno, complimenti ai soliti ;)

What's your problem? Stop being so hateful. If there are other regions with enough representation, and they wanted a section, we could consider that as well. If you don't like the Sicilian section you don't have to post in it.

[Clawgauth]

You should start that one right now, I'd love to take a few shots at that Frenchman.

Did you know he used to live in New York? They turned his old home into a museum. Big tourist attraction for Italians - even though he was from Nizza, which never became part of this new fake Italian identity. :p

I'm not a fan of Garibaldi, when you siculo-american say ''Sono siciliano,non italiano'' you are right (seriously,I'm not trolling). I'm not a fan of Garibaldi because he conquered Sicily. Actually, the italian goverment give tons of euro every year to sicily and the other regioni a statuto speciale. But, at least, trentino,sardegna,friuli and Val D'Aosta, know how to administrate our money.
In sicily the money for the statuto speciale, vanish every year, and this because of the sicilian politicians. The sicilians have to start a process of improvment, I have a lot of sicilian friends, and they know that better than me.

[alfieb]

I'm not a fan of Garibaldi, when you siculo-american say ''Sono siciliano,non italiano'' you are right (seriously,I'm not trolling). I'm not a fan of Garibaldi because he conquered Sicily. Actually, the italian goverment give tons of euro every year to sicily and the other regioni a statuto speciale. But, at least, trentino,sardegna,friuli and Val D'Aosta, know how to administrate our money.
In sicily the money for the statuto speciale, vanish every year.

I won't debate that the Sicilian government in Paliemmu and Italian government in Roma are both corrupt as hell, or that it's unfair to other regions that we pay no taxes to Rome. These are both certainly true. Sicily takes money from the EU, and from Italy, and gives little in return.

This is the inevitable cost of colonialism.

[Incal]

why none is speaking sicilian in the sicilian subforum?

I know right? Anyway, this section should be renamed 'Jersey shore subforum'.

[alfieb]

I don't know of any guidos on here?

But I'm impressed that an Inca like yourself from a third world country where cat eating is practiced (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/10/cat-eating-feast-peru-festival_n_1954903.html) would know of that show, since even though it has been cancelled, it's not 10 years old.

[Sicilianu101]

You should start that one right now, I'd love to take a few shots at that Frenchman.

Did you know he used to live in New York? They turned his old home into a museum. Big tourist attraction for Italians - even though he was from Nizza, which never became part of this new fake Italian identity. :p

Agreed lol

[Sicilianu101]

What's your problem? Stop being so hateful. If there are other regions with enough representation, and they wanted a section, we could consider that as well. If you don't like the Sicilian section you don't have to post in it.

This is one of the reasons why Sicily needed its own section. Because some North Italians are racist and hateful towards us. This subforum gives us the opportunity to have a sanctuary where our ideas are the basis of discussion even if they come & troll here anyway.

[Slycooper]

^ They only act like that because how much you guys are trying to break off from Italy. Your Italian. Just like them...

[Sikeliot]

^ They only act like that because how much you guys are trying to break off from Italy. Your Italian. Just like them...

If some of them are that butthurt that Sicilian and Sicilian-American posters here identify with their region and not a country that came into existence less than 200 years ago, they have to accept it.

[alfieb]

^ They only act like that because how much you guys are trying to break off from Italy. Your Italian. Just like them...
In what way?

Language? History? Biology? Culture? Geography? Cuisine? Flora? Fauna?

We have animals in Sicily that they don't have.
We have trees in Sicily that they don't have.
We have our own food, our own beverages.
We're not geographically any more part of Italy than Malta or Corsica is.
We've been inhabited for 10,000 years by human beings, and very little of that time were we together with Italians.
Genetically, the average Sicilian is closer to Greeks and Maltese than to the average Italian.
And our language is distinctly different from Italian, not to mention older than Italian.

If religion and politics are all that matters, then sure, we're all the same (autonomy aside). But then again, tell that to Catalans and Basques, and then tell that to Kurds.

[Sikeliot]

Exactly, only you guys have a firm grasp of the Sicilian language, so what's the point of the forum? Other than being a dumping ground and a platform for your ideology and political beliefs. Or for Sikeliot to make a ton of threads pertaining to his unrelenting, never-ending agenda. Most of the stuff he posts is simply to annoy an Italian-American moderator on another forum.

That's actually not true and the one with the unrelenting agenda is him. Come on. The proto-Indo Europeans originated in Sicily? Funny since we have very little Indo-European ancestry to speak of.

[Clawgauth]

If some of them are that butthurt that Sicilian and Sicilian-American posters here identify with their region and not a country that came into existence less than 200 years ago, they have to accept it.

*only sicilian american here

[Slycooper]

But what is an Italian then? It's a nationality know? I get your sicillian. But your still Italian. I like Italian people. Have a lot of Italian friends. So this is why I am commenting in here.

[alfieb]

But what is an Italian then? It's a nationality know? I get your sicillian. But your still Italian. I like Italian people. Have a lot of Italian friends. So this is why I am commenting in here.

I like Italians, I like Italy. I'm 1/4 Northern Italian. I don't hate them at all.

If you want to know what Italy is, ask the Romans, since they were the first to unify it and name it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Roman_Italy.gif/300px-Roman_Italy.gif

[Slycooper]

But it's not like Sicily just became part of Italy recently or something. They have been part of Italy since day 1 of the Italian unification. Thats all Italy is a unification. Much like spain. So while a sicillian is different from a lombard. Both are equally Italian. At least imo.

[Sikeliot]

But it's not like Sicily just became part of Italy recently or something. They have been part of Italy since day 1 of the Italian unification. Thats all Italy is a unification. Much like spain. So while a sicillian is different from a lombard. Both are equally Italian. At least imo.

But if both a Lombard and a Sicilian, being very different, are both equally "Italian" then calling someone "Italian" as an ethnic unifier is almost meaningless in my opinion.

I guess you could look at it that Italy is a state and not a nation, in the sense that Italians do not all view themselves as "one people", at least not on this site.

[alfieb]

But it's not like Sicily just became part of Italy recently or something. They have been part of Italy since day 1 of the Italian unification. Thats all Italy is a unification. Much like spain. So while a sicillian is different from a lombard. Both are equally Italian. At least imo.
And Spain is artificial, too. Tell a Basque that he's a Spaniard in more than name. They're very, very different, but politics threw them together.

[Slycooper]

I don't view Italians as an ethnicity nor do I view the spanish like that. But Italian and Spanish is a nationality. So the Natives within the country will be called Italian or Spanish. A Basque is a spaniard. One of many types of Spanish. Same goes for Sicily.

[alfieb]

Nobody disputes that in 1861, an Italian nation was created.

But we already had a nation, forged in blood more than a half a millennium before. We don't need theirs.

[Slycooper]

But Sicily itself is a diverse island. Someone from the North may be different from someone from the south. There were different settlements in areas of the island. So even a "sicilian" can mean a lot of things.

[Sunphq]

You should start that one right now, I'd love to take a few shots at that Frenchman.

Did you know he used to live in New York? They turned his old home into a museum. Big tourist attraction for Italians - even though he was from Nizza, which never became part of this new fake Italian identity. :p


At the beginning of April 1860, uprisings in Messina and Palermo in the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies provided Garibaldi with an opportunity.


Garibaldi's progress was met with more celebration than resistance


Garibaldi was however very displeased as his home city of Nice (Nizza in Italian) was surrendered to the French, in return for crucial military assistance.


He had the support of many inhabitants, who rose up against the garrison, but before they could take the city, reinforcements arrived and bombarded the city nearly to ruins.

What a tyrant he was, must be those Italian nationalists on Wikipedia with their revisionism.

But my point is: there is no sincere interest in Sicily at all. None of the Northern Italians posters here are "racist" towards Sicilians. Peyrol is a bit of a contrarian sometimes, but he is just stating his opinions. ;)


And Spain is artificial, too. Tell a Basque that he's a Spaniard in more than name. They're very, very different, but politics threw them together.

Didn't I make that point already? If Italian is an artificial identity, so is French, Spanish, Portuguese, German and so on...


The proto-Indo Europeans originated in Sicily? Funny since we have very little Indo-European ancestry to speak of.

I'm not defending him or his opinions. You mean Proto-Indo-Europeans in Anatolia? And the last remark shows that it never leaves your mind.

Complain about Dienekes and RR as well.


I like Italians, I like Italy. I'm 1/4 Northern Italian. I don't hate them at all.

It's not a question of hate, it's that your opinions are fringe at best. But you do purposely troll other Italian members. I agree with some of your sensible opinions, but the rest, no. :p


If some of them are that butthurt that Sicilian and Sicilian-American posters here identify with their region and not a country that came into existence less than 200 years ago, they have to accept it.

Make a sub-section for every Italian region then.

[Sikeliot]

But Sicily itself is a diverse island. Someone from the North may be different from someone from the south. There were different settlements in areas of the island. So even a "sicilian" can mean a lot of things.

This isn't even true. For the most part Sicilians all cluster together except for people in isolated towns. The reason is because historical groups (Moors, Normans, Spanish) didn't leave a large genetic imprint.

[Sikeliot]

I'm not defending him or his opinions. You mean proto-Indo Europeans in Anatolia? And the last remark shows that it never leaves your mind.

Complain about Dienekes and RR as well.

But he also goes on about Sicilians being the originators of Roman civilization, how they are genetically "Western Europeans", etc. All nonsense. If Sicily is the originator of Roman civilization it's because the Romans stole all of their civilization from the Greeks living in Sicily, not that Sicilians are some proto-Latin people who moved north and started Rome.

[alfieb]

We're far more about East/West than North/South.

Our ethnogenesis was in 1282. After that, all Sicilians (and to a lesser extent Maltese) became brothers.

Yes, we've a very clannish nation. Very inbred. Your family is first, your neighbors second, then the rest of the town, then the rest of the Province, then the neighboring provinces, and then the rest of Sicily.

Other than me, all of the Sicilians on this forum originate from Eastern Sicily, but we are all family. The same cannot be said for Italians.

[Slycooper]

There was a thread made earlier about light sicillians. Thats what I am saying though. The sicilians I have seen posted here can range from a greek looking one. To a lebanese one. Or a light eyed one.

[Sikeliot]

Our ethnogenesis was in 1282. After that, all Sicilians (and to a lesser extent Maltese) became brothers.

Maltese are western Sicilians, basically.

[Sikeliot]

There was a thread made earlier about light sicillians. Thats what I am saying though. The sicilians I have seen posted here can range from a greek looking one. To a lebanese one. Or a light eyed one.

And chances are they all cluster together genetically, despite their contrasting appearances. It's not like the dark ones are pure blooded Phoenicians and the light ones pure blooded Normans.

[Loki]

Will you guys stop harassing the Sicilians? Leave them in peace. And it doesn't matter whether they're Sicilian-Americans or not.

[Sebastian1406]

Living in America Italians get a bad rap because of the Mafia, which is just a stereo type. I do notice some differences in the USA between Sicilians and Main land Italians. I remember my grandparents who's parents are from Central Italy saying they could not understand the Italian spoken by the Sicilians and Calabrese people in the neighborhood. Also Sicilians tend to be way more religious.

[alfieb]

And chances are they all cluster together genetically, despite their contrasting appearances. It's not like the dark ones are pure blooded Phoenicians and the light ones pure blooded Normans.
Right. I'm an outlier, not the typical Sicilian, but even I fall in with the rest to some extent.


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.1% Swedish (Dodecad) + 44.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.04

[Comte Arnau]

A Basque is a spaniard. One of many types of Spanish.

French Basques are also Spaniards?

[Sikeliot]

Right. I'm an outlier, not the typical Sicilian, but even I fall in with the rest to some extent.

What's weird to me is that you don't look typically Sicilian but not in the direction your genetics suggest.. like I'd expect, if you looked non-Sicilian that it'd be in a Northern European direction but that's not the case.

[Slycooper]

French Basques are also Spaniards?

No. But as Basque county is a region of spain. They are Spanish. Nationality wise.

[Sikeliot]

I don't agree with nationality as the sole basis for identity.. are Pontic Greeks "Turkish"? Are Hungarian Jews "Hungarian"?

[Comte Arnau]

No. But as Basque county is a region of spain. They are Spanish. Nationality wise.

Sure. But ethnicity and identity are not based on such an artificial changing thing as citizenship for most people.

[alfieb]

The closest (in terms of classification) I've gotten to anything "Northern European" was a few people on ABF saying I looked like I had Alpinid influence. Which isn't that far off. I'm probably pred Med mixed with either that or Berid.

Alpo-Dinaro med would be my best guess, but I'm terrible at judging myself.

[Sikeliot]

The closest (in terms of classification) I've gotten to anything "Northern European" was a few people on ABF saying I looked like I had Alpinid influence. Which isn't that far off. I'm probably pred Med mixed with either that or Berid.

Alpo-Dinaro med would be my best guess, but I'm terrible at judging myself.

I don't know that you have a lot of Dinarid influence. I'd have to see a picture from the side.

[wvwvw]

I don't agree with nationality as the sole basis for identity.. are Pontic Greeks "Turkish"? Are Hungarian Jews "Hungarian"?

There is no Pontic minority or any kind of Greek minority left in Turkey:


After years of persecution (e.g. the Varlık Vergisi and the Istanbul Pogrom), emigration of ethnic Greeks from the Istanbul region greatly accelerated, reducing the 119.822-strong Greek minority before the attack to about 7,000 by 1978. The 2008 figures released by the Turkish Foreign Ministry places the current number of Turkish citizens of Greek descent at the 3,000–4,000 mark. However according to the Human Rights Watch the Greek population in Turkey is estimated at 2,500 in 2006. The Greek population in Turkey is collapsing as the community is now far too small to sustain itself demographically, due to emigration, much higher death rates than birth rates and continuing discrimination

Source: Wiki

Pontic Genocide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide)

[alfieb]

There is no Pontic minority or any kind of Greek minority left in Turkey:

I don't think he means Hungarian Jews in Hungary or Greeks in Turkey, but rather diasporans?