Athens burning

[Jamt]

It is horrible, the stuff happening in Athens and the rest of Greece now.

Yesterday there were a “professional Swede/Greek" named Alexandra Pascalidou on Swedish TV aggressively calming that the anarchists were innocents and not to blame. This woman always makes me feel sick. If a democratic government can be made to step down be course of this, what is the point of democracy?

The covering of this in Sweden is quite shallow. Anybody know of better articles online in English or can explain more?

[Vulpix]

Another take:


Asylum seekers riot in Athens (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/12/06/europe/EU-Greece-Migrant-Riot.php)

International Herald Tribune
The Associated Press
Published: December 6, 2008 http://img.iht.com/images/dot_h.gif

Hundreds of migrants waiting to submit asylum applications rioted in central Athens, setting fire to rubbish bins and attacking passing cars.

Protesters said the riot began when one man fell into a nearby canal after authorities told the crowd that no more applications could be submitted. Only a small number of applications can be submitted each week.

It was not immediately clear how the man fell into the canal. Police said he was injured and was taken by ambulance to a hospital. They said they were investigating the incident.

Outraged asylum-seekers began setting fire to rubbish bins and throwing them into the street, and ripped branches off trees to set them alight. A smaller group threw rocks at passing cars, stopping some vehicles and banging on them with their hands. There were no reports of any passers-by being injured.

The riot lasted for about an hour, and riot police who were on standby nearby did not intervene. A fire truck extinguished the blazes.

In October, a human rights group said a Pakistani man was fatally injured when he fell into the same canal.

The group, Stop the War Coalition, said that the man had been trying to escape police after immigrants queuing to submit applications clashed with authorities. Police rejected claims they had any involvement in the man's death and said they had tried to repulse an attempt by a large group of migrants to jump the queue.

Rights groups have often criticised Greece's treatment of illegal immigrants and the living conditions in detention centres.

Greece approved only 140 of the 20,692 asylum applications made in 2007, according to the UN refugee agency. Tens of thousands of illegal migrants enter Greece each year. Many attempt dangerous sea crossings from nearby Turkey or brave minefields to make their way in.

Greece has frequently asked for more help from the European Union to deal with the problem.

[Jamt]

It is a tradegy that a teenager has been killed by police in Athens.
God bless his family.
Internet says the kid was the son of a banker.
Who the hell are the anarchists?

[Revenant]

Was the kid shot by the Police throwing stones at them?. I read that somewhere.

The Greek government needs to deport all the immigrants asap. They also need to put some fear into the lefists and anarchists or whoever is spearheading these riots. The shopkeepers who look like they are bearing the brunt of this need to be protected.

Maybe the situation is more complicated than what I saw on the news here.

[Absinthe]

Alexandra Paschalidou is back in Sweden? :eek:

I am telling you, sir, this despicable woman came to Greece a couple of years ago, boasting her prestigeous career and posing with the pompousness of a thousand cardinals.

She came here with big plans, and she was 'oh, so excited' that she's 'back home' and away from those 'nasty racist Swedes' (that coincidentally, made her what she is)...

She tried to get her hands into various media positions but in the end all she was given was a silly morning show, where she would address the ordinary housewife, presenting cooking recipes and house cleaning tips.

But not even that could save her: the Greeks rejected her and her show was making less numbers than the 11 o' clock Smurf episode.. :D

Eventually, she quit the greek TV altogether because nobody would hire her. Greeks thought she was snobbish, obnoxious, and, basically, an airhead.
They were not even moved by the 'victim of racism' story.

I didn't know she was back in Sweden... :D No offence, sincerely, but it's only Sweden that bimbos like her could make a career based on racism allegations.
She must be the most untalented person on television worldwide, and if she hasn't used the 'racism' card, I am telling you, brother, she would be mopping stairs or washing the dishes in a greek taverna in Göteborg...

Kick her out for heaven's sake, she's got to be the most ungrateful immigrant ever to set foot in Sverige... :mad:

[Absinthe]

Since I've already written about this in a Yahoo group, I'll just copy/paste what I wrote, if you don't mind :embarrassed



You probably heard about the riots here. Athens is literally ON FIRE and that is no understatement!

It started of when some bastard in a police uniform shot a 15 year old in cold blood.
By satanic coincidence this kid was my brother's classmate in an expensive private school....... He was no anarchist, just a 15 year old kid in a Sex Pistols t-shirt caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Upper class, good student, educated background and all that.

At first I thought what was happening was like a dream!! I saw regular citizens standing up to the rotten system, housewives throwing flower pots (lol :D) off the balconies to the cops and calling them murderers...

I thought we were at the brink of a genuine revolution... I've been breathing tear gas and expired army chemicals for 3 days but I was thinking 'what the hell' this *had* to happen sooner or later..

But now...it's turning into a nightmare... So called 'anarchists' (agent provocateurs I believe) are burning EVERYTHING indiscriminately.

From univesities and roads to the National Library at the centre of Athens...
I fear greatly of what comes tomorrow for us. I feel as if this is an excuse for MORE surveillance, more police brutality.

They say tomorrow Greece shall be declared in a State of Emergency and Martial Law shall be implemented.

To me, this will only make matters worse as it once Greeks start, there is no way to stop them *you know*. I fear this shall turn into civil war and, what's worse, the outcome will not be good. I'll keep you posted.


I don't know what's happening anymore. What started as a sincere
outrage, not just for the death of an innocent but for all the
tension that's been piling up for years, is turning into well-planned
excuse for the system to tighten security measures and police
surveillance.
All that because 'private property' has been harmed, but also the
very wrong targets such as the National Library and various
University buildings...

What kind of people are those that burn their own SHELTERS, their own
havens of refuge in this insane world?

I certainly don't approve the burning of libraries and universities.
They're the only weapons we have left against this corrupted
establishment.

Worse yet, this sort of action is turning the layperson against the
protests, and the original cry of despair against police brutality
and state corruption in Greece is turning into "Where is the Police
to save us?", "We need stricter state measures against terrorism".

This shows once more that everything in modern Greece is rotten, from
top to bottom and left to right.
Greeks care only about themselves.

Greek cops care only about their 'reputation', thereby shooting
teenagers to prove their worthiness.

Greek anarchists, and anti-statists in general, care only about their
own exhibition of power, not thinking about the opposite effect their
actions will have or how their actions are used by agent provocateurs.

Greek people care only about their own property and welfare.

The death of a 15-year old is despicable and condemned by everyone,
as long as we're all well & still able to enjoy our Christmas
shopping.
The minute the first window is shattered, it's 'the damn anarchists'
and 'the good policemen' all over again.

I don't know what to say anymore, I've lost faith in this country
years ago but now I am afraid for the worst.

Plus, as if our own deep-rooted inferiority complexes and slave
mentalities were not enough, we have about a million of third-
worlders in Athens that benefit from the situation and make matters
worse for everyone.

Today it is slightly calmer than yesterday but as soon as the night
falls the riots will start again and I believe this time it shall be
worse.

All in all, this is not a political thing anymore. The social volcano
has been boiling for decades --it would erupt sooner or later. At
least I hope something good will come of this in the end, though I
doubt it.

You might also want to take a look at those pictures (http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/articleslideshow?articleId=USTRE4B601720081209&channelName=worldNews#a=1). :(

[Absinthe]

I also have to add that the thousands of illegal aliens living in the centre of Athens are taking great advange of the situation by looting shops whose windows have been shattered and running away with the merchandise and selling it on the black market.

They seem to be taking part in the riots as well. From yesterday's arrest of about 100 people, 56 of them were found to be immigrants, mostly Albanians and Iraquis (Iraquis? I didn't even know we had those), but also Romanians and Georgians.

I can't say exactly what's happening but so far I speculate this:

What started out as a sincere, and long overdue protest against the most internally corrupted European state ever, is being taken advantage by scum, both local and imported. We have created a monster...

[Arrow Cross]

Oh dear, it's a lot worse than Budapest 2006, the anarchists are the last kind of scum you'd want to rise up against a corrupt state.

Stay brave, and hold your head high in the midst of chaos.

[Alison]

Blimey! This is pretty serious stuff. Just goes to show how out of touch I am with world news. This is the first I've heard about this.

[Vulpix]

This is the new media dear :D! ;):cool:


Blimey! This is pretty serious stuff. Just goes to show how out of touch I am with world news. This is the first I've heard about this.

[Alison]

:) I haven't logged in here in ages! Been busy. I thought that with school holidays, I'd be less stressed. No chance!

I've had to take both boys for xrays this week. The oldest had a suspected broken finger playing cricket and the youngest a suspected fractured foot jumping off stairs.

Thankfully, no broken bones.

[SwordoftheVistula]

The police look pretty ineffective from what few clips I've seen on TV.

I can't believe police aren't allowed to enter Universities there, they've got no hope of stopping the riots if the rioters have a police-free zone in which to hide.

An English columnist believes this may be the beginning of the end for the EU:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/ambrose_evans-pritchard/blog/2008/12/10/greek_fighting_the_eurozones_weakest_link_starts_t o_crack

The last time I visited Greece, I was caught in the middle of a tear-gas charge by police in Thessaloniki - a remarkably unpleasant experience, if you have not tried it. My eyes were in screaming pain for an hour.

Protesters smashed up the shops on the main drag, broke the windows of my hotel, and torched a few cars.

So the latest four-day episode in Athens and other Greek cities comes as no great surprise. The Greeks are a feisty people. This is meant as a compliment - broadly speaking - just in case any Greek readers should take it the wrong way. Hitler was so impressed by Greek bravery that he accorded Greek soldiers full military honours, almost the sole example among captive nations in the East - or at least professed to do so at first.

That said, these riots are roughly what eurosceptics expected to see, at some point, at the periphery of the euro-zone as the slow-burn effects (excuse the pun) of Europe's monetary union begin to corrode the democratic legitimacy of governments.

Note two stories in Kathimerini (English Edition)

"Athens riots spin totally out of control"

And an editorial: "Greece has gone up in flames and the concept of democracy and law and order has been eliminated"

Without wanting to rehearse all the pros and cons of euro membership yet again, or debate whether EMU is a "optimal currency area", there is obviously a problem for countries like Greece that were let into EMU for political reasons before their economies had been reformed enough to cope with the rigours of euro life - over the long run.

In the case of Greece, of course, Athens was found guilty by Eurostat of committing "statistical achemy" to get into the system - ie, they lied about their deficits.

Be that as it may. Greece's euro membership has now led to a warped economy. The current account deficit is 15pc of GDP, the eurozone's highest by far. Indeed, the deficit ($53bn) is the sixth biggest in the world in absolute terms -- quite a feat for a country of 11m people.

Year after year of high inflation has eroded the competitive base of the economy. This is an insidious and slow effect, and very hard to reverse. Tourists are slipping away to Turkey, or Croatia. It will take a long time to lure them back.

The underlying rot was disguised by the global credit bubble, and by the Greek property boom. It is now being laid bare.

Greece has a public debt of 93 per cent of GDP, well above the Maastricht limit. This did not matter in 2007 when bond spreads over German Bunds were around 26 basis points, meaning that investors were willing to treat all eurozone debt as more or less equivalent.

It matters now. The credit default swaps on Greek sovereign debt were trading around 250 today (compared to 52 for Germany, 62 for the US, 120 for the UK, and 178 for Italy). It has moved into a class of its own.

This is potentially dangerous because Greece needs to tap the capital markets for 40bn euros next year to roll over debt and fund the budget deficit, as well as 15bn euros or so in bond issuance by banks under the state's new guarantee. This is a lot of money.

The Greek government will need budgetary discipline to convince markets that it has matters under control. But governments facing riots and imminent defenestration are not good bets for fiscal discipline. There is a general strike in any case on Thursday.

While the violence was triggered by the death of a 15-year old boy, the underlying motives of the protest obviously run deeper. The hard left can mobilize demos because the youth unemployment is endemic and because the goverment is being forced by economic constraints to adopt a hair-shirt policy at a very bad moment. At some stage a major political party - perhaps PASOK - will start to reflect whether it can carry out its spending and economic revival plans under the constraints of a chronically over-valued currency (for Greek needs). Then there will be a problem.

I am a little surpised that the riot phase of this long politico-economic drama known as EMU has kicked off so soon, and that it has done so first in Greece where the post-bubble hangover has barely begun.

The crisis is much further advanced in Spain, which is a year or two ahead of Greece in the crisis cycle.

My old job as Europe correspondent based in Brussels led me to spend a lot of time in cities that struck me as powder kegs - and indeed became powder kegs in the case of Rotterdam following the murder of Pim Fortyn, and Antwerp following the Muslim street riots (both of which I covered as a journalist). Lille, Strasbourg, Marseilles, Amsterdam, Brussels, all seemed inherently unstable, and I do not get the impression that the big cities of Spain and Italy are taking kindly to new immigrants.

The picture is going to get very ugly as Europe slides deeper into recession next year. The IMF expects Spain's unemployment to reach 15pc. Immigrants are already being paid to leave the country. There will be riots in Spain too (there have been street skirmishes in Barcelona).

Hedge funds, bond vigilantes, and FX traders will be watching closely. In the end, a currency union is no stronger than the political will of the constituent states.

No doubt events will be ugly in Britain as well. My comments are not intended to suggest that British behaviour is better. Far from it. But I am certain that the British people still feel that the authorities who set economic policy are ultimately answerable to Parliament and to the democratic system.

Will the Greeks, the Spanish, the French feel that way about the European Central Bank and the Stability Pact when the chips are really down?