Bosniaks and Bosnian Serbs

[Loki]

How closely are they related ethnically? Since Bosniaks are Muslim Slavs ... is religion the only historical distinction between the two groups?

[Loki]

I find the identity of Bosniaks interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosniaks#Expansion_and_the_Bosnian_Kingdom

Eventually, a powerful Bosnian Kingdom evolved on the territory of present-day Bosnia in the 14th and 15th century following the coronation of Tvrtko I of Bosnia as the first Bosnian king in 1377, also expanding into neighboring Serb and Croat dominions. However, even with the emergence of a kingdom, no concrete Bosnian identity emerged; religious plurality, independent-minded nobility, and a rugged, mountainous terrain precluded cultural and political unity. As Noel Malcolm stated: "All that one can sensibly say about the ethnic identity of the Bosnians is this: they were the Slavs who lived in Bosnia."

[Rastko]

There was no Bosniak nation until 1993. and that's the biggest truth.

[Loki]

There was no Bosniak nation until 1993. and that's the biggest truth.

Sorry, even I know that is nonsense.

[Rastko]

Sorry, even I know that is nonsense.

How so?

On the census 1991. only 1280 people declared themselves as Bosniaks.

EDIT: I don't think being a young nation is bad per se,everyone has to start at some point.

[Loki]

How so?

On the census 1991. only 1280 people declared themselves as Bosniaks.

You can thank the Serbs and Croats for that, for suppressing Bosnian ethnic identity. They even have a distinct language for fuck's sake - a Slavic language inbetween Croat and Serbian.

Bosnians were unable to list themselves as Bosnians, and they were simply referred to as "Muslims" and had to accept that.

[Rastko]

Supressing Bosnian identity while being Bosnians themselves??

Bosnian language??

They were able to list themselves as they wanted especially in 1991. when turmoils already started.

[Mraz]

How so?

On the census 1991. only 1280 people declared themselves as Bosniaks.

We were "Muslim by nationality" and it was the only denomination allowed by commies.
Negating other people's identity...Inferiority complex I guess.

[Loki]

Bosnian language??


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_language

[Loki]

We were "Muslim by nationality" and it was the only denomination allowed by commies.
Negating other people's identity...Inferiority complex I guess.

Indeed.

A Bosnian's identity as a Bosnian - even if it originally referred to his geographical homeland or state membership - has roots going back many centuries, whereas the classification of any Christian Bosnian as a Serb or a Croat goes back barely a century. The idea of being Bosnian Muslim in a "national" (as opposed to a religious) sense is even more recent.

[Twistedmind]

You can thank the Serbs and Croats for that, for suppressing Bosnian ethnic identity. They even have a distinct language for fuck's sake - a Slavic language inbetween Croat and Serbian.

Bosnians were unable to list themselves as Bosnians, and they were simply referred to as "Muslims" and had to accept that.

Loki, most of Bosnians, at least from time when census was recorded were Serbs and Croats. What language? It is same language, at best diferent standard of it. Differences between American and British English are comparable with differences of three, now four languages.
Before calling themselves Muslims they even called themselves Turks.

[Hurrem sultana]

The greatest proof of our identity comes from the census when we had to choose serbian or croatian

then Bosnia had the greatest number of people that were "others",,it was very negative viewed ,some communists even went as far as calling us "hidden enemies" .After that we were allowed to be "Muslimani" with capital M

[Hurrem sultana]

Anyway,bosnian lexikon is the oldest in Balkans ,from the 16th century,,,if there is no bosnian language then how come there is a lexikon of it in times when neither serbs nor croats had one?

There are also other proof,like poems where the language bosnian is mentioned

[Hurrem sultana]

"Mnogo je lijepih rječnika napisano,
Sve kao dragi kamen probranih i omiljenih,
Ali nema napisana na bosanskom jeziku,
Ni sastavljena u prozi ni skićena u pjesmu,
Moje je započeti, a Božije da mi dade da uspijem". (Potur-Šahidija, 1631. godine)


This is the "pre word" of Muhamed Hevai Uskufi who wrote the first bosnian lexikon

[Lena]

They even have a distinct language for fuck's sake - a Slavic language inbetween Croat and Serbian.

Could you elaborate on the above, pls :) ?


Bosnians were unable to list themselves as Bosnians, and they were simply referred to as "Muslims" and had to accept that.

You're writing about it like it was alright and happily accepted by gov. to list your self as Muslim, Orthodox or Catholic.

[Lena]

Before calling themselves Muslims they even called themselves Turks.

Sad but true.

[Zmey Gorynych]

The bosniak identity is a fabricated one as are a few other across Europe, many countries that have no reason to be ... my 2 cents on the subject :)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_language

from the wiki article:

Standard Bosnian is based on the most widespread dialect of Serbo-Croatian, Shtokavian, more specifically on Eastern Herzegovinian, which is also the basis of Standard Croatian, Serbian, and Montenegrin

[Loki]

Before calling themselves Muslims they even called themselves Turks.

Even before the Ottoman era there was a Bosnian church. This Bosnian church was regarded by others as heretical, which is probably why Bosnians converted to Islam easier.

[SILNI]

Since Bosniaks are Muslim Slavs ...
Not all , neither they declare as such.

[SILNI]

Sorry, even I know that is nonsense.
It is truth.
Before there were just turks and muslims in Bosnia. Bosniak is new term.

[Hurrem sultana]

"Mi trazimo Bosanstvo,oni nam nude Muslimanstvo,prihvatit cemo i to jer otvara proces"(we ask for Bosnianhood they give us Muslimhood we will accept what they give,it will open up the process-these were the words of our then politician Hamdija Pozderac

[Loki]

The first official dictionary in the Bosnian language was printed in the early 1630s, while the first dictionary in Serbian was printed only in the mid-19th century. Written evidence and records point to the Bosnian language being the official language of the country since at least the Kingdom of Bosnia, as further corroborated by the declaration of the Charter of Ban Kulin, one of the oldest written state documents in the Balkans and one of the oldest to be written in Bosančica.

[SILNI]

You can thank the Serbs and Croats for that, for suppressing Bosnian ethnic identity.
Even today there is not bosnian ethnic indentity but Bosniak one
Bosnian is regional term while bosniak is ethnic term.

[Bosnjakinja]

Loki I command you for your knowledge on this theme ;) But you should know that the most active people on this topic will be people who are not Bosniaks.

Bosniaks were a separate people even during middle ages, they had their medieval kingdom and kings who always called themselves Bosnjanini which is an archaic term for Bosniaks.

The big majority of Bosniaks od middle age Bosnia were Catholics or members of a separate Bosnian Church that called themselves Krstjani, with a small amount of Orthodox in the Hercegovina region (Hum).

[Twistedmind]

Even before the Ottoman era there was a Bosnian church. This Bosnian church was regarded by others as heretical, which is probably why Bosnians converted to Islam easier.
I know about it. Better than anyone on this forum acctually. But Church does not makes you nationality, especialy not in XII-XIV century.
Do you know that Bosnian bans called their language and subjects Serbian and Serbs? Anyway, it is way before making of Serbian nation, which took place in XIX century, like in most of Europe.

There is nothing wrong with them being nation, no matter when formed, it is selfexpression after all. But language is same.

[SILNI]

Bosnians were unable to list themselves as Bosnians, and they were simply referred to as "Muslims" and had to accept that.

Nobody declare itself as bosnian but bosniak serb and croat
bosnian =/= bosniak
bosnian = serb croat & bosniak

understand now?

[Hurrem sultana]

Even before the Ottoman era there was a Bosnian church. This Bosnian church was regarded by others as heretical, which is probably why Bosnians converted to Islam easier.

True! and even our catholics had their bosnian identity

[SILNI]

our catholics
You wish
just keep it that way , serbs will be small puppies compared what croats will do in bosnia if you continue to insult them this way

[Twistedmind]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_II,_Ban_of_Bosnia#The_Ban.27s_edicts


да имамо и дрьжимо до конца свиета непомачно. и за то ставлю я (господинь) бань Стефань свою златѹ печать, да ѥ веровано, сваки да знаѥеть и види истинѹ. а томѹи сѹ .д̄.
повелле..а.. двие латинсци а дви срьпсцие, а све сѹ печатене златиеми печати: двие ста повелле ѹ господина бана Стефана а двие повелле ѹ Дѹбровници. а то ѥ писано подь

Translation:


to have and hold to the end of the world moveless. And for that have put I (lord) ban Stefan my golden seal, to be believed, everyone to know and see the truth. And to that are IV charters..a.. two Latin and two Serbian, and all are sealed with golden seals: two are charters in lord ban Stefan and two charters in Dubrovnik. And that is written under

[Mraz]

How closely are they related ethnically? Since Bosniaks are Muslim Slavs ... is religion the only historical distinction between the two groups?

No, ethnically, Bosniaks are a mix of different European people that converted to Islam then gathered in Bosnia with boundaries changes, Bosnia being the door of Ottoman Empire, deplaced people settled there, on the other side some Bosnian Serbs have Vlach ancestry, Ottomans settled them in Bosnia to repopulate desert areas due to plague.

[Rastko]

Luna,return to your Catholic roots in order to become tr00 Bosnjanin.

[Lena]

"Mnogo je lijepih rječnika napisano,
Sve kao dragi kamen probranih i omiljenih,
Ali nema napisana na bosanskom jeziku,
Ni sastavljena u prozi ni skićena u pjesmu,
Moje je započeti, a Božije da mi dade da uspijem". (Potur-Šahidija, 1631. godine)


This is the "pre word" of Muhamed Hevai Uskufi who wrote the first bosnian lexikon

Was it Turkish/'Bosnian' lexicon in the first place, and pls, do tell what's with his name Muhamed Hevaija Uskufija?

[SILNI]

We were "Muslim by nationality" and it was the only denomination allowed by commies.
Negating other people's identity...Inferiority complex I guess.
Communist party of bosnia was led by muslims
Stop lying. They stopped you to declare as turks , nothing more.
Where is Onur now , he could post some links how much turkish indentity is present in today bosniaks (this time he would have right)

[Bosnjakinja]

The creator of the Greater Serbia idea Ilija Garasanin said this about people in Bosnia:

"Na istočnog veroispovedanija Bošnjake veći upliv imati neće biti za Srbiju težak zadatak Više predostrožnosti i vnimanija na protiv toga iziskuje to da se katolički Bošnjaci zadobijedu"

--

He basically calls Serbs in Bosnia Bosniaks of Orthodox faith and says that turning them into Serbs shouldn't be hard for Serbia.

[iNird]

Bosniaks are Serbs and/or Croats in denial.

[SILNI]

The greatest proof of our identity comes from the census
Post census of demographic before WW2
You were smaller minority than now. So?

[Hurrem sultana]

Was it Turkish/'Bosnian' lexicon in the first place, and pls, do tell what's with his name Muhamed Hevaija Uskufija?

Whats up with his name? we had no standard lastnames,and Potur means muslim villager according to exactly that lexikon ;)

where were serbian dictionaries in 1600?

[Rastko]

So you are basically saying that Bosnia is Christian land?

GTFO Muhamedan invaders.

[Twistedmind]

Whats up with his name? we had no standard lastnames,and Potur means muslim villager according to exactly that lexikon ;)

where were serbian dictionaries in 1600?
Where were Bosnian bans writing in Bosnian 1331? Let me see they were writting in Serbian. ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Charterofstjepan.GIF

[Loki]

Could you elaborate on the above, pls :) ?


I must have phrased it incorrectly - a language within the Serbo-Croat continuum :)

[Bosnjakinja]

So you are basically saying that Bosnia is Christian land?

GTFO Muhamedan invaders.

Why don't you at least live in Bosnia (or Hercegovina) if you consider the country yours? You are as idiotic as the moron that was on your avatar some days ago: all talks about "Croatian" BiH and yet he chooses to live in a different country.

[Zmey Gorynych]

... and then there was a thread to celebrate the freshly established Apricity balkanoid majority :D

[Hurrem sultana]

Where were Bosnian bans writing in Bosnian 1331? Let me see they were writting in Serbian. ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Charterofstjepan.GIF

what makes it serbian? lol !!!

[Twistedmind]

what makes it serbian? lol !!!

dvie latinsci dvie srpscje?
What do you mean srpscje means? Not Norwegian, I could guarentee you. :laugh: Nor Bosnian.

[Minesweeper]

Whats up with his name? we had no standard lastnames,and Potur means muslim villager according to exactly that lexikon ;)

where were serbian dictionaries in 1600?

What's your point? Serbs have a rich medieval literature. It's development stopped after the Turkish conquest. It's silly to talk about Serbian dictionaries in 17. century, their creation was impossible for so many reasons.

[SILNI]

Why don't you at least live in Bosnia (or Hercegovina) if you consider the country yours? You are as idiotic as the moron that was on your avatar some days ago: all talks about "Croatian" BiH and yet he chooses to live in a different country.

Bosnia is not bosniak land by law.
It is a land of 3 nations and bosniaks among them by BiH consitution.
You should act according to that.

[Loki]

Nobody declare itself as bosnian but bosniak serb and croat
bosnian =/= bosniak
bosnian = serb croat & bosniak

understand now?

Yes of course I know that, and this is precisely why I opened this thread - to find out more about it.

What makes a Bosniak? If you guys say they don't really exist as an ethnicity, then what are they? Alien invaders?

[Rastko]

Why don't you at least live in Bosnia (or Hercegovina) if you consider the country yours? You are as idiotic as the moron that was on your avatar some days ago: all talks about "Croatian" BiH and yet he chooses to live in a different country.

Idiotes(gr.)-person unaware of happenings around him.

[Hurrem sultana]

What's your point? Serbs have a rich medieval literature. It's development stopped after the Turkish conquest. It's silly to talk about Serbian dictionaries in 17. century, their creation was impossible for so many reasons.

Doesnt change the fact the oldest lexikon is bosnian!!! :D

[Mraz]

Communist party of bosnia was led by muslims
Stop lying. They stopped you to declare as turks , nothing more.
Where is Onur now , he could post some links how much turkish indentity is present in today bosniaks (this time he would have right)


"They don't allow Bosnianhood but they offered Muslimhood. We shall accept their offer, although the name is wrong, but with it will start the process."
In discussion with Josip Broz Tito in 1971 about constitutional changes.
Hamdija Pozderac

[Bosnjakinja]

Bosnia is not bosniak land by law.
It is a land of 3 nations and bosniaks among them by BiH consitution.
You should act according to that.

Pay a little attention to what I'm writing, moron. I didn't say that Bosnia isn't the land of Croats, I'm saying that if he considers Bosnia his land then he should LIVE THERE and not somewhere else.

[Bosnjakinja]

And someone said the communist party was led by Bosniaks - LOL, Serbs were always the biggest nation in all communist organiations, from army to party. Statistics say so aswell.

[iNird]

Bosnia is not bosniak land by law.
It is a land of 3 nations and bosniaks among them by BiH consitution.
You should act according to that.

Nah the Bosniak logic goes as follow

Serbs have Serbia
Croats have Croatia

Therefore, Bosniaks have Bosnia.

:)

[Twistedmind]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/sr/9/97/Matej_ninoslav.JPG

Why Bosnian ban from XIII century mentions just Serbs as his subjects?


And someone said the communist party was led by Bosniaks - LOL, Serbs were always the biggest nation in all communist organiations, from army to party. Statistics say so aswell.

Džemal Bijedić? Hamdija Pozderac? Serbs? Lol.

[Rastko]

Pay a little attention to what I'm writing, moron. I didn't say that Bosnia isn't the land of Croats, I'm saying that if he considers Bosnia his land then he should LIVE THERE and not somewhere else.

Then Luna has no right to write about BiH topics like majority of your kind.

[Hurrem sultana]

Nah the Bosniak logic goes as follow

Serbs have Serbia
Croats have Croatia

Therefore, Bosniaks have Bosnia.

:)

You are just pathethic in all this,are you trying to gain sympathies for albanians on our expence ? lol

[SILNI]

Btw , this thread have tittle Bosniaks and bosnian serbs , so I ask where are bosnian croats
In past there were even more croats than "bosniaks" in bosnia , due birth rates that changed but it say a lot how little historical rights bosniaks have in bosnia among other things.

During WW2 bosniak elite proclaimed that muslims in bosnia are part of Croatian nation.
It say a lot about those people.

[Bosnjakinja]

Then Luna has no right to write about BiH topics like majority of your kind.

She has never told anyone to get out of Bosnia like you do.

Do you even see how stupid that is? That a person who doesn't even live in Bosnia tells people who can and can't stay?

Idiotic.

[Bosnjakinja]

You are just pathethic in all this,are you trying to gain sympathies for albanians on our expence ? lol

Ignorisi debile.

[Hurrem sultana]

She has never told anyone to get out of Bosnia like you do.

Do you even see how stupid that is? That a person who doesn't even live in Bosnia tells people who can and can't stay?

Idiotic.

Balavac od 17 godina,,nema pojma o zivotu.ne zna da ih je najvise zafrkao njihov Tudzman,pa ih sad na popisu nece biti ni 12%

[Hurrem sultana]

Ignorisi debile.


Debil i po vala

[Rastko]

Btw , this thread have tittle Bosniaks and bosnian serbs , so I ask where are bosnian croats
In past there were even more croats than "bosniaks" in bosnia , due birth rates that changed but it say a lot how little historical rights bosniaks have in bosnia among other things.

During WW2 bosniak elite proclaimed that muslims in bosnia are part of Croatian nation.
It say a lot about those people.

Yes,what a mistake by retard from medressa-Pavelic.

And during the Commie times they licked Tito's anus ,nowadays it's Erdogan and Wahabis.

Sunflowers in human form.

[SILNI]

Yes of course I know that, and this is precisely why I opened this thread - to find out more about it.

What makes a Bosniak? If you guys say they don't really exist as an ethnicity, then what are they? Alien invaders?

They are new born nation , nothing allien about it.
Before they were turks. Their main religious leader said "we are turks" , so it remained until these days.

I have nothing against them to be a nation , but I am against their wrongdoings against christian nations in bosnia.

My ancestry is from eastern bosnia (among others) so I have a right to talk here maybe more than many others.

[iNird]

You are just pathethic in all this,are you trying to gain sympathies for albanians on our expence ? lol

Not my fault Bosniaks are Serbs in denial that do not have their own country.


Debil i po vala

BRB as I use Serbian google translate.

[Rastko]

Balavac od 17 godina,,nema pojma o zivotu.ne zna da ih je najvise zafrkao njihov Tudzman,pa ih sad na popisu nece biti ni 12%

1. Nemam 17.

2. Uvjeren sam da znam o zivotu vise od mnogih ovdje,pogotovo ako si ti i tebi slicni vertikale.

[Bosnjakinja]

Balavac od 17 godina,,nema pojma o zivotu.ne zna da ih je najvise zafrkao njihov Tudzman,pa ih sad na popisu nece biti ni 12%

Pa da bar zivi ovdje onda bi ga nekako i razumjea. Ali ovako da se iz jebene Hrvatske qrci kako je BiH njegova zemlja i da mi koji zivimo tu moramo negdje ici...ma fuj.

[Mraz]

Croats from Bosnia...Destroying their own cities for the glory of a foreign nation...lol

[SILNI]

Pay a little attention to what I'm writing, moron. I didn't say that Bosnia isn't the land of Croats, I'm saying that if he considers Bosnia his land then he should LIVE THERE and not somewhere else.
You should say it to your compatriots here which do not live in bosnia either.

What about this moron insult? You don't like when somebody point out that by your constitution bosnia is not your land but 3 nations.
You used to lie people around how serbs and croats came in bosnia in 1990s , not you but other bosniaks morons indeed.

[Loki]

Before they were turks.

Turks living there assimilated into their group, yes, but that doesn't mean all of them were Turks - likely a smaller minority.

[Rastko]

Pa da bar zivi ovdje onda bi ga nekako i razumjea. Ali ovako da se iz jebene Hrvatske qrci kako je BiH njegova zemlja i da mi koji zivimo tu moramo negdje ici...ma fuj.

Cekaj,ti se referiras na onaj GTFO troll post?

Ne mislim vas tjerat...samo neka vas tamo u vasem trokutu od mahale,dalje ne mrdajte.Jes da vonja puno na loj,al jebiga i na gore se covjek navikne.

[Hurrem sultana]

Turks living there assimilated into their group, yes, but that doesn't mean all of them were Turks - likely a smaller minority.

turci rather meant muslims in todays form,or more precisely ottomans,all muslims were ottomans

[SILNI]

Balavac od 17 godina,,nema pojma o zivotu.ne zna da ih je najvise zafrkao njihov Tudzman,pa ih sad na popisu nece biti ni 12%

Tudzman vas i jeste zbio u 22 % teritorije u Dejtonu.

[Twistedmind]

Одо ја одавдје, пошто се по старом обичају износе увреде од једних људи на рачун других. Јебем ти дискусију, да опростите моје даме, или можда не, пошто по некима ето причамо различитим језицима.

[Szegedist]

Only God knows how Yugoslavia could have existed 1920-1941 , 1943–1992. Same language, similar culture, but hate each others guts. Just look at the discussion taking place lol.

[Bosnjakinja]

You should say it to your compatriots here which do not live in bosnia either.

What about this moron insult? You don't like when somebody point out that by your constitution bosnia is not your land but 3 nations.
You used to lie people around how serbs and croats came in bosnia in 1990s , not you but other bosniaks morons indeed.

Stop putting words into my mouth, moron.

[SILNI]

Only God knows how Yugoslavia could have existed 1920-1941 , 1943–1992. Same language, similar culture, but hate each others guts. Just look at the discussion taking place lol.

Nothing "same" in yugoslavia.
It always was forced solution. First by "serb" royal family and then by communist dictatorship.

[Bosnjakinja]

Tudzman vas i jeste zbio u 22 % teritorije u Dejtonu.

A vas je skroz protjerao iz Hrvatske.

Pa?

[Sorab]

This is an extract from Catholic Encyclopedia

Population

According to the census of 22 April 1895, Bosnia has 1,361,868 inhabitants and Herzegovina 229,168, giving a total population of 1,591,036. The number of persons to the square mile is small (about 80), less than that in any of the other Austrian crown provinces excepting Salzburg (about 70). This average does not vary much in the six districts (five in Bosnia, one in Herzegovina). The number of persons to the square mile in these districts is as follows: Doljna Tuzla, 106; Banjaluka, 96; Bihac, 91; Serajevo, 73, Mostar (Herzegovina), 65, Travnik, 62. There are 5,388 settlements, of which only 11 have more than 5,000 inhabitants, while 4,689 contain less 500 persons. Excluding some 30,000 Albanians living in the south-east, the Jews who emigrated in earlier times from Spain, a few Osmanli Turks, the merchants, officials. and Austrian troops, the rest of the population (about 98 per cent) belong to the southern Slavonic people, the Serbs. Although one in race, the people form in religious beliefs three sharply separated divisions: the Mohammedans, about 550,000 persons (35 per cent), Greek Schismatics, about 674,000 persons (43 per cent), and Catholics, about 334,000 persons (21.3 per cent). The last mentioned are chiefly peasants. The Mohammedans form the mass of the population in the region called the Krajina in the north-west, in the district of Serajevo and in the south-eastern part of the territory; the Greek Schismatics preponderate in the district of Banjaluka. The Catholics of the Latin Rite exceed the other two denominations only in the district of Travnik and in northern Herzegovina. There are in addition 8,000 Jews and 4,000 Protestants. Divided according to occupation 85 per cent of the population are farmers or wine-cultivators (1,385,291). There are 5,833 large estates, the owners of which are chiefly Mohammedans, 88,970 cultivators of land not their own (kmeten), 88,867 free peasants who own the land they till, and 22,625 peasants who own farming-land and also cultivate the land of others. The population of the towns is small.
rest of the text here
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02694a.htm

[SILNI]

Stop putting words into my mouth, moron.

Where did you learn this ladylike behaviour of your? in mosque?
Something I said must hurt you. I know what is in islamic bosniak wet dreams , so that's why. :D

[Loki]

From the Wikipedia article on Bosniaks:

Bosniaks are linguistically defined as a South Slavic people. Nonetheless, it has been proposed, based on genetic signatures, that their roots also date back to pre-Slavic inhabitants of the Dinaric region, effectively predating many modern European homogenous ethnic groups.

Many features of the Bosniaks' cultural and linguistic origins can be traced back to the Migration Period of the Early Middle Ages. It was then that the Early Slavs, a people from northeastern Europe, colonized the Eastern Roman Empire with their Avar allies in turn assimilating pre-Slavic peoples generically known as the Illyrians in the regions which now comprise modern-day Bosnia and Herzegovina. The name Bosnia - derived from the river Bosna - is itself probably of Illyrian origin: Bosona (Bosnian: Bosna) and a testament to the Illyrian heritage of the region.

^^ Quite Illyrian, it seems. I think I've read that before about Bosniaks. Watch out Albanians! ;)

[Bosnjakinja]

Where did you learn this ladylike behaviour of your? in mosque?
Something I said must hurt you. I know what is in islamic bosniak wet dreams , so that's why. :D

Yes, you know me too well.

Now please stop trolling the thread :)

[Rastko]

It would be easier in these lands if there wasn't so much generated hate between us Croats and Serbs.Rest minor problems like Muslims would be solved easily.

Krst je križ,braco upamtite to!

[SILNI]

A vas je skroz protjerao iz Hrvatske.

Pa?
Pola je protjerao.
Nego kakve to veze ima. Ima li sto jadnije nego muslimanka i to zatucana.

[Lena]

Where did you learn this ladylike behaviour of your? in mosque?


Pay attn to what twisted said in his last post; he's wise individual :)

[Dacul]

Serbo-croatian is how the language is called.
It is clearly stated that serbian,croatian and bosniak are different dialects of the same language.
But these people have a great talent to get divided between them and is not religion to blame for this,but this how they are.
For example Montenegro and Serbia are having the same religion,same language but formed 2 different states.
I would not be amazed at all if most bosniaks changed religion to Islam just to be different from croatians and serbs,lol.
So in Romania is same,we have people calling themselves ardeleni,people calling themselves moldoveni etc but is same state.
In Germany,are not different dialects and people calling themselves after the region in which they are?
But is same state.
However,Yugoslavia will not work because how these people are,if a leader will be serb,he will get criticized by bosniaks,montenegrins and croats,if a leader will be bosniak he will get criticized by croats,serbs and montenegrins and so on.

[Cokolino]

A discussion with Serbian nationalists? really? Just ignore the hating trols, they find something else to hate eventually :)
Lol @ Loki, what a thread...you can clearly see there are no common denominators anymore. Never will be again.

[Bosnjakinja]

A discussion with Serbian nationalists? really? Just ignore the hating trols, they find something else to hate eventually :)
Lol @ Loki, what a thread...you can clearly see there are no common denominators anymore. Never will be again.

I will never visit a thread about origins of Serbs in the Serbian forum.

And they are all over ours. It's always like that.

[SILNI]

^^ Quite Illyrian, it seems. I think I've read that before about Bosniaks. Watch out Albanians! ;)
So can we now stop calling them slavs , please? :cool:

[SILNI]

It would be easier in these lands if there wasn't so much generated hate between us Croats and Serbs.Rest minor problems like Muslims would be solved easily.

Krst je križ,braco upamtite to!
If there is serb-croat coalition (even weak one) there would no be bosniak issue any more.

[Hurrem sultana]

So can we now stop calling them slavs , please? :cool:

You think we care? slavs or not slavs,we only care about Bosnia

[Cokolino]

If there is serb-croat coalition (even weak one) there would no be bosniak issue any more.

A final solution? Interesting, do tell more please.

How many death camps this time? Ellaborate your solution to the issue in more detail.

[SILNI]

You think we care? slavs or not slavs,we only care about Bosnia
You care , if it is for your propaganda you will be slavs , turks or whatever.
Don't care to much for bosnia though , when Nato goes , it will collapse from within.

[Sisak]

The first official dictionary in the Bosnian language was printed in the early 1630s, while the first dictionary in Serbian was printed only in the mid-19th century. Written evidence and records point to the Bosnian language being the official language of the country since at least the Kingdom of Bosnia, as further corroborated by the declaration of the Charter of Ban Kulin, one of the oldest written state documents in the Balkans and one of the oldest to be written in Bosančica.
ban Kulin was of Croatian origins.

[Loki]

Lol @ Loki, what a thread...you can clearly see there are no common denominators anymore. Never will be again.

My curiosity has been aroused, and there is nothing better than a good debate :)

[SILNI]

A final solution? Interesting, do tell more please.

How many death camps this time? Ellaborate your solution to the issue in more detail.

Spare me you bosniak pathetic
You know it won't work on me :tongue
As I said my ancestry is from eastern bosnia (hercegovina) , I know you too well.

[Bosnjakinja]

Spare me you bosniak pathetic
You know it won't work on me :tongue
As I said my ancestry is from eastern bosnia , I know you to well.

So say what you mean for once in your miserable life and stop pussyfooting around it.

[Szegedist]

Nothing "same" in yugoslavia.
It always was forced solution. First by "serb" royal family and then by communist dictatorship.

Did Croatia not have a choice in 1920? Were the Partisans not supported by the population? Is Karadore family not Serbian?

[Loki]

If there is serb-croat coalition (even weak one) there would no be bosniak issue any more.

I.e. a coalition to destroy them? :)

[Cokolino]

I will never visit a thread about origins of Serbs in the Serbian forum.

And they are all over ours. It's always like that.

More so than in Kosovo subforum I`m sure...I`ve seen it before, it`s like watching rabid dogs...Ugly indeed, but if they like to hate
let them, hate is always selfdestructing. I won`t waste more time on them, good night dear Bosnjakinja :)

[Arbërori]

^^ Quite Illyrian, it seems. I think I've read that before about Bosniaks. Watch out Albanians! ;)

I will quote the ever cute Linet, something along the lines; it's baseless to claim them, when their children are still alive today. :P Anyways, for me Bosniaks are a distinct nation & have been so for quite some time, so...

[Bosnjakinja]

More so than in Kosovo subforum I`m sure...I`ve seen it before, it`s like watching rabid dogs...Ugly indeed, but if they like to hate
let them, hate is always selfdestructing. I won`t waste more time on them, good night dear Bosnjakinja :)

I only hate people like SILNI because they leave me no choice.

Rastko is just a clown, a tool, irrelevant. He doesn't even live in Bosnia (and I doubt he live in Croatia aswell).

Good night...

[Rastko]

So say what you mean for once in your miserable life and stop pussyfooting around it.

Milena,I like you like all girls.

But! Hm,what kind of behaviour is this?

Aside our disputes from the past and the numbers of blind right nationalist in our nations,somehow when it comes to down to earth and personal relations Serbs are my best internet "friends".

That says a lot to me.

[Lena]

...

Thread title- Bosniaks and Bosnian Serbs

Thank you all for noticing...

@ SILNI imas poruku.

[SILNI]

I.e. a coalition to destroy them? :)
Whatever they done to us. And bear in mind that they had no actual power but menage to do big crimes.
I can only imagine on what they are capable if had bigger influence.

[SILNI]

So say what you mean for once in your miserable life and stop pussyfooting around it.

Good :biggrin: try. As I said I know you too well.

[Sisak]

I don't believe that they wanted become muslims. At the same time when Croatian king Kulin "supported" Bosnian Muslims he was preparing an army for the fight and Dalmatian dogs in Djakovo for battle with Ottoman army. Whay would one christian king do that?

[SILNI]

I only hate people like SILNI
I won't lose much sleep over it.

[Loki]

19 guests to this thread, lol. Where do they come from? :p

[SILNI]

19 guests to this thread, lol. Where do they come from? :p
Balkan diaspora :)

[SILNI]

Did Croatia not have a choice in 1920? Were the Partisans not supported by the population? Is Karadore family not Serbian?
No they had no a choice. Our King forced that artificial state. He made a mistake and that turned against his own people.

[Loki]

Balkan diaspora :)

I think all you lovely people should live in peace and harmony :)

[dado]

just like u mentioned in your introduction post....bosnian identity exists for more than 1000 years

our country never changed its name unlike lets say serbia who had various names in early stages

the other interesting stuff are borders of bosnia which are preety much the same since 15 th century...neither serbia nor croatia have that long continuity...especialy serbia...it's borders changed dramaticly through out history...but what is most important that border never crossed river drina...drina is natural border between bosnia and serbia....the same goes for croatia...croatian territory never crossed river sava,una and mountain dinara

on the other hand bosnia did spread its teritory on neighboring countries both as independent medieval kingdom and during ottoman empire

[Bosnjakinja]

19 guests to this thread, lol. Where do they come from? :p

Since the shitstorm has died out I will try to answer your question.

Bosniaks and Serbs are similar in genetics and everything (just like Serbs and Croats are) but they are not the same people. I already said on another forum that many, many Serbs in Bosnia descend from Vlachs that were serbified, but that is considered an insult among them today because they are such great pan slavists that they cant stand that many of them dont have Slavic origins.

Now, after the Ottomans pulled out, some Serb muslims from Serbia migrated to Bosnia, and those are the Bosniaks that can be said to have Serbian origin. Alija Izetbegovic has family from Belgrade for instance.

[Loki]

the other interesting stuff are borders of bosnia which are preety much the samesince 15 th century...

This is true, yes.

[SILNI]

Were the Partisans not supported by the population? Is Karadore family not Serbian?
There were no partisans back in 1920s. Anyway even latter , short before ww2 partisans naver had bigger influence within today croatian borders. Neither they had significant presence there. Only during WW2 certain amount of serbs in croatia joined partisan units.

Anyway after WW1 and creation of yugoslavia there was yugo royal army , and if by this "Karadore" you imply Karadjordjevic , you are right as I said it is serbian royal family.

[SILNI]

I think all you lovely people should live in peace and harmony :)
Loki , sorry to say this to you , but there is no such things , unfortunately.

[Loki]

I already said on another forum that many, many Serbs in Bosnia descend from Vlachs that were serbified, but that is considered an insult among them today because they are such great pan slavists that they cant stand that many of them dont have Slavic origins.


You mean many of those in Republika Srpska?

[Permafrost]

No they had no a choice. Our King forced that artificial state. He made a mistake and that turned against his own people.

Wait, seriously? I thought Slovenians and Croats joined by their own free choice.

[Loki]

Loki , sorry to say this to you , but there is no such things , unfortunately.

There won't be if nobody tried :) Give peace a chance. Make love not war :thumb001:

[Bosnjakinja]

You mean many of those in Republika Srpska?

Yes, in the Krajina area of Bosnia (large parts of it today lays in Republika Srpska), Turks placed Orthodox Vlachs to defend the borders against the Austrohungarians. These Vlachs assimilated because of their religion into the Serbian national identity. There are also Croats and Bosniaks who have Vlach ancestors, but very very little compared to Serbs, since they both were Orthodox...

[dado]

as far as bosnian language...its true there are not much differences between bosnian serb and croatian...even though Lena often asks me for translation of some of bosnian words ;)


but the only reason why differences arent bigger is because they used bosnian standard language

i marked on this map

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=29602&d=1362609486


so as u can se both serbs and croats took for their standard language, a language that is spoken in bosnia


and as far as u go from bosnian borders this standard language fades...for example croats in zagora speak very strange language that is complitely un undrrstandable for us bosnians...the situation is same in dalmatia,but we do understand them somewaht better


the same goes for serbia...serbs along bulgarian border spek something that is closeer to bulgarian than serbia...

[SILNI]

Wait, seriously? I thought Slovenians and Croats joined by their own free choice.
Hmmm , some did. But I don't think majority wanted it.
There was no stronger opposition though but there was a lot of people which wasn't so thrilled either.
Oficialy they joined by free will , but lets face it , do ultimate free will exist at all?
I am sure Slovenians (for example) even then would decide for independent state (not if have the choice) but if that would be convinient for them in that moment.

You see serbs , got out from WW1 as victors so it wasn't bad idea for slovenians to join (in the eyes of international community) but if you ask me are croats and slovenians was honest about joining - I must say no. (IMO)

Creation of yugoslavia was the biggest mistake regarding serb national interests but our King didn't care about that unfortunately.

[SILNI]

croats in zagora speak very strange language that is complitely un undrrstandable for us bosnians...the situation is same in dalmatia,but we do understand them somewaht better


the same goes for serbia...serbs along bulgarian border spek something that is closeer to bulgarian than serbia...
Rubbish
We all understand each other very well.
Funny thing is that square you pointed out on map is exactly where one strain of my family had origins , and I must tell you we have nothing nether with bosniak "language" neither with bosniak "indentity"

[Lena]

as far as bosnian language...its true there are not much differences between bosnian serb and croatian...even though Lena often asks me for translation of some of bosnian words ;)


For the sake of truth, pls, most, if not all words I asked about were of a Turkish origin or tied to your religion.

Now if you'll excuse me, but I don't wish to participate on this thread. Thanks for understanding Dado.

[SILNI]

There won't be if nobody tried :) Give peace a chance. Make love not war :thumb001:
It is mission impossible in land with 40 % islamic presence. And it's our neighbor.
We consider half of Bosnia our land (RS)

[dado]

Rubbish
We all understand each other very well.
Funny thing is that square you pointed out on map is exactly where one strain of my family had origins , and I must tell you we have nothing nether with bosniak "language" neither with bosniak "indentity"


so do i...all bosnian speak in this way...but we cant say the same for serbs...only 20 percents of serbs speak like that...

[Loki]

It is mission impossible in land with 40 % islamic presence. And it's our neighbor.
We consider half of Bosnia our land (RS)

Perhaps more secularism and less religion is the answer (that goes to both parties). Religion seems to be a major factor in Balkan problems.

[dado]

For the sake of truth, pls, most, if not all words I asked about were of a Turkish origin or tied to your religion.

Now if you'll excuse me, but I don't wish to participate on this thread. Thanks for understanding Dado.

for the sake of truth those words are our standard language and we understand them perfectly...and we dont need translator like u do...lucky u to have me as your personal translator for bosnian

[Hurrem sultana]

It is mission impossible in land with 40 % islamic presence. And it's our neighbor.
We consider half of Bosnia our land (RS)

rather 50-52%

yes i consider Australia mine but it does not help me :D

[Permafrost]

Hmmm , some did. But I don't think majority wanted it.
There was no stronger opposition though but there was a lot of people which wasn't so thrilled either.
Oficialy they joined by free will , but lets face it , do ultimate free will exist at all?
I am sure Slovenians (for example) even then would decide for independent state (not if have the choice) but if that would be convinient for them in that moment.

You see serbs , got out from WW1 as victors so it wasn't bad idea for slovenians to join (in the eyes of international community) but if you ask me are croats and slovenians was honest about joining - I must say no. (IMO)

Creation of yugoslavia was the biggest mistake regarding serb national interests but our King didn't care about that unfortunately.

Nonetheless, there was a considerable contingent of Slovenian nationalists who supported Serbia, during both WWI (Sokol) & WWII (http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenski_%C4%8Detniki).

Then again, there were at least as many such nationalists who opposed the Kingdom and Monarch, so I agree that loyalties and opinions were pretty much divided.

[Szegedist]

Wait, seriously? I thought Slovenians and Croats joined by their own free choice.

If I am not mistaken, Pan-Slavism, including Ilyrianism (Yugoism, Southslavism,whatever you want to call it ) was rampant in those days, and an independent Slovenia and independent Croatia-Slavonia would have been weak to defend if Austria or Hungary tried to annex it, and it was also necessary to create a big and strong Entente anti Hungarian and anti Austrian Entente puppet state. So it seems it was the fault of both internal and external forces.

Prekumujre also opted to go to Yugoslavia (thanks to Jew commie Kun/Cohen), even though it was originally supposed to be autonomous area in Hungary.

[SILNI]

Perhaps more secularism and less religion is the answer (that goes to both parties). Religion seems to be a major factor in Balkan problems.
Strange you mentioned it.
In fact I had arguments with Serbs which claim that in case that we are more open for other religions we could more easily to stop anti-serb assimilation process. For example Serbs which took islamic faith automaticaly stopped to be serbs because they knew that as muslims they won't be accepted any more within our nation.

So some serbs tell me this anti-serb assimilation could be stopped back then if we had more open policy toward other religions.
My position is that this wouldn't be the case.

Changing faith do not led toward differencies , BUT mere newly emerged differencies led toward change of faith and beliefs. Understand?
Those people which took islamic faith lost their moral compass long before that , so we can not blame neither islam neither Christianity for the conflict which followed after that.
Only converts are to blame and not their original (former) nations.

[SILNI]

for the sake of truth those words are our standard language and we understand them perfectly...and we dont need translator like u do...lucky u to have me as your personal translator for bosnian

What words? We understand all words "bosniaks" use today.
We are playing smart again , do we?

[Hurrem sultana]

What words? We understand all words "bosniaks" use today.
We are playing smart again , do we?

plaho se ti izmuhabeti aksamile :D

[Onur]

Turks living there assimilated into their group, yes, but that doesn't mean all of them were Turks - likely a smaller minority.
There was no Turkish civilian settlements in Bosnia but there was a large military presence due to Bosnia being the outpost of the empire, close to Hapsburg empire. However large it is, it was ofc insignificant to the total population of the territory.

Thats why all the Bosniaks who has Turkish surnames, carries a surname with Turkish military terminology. Tough, their turkishness is still questionable and if there is any, it should be from earlier times, maybe centuries ago. I can easily say that a modern Greek or Bulgarian has more turkish blood than a Bosnian today.



Did Croatia not have a choice in 1920? Were the Partisans not supported by the population?
All the prominent Croat leaders who opposed to the Yugoslavia idea has been assassinated by the Serbian militia back then. So, they have been forced to the Yugo idea against their will. This was also supported by the west because they wanted to create a barrier against Italian expansionism and prevent a possible revival of Austro-Hungrian empire after WW-1.

Italians was strictly against the Yugo idea and they were desiring to get Dalmatia by using catholic Croats as a proxy in the region. The western world also wanted to make sure that Austro-Hungarian empire never rise up again, so they needed an entity who can stop both Italians and Germans back then. They created the Yugo state and when they resolved the Italian and German question after WW-2, there was no need for the Yugo state anymore because it fulfilled it`s purpose and became null.

[SILNI]

If I am not mistaken, Pan-Slavism, including Ilyrianism (Yugoism, Southslavism,whatever you want to call it ) was rampant in those days, and an independent Slovenia and independent Croatia-Slavonia would have been weak to defend if Austria or Hungary tried to annex it, and it was also necessary to create a big and strong Entente anti Hungarian and anti Austrian Entente puppet state. So it seems it was the fault of both internal and external forces.
Don't link everything with Hungarian presence.
Indeed among other things for creation of Yugoslavia is used anti-hungarian sentiment (and I must say that was justifiable one back then) but yugoslav idea existed before Hungary become very big threat toward slavic nations , mostly in 19th century.
So funnily enough , your aggressive policy toward Slavs speeded up a little creation of the state.

[SILNI]

plaho se ti izmuhabeti aksamile :D

Greote.

[dado]

What words? We understand all words "bosniaks" use today.
We are playing smart again , do we?

i dont want to talk about it...she just forbidden me to mention her and i intend to do so

u r bosnian so u shouldnt have troubles understanding it...but serbians do

[Methmatician]

Damn you, Loki. You've opened pandora's box :D And those who are trying to prove that Bosnian is a distinct language form Serbian and Croatian, just stop. They're the same, with regional differences.

[SILNI]

u r bosnian so u shouldnt have troubles understanding it...but serbians do
I am not a bosnian , I said that one my family strain originate from that region in Bosnia you pointed out in your post.
My ancestry is eastern bosnia , herzegovina and letter through central to northern montnegro.

[dado]

I am not a bosnian , I said that one my family strain originate from that region in Bosnia you pointed out in your post.
My ancestry is eastern bosnia , herzegovina and letter through central to northern montnegro.

pa onda bi i ti blejao ko tele na neke naše riječi

[Veneda]

There won't be if nobody tried :) Give peace a chance. Make love not war :thumb001:


It is mission impossible in land with 40 % islamic presence. And it's our neighbor.
We consider half of Bosnia our land (RS)

We were a great power before foreign religions divided us. Mission is possible if we start thinking in different categories. We have more in common than others can realise.

[Hurrem sultana]

We were a great power before foreign religions divided us. Mission is possible if we start thinking in different categories. We have more in common than others can realise.


Lol the panslavic thing is not our cup of tea

[Veneda]

Lol the panslavic thing is not our cup of tea

That's why you stay unaware as before. No wonder.

[Hurrem sultana]

That's why you stay unaware as before. No wonder.

You should come to Balkan,no one cares really,its not big at all

[Loki]

Here's an interesting read from Coon on the region:

http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-XII12.htm

Among the Yugoslavs, religion as well as language forms a source of division; the Croats and Slovenes are Catholics, the Serbs are mostly Greek Orthodox. Under the term Serb are included, however, such diverse peoples as the Serbs Proper, the Montenegrins, the Bosnians, the Herzegovinians, and the Dalmatians. The Bosnians and Herzegovinians include large minorities of Moslems and Catholics, and the latter are particularly numerous in Dalmatia.

Neither language nor religion, however, nor general type of civilization, has much bearing on the problem of race in Yugoslavia, since within this kingdom lies the concentration point of the entire Dinaric racial zone ...

---

Bosnia consists of the six provinces, Bihac, Banjaluka, Tuzla, Travnik, Sarajevo, and Mostar, which lie between western Croatia, Dalmatia, Montenegro, and the Slavonian plain. The southernmost province, Mostar, includes, the territory known as Herzegovina, which lies nearest to Montenegro. The Bosnians serve racially as an approach to the nucleus of Dinaric giantism in Montenegro.122 Tuzla, in the northeast, has a mean stature of 171 cm.; Bihac and Banjaluca, in the northwest, of 172 cm.; in Travnik and parts of Mostar it rises to 173 cm., in Sarajevo to 174 cm., and in Herzegovina to 175-176 cm., approaching the Montenegrin level. The mean cephalic index of the Bosnians is over 85; this varies by religions, with the Catholics the most brachycephalic (86), and the Moslems the least. The Catholics are likewise the tallest and the lightest skinned; being the oldest population in the region in point of conversion, and the least affected by outside influences, the Catholic element preserves both a pre-Slavic and a pre-Turkish racial configuration more completely than do the partisans of Orthodoxy or Islam.

In hair and eye color the Bosnians are intermediate between Croatians and Serbs; they are darkest in the northeast, and fairest in the regions nearest Montenegro.

[Loki]

That's why you stay unaware as before. No wonder.

Never underestimate the Illyrian blood :)

[Veneda]

You should come to Balkan,no one cares really,its not big at all

Thanks for invitation. The wisdom and consciousness are always born in the pain.

[Hurrem sultana]

Never underestimate the Illyrian blood :)

Most bosniaks today believe in this theory,a mix between illyrian and slavic

[dado]

We were a great power before foreign religions divided us. Mission is possible if we start thinking in different categories. We have more in common than others can realise.

in case of bosnian muslims...language is the only thing i can think of that connects us to other slavs... and since i speak english and some spanish and italian i feel the same connection towards them

[Loki]

Most bosniaks today believe in this theory,a mix between illyrian and slavic

It's most likely the truth.

[Veneda]

in case of bosnian muslims...language is the only thing i can think of that connects us to other slavs... and since i speak english and some spanish and italian i feel the same connection towards them
Language is a factor which belongs to spiritual sphere, at least in the case of Slavs. If you want to deny such value so easily for the benefit of foreign languages, it's your choice.

[dado]

Language is a factor which belongs to spiritual sphere, at least in the case of Slavs. If you want to deny such value so easily for the benefit of foreign languages, it's your choice.

no..i agree it is strong connection,but it is pretty much the only one

[Veneda]

no..i agree it is strong connection,but it is pretty much the only one

I presume you are speaking about Bosnian language as the only one... What are further conclusions? Is it spiritually connected with your faith?

[dado]

I presume you are speaking about Bosnian language as the only one... What are further conclusions? Is it spiritually connected with your faith?
no..as u know muslims pray in arabic but we do make wishes in bosnian ;)..

e.g. oh god please help me pass this exam...

[Hurrem sultana]

what does it have to do with language and other countries? i hardly understand russians for example,and feel nothing towards them

[dado]

what does it have to do with language and other countries? i hardly understand russians for example,and feel nothing towards them

i wanted to say to u to remove slavic from your meta etnicity but u obviously already did it ;)

[Veneda]

no..as u know muslims pray in arabic but we do make wishes in bosnian ;)..

e.g. oh god please help me pass this exam...

Such trivia for a great heritage you possess... Heart is weeping...

[Mraz]

Where is VV by the way? He prays in Bosnian...and burns wooden idols :rolleyes:

[dado]

Where is VV by the way? He prays in Bosnian...and burn wooden idols :rolleyes:

he is prolly still ashemed to show up ;)

[Mraz]

he is prolly still ashemed to show up ;)

We should talk on his back like old grandmas do...I pick Hatidza as name... what's yours?

http://www.thescrib.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Peter-Griffin-family-guy-19628800-918-683.jpg

[dado]

and how about we just pretend not noticing his absence :cool:

[Veneda]

Where is VV by the way?

I wish to see him, too :D

[Hurrem sultana]

lol dado kako si ti dokazao da je on imao dva nicka??

[Veneda]

lol dado kako si ti dokazao da je on imao dva nicka??

Interesujące. Ale z ciebie lojalna patriotka :D

[dado]

@ luna
pa nije bilo teško ,,,nije bio baš uvjerljiv...svi su ga skužili

[SILNI]

what does it have to do with language and other countries? i hardly understand russians for example,and feel nothing towards them
yeah , but you feel very close toward turkey instead
I would like that everybody from your "nation" to be honest as you are and not to lick slavic boots on another forums

[Hevo]

Bosniaks are Serbs/Croats in denial.

[Hurrem sultana]

yeah , but you feel very close toward turkey instead
I would like that everybody from your "nation" to be honest as you are and not to lick slavic boots on another forums

we are all honest,i dont know anyone who says anything they dont feel to lick serbian boot,loool,,who are the serbs? the average bosniak does not even like a serbi

[SILNI]

we are all honest,i dont know anyone who says anything they dont feel to lick serbian boot,loool,,who are the serbs? the average bosniak does not even like a serbi

Slavic boots , not serbian , you heard it well the first time.

[Bosnjakinja]

Why is this thread a sticky? :rolleyes:

[morski]

My personal opinion on the matter is that Bosniaks are islamized Serbs and Croats. They speak basically the same language like the rest of the Western Balkan Slavs. Indeed they had a medieval state and their own religion and church (the only country which adopted bogomilism as an official state religion), but the territory where the Serbo-Croatian dilaect continuum is spoken saw at least 20- 30 medieval petty kingdoms and principalities ove rthe centuries. Does this mean we need some 20 more nations in the Western Balkans? Do we see hundreds of nations in what was once the Holy Roman Empire? Yugoslavia was not a bad solution(provided no one tried to dominate it and put down the others) for the Serbo-Croat speaking peoples of the Western Balkans (the Slovenes and Macedonians did not belong in it).

[SILNI]

There was a intentions in some elite circles to include bulgaria in yugoslav plans.

[morski]

There was a intentions in some elite circles to include bulgaria in yugoslav plans.

Luckily it didn't come to fruition.:)

[morski]

Now, I understand that my views on this matter might be seen by some as overly simplistic and, of course, I'm an outsider. The way I reason is probably influenced by how we here perceive national evolution or nation building if you want. Bulgarian nationalism has always been based primarily on language, religion played a secondary role, sure the majority of the Bulgarians are Orthodox, but we also have Catholics, Muslims and Protestants and all of them are considered an integral part of the nation. In contrast, Orthodoxy is a central part of Serbdom the same way Islam and Catholicism are central to what's Bosniak and Croat respectively. Dralos' thread "Yugos and their religion" might have been rather provocative but it did try to clear these thing up.:D

[SILNI]

I am afraid we are becoming more and more like West , hence religion have no such a strong impact among Serbs as it was before.
That process already happened in the West and we all can see how that turned out.

[Lemon Kush]

They are Serbs and Croatians who were Turkicized during Ottoman rule. Hence why they follow a Muslim religion as opposed to Chrisitian like other South Slavs. Other than that they are completely identical with Serbs and Croats. Even the language they speak is Serbo-Croatian. Around 40% of Bosnia is Serbs and another 15% Croats anyway.

[Methmatician]

Around 40% of Bosnia is Serbs and another 15% Croats anyway.

So what is the other 45%? Illyrian? :D

[Hurrem sultana]

who does that? ask your average bosniak what he thinks about russians,most likely nothing good

poland etc..we are neutral

[Bosnjakinja]

who does that? ask your average bosniak what he thinks about russians,most likely nothing good

poland etc..we are neutral

That's true. Most Bosniaks probably have a somewhat negative opinion about Russians and are pretty neutral to Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia etc.

On the other hand, Serbs tend to be very fond of "Mother Russia" and more neutral towards other Slavic countries. I see a lot more Serbs loving Greece and Romania for instance than Czech Republic and Slovakia...

[Loki]

I am afraid we are becoming more and more like West , hence religion have no such a strong impact among Serbs as it was before.


I think in ex-Yugo's context, it is positive - considering the plurality of religion in the region.

[Cokolino]

We were a great power before foreign religions divided us. Mission is possible if we start thinking in different categories. We have more in common than others can realise.

Czechs and Slovaks have alot in common, similar languages and religion...yet, they seperated when the chance was given...I know some Czechs and it seems they think of Slovaks as uncultured peasants. Some concidered the USSR as a panslavic country, but as we recall the Katyn massacre and the suppresion of the Prague uprisning, the brotherly love was missing even there. The Ukranians and Russians are also close in terms of culture and church, yet the anti-russian sentiment is very strong in Western Ukraine.
In Austria-Hungary, what could have been a strong slavic political force within the Empire was shattered when the southern slavs and the western slavs started to fight over politcal positions and allowed the Germans and Hungarians to play the "divide and conquer" tactic.
So, troughout history the slavic countries rather stood against eachother than with one another in most wars...
In that sense, political panslavism is dead...

I do agree with you on the other hand, there is a connection between the people. I currently reside in Norway, and the Polish population is large here, I feel more...at ease with them than with the usually reserved Norwegians. There is no problem taking a beer with a Pole or Czech, usually it is more than one beer with you lot. Also the history of Poland and Bosnia has similarities, as I frequently discussed with my Polish friends here, you being between the ortodox Russia and protestant Germany/Prussia, constantly suffering attacks from these empires. Also brutal ones.

But thinking panslavism will solve problems in the Balkans...I can`t see it, the war has left its mark on our generations and it is not something one can put aside that easily. Perhaps when it is as far gone into history as the first or second world war...but even then...Some historians argue that the war in Yugoslavia was a continuation of the WW 2, old scores being settled...some are settling scores after one defeat in the 14th century, we have a very long memory in the Balkans.
And if you cannot strike at the primary target, pick any target, just let the blood flow.

What we need is to achieve your mission, well, is some psychological help for all, but mostly a foreign rule. Now it is the EU, led by Germany, to keep the peace and all tribes in place. All the countries rushing into the Union, becoming esentially colonies to the mightier members. I frankly do not see we deserve any better. Our colonial future, that is what is going to unite us at the end. The Yugoslav Gastarbeiter.
_________________________________________

Now I`ve written much, can I have my teddy back? ;)

[Lena]

It's fascinating to see how some 'know' what we, Serbs think about others, what we wish or not (Kosovo included), what we eat, how we sleep etc.

Serbs are very close to Slovaks and it's not restricted to web solely, as most of us know already (?); in general we're very close to most Slavic countries, Russia included.

That's what I needed to say and now I'm really out of this thread.

[Bosnjakinja]

^^This thread is littered with Serbs talking about how Bosniaks "really" feel about this and that and then you get angry when someone says something else.

We're talking about what we see around us not about online things. And yes, panslavism in the mind of most Serbs where I live means Russia + Serbia + Montenegro (+ possibly Macedonia). I never hear talk of brother Slovaks or brother Czechs but always of brother Greeks.

[morski]

no..i agree it is strong connection,but it is pretty much the only one

More like Islam is the only thing driving you apart from the other West Blakan Slavs.

[Cokolino]

^^This thread is littered with Serbs talking about how Bosniaks "really" feel about this and that and then you get angry when someone says something else.

We're talking about what we see around us not about online things. And yes, panslavism in the mind of most Serbs where I live means Russia + Serbia + Montenegro (+ possibly Macedonia). I never hear talk of brother Slovaks or brother Czechs but always of brother Greeks.

Don`t forget brothers Romanians, Indians and everyone else that haven`t recognized Kosovo. Remember the Libyan war...The support for brother Gaddafi was quite large.

[SILNI]

Don`t forget brothers Romanians, Indians and everyone else that haven`t recognized Kosovo. Remember the Libyan war...The support for brother Gaddafi was quite large.
So?

[SILNI]

Around 40% of Bosnia is Serbs
49 % by territory and 35 % by population.

[Cokolino]

Just noticing the kissing of sandals, thats all.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Bosnian language??


Yes, the language which you speak right now.

Had you kept to your traditional Dalmatian dialects, you could understand people from Slavonia as much as a Slovenian can understand a Bulgarian.

[Sultan Suleiman]

I couldn't believe how much vlach and papist butthurt is there in this thread :lol:

[Hurrem sultana]

ooo vratio se vrhb ,,,jel tacno da te dado provalio? :D

[Sultan Suleiman]

ooo vratio se vrhb ,,,jel tacno da te dado provalio? :D

Dopuzao natrag kad je kučka otišla.

Da mi nije rekao MF i dalje nebi prilazio forumu...

Samo me intresuje tko joj se predstavljao kao ja ? Jer mi je njezin stari dolazio na vrata prije dvije sedmice o nekim njezinim pornićima i golim slikama koje sam "postavljao ovdje".

[Hurrem sultana]

Samo me intresuje tko joj se predstavljao kao ja ? Jer mi je njezin stari dolazio na vrata prije dvije sedmice o nekim njezinim pornićima i golim slikama koje sam "postavljao ovdje".


:O

[Sultan Suleiman]

:O

Imam jeben osjećaj da si ti ili dado ovo zasrali kad mi lik dolazi na vrata, nezna hoćel plakat ili me "klat" zato što sam "njezinoj kćerki uništio život"...

[Hurrem sultana]

hahahaha back off nemam ja s tim nista

[Sultan Suleiman]

hahahaha back off nemam ja s tim nista


Da te bolje neznam možda bi to popušio...

99% sam siguran da si to bila ti ili dado koji je tu retardaciju joj prosipao...

[Pontios]

Nemam pojma, I think Bosniaks su bili Srba ko su preko Ottoman trebali bit Muslimani.

[dado]

More like Islam is the only thing driving you apart from the other West Blakan Slavs.

wel religion preety much defines everything we are...how we celebrate new life,how we mourn the deceased,how we marry,our names,our customs and so on and so on

religion shapes us as individuals and as nation...language doesnt

[Loki]

I can see why it would be far harder to find atheists among Bosniaks than, for example, among Albanians. It is because the Islamic religion is part of Bosniak identity/identification.

[Žołnir]

By blood Bosniaks and Bosnian Serbs are same. Bout language all Štokavian speeches are more or less the same. Differances are just in pronountiations of some words like mleko, mljeko, etc. Differances between štokavian speeches are less big than between Slovene dialects for example.

[Den Pobedy]

In answer to some questions on the forming of Yugoslavia here are some points from "Creation of Yugoslavia" :

"The first idea of a state for all South Slavs emerged in the late 17th century, a product of visionary thinking of Croat writers and philosophers who believed that the only way for southern Slavs to regain lost freedom after centuries of occupation under the various empires would be to unite and free themselves from tyrannies and dictatorships"

"The Yugoslav Committee was formed on 30 April 1915 in London, and began to raise funds, especially among South Slavs living in the Americas. These Yugoslavs were Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes who identified themselves with the movement toward a single Yugoslav or South Slavic state. Exiled Yugoslavs living in North America and Britain were the primary supporters of the Yugoslav Committee. Because of their stature, the members of the Yugoslav Committee were able to make their views known to the Allied governments, which began to take them more seriously as the fate of Austria-Hungary became more uncertain."

"While the committee's basic aim was the unification of the Habsburg South Slav lands with the Kingdom of Serbia (which was independent at the time), its more immediate concern was to head off Italian claims on Habsburg territories in Istria and Dalmatia. In 1915, the Allies had lured the Italians into the war with a promise of substantial territorial gains in exchange. According to the secret Treaty of London, these included Istria and large parts of Dalmatia, which had mixed Italian and Slavic populations."

"In 1916 the Serbian Parliament in exile decided in favor of the creation of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia at a meeting inside the Municipal Theatre of Corfu. During June and July 1917, the Yugoslav Committee met with the Serbian government in Corfu and, on 20 July, a declaration that laid the foundation for the post-war state was issued. The preamble stated that the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes were "the same by blood, by language, by the feelings of their unity, by the continuity and integrity of the territory which they inhabit undividedly, and by the common vital interests of their national survival and manifold development of their moral and material life." The future state was to be called the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes and was to be a constitutional monarchy under the Karađorđević dynasty."

"As the Habsburg Empire dissolved, a pro-Entente National Council of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs took power in Zagreb on 6 October 1918. On 29 October, a Yugoslavist Croatian Sabor (parliament) declared independence and vested its sovereignty in the new State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs, and two days later it declared its wish to enter state of union with Serbia and Montenegro. Soon afterward on 5 November the National Council in Zagreb asked the Serbian military for help in controlling anarchy in Croatia. Because help did not arrive before the end of November, the National Council again asked the Serbian army for help because: "The population is in revolt. We have total anarchy and only the Serbian army can restore order".

"The Yugoslav Committee was given the task of representing the new state abroad. However, quarrels broke out immediately about the terms of the proposed union with Serbia. Svetozar Pribićević, a Croatian Serb, a leader of the Croatian-Serbian Coalition and vice-president of the state, wanted an immediate and unconditional union. Others (non-Serbs), who favoured a federal Yugoslavia, were more hesitant. The leader of opponents was Stjepan Radić who demanded the creation of a South Slavs Confederacy in which there would be three heads of state: the Serbian king, the Croatian ban, and the president of the Slovenian national council. In his thinking, the confederacy was to have only ministers for foreign affairs, for defense and for the distribution of food. This proposition was rejected by the National Council of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs as an example of separatism.The National Council, whose authority was in fact limited, feared that Serbia would simply annex the former Habsburg territories; on the other hand, the Italians were moving to take more territory than they had been allotted in London Pact.
Political opinion was divided, and Serbian ministers said that if Croats insisted on their own republic or a sort of independence, then Serbia would simply take areas inhabited by the Serbs and already controlled by the Serbian Army. After much debate and after Syrmia, which was under control of the Serbian army, declared secession, the National Council agreed to a unification with Serbia, although its declaration stated that the final organization of the state should be left to the future Constituent Assembly which would make final decisions only with a two-thirds majority"

"With the acquiescence of the National Council achieved, the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes was declared on 4 December 1918 in Belgrade."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_of_Yugoslavia

Basically what happened was Serbia was promised Bosnia and the Serb ethnic areas of other territories by the Entente Powers during WW1. Bosnia at that time was 43-48% Serbian,and remained so until the massacres of WW2 decreased the Serb ethnic population. And Serbia had always considered Bosnia as Serbian,to which the Entente agreed.The Slovene and Croatian leaders were in trouble.As part of an defeated enemy state ,Austria-Hungary,they believed if they didn't join a union with Serbia,which many approved of in the first place.That they would be cut-up by the other powers.Italy had designs on all of Dalmatia,and big chunks of Slovene territory. Those leaders figured that a union with Serbia was their only hope to keep their territories more or less intact. Serbia was very favorably viewed ,s the country that suffered the most in the Entente camp.They had lost 1/4 of their population in the war,and still kept fighting.They had the clot with the powers to save Croatia and Slovenia at the peace talks. Until the "Yugoslav Committee" came to them and asked for union. Serb leaders were only going to take the Serb populated areas of Austria-Hungary.But being offered all those lands instead,the Serbs agreed. There was actually a big dispute among Serb leaders over it. Some believed that only the Serb areas could be digested into their country.While the winning side in the argument thought that a union of South Slavs was the right way to go.After all they were all South Slav brothers,what could go wrong,right.

[Bosnjakinja]

I still dont get why this thread is a sticky..

[Hurrem sultana]

Haha

[Loki]

I still dont get why this thread is a sticky..

I'll unstick it :p

But really we need a Bosniak mod ... are you prepared for it? ;)

[Lucifer]

i think dado will soon be banned :eek:

[Loki]

i think dado will soon be banned :eek:

why?

[Lucifer]

why?


I'll unstick it :p

But really we need a Bosniak mod ... are you prepared for it? ;)

we all know that bosnjakinja and dado have a peaceful realtionship :D
between u should stock hack really....i saw inquiring mind is back.

[Loki]

we all know that bosnjakinja and dado have a peaceful realtionship :D

how about dado as a mod then? :P

[CrystalMaiden]

how about dado as a mod then? :P

Heavens no...

[Lucifer]

how about dado as a mod then? :P

i'm neutral, i don't have an opinion, i don't want problems :)

[Loki]

i'm neutral, i don't have an opinion, i don't want problems :)

There are no problems :) We're all a happy family :grouphug:

[CrystalMaiden]

There are no problems :) We're all a happy family :grouphug:

Happy...

[Hurrem sultana]

Geez,bosnian is back :D hahahaha

[Hurrem sultana]

this is becoming ridicilious with all the same avatar pictures haha :P

[CrystalMaiden]

this is becoming ridicilious with all the same avatar pictures haha :P

I know what are you talking about :D

[Kastrioti1443]

This forum is conquered by bosniaks.... :candycane1

[Loki]

I know what are you talking about :D

me too. but I'm the original bosnian!

[CrystalMaiden]

me too. but I'm the original bosnian!

I know you are, me.

[Loki]

I know you are, mine.

fixed

[Kastrioti1443]

fixed

bit.... she.... is a man!!!!! :grumpy:

[CrystalMaiden]

bit.... she.... is a man!!!!! :grumpy:

A bigger man than you.

[Kastrioti1443]

A bigger man than you.

So you admitted that you are a man?

[Loki]

So you admitted that you are a man?

:picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2::pica rd2:

[CrystalMaiden]

So you admitted that you are a man?

Before I came to this forum I had always thought that I was a woman, but with all the efforts made by this great forum of ours, I have not only discovered my true gender, but even stranger, my true identity.

I am the TRUE Vrhbosnian Vanguard, DEATH TO THE IMPOSTER!!!

[Hurrem sultana]

wtf :O

[CrystalMaiden]

wtf :O

I know, it will be strange at first, but in time you will love me like you have loved my imposter. The man which would deny me my rightful place under heavens, take heart my love, I will be there for you.

[Hurrem sultana]

where is jebivjetar

[CrystalMaiden]

where is jebivjetar

Jebivjetar is gone now, my love, don't worry. It will all be over soon.

[Hurrem sultana]

bosnian :O hgahahahahah

[CrystalMaiden]

bosnian :O hgahahahahah

Yes, my love?

[Lucifer]

wow this forum is crazy, i didn't know there was so many bosniaks here.

[Hurrem sultana]

chiko your picture is interesting lol

[Sultan Suleiman]

where is jebivjetar

Watching from shadows...

[Rastko]

What the fuck is going on here?

[Sultan Suleiman]

Jebla ti svoj kebab, ti nisi normalna :D

[Loki]

What the fuck is going on here?

oops moderator don't ban me please

[CrystalMaiden]

What the fuck is going on here?

I am expecting that my imposter is banned, moderator.

[CrystalMaiden]

Jebla ti svoj kebab, ti nisi normalna :D

Your vulgarities will not save you from your actions, fiend.

[Lucifer]

chiko your picture is interesting lol

thanks hurrem. i hope lunarose won't hack my profile, i contacted inquiring mind and i wait an answer. i'd be unconfortable if people think i'm a woman :(

[CrystalMaiden]

thanks hurrem. i hope lunarose won't hack my profile, i contacted inquiring mind and i wait an answer. i'd be unconfortable if people think i'm a woman :(

Everything will come into light my Indonesian sister.

[Loki]

thanks hurrem. i hope lunarose won't hack my profile, i contacted inquiring mind and i wait an answer. i'd be unconfortable if people think i'm a woman :(

Inquiring Mind = Gigolo

[Lucifer]

Inquiring Mind = Gigolo

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?6459-Inquiring-Mind

:confused:

lunarose hacked the admin too?

[CrystalMaiden]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?6459-Inquiring-Mind

:confused:

Hush now, it isn't your place to think.

[safinator]

:wtf:wtf:wtf:wtf

[CrystalMaiden]

:wtf:wtf:wtf:wtf

Wonderful sight for sore eyes.

My Aljbo kin assembled, it will be only matter of time before we deal with this identity stealing fiend once and for all.

[Rastko]

Loki=LunaRose
Vrhbosnian Vanguard=TheJourney

*Captain Obvious flies away*

[Sultan Suleiman]

Totalni raspad sistema :P

[Tomorr]

crazy slavs :lol: the hell is going on here!?

[CrystalMaiden]

Loki=LunaRose
Vrhbosnian Vanguard=TheJourney

*Captain Obvious flies away*

You made a bad choice by aligning with that identity thief...