PDA

View Full Version : the reasons for bullying, being bullied, being a bullie



Mortimer
02-27-2013, 06:35 AM
i read about the sad case of a 9 year old UK Boy who got bullied into suicide because he is White by Asians. It is horrible. And it reminded me of my own School life where i was bullied but it never went to those extremes, thanks god. also my Little Cousin in serbia got bullied and even beaten up by other School Kids. i wonder why some are bullies? and why People who are different get bullied? why different People cant get accepted like they are or at least left alone. why the Need to bullie someone? what is the psychology behind bullies? what makes them bullies? why they do such horrible stuff? is there any Explanation?

amerinese
02-27-2013, 06:44 AM
I don't know. I'm from an older generation. When I was 6 years old, I was bus'ed to an all-black ghetto in first grade as part of the forced integration scheme in the 1970's. My first 5 years of school, I attended 6 different schools. For me, anti-bullying was punching someone in the face or slamming the back of their head against the metal frame of a school bus window, so they knew not to fuck with me anymore. Nowadays everybody wants to call the cops or hire a lawyer. Then we have these emos killing themselves.

Mortimer
02-27-2013, 06:46 AM
I don't know. I'm from an older generation. When I was 6 years old, I was bus'ed to an all-black ghetto in first grade as part of the forced integration scheme in the 1970's. My first 5 years of school, I attended 6 different schools. For me, anti-bullying was punching someone in the face or slamming the back of their head against the metal frame of a school bus window, so they knew not to fuck with me anymore. Nowadays everybody wants to call the cops or hire a lawyer. Then we have these emos killing themselves.

i see but then you have been physically stronger then the others, which was your luck because if you havent been you would be the one ended up with slammed head against the wall

amerinese
02-27-2013, 06:48 AM
i see but then you have been physically stronger then the others, which was your luck because if you havent been you would be the one ended up with slammed head against the wall

Not always. I'm just mean and I use the element of surprise.

Mortimer
02-27-2013, 06:53 AM
Not always. I'm just mean and I use the element of surprise.

you do have a fighter Spirit but some others are more sensitive. usually more sensitive People are ended up bullied. but not always, sometimes if a Group wants to bully you you cannot do anything about it if they are more and stronger, when they are a Group and you are alone

amerinese
02-27-2013, 06:58 AM
you do have a fighter Spirit but some others are more sensitive. usually more sensitive People are ended up bullied. but not always, sometimes if a Group wants to bully you you cannot do anything about it if they are more and stronger, when they are a Group and you are alone

You're right. That's more of a problem, when they gang up on you like a pack of dogs. The only thing to do then is try to escape. Of course most groups like that have a leader. If you can catch him alone and make an example out of him, it may solve your problem, or it could make it worse.

There is always going to be the different, smaller, weaker, awkward kid being picked on or socially ostracized at a minimum. I think it's programmed into human nature. There should be punishments for bullying, but these propaganda campaigns they have going on in schools, I think they will be largely ineffective and thus a pointless waste of time and money.

legolasbozo
02-27-2013, 07:11 AM
i think peoples who have domestic problems has tendency to bullying. As far as i noticed, low class familly childs bullying to others. When i was in junior school, there were some kids aggravating to quite kids, i was alpha male so trying to block this acts. But now i think different. İ should let them to do it. Because this is some kind of life-training. İn early ages, you should face to toughness of life, because later life is harder than before. İf you can't challenge it, then you could introvert yourself, become shape of anti-social personality. That's my point.

kwestos
02-27-2013, 07:14 AM
Bullies are cowards deep inside. Bullying is a compensation mechanism. It is dealing with own fear of abandonment and lack of security. Bullies wory that they cannot gain acceptance, respect or popularity any other way than with force. They believe they cannot get it in a natural way. It shows how low self-respect they have. It is almost like makes you feel sorry for them, even though they do everythig to stop you feeling sorry.
Usually group bullying is steered by some units and the rest are just crowd behaviours.

alfieb
02-27-2013, 07:18 AM
Bullied people are weak, and are content with being weak, as so long as they are left alone.

Bullies are weak, but want to be strong, and can sense the weakness in the bullied people, and act accordingly. They get their strength from perception. They feel better about themselves when they are making others feel worse about themselves.

Bullies aren't alphas, but want everyone to think that they are. Their victims are omegas who won't stick up for themselves.

That is, unless the bully has no skill in finding a target, and if that's the case, he'll never find any success at bullying.

The whole "bullies are cowards" thing is liberal, politically correct propaganda. The truth of the matter is that bullies aren't cowards, they're just selfish assholes who are insecure. The real cowards are the people who allow themselves to be bullied, and the people who see others getting bullied and do nothing to stop it.

Wadaad
02-27-2013, 07:19 AM
I for one support bullying in children...if you are bullying someone, it will teach you that you can get your way by threatening to use violence...upto a certain point. So it's a good way to learn your threshold, or how far you can get away with using a sort of primal Macciavalian thought process. If you are bullied it is also good, because it will teach you aswell, on the inverse...how much you can take before you either decide to retaliate and how.

I saw incidents of my little nephew beat up other kids on the playground and also get beaten up, both times I did not intervene...

amerinese
02-27-2013, 07:26 AM
^^ Yeah, I think that "normal" kids usually establish a pecking order that way. I recall when I entered fourth grade, having a few fights, some I won, some I lost, but generally after that I didn't have too much trouble with that same group of kids who I attended school with for six years. Prior to that, I was changing schools every year, so it was a new deal each time. In third grade I was sent to a private parochial school with all sheltered white kids. After the experiences I had previously, I ended up being the meanest kid in my class. In fourth grade I started with a big head, after moving to another state, but I was in school with rural rednecks who were accustomed to fighting, so I had to learn my place in the pecking order. That's it.

Queen B
02-27-2013, 07:48 AM
luckily, such extremes of bullying don't really happen here, or at least, if they do, they are rare.

The reasons I guess is the insecurities of the bullies. A confident kid, would never have to show of as ''the better'' or the ''stronger'', in order to establish himself .

Mortimer
02-27-2013, 07:52 AM
I think you guys dont understand the seriousness of bullying. Because you were probably never bullied really. And it can be psychological too not only physical. What is with mobbing at work place do you support that too? Sometimes the bullies are meaner and physically stronger or are more. And the seriousness of bullying shows in suicide of victims. Everyne has a right to keep his mental and physical well being. You cant understand because your life was not destroyed

liamliam
02-27-2013, 07:55 AM
People usually become bullies when they lack a lot of empathy, such as people with anti-social personality disorder, psycopathy, sociopathy and narcissm. About 15% of people have many of these traits. These conditions can't be cured and the person stays that way their whole life. People who have any of these conditions, I have to say, are horrid people.

SkyBurn
02-27-2013, 07:55 AM
I for one support bullying in children...if you are bullying someone, it will teach you that you can get your way by threatening to use violence...upto a certain point.

So, you think that the humiliation and distress of children is beneficial? Even if it makes them hate school, and more importantly themselves? Or that watching kids develop a sadistic side teaches them good lessons?

Are you f***ed in the head? :p

liamliam
02-27-2013, 07:59 AM
I for one support bullying in children...if you are bullying someone, it will teach you that you can get your way by threatening to use violence...upto a certain point. So it's a good way to learn your threshold, or how far you can get away with using a sort of primal Macciavalian thought process. If you are bullied it is also good, because it will teach you aswell, on the inverse...how much you can take before you either decide to retaliate and how.

I saw incidents of my little nephew beat up other kids on the playground and also get beaten up, both times I did not intervene...


Ok Mr Sociopath :rolleyes:

alfieb
02-27-2013, 08:13 AM
I think you guys dont understand the seriousness of bullying. Because you were probably never bullied really. And it can be psychological too not only physical. What is with mobbing at work place do you support that too? Sometimes the bullies are meaner and physically stronger or are more. And the seriousness of bullying shows in suicide of victims. Everyne has a right to keep his mental and physical well being. You cant understand because your life was not destroyed

No-one is to blame for a suicide other than the person who kills themselves.

Han Cholo
02-27-2013, 08:18 AM
I for one support bullying in children...if you are bullying someone, it will teach you that you can get your way by threatening to use violence...upto a certain point. So it's a good way to learn your threshold, or how far you can get away with using a sort of primal Macciavalian thought process. If you are bullied it is also good, because it will teach you aswell, on the inverse...how much you can take before you either decide to retaliate and how.

I saw incidents of my little nephew beat up other kids on the playground and also get beaten up, both times I did not intervene...

Bullying more often than not implies more than one person. I don't see how being constantly attacked by a gang can be beneficial in growing up. Fair school fights can happen (and usually happen) over other stupid reasons, children disagreeing with each other, making an offensive joke, stealing something or just anger outbursts without a particular reason. In my experiences most fights I had in school never were related to me reacting against a bully. In secondary schools most fights were about girls and between jackasses who were too full of themselves and not related to bullying. In high school fights rarely happened at all.

Being bullied often implies being made a pariah by an entire social group. Not everyone has the balls to stand up against a very big group of bullies. It's more likely they might eventually hang out with more hardcore kids and then intimidate the previous bullies into not doing it, and repeating the cycle. I don't see how this makes a kid mentally better, only more suited to be some gang member. Either that or end up like the kid in my signature.

SkyBurn
02-27-2013, 08:25 AM
No-one is to blame for a suicide other than the person who kills themselves.

And the empathy award goes to:

...drum roll please...

Everybody but you! Congrats! :rolleyes:

alfieb
02-27-2013, 08:26 AM
And the empathy award goes to:

...drum roll please...

Everybody but you! Congrats! :rolleyes:

I have empathy for plenty of people.

The ones who kill themselves aren't worth it.

amerinese
02-27-2013, 08:31 AM
I think you guys dont understand the seriousness of bullying. Because you were probably never bullied really. And it can be psychological too not only physical. What is with mobbing at work place do you support that too? Sometimes the bullies are meaner and physically stronger or are more. And the seriousness of bullying shows in suicide of victims. Everyne has a right to keep his mental and physical well being. You cant understand because your life was not destroyed

What are you talking about, "mobbing in the workplace?" I don't understand. Please give an example.

If you were bullied in school, what form did it take, and how did you respond?

Obviously I have been bullied, and I think most people have. When you are the kid who is new, or different, etc. other kids will attempt to bully you. I am ashamed to admit I have also bullied other kids at different times. Usually in concert with other kids.

I had one friend from 4th until 9th grade. We rode the same bus, were in the same classes, etc. We had the same interests in comic books, music, etc. He was a bit chubby while I was more skinny. Anyway this boy, when I reflect back, he used to use me as an enabler for his bullying. He never actually fought anyone, nor would he physically pick on them, but he was constantly harrassing people verbally, making fun of them. I was the one, between the two of us, who others knew would fight physically if attacked or seriously provoked.

It eventually ended, though. When we were freshmen in high school, he started trashtalking some sophomore girl in one of his classes. I knew her boyfriend, who was a senior, from one of my classes. One day he tells me that he is going to have to kick my friend's ass because of him insulting his girlfriend. I think she provoked it in part but that's besides the point. He was responding by calling her ugly or whatever, so her boyfriend is going to react. Well I tell this boyfriend, look that guy is a good friend of mine, I'll talk to him, he'll apologize, please do me a favor and don't beat his ass. So I talk to my friend, explain he had better STFU with this girl and apologize to avoid an assbeating, and he does.

Then like a week later, she says something to provoke him, he runs his mouth again, and sure enough this boyfriend catches him in the hallway and knocks the piss out of him. He was crying afterwards. It was pathetic.

I saw that guy about 5 years ago after finding him on MySpace. We met up and discussed old times, including that incident. I told him I tried to save his ass that time, but his mouth just wouldn't allow it. He said, yeah, he understood. LOL.

Wadaad
02-27-2013, 08:31 AM
LOL School is pretty much fun and games compared to real life...if you cant cut it in school, maybe its for the best you kill yourself, 100% srs.

SkyBurn
02-27-2013, 08:33 AM
I have empathy for plenty of people.

The ones who kill themselves aren't worth it.

Only a religious person would say something like that.

Suicide is not a sin. It is an escape. Maybe if people like you were more empathetic, and cared about the mentally unstable, potentially suicidal individuals would realise that life can get better.

alfieb
02-27-2013, 08:34 AM
Yes, it's an escape. Escape is for cowards.

Suicide is the easy way out. Except for the relatives, co-workers, and friends of the shithead who kills himself/herself.

Bullies aren't cowards, they're assholes. People who are bullied who hang themselves are cowards.

Everyone reaches a point in their life where they wish they could just end it. Only the most pathetic and desperate make the decision to actually pull the plug.

Wadaad
02-27-2013, 08:37 AM
Only a religious person would say something like that.

Suicide is not a sin. It is an escape. Maybe if people like you were more empathetic, and cared about the mentally unstable, potentially suicidal individuals would realise that life can get better.

Someone who thinks the societal pressures of school to be so unbearable that they contemplate suicide, will find other reasons to contemplate suicide in their adult lives too. No need for empathy, simple understanding of this fact is enough to convince me that feeling sorry for such people is a waste of time.


Yes, it's an escape. Escape is for cowards.

Suicide is the easy way out. Except for the relatives, co-workers, and friends of the shithead who kills himself/herself.

Bullies aren't cowards, they're assholes. People who are bullied who hang themselves are cowards.

Everyone reaches a point in their life where they wish they could just end it. Only the most pathetic and desperate make the decision to actually pull the plug.

It takes balls to actually pull the trigger though.

SkyBurn
02-27-2013, 08:39 AM
Someone who thinks the societal pressures of school to be so unbearable that they contemplate suicide, will find other reasons to contemplate suicide in their adult lives too. No need for empathy, simple understanding of this fact is enough to convince me that feeling sorry for such people is a waste of time.

Teenagers and kids can be unstable, and may not handle pressure from idiots.

Your stance is ridiculous. By that logic, we might as well throw the bipolar and depressed into a ditch because worrying for them is such a waste of time.

alfieb
02-27-2013, 08:40 AM
It takes balls to actually pull the trigger though.
Not when you see it as an escape.

Do you really think Hitler was brave to kill himself? Fuck no. He knew that if he didn't, he was going to be skullfucked by Stalin.

liamliam
02-27-2013, 08:40 AM
LOL School is pretty much fun and games compared to real life...if you cant cut it in school, maybe its for the best you kill yourself, 100% srs.

You really are a sociopath aren't you! :rolleyes: So if you have children, will you be treating them with the same sort of sensitivity? :rolleyes: Lets say your daughter comes home one day and says she's been bullied and is very upset, what will you do, tell her to go kill herself? :eek:

legolasbozo
02-27-2013, 08:43 AM
Army duty is obligation in Turkey, so 2 years before i had a call of duty, so i joined make my military services. İf you graduated from college, you make it 6 months, other way 1 year long-term obligatory. İ made inside of a shithole, exile place. because every long-terms were felon. thief, dealers even murder. İf you are recruit, you have to obey them, and must do what they say. We were 7 short-term private. And they were always pushing our limits, we were like their new toys. They were satisfying their ego via us. According to their logic, we will always command them their entire life, so they couldn't loose the chance to command us. They were bullying us. Second week i beated a guy, leader of group. But then i apologized of him. Because there is no way out, nobody helps you. Because sergeat and other stuff don't care for your complains. That fuckers just care for if the works is on. They don't give a s**t how it is going on.

The point of this story, there are always bullkies around you, and always will be. İn your office some of your colleagues, not with violence way but they would chase different ways though. So don't afraid of bulky personalities, just challenge them. But not in under army duty. :cool:

Anglojew
02-27-2013, 08:43 AM
Kids will find anything to use as a tactic to dictate a school yard hierarchy, a little like prison. The secret is not to take any shit (in both cases).

Wadaad
02-27-2013, 08:44 AM
Teenagers and kids can be unstable, and may not handle pressure from idiots.

Your stance is ridiculous. By that logic, we might as well throw the bipolar and depressed into a ditch because worrying for them is such a waste of time.

Correction, I said feeling empathy for them is a waste of time. Ofcourse they deserve treatment.

Definition of empathy:
"Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives"

Why should I identify with the feeling of victimization if it comes from an irrational, chemically/hormonally induced place according to you. And if its a character flaw (cowardice), again...even worse.

SkyBurn
02-27-2013, 08:58 AM
Correction, I said feeling empathy for them is a waste of time. Ofcourse they deserve treatment.

Definition of empathy:
"Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives"

Why should I identify with the feeling of victimization if it comes from an irrational, chemically/hormonally induced place according to you. And if its a character flaw (cowardice), again...even worse.

Regardless of the reason for their motives, you have to empathise with the feelings of futility in life which leads them to it. One of the best treatments is empathy.

alfieb
02-27-2013, 09:02 AM
Regardless of the reason for their motives, you have to empathise with the feelings of futility in life which leads them to it. One of the best treatments is empathy.
There is no treatment for dead people.

Wadaad
02-27-2013, 09:02 AM
Regardless of the reason for their motives, you have to empathise with the feelings of futility in life which leads them to it. One of the best treatments is empathy.

You cannot empathise with something unless you identify with it. Unless you yourself feel that life is futile, what you're doing is patronizing them. The best treatment is treatment (and a dose of reality).

SkyBurn
02-27-2013, 09:04 AM
You cannot empathise with something unless you identify with it. Unless you yourself feel that life is futile, what you're doing is patronizing them. The best treatment is treatment (and a dose of reality).

If you think that emotionally troubled kids deserve a good "dose of reality", I highly suggest you get yourself a vasectomy.

Mortimer
02-27-2013, 09:06 AM
I agree pretty much with sky burn and liamliam

Wadaad
02-27-2013, 09:07 AM
If you think that emotionally troubled kids deserve a good "dose of reality", I highly suggest you get yourself a vasectomy.

Some kids are born as siamese twins
Some are born with club foot
Some with heart conditions... Should I go on?

Boo-fuckin-hoo @ 'emotionally troubled kids'

alfieb
02-27-2013, 09:08 AM
I agree pretty much with sky burn and liamliam
Which should be the first clue to them that they're wrong.

Wadaad
02-27-2013, 09:08 AM
I agree pretty much with sky burn and liamliam

Yeah you would...half your posts are complaints about being 'harassed'. How the fuck does one feel harrassed online? Especially based on things he posted? You love playing the victim role, not surprised you had a lifetime of practice.

Mortimer
02-27-2013, 09:18 AM
So you think there is no such thing as cyberbullying? And what you say is completely wrong because i complained my 3 times and reported in my whole internet life. And usually im picked on because of my race or looks like being obese by 5 people or more in chatbox or forum which is quiete unfair because no one backs me up. And i never had a mmean mentality i dont see why to pick on someone for no reason but it gives some satisfaction i agree what others said about such traits

Mortimer
02-27-2013, 09:21 AM
Which should be the first clue to them that they're wrong. whats your problem.

Queen B
02-27-2013, 09:28 AM
So you think there is no such thing as cyberbullying? And what you say is completely wrong because i complained my 3 times and reported in my whole internet life. And usually im picked on because of my race or looks like being obese by 5 people or more in chatbox or forum which is quiete unfair because no one backs me up. And i never had a mmean mentality i dont see why to pick on someone for no reason but it gives some satisfaction i agree what others said about such traits
Cyberbullying is tottaly different from face-to-face one.

In real life, most of times you have no other choice, and you are bullied of what you are (be it shy/fat/ugly/nerd/poor/black/asian/etc....)

In internet, a) you have the choice NOT to enter a certain site or forum b) you have the choice NOT to expose your personal info and 3) you are what you SAY you are, due to anonimity

Mortimer
02-27-2013, 09:32 AM
Cyberbullying is tottaly different from face-to-face one.

In real life, most of times you have no other choice, and you are bullied of what you are (be it shy/fat/ugly/nerd/poor/black/asian/etc....)

In internet, a) you have the choice NOT to enter a certain site or forum b) you have the choice NOT to expose your personal info and 3) you are what you SAY you are, due to anonimityi agree real life bullying is worse but it can get quiete bad on the internet too especially if you revealed yourself

kwestos
02-27-2013, 09:35 AM
To the subject of suicide, some researches show that there is a genetic factor involved, I dont condemn people comitting suicie as a rule, however when it is eg a father of five who commits suicude because of bankrupcy or debts is not a good choice, its different in case of old, lonely, sick or mentally disturbed people. Its quite important what you leave behind. If theres nothing or nearly nothing its not the same case as if theres a lot.
To the subject of bullying- I have not been bullied in classical way in my life, even though a was a 'good student' in primary school, potentially a victim but it didnt happen. I had a different experience, quite ashaming, I had a guy around me for years who called me 'his friend' and pretended and manipulated but what I didnt want to see but finally saw was that he was bullying me.
He kind of blackmailed me into it and it was really simple- with excuses 'i am doing it for your good' (sounds gay nearly) and big words 'we are close friends, friends for good and bad' etc, in fact he would criticise everything I said or did, make stupid jokes and remarks, the guy is problematic anyway cause he broke relationship with nearly all friends from high school and i was nearly the last one.

Colonel Frank Grimes
02-27-2013, 09:35 AM
Why do people bully? It's the nature of an animal to take advantage of a weaker creature and man is an animal. Laws are put up to allow humanity to move above their animal nature but in a school yard the Law of Nature rules. If I push someone I can be charged with simple assault. If nine year old me pushes a kid in school I get yelled at by a teacher and I don't get recess. One is a much more serious punishment than the other, obviously.

alfieb
02-27-2013, 09:37 AM
whats your problem.
Stupidity. I'm allergic to it.

kwestos
02-27-2013, 09:40 AM
Why do people bully? It's the nature of an animal to take advantage of a weaker creature and man is an animal. Laws are put up to allow humanity to move above their animal nature but in a school yard the Law of Nature rules. If I push someone I can be charged with simple assault. If nine year old me pushes a kid in school I get yelled at by a teacher and I don't get recess.

I think its more complicated. 'Animal nature' is to take what you need and remove obstacles with no mercy- to survive, to procreate etc. Bullying is not about any real gain, apart from maybe gain in social ladder, but bullies aim the weakest that arent a threat anyway, in animal hordes its usually the strong oponents that you alpha male fights and clashes with, the weak or obedient ones are in the shadow, while here the bully pick up a silent, quiet, non-threteaning unit and starts systematic tortures. I dont see much similiarity here.

Queen B
02-27-2013, 09:43 AM
i agree real life bullying is worse but it can get quiete bad on the internet too especially if you revealed yourself
But noone is forcing you to reveal yourself. And if you, its your choice.
F.e. if someone post naked pictures on the net, its his/her fault if he/she sees this pics in porn sites.

Wadaad
02-27-2013, 09:47 AM
I think its more complicated. 'Animal nature' is to take what you need and remove obstacles with no mercy- to survive, to procreate etc. Bullying is not about any real gain, apart from maybe gain in social ladder, but bullies aim the weakest that arent a threat anyway, in animal hordes its usually the strong oponents that you alpha male fights and clashes with, the weak or obedient ones are in the shadow, while here the bully pick up a silent, quiet, non-threteaning unit and starts systematic tortures. I dont see much similiarity here.

I used to have 3 cats (2 were mine, one was a kitty purchased by my girlfriend). When left on their own to engage in 'play' it seemed pretty harmless, but after serious observation it was obvious one of my cats was bullying my gf's kitty. For instance, when they played in the shoe box, my cat would slam the lid with the kitty inside the shoe box, and wouldnt let him out...or he would trip out on the kitty if it dared using the litter box while he's around. It was obvious they were playing the same roles in the litter box that kids play in school, with one choosing to be timid and the other being the bully.

Colonel Frank Grimes
02-27-2013, 09:48 AM
I think its more complicated. 'Animal nature' is to take what you need and remove obstacles with no mercy- to survive, to procreate etc. Bullying is not about any real gain, apart from maybe gain in social ladder, but bullies aim the weakest that arent a threat anyway, in animal hordes its usually the strong oponents that you alpha male fights and clashes with, the weak or obedient ones are in the shadow, while here the bully pick up a silent, quiet, non-threteaning unit and starts systematic tortures. I dont see much similiarity here.

Few people like to fight on equal terms; losing means embarrassment and loss of social standing. But they also need to show they can force their will on others. They only fight if they know they can win for sure. In that way they give the impression they're willing to use violence if they have to do so but the reality is they rather not unless they have an advantage. From my experience the tough kids wouldn't fight each other if they could avoid it. The tough kids were happy just to be perceived as tough and some of them kept up the perception by targeting those they thought were weaker. If a fight did happen between two tough kids it was usually over something that had nothing to do with one of them directly but rather indirectly. For example, in the public high school of my town the two toughest kids (basically the biggest kids) fought because one of them smacked the other's cousin around and so they had to fight. Otherwise they'd avoid each other.

SkyBurn
02-27-2013, 09:49 AM
I used to have 3 cats (2 were mine, one was a kitty purchased by my girlfriend). When left on their own to engage in 'play' it seemed pretty harmless, but after serious observation it was obvious one of my cats was bullying my gf's kitty. For instance, when they played in the shoe box, my cat would slam the lid with the kitty inside the shoe box, and wouldnt let him out...or he would trip out on the kitty if it dared using the litter box while he's around. It was obvious they were playing the same roles in the litter box that kids play in school, with one choosing to be timid and the other being the bully.

So did you leave the cats together? If you did, I will lose all respect for you.

Wadaad
02-27-2013, 09:56 AM
So did you leave the cats together? If you did, I will lose all respect for you.

Of course not...its hard to discipline felines but theres ways around it, like leaving more litter boxes than there are cats, etc. I get your point, but I dont want my cats to live by the law of nature because they're pets. My children however, would be helped much more if I didnt coddle them as if they're some domesticated animals.

Colonel Frank Grimes
02-27-2013, 09:58 AM
Of course not...its hard to discipline felines but theres ways around it, like leaving more litter boxes than there are cats, etc. I get your point, but I dont want my cats to live by the law of nature because they're pets. My children however, would be helped much more if I didnt coddle them as if they're some domesticated animals.

Naw, disciplining felines is easy. Hold the bully kitty down as the other takes a crap in the box and repeat to the bully kitty, "whose the bitch?! You're the bitch!" He'll get the message and be traumatized to boot.

RussiaPrussia
02-27-2013, 10:11 AM
people who bully are weak. I never was bullied even if people tried it many times i could always reply to them. I remember some Moroccan in school some years ago tried to bully me, i cant remember the pre conversation but i asked him that he should familiarize me with his sister. :laugh:

He was so mad and yelled but didnt do anything. Since than he was more quiet to me. Man this was a really shitty class 90% or so where arabs or turks in that, the next class was 90% white and more women than men.

But i didnt liked second class either. It were the typical feminist and liberal believing scum which let it to the first kind of situation in first place.

kwestos
02-27-2013, 10:13 AM
I used to have 3 cats (2 were mine, one was a kitty purchased by my girlfriend). When left on their own to engage in 'play' it seemed pretty harmless, but after serious observation it was obvious one of my cats was bullying my gf's kitty. For instance, when they played in the shoe box, my cat would slam the lid with the kitty inside the shoe box, and wouldnt let him out...or he would trip out on the kitty if it dared using the litter box while he's around. It was obvious they were playing the same roles in the litter box that kids play in school, with one choosing to be timid and the other being the bully.

possibly, i dont know though whether it equals to bullying, you could also say they were having fun, hard to say. The fact that kids are all different and some are more natural leaders and some are shy and some even prefer to not to be a leader, so when they have fun some have more to say than others or more influence, the same with adults, but bullying is a few steps further I think.



Few people like to fight on equal terms; losing means embarrassment and loss of social standing. But they also need to show they can force their will on others. They only fight if they know they can win for sure. In that way they give the impression they're willing to use violence if they have to do so but the reality is they rather not unless they have an advantage. From my experience the tough kids wouldn't fight each other if they could avoid it. The tough kids were happy just to be perceived as tough and they kept up the perception by focusing on those they thought were weaker. If a fight did happen between two tough kids it was usually over something that had nothing to do with them but they were "forced" to fight. For example, in the public high school of my town the two toughest kids (basically the biggest kids) fought because one of them smacked the other's cousin around and so they had to fight. Otherwise they'd avoid each other.

Yes various factors and calculations come into play, but I am not sure how targetting some weak silnt kid would raise your position- at the end of the day everyone else knows that the target is weak? Many people will think of a bully as someone who want to dress to impress more than achieve a real respect, or maybe he wants to show that is ruthless and able to do anything so others are scared to deal with such a 'psycho'. However there are also some rules which ban the group to deal with bullies hence they aoften get away with it. I can imagine that in the wild if one person is aggressive and tries to indimidate the rest they would finally group together and kill him.
Its complicated matter, social mechanism, are we good or bad, why dictators exist (arent they bulllies too in a way?), sometimes bullying may be a way for others to focus the attention on someone else than me. Anyway I had similar observation from my primary school, the bullies were mostlyt from pathological families, they would start drinking and smoking already when 12, sometimes steal or fight and tend to bully. I dont think they were especially popular or liked or respected though, rather feared of.
Basically a bully lives in a self-denial, as they believe their behaviour gains them popularity and respect, while in fact it isolates them even more, just on outside they are winning.
The real respect or popularity comes from somewhere else I think, however some otherwise popular people may be bullies as well, but not that often as they dont need it.

Another aspect of bullying is its clash with most of traditional moral codes. Most coded say that you should fight on fair terms, defend the weaker and have strenght to face the stronger, do not kick a lying person etc, its ideal life but its a direction too.

Loki
02-27-2013, 10:17 AM
The whole "bullies are cowards" thing is liberal, politically correct propaganda. The truth of the matter is that bullies aren't cowards, they're just selfish assholes who are insecure. The real cowards are the people who allow themselves to be bullied, and the people who see others getting bullied and do nothing to stop it.

That's not always the case. The typical bully is a coward who comes in packs against someone who is alone. And bystanders who don't intervene are the biggest cowards.

Silver_Shadow
02-27-2013, 10:18 AM
Everyone experiences bullying at some point in their life, I myself did when I was in 6th grade (by a group of guys), so I don't see the big deal. I actually learned a lot from being bullied, one very important life lesson I learned was that playing victim gets you no where in life and in fact gets you deemed weak by your peers. Children need to learn to stand up for themselves when they are young so that they don't get walked all over on when they are older. I like that one quote that states "A boy who cant stand up for himself becomes a man who cant up for anything" as its very true.

Flintlocke
02-27-2013, 10:20 AM
Bullying is nothing more than creating a hierarchy in a school environment. It's a wonderful way of observing human nature at work.

alfieb
02-27-2013, 10:20 AM
That's not always the case. The typical bully is a coward who comes in packs against someone who is alone. And bystanders who don't intervene are the biggest cowards.
Group-bullying is usually called peer pressure. Typically, a bully is one guy or girl who makes life hell for an unfortunate person with no self-esteem.

kwestos
02-27-2013, 11:38 AM
Bullying is nothing more than creating a hierarchy in a school environment. It's a wonderful way of observing human nature at work.

But also misleading. When I recall the worst bullies from my teen or pre years and think who they are today it turns out that none are lawyers, presidents or even cashiers, most drank themselves to death already or beg outside a corner shop, maybe prison.

Its interesting that there are also bullies in high positions, but their bullying somehow comes out quite late, at least this is what I observed, they even sometimes recruit fro the victioms in the childhood into bullies in eg a workplace.

Permafrost
02-27-2013, 11:50 AM
Regardless be it in cyberspace or IRL, it's always a lowly behaviour, unfit for civilized men.

liamliam
02-27-2013, 11:56 AM
LOL School is pretty much fun and games compared to real life...if you cant cut it in school, maybe its for the best you kill yourself, 100% srs.

Wadaad, you still didn't answer my question, if your daughter came home saying she had been bullied and was upset, would you tell her to go kill herself?

Zmey Gorynych
02-27-2013, 12:09 PM
I was not a bully but also never allowed anyone to bully me. I had two spells of violent behavior, in primary school and college. I remember one incident from 1st or 2nd grade. There were 4 boys who excelled physically (myself included). One of them (and probably the strongest of us all) who was sitting next to me in the classroom kept to himself and never caused any trouble, the other two were neighbors and friends and sort of my rivals :) Both of them knew that they can't beat me in a one to one fight so one day after classes they decided to corner me. The fight began and I managed to punch each of them but luck was rapidly turning away from me so I grabbed my bag (it was one of those soviet style heavy bags) and struck them with it in the head, dizzy from the blows they were forced to back down. I walked away with this air of superiority when in fact at one point I was shitting my pants at the idea of losing the fight but I stood my ground and no one ever disputed my status.
Another memorable event was in college. Now you have to know that living in a campus is pretty much like being in the army. Newbies have to "pay respect" to the elders, buy them drinks and stuff like that. I was in my freshman year (17 or 18 years old) and I got into a verbal argument with a guy, the conversation degenerated and he threatened to cut me if I didn't shut up and apologize. Upon hearing this I went into rage and literally mopped the flour with him. He was with 2 friends who grabbed their phones and started calling. When the fight was over I learned that he was something of a gang (that specialized in car theft) member. These 2 friends of his approached me and told me that there is someone who wants to talk to me, they also mentioned how fucked I was for what I just did. I once again looked at them with an air of clear superiority and grinned :D They guy on the phone who was their leader asked me what happened and in the end told me to come and see him. I decided that if I'm gonna be the tough guy I must play the role right until the end so I told him that the way I see things is that he wants to talk to me not the other way around so he's the one who should come to me :D Needles to say that after this incident I became something of a campus legend, elders would come to me to say Hi and ask me how I was ... it was fucking hilarious :D

larali
02-27-2013, 03:00 PM
I've been on both sides of the bully spectrum. When I was being bullied, it was because these girls in my high school were loud obnoxious beeyatches from broken homes that wanted to pick on me because I was smarter than they were (and my jeans were too short xD)

When I was being the bully, it was because I felt like the person I was "bullying" was being unfriendly to me (looking back I realize she was shy and insecure) and it was a sort of defense mechanism. (This is in real life, not something on forums).

The nice thing is, once you grow up, it does get better. People still bully sometimes but you just don't give a shit anymore, because the only people who do that as adults are people with terribly poor social skills, and you don't care what people like that think.

Colonel Frank Grimes
02-27-2013, 08:48 PM
Yes various factors and calculations come into play, but I am not sure how targetting some weak silnt kid would raise your position- at the end of the day everyone else knows that the target is weak? Many people will think of a bully as someone who want to dress to impress more than achieve a real respect, or maybe he wants to show that is ruthless and able to do anything so others are scared to deal with such a 'psycho'.

Being friends with the meanest kid in school has its benefits; no one bothers you.



However there are also some rules which ban the group to deal with bullies hence they aoften get away with it. I can imagine that in the wild if one person is aggressive and tries to indimidate the rest they would finally group together and kill him.

You're assuming the bully picks on kids who everyone else likes; they don't. Weak doesn't just mean a lack of physical strength or courage but also not having any friends strong enough or the courage to back you up when you need them.



Its complicated matter, social mechanism, are we good or bad, why dictators exist (arent they bulllies too in a way?), sometimes bullying may be a way for others to focus the attention on someone else than me. Anyway I had similar observation from my primary school, the bullies were mostlyt from pathological families, they would start drinking and smoking already when 12, sometimes steal or fight and tend to bully. I dont think they were especially popular or liked or respected though, rather feared of.
Basically a bully lives in a self-denial, as they believe their behaviour gains them popularity and respect, while in fact it isolates them even more, just on outside they are winning.

Fear goes a long way more than respect or being liked.


The real respect or popularity comes from somewhere else I think, however some otherwise popular people may be bullies as well, but not that often as they dont need it.

Another aspect of bullying is its clash with most of traditional moral codes. Most coded say that you should fight on fair terms, defend the weaker and have strenght to face the stronger, do not kick a lying person etc, its ideal life but its a direction too.

I bully people on these forums and I'm the most popular kid in the neighborhood :D

kwestos
02-28-2013, 10:23 AM
The bullied kids indeed seem to be lacking more just physical strenght, rather self-confidence, friends, supportive family, quite often the trigger may be just being fat or wearing glasses and then theres discovery that the person is also defendless. The bully has his goals, then it comes behaviour of the rest. Sometimes all the crowd jins the bully, sometimes there are a few active pals and silent majority, sometimes threatened silent minority. Sometimes the bully is liked and the bullied gets dislkied, sometimes the other way.
However in fact its too easy to join the bully, probaby most people have those experiences in childhood- even some small episodes.

I think bullying is much less accepted among adults and bullies rather do not gain much popularity, however they can still often have things their way, intimidationg others. I always wondered what makes a gropu of people fearing one person. It happens in workplaces. Noone likes the supervisor, talk behind, but are scared to death to face him or even complain and it goes.

Tyfani
02-28-2013, 10:32 AM
Well, someone can be a bully because he tries to feel strong (especialy if he has problems in family)
Or he can be a bully just cause he has EVERYTHING so he looks down on people who don't.

Well, about being bulled... I think that it's up to the person to protect himself and his pride as well... Usually the bullies are coward. They just need a good violent reaction to make them hide away from you no matter if you want or not...

I remember when I was 1st grade on junior high school some guys from the 3rd tried to make me leave from the place I was sitting (it was the best place at my school to chill out). Well... As I said they tried... Luckily I didn't need to punch anyone, usually just looking at someone is enough.

But my point is: being patient with bullies will only make the situation worse... I cannot say the reason for this phenomenon, but action is the only thing that can help :)

Zmey Gorynych
02-28-2013, 11:37 AM
Children don’t a have a fully developed personality and from this point of view they are truer to themselves, truer to the human nature. Their actions are not restricted by morality, rules and such. Bullying is just a method of establishing hierarchy (pecking order) and not a consequence of inferiority complex or weakness (not of the bully in any case). From what I managed to observe bullies come from all sort of backgrounds so this is not an issue, the one connecting trait of all bullies is the anti-social behavior which is IMO an indicator of a potential criminal element. These kids have a higher emotional awareness (they're instinctual individuals) and they specialize (without realizing it) in the identification of certain emotions like fear, anger which enables them to find their targets or avoid confrontations that can be detrimental to them.

Flintlocke
02-28-2013, 11:41 AM
Kids don't have fully developed testosterone so they can be really violent like adults and not fully developed brain either that would make them restrain themselves. But kids are vicious, self obsessed little sadists, they are everything the politically correct crowd despises. They have their instinctual standards and they torture every one who does not live up to these standards. The fat kid, the stupid kid, the geek, the foreign kid, the new kid, etc etc. They don't do it because they're weak, it's a way of showing them "live up to our standards or suffer" so when you show them you won't stand their bullshit and kick back they respect you and you get some good points, then they go torture the other kids that won't fight back.