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Phlegethon
08-18-2009, 09:07 AM
British National Party: Mad as well as bad

The Guardian, Monday 17 August 2009

The near million who voted for the British National party in June's Euro-elections are certainly angry and no doubt racist to varying degrees, but how many of them would really be up for sending a gunboat down the Liffey? Very few, because there are surely not a million people so lunatic that they would want to start a war on these islands. Yet that would surely be the result of the BNP pledge of "welcoming Eire as well as Ulster as equal partners in a federation of the nations of the British Isles".

Just like the cheery talk of welcoming Ireland back into the union, the party's Derbyshire garden party over the weekend provides the flimsiest veil for a programme that is not only nasty, but rooted in delusion and paranoia. Alongside the tea, cakes and patriotic memorabilia – designed to create a "family" atmosphere and reinforce the half-respectabilty afforded by winning two Euro-seats – the Red, White and Blue festival featured a clutch of white crosses to commemorate people supposedly killed "as a result of anti-white violence". Persecution complex by day gave way to evening self-confidence, as far-right fanatics outside the camp gave fascist salutes and shouted "sieg heil".

We report today how the BNP shipped in fascists from overseas to address its gathering. The party leader, Nick Griffin, no doubt regards links with far-right parties abroad – many of which are much better established than his own ragbag outfit – as a way to make the BNP look serious. Tellingly, however, his attempts to form a grouping in Brussels failed, as even fellow extremists feared the damage that would be done by associating with the BNP.

It is not hard to see why. A handful of BNP leaders may nowadays don suits, but a large proportion of the activists, councillors and candidates remain boot boys, often with criminal convictions for violence. Mr Griffin's one fellow MEP, Andrew Brons, has a genteel manner but was, as a young man, involved with Nazi-style groups that engaged in arson attacks on synagogues. He has German, and quite possibly Jewish, ancestry making his embrace of the most exclusive form of British nationalism a source of psychological speculation.

The brutal mindset of Griffin himself was betrayed only last month, when he suggested that the Europeans should "sink several ... boats" carrying African immigrants. Mindful, perhaps, that few of those who had voted him would truly support drowning men, women and children at sea, he added as an afterthought that they might be thrown life jackets. The hope must be, as has already happened in some town halls, that the more the public gets to know the BNP the more they will lose patience with people who are as unpleasant as they are odd.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/aug/17/bnp-griffin-andrew-brons-european

Jarl
08-18-2009, 09:16 AM
Yet that would surely be the result of the BNP pledge of "welcoming Eire as well as Ulster as equal partners in a federation of the nations of the British Isles". Just like the cheery talk of welcoming Ireland back into the union,

What's this all about? Ireland wants to annex Ulster, and BNP wants to annex Ireland???

Loki
08-18-2009, 09:34 AM
What's this all about? Ireland wants to annex Ulster, and BNP wants to annex Ireland???

Makes perfect sense to me! :D

SwordoftheVistula
08-18-2009, 09:37 AM
That doesn't seem like a bad idea, having Ireland, Ulster, Scotland, Wales, and England as a loose federation rather than the current setup of UK/EU

Jarl
08-18-2009, 10:38 AM
That doesn't seem like a bad idea, having Ireland, Ulster, Scotland, Wales, and England as a loose federation rather than the current setup of UK/EU

That is slightly problematic. The Irish will never accept it.

Loki
08-18-2009, 10:49 AM
It was like that from 1801 to 1927 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Ireland). The glory years! ;)

Freomæg
08-18-2009, 11:52 AM
The agenda in that article was 'left-wing' and deceptive even by the Guardian's standards. I smell desperation.

Beorn
08-18-2009, 12:04 PM
If the BNP are wanting to sniff around Ireland then they will lose my vote. It's bad enough having the BNP becoming synonymous with just the English, for them to drag out all the terrible centuries of yore.

Don't stop the devolution. Stop the immigration.

Boo BNP!

HawkR
08-18-2009, 12:23 PM
The agenda in that article was 'left-wing' and deceptive even by the Guardian's standards. I smell desperation.

Have you not, before now? The lefties have been desperate for a long time now, and it looks like they're loosing it ever more.

Poltergeist
08-18-2009, 01:02 PM
Suggesting that boats carrying immigrants should be sunk is already a commonplace populist phrase, used at different points of time by various right-wing viz. anti-immigrationist politicians, with an aim to "shock" the public, to elicit a reaction from the establishmment media and politicians etc. The phrase was for the first time used, if my memory serves me well, by the leader of the Northern Italian secessionist party "Lega Nord", Umberto Bossi. The politics of "shocking" or provoking the public by making supposedly "politically incorrect" statements hasn't borne any tangible fruit as yet, to my knowledge at least. Or if there is some result coming from it, it's mostly short-lived and insignificant.

Murphy
08-18-2009, 01:09 PM
What's this all about? Ireland wants to annex Ulster, and BNP wants to annex Ireland???

The Republic of Ireland doesn't want Ulster.


That doesn't seem like a bad idea, having Ireland, Ulster, Scotland, Wales, and England as a loose federation rather than the current setup of UK/EU

Why should the Irish join any federation with England? They—with all due respect to Wat etc.—have proven that they are not trustworthy. The day I accept any closer relation with England than is due a neighbouring nation is when England renounces the Reformation, rejoins the Catholic Church, and invites Franz, Duke of Bavaria or his heirs to the crowns of three kingdoms, not one.


It was like that from 1801 to 1927 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Ireland). The glory years! ;)

The glory years? The years that cemented the rift between Ireland and England so that in all reality things will never be the same again.


If the BNP are wanting to sniff around Ireland then they will lose my vote. It's bad enough having the BNP becoming synonymous with just the English, for them to drag out all the terrible centuries of yore.

Don't stop the devolution. Stop the immigration.

Boo BNP!

Hear, Hear!

Regards,
Eóin.

Liffrea
08-18-2009, 04:14 PM
The BNP, to my knowledge, have never suggested "annexing" anyone, they have suggested an island federation, which would (if they wanted to) include the Irish republic. Personally I believe a federation is the only realistic way the UK will survive in the future, I very much doubt Ireland would want to be part of it.

Talk of the BNP sponsoring an invasion of Ireland is just yet more idiotic attempts at smear, if there is no news to report then make it up.

As for the boats comment, probably not the most astute comment to make, even if you can reason an argument from it, but given the current public mood I doubt it would lose the BNP many votes.

I do sometimes wonder at the BNP, though, enough to make me think hard, they do have a way of deliberately playing the bad guy and shooting themselves in the foot (it's not all smear or red agents either, I have knocked around with the BNP enought to know there are still half heads there). Given the antics of the UAF and ANL as well who seem to be falling over themselves to win votes for the BNP I sometimes get the feeling we are being taken the piss out of and it's all just a big game, probably why I stopped having anything to do with overt nationalist politics (I used to help out a bit with the BNP) a while back.

Groenewolf
08-18-2009, 04:44 PM
Why should the Irish join any federation with England? They—with all due respect to Wat etc.—have proven that they are not trustworthy. The day I accept any closer relation with England than is due a neighbouring nation is when England renounces the Reformation, rejoins the Catholic Church, and invites Franz, Duke of Bavaria or his heirs to the crowns of three kingdoms, not one.

Large part of it is probaly not very lickely to happen. But reading your post you want it become some kind of confederal entity in wich the tree seperate parts keep a high level of political autonomy?

Murphy
08-18-2009, 04:49 PM
Large part of it is probaly not very lickely to happen.

Exactly ;).


But reading your post you want it become some kind of confederal entity in wich the tree seperate parts keep a high level of political autonomy?

Simply put, if Ireland was to become a kingdom again, I would only accept a Stuart heir who has a right to the Irish throne. Otherwise, I deal with a Republic. But the heir of the House of Stuart also has a claim to the thrones of England, Scotland and France and technically his own independent claim to Bavaria.

England, Scotland and Ireland would remain three distinct and independent kingdoms who are in personal union with one another due to the monarch. That's it.

Of course, this is simply a day dream.

Regards,
Eóin.

SwordoftheVistula
08-19-2009, 09:23 AM
That is slightly problematic. The Irish will never accept it.


Why should the Irish join any federation with England?

Aren't they already joined in a federation now, the European Union?

Jarl
08-19-2009, 09:49 AM
The Republic of Ireland doesn't want Ulster.

What makes you think so? Didn't Ireland support IRA? Isn't Sin Feinn a republican party?

Murphy
08-19-2009, 10:32 AM
Aren't they already joined in a federation now, the European Union?

I don't support the European Union either...? All we did when we joined the European Union was trade one empire and one foreign capital for another.


What makes you think so?

The Rep. doesn't support armed struggle.


Didn't Ireland support IRA?

Irish people support the IRA, the Rep. of Ireland doesn't.


Isn't Sin Feinn a republican party?

It isn't the only Republican party and they are hardly influential in the Rep.

Regards,
Eóin.

Loki
08-19-2009, 10:35 AM
Irish people support the IRA,


Perhaps not all Irish people support terrorists (I hope). :confused:

Murphy
08-19-2009, 11:00 AM
Perhaps not all Irish people support terrorists (I hope). :confused:

Of course not all Irish people support the IRA. I apologies if my statement there seemed to cover all Irishmen, that wasn't my intention. I was differentiating between the people and the government.

But I don't consider them terrorists ;).

Regards,
Eóin.

Jarl
08-19-2009, 11:05 AM
The Rep. doesn't support armed struggle.

Neither does the provisional IRA, anymore. Nor republican/nationalist parties in Ulster. Yet, don't they want to incorporate Ulster using political means?


Irish people support the IRA, the Rep. of Ireland doesn't.

Perhaps. The Republic represents the Irish people and their interests. Sin Feinn is fifth largest, but would the other parties not support unification? Would they object?

Murphy
08-19-2009, 11:13 AM
Neither does the provisional IRA, anymore. Nor republican/nationalist parties in Ulster. Yet, don't they want to incorporate Ulster using political means?

I do not believe that Irish Unification and Independence can be decided in a British Parliment. Though perhaps I am being over-emotional when I say that if you don't support armed struggle, you don't support Irish freedom.

I simply don't believe anyone in their right mind can believe that Sinn Féin's tactics can work. Especially since they're losing their grip on nationalist communities in the north.


The Republic represents the Irish people and their interests.

xD Jarl, you crack me up!


Sin Feinn is fifth largest, but would the other parties not support unification? Would they object?

I honestly don't think the bums in the Rep. would want to take over the north. I think they want what Britain wants - normalisation and incorporation.

Regards,
Eóin.

Jarl
08-19-2009, 11:20 AM
xD Jarl, you crack me up!

Seems like you're over-emotional, and I'm too much of an idealist ;) Looks like Irish democracy is far from being a perfect one.

Freomæg
08-19-2009, 11:49 AM
Have you not, before now? The lefties have been desperate for a long time now, and it looks like they're loosing it ever more.
Of course. Just saying the agenda appears more and more blatant as events move forward.